******** 2008 Presidential Election *********

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Originally Posted by SL65AMG

holy **** batman. who the **** let the communists in? send the bastards to china....

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Yeah, no joke! I read it a few times and compared closely so I know what you mean. I'm pissed as 4 of those choices.

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Originally Posted by Craigers2k

Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.

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The Bill of Rights also restricts Congress' power by prohibiting it from making any law respecting establishment of religion and by prohibiting the federal government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. So there's the law.

I have no problem with a democrat for president, but beware they probably will try something like this: More than two centuries since the Constitution Convention at Philadelphia in 1787 have seen many state applications to Congress submitted by the respective state legislatures calling for the "Convention for proposing Amendments," authorized by Article V of the U.S. Constitution.(con-con)
When two-thirds of the state legislatures shall apply - i.e. both houses of the legislature in 34 states - then Article V of the Constitution requires the Congress to "call a convention for proposing amendments."

So get your state legislatures email and be ready when the dems take office.

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.

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Originally Posted by Craigers2k

Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.

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Is this the strongest argument you can make against universal healthcare? I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

What amazes me is people who cannot afford healthcare argue against a universal plan.. what the hell?

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.

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good post finally some real information. but i do have one question I might be one of those people who have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for because lately its changed so much i have no idea. The only thing that hasn't changed about them is their love for the church. Enlighten me because i honestly don't know.

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

good post finally some real information. but i do have one question I might be one of those people who have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for because lately its changed so much i have no idea. The only thing that hasn't changed about them is their love for the church. Enlighten me because i honestly don't know.

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what i should have said was they will vote against republican simply because dubya is there now....not because of what ever republicans have to offer. i cant honestly tell you what any of them(dems or reps) stand for....except for "change". they all have a hidden agenda. they are all crooked.

the only difference is that democrats want to have all these programs to give **** to ppl that most of the time dont want to help themselves becuase they can get free govt money. republicans what to stuff their pockets and their buddies pockets at the cost of those of us that actually work. the real losers here are ppl like you and me that are in that middle tax bracket where we make too much money to be considered poor and take place in the democratic handouts but we dont make enough to benefit from the republicans ideas.

this is where paul would have saved us all...hes everything wrapped up in one bundle. of the likely candidates obama would most likely be the best in my honest opinion..because hillary and mccain are out of there minds...mccain wants to stay in iraq for 100 years and hillary thinks that in 60 days she can pull troops out....both ideas would only make sense if they were thought of by a drunken heroin addict snorting drano head-butting a side walk.

and lets be honest the world was not all fun and games with clinton in office either. there were bad times with that administration as well. so what happens if hillary is put in office? dont you think the same **** will be there? im not presidential scholar and i dont claim to have a bunch of knowlege on the subject, but maybe we really do need someone that has not already had there hands in this disaster area known as america. ron paul was the #1 choice for me..and its looking more and more like obama is gonna take his place. this is gonna be a tough election for me.

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Originally Posted by tony

I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

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Apparently no one is listening.

I have already said what would be wrong with the government running healthcare, though you would think that I wouldn't have to say anything else besides the fact that it would be unconstitutional. So sad to see that we have gotten to a place as a country were the Constitution is no longer considered regarding new policy. People are still told and believe that we are a true democracy.

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Originally Posted by tony

I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

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So since the imperial federal government has already taken control over parts of our lives that it had no right to we should continue to let it control more? It amazes me how so many liberals piss and moan about the Patriot Act being unconstitutional, yet have no problem with the government taking control of their healthcare. I am not defending the Patriot Act.

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Originally Posted by tony

What amazes me is people who cannot afford healthcare argue against a universal plan.. what the hell?

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Hmmm, maybe because not everyone believes in the government controlling everything we do! Maybe because some of us feel it is NOT ok for the government to take (forcefully if necessary) from on individual to give to someone else who doesn't deserve it. Maybe it's because some still view it as the theft it really is. And maybe, just maybe, some still feel it is wrong to force someone to be something they don't want to do (like force millions to 'buy' health insurance that don't want it).

What doesn't amaze me is that so many people are willing to allow the government to take from others so that they can have free healthcare, or free whatever. Hey, how else can they afford that HDTV? What does amaze me is how little the imperial government has to offer for people to give up their freedoms.

BTW, if that can't afford comment was directed at me, don't even begin to assume what I can and can't afford.

