Sex education in schools...?
Sex education in schools...?
Recently there have been ads attacking Obama for wanting to put sex education in schools. This is going on his voting record when he was in Illinois senate.
palin's children obviously need this, i know many of you have stated her daughter is an adult at 17; i'm 28 and barely feel like an adult no 17 yr old is an adult. i'm sure her 17 yr old lives on her own and pays her own bills.
1) why is this a bad thing?
2) is teaching abstinence failing our kids?
discuss.
1) i was taught sex ed in school since the 3rd grade, 6th, 8th, and 10th grade... i don't see anything wrong with it and its not schools that are the failing issue here its parents. if parents don't take the initiative to be interested and an influence in their childs life in that area than its their problem. however it should be noted that friends have more influence over kids 12-18 than their parents.
2)if you look back in note 1 you'll see how i feel but i'll say it again. basically if you as a parent or your parents are NOT being pro active in this situation then you've basically failed, not the school b/c kids have enough issues with schools/authority figures so why are they actually going to listen to them
not just schools, he wants to initiate this into kindergarten. At the point where they wouldn't understand anything being talked about. Ignorant, really. Sexually active children and having kids when you're young has nothing to do with sex education. It's about being a good parent and making sure your child is aware of consequences. And i will agree with PUREjdm, your peers have more influence on you than anyone. Especially at the ages where sexual activity starts to occur. IT's cool to have sex. everyone knows that.
state your source.Originally Posted by willum14pb
again state source.I think sex ed. should be taught in school, but Obama wants it to be taught in Kindergarden....are you fuking kidding me?
just type in "obama sex education" in google. You will get plenty of sources.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3395856&page=2
Quoted directly from the curriculum outline that Obama submitted to the Media:
This is for LEVEL 1, ie. 5-8 yr olds:
Topic 3: Reproduction
Level 1
SEXUAL BEHAVIOR
- Men and women have reproductive organs that enable them to have a child.
- Men and women have specific cells in their bodies (sperm cells and egg cells) that enable them to reproduce.
- Reproduction requires that a sperm and egg join.
- Vaginal intercourse when a penis is placed inside a vagina is the most common way for a sperm and egg to join.
- When a woman is pregnant, the fetus grows inside her body in her uterus.
- A woman can be pregnant with more than one fetus at a time.
- Babies usually come out of a womans body through an opening called a vagina.
- Some babies are born by an operation called a Caesarian Section.
- A womans breasts can provide milk for a baby.
- Not all men and women have children.
- People who cannot have children may choose to adopt.
Topic 1: Sexuality Throughout Life
Level 1
Topic 2: Masturbation
- Most children are curious about their bodies.
- Bodies can feel good when touched.
Level 1
- Touching and rubbing ones own genitals to feel good is called masturbation.
- Some boys and girls masturbate and others do not.
- Masturbation should be done in a private place.
Ummm, is this "age appropriate"?????
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3395856&page=2
Quoted directly from the curriculum outline that Obama submitted to the Media:
This is for LEVEL 1, ie. 5-8 yr olds:
Topic 3: Reproduction
Level 1
SEXUAL BEHAVIOR
- Men and women have reproductive organs that enable them to have a child.
- Men and women have specific cells in their bodies (sperm cells and egg cells) that enable them to reproduce.
- Reproduction requires that a sperm and egg join.
- Vaginal intercourse when a penis is placed inside a vagina is the most common way for a sperm and egg to join.
- When a woman is pregnant, the fetus grows inside her body in her uterus.
- A woman can be pregnant with more than one fetus at a time.
- Babies usually come out of a womans body through an opening called a vagina.
- Some babies are born by an operation called a Caesarian Section.
- A womans breasts can provide milk for a baby.
- Not all men and women have children.
- People who cannot have children may choose to adopt.
Topic 1: Sexuality Throughout Life
Level 1
Topic 2: Masturbation
- Most children are curious about their bodies.
- Bodies can feel good when touched.
Level 1
Ummm, is this "age appropriate"?????
- Touching and rubbing ones own genitals to feel good is called masturbation.
- Some boys and girls masturbate and others do not.
- Masturbation should be done in a private place.
curriculum outline where is this on that abc page?
You can read the entire curriculum proposed here:
http://www.siecus.org/_data/global/images/guidelines.pdf
Topic 5: Sexual Orientation Subconcept: As people grow and develop they may begin to feel romantically and/or sexually attracted to people of the same and/or a different gender.
