McCain finally speaks up against his supporters...

Seeing as how people are trying to exploit flaws in either candidates character, I want to ask the obvious question and get some hard facts to back it up...here it is...

Can anyone here name a politician without character flaws and/or without associations to "questionable" citizens or organizations?

If someone can name a politician who is COMPLETELY clean, I would like to know about it. Otherwise, all this finger pointing is meaningless.

Ron Paul?






If politics and government were secular we would all be better off.
If we got rid of the 2 party system, we would be a lot better.




Theres a difference in being told you're free and actually being free.

Jesus

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

Ron Paul?

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Facts to back it up?

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Originally Posted by JITB

Jesus

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LOL

Nice try.

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Originally Posted by bafbrian

Facts to back it up?

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The "?" denoted that its merely a guess.

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

The "?" denoted that its merely a guess.

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Understandable, but you failed to back it up with facts, as my post above states.

i cant back up a guess, thats why its called a guess.... its because i dont know lol. just like i dont take a guess on a multiple choice test when i have the answer with me.



if you want facts, if there are any, which i dont know, because it was a guess... then try:
www.google.com

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

i cant back up a guess, thats why its called a guess.... its because i dont know lol. just like i dont take a guess on a multiple choice test when i have the answer with me.



if you want facts, if there are any, which i dont know, because it was a guess... then try:
www.google.com

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I commend your attempt. Anyone else wanna give it a try?

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

If we got rid of the 2 party system, we would be a lot better.

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X2 George Washington was a genious for his time :cheers:

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Originally Posted by redGT

X2 George Washington was a genious for his time :cheers:

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I commend Washington for straying from political affiliation. However, one his flaws, from my personal research, is his ties to slavery. Specifically, being a slave owner in Virginia. From my perspective and some in academia, he is not a truly flawless "politician".

This does not mean I have condemned Washington for this but, I have come to the realization that every politician has some unsavory ties, at least those whom I have come across.

My question still stands, is there a clean politician, if so, what facts do you have to back up the claim?

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Originally Posted by bafbrian

My question still stands, is there a clean politician, if so, what facts do you have to back up the claim?

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the answer to this is that there isn't one.

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Originally Posted by redGT

the answer to this is that there isn't one.

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Truely. With the way people here on the forums have been arguing about the election the last few weeks, it could lead one to believe otherwise. These threads about the unimportant issues keep popping up the instant something other than the real issues.

All these threads about McCain said this, Obama has ties to them, and whatever garbage means nothing. It is sad to come onto the forums and see us argue over minuet issues. As I have posted before, lets focus on the important issues that actually impact where our nation goes.

If you don't like a candidate for some social reason, then that is your choice. I am not gonna tell anyone how to vote or for whom to vote for. But, it is better to see us be passionate about the real issues at hand.

I just wanted to ask the rhetorical question to open peoples eyes to the true issues at hand.

yeah but they dont want to focus on the reAL ISSUS

bring up taxes, an its about how its the Riches fault

Bring up the war and its bushs lies

Bring up Lack of a record and its Palin troopergate

i mean the list goes on an on.

We are VERY divided on these issues, i suspect alot of America is too

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Originally Posted by Mr. KiDD

yeah but they dont want to focus on the reAL ISSUS

bring up taxes, an its about how its the Riches fault

Bring up the war and its bushs lies

Bring up Lack of a record and its Palin troopergate

i mean the list goes on an on.

We are VERY divided on these issues, i suspect alot of America is too

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Who is they?

Democrats? Republicans? Greens? Libs? Socialists?

I understand that is what is covered by news media. But, people should be able to transcend these mediocre issues.

Taxes - I don't blame the rich.
War - One more than one party voted to military action.
Palin's Record - No one is born with experience, you have to learn it.
Obama's Experience - Again, not born with it, have to learn it.

The list goes on.