You're right.. taxpayers already bear the burden of healthcare anyway so why should the government care? The system is SOOOOO perfect that no changes are needed, great.

And honestly.. I don't care what you can or cannot afford.. the statement is true. People argue against a single payer system when they cannot afford healthcare, it is proven that a system like that is efficient if implemented properly.

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Originally Posted by Craigers2k

Apparently no one is listening.

I have already said what would be wrong with the government running healthcare, though you would think that I wouldn't have to say anything else besides the fact that it would be unconstitutional. So sad to see that we have gotten to a place as a country were the Constitution is no longer considered regarding new policy. People are still told and believe that we are a true democracy.

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AMEN! we are a republic! NOT A DEMOCRACY!

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

ron paul was the #1 choice for me..and its looking more and more like obama is gonna take his place. this is gonna be a tough election for me.

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you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.

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you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

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Originally Posted by JConner

you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

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lulz at your comment. so vote mccain only to finish the job in iraq??? so our poor economy isn't a factor for ya huh?? Bringing more jobs back to the states doesn't matter you either right? we did all we can for the iraqi people..now it time for them and their government to do there part its not up to us. Intell forces of course should stay in Iraq for our benefit here as long as there intell is somewhat accurate, but having as mnay troops as we do there now is uncalled for because now its not our war anymore. The war on terror spreads to more countries than just Iraq. Oh yea give me that list of troops who wants to go back overseas again?

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Originally Posted by JConner

you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

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wow you are a dumb and ignorant. Please explain how getting rid of corporate taxes will boost the economy. Everybody supported that economic boost plan dems and rep. so please find something better to TRY and get your point across.

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

lulz at your comment. so vote mccain only to finish the job in iraq??? so our poor economy isn't a factor for ya huh?? Bringing more jobs back to the states doesn't matter you either right? we did all we can for the iraqi people..now it time for them and their government to do there part its not up to us. Intell forces of course should stay in Iraq for our benefit here as long as there intell is somewhat accurate, but having as mnay troops as we do there now is uncalled for because now its not our war anymore. The war on terror spreads to more countries than just Iraq. Oh yea give me that list of troops who wants to go back overseas again?

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hell yes the economy is a factor. But NO ****ing liberal that wants to raise taxes on corporations will help the economy. The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half or done away with in general. That would fix the economy and give people a reason to start a business in the United States! The problem is that people are punished for being rich or having a business here that is why the economy is so ****ed up. People think that the rich CEO's of these companies are so evil, but without these guys LOTS of people would be unemployed.

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Originally Posted by JConner

you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

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why am i an idiot? because i form my own opinion? because i have looked over what each man/woman has to offer and i liked pauls offering the most? because i dont vote blindly? all of these candidates have flaws.....open your eyes!!!

to me paul was the man for the job...simple as that. and in my honest opinion i think mccains outlook is wrong. its my opinion.....you dont have to like it.

i voted for bush and to this day i dont feel like i made a mistake. i think that he did a pretty damn good job considering the hand he was dealt. however, we are now in a war with religious fanatics. you cant beat these guys. they want to die. they want to kill you and kill them selves in the process. you cant beat these ppl! if we stay there is it going to save any lives? the next attack will be 10000 ppl....how many soldiers are we gonna lose in the next 10, 15, or 20 years...how much money is this country gonna spend in the next 10, 15, or 20 years? we are spending approx a billion a month right now just on the war(this was in the news..i cannot remember the exact amount but it was billions not millions). the national debt is out of controll.

your mad because ron paul wants to abolish the irs and bring in a fair tax but you are voting for the guy that is setting us up to blow 12 more billion every year for some worthless war that cant be won? that sounds like a killer plan to dig this country out of debt..lets bow money on a war that we cant win!!! what is ron paul thinking? that stupid fair tax would bring our comanies back to the usa, creating jobs and with the fair tax everyone would pay taxes...surely that would never generate enough revenue to pull us out of this ****ty deal we have now.

as for getting rid of corporate taxes.....under the fair tax "money retained in the business and reinvested to create jobs, build factories, or develop new technologies, pays no tax." they can skip out on the taxes if they reinvest into the company thus reducing the cost handed down to you and i.

its gonna take some serious persuading to get me on the mccain boat. i never said i was voting for obama but he has a better chance that mccain in my eyes. im not gonna call you an idiot because of who you choose. its your choice..so please refrain from attacking me personally simply becuase im not your typical sheep that hits the poles.