Level 1
Topic 6: Gender Identity (begins at level 2)
- Human beings can love people of the same gender and people of another gender.
- Some people are heterosexual, which means they can be attracted to and fall in love with someone of another gender.
- Some people are homosexual, which means they can be attracted to and fall in love with someone of the same gender.
- Homosexual men and women are also known as gay men and lesbians.
- People deserve respect regardless of who they are attracted to.
- Making fun of people by calling them gay (e.g. homo, fag, queer) is disrespectful and hurtful.
Topic 6: Sexual Fantasy (begins at level 3)
Topic 2: Contraception Subconcept: Contraception enables people to have sexual intercourse and avoid unintended pregnancy.
Topic 4: Abortion Subconcept: When a woman becomes pregnant and chooses not to have a child, she has the option of having an abortion.
Level 1
Topic 5: Sexually Transmitted Diseases
- Sometimes women become pregnant when they do not want to be or are unable to care for a child.
Level 1
Topic 5: Diversity Subconcept: Our society has a diversity of sexual attitudes and behaviors; some people are unfairly discriminated against because of the way they express their sexuality.
- Sexually transmitted diseases are caused by germs such as bacteria and viruses.
- There are many types of sexually transmitted diseases.
- People who do not engage in certain behaviors do not get STDs.
- A small number of children are born with STDs that they get from their mothers during pregnancy or birth.
- The most common ways for a person to get an STD is to participate in sexual behavior or share a needle with another person who is already infected with an STD.
- Children who find needles on the ground should not touch them and should tell an adult.
Level 1
- Individuals differ in the way they think, act, look, and live.
- Talking about differences helps people understand each other better.
- The belief that all members of a group will behave the same way is called a stereotype.
- Stereotypes can hurt people.
- All people should receive fair and equal treatment.
- People who are different are often treated negatively or unequally, which is unfair.
Yall can read the PDF in it's entirety (sp?) above. Make up your own minds if you would want YOUR 5-8 yr old being "taught" these things by someone who inevitably will inject THEIR OWN thought process, prejudices, and experiences or lack thereof into that curriculum. Think about it.
This is the problem with Obama's plan. He wants it to be "taught" way before it will ever make any sense and/or appropriate.
I have no problem with teaching sex ed in school, although I believe the real responsability lies with the parents at home. Parents should teach their own children about real life, including sex. If they are not comfortable talking about it, then maybe school sex ed. can open that channel of comm. for them (although that's the chicken way out).
BTW Paul, you should go look up the curriculum that Obama has in mind to teach. He proposes to teach very small children about gay marriages, masturbation, and condom use to kids that have no clue what any of that is. Makes no sense.
'This is the problem with Obama's plan. He wants it to be "taught" way before it will ever make any sense and/or appropriate.
I have no problem with teaching sex ed in school, although I believe the real responsability lies with the parents at home. Parents should teach their own children about real life, including sex. If they are not comfortable talking about it, then maybe school sex ed. can open that channel of comm. for them (although that's the chicken way out).
BTW Paul, you should go look up the curriculum that Obama has in mind to teach. He proposes to teach very small children about gay marriages, masturbation, and condom use to kids that have no clue what any of that is. Makes no sense.
The more i hear about obama the worse..
I think sex ed. should be taught in school, but Obama wants it to be taught in Kindergarden....are you fuking kidding me?
He supported legislation in the Illinois state senate that would teach young children how to deal with sexual predators in a manner appropriate for age and development. I don't see anything wrong with teaching kids how to identify and say NO to unwanted sexual advances. do you? .
Here is the full-text of the Illinois state senate bill SB99
Note that parents can request their kids be taken out of any part of the curriculum they do not agree with if they choose.
thank you. republicans on this board seem to be so full of BS it is mind boggling.He supported legislation in the Illinois state senate that would teach young children how to deal with sexual predators in a manner appropriate for age and development. I don't see anything wrong with teaching kids how to identify and say NO to unwanted sexual advances. do you? .
Here is the full-text of the Illinois state senate bill SB99
Note that parents can request their kids be taken out of any part of the curriculum they do not agree with if they choose.
So do the Dems...
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
i would consider BS to fall under making a statement and not being able to back it up... most of my opinions have some searchable facts to them other then stating blanket BS answers i've read in the majority of these threads.
honestly i think it would make less hassle to just say i'm voting for him b/c he is black then trying to have an intelligent conversion.
