Redistribution of Wealth

[willum14pb]

So today In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

So when the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.







I was talking to a friend 's little girl, and she said she wanted to be President some day.

Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, "If you were to be the President, what is the first thing you would do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people."

"Wow - what a worthy goal." I told her, "You don't
have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my
house and mow, pull weeds, and sweep my sidewalks and driveway, and I'll pay you $50.
Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy
hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food or a new house."

She thought that over for a few seconds 'cause
she's only 6. And while her Mom glared at me, she looked me straight in
the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the
work, and you can just pay him the $50?"

And I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her folks still aren't talking to me. Even children understand.



last one.


Father/daughter talk...

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college.
Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very
liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor
of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words
redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican,
a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had
participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that
her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what
he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes
on the rich and the need for more government programs. The
self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the
truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and
let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was
taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which
left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She
didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many
college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"

She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes
because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired
back, "That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really
hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work!
Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I
worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the
Republican party."

[seanrg1116]

Redistributioin of wealth is like Communism to some people it looks great on paper but when it happends everybody gets fucked

[Total_Blender]

Redistributioin of wealth is like Communism to some people it looks great on paper but when it happends everybody gets fucked

Communism is the reason our government is even functioning right now. If it weren't for China and the trillion dollars or so we now owe them we'd all be fucked.

[rrutter81]

Communism is the reason our government is even functioning right now. If it weren't for China and the trillion dollars or so we now owe them we'd all be fucked.

actually we have a deal with china.... we look the other way so they can devalue their currency and sell us shit for cheap to keep their production up, and they hold the money we owe them for the goods they ship us.

It would destroy china's economy to let it loose in the market.

To the op, that is a good way to put it. Anyone who says otherwise and states that it isnt socialism needs to define socialism then. Because that is exactly what it is. Communism is more of a dictatorship and the government defines what you should have. Socialism is the in-between.

As far as bill clinton vs obama...they are both incredibly different people with different goals in mind. Id vote Bill in over either candidate, however options are limited. Americans got the shaft.

[Total_Blender]

To the op, that is a good way to put it. Anyone who says otherwise and states that it isnt socialism needs to define socialism then. Because that is exactly what it is. Communism is more of a dictatorship and the government defines what you should have. Socialism is the in-between.
.

From Dictionary.com:

so·cial·ism var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "60", "18", "[img][/img]", "6"); interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high"); interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t"); interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictiona ry%2Faudio%2Fahd4%2FS%2FS0525000.mp3"); interfaceflash.write(); (sō'shə-lĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

I find it odd that McCain supporters are all up in arms about the "socialism" of Obama's tax plan but are silent about the $700 billion corporate welfare of the bailout that both candidates supported. Remember that McCain suspended his campaign to pass the bailout. Is it only socialism when the economic policy of the centralized government benefits the lower classes?

[rrutter81]

I find it odd that McCain supporters are all up in arms about the "socialism" of Obama's tax plan but are silent about the $700 billion corporate welfare of the bailout that both candidates supported. Remember that McCain suspended his campaign to pass the bailout. Is it only socialism when the economic policy of the centralized government benefits the lower classes?

Hell yes it is! They didnt EARN it. They didnt work for it. ITS A FRICKEN HANDOUT. Its marxist to the core. Where it attempts to "level the playing field" for all classes. However it is using Capitalism to "fund" this social behavior. Is it pure socialism? No.... However we can only add so many socialist style plans before our debt reaches beyond the national debt clock again. Believe it.... socialism wont be able to pay for it. We can ALL have 40,000 y/r salaries (pure socialism) and we still wouldnt be able to pay it. So they rip off people who worked up to the top. How convenient...

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...n.marxist.wftv

Biden caught offguard with nothing smart to say.

He avoids the question and focuses on the middle class tax breaks but not the LOWER CLASS welfare (tax credits) check.

Hell he even lies and says he isnt even "spreading the wealth around" when everyone has heard him not once, not twice, but 3 times on different occasions. Unbelievable these lying c**k smokers do and the SHEEP follow the fad.

