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Link to democratic plan to end the war, more specifically: one that does not involving leaving a country that can not run/sustain itself, and one that does take the attitude "the republicans caused the mess, screw Iraq, they can fend for them self". Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegger
Well, Biden's plan is right up there.
:D
go back and reread...because that **** does not make since. from what i get from that you actually care about Iraq. Because i am with the people that say screw Iraq, they can fend for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
It makes sense, the criteria just does not fit into your plan for ending the war. I am not one to give up, and leave a big screw up for others to fix (not to mention the possible direct impact it could have on us here at home). It is just is not my mindset, to give up and say "screw em", if thats your mindset.. I can respect that to some degree, it just goes against my grain, thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegger
LOL you could only think of one thing..... yeah.... my point exactly.....
but im not saying that republicans are great, they suck too.,...but the dem's suck more.
no one can do things right..... and the only one who i have seen even try to do things right is ron paul......
if Hillary or Baraka get the nomination I'll bet anything who ever the Rep. candidate is he will win.
i'll take that bet. :goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by {X}Echo419
Bombs not bongs.
Shut those hippies up and bomb the hell out of those who oppose us.
Hope this helps.
dude i kinda admit im a lil torn between ron paul and Obama. Immigration i think nobody had a claear win and same with healthcare but hillary can shove it she's acting like Gore... riding on Bill's coatails.
Im voting mccain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0p7!mu5
Obama wants socialized health care, so thats a clear loss! And Ron Paul, well considering he is not a presidential candidate, I am not sure how you plan to possibly vote for him. Do the country a favor and educate yourself a little more, uneducated voters is a huge problem with this country.
yeah for real, I saw hippies and clean cut people on the same street corner for weekends in a row holding up signs for ron paul...lol he never had a chance apparently.
Much better than mandated healthcare that Hillary is proposing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
x2....well McCain is the Republican candidate... democratic election is still close, its still really funny if you look at the turnout of the two parties and compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Clinton won texas and ohio FAWWWWWKK!!! oh well obama still INCREASED his delegate lead.
Yeah no biggie, this was her chance to take the lead and she didnt come close.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec
Yea the only reason why she won, was because of the bad timing in Obama's NAFTA controversy
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
very true, but still... government run/influenced health care, no thanks. It just makes you and I foot the bill for lazy people even more than we currently do.
edit: Huckabee dropped today/last night, for obvious reasons.
Eh, not much. If I remember right both plans call for limiting the profit margins of insurance companies. How long will those last after investors flee from the market?Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Also, lets not forget, democrats said that social security would be voluntary. Look where they have taken it. It will only be a matter of years before socialist democrats make Obama's plan mandated.
The American people have allowed themselves to be convinced that healthcare is a 'right' and that they shouldn't have to pay for it. Get ready for socialism, personal responsibility is lost in this company.
This dips into a whole another argument but I think capitalism isn't exactly working like it should either. I personally am all for a single payer healthcare system, but again that is a different argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigers2k
The healthcare industry is licking their chops at Hillary's plan, I do not know about the capped profits but I do know mandated coverage pushes premiums upwards big time. Even Mitt Romney abandoned his implementation of mandated coverage in Massachusetts.
Hell yea they are, i bet they are pushing some funds into her campaign because they would see their money plus sum back if she is elected. True she has the solutions for america but its the same solutions almost every other president has had, and the same ones most americans are tired of seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
holy **** batman. who the **** let the communists in? send the bastards to china....Quote:
Originally Posted by schmiddr2
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
capitalism(im thinking you meant A republic, or a democracy) works. only not when you let these ****ing clowns have control and screw everything up...
Nah I definitely meant capitalism, not necessarily meaning free trade but heres the thing... Government and Capitalism should be as seperate as Church and State. When lobbyists are able to persuade governments through capitalism then the system fails the people and this is a major problem to the current state of our economy. I am all for free trade but when you mix that in with those that make laws to govern then you lose the essence of what this republic was to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by SL65AMG
Personally I'm a Ron Paul fan. I haven't heard any other canidate use the words freedom, liberty, and constitution. Most people either don't know or have forgotten the fact that we are a republic and not a true democracy. Our constitution sets up laws that no majority can overthrow. The fact that we will most likely elect a socialist president this year is scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
For government healthcare? no thanks, I enjoy having the option to CHOOSE WHAT I WANT AND WHEN I WANT IT. Why should I (one who is healthy, works out, eats well) have to help pay for someone else's healthcare that smokes, drinks, is lazy and/or overweight? THAT is unethical. Yes our current system has problems, but where did those come from? I think Ron Paul says it best with this:
As a medical doctor, I’ve seen first-hand how bureaucratic red tape interferes with the doctor-patient relationship and drives costs higher. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care. Yet health insurance premiums and drug costs keep rising. Clearly a new approach is needed. Congress needs to craft innovative legislation that makes health care more affordable without raising taxes or increasing the deficit. It also needs to repeal bad laws that keep health care costs higher than necessary. We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses- but not individuals- to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.