Teaching abstinence is definitely failing our kids. One need only to look at the teen pregnancy rate in GA... 95 preggos per 1000 teens. Thats pushing one in ten.
Teen pregnancy makes both parents far less likely to get a highschool education (not to mention college), making us less economically competitive as a nation due to a work force that is becoming less skilled.
Food for thought - outcomes of teen pregnancies as of 9/2006:
Source:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html
Teaching abstinence is definitely failing our kids. One need only to look at the teen pregnancy rate in GA... 95 preggos per 1000 teens. Thats pushing one in ten.
Teen pregnancy makes both parents far less likely to get a highschool education (not to mention college), making us less economically competitive as a nation due to a work force that is becoming less skilled.
Food for thought - outcomes of teen pregnancies as of 9/2006:
Source:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html
that is the truth.
as a nation we to many people cant hold thee own already.
but now kids still under there parents cant finish school because
they have kid to raise
no one is finishing school and no one can get a good job and more
people are goind broke.
sorry i cant spel 2 well right now.
Some of you guys are starting to sound like my Grandpa:
Back in my day we had to walk 5 miles in the snow to get to school...
Stephen is right about the media, I remember that back in the late 80's early '90's you could see a change in music. All of a sudden everything got really risque. Back when I was a kid the popular rappers were Run DMC and the Fat Boys. Now you have kids growing up with much more explicit stuff.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But if there are a bunch of other horses already drinking at the trough and shouting "drink" and telling him he's thirsty... he's probably gonna drink.
And like has been said before countless times, not every kid has the benefit of good parenting. A lot of the parents out there just park their kids in front of the TV and leave it at that.
We have to stop seeing the issue of parenting through the rose colored glasses of 2 parent homes and Christianized morality. We need to change our model of family values to include the alternative family structures and changing household economic conditions that most families are racked with nowadays. It may not be a pretty picture, but we need to adapt our education system to fix real problems by addressing their real causes instead of holding to an idealized "Leave it to Beaver" kind of fantasy world.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...earch&aq=f&oq=
here you go admin. Also refer to the thread i just posted in this section, about obama's plan. Thanks.
again you didn't post what he proposed you posed a google search link
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492
cite him where he proposed to kindergartensHe proposes to teach very small children about gay marriages, masturbation, and condom use to kids that have no clue what any of that is. Makes no sense.
Oh my god. So because what you quoted didn't specifically state kindergarten he's wrong? Even your own quote says VERY SMALL CHILDREN.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
dude if you plan on having discussions with the big boys you need to grow some balls an anti up or STFU. i asked 2x for cited material then i had to post an interview b/c of BS answers like usual on here
hearsay/opinion alone are not valid answers in a discussion
agreed but even your own post said VERY SMALL CHILDREN. Would that not almost certainly validate his post. Either way I don't agree that we need to go any lower than they age that we have it set at now. The problem isn't when we teach them it's how we teach them. I remember when I went to my first sex ed class in the 5th grade my gym coach kinda popped in the video and left the room. Came back asked if anyone had an questions and that was it. You think anyone payed attention? Had any idea what the hell was going on?dude if you plan on having discussions with the big boys you need to grow some balls an anti up or STFU. i asked 2x for cited material then i had to post an interview b/c of BS answers like usual on here
hearsay/opinion alone are not valid answers in a discussion
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
my own post "VERY SMALL CHILDREN" where did i say this...? furthermore how does this validate hearsay? Jaime has not cited anything w/ Obama's name attached. read my last post. teaching small children about INAPPROPRIATE touching is perfectly fine and is what he proposed. i'm sure some of you good Catholics are fine w/ alter boy action but i find it quite disturbing.
Senator Obama supports comprehensive sex education that is age-appropriate.[1] He is a co-sponsor of the Responsible Education About Life (REAL) Act, which would provide funding for comprehensive, medically accurate sexuality education.
ˇSenator Obama is also a co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, which is a package of legislation that seeks to prevent unintended pregnancy and increase access to comprehensive contraceptive services and information.
ˇSenator Obama firmly opposes federal funding for abstinence-only-until-marriage programs[2] and has stated that its the right thing to do to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools.[3]
ˇHe supports sex education for younger ages, but only if it is age-appropriate, and has indicated that his position is based on the fact that age-appropriate comprehensive sex education includes such topics as learning the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching to educate young children on what to do should they ever be faced with an abusive situation.[4]
I don't see anything wrong with introducing sex ed early. I remember when I learned about sex, I was about that age (around 1st-2nd grade). Someone at school mention "SEX" and I ask my mother what it was. At first she was like WTF, but continued to explained what it was. She knew that if she didn't explain it then, I would of learned about it somewhere else, since that was already the topic of some of the kid's minds.