Here is what i think of anyone who votes for these un-american bastards.

[white24d]

I find it odd that McCain supporters are all up in arms about the "socialism" of Obama's tax plan but are silent about the $700 billion corporate welfare of the bailout that both candidates supported. Remember that McCain suspended his campaign to pass the bailout. Is it only socialism when the economic policy of the centralized government benefits the lower classes?

thanks , that is the point i am always trying to make!!

[Alan®]

Communism is the reason our government is even functioning right now. If it weren't for China and the trillion dollars or so we now owe them we'd all be fucked.

Funny that you mention China considering that they have probably the worst income inequality in the world and they have 1/5 of the world's population. They're doing so well

[Total_Blender]

Funny that you mention China considering that they have probably the worst income inequality in the world and they have 1/5 of the world's population. They're doing so well

I'm just saying that they have 700 billion dollars to send us whenever our leaders (on both sides) decide to socialize the failure of their corporate cronies. I know all about their human rights violations and their income inequality, but that is un-related to the point I was trying to make.

[Alan®]

, but that is un-related to the point I was trying to make.

How? You basically just praised Communism and then when I point out how not so great China is it's well that's not really the point. I'm sorry you cannot praise China in their economic success and in the same breath discount the other stuff because you think the two are not interrelated.

What does the average person live on over there? How much does the average Chinese factory worker make? People want to complain about income inequality and bad working conditions, and and then praise China when the very things that we condem is what is allowing them to get as far and as quickly as they are.

[tony]

I guess this would be relevant if Obama was actually going to go in and take all your possessions and distribute them as he sees fit. This is what happens when misunderstandings get stretched.

[willum14pb]

who said anything about obama? I just posted it for a good laugh. So quick to defend your candidate.. you must know something we don't..?

[tony]

hmm..

So today In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie

[willum14pb]

hmm..

[/size]

watching you squeal makes me tickle inside.

[tony]

watching you squeal makes me tickle inside.

Squeal? lol Have you looked at the polls lately? All this that you're posting is wasted bandwidth... please believe this stuff makes time pass for me and nothing more.

The damn size/quote BS still gets me from time to time though.

[willum14pb]

please believe this stuff makes time pass for me and nothing more.

[Total_Blender]

All this that you're posting is wasted bandwidth... please believe this stuff makes time pass for me and nothing more.
.

Yeah I'm with you. I already voted, so its not like trying to sway me is going to do any good.

Willum, there are some people out there who can't even get on at Mickey D's or even Cap'n D's because those places are still businesses and are just a little selective in hiring. If you had the responsibility of managing one of these places, would you hire any random misfit off the street?

[Total_Blender]

The different font sizes and uneven spacing smacks of cut-and-paste e mail forward. If you really did cut out on that server without leaving a tip I wouldn't go back to that restaurant expecting loogie-free food if I were you.

You make the assumption that all lower income people are lazy. You also make the assumption that everyone can find work 100% of the time.

But yeah, God forbid that the Socialists get into power and turn everything back to the way it was in the 1990's when the economy tanked, unemployment soared and businesses and the stock market all suffered soooo badly. When all those rich people lost everything from being taxed an extra 3-5%. Remember that huge deficit that Clinton left us?

[willum14pb]

You make the assumption that all lower income people are lazy. You also make the assumption that everyone can find work 100% of the time.

Yes, i copy pasted it from somewhere else, as i saw it funny. This assumption you think im making is false. I don't assume everyone in lower income is lazy, but i do believe the lazy people don't deserve a helping hand. People can find work 100% of the time, it's just whether or not they're willing to "stoop lower than they have and work a job they don't want to work." The local mc donalds/waffle house is always hiring. So please don't generalize my thoughts because you really dont know anything .