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Originally Posted by JConner

you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

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do they really want to stay there and finish? i have many freinds that have been there..some of them 4 times! they dont wanna go back. they want out. as for protecting us..how is john mccain going to protect anyone from ppl that are raised with the beleif that we are evil? how is he going to something that has been brain washed into every child over there? no matter who gets in the white house these religous fanatics are never going to stop. that regioun of this world has been at war with themselves for thousands of years. you are not going to stop them.

there should be no single main topic....we should all consider the war, taxes, education, and medical care. when you stop to focus on one single aspect you miss out on the other aspects that are equally important.

me and you are more similar than you think. i think that mccain has the best leadership skills of al of them. he is no doubt the best leader we could get...but his ideas on the war are that of an insane man.

like i said already im no presidential scholar but this is a no brainer...fighting for peace in the middle east is like ****ing for virginity...think about it!

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Originally Posted by JConner

hell yes the economy is a factor. But NO ****ing liberal that wants to raise taxes on corporations will help the economy. The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half or done away with in general. That would fix the economy and give people a reason to start a business in the United States! The problem is that people are punished for being rich or having a business here that is why the economy is so ****ed up. People think that the rich CEO's of these companies are so evil, but without these guys LOTS of people would be unemployed.

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lulz again. we are not talking about small business we are talking about big business. yes big business should be taxed and CEO's should be taxed the same as the common person. What because they have tons of money they should get tax breaks?? No they can have tax break its easy just donate a small percentage to cause/fund like cancer research or to a hospital or something on that nature because then that money wouldn't be taxed their income would go down and they wouldn't be taxed as much. I am all for small businesses receiving breaks for the first 5-10 years depending on the business.

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

why am i an idiot? because i form my own opinion? because i have looked over what each man/woman has to offer and i liked pauls offering the most? because i dont vote blindly? all of these candidates have flaws.....open your eyes!!!

to me paul was the man for the job...simple as that. and in my honest opinion i think mccains outlook is wrong. its my opinion.....you dont have to like it.

i voted for bush and to this day i dont feel like i made a mistake.
i think that he did a pretty damn good job considering the hand he was dealt. however, we are now in a war with religious fanatics. you cant beat these guys. they want to die. they want to kill you and kill them selves in the process. you cant beat these ppl! if we stay there is it going to save any lives? the next attack will be 10000 ppl....how many soldiers are we gonna lose in the next 10, 15, or 20 years...how much money is this country gonna spend in the next 10, 15, or 20 years? we are spending approx a billion a month right now just on the war(this was in the news..i cannot remember the exact amount but it was billions not millions). the national debt is out of controll.

your mad because ron paul wants to abolish the irs and bring in a fair tax but you are voting for the guy that is setting us up to blow 12 more billion every year for some worthless war that cant be won? that sounds like a killer plan to dig this country out of debt..lets bow money on a war that we cant win!!! what is ron paul thinking? that stupid fair tax would bring our comanies back to the usa, creating jobs and with the fair tax everyone would pay taxes...surely that would never generate enough revenue to pull us out of this ****ty deal we have now.

as for getting rid of corporate taxes.....under the fair tax "money retained in the business and reinvested to create jobs, build factories, or develop new technologies, pays no tax." they can skip out on the taxes if they reinvest into the company thus reducing the cost handed down to you and i.

its gonna take some serious persuading to get me on the mccain boat. i never said i was voting for obama but he has a better chance that mccain in my eyes. im not gonna call you an idiot because of who you choose. its your choice..so please refrain from attacking me personally simply becuase im not your typical sheep that hits the poles.



do they really want to stay there and finish? i have many freinds that have been there..some of them 4 times! they dont wanna go back. they want out. as for protecting us..how is john mccain going to protect anyone from ppl that are raised with the beleif that we are evil? how is he going to something that has been brain washed into every child over there? no matter who gets in the white house these religous fanatics are never going to stop. that regioun of this world has been at war with themselves for thousands of years. you are not going to stop them.

there should be no single main topic....we should all consider the war, taxes, education, and medical care. when you stop to focus on one single aspect you miss out on the other aspects that are equally important.

me and you are more similar than you think. i think that mccain has the best leadership skills of al of them. he is no doubt the best leader we could get...but his ideas on the war are that of an insane man.

like i said already im no presidential scholar but this is a no brainer...fighting for peace in the middle east is like ****ing for virginity...think about it!

