Car Dealerships Blocking Online Car Sales by Tesla? Good or Bad ?
I found this article on cnn and i cant realy believe that Tesla-Model business model is threat to the classic American auto-mobile franchise. Seems to be personal prefrence issue . whats your take?
Tesla takes on America's car dealers - May. 20, 2013
Hmmmm. My take is that this is gonna blow some conservatives minds. Lol.
Free market!! Wait....Wut?
LMAO
The problem is that there's a little state by state law that says car manufacturers have to sell their cars through franchised dealers. Thats why you see a lot of cars sold together at the same dealership, and why you can buy Maseratis at the Ferrari dealer. That's how it's always been. Tesla wants to do it differently. Tesla wants to manufacture its own cars and operate its own dealers at the same time, effectively removing the middle man from the car buying process completely.
The auto dealers association doesn't like this because other manufacturers will follow suit. Its cheaper for the manufacturer and its cheaper for customers, but at the same time, it'll cut some jobs.
So is this case where Big Money Lobbyist trying to prevent the Natural evolution of car Buying.
Kind of. Advocates for the free market tend to protect themselves. In this case you're free to buy a car from wherever you want, just as long as its from a franchised dealer, and the dealers have enough money to keep it this way as long as possible. Lol.Originally Posted by MagicMayu
Sure Tesla could run into anti-trust law problems if they go about it wrong, but these guys seem to be doing ok so far...
I wonder why they are doing so well - these Senators seem to understand why Apple has such a high profit margin:Sure Tesla could run into anti-trust law problems if they go about it wrong, but these guys seem to be doing ok so far...
Senate panel says Apple avoids billions in U.S. taxes
"The secret to Apple's business success isn't in the aluminum and the steel and the glass of an iPhone," Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the panel's chairman, said Monday evening. "The genius is the ideas that bring those elements together in an elegant package. That intangible genius is intellectual property ... nurtured and developed here in the United States. And yet, it ends up that most of the profits are shifted to a tax haven."
Aren't you the one advocating that we all pay higher taxes for the good of society? But here we see the company that you just lauded, not paying much in taxes at all?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Sorta like government bailing out Airlines with Shitty Service, when they should just keel over and die, government Screams "CLEAR" Revives them ,and they get back up , just to show the consumer a big middle finger.
This isn't about Apples tax avoidance. They were the first corporate manufacturer I could think of who manufactures and sells the majority of their own products first party
You got it!
It's still ugly though. I bet dealerships will be a thing of the past in the future. You just go online, pick your car and pay with it with your RFID chip. If you default on the loan, they'll repo your kidney.
It makes it a lot easier to do when you don't have to pay taxes and can keep reinvesting your money into advertising, branding, and manufacturing. Outsourcing the manufacturing to Foxconn, which is known for how badly it treats it its workers, and for the toxic chemicals that it exposes its workers to, shows how thoughtful Apple is in regards to looking out for the people, right? After all, Foxconn had to put up nets around their buildings to keep people from jumping off them to commit suicide, yet Apple still kept all of their production there.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The suicides. This is a problem of statistics. Your average company may employ 5000, and have 1 suicide every 10 years. Foxconn employs and houses what is essentially a major US city. More than 1 million people, with the majority of them in China. Suicide rate will be higher based on this alone. Not to mention in east asian culture, where honor is a key component, suicide is more prevalent anyway. Apple wont leave because Foxconn wont let them. They contribute too much to Foxconn and the economy there.
Even though Apple is only one of many firms who have their components manufactured there, they stepped up an launched an investigation into working conditions within Foxconn. So because of its size, the lack of government regulation there, the culture, and that theyre not the only people who have their components made there, Its hard to really link any of this to Apple. Apple just happens to be the new huge player on the block, so they're an easy target.
Put away the pitchforks, Galaxy users.
18 attempts, and 14 successful in 10 months - and you just write them off like that.
Apple can't leave? What kind of crack have you been smoking?
So, it's just that Apple is getting picked on? LOL. Apple knew exactly what conditions where there when they set up shop. they knew that the labor conditions were poor, and chose to move manufacturing there.
I have bought 2 i5's, and 2 i4's, but only one GS3...... hmmm, seems that I don't have a problem with the way Apple works. I just point out how your lauded company does the exact opposite of what you claimed businesses should be doing - go re-read some of your old posts.