[redrumracer]

Yes, i copy pasted it from somewhere else, as i saw it funny. This assumption you think im making is false. I don't assume everyone in lower income is lazy, but i do believe the lazy people don't deserve a helping hand. People can find work 100% of the time, it's just whether or not they're willing to "stoop lower than they have and work a job they don't want to work." The local mc donalds/waffle house is always hiring. So please don't generalize my thoughts because you really dont know anything .

or at least the one down here isnt. but either way if i had a more open schedule and didnt have to work around school then yea finding work wouldnt be hard.

[BanginJimmy]

or at least the one down here isnt. but either way if i had a more open schedule and didnt have to work around school then yea finding work wouldnt be hard.

no chit. I'm in school full time and it is damn near impossible to find a job that will work around my schedule.

I have even tried to talk them into working around my schedule til I finish the current quarter (no more than 3 months), then I can schedule my classes to fit their schedule and it doesnt do me any good.

[carbon_crash]

Yes, i copy pasted it from somewhere else, as i saw it funny. This assumption you think im making is false. I don't assume everyone in lower income is lazy, but i do believe the lazy people don't deserve a helping hand. People can find work 100% of the time, it's just whether or not they're willing to "stoop lower than they have and work a job they don't want to work." The local mc donalds/waffle house is always hiring. So please don't generalize my thoughts because you really dont know anything .

Well said sir, Employment is ALWAYS available. It might not be what you want to do or what you want to make, but Fast food and warehouses are always hiring

[SPOOLIN]

awesome, i've heard one of these.

[Total_Blender]

Biden was laughing because its a stupid question. Its no more than of a redistribution of wealth than what happened when Bush made the tax cuts and shifted the tax burden to the middle class, only its going in the opposite direction. The middle class are getting BACK their tax cuts that Bush and the Republicans took away.

So when a company fails and loses billions they have EARNED a bailout? Why can't we apply the same Social Darwinism to corporate America that the Republicans want to apply to "Joe Sixpack"?

And as far as the debt clock goes, it was getting close to maxed out already from Iraq and the stimulus and then the bailout added 700 billion to it. Obama's tax plan is small potatoes in comparison.

[rrutter81]

Obama's 95% Tax Illusion

Or you want to take it in the ..... as long as he smiles at you and says it'll be alright?

Obama's energy policy.... inflating tires
Obama's financial policy.... print more money
Obama's class based policy.... Robinhood economics
Obama's foreign policy.... Dont fund the troops that didnt make the war

how in the hell is this guy a leader?

[rrutter81]

Biden was laughing because its a stupid question. Its no more than of a redistribution of wealth than what happened when Bush made the tax cuts and shifted the tax burden to the middle class, only its going in the opposite direction. The middle class are getting BACK their tax cuts that Bush and the Republicans took away.

So when a company fails and loses billions they have EARNED a bailout? Why can't we apply the same Social Darwinism to corporate America that the Republicans want to apply to "Joe Sixpack"?

And as far as the debt clock goes, it was getting close to maxed out already from Iraq and the stimulus and then the bailout added 700 billion to it. Obama's tax plan is small potatoes in comparison.

Biden was giving his fake laugh of "i dont know wtf to say". Then bought a rhetorical question to just come up with a lie,

"obama isnt going to spread the wealth around" O RLY?
"the middle class....." THAT WASNT THE QUESTION

How about the lower class who didnt pay a dime and are getting MY money. I didnt sign up for taking care of lazy screw ups! Obama's plan and Bush's are only the same to the middle class who actually PAY taxes. Not the 45% of americans who dont even PAY TAXES. Your saying we are getting the tax cuts with 57 TRILLION obama proposes in liabilities?

Specific companies are not getting a bailout. You can blame the community reinvestment act of socialistic behavior and DEREGULATION BY CLINTON that gave us this catastrophe of SOCIAL behavior. Look it up. Socialism + Capitalism mixes as well as oil and vinegar. What did Barney Frank, Reid, Pelosi and all those socialistic darwin screwups say in 2003-2004 when Republicans wanted MORE REGULATION on the federal loans that Fannie and Freddie made?