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I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

lulz again. we are not talking about small business we are talking about big business. yes big business should be taxed and CEO's should be taxed the same as the common person. What because they have tons of money they should get tax breaks?? No they can have tax break its easy just donate a small percentage to cause/fund like cancer research or to a hospital or something on that nature because then that money wouldn't be taxed their income would go down and they wouldn't be taxed as much. I am all for small businesses receiving breaks for the first 5-10 years depending on the business.

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do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!



EDIT: hell yes the CEO's and exec's should get tax breaks, they provide jobs to millions of people! Why should they have to donate some of their hard earned money to cancer research or hospitals? HAHAHAHAHAHA

My stepfather is an Executive Physician as VP of a very large nationwide private hospital. He spent YEARS in college and then more years as a doctor before moving up to an Exec position.....why should he have to give money back to the "under achievers"?

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Originally Posted by JConner

I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

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Money is always a factor because it effects our already struggling economy everyday we fall more and more behind euro.

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Originally Posted by JConner

I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

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you have completely lost me. why does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? becuase that money is borrowed. this country is in debt and we need financial help badly. blowing billions of dollars wont get us out of debt. sending all our manufacturers over seas for the tax breaks wont bail us out either. we need american companies back, we need useless spending to stop.

yes we need to protect ourselves. but doing it in an area that is more hazardous than any ghetto in america is not the place to do it. you are missing the part about us fighting ppl that beleive in magic. religious fanatics cant be beat. there fore we are wasting money over there. pull out let them kill each other and concentrate on protecting america. spend those bilions of dollars bringing companies and jobs back to america, spend those billions re-building our infrastructure..not those assholes in the middle east. spend those billions of dollars on anything but a new country for the religous retards that think killing yourself = bangin 70 virgins.

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Originally Posted by JConner

do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!



EDIT: hell yes the CEO's and exec's should get tax breaks, they provide jobs to millions of people! Why should they have to donate some of their hard earned money to cancer research or hospitals? HAHAHAHAHAHA

My stepfather is an Executive Physician as VP of a very large nationwide private hospital. He spent YEARS in college and then more years as a doctor before moving up to an Exec position.....why should he have to give money back to the "under achievers"?

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your just not getting it. if we don't tax big business how are we going to even try and make a dent on paying all the money back we took out for the war that you continue to support.

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Originally Posted by JConner

do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!

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and as long as they get tax breaks from packing up and moving over seas they are hurting our economy while stuffing their pockets full of money. if you can see what is happening then you are either a blind def mute, or you have been living in a cave all your life. i totally agree..if the money is there to be made then make it....but do it here in america. american is circleing the drain right no because of past legislature that allows tax breaks for having your business over seas...they get the tax break, really cheap labor and charge us more and more for the product.

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

you have completely lost me. why does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? becuase that money is borrowed. this country is in debt and we need financial help badly. blowing billions of dollars wont get us out of debt. sending all our manufacturers over seas for the tax breaks wont bail us out either. we need american companies back, we need useless spending to stop.

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EXACTLY! We need to cut the corporate tax rate so that companies WANT to conduct business in America instead of moving overseas!!!!!!! We need to quit handing money to the poor (un-achievers) people and make drug test's mandatory for anyone that is on welfare.

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

and as long as they get tax breaks from packing up and moving over seas they are hurting our economy while stuffing their pockets full of money. if you can see what is happening then you are either a blind def mute, or you have been living in a cave all your life. i totally agree..if the money is there to be made then make it....but do it here in america. american is circleing the drain right no because of past legislature that allows tax breaks for having your business over seas...they get the tax break, really cheap labor and charge us more and more for the product.

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YOU CANNOT make money in America because of the tax code! Once we go to a simpler tax system (it'll happen one day) this country will THRIVE again!

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

your just not getting it. if we don't tax big business how are we going to even try and make a dent on paying all the money back we took out for the war that you continue to support.

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We do away with the tax on those big businesses, their prices fall, more people spend money, and wa-la.... we are out of debt!!!!!!! This is a simple concept that most public schooled/government educated people cannot comprehend!

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Originally Posted by JConner

EXACTLY! We need to cut the corporate tax rate so that companies WANT to conduct business in America instead of moving overseas!!!!!!! We need to quit handing money to the poor (un-achievers) people and make drug test's mandatory for anyone that is on welfare.