End result - Apple make BILLIONS, and pays almost no taxes IN THE WORLD. They help no one but themselves. Re-read what you said last year about corporations and taxes.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
What a bunch of petulant children...and by this I mean the ADA and the other minions who really think Tesla's sales plan is anything for them to worry about. What a bunch of crybabies.
Good for Apple on not contributing to the US government machine. All big business have their ways of paying less on taxes...it's been like that for a long time.
02' Miata
Amid the controversy, does apple still build their products there, or do they not? They maintain a mutually beneficial partnership.
-Apple gets affordable labor
-Foxconn gets work
-Chinese economy gets a boost
-Customers get cheaper devices
-Working conditions within the facility are better than other companies in China, and have improved since Apple partnered.
-Suicide rate within Foxconn is lower than the US
So whats the issue?
Yes. Its apple thats getting picked on. You refused to recognize the host of other companies that do business there, including microsoft, samsung, nintendo, acer, dell, sony, nokia, motorola. All of them also know the working conditions in China and continue to produce products there. What do you believe is different about apple?So, it's just that Apple is getting picked on? LOL. Apple knew exactly what conditions where there when they set up shop. they knew that the labor conditions were poor, and chose to move manufacturing there.
And the US economy and the Chinese economy. But I'd suppose they're no one special, right?End result - Apple make BILLIONS, and pays almost no taxes IN THE WORLD. They help no one but themselves. Re-read what you said last year about corporations and taxes.
I picked apple because they're the first company I thought of that closely mirrored the situation I was explaining with Tesla. No other reason than that.
I know exactly what I said about corporations and taxes. My thoughts on that issue havent changed.
Apple literally changed the computing industry on almost every facet. In this instance, they've gamed the system so that they can sell their own products without bumping anti-trust laws. They offer their product in other stores, while offering a premium experience when you buy from within. This makes for a better product, and they can control the costs. Thats why that store stays packed like you see in that picture.
Tesla could easily model their business after apple, but it seems like they want 100% control of their product. I understand monopoly laws, but we're not talking about GM or Honda or VW here. Tesla isnt going to be squeezing out any competition any time soon with a $60k electric car.
LOL.
You know that I have no issues with how the tax system works with corporations - we've had that discussion before.
As for the suicides, how many Walmart employess jumped to their deaths in 2010? Walmart employees 1 million MORE people than Foxconn, yet they don't have as many suicides. And you have to admit that they pay pretty low wages. It's not like Walmart employees are getting rich there.
Microsoft hasn't had antitrust suits against it by governments? Here's some info for you - all of the corporations are manufacturing in China simply because it's more profitable for them, due to the low wages that they pay there. It is not because they want to help China's economy, or any other reason - they just want to make more money for themselves. Apple is no different - and that is my point.
Apple pays low taxes around the world, and pays low wages in China - how are they helping the US and Chinese economies? If they were paying a lot, they wouldn't be going up on Capitol Hill today before the Senate. If they wanted to help, they would pay out more, right? After all, that is what Obama preaches - and you did too last year.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
On this we agree 100%.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
One store recently had an employee kill himself. If that store employed 100 people, that's one suicide per 100 employees. That rate sucks. I can't find any other cases of suicide in Walmart employees. But we obviously can't look at it by work suicide rates alone.
Many factors are involved we we look at suicide. The working conditions are poor in china to begin with. But conditions within the Foxconn campus are better than anywhere else in the country. The honor culture is also prevalent in East Asian countries, so suicides are unusually high anyway compared to Westernized countries. Skyscrapers across China and Japan have installed nets and fences, and have even gone as far as designing the buildings with excecutives offices on the bottom floors, rather than the tops like you would see anywhere else.
Microsofts anti-trust suit had to do with their packaged software. AT&T's suit had to do with them attempting to monopolize.Microsoft hasn't had antitrust suits against it by governments?
Sure. They probably use Chinese labor because its cheaper, however, they recently studied this in their efforts to move production stateside. They've found they can produce some devices here and still turn a profit and deliver the same quality and price. They're set to make an announcement soon as far as what they're making here. But it still helps their economy. The production of their devices there employes A LOT of people, and they're set to raise wages there as well. All these people spend money in China. This is an economic benefit. If Apple packed up and left, lay offs would be astronomical. They won't leave. And Foxconn would do anything they could to keep them there.Here's some info for you - all of the corporations are manufacturing in China simply because it's more profitable for them, due to the low wages that they pay there. It is not because they want to help China's economy, or any other reason - they just want to make more money for themselves. Apple is no different - and that is my point.