The point is, I agree kids develop at different rates, but what if your kid encounters another kid that's more developed? The younger someone is, the easier it is to influence them. So I'm for educating the young about sex correctly (maybe not 5 year olds, but you get my point).
Jaime again you didn't answer my question... you said he sent this to the media as his outline then you posted an ABC link... where is is on ABC site that he sent this in and this is his proposed outline?
Senator McCain signed a letter in June 2007 to Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee Max Baucus and Ranking Member Charles Grassley supporting a straight-forward reauthorization of the Title V abstinence-only-until-marriage program and the continued distribution of $50 million dollars to programs that are required to teach only abstinence and marriage promotion and that censor important information about condoms and contraception.In July 2006, Senator McCain voted against an amendment which would have invested in comprehensive sexuality education and teen pregnancy prevention initiatives, such as after-school programs for at-risk youth.[10]
ˇ A statement from Senator McCains campaign noted that the Senator strongly opposes efforts by the Democratic-controlled Congress to eliminate abstinence-only sex education classes for school-aged children. Senator McCain believes the correct policy for educating young children on this subject is to promote abstinence as the only safe and responsible alternative. To do otherwise is to send a mixed signal to children that, on the one hand they should not be sexually active, but on the other here is the way to go about it to teach abstinence to children as it is the only truly safe and responsible policy. He is unequivocally opposed to Democrat-led efforts to eliminate federal funding for abstinence-only education in public schools.
No, Paul. Actually, I was the only one that posted the direct links and excerpts from the actual pdf that Obama sent out. So I did answer the question of "source" directly.
Second, yall are talking about two different pieces of legislature. One is what Obama ALREADY tried to get thru in his home state and the other is what he PROPOSES IF he is elected President. Two different things although pretty close to each other in what he wants to happen.
Did you read the entire pdf file of the outline of the curriculum? Read it and tell me that if you still think that 5-8 yr olds should be introduced to masturbation, same sex marriages, STD's, sexual intercourse, and explicit anatomy by the SCHOOL???? As a father of a 9 yr old, I say "no" because I want and AM the one responsible for teaching that to my own children, not the school.
no i didn't read it b/c his name is no where on it not did i find him on site source saying he proposed it. where are the sources you say he sent this pdf to the media as his proposed plan?No, Paul. Actually, I was the only one that posted the direct links and excerpts from the actual pdf that Obama sent out. So I did answer the question of "source" directly.
Second, yall are talking about two different pieces of legislature. One is what Obama ALREADY tried to get thru in his home state and the other is what he PROPOSES IF he is elected President. Two different things although pretty close to each other in what he wants to happen.
Did you read the entire pdf file of the outline of the curriculum? Read it and tell me that if you still think that 5-8 yr olds should be introduced to masturbation, same sex marriages, STD's, sexual intercourse, and explicit anatomy by the SCHOOL???? As a father of a 9 yr old, I say "no" because I want and AM the one responsible for teaching that to my own children, not the school.
The problem is that a lot of parents aren't teaching this kind of stuff to their kids and the gov't can't force the parents to teach it to them. I think that in order to be a productive adult in our society there are certain things you have to know
what money is and how it is used
look both ways when you cross the street
basic personal cleanliness
how babies are made
what STD's are and how they can be prevented
If parents aren't teaching this stuff to kids (and most of them aren't) who will? No matter who you are, Oil compant CEO or bagger at Wal-Mart you need to know about STD's and pregnancy prevention.
While I agree there are basics everyone should know, there is a basic problem with brain development. At 5 yrs old, it is humanly impossible to comprehend some concepts that you or I find "basic", i.e. sex. At that age, their brains aren't physically developed enough to understand a lot of things. So why not just teach them calculus or trig too???? Because they wouldn't understand it, right? How is this any different? There are certain developmental levels everyone has to go thru before growing up and maturing. So no matter how many times you sit down a 5 yr old and explain....."this penis goes in that vagina, stir, and VOILA....babies are made" they will only look at you and say. I mean, everyone should know how to drive, right? What about just going ahead and starting them out on that at 5 yrs old too? Why not? What about balancing a check book? We all should know how to do that too, right? Why not teach them that?.....for the same reasons that sex ed. at that age is inappropriate (sp?).....they CAN'T comprehend it properly.
