The Destruction an Reincarnation of 99SIs B16

[Vteckidd]

yeah i would invest in an OIL PSI gauge.

with this motor we will keep the revs under 9000 so the oil pump hould last longer than the last motor.

but still, at 50k miles, 10,000 rpms aint abd for oil pump life

[KevinT707]

yeah i would invest in an OIL PSI gauge.

with this motor we will keep the revs under 9000 so the oil pump hould last longer than the last motor.

but still, at 50k miles, 10,000 rpms aint abd for oil pump life

I've been thinking about getting gauges next, including the OIL PSI. What PSI does oil range at on a normal basis & what bad PSI for your oil?

Also, what oil pump am I running & should I be worried? Cause I'd hate to see my motor go down like 99Si

Thx

[Vteckidd]

oil pressure depends on what your engine temp is

at cold startup, some motors see 40-50lbs

by operating temp, oil pressure should be between 15-30psi depending. VTEC needs 60psi of oil pressure to operate

anything under 10psi is bad, especially under WOT conditions. you obviouly want the most oil pressure in the higher rpms to keep from having your bottom end starving for oil. cavitation is the #1 reason for spun bearings.

i cant stress this enough, 99SIs OLD motor saw 50,000 miles of HARD ABUSE. he revved it to 9500+rpms sometimes 10,000 rpms. He had a VTEC ITR oil pump (same as GSR) and it failed after 50k miles.

the higher you spin the motor, the more MOVING parts fail. Moving parts include: distributors, alternators, oil pumps, rods (rod bolt failure/stretch).

Kevin you should be fine because you dont spin your motor high all the time. but i would reccomend swapping oil pumps every 30-40k miles on a motor seeing more than 9000rpms

[BABY J]

Kevin - if u are spraying as heavily as I am (100 shot) then oil TEMP is prolly just as important. I never knew how quickly temp rises on the gas... all I thought was "reduce timing, colder plugs and spray the shit out of it." Grab an oil temp gauge and watch what happens the next time MSPI straps u down to tune on the bottle. Temps rise FAST (even on a synthetic - I run RP), even if you are not spinning to eleventy billion. It's ALSO amazing at how fast temps normalize after you let the motor idle off the gas. I have been learning so much shit lately it's crazy. A little here, a little there - PMing Mike Jawnz all the time and few other smart people that I know. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't wanna learn SHIT unless it has to do w/ my setup - LOL. Too much to know!! HA HA.

[99SI]

I may go buy a cheap autometer oil pressure gauge at summit. I can install it in the big gigantic hole where my radio used to be. I think my car is louder through the exhaust than it was with the damn exhaust leak! wow. The tone of the exhaust is much deeper than the B16 was as well. My was whistling today while I was driving and there was a vibration to the whistle b/c of the exhaust! I have been having to use hand signals out the window to indicate a right or left turn b/c my blinkers do not work. lol. I think I have that figured out now. It's just nice driving ol' blue again, after driving Cadillac's and Lincolns that float down the road I forgot how it felt to actually feel every pebble in the road through the suspension!

[99SI]

Kevin - if u are spraying as heavily as I am (100 shot) then oil TEMP is prolly just as important. I never knew how quickly temp rises on the gas... all I thought was "reduce timing, colder plugs and spray the shit out of it." Grab an oil temp gauge and watch what happens the next time MSPI straps u down to tune on the bottle. Temps rise FAST (even on a synthetic - I run RP), even if you are not spinning to eleventy billion. It's ALSO amazing at how fast temps normalize after you let the motor idle off the gas. I have been learning so much shit lately it's crazy. A little here, a little there - PMing Mike Jawnz all the time and few other smart people that I know. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't wanna learn SHIT unless it has to do w/ my setup - LOL. Too much to know!! HA HA.

I tried to call your ass the other day and you done changed numbers up in Indy. Give me a shout. You should still have my number. If you don't PM me with yours.

[BABY J]

Here is my setup - I got them all from Arrowspeed excpept for the pod, I got from Summitt. I will post pics when the bottom of the sky closes up - holy mother of God the rain here. Here are the ATM part #s (all are 2 1/16th) or 52mm. I got the short sweep elec.


ATM22401 - triple gauge pillar
ATM3327 - OIL PSI
ATM3374 - NOS PSI (expensive Kevin, but kool ass gauge)
ATM3375 - AF (make sure you get 1 for NB or wideband, they are not interchangeable - I found out the hard way)


99SI - I will give you a call tonight. Yeah I got an Indy number now

[KevinT707]

Kevin - if u are spraying as heavily as I am (100 shot) then oil TEMP is prolly just as important. I never knew how quickly temp rises on the gas... all I thought was "reduce timing, colder plugs and spray the shit out of it." Grab an oil temp gauge and watch what happens the next time MSPI straps u down to tune on the bottle. Temps rise FAST (even on a synthetic - I run RP)

I'm not spraying heavily (55 shot), barely enough to even need colder plugs & pull timing . Yea I like the idea of having a nitrous gauge (52mm) but its just too expensive plus I have one on the bottle already anyway. So what temperature range does your oil temp go to, from idle (warm) to running it hard on motor, then spray. I remember reading that 310 degrees is about max you want your oil to get.. correct me if I'm wrong.

[BABY J]

I dunno about max for RP oil - I'd guess that RP can take more of a beating than conventional oil.