While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government- in the form of “universal coverage”- is the answer. But government already is involved in roughly two-thirds of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.
For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.
The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone- doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies- to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high.
It's sad to see how the democrats have become socialist, and most republicans liberals. It seems like the principles this country was founded on, true constitutional convervatism, are gone. Countless are looking toward the government for handouts, and we keep giving them ballots. I look forward to losing even more liberties and freedoms this election. :(
Ok I'm done.:D
Do you really think YOU choose or the insurance company? When you need the operation they deem insufficient to their profit margin you feel that is superior to quality healthcare for everyone?
I probably dislike the current system as much as you do. However, I do not feel socialism is the answer. There is NO incentive for me to shop around for care if I ever need anything. NO competition in the marketplace. Why would prices be cheap? Day to day hospital visits should be paid out of pocket. I don't go to Allstate if my car breaks down or needs an oil change. Only if something drastic happens. Why do we need insurance companies or the government to handle everything?
Health care is not a right. No where in our constitution does it guarantee individuals the right to 'free' (via taxes!)health insurance. In fact, forcing individuals into a government mandated system goes against everything this county was founded on. Also, you assume that a national single payer system would mean quality care? What about those in Canada and the UK that have to wait weeks, sometimes months for health care?
Education isn't a right either, should we do away with education funded by the taxpayers? Voting isn't even a constitutional right.. I could go on and on but do you know why Canadians have to wait? Their doctors come to the U.S because of such high salaries here, it has nothing to do with their system. France, Canada.. all these places laugh at our healthcare system because it is so backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigers2k
Not everyone has the means to pay for their own healthcare at the current rate, that is why millions of american citizens go without and the taxpayers foot the bill anyway.
Your right, and our government education system is a complete JOKE. Here is a prime example of our wonderful government system. We need more incentives for private schools, homeschoolers, etc. But thats another topic...Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Again correct, and I find it funny when people talk about their constitution 'right' to vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Britian is the exact same way. Not too long ago there were stories of how a decent percentage of the population had performed their own dental work because they were in such pain and didn't want to wait the weeks or months it took to see a doctor. Maybe the problem is that since everything is free, people go to the hospital or emergency room when they get a cold! Yes our system has problems, no more government is not the answer. we need less.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
The fact that the taxpayers pay for it is pathetic. Again, people need to be held responsible for their own bills and not depend on the government to take from others. Do you know that of the 40 million or so uninsured, some estimate about 10-12 million of those to be illegals? And millions more are younger, who can afford health insurance, but choose not to because they have so few medical expenses. How would a mandated system help them. By forcing them to 'buy' something they don't want or need? What about the millions that 'can't' afford insurance because they are too busy buying HDTV's and expensive cars? Yeah, lets dish out more money to cover them as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Socialized medicine is nothing more than theft. Taking tax money from those that can afford it and giving it to those that can't.
Voting is not a right, its a DUTY. Do your duty or get the hell out of this country.
Healthcare is fine in my books how it is, i just request that people working for small business like me didn't get screwed in the ass with the crappy high premiums while bigger companies and government jobs barely pay **** and get awesome coverage like dental and eye care, etc. Its a very unbalanced issue.
ok than why say that healthcare is fine how it is? I mean if you don't like the high premiums because you belong to a small business you shouldn't need to request anything because remember healthcare is fine like it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPOOLIN
lol My point exactly, that post is a complete contradiction. You think the system is fine but you don't like the cost of healthcare currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec
dude i said the healthcare system is fine, premiums are part of INSURANCE, THE HEALTH INSURANCE SYSTEM IS STUPID.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec
my post is pretty damn clear. Premiums are not part of healthcare system, just the insurance that pays for it for you.
im more on the democatic side. either Barrack or Hillary would do. im not really a big fan on the republican side. that fair tax thing is kinda of a good thing and bad...but hey i rather stick with income tax. anyone hear about Ron Paul saying people should officially have the right to bear arms without any gun license?
If you say sooo....Quote:
Originally Posted by SPOOLIN
but the health insurance system as you call it is part of the healthcare system that we currently have.
might as well not worry about a license, anyone can snatch a gun and blow someones head off.Quote:
Originally Posted by yunglaosta
Depends on how you look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6dohcvtec
anyway you look at it you mean? if health insurance isn't in the equation than how will the healthcare system be funded strictly out of our pockets in full? some people can do that but i know I can't.
Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.