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i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.

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Originally Posted by JConner

We do away with the tax on those big businesses, their prices fall, more people spend money, and wa-la.... we are out of debt!!!!!!! This is a simple concept that most public schooled/government educated people cannot comprehend!

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thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JConner

YOU CANNOT make money in America because of the tax code! Once we go to a simpler tax system (it'll happen one day) this country will THRIVE again!

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this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.

but your forgetting one concept most private school trust fund babies forget....we are too far in debt now for that to work especially if you want to continue the war in Iraq. wa-la your little plan vaulters .

oh yea what college do you go to or did attend because i guarantee it was government funded in some aspect so take you little i think i know what I'm talking about because i went to private school bull**** elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.



thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers



this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.

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If you think about it except for the stance on the war, McCain is not to differ than most democrats except for hillary (she is a tad extreme in her measures that she wants if elected).

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.



thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers



this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.

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I am more of a libertarian than a republican. I am for less taxes, less government, etc.... but I am pro choice...........


edit:

I do dont vote for McCain because he is a republican.....he is pretty much a Liberal

btw......

I think that before anyone should be allowed to vote in this presidential election they should have to answer 2 questions...

1. Do you have a right to vote?

2. Is the Unidos Estudios (haha) a Democracy?

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

If you think about it except for the stance on the war, McCain is not to differ than most democrats except for hillary (she is a tad extreme in her measures that she wants if elected).

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i can see that in some ways....what really kills me though is the 2nd ammendment stances of the candidates.....mccain has me all the way there. democrats typically hate guns for some reason.

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Originally Posted by JConner

I am more of a libertarian than a republican. I am for less taxes, less government, etc.... but I am pro choice...........

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i really claim no party but i would say if you classifed me i would fall into the rep category. except i dont give 2 ****s about religioun, i dont care if you are gay and want to get married, and i dont give 2 ****s if you want an abortion.


like i said before mccain is most likely the best one that will be on the ticket..i just think his views on iraq are wreckless and may run this country all the way to the scene of the crash. just my opinion. i hope im wrong

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Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec

but your forgetting one concept most private school trust fund babies forget....we are too far in debt now for that to work especially if you want to continue the war in Iraq. wa-la your little plan vaulters .

oh yea what college do you go to or did attend because i guarantee it was government funded in some aspect so take you little i think i know what I'm talking about because i went to private school bull**** elsewhere.

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I duno if you are directing this question toward me but i'll answer it anyways...

I went to Young Harris (private & Christian) for 2 years before I partied too much and switched to where I am now in community college . And no... my education has never been funded by the government, it has been funded by my EVIL/RICH (achivers) parents :)

sticked. :)

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Originally Posted by japan4racing

i can see that in some ways....what really kills me though is the 2nd ammendment stances of the candidates.....mccain has me all the way there. democrats typically hate guns for some reason.



i really claim no party but i would say if you classifed me i would fall into the rep category. except i dont give 2 ****s about religioun, i dont care if you are gay and want to get married, and i dont give 2 ****s if you want an abortion.

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hell yea! If we were allowed to carry a gun into a mall/school no one would be getting shot by these maniacs! People shoot up schools/malls because they know that no one will be carrying a gun! I couldnt give 2 ****s about organized religion either, anyone who tells their children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old is CRAZY!

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Originally Posted by JConner

I duno if you are directing this question toward me but i'll answer it anyways...

I went to Young Harris (private & Christian) for 2 years before I partied too much and switched to where I am now in community college . And no... my education has never been funded by the government, it has been funded by my EVIL/RICH (achivers) parents :)

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community college= federal & state funded. sorry try again.

oh yea whoever said your parents were evil/rich judging by the way you conduct yourself you think your parents are rich, they may be comfortable but doubt their rich.

your the first person I have ever heard say they didn't finish young harris because they partied too much. oh well first for everything.

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Originally Posted by tony

You're right.. taxpayers already bear the burden of healthcare anyway so why should the government care? The system is SOOOOO perfect that no changes are needed, great.

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When have I ever said that the current system is perfect and in need of no change?? You want all control in the hands of politicians and bureacrats in Washington, no thanks, I'd rather make the decisions that affect my life myself.

