Brakes/Tires/Suspension/Chassis (performance)

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Originally Posted by Konstantin

Can anyone reccomend a good set of struts? I'm looking for something very aggresive. I do not mind ride comfort loss at all.
I've heard and seen very good things from Tokico Illuminas. Thats kinda pricey, but you DO get what you pay for...I'm thinking before my engine build I'll be doing suspension.
Also, I was going to do a package deal withthe Illuminas and TOkicos 1.5" lowering springs. FOr 1.5" drop, what would you guys suggest?

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If you're only going to see a 1.5" drop you'll be fine with tokico.

however, you want something VERY agressive, be prepared to write some checks for larger amounts. Koni Sports are a much more agressive damper, and can be had for as cheap as 460 brand new shipped off of HT. OR... if you're lucky enough to find a set that's blown, you can have them rebuilt, or do it yourself for MUCH cheaper.

I promise you'll like the konis better than the illuminas.
-jonathan

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Originally Posted by 90_ZC_HATCH

jonathan, you just google "prop valve" or something to make urself look smart?

lolol

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:) negative maine. I just remember a lot of stuff from when i was researching about rear disc conversions on HT. lol

I had that chart in my pics on my comp. Just thought i'd toss it in for a visual for the difference in brake pressures. :goodjob:

-jonathan

Thank you for the info. So right now I have a 4040 valve.
Are you saying that under braking it should give equal pressure to front and rear?

And by switching to a 3540, will that fix the problem?
I'm running stock front disc brakes, and DA back discs.

And real quick, the stock valve for a 91 hatch dx is a 3040 right?

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

Thank you for the info. So right now I have a 4040 valve.
Are you saying that under braking it should give equal pressure to front and rear?

And by switching to a 3540, will that fix the problem?
I'm running stock front disc brakes, and DA back discs.

And real quick, the stock valve for a 91 hatch dx is a 3040 right?

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your 4040 valve is the correct one to have for your setup man. And you are correct in saying it would apply equal pressure to both the front and rear discs. However, the rear engage later in the braking process, thus stabilizing the car.

I'm not very familiar with EFs yet, i've only had mine a month... but i believe the stock prop valve is a 2040 for drum brakes.

-jonathan

4040 is not the right prop valve to use with stock front calipers...

And Konstantin, Tokico Illuminas will do you fine. Koni Sports if you're feeling baller.

I've got a 3540 valve on the way. I'll see if that does better, but right now the brakes are really lacking.



StraightSix: What Valve are you running?
I read all the posts again and realized you have stock fronts and swapped backs. So I just have to ask.

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Originally Posted by jfrolang

4040 is not the right prop valve to use with stock front calipers...

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please explain

I am using a 4040 valve, sk7 booster, and st7 mc on my stock Si brakes.

How is this not the best setup? Front piston caliper size remained at 53mm across the board until 1993. The only difference is the brake rotor itself which is 9.5" for a civic DX, and 10.25 for a DA.

This prop valve setup will cause his brakes to engage harder, and at a faster rate.
-jonathan

Well I can't explain why its wrong, but I know something is.

I had a master mechanic(my father) check all the parts and lines and he said nothing was wrong, broken, or out of place. He then took it for a test drive and almost crashed because he thought the brakes were going to grab. He luckily grabbed the E-brake and stopped in time.
He's still kinda mad at me. LOL

I get on here and read that you guys say the valve needs to be swapped.
Which I'm doing, I should have it in less than 5 days. I'll know better then.

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

Well I can't explain why its wrong, but I know something is.

I had a master mechanic(my father) check all the parts and lines and he said nothing was wrong, broken, or out of place. He then took it for a test drive and almost crashed because he thought the brakes were going to grab. He luckily grabbed the E-brake and stopped in time.
He's still kinda mad at me. LOL

I get on here and read that you guys say the valve needs to be swapped.
Which I'm doing, I should have it in less than 5 days. I'll know better then.

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Even your stock valve should proportion the brakes enough to stop man.

This might sound like a really dumb question, but did you make sure to bleed your brakes correctly? How is the condition of the fluid?

If your car isn't stopping at all (which is what it sounds like), then you may be overlooking something really simple. :D

just tryin to help you bro
-jonathan

Theres more than enough pressure to stop the car, its just not good enough for me to trust them like I did(before swap).

And yes I did bleed them right. I even had them re-bleed by my dad just to be sure. And nothing changed. The fluid is DOT 3, brand new.

I'm willing to bet its the valve.

And ya I know you are, if I sound angry its just due to the fact I'm having this problem and I apologize.:ninja:

Just some quick thoughts, no disrespect intended. I'm most likely going to sound like an idiot.