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Originally Posted by alpine_xj

Lol, surprisingly most of the frequently posting republicans in here are actually intelligent and have plenty of facts to back up what they say. So don't say that we all "thought he was a terrorist when we heard his name." pfffft

And on to Ayers. It is dumb to say that he did not have terroristic associations, I don't know what you all know about the Weather underground but they did bomb several government buildings and banks. And Ayers never denied any of this. Whether he was there or not, I don't know. But he endorsed that group and their actions, it's called guilt by association folks.

Does this mean Obama is a terrorist? Fuck no. But him having associations with the man is obviously going to be examined, and it should. You "Obama can do no wrong" people seem to not understand he is running for president. You guys are having a field day with troopergate where it's been shown that Palin has done nothing wrong, but whine about it when Obama's association with this man gets brought up. Presidential candidates are going to be thoroughly examined, and in this day and age where the general public is scared of terrorism OF COURSE any association with a man like Ayers will be looked in to. It's perfectly reasonable to do so. If McCain used to chill with the Unibomber I'm sure dems would be shitting bricks exposing it everywhere.

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You can most CERTAINLY look into William Ayers if you'd like, he is currently a well respected Professor at the University of Illinois, I doubt he has anything to hide at this point. But in the labeling of a terrorist Republicans seem to overlook that small fact.

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Originally Posted by tony

You can most CERTAINLY look into William Ayers if you'd like, he is currently a well respected Professor at the University of Illinois, I doubt he has anything to hide at this point. But in the labeling of a terrorist Republicans seem to overlook that small fact.

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so if Osama Bin Laden becomes a professor we are all supposed to roll over and say hes doing "gods work"?
PLEASE

Ayers is NOT well respected, hes known for teached RADICAL IDEOLOGY, and bragging about his former radical ways.

Maybe you should look into him a bit more.

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Originally Posted by JITB

Jesus

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Jesus does't have a clean record! He was considered a RADICAL! sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Mr. KiDD

so if Osama Bin Laden becomes a professor we are all supposed to roll over and say hes doing "gods work"?
PLEASE

Ayers is NOT well respected, hes known for teached RADICAL IDEOLOGY, and bragging about his former radical ways.

Maybe you should look into him a bit more.

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Funny you bring that up, because Bush has links to the Bin Laden family.. why does he not get the same ridicule that Obama gets from you?

And I'm sorry Mike, I didn't know you personally know Bill Ayer's peers at University of Illinois or the REPUBLICANs he has worked with in Chicago on education reform. Obviously they respect him in some regard.. but you wouldn't know that if your tv never turns away from propaganda and actually did your own research.

so is like this ayers guy running for president?



no matter who gets voted in, its not who most of us wanted. if you do "want them" then you would have to agree on every issue and way of thinking and prefer him over any other person.

both of them show support for the proposed missile defense sheild in europe, which makes me extremely upset.

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Originally Posted by bafbrian

I commend your attempt. Anyone else wanna give it a try?

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How about because he wants to dissolve the Fed, and opposes the patriot act, opposes the ridiculous war on drugs, and won all the debates he was in. How about because he would have been the most educated candidate running, and if I'm not mistaken one of the more experienced ones.

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Originally Posted by bafbrian

If someone can name a politician who is COMPLETELY clean, I would like to know about it. Otherwise, all this finger pointing is meaningless.

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X2

I never got into the "building a candidate up by tearing the other down" ideology. I support a candidate because I feel that he/she will do what's best for the people and will be best for the position at hand. The only draw backs to thinking this way are, you become a part of the smallest minority in the American political system (I don't consider it a problem in many ways) and it magnifies the finger pointing even more.

I'm just glad that McCain finally called for an end to some of the ignorance. Be you a McCain supporter or not, as reasonably sensible adults, we should all be disgusted by the ignorance of some of these people & their statements.

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Originally Posted by tony

Funny you bring that up, because Bush has links to the Bin Laden family.. why does he not get the same ridicule that Obama gets from you?