"I see no problems with this housing...blah blah blah"

The funny thing is, it doesnt matter if i give you a step by step reason why the housing crisis/credit crisis with a "connect the dots" coloring book. You would still come up with some B.S. LIE that you misconstrued when it is there in front of your face.

This is going to be a collapse of our economy if we keep bringing this socialist crap to screw it all up.

[Vteckidd]

those stories are extreme, but it is the CORE of what Obama stands for. Like it or not, this is his tax policy. He wants to raise money on the RICH and give that money in TAX BREAKS to the poor who dont pay any taxes anyway.

Hes not going to take your Ferrari and give it to a homeless guy. Hes going to take the Money you were going to use to buy the Ferrari and give it to 20 middle class workers who make under $60,000 a year.

SOrry folks quit lying to yourselves, that is what his plan suggests.

[rrutter81]

those stories are extreme, but it is the CORE of what Obama stands for. Like it or not, this is his tax policy. He wants to raise money on the RICH and give that money in TAX BREAKS to the poor who dont pay any taxes anyway.

Hes not going to take your Ferrari and give it to a homeless guy. Hes going to take the Money you were going to use to buy the Ferrari and give it to 20 middle class workers who make under $60,000 a year.

SOrry folks quit lying to yourselves, that is what his plan suggests.

I never said it was communism.

Taking money from the upper class and giving it to people who dont even pay taxes is my problem. Why not pay off the debt instead of giving to some lazy smuck who lives in mom's basement.

The Republicans are quick to criticize Obama's economic plans as "socialism". But I don't think most republicans realize what socialism really is, which is what you have in China. What Obama wants to do is to re-structure the tax code back to the way it was under Bill Clinton. We were still a far cry from socialism under Clinton. The rich stayed rich, the poor pretty much stayed poor, the middle class were just a little better off.

We are actually closer to conditions in China under the Republicans who are all for income inequality, de-regulation (see also: bad working conditions)etc.

WTF that is an outright lie!

and china is communist-pseudo capitalist. WTF??? they monitor their internet and where they go, no human rights, etc etc. They arent socialist in the least. Its almost a dictatorship.

Oh wait, wikipedia is always right, and what china tells you is always the truth.... lol

[blurred visions]

giving to some lazy smuck who lives in mom's basement.

This is the generalization that someone out there in the media has pushed republicans to think in total disregard of what the lower/middle class can be. I'm a college student, and taking away my families worth (they don't claim me anyways), I would be in the lower class due to my income. Certainly when I get out of college and have loans stacked up I'll appreciate a relief to get me jump started, and I'm not one of a few that fall into this category.

Most of you people arguing in this thread are part of the middle class, in which you will benefit from Obama's plan. I know you want to have your respective angles in trying to down grade the plan, but the words your speaking are those from the elites, and I find it impossible that if someone offered you a tax break you wouldn't take it.

[rrutter81]

This is the generalization that someone out there in the media has pushed republicans to think in total disregard of what the lower/middle class can be. I'm a college student, and taking away my families worth (they don't claim me anyways), I would be in the lower class due to my income. Certainly when I get out of college and have loans stacked up I'll appreciate a relief to get me jump started, and I'm not one of a few that fall into this category.

Most of you people arguing in this thread are part of the middle class, in which you will benefit from Obama's plan. I know you want to have your respective angles in trying to down grade the plan, but the words your speaking are those from the elites, and I find it impossible that if someone offered you a tax break you wouldn't take it.

WOW.... bailout for school? You CHOSE to take that student loan. My wife (before she met me) specifically did NOT take out a student loan but used her credit cards to pay them off quickly. Now i just use my tax return to pay them off, however previously she would put ALL of her money in to those Credit Cards to pay them back. Also you get a TAX RETURN for schooling you pay for, why not put that toward the loan? Its practically free with that method.

While i understand/commend what you are going through, i dont agree with giving you a dime. Life is full of risks and sometimes it doesnt pay off. I went the G.E.D. route and still in the upper percentile bracket, however i want to hit the "elites" before 30.