Why are you running a 4040 prop on stock crx brakes?
I thought the CRX si w/ rear discs came with a 3540 valve.

and

If your MC and booster are changed then that might be why your not having this same problem. They might just be pushing harder then stock ones.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning.

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

Just some quick thoughts, no disrespect intended. I'm most likely going to sound like an idiot.

Why are you running a 4040 prop on stock crx brakes?
I thought the CRX si w/ rear discs came with a 3540 valve.

and

If your MC and booster are changed then that might be why your not having this same problem. They might just be pushing harder then stock ones.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning.

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the 90-91 crxSI came with a 2040 valve. The 3540 belongs to the 90-91 Civic EX.

I decided to one-up and get the 4040 off of a 92 DA rs (heavier, requiring more stabilizing braking power from the back calipers).

-jonathan

Cato,

To answer your question, I am using the 4040 prop valve and I don't seem to be having any problems. In fact, imediately after the rear disk swap, the car was driven at Road Atlanta by my Dad in all the HPDE1 sessions and by me for two DE2 sessions.

I had a devil of a time getting all the air out of the system, though. I went through nearly a quart of brake fluid trying to get all the air out. When I did the rear disk swap, I also did the prop valve and stainless steel lines. I think I bled the system like six times before it finally felt right.

I would double check all the hard line fittings, and bleed the system again until you're sure there's no air in the lines. It sounds like that's it is.

Thanks man. I'll go back and do a double check on all the lines.

I have bleed the brakes 3-4 times now, and I'm almost positive there is no air in it.
We went through like 5 bottles of DOT 3.
From what I can see there are no leaks.

But I'll redo everything, re-bleed the brakes, and see if it doesn't get any better. And if it doesn't I'll swap the valve and see what it does.

Thanks again for the info.:goodjob:

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Originally Posted by StraightSix

Cato,


I had a devil of a time getting all the air out of the system, though. I went through nearly a quart of brake fluid trying to get all the air out. When I did the rear disk swap, I also did the prop valve and stainless steel lines. I think I bled the system like six times before it finally felt right.

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:D i also had this problem
-jonathan

StraightSix, are you going to be running weekend after next at the Roebling event?

-jonathan

Yes, I am. I'll be in the tower taking care of timing stuff and on track in DE2. You going to be there?

Shit...Cato...why didn't I think of this?

When we did the swap, ALL of the fluid drained out of the system. The ENTIRE system needs to be re-bled...starting with the MC. It needs to be bench bled. Then make our way down the entire setup.

Why the hell didn't I think of that before?

I can confirm that 90-91 calipers have larger pistons than 88 calipers... but I can't confirm that they're the same size as DA. The rear calipers are the same DA vs. EF, so it doesn't make sense to me that a CRX Si would ship with a 2040 valve and and a DA would come with a 4040. Why would Honda make two parts if the brake systems are the same?

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

Shit...Cato...why didn't I think of this?

When we did the swap, ALL of the fluid drained out of the system. The ENTIRE system needs to be re-bled...starting with the MC. It needs to be bench bled. Then make our way down the entire setup.

Why the hell didn't I think of that before?

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[reaches over and pulls the light cord above EVASIVE's head]

*click*
-jonathan

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

Shit...Cato...why didn't I think of this?

When we did the swap, ALL of the fluid drained out of the system. The ENTIRE system needs to be re-bled...starting with the MC. It needs to be bench bled. Then make our way down the entire setup.

Why the hell didn't I think of that before?

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:eek:
You really endangered Chris life!!!!

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Originally Posted by CRXseven

[reaches over and pulls the light cord above EVASIVE's head]

*click*
-jonathan

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:2up: LoL

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Originally Posted by jfrolang

I can confirm that 90-91 calipers have larger pistons than 88 calipers... but I can't confirm that they're the same size as DA. The rear calipers are the same DA vs. EF, so it doesn't make sense to me that a CRX Si would ship with a 2040 valve and and a DA would come with a 4040. Why would Honda make two parts if the brake systems are the same?

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The proportiong valve allows for the weight of the car for stability under extreme braking. The orifice inside the valve itself is larger or smaller, and the spring that allows pressure to pass to the rear brakes is stronger or weaker. The CRX weighs a lot less than a DA, thus requiring a smaller valve.

Answer to the second half of your question can be found here:

http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/brakepartslist.xls

-jonathan

LoL...he said orifice...

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Originally Posted by StraightSix

Yes, I am. I'll be in the tower taking care of timing stuff and on track in DE2. You going to be there?