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Huge difference. First the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia is very pro American. Second, it has been nearly 15 years since Osama was cut off from the family money and disowned according to islamic law. Only a couple obsure members of the bin Laden family are anything more than very rich businessmen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family

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Originally Posted by tony

REPUBLICANs he has worked with in Chicago

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damn I lived in Chicago for 18 years and still keep fairly up to date and I never knew there were republicans in Chicago. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nomad!

X2

I never got into the "building a candidate up by tearing the other down" ideology. I support a candidate because I feel that he/she will do what's best for the people and will be best for the position at hand. The only draw backs to thinking this way are, you become a part of the smallest minority in the American political system (I don't consider it a problem in many ways) and it magnifies the finger pointing even more.

I'm just glad that McCain finally called for an end to some of the ignorance. Be you a McCain supporter or not, as reasonably sensible adults, we should all be disgusted by the ignorance of some of these people & their statements.

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As far as being a part of the minority, I consider than a good thing. It allows one to appreciate seeing things from multiple perspectives. Not to say others don't, but it seems those in the middle are more likely to do so.

As for McCain, he is calling for an end to ignorance that his campaign started, with the Ayers association. IIRC, he stated in his previous run for president, he called this sort campaigning deplorable and something that has no place in politics.

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

Huge difference. First the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia is very pro American. Second, it has been nearly 15 years since Osama was cut off from the family money and disowned according to islamic law. Only a couple obsure members of the bin Laden family are anything more than very rich businessmen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family




damn I lived in Chicago for 18 years and still keep fairly up to date and I never knew there were republicans in Chicago. ;)

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Wikipedia is not a good source for information. Use something from an academic search engine, like Infomine or NetLibrary.

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Originally Posted by alpine_xj

^I think Obama is actually more arab than black. I know that black definitely isn't a majority of his heritage. Not that it matters, and I could be wrong about the arab part. But I'm pretty sure.

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Since when is Arab a race?
And wouldn't most Arab's be racially recognized as being Negroid?

Racially, he is Black and White. Biracial.

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Originally Posted by BobbyFresh

Since when is Arab a race?
And wouldn't most Arab's be racially recognized as being Negroid?

Racially, he is Black and White. Biracial.

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actually Arab is classified as Caucasain. Or if you want to get technical, Semetic.

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

actually Arab is classified as Caucasain. Or if you want to get technical, Semetic.

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My point is that Arab is not a race, it's an ethnicity.
And darker skinned Arabs would not racially be Caucasian or Semitic and even Jews aren't classified as a race, per se.


A small example of what I mean .

I'm Black, racially. Ethnically, Im Hispanic. My nationality is Panamanian.

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Originally Posted by BobbyFresh

Since when is Arab a race?
And wouldn't most Arab's be racially recognized as being Negroid?

Racially, he is Black and White. Biracial.

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I mean, I dont know what having Arabian descent falls under. Just stating something, not trying to discriminate against him. I actually couldn't find anything supporting it so I retract the statement.

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Originally Posted by blurred visions

Your typical, I hope you look back one day and realize how brainwashed you are by Hannity. Just the other day I turned on 750 AM news talk radio and listened in, IF that man is not the biggest brainwashing right wing reporter I have ever heard, then I need an adjustment on whats what. Everything you just said is worthless now that I know your a Hannity listener. You obviously can't think for yourself and you need someone else telling YOU what to think. Do yourself a favor, since your already making an attempt at staying current with politics, turn that garbage off, and tune into CNN. They'll tell you the garbage being said, and then show the other sides reaction IN TRUTH, the actual words of the other candidate (I bet you've never heard that on Hannity, him giving Obama's defense or explanation is nothing more than a few words that barely sum up whats true.) CNN is one of the few news networks that enables me to think clearly, for myself.

But hey, some people that support a certain side enjoy having the garbage of trash talk filter into their daily lives to give them a sense of enlightenment, especially at a time when their side is stretching further away from the majority.


:2cents:

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ROFL, CNN???? The Communist News Network.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

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Originally Posted by SPOOLIN

ROFL, CNN???? The Communist News Network.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

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Really? I've already discussed this..