[tony]

While i understand/commend what you are going through, i dont agree with giving you a dime. Life is full of risks and sometimes it doesnt pay off.

Why even have public education at all then? I mean its a socialist program right?

[blurred visions]

i dont agree with giving you a dime.

A tax break is not GIVING money, but giving RELIEF from paying higher taxes. I keep hearing republicans say this over and over, but Obama doesn't want to GIVE money, he wants to change the way taxes are pulled in, and how heavy they are pulled in depending on how much money you make.

It's really not hard to think about, tax the majority less and they'll make more purchases which will help the rich. I certainly have changed my spending habits recently, and if we continue with the way things are going then I'll keep spending less.

I don't view Obama's plan as being anything like "Robin Hood," its just a plan to help fix this economy. If we weren't having such problems then I might agree that if your making less or if you aren't doing anything with your life, then you shouldn't get a break.

I don't know if republicans have dollar signs in their eyes or just an overall rage for money, but times like these you need to just calm down, take a step back, and look at what will be best for the future. I know right now you might be taxed higher, but that is in an attempt to get the economy on the right track, and with the economy on the right track, you'll make your money.

[Total_Blender]

.Hes not going to take your Ferrari and give it to a homeless guy. Hes going to take the Money you were going to use to buy the Ferrari and give it to 20 middle class workers who make under $60,000 a year.
.

He's going to take 5% of the money for your Ferrari. So you can probably still get the Ferrari, but you might not be able to get the memory foam seats or the gyroscopic cupholders. Oh the HUMANITY!!!

[Vteckidd]

He's going to take 5% of the money for your Ferrari. So you can probably still get the Ferrari, but you might not be able to get the memory foam seats or the gyroscopic cupholders. Oh the HUMANITY!!!

i never said i wouldnt be able to afford the Ferrari still. We have said the rich will stay rich, they are smart.

5%? where are you getting this number from? taxes would increase anywhere from 20-33% under Obama for the "upper" RICH.

Your line about the Memory Foam seats further makes me believe you Obama supporters are buying into this EVIL RICH hype. Just cause you arent rich, doesnt mean you can sit in judgement of the people that have money. Most rich people were poor at one time, how many poor people now used to be rich?

And again you are glossing over the CORE of his plan, which is to TAKE MONEY from the people that PAY THE MOST and give it to YOU, the person that pays the LEAST.

HOW IS THAT FAIR?

Im all for cutting taxes, FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS JUST LIKE MCCAIN WANTS TO DO. What i am NOT FOR is giving the middle class a HUGE TAX BREAK at the expense of the "RICH" because you guys are duped into believing that the rich are horrible greedy people.

How many people here ever got a job from a poor person? anyone?

Most people dont get it because
A) THey dont have any motivation to go out and make more money, they think its owed to them

B) They want to blame all their problems on someone else, Obama is pandering to that

C) They have ZERO concept of how a business works, how revenue is generated, all they are thinking out is that "FAT CHECK OBAMA IS GONNA GIVE ME!"

D) They have ZERO Concept on how our Tax System works

E) Obama is using this as a class warfare tactic, its not CHANGE, its the same old regurgitated DEMOCRAT BULLSHIT we hear EVERY 4 years. I mean its funny all you guys are falling for it. The republicans havent changed, this is the same shit they do, but they are getting the blame on the economy because of the LIBERALS IN CONGRESS WHO PERPETUATED THE HOUSING CRISIS.


I would bet many of you are like me, make sub $100,000 a year. I would bet the MAJORITY OF YOU have NEVER run a business, or owned your own business. So many of you, no disrespect, have NO IDEA WHAT IT TAKES OR HOW HARD IT IS TO MAKE IT. You know that sense of security you have, that "im gonna get my next paycheck on friday", we dont have that. There are weeks you dont know if you can even pay your bills. Its competitive, people always trying to take you down, undercut you, etc.