Where YOUR normal operating oil temp is depends on how cool you have the motor running. With/ respect for power production, the VERY BASIC function that A/F ratios do (to a TRUE engine builder) is temperature control. Basically, "how cool do you want to motor to run - which is almost directly proportional to how LONG do you want the motor to last" (that's a direct quote from Jim Stewart through a conversation w/ him I had at his shop when I 1st got here)? I have seen as high as 50 degree temp spike on the 100 shot (doesn't sound like much but that's a lot for a 10 sec burst of spray man). The weird thing to me is that less than a minute later it's back to normal. But I'd bet that a "basic" off the shelf motor oil will heat faster, but cool slower than the RP. So it can get dangerous pretty quickly when you are playing a lot. I am not gonna test that theory on my block though - you try.

The more I play w/ spray, the more I learn about shit that people do not even consider (outside of timing and plugs), or just never told me about.

PS: a 55 shot is enuff to warrant timing/plug changes man. Whoever told you that it's not lied.

[loneSTAR]

kinda not related, but....
With the RAGE header, does it hang low like a standard 4-2-1? Or does it sit closer to the oil pan. Reason being, I am interestd in getting one, but my car is pretty low and do not intend to raise it.
Sorry for whoring it up, but don't know anyone else with the header!

[BABY J]

^^ What engine/chassis combination? And what springs? And what size wheels/tires?

[loneSTAR]

EG
B17
ground controls with koni's
16" with 205/40's

Used to have a Bisi on my old DC, but i can't seem to get them on the phone and they have nothing in stock

[99SI]

EG
B17
ground controls with koni's
16" with 205/40's

Used to have a Bisi on my old DC, but i can't seem to get them on the phone and they have nothing in stock

My header is not a rage header but it is pretty similar, SMSP design. Mine tucks up much closer to the car than my DC 4-1 which hangs very low. On my car the oil pan would be in more trouble of hitting the ground than the manifold. But I think the Rage and my header may have enough difference to make the comparison not mean much. BTW, my shit is on the dyno right now for final tuning.

[BABY J]

I wish we had live webcasting of MSPi dyno sessions!!

[99SI]

no shit, me 2. I am antsy as hell waiting to hear. I have consciously made myself not call, pm, or AIM. I'll wait to hear.

[Vteckidd]

made ok numbers. im happy with it, i think charles said it was 172/112

no quite the 180 i wanted but oh well. I think he needs to switch cams, as i have never gotten the numbers i wanted out of these particular M22s.

Not bad for an OEM block with a stock ported head. I was shooting for 180, we are about 8whp off, so im gonna try to procure a set of PRO1s to see if i can get to that number.

his b16 made more power LOL. but this one has more TQ an a fater midrange. somehing is rong cause it makes power to 8500, so there is def a restriction somewhere.

ive never seen a 1.8l make power that high, and have such low peak hp an tq

[BABY J]

Is it broken in? Maybe after 800 - 1000 miles strap down again.

[Vteckidd]

yeah hes got 800 miles on it. I wasnt there when they tuned it, but id like to see the a/f chart.

Hes making about the same numbers my old motor did (my first OEM GSR). i was hopinh to get lucky and make more, but apparently not LOL.

he should still enjoy it, im anxious to test another set of camshafts.

[BABY J]

Well if u wanna build a stroker B16 that's my next project. Cash/block in hand - LMK. I'd like to see what u guys can come up with. MSP can do everything except the head.

[99SI]

I was a bit disappointed in the final numbers, however, after thinking about it the difference in the power band will make the car much quicker than it was before. Hitting the same horsepower 1,000 rpm sooner will make for a much quicker time getting back to peak horsepower after shifts, especially with my gearing. As Mike said, he wasn't there. I believe the tuning was mainly done to get to an A/F range and maybe some ignition timing. The cam gears are at 0,0 so there is still some power left to pull out from playing with cam timing. I think with a little more overlap, exhaust maybe retarded 2 deg. there will be some more power in it. I am just thankful to have a car that is performing well and can be driven all out. With the lower RPM range this motor should be much more reliable and have a much longer life span. Thanks again go to Scotty @ digitalboxtuning, Charles, Mike and the rest of the mainstream crew, without them none of this would be possible at all.

[Black R]

don't be too disappointed with the numbers..... that's all they are.

does the car run well? pull hard? smooth pull from 1000-9000rpm's? Then that's what matters. Peak numbers are just that - it's the area under the curve and the shapes of the curves that's important. :thumbup:

I've been on the long, hard allmotor road for sometime, and let me tell you there are many bumps along the way!

[99SI]

I appreciate the kind words. I agree peak numbers are nice, and to be truthful the main reason I wanted to see some high numbers was to be able to brag for mainstream. I don't care myself about the high numbers, as long as the car has a fat powerband and pulls hard within the rev range. I expected higher, because of the changes we made to the new motor. I hope to pick it up tonight and be able to really see how it runs. I do believe it will be a much quicker car even with the same hp numbers as before.

[boosted_nonv]

nice, good liuck with the new build

[scttydb411]

the powerband is much better across. i laid out the best run on the last motor vs. the current and the powerband looks much better even though the peak # isn't what was expected.

i think you'll enjoy it and you won't have to rev it out as much as before to get your power.