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/...d.php?t=199019

Just so u know....

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

Huge difference. First the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia is very pro American. Second, it has been nearly 15 years since Osama was cut off from the family money and disowned according to islamic law. Only a couple obsure members of the bin Laden family are anything more than very rich businessmen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family

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Ha! So you're perfectly okay with Osama's brother being a major investor in Bush's oil company but Obama is absolutely evil for serving on an education board with a former radical?

15 years since Osama was cut off and that is okay but 30 years since Ayers was a part of weather underground and the latter is something to be worried about? Furthermore, that is FAMILY, I seriously doubt the Bin Laden family values George Bush more than their own flesh and blood.

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

damn I lived in Chicago for 18 years and still keep fairly up to date and I never knew there were republicans in Chicago. ;)

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He lost to one there, you should look into it some time.

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Originally Posted by tony

Ha! So you're perfectly okay with Osama's brother being a major investor in Bush's oil company but Obama is absolutely evil for serving on an education board with a former radical?

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Osama's brother has no ties to any terrorist organizations that I know about. Former radical? Try unrepentant terrorist, remember this is the same guy that said in 2001 that he wished he did more. My major issues with the Ayers connection is that he 1. hasnt been up front at all about it. It seems that he only admits to it AFTER he has been called out on it by the MSM, and 2. Ayers isnt an isolated incident. Obama seems to have alot of friends that hate America. At some point you have to wonder just how much does Obama agree with their teachings.

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Originally Posted by tony

15 years since Osama was cut off and that is okay but 30 years since Ayers was a part of weather underground and the latter is something to be worried about? Furthermore, that is FAMILY, I seriously doubt the Bin Laden family values George Bush more than their own flesh and blood.

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Its been 30 years since he was active in the weather underground, but like I said, his anti-american views are still very much active and he still wishes he blew up more buildings.

As far as family views, I know that true Muslims put faith before family. If Osama was disowned according to Muslim law, then I think I would say that Osas was truely cut off. I'm not saying they value the Bush's more than Osama, but they value Muslim law over Osama.

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Originally Posted by DrivenMind

We get all excited when anyone wants to arm themselves with Nuclear weapons, even though we have thousands.

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This shows me that you are a moron.

The middle east is very unstable. At any moment you could see some wack-job in power. Are you telling me that you are OK with the possability of that wack-job with nuclear weapons?! You really need to think things out.

hey now, the US has a proud tradition of installing and supporting the people that have become wack-job middle eastern leaders.

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Originally Posted by richw131

This shows me that you are a moron.

The middle east is very unstable. At any moment you could see some wack-job in power. Are you telling me that you are OK with the possability of that wack-job with nuclear weapons?! You really need to think things out.

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Don't waste your time rich. I have already picked him apart. He just spews off whatever is on his mind.

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Originally Posted by Spektrewing386

actually Arab is classified as Caucasain. Or if you want to get technical, Semetic.

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Yep, Arabic is the language that they use. So an "Arab" would be someone who speaks Arabic as their primary language, and can trace their genealogy back to native speakers of Arabic. And its also important to point out that Arabic predates Islam. Most of the world's Muslims are non-Arabs. And there are Arab Christians who practice Eastern Christian religions like Greek Catholicism/Greek Orthodox.

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Originally Posted by richw131

This shows me that you are a moron.

The middle east is very unstable. At any moment you could see some wack-job in power. Are you telling me that you are OK with the possability of that wack-job with nuclear weapons?! You really need to think things out.

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Pakistan has Nuclear weapons, would you say they are stable considering we've caught major Al Qaida operatives there?

Pakistan and Turkey both have nukes, and both hate eachother. They have been fighting over Kashmir for decades with no real end in sight.

I know Pakistan isnt stable as a whole, but the govt base is stable in their own way. The problem is that in many parts of Pakistan there is no law other than warlords. Those are the areas that Al Qeada is showing up. it isnt like bin Laden was seen walking through the Pakistani capital with the president.