What does it take for an EF to run 13s

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Originally Posted by mumbles

that took you a while for someone that is so sure of hisself. i guess google told you, you were wrong. hury go read some more magazines b/c that seems to be the only place that you get your info from.

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http://www.theoldone.com/articles/d%...ilding%5Ftips/

There used to be an article in this section on why the D has less intereference than a B series... this was Dec of 1998 when I 1st started playing w/ heavy spray on D blocks seriously. It looks like this section has been deleted or moved somewhere else. It DOES stand that the D is an interference motor... but w/out the article I lack "proof" (you guys like proof here... LOL) of how it's less of an interference motor than the B. I remember printing it out and I think I may still have it, but I may not. Just want every1 on the board to know that I did NOT forget, and I was wrong by saying it's a NI motor. Unlike some people I do not mind admitting to the masses when I am wrong. I'm still not gonna be happy till I find the article though... LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BTEC

THERE U HAVE IT FOLKS, MIKE JAWNZ, BABY J AND 1CIVIC KNOWS WHAT THE DEAL IS. I SUGGEST U OTHER FUCKS TRY NOT TO FIND OUT THE HARD WAY BC THE WAY I TEACH ENVOLVES PAIN AND LOTS OF EMBARRASMENT. DO URSELF A FAVOR AND DNT TEST ME.

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Yeah BTEC is the Man.. :king: ...

BTW, the link I posted is just the beginning. They have some HOTT articles in their archive. Not a bad place to get smart, or get a better idea of engine-building and machining.

**smoke bomb**

**runs away to find the interference write-ups**

LOL

What does it take for an EF to run 13's....

NO REBUILDIG....

just 13's will be GSR.

good lowend capeable of 12's and spanking alot of other cars....H22.

I still think H22 is the way to go even though its a bit more indepth. if properly installed and driven...it'll run alot faster...

want to keep the h22 stock but got a $1000+ to spend... nitrous and ITR tranny or if you can find it.... Accord Type R Tranny.

this is my opinion and i think it would be best... I'm pretty biased :D


oh and btw..i dont build motors..i build PC's / servers BUWWHWHHW..well..i should say i dont...i only do mine with alot of help from peter and danny. i hve master mechanic peter build it for me.... he is one though....he was a mechanic at Ford for years....

SLOW EF

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/La...rrys_Civic.htm

a b16 on a 75 shot with a jdm s1 tranny and tires will do mid to low 13.

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/d16a%5Fhead/ ACTUALLY THIS is the section where it used to be. FUCK I can't believe it's not here!

Peter is in the wrong business, MUSTANGS FTW!!

1000ft/lbs of TQ at IDLE LOL

Endyns website is shut down.

^^ linx work just fine for me.

Having run a SOHC turbo setup for over 2 years i couldnt recommend going any other route. Im not saying that b-series arent good, but there are many points to consider when it comes to sohc turbo..

-No need to buy motor mounts
-TORQUE! Its not uncommon for sohc turbos to dyno similar hp/tq numbers.
-Cost of engines
-Direct bolt in with some wiring depending on model

I ran my turbo setup for 4-5 mos on my d15b2 with over 145k miles and finally retired it once the rings were worn out. I then put in a used d16z6 and drove it daily (100 miles/day for over a year) for nearly 2 years, boosting between 7-12psi daily, and abused the heck out of it. It hurt many feelings on the highway and i beat on it hard in the mtns.. it was a quick and fun car.

They key to sohc turbo is 1) tuning and 2) recognizing the limits. Ive personally known several people putting down 200-240whp with a good tune and have the motors last. Run the hack @ 12psi and your sohc's ringlands will cry.

^^ An idea I pushed early in the thread but was flamed for. So I take it that you are not voting for this:

---VVVVV---

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Originally Posted by BABY J

So uhhh, yeah halfwitt... Like we all said and agreed upon:

** motor from a 72 Ford Pinto (must be the wagon)
** tinted windows
** Cobb County Schools school-bus tranny (or Dekalb, try Cobb 1st)
** 99 Si wheels
** convert to AWD
and you're in the 13s.