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Originally Posted by tony

And honestly.. I don't care what you can or cannot afford.. the statement is true. People argue against a single payer system when they cannot afford healthcare, it is proven that a system like that is efficient if implemented properly.

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Haha, you act like that is a bad thing! Again, not everyone feels it is ok to use the government to steal from some individuals to give to others. Not everyone wants the government to control every aspect of their lives. Whether or not they can afford someone has no bearing on the decisions they make. Freedom and liberty, however, does. Are you even listening?

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Originally Posted by Craigers2k

When have I ever said that the current system is perfect and in need of no change?? You want all control in the hands of politicians and bureacrats in Washington, no thanks, I'd rather make the decisions that affect my life myself.



Haha, you act like that is a bad thing! Again, not everyone feels it is ok to use the government to steal from some individuals to give to others. Not everyone wants the government to control every aspect of their lives. Whether or not they can afford someone has no bearing on the decisions they make. Freedom and liberty, however, does. Are you even listening?

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lol You call the current system freedom? When a company has to be more concerned with their profit margin than your health that is freedom?

Whether its politicians or CEO's either way the people do not have the control that you desire.. at least under a universal plan everyone can afford to have health coverage rather than roll the dice.

Show me a plan that provides good coverage for ALL citizens that is affordable but completely voids the american government. Otherwise you no longer have an argument on this subject.

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Originally Posted by tony

lol You call the current system freedom? When a company has to be more concerned with their profit margin than your health that is freedom?

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Again you missed my point. If you aren't even willing to read what I post I am done. I am not advocating we keep things the same. The government got involved with healthcare many years ago removing competition and the incentive to keep costs down. Then congress created HMO's and the trend continued... We need to end the government regulation. Look at the way I care for my dog. If he needs something, I call a few vets in the area. Who is the cheapest and what are their credential's. Service is quick, cheap, quality. I get multiple tests done and the results within minutes. I choose who I go to, when and where. ----> I <---- pay for it. Why? Because I chose to have the care done. I would NEVER FORCE anyone else to foot the bill for me. Charity? thats different.

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Originally Posted by tony

Show me a plan that provides good coverage for ALL citizens that is affordable but completely voids the american government. Otherwise you no longer have an argument on this subject.

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Since when has the plan been healthcare for all or nothing? Whatever happened to choice? Show me where in the Constitution, the Dec. of Independence, dictionary, Bible, or where ever else you can think of, show me where it says that everyone has the right to free healthcare, and if they can't afford it it will be paid by someone else. Show me where it says that.

Now, I love how you assume government run (ie. NO choice) healthcare is quality. Does month long wait times equal quality? Lets not forget the mess that the government has gotten us in with Social Security and Medicare... Take a look:

Here are some key dates we can all look forward to:
In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue. This already happened boys.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest. In only 4 years, Medicare is essentially bankrupt.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue. In about 9 years, Social Security is essentially bankrupt.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081. In 11 years, full benefits can't be paid on behalf of Medicare recipients.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest. More bad news.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP. At this point it's really ugly.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081. Say goodbye to Social Security.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.
This obviously can't be sustained.

You should all read the summary report:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf

The government is just a model for effectiveness and qualify...:rolleyes:

Not only that, but you laugh at our current system, stating there is no freedom of choice. What will be it like when the government has contol and they decide that people can no longer smoke? That costs too much for government healthcare. Or if you are overweight... What is going to stop the government from controlling many aspects of our lives, be it eating and exercising habits in the name of keeping healthcare for everyone? Is that likely? Maybe, maybe not. I would rather not give politicians the chance.

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Originally Posted by Craigers2k

Again you missed my point. If you aren't even willing to read what I post I am done. I am not advocating we keep things the same. The government got involved with healthcare many years ago removing competition and the incentive to keep costs down. Then congress created HMO's and the trend continued... We need to end the government regulation. Look at the way I care for my dog. If he needs something, I call a few vets in the area. Who is the cheapest and what are their credential's. Service is quick, cheap, quality. I get multiple tests done and the results within minutes. I choose who I go to, when and where. ----> I <---- pay for it. Why? Because I chose to have the care done. I would NEVER FORCE anyone else to foot the bill for me. Charity? thats different.



Since when has the plan been healthcare for all or nothing? Whatever happened to choice? Show me where in the Constitution, the Dec. of Independence, dictionary, Bible, or where ever else you can think of, show me where it says that everyone has the right to free healthcare, and if they can't afford it it will be paid by someone else. Show me where it says that.