Aside from the amount of money apple spends there, they're no different than any other company that does business with them. So why is it somehow apples fault that people jump to their deaths and the working conditions in China suck compared to other developed nations. Take it up with the Chinese government. All those other companies make components there too. if Apple is culpable, they all are. Apple is just the focus because they're at the top right now.
Apple also employs a sizable amount of people here in the states too. There are probably 100 people employed at every Apple store across the country. And ive never seen an Apple store that wasnt busy. The business they bring in contributes to other nearby businesses. Not to mention their research and development labs and campus at Cupertino.
Economic benefits aren't limited to tax liabilities. Sure, they could pay twice what they've paid, and not feel a thing. My contention is with companies who game the system, itemize every last deduction, and then use their size to preach about how much they pay, and how big of a burden it would be if their tax rate went up a couple percentage. I've not once (at least while Jobs was in charge) heard that argument from Apple. If you're gonna itemize and get the most back you can by law, fine. If you're gonna game the system and make tax shelters for yourself, shut the fuck up about it and don't complain about how bad you have it being a multi-billion dollar company and having to pay a few extra million. No one you're preaching to, who makes on average $30k and pays 20% of their income to taxes, gives a rats ass how much you have to pay.Apple pays low taxes around the world, and pays low wages in China - how are they helping the US and Chinese economies? If they were paying a lot, they wouldn't be going up on Capitol Hill today before the Senate. If they wanted to help, they would pay out more, right? After all, that is what Obama preaches - and you did too last year.
I couldn't give less of a fuck what Apple or Verizon or GE or Walmart pay in taxes. Pay as little as you can by law. I do. What I do give a shit about is the incessant bitching about how much of a burden 10% of a billion is to you (the multi-nationals) while you sit on multi-billion dollar reserve cash while half the country is doubly upside-down on their mortgages with their 401ks wiped out. Save it. We're tired of hearing it.
The Walmart ratio there is 1:2.2 million, not 1:100. Foxconn is not rated by building, but by the whole company. Apples to apples - you should know this.
The working conditions on the east coast, such as in Shanghai, are not as bad a Foxconn's campus. Some of my wife's family lives in Nantong and some in Hong Kong, and I've traveled overseas - don't tell me about conditions in China.
And we heard about them then. Apple isn't being singled out - all of these companies have their own issues. Apple is essentially acting as if they were a monopoly with most of how they do business, but they aren't getting called out on that. All of these companies push the rules - and my point is that Apple is not a special company.
So, it's not Apple's fault if someone jumps off the roof, but it is a gun's faults if someone pulls the trigger?
Lots of companies employ lots of people - but these other companies pay taxes - Apple is avoiding paying anything. The reason that you haven't heard Apple say anything is because they know that doubling it would just take them from 0.5% to 1% - hardly the same as a company going from 20%-30%.
You want to claim now that Apple is benefiting the economy by employing people? That is what I told you last year, and you kept up that corporations needed to pay more. Looks like you might finally be learning - good for you.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
If its only one person from Walmart who's ever committed suicide. And Foxconn's operations are unlike anything we have here. Up to 500k employees live and work on site.
Where have I said its a guns fault if someone pulls a trigger?So, it's not Apple's fault if someone jumps off the roof, but it is a gun's faults if someone pulls the trigger?
Verizon and GE were net tax consumers in 2011. That's why I listed them. There are plenty of corporations paying less than 35%, and honestly, if you are paying 35% as a billion dollar corp, you might want to consider getting new CPAs. Obviously, apple paid somethingLots of companies employ lots of people - but these other companies pay taxes - Apple is avoiding paying anything. The reason that you haven't heard Apple say anything is because they know that doubling it would just take them from 0.5% to 1% - hardly the same as a company going from 20%-30%.
Nothing has changed. I still don't think it's a bad idea if corporations paid more.You want to claim now that Apple is benefiting the economy by employing people? That is what I told you last year, and you kept up that corporations needed to pay more. Looks like you might finally be learning - good for you.
And if you've been to China, then you and I both know Shanghai isn't a fair depiction of the average