So, all i ask is that you understand what its like to STRUGGLE, i know many of you prob do. But its what you do to make it through that struggle that seperates you from the NORMAL PEOPLE who DONT DESERVE TO BE RICH, and the ELITE.

WHen did we start rewarding mediocracy ?

[Total_Blender]

WHen did we start rewarding mediocracy ?

Right after we subsidized failure?

It is true that I would roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans back to the level they were under Bill Clinton, when I don't remember rich people feeling oppressed.

Source: Fox News interview: Apr 27, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vYLXZEVsz0

And he's returning the tax rates for the top 2 brackets to 36% and 39.6%, which is where they were under Clinton. Its on page 6 here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes...Plan_FINAL.pdf

Edit: I was sure to use an approved Fox News (tm) source so you guys wouldn't scream BIAS!! lol

[Alan®]

Right after we subsidized failure?


Source: Fox News interview: Apr 27, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vYLXZEVsz0

And he's returning the tax rates for the top 2 brackets to 36% and 39.6%, which is where they were under Clinton. Its on page 6 here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes...Plan_FINAL.pdf

Edit: I was sure to use an approved Fox News (tm) source so you guys wouldn't scream BIAS!! lol

Ok so then I have a question. And my understand here maybe wrong so dont crucify me here.

If the top two tax brackets go back to that then what is the point of having an LLC or S-Corp when you are essentially going to be paying the same amount in taxes anyway? Other than the legal protection.

[green91]

I have entered the SPIN ZONE while reading this thread

[tony]

Can any of you show an instance of Trickle Down Economics that did not cause a massive deficit?

Everyone should see their tax bill hike, there are expenses that need to be taken care of and as if nobody has noticed.. its going to require investment.

This whole subject is rhetorical because it is dependent upon your beliefs. If you lean right you see it as welfare and socialism.. if you lean left you feel the current system has not worked and needs to change. There is no common ground amongst any of you.

[rrutter81]

Can any of you show an instance of Trickle Down Economics that did not cause a massive deficit?

Everyone should see their tax bill hike, there are expenses that need to be taken care of and as if nobody has noticed.. its going to require investment.

This whole subject is rhetorical because it is dependent upon your beliefs. If you lean right you see it as welfare and socialism.. if you lean left you feel the current system has not worked and needs to change. There is no common ground amongst any of you.

The 70s is a good ground for the crap being spewed here. Windfall profits, evil corporations, taxing the rich and giving to the poor. Oh yes... that worked well. Then when we use trickle-down it does work until the socialists get their hands in the cookie jar and taint it. BTW we had defecits before Reagan and surpluses after. It works, its when you loons try to "disney-fy" capitalism so that charities are given out that it screws up. Capitalism isnt perfect but its worked the best so far.

Look at all the other marxist-style governments, broke as hell.
Welcome to the "changed united states".......comrade.

[Vteckidd]

Can any of you show an instance of Trickle Down Economics that did not cause a massive deficit?

Everyone should see their tax bill hike, there are expenses that need to be taken care of and as if nobody has noticed.. its going to require investment.

This whole subject is rhetorical because it is dependent upon your beliefs. If you lean right you see it as welfare and socialism.. if you lean left you feel the current system has not worked and needs to change. There is no common ground amongst any of you.

good post.

This goes back to an important issue for me which is SPENDING.

We need an ACTIVE CONGRESS that isnt concerned with lining their own pockets. CLinton was GREAT with the Repuiblican Congress, it kept him in check, and they got alot done, whether it was good or not, not my point. But they were ACTIVE.

I Feel like the last 8 years its been Bush acting Rogue trying to do what he feels is best for the economy/country/national security. Lets be HONEST the dems have done JACK SHIT in the congress.

I think as long as we dont have a Congress willing to push the envelope with the president, we will NEVER control spending, and thus no matter what happens, our deficit will continue to increase.

Side Question: Do you really think under Obama the Deficit will DECREASE?