Agreed on teaching it that early is not just unnecessary but it is also something they just don;t need to know. I think i was around 8 when i fully got what it is.
For you're reading pleasure Bill SB009 that Obama supported
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/full...Sess=&Session=
14 education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV AIDS.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
question wasn't that he is for EDUCATION for k-12 it was the curriculum he is for. read my quoted Obama post.
Yeah, I posted that earlier. The part you quoted was the outline of the program and does not go into detail about what parts will be taught to what grades, really none of the legislation does, they leave it to the local school boards to decide. It just says that kids will have all that info by the time they are in grade 12.
You must have also missed this part:
23 (9) Course material and instruction shall discuss
24 and provide for the development of positive communication
25 skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid
26 unwanted sexual activity.
27 (10) Course material and instruction shall
28 emphasize that the pupil has the power to control
29 personal behavior. Pupils shall be encouraged to base
30 their actions on reasoning, self-discipline, sense of
31 responsibility, self-control, and ethical considerations,
32 such as respect for oneself and others.
And this one:
and whenever such
15 courses of instruction are provided in any of grades K 6
16 through 12, then such courses also shall include age
17 appropriate instruction on the prevention of sexually
18 transmitted infections, including the prevention,
19 transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. However, no pupil shall
20 be required to take or participate in any family life class
21 or course on HIV AIDS instruction if his parent or guardian
22 submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or
23 participate in such course or program shall not be reason for
24 suspension or expulsion of such pupil.
I did see it but still think that at that age it's up to the parents.Yeah, I posted that earlier. The part you quoted was the outline of the program and does not go into detail about what parts will be taught to what grades, really none of the legislation does, they leave it to the local school boards to decide. It just says that kids will have all that info by the time they are in grade 12.
You must have also missed this part:
23 (9) Course material and instruction shall discuss
24 and provide for the development of positive communication
25 skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid
26 unwanted sexual activity.
27 (10) Course material and instruction shall
28 emphasize that the pupil has the power to control
29 personal behavior. Pupils shall be encouraged to base
30 their actions on reasoning, self-discipline, sense of
31 responsibility, self-control, and ethical considerations,
32 such as respect for oneself and others.
And this one:
and whenever such
15 courses of instruction are provided in any of grades K 6
16 through 12, then such courses also shall include age
17 appropriate instruction on the prevention of sexually
18 transmitted infections, including the prevention,
19 transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. However, no pupil shall
20 be required to take or participate in any family life class
21 or course on HIV AIDS instruction if his parent or guardian
22 submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or
23 participate in such course or program shall not be reason for
24 suspension or expulsion of such pupil.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
thats why they have a OPT OUT ga has it b/c i remember kids having to do other sh!t while we had sex ed - they also separated boys/girls for these classes. my first sex ed was in 8th grade and i started having sex in 10th - i'm sure it gets worse each year.
my senior year in HS i got to watch the MIRACLE OF LIFE - if they showed that to middle school kids they would never have sexit is one of the most disturbing vids i have ever seen in my life.
Again though I think that programs like this simply offer parents an escape route for not teaching their kids the values needed to navigate our world today. Besides programs like this simply make the government bigger and isn't that part of the problem.thats why they have a OPT OUT ga has it b/c i remember kids having to do other sh!t while we had sex ed - they also separated boys/girls for these classes. my first sex ed was in 8th grade and i started having sex in 10th - i'm sure it gets worse each year.
my senior year in HS i got to watch the MIRACLE OF LIFE - if they showed that to middle school kids they would never have sex
Last edited by AlanŽ; 09-17-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: spelling
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
We need programs that hold people accountable for providing correct and science based information. If I had someone responsible for teaching sex-ed putting in videos and leaving the classroom on my watch they would be out of a job.
Its sad that the education policies we already have are being so poorly executed. All those books the state has as "required reading," well... we watched a lot of videos and movies and did very little reading. Some people I graduated High School with can barely even read. Out of the 50% of kids who didn't drop out about half had to take the graduation test twice
Keep sex ed like it has been, parents should do the most stuff. Putting it in kindergarten is almost freaky. I do know more then likely only 2% of kids are going to believe and remember everything taught in sex ed. It's not like kids will stop having sex.
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