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I thought it was doable. Oh well. :)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Vteckidd

if you know anything about an h22 , then you would know why you dont do it in an EF, an you can BARELY do it for $5000.

1) H22s are cable shifters, NOT LINKAGE
2)THERE ARE NO MOTOR MOUNTS AVAILABLE FOR AN H22 INTO A CRX, custom are neccesary, an you must weld the tranny mount on, unless you do a H series with B series adapter plate.
3) Yes, its a shoehorn to get an H22 into an EF, firewall barely clears, its nearly impossible to get the hood to shut.
4) the alternator on the H22 stick out RIGHT BY THE DRIVER SIDE HEADLIGHT, a custom bracker an belt must be used, unless you reomve your headlight, which makes it a non street car.
5) you must convert to OBD1, there is nor OBD0 ECU that will run an H22 properly, they have EGR, secondariy butterflies, the wiring doesnt ever come CLOSE to plug an play

the sheer amount of labor involved is EXPENSIVE. an its not worth it when you can do an GSR that WILL bolt in with a $500 mount kit

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http://www.explicitspeedperformance.net/

A lil more info for ya HALFWIT

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Originally Posted by EXPLICITSPEEDPERFORMANCE

... I have owned a B series crx and I would say that it is the same or better at handling...

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This is where I call BS. Just b/c you "learn" to "tolerate" and "anticipate" your cars handling does NOT mean it handles great. W/ the nice (yet not overkill) suspension setup he has, I will say a B swap would KILL this car in the handling dept... I will DEF push more w/ the H.... no way around it. My Spec V torque steers like a MUTHA FUCKA (they do stock at 153 WHP, so imagine the same car at 240+ WHP) but over the years I've learned to anticipate it and I call it "normal". I REALLY do not notice it anymore yet I make subconcious adjustments everytime I floor it. I would bet that a road course, slalom, or taking stock measurements w/ cornerweighting will prove to this guy the the B EF will outhandle the H EF all day.

MAYBE in an EG handling changes are less noticeable between the B and H series. In the CRX though w/ a MANUAL RACK vs PS (EG), I say that the handling is the only part where he is prolly stretching it a bit.

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Originally Posted by BABY J

This is where I call BS. Just b/c you "learn" to "tolerate" and "anticipate" your cars handling does NOT mean it handles great. W/ the nice (yet not overkill) suspension setup he has, I will say a B swap would KILL this car in the handling dept... I will DEF push more w/ the H.... no way around it. My Spec V torque steers like a MUTHA FUCKA (they do stock at 153 WHP, so imagine the same car at 240+ WHP) but over the years I've learned to anticipate it and I call it "normal". I REALLY do not notice it anymore yet I make subconcious adjustments everytime I floor it. I would bet that a road course, slalom, or taking stock measurements w/ cornerweighting will prove to this guy the the B EF will outhandle the H EF all day.

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It's only like 40lbs differance if i remember correctly, with the right differential and tires any torque steer will go away.

ive never seen an H22 with PS in an EG. i dont think its possible, but ive been wrong before.

I think the handling thing is overexaggerated. I think the H22 is only 60lbs more than a GSR. but, 60lbs is 60lbs.

the motor is only 1 aspect of HANDLING. gearing, suspension, wheels, RPMrange, powerband have alot to do with it. an bottom line is if you run the right shocks, sway bars, and suspension, you can make an H22 handle fine in an EF.

i just do not like the idea of an H in an EF. sorry, just my opinion, if its an EG, well, its much more room to work with, they are obd1, they have mount kits etc.

if you know anything about an h22 , then you would know why you dont do it in an EF, an you can BARELY do it for $5000.

1) H22s are cable shifters, NOT LINKAGE --- true..but easier to install than rods :D

2)THERE ARE NO MOTOR MOUNTS AVAILABLE FOR AN H22 INTO A CRX, custom are neccesary, an you must weld the tranny mount on, unless you do a H series with B series adapter plate.
there are...forgot who... oh and btw thanks BABYJ:goodjob:

3) Yes, its a shoehorn to get an H22 into an EF, firewall barely clears, its nearly impossible to get the hood to shut.
its ok...it clears

4) the alternator on the H22 stick out RIGHT BY THE DRIVER SIDE HEADLIGHT, a custom bracker an belt must be used, unless you reomve your headlight, which makes it a non street car.
any motor swap is fab work...h22 just takes a little more and worth it IMO

5) you must convert to OBD1, there is nor OBD0 ECU that will run an H22 properly, they have EGR, secondariy butterflies, the wiring doesnt ever come CLOSE to plug an play
you can elminate egr by running a chip ECU and use an OBD0 jumper harness


the sheer amount of labor involved is EXPENSIVE. an its not worth it when you can do an GSR that WILL bolt in with a $500 mount kit
Custom EF Civic/Crx 88-91 H22A motor mount kits $449 shipped US
Custom DA 90-93 Integra H22A motor mount kits $449 shipped


H22 swap complete FRONT clip from NADS (local) = $2400
H22 motor mount kit = 449
P28/P72 ECU = 150
Jumper Harness = 100 (or DIY http://diy.prostreetonline.com/howto...p?articleid=40)

axles = 200 brand new or used for $100
_________________________________________________
TOTAL = $3200

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Originally Posted by http://explicitspeedperformance.net/TheEFH22AHowTo.html

It is my daily driver. The car sits on some AGX shocks and Skunk2 coils with a 2" drop. I have 3 1/2" of ground clearance to the oil pan. There is 3/8" clearance from the highest point on the valve cover to the USDM hood. I haven't yet found a bump my car hasn't won. As far as the BS about being too front end heavy, this is not true. It weighs about 35 lbs. more than a GSR maybe less. My car weighed in at 2020 lbs with no driver. I have full faith in my car around corners and turns. I have owned a B series crx and I would say that it is the same or better at handling. My mount kit distributes the motor perfectly. It is very hard to throw up a con with the potential of 200 whp and 150 ft lbs of torque and the engine swap costing half as much as the Type R swap. It puts out more whp and torque. I love the swap and looks OEM!

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side note peter's gsr hatch turbo gutted with cage with him 2300lbs
my hatch with me gutted, turbo, cage, misc tools (my shit breaks LOL)...2315lbs

so without peter in his car= 2115
without me ni my car = 2150
weight difference = 35lbs
maybe difference in gas in tank and bs like that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 93H22ACX

if you know anything about an h22 , then you would know why you dont do it in an EF, an you can BARELY do it for $5000.

1) H22s are cable shifters, NOT LINKAGE --- true..but easier to install than rods :D

2)THERE ARE NO MOTOR MOUNTS AVAILABLE FOR AN H22 INTO A CRX, custom are neccesary, an you must weld the tranny mount on, unless you do a H series with B series adapter plate.
there are...forgot who... oh and btw thanks BABYJ:goodjob:

3) Yes, its a shoehorn to get an H22 into an EF, firewall barely clears, its nearly impossible to get the hood to shut.
its ok...it clears

4) the alternator on the H22 stick out RIGHT BY THE DRIVER SIDE HEADLIGHT, a custom bracker an belt must be used, unless you reomve your headlight, which makes it a non street car.
any motor swap is fab work...h22 just takes a little more and worth it IMO

5) you must convert to OBD1, there is nor OBD0 ECU that will run an H22 properly, they have EGR, secondariy butterflies, the wiring doesnt ever come CLOSE to plug an play
you can elminate egr by running a chip ECU and use an OBD0 jumper harness


the sheer amount of labor involved is EXPENSIVE. an its not worth it when you can do an GSR that WILL bolt in with a $500 mount kit
Custom EF Civic/Crx 88-91 H22A motor mount kits $449 shipped US
Custom DA 90-93 Integra H22A motor mount kits $449 shipped


H22 swap complete FRONT clip from NADS (local) = $2400
H22 motor mount kit = 449
P28/P72 ECU = 150
Jumper Harness = 100 (or DIY http://diy.prostreetonline.com/howto...p?articleid=40)

axles = 200 brand new or used for $100
_________________________________________________
TOTAL = $3200

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Boy you got stock in Honda H22s or something? DAMN!!! LOL. When the LAST h22 block falls into a vat of "metal melter" you are gonna be one sick puppy!! LOL.

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Originally Posted by BABY J

Boy you got stock in Honda H22s or something? DAMN!!! LOL. When the LAST h22 block falls into a vat of "metal melter" you are gonna be one sick puppy!! LOL.

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hahahah.. i'll ask Steph Pop. to build me one if he still remembers how to....tell him to stop drifting

As far as the BS about being too front end heavy, this is not true. It weighs about 35 lbs. more than a GSR maybe less. My car weighed in at 2020 lbs with no driver. I have full faith in my car around corners and turns. I have owned a B series crx and I would say that it is the same or better at handling.


C'mon B. The guy is trying to sell HIS product and HIS line of thinking, of course he will say that. Key word is HE has faith in his car around corners. if I drove a dump truck for a living and got used to it I could tell you that I have full faith in it in corners... that doesn't mean it will outhandle any other car. His quote does NOT prove which setup handles better. My vote is the B... but liek Mike said there are more variables that go into it. W/ the torque increase though, you better believe that ride would be less stable in the twisties when you start stabbing the throttle. I was not posting to get a debate up, just to let 1/2Dick know that he has options. :)

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Originally Posted by speedminded

It's only like 40lbs differance if i remember correctly, with the right differential and tires any torque steer will go away.

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FYI: Torque never "goes away", neither does torque-steer... it is just moved somewhere else in the powerband, or somewhere else in the drivetrain.

http://www.kineda.com/photos/film/huo_yuanjia.jpg

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Originally Posted by BABY J

As far as the BS about being too front end heavy, this is not true. It weighs about 35 lbs. more than a GSR maybe less. My car weighed in at 2020 lbs with no driver. I have full faith in my car around corners and turns. I have owned a B series crx and I would say that it is the same or better at handling.


C'mon B. The guy is trying to sell HIS product and HIS line of thinking, of course he will say that. Key word is HE has faith in his car around corners. if I drove a dump truck for a living and got used to it I could tell you that I have full faith in it in corners... that doesn't mean it will outhandle any other car. His quote does NOT prove which setup handles better. My vote is the B... but liek Mike said there are more variables that go into it. W/ the torque increase though, you better believe that ride would be less stable in the twisties when you start stabbing the throttle. I was not posting to get a debate up, just to let 1/2Dick know that he has options. :)

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alot of others have said same thing...same as myself. it felt fine for me and i had stock suspension.

i dont know...35lbs.... with every swap u should have suspension upgrades and with that it should eliminate possibilities.

alot of h22 guys dont have problems with going around the corners (not the twisties but regular driving...) i mean my friend with a b16 EF hatch had problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babyj

The guy is trying to sell HIS product and HIS line of thinking, of course he will say that. Key word is HE has faith in his car around corners. if I drove a dump truck for a living and got used to it I could tell you that I have full faith in it in corners...

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my point is...ITS PERFERENCES...my opinion is different..yours is different...my way of thinking is the same as his...u might not like it but the next person might like it...thats why there are OPINIONS

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Originally Posted by babyj

that doesn't mean it will outhandle any other car.