Now, I love how you assume government run (ie. NO choice) healthcare is quality. Does month long wait times equal quality? Lets not forget the mess that the government has gotten us in with Social Security and Medicare... Take a look:

Here are some key dates we can all look forward to:
In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue. This already happened boys.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest. In only 4 years, Medicare is essentially bankrupt.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue. In about 9 years, Social Security is essentially bankrupt.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081. In 11 years, full benefits can't be paid on behalf of Medicare recipients.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest. More bad news.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP. At this point it's really ugly.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081. Say goodbye to Social Security.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.
This obviously can't be sustained.

You should all read the summary report:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf

The government is just a model for effectiveness and qualify...:rolleyes:

Not only that, but you laugh at our current system, stating there is no freedom of choice. What will be it like when the government has contol and they decide that people can no longer smoke? That costs too much for government healthcare. Or if you are overweight... What is going to stop the government from controlling many aspects of our lives, be it eating and exercising habits in the name of keeping healthcare for everyone? Is that likely? Maybe, maybe not. I would rather not give politicians the chance.

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Again, show me a plan that covers citizens who cannot afford healthcare, and lowers cost while maintaining the quality that DOESN'T involve the government. Otherwise this back and forth is useless.

There is no right to Education

No right to Police Protection

No right to vote

But we have all of those? Not everything that makes a society thrive is a "Right".. some things just make common sense.

I read most of this and have a few comments to make.

1. Fair Tax is the only way to reduce govt spending as it will add more than $500B to the economy between the added amount govt spends and receives in taxes. That 500B doesnt even account for the ammout of ~33% income taxes taken from the individual combined with the 22% on business that is already added to the price you pay for products. If you listen to Neal Boortz's fair tax seminar on his website you will learn quite a bit. I will add a few more points on the fair tax.

* Fair tax will add the price of products ~$0.01 per dollar.

* Fair tax eliminates corporate taxes. This is especially helpful for small business. My wife owns her own business and has a monthy payroll of ~3k and pays 1400 a month in payroll taxes. Right now she needs another employee, but because of payroll taxes she cannot offrd it. What sends more money into the economy, 1400 to the govt or ~1600 to another employee?

* The fairtax will make the US an HUGE corporate tax haven for foreign companies. More than 90% of foreign fortune 500 corporations say they will move at least some portion, if not all of their corporation to the US to take advantage of that haven. Can anyone even begin to compute the number of high and low paying jobs that will come to the US if that happens?

I can keep going, but I imagine most people will ignore this post because of its length anyays.


Next, gun control. Gun control laws are absolutely pointless. The only popel they affect are those that own them legally. If you have an illegal gun now, are you going to turn it in if it becomes more illegal than it already is?

I'm out of time right now, but I do hope more people learn more about the fair tax. I may even create a fair tax thread tonight so we can bring that debate there.

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

I read most of this and have a few comments to make.

1. Fair Tax is the only way to reduce govt spending as it will add more than $500B to the economy between the added amount govt spends and receives in taxes. That 500B doesnt even account for the ammout of ~33% income taxes taken from the individual combined with the 22% on business that is already added to the price you pay for products. If you listen to Neal Boortz's fair tax seminar on his website you will learn quite a bit. I will add a few more points on the fair tax.

* Fair tax will add the price of products ~$0.01 per dollar.

* Fair tax eliminates corporate taxes. This is especially helpful for small business. My wife owns her own business and has a monthy payroll of ~3k and pays 1400 a month in payroll taxes. Right now she needs another employee, but because of payroll taxes she cannot offrd it. What sends more money into the economy, 1400 to the govt or ~1600 to another employee?

* The fairtax will make the US an HUGE corporate tax haven for foreign companies. More than 90% of foreign fortune 500 corporations say they will move at least some portion, if not all of their corporation to the US to take advantage of that haven. Can anyone even begin to compute the number of high and low paying jobs that will come to the US if that happens?

I can keep going, but I imagine most people will ignore this post because of its length anyays.


Next, gun control. Gun control laws are absolutely pointless. The only popel they affect are those that own them legally. If you have an illegal gun now, are you going to turn it in if it becomes more illegal than it already is?

I'm out of time right now, but I do hope more people learn more about the fair tax. I may even create a fair tax thread tonight so we can bring that debate there.

*

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troof :goodjob: