Tim Tebow 5-1 as a starter.

[Vteckidd]

I refuse to ignore everything i've watched with my own eyes over the last 6 years just because of people's opinions of Tebow's mechanics. The "experts" said he wouldnt get drafted as a QB. He did. The "experts" said he wouldnt get drafted in the 1st round. He did. The "experts" said he would get killed if he ran in the NFL like he did @ Florida. He's still alive. The "experts" said he would never win in the NFL. He is.

So, with all do respect, me and the "experts" are just gonna have to agree to disagree.

I dont remember anyone saying he wasnt gonna go first round. ESPN consistently had him picked to be in the 1st round and IIRC it was 50/50 whether he would go as a QB or not.

Im sorry but you are wrong, hes a qb hes responsible for making his teamates better, which he has , no one is arguing that. But you cant escape his mechanics. Hes incapable of throwing passes that other QBs of much higher caliber (and who have SUPERBOWL RINGS) are capable of doing. He cant get rid of the ball if under pressure FAST, he cant throw simple screen passes, or make quick throws down field and its BECAUSE OF HIS MECHANICS. Have you even WATCHED NFL football the last 10 years? You cannot ARGUE what im saying its just flatout true.

Tebow AS A QB lacks velocity, accuracy, and range. If he had it, he wouldnt be running the option style offense.

I think the option has helped the broncos however because it keeps them from turning the ball over, and their defense is doing well. the #1 position on any football team is the QB. I do not think there is any organization out there right now if starting from square 1 would pick Tim Tebow as their starter over Orton or anyone else.

For the record, i made a $100 bet when they benched Orton and put tebow in. I made a bet with a coworker who is a DIE HARD eagles fan that Tim Tebow would win MORE GAMES (with a 5 game handicap of NOT PLAYING) than Michael VIck does and his $100 million dollar contract. Im confident i will win that bet. So im not a Tebow Hater.

I just do not see him with a future as an elite QB. I think most people agree with that. If your goal is to win a superbowl, he is simply not good enough. ill be the first to same i was proven wrong if he does that.

Just like his team is mediocre, Vick had the DREAM TEAM and still cant win. thats why football is so great, anyone can do anything

[Sinfix_15]

I dont remember anyone saying he wasnt gonna go first round. ESPN consistently had him picked to be in the 1st round and IIRC it was 50/50 whether he would go as a QB or not.

Im sorry but you are wrong, hes a qb hes responsible for making his teamates better, which he has , no one is arguing that. But you cant escape his mechanics. Hes incapable of throwing passes that other QBs of much higher caliber (and who have SUPERBOWL RINGS) are capable of doing. He cant get rid of the ball if under pressure FAST, he cant throw simple screen passes, or make quick throws down field and its BECAUSE OF HIS MECHANICS. Have you even WATCHED NFL football the last 10 years? You cannot ARGUE what im saying its just flatout true.

Tebow AS A QB lacks velocity, accuracy, and range. If he had it, he wouldnt be running the option style offense.

I think the option has helped the broncos however because it keeps them from turning the ball over, and their defense is doing well. the #1 position on any football team is the QB. I do not think there is any organization out there right now if starting from square 1 would pick Tim Tebow as their starter over Orton or anyone else.

For the record, i made a $100 bet when they benched Orton and put tebow in. I made a bet with a coworker who is a DIE HARD eagles fan that Tim Tebow would win MORE GAMES (with a 5 game handicap of NOT PLAYING) than Michael VIck does and his $100 million dollar contract. Im confident i will win that bet. So im not a Tebow Hater.

I just do not see him with a future as an elite QB. I think most people agree with that. If your goal is to win a superbowl, he is simply not good enough. ill be the first to same i was proven wrong if he does that.

Just like his team is mediocre, Vick had the DREAM TEAM and still cant win. thats why football is so great, anyone can do anything

Tebow made all the throws at Florida. His mechanics needed tweaked, not overhauled. Nothing is wrong with his velocity or arm strength. He needs a faster release and better accuracy. This same argument was had when Tebow got to Florida. Those 88 Tds and 60+% competitions were never supposed to happen. This argument didnt start when Tebow joined the Broncos, been hearing the same shit for 6 years...... over those 6 years, pretty safe to say Tebow's record speaks volumes about his critics.

Tebow will never play in the NFL as any position other than a QB, he will be successful. Enjoy the show.

[Vteckidd]

Tebow made all the throws at Florida. His mechanics needed tweaked, not overhauled. Nothing is wrong with his velocity or arm strength. He needs a faster release and better accuracy. This same argument was had when Tebow got to Florida. Those 88 Tds and 60+% competitions were never supposed to happen. This argument didnt start when Tebow joined the Broncos, been hearing the same shit for 6 years...... over those 6 years, pretty safe to say Tebow's record speaks volumes about his critics.

Cant really argue with you because you keep changing the argument. You cant compare COLLEGE FOOTBALL with NFL. What MOST QBs can get away with in COLLEGE they cant do in the NFL. So, while he was succesful in college, that doesnt mean shit in the NFL. The games is 10 times faster in the NFL, which is why he doesnt pass. Hes not good enough. My point is i dont think he ever will be good enough because i dont think the protection will be there for him to be good to give him the time in the pocket he needs.

That, and hes release is far too slow. Hes incapable of running a slant or sideout play because it takes too long for him to do it, it telegraphs to the opposition what hes doing. Which is WHY HE RUNS THE OPTION. The problem is in college you can get away with running a non under center offense, the NFL is much faster than that. always has been.

Again, hes won some games, but longterm, if YOURE satisfied with being a 7-9 or 9-7 team, that barely makes the playoffs, or doesnt make the playoffs then Tebow is your guy. If you want to win a SUPERBOWL, hes not the man, IMO. And he hasnt done anything to change that opinion, beating a few subpar teams doesnt make me feel all tingly.

Tebow will never play in the NFL as any position other than a QB, he will be successful. Enjoy the show.

That is yet to be seen, he may not have a choice. He will be succesful , but it also depends how you measure success.

If im wrong ill be the first to say it

[Vteckidd]

And im sorry watch the last 5 games again, hes throwing some wounded ducks out there. The final drive against the jets he throws that 29 yard pass that almost hit the dirt and that was bad coverage on the Jets, not a great "tebow throw".

His throwing leaves A LOT to be desired at the NFL level

[Sinfix_15]

And im sorry watch the last 5 games again, hes throwing some wounded ducks out there. The final drive against the jets he throws that 29 yard pass that almost hit the dirt and that was bad coverage on the Jets, not a great "tebow throw".

His throwing leaves A LOT to be desired at the NFL level

I only saw 1 bad throw vs the chargers. He does struggle with the step and throw short timing routes, but who says you have to have that to win? Does a team who can run the ball as well as the Broncos have been need the ability to execute 3-5 yard passes? Also, i'm acknowledging that he struggles with that NOW, not accepting that he will struggle with it forever. Tebow throws the deep ball just fine, he throws just fine in play action or any other slow developing play where he has time to throw. He struggles with the under center short yardage timing routes. Is that really enough for you to completely rule him out? i think its more of a football education thing than it is mechanics. I dont buy into the mechanics talk because like i said, i watched him throw 88 TDs in college. 90% of those throws looked the same as any other elite QB. Tebow is learning a system and hes learning a system with WRs who are also still leaning the system. Timing routes are more about knowing when and where the WR is going to be than they are being able to actually throw the ball. For a QB with less than 10 starts, 0 training camps, i dont expect Tebow to be hitting the timing routes.

Look at the Patriots. Chad Johnson is one of the best WRs in football. Him and Brady cant get on the same page. Not because Brady cant throw or Johnson cant catch. Brady is the best ever and Johnson was one of the best WRs in recent memory. It's because the patriots run a lot of precise timing routes and Johnson's playbook education isnt up to Brady's standard.

So on Denver you have that aspect of it both ways, you have a young QB who is still learning routes and you also have young WRs who are still learning routes. Chemistry isnt developed overnight. The reason Tebow is more accurate throwing 40 yard passes than he is 10 yard timing routes is in his mind, not his arm. The same person who originally evaluated Tebow's throwing mechanics has said that most of his errors are already gone. His throwing motion needed tweaked, not overhauled. His release never had anything to do with finding his targets. Low release effects short passes over the defensive line's hands and slow release makes the ball more traceable and effects your ability to throw into the window on timing routes. Thats the only thing wrong with Tebow. He's not a rebuilding project, he needs tweaked. He MAY be a slow learner when it comes to these things, but his ability to move the football on the ground and lead a team should earn him the extra time to do so.

Tebow may very well be on his way to being the best rushing QB ever, even if he never develops the ability to throw short timing routes, i think thats a reasonable trade. If all 32 NFL teams are sitting out there waiting for more Tom Bradys to come out college, good luck to them.

[Sinfix_15]

side note, Tebow's instincts are to throw safe. Look at all his missed throws, he almost always throws down and away. Hes not out there sailing balls over and behind wrs that get intercepted. There's a reason hes thrown less than 20 interceptions his entire life. His ball security is no fluke.



I like arguing with you. You're easily one of the most intelligent posters on IA. I'm prepared to start watching Broncos games with pen and pad in hand, critiquing every single play if needed!!!!

[Vteckidd]

i admire your passion for your team, and its fun debating with you haha

I really hope he changed my opinions long term because i like Tebow, and i admire him as an athlete and a role model. He is a good guy, and its hard to root against that

[quickdodge®]

I like arguing with you. You're easily one of the most intelligent posters on IA.

Mike is second only to me, lolol!

i admire your passion for your team,

Correction. His passion for Tebow. I believe he is more of a Tebow fan than a Bronco fan. If Tebow were traded to the Panthers, I believe Sinfix would follow. And I admire it a little bit. Sinfix, I honestly think you're a little too much of a fan of the dude. It just seems to be creepy to me to be hooked on to a person like that. But you like who you like and stick to your guns and do a little research on it and there's props to you for that, dude.

I really hope he changed my opinions long term because i like Tebow, and i admire him as an athlete and a role model. He is a good guy, and its hard to root against that

His personal, off-the-field demeanor is probably the only reason I would not want to see him fail. Although it's reported that a lot of Bronco players don't like playing with him, they do say they admire his work ethic. If he were someone like Suh, I'd love to see him crash and burn. So props to Tebow as a person as well. Later, QD.

[Sinfix_15]

Correction. His passion for Tebow. I believe he is more of a Tebow fan than a Bronco fan. If Tebow were traded to the Panthers, I believe Sinfix would follow. And I admire it a little bit. Sinfix, I honestly think you're a little too much of a fan of the dude. It just seems to be creepy to me to be hooked on to a person like that. But you like who you like and stick to your guns and do a little research on it and there's props to you for that, dude.

I'm a die hard Gators fan, being a fan of Tebow comes with that. My friends tell me they would call my mom a whore before insulting Florida.

[Sinfix_15]

Chargers eat up that defense like it wasnt even there. Chargers win by 13.

until next week...... when i make the 6-1 thread.

[BanginJimmy]

until next week...... when i make the 6-1 thread.

Your obsession really isnt healthy.


Broncos are playing Minnesota this week. Only the Colts are a worse football team.

[Sinfix_15]

Your obsession really isnt healthy.


Broncos are playing Minnesota this week. Only the Colts are a worse football team.

The haters put in a lot more time and effort than the fans.

What happened to those chargers walking up and down the field and beating the broncos by 14?

[BanginJimmy]

What happened to those chargers walking up and down the field and beating the broncos by 14?

I gave the chargers too much credit, I got exactly what I expected from the Broncos.

You have to remember though, it isnt Tebow that is winning these games. He has led his offense to more than 17 points only twice. An outstanding game against the Raiders in which he led the offense to 31 points and another where he led the offense to 18 in OT. The credit really goes to the defense. During this current streak the defense is letting up a full TD a game less and even that is skewed higher because of the beating they took against Detroit. The offense is actually scoring LESS points with Tebow at the helm than they were with Orton running the offense. The offense with Orton was averaging 21 ppg, with Tebow, 19.6. Those numbers do not factor in defensive and special team TD's.

[Sinfix_15]

I gave the chargers too much credit, I got exactly what I expected from the Broncos.

You have to remember though, it isnt Tebow that is winning these games. He has led his offense to more than 17 points only twice. An outstanding game against the Raiders in which he led the offense to 31 points and another where he led the offense to 18 in OT. The credit really goes to the defense. During this current streak the defense is letting up a full TD a game less and even that is skewed higher because of the beating they took against Detroit. The offense is actually scoring LESS points with Tebow at the helm than they were with Orton running the offense. The offense with Orton was averaging 21 ppg, with Tebow, 19.6. Those numbers do not factor in defensive and special team TD's.

Far argument, but the offense also contributes to that defense. The broncos time of possession is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY up with Tebow. Statistically....(when theyre on the field) the Broncos defense is pretty much the same defense that Orton had STATISTICALLY. Difference is, now when the Broncos defense allows the other team to move the ball 30-35 yards, theyre at midfield like theyre suppose to be and not in the redzone already because of a turnover. Lot of different factors you can add up to prove whatever point youre trying to make.

I read an article about Harvard students taking on the Broncos stats as a project to explain why theyre better with Tebow. The conclusion they come up with was that its a "statistical miracle" that nothing in the numbers supports any trend that would lead you to expect what is happening to happen. Even though the defense is getting about the same amount of stops and the offense is scoring almost the same as before, its always at the perfect time. Defense always gets the stop when its most crucial and offense always seems to score when its most crucial. who knows...... angels in the backfield?

[BanginJimmy]

angels in the backfield?

This is pretty much what it is. The defense is playing MUCH better and that is a large part of the reason the Broncos are winning. What the Bronocs are doing on offense is playing keep away. They limit the reps the opposing offense gets and puts added pressure on them to score on every possession. That leads to more aggressive play calling, which leds to more 3 and outs and more turnovers. 3 and outs and turnovers lead to better field position, which is a big part of why the broncos are kicking so many FG's.

[boosted347]

This is pretty much what it is. The defense is playing MUCH better and that is a large part of the reason the Broncos are winning. What the Bronocs are doing on offense is playing keep away. They limit the reps the opposing offense gets and puts added pressure on them to score on every possession. That leads to more aggressive play calling, which leds to more 3 and outs and more turnovers. 3 and outs and turnovers lead to better field position, which is a big part of why the broncos are kicking so many FG's.

And this didn't start until tebow took over the reins...so you can say tebow is a contributing factor to the broncos winning

[BanginJimmy]

And this didn't start until tebow took over the reins...so you can say tebow is a contributing factor to the broncos winning

No one ever said he wasnt a factor. He is not the reason though. The reason the Broncos are winning is because the defense is playing so much better. The offense is scoring LESS points than they did with Orton at the reigns.

[BanginJimmy]

Broncos are scoring 16.8 PPG on offense over the 5 game stretch that Tebow has been starting. More than half of their points are coming on FG's as they have only scored 8 offensive TD's in that 5 game stretch, 4 of which came against the Raiders.

[boosted347]

No one ever said he wasnt a factor. He is not the reason though. The reason the Broncos are winning is because the defense is playing so much better. The offense is scoring LESS points than they did with Orton at the reigns.

He (Tebow) is a motivator, he is motivating the defense hence why they are winning now...its not tebows fault that he doesnt have to score 30+ pts to win a game like brady and the pats do because their degense sucks

[BanginJimmy]

Von Miller is out today against the Vikings. That is a HUGE hit, especially for their pass rush.

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[BanginJimmy]

He (Tebow) is a motivator, he is motivating the defense hence why they are winning now...its not tebows fault that he doesnt have to score 30+ pts to win a game like brady and the pats do because their degense sucks

He needs to start motivating his offense to score some points then. 17 points will not win you a playoff game.

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[Sinfix_15]

He needs to start motivating his offense to score some points then. 17 points will not win you a playoff game.

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you will see points today

[boosted347]

He needs to start motivating his offense to score some points then. 17 points will not win you a playoff game.

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It will when your defense holds them to 14

[Sinfix_15]

so far the Vikings are "broncoing" the Broncos. Defense cant get off the field. Early turnovers didnt help. Broncos should have been more aggressive early and put this viking team away, now they have momentum

[Vteckidd]

Highlights I saw def looked like improvements. Passing tds was good, and 35 points is good.

Still barely beating Minnesota though with a FG.

Next week vs bears will be interesting.

[BanginJimmy]

Next week vs bears will be interesting.

No it wont. Caleb Hanie is terrible. He has no business in the NFL. With the defense being forced to pitch a shutout to win a game they will have to take more chances, which means more chances at a big play for their opponent.