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nope it sure doesnt but in my mind its good enough HEHEHHE i just need to make a 90 degree turn out of the 1/4 strip and a left on to my driveway into my garage:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babyj

His quote does NOT prove which setup handles better.

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yep it does not

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babyj

My vote is the B... but liek Mike said there are more variables that go into it. W/ the torque increase though, you better believe that ride would be less stable in the twisties when you start stabbing the throttle. I was not posting to get a debate up, just to let 1/2Dick know that he has options.

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b-series will have more torque steer than the stock motor....h will have more than bserie.
[/QUOTE]


BTW...not debating just pointing some stuff out :goodjob: and i know mike...he knows what he's talking about too LOL...

and ask any of the h22 swap guys..im sure they will tell u its fine.....

where are these custom mounts for $449? i havent seen them.

Yes, best bang for the buck H22. however, i still stand against it in an EF, its not easy at all, i almost did one. I did lots of research on it.

$3200, add at least $1000 for labor(swap, wiring)
weld in mounts, shifter cables, alternaotr

shit adds up, i aint doing it for $700 like a standard B series swap. i wont do it for less than $2000 just because i know what it takes to do one, its no simple by any means. if ISP wants to do it for cheaper thats fine, ill send them over there lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Vteckidd

where are these custom mounts for $449? i havent seen them.

Yes, best bang for the buck H22. however, i still stand against it in an EF, its not easy at all, i almost did one. I did lots of research on it.

$3200, add at least $1000 for labor(swap, wiring)
weld in mounts, shifter cables, alternaotr

shit adds up, i aint doing it for $700 like a standard B series swap. i wont do it for less than $2000 just because i know what it takes to do one, its no simple by any means. if ISP wants to do it for cheaper thats fine, ill send them over there lol

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http://explicitspeedperformance.net/index.html
i cant remember who else made them...fudgeing a


hahah nah man u win on the price mike LOL

i didnt see any mounts on their site. i was checking them out awhile back when i was thinking of doing an H2B. i know they make the alternator relocator

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Originally Posted by BABY J

FYI: Torque never "goes away", neither does torque-steer... it is just moved somewhere else in the powerband, or somewhere else in the drivetrain.

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My torque steer went away...nearly completely after the LSD.

Ha! I said 40lbs differance :)

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Originally Posted by speedminded

My torque steer went away...nearly completely after the LSD.

Ha! I said 40lbs differance :)

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Impossible! :) Torque steer (caused by torque + sub-par driveline) does not GO AWAY. You simply beefed up parts that caused the torque to be transferred somewhere else in the driveline (in this case, the drive wheels). You can't ERASE torque... it is simply xferred somewhere else. ;)

http://www.explicitspeedperformance.net/

here you go mike: EF
http://explicitspeedperformance.net/...s/IMG_1657.jpg

DA:


http://explicitspeedperformance.net/...s/IMG_1701.jpg

Included in the complete kit:

(1) Driver side motor mount

(1) Rear engine mount

(1) Rear chassis mount

(1) Weld in or bolt in passenger side chassis mount

(1) Passenger side motor mount

(1) Alternator upper bracket and bolts

(1) Tensioner bracket for upper (your choice of bracket for either H series or D series alternator)

(1) Clutch cable/hydro conversion bracket

(1) Passenger side chassis new hole template only for 90-93 DA H22A motor mount kit

$449 shipped US

• If you want the Lower H22A Alternator/Tensioner kit for either H or D series alternators instead of the Upper please let us know an additional $20 will be added onto the motor mount kit price.

The Polyurethane 80A on the Durometer scale inserts are easily replaceable unlike most other kits. Choice of black or red insert colors. Powder coating finish is semi gloss black.

btw...have fun at the dyno guys

damn i missed some entertainment to night! lol!