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I'm planning on it. Although in my line of work, i could get a phone call and be at the airport within the hour. That's what happened at the Road Atlanta event last month, halfway there my phone rang....

-jonathan

...I really need to do something with my car so I can go out and play some more...

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

...I really need to do something with my car so I can go out and play some more...

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here's a suggestion :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

...I really need to do something with my car so I can go out and play some more...

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buy that other kid's EF BEN!!!!!

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Originally Posted by bigdare23

:eek:
You really endangered Chris life!!!!

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LOL its not as bad as it sounds, I just took a run down East Cherokee Dr.(you know this place Ben?) And my brakes are grabbing, well not like they should but they do grab ok. If they didn't I wouldn't be here right now...:D And its Cato, no one has called me Chris in over 3 years.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

Shit...Cato...why didn't I think of this?

When we did the swap, ALL of the fluid drained out of the system. The ENTIRE system needs to be re-bled...starting with the MC. It needs to be bench bled. Then make our way down the entire setup.

Why the hell didn't I think of that before?!

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Go on...you have my attention.

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Originally Posted by bigdare23

here's a suggestion :goodjob:

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Well, damn. That's harsh. To think...you were one of the people I was thinking of leaving posession of my car while I'm away for the next four years...

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

LOL its not as bad as it sounds, I just took a run down East Cherokee Dr.(you know this place Ben?) And my brakes are grabbing, well not like they should but they do grab ok. If they didn't I wouldn't be here right now...:D And its Cato, no one has called me Chris in over 3 years.:rolleyes:



Go on...you have my attention.
[/i]

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LoLoL @ Chris. I know South Cherokee. I don't frequent East Cherokee...

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

LoLoL @ Chris. I know South Cherokee. I don't frequent East Cherokee...

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Well its true.

I'm talking about E. Cherokee Drive. Its right off of Canton Hwy. Near the other end of it, by I-20, is a very nice mountain-like road. Not as many tight turns but its fun to cruise down.


But tell me about this bench bleeding. Will it fix my brakes? And where can I get it done? Any solution to this problem...and I'm all ears.

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

Well, damn. That's harsh. To think...you were one of the people I was thinking of leaving posession of my car while I'm away for the next four years...

LoLoL @ Chris. I know South Cherokee. I don't frequent East Cherokee...

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Oh second thought, replace the car with you :lmfao:

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

Well its true.

I'm talking about E. Cherokee Drive. Its right off of Canton Hwy. Near the other end of it, by I-20, is a very nice mountain-like road. Not as many tight turns but its fun to cruise down.


But tell me about this bench bleeding. Will it fix my brakes? And where can I get it done? Any solution to this problem...and I'm all ears.

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It should...it's GOTTA be the problem... And we can do it. We'll see if we can't get it up to the shop saturday if I don't get to go to MEPS/ASVAB. Otherwise, sometime early next week after Ig et off work.

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Originally Posted by bigdare23

Oh second thought, replace the car with you :lmfao:

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Cuz I'm not driveable...and you're not allowed to ride me. You must be at least 54inches.

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

It should...it's GOTTA be the problem... And we can do it. We'll see if we can't get it up to the shop saturday if I don't get to go to MEPS/ASVAB. Otherwise, sometime early next week after Ig et off work.

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When can you find out if you're going to take the ASVAB?
I'm busy this weekend, but if we can finish this up I can take time off. LMK asap

Other wise it's going to get confusing again. Mon-Thur, 3pm-10pm I'm booked.

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Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

Cuz I'm not driveable...and you're not allowed to ride me. You must be at least 54inches.

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shut your ass up :lmfao:

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Originally Posted by Cato ED-6

When can you find out if you're going to take the ASVAB?
I'm busy this weekend, but if we can finish this up I can take time off. LMK asap

Other wise it's going to get confusing again. Mon-Thur, 3pm-10pm I'm booked.

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Not gonna be taking the ASVAB this weekend. Let's shoot for my house sometime saturday afternoon time. Boss is going to a funeral tomorrow...so...shop's down. For some anger management, I'm going to the range with about 300rounds tomorrow...

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Originally Posted by bigdare23

shut your ass up :lmfao:

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Is it...is "BOOM" the word I'm supposed to use?

Get your ass up this way tomorrow. Let's go to the range.

I always gravity bleed anything when I do brakes. Then I manually bleed them, breaking the bleeders loose 3 times per corner. Drive it, and bleed it out once more.

If bleeding it dont help, or the valve, check your Master Cylinder. Could be a bad o'ring. Also your rear calipers, maybe they need rebuilt.