:goodjob: B18C1 (GSR)B18c1 is all i have to say.....:D

DSPORT MAG // OCT 2004// ISSUE #22

Eddy Feldmeier / Union City, CA / A DNR PERFORMANCE BUILD

345 WHP / 11.2 @ 125.70 on 118 OCTANE / .957 RT / 1.686 60FT

VEH INFO:
--> 95 EG
--> 1980 w/o driver (that's a bit less than a stock DX, so they shedded some lbs)
--> LAUNCH RPM: 7000
--> SHIFT RPM: 9000
--> PEAK BOOST: 17PSI @ 5500RPM
--> FUEL 118 OCTANE

ENGINE SPECS
--> D16Z6
--> DISPLACEMENT: 1590CC
--> BORE/STROKE: 75mmbor X 90mmstrk
--> PEAK HP: 347WHP @ 7800
--> PEAK TQ: 258LBS @ 6200
--> DYNO: DYNO JET
--> PISTONS/CR: JE / 9:0:1
--> RODS/ CRANK:
EAGLE RODS
BAL/MICRO POLISHED CRANK

BLOCK MODS:
--> NuFormz Block Guard (unsleeved block)
--> Bal/BluPrntd
MACHINE WORK:
--> DNR PERF
CAMS:
--> CUSTOM WEB CAM RACING
VALVETRAIN:
--> DNR P&P
--> MILLED .30
--> S2 IMANI
-->
FUEL:
--> 720CC
--> BOSCH PUMP
MANAGEMENT:
--> HONDATA S200 (FTW!)
SNAIL:
--> GREDDY T3/T4
--> TIAL 35MM WASTEGATE
--> GREDDY TYPER BOV
--> SPEARCO 24x9x3 INTERCOOLER
EX:
--> REVHARD EX MANI

MISC:
--> STOCK DX TRANNY, MSD DIGITAL 6, GRND CNTRL 550lb Springs (frnt). S2 Drag Launch (rears), ACT 6PUCK, LIGHTENED STOCK FLYWHEEL,


** I do not call this "magazine racing", b/c there is no use foraging new ground on a $100 motor when there is already a potent blueprint to build from. I kinda did that w/ my Spec V and while I am satisfied (and it's no knock on Sunbelt), there was quite a bit of trial and error which is directly proportional to COST. Good luck 1/2wit and I gotta fresh Z6 when you wanna get started (SHAMELESS PLUG).

yeah thats a Z6 with RODS AN PISTONS. still out of his budget unless he does all the work himself.

i've seen stock CX civic eg's run 13's with nitrous. stripped out from drivers seat back, intake, custom exhaust. 50shot and a good driver.

do a b16 swap the total was only like 2800 and take the extra cash and do internal or boost thats my opinion but the sohc + spray is fun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLR

i've seen stock CX civic eg's run 13's with nitrous. stripped out from drivers seat back, intake, custom exhaust. 50shot and a good driver.

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A stock 8 valve CX with a 50 shot? Running 13s? I'm not sure I can believe that.

^^ not sure on the non-vtec motors. But I DO know that a fresh fully bolted Z6 on a wet 100 shot + Hondata and DRs will, and that will be NOWHERE near busting his budget. 50 on a stock CX (even fully-bolted) doesn't say "13 second capable" in my mind though. I dunno.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BABY J

^^ not sure on the non-vtec motors. But I DO know that a fresh fully bolted Z6 on a wet 100 shot + Hondata and DRs will, and that will be NOWHERE near busting his budget. 50 on a stock CX (even fully-bolted) doesn't say "13 second capable" in my mind though. I dunno.

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lol im with you i dont see a cx doing 13 sec pass on only 50 noway . or prove me wrong . always open to learning the things;)

not a legit time but street raced a 13 sec rex (high 13)with my 89 dx hatch with a DOHC zc and 65 shot si trans ,took him by half a car 2x maybe he sand bagging or not . but i assumed i could brake 13's int he track never did it though( never assume:doh: )

i did do a 1/8 mile in Irwindale speedway in cali . 9.2 hope i can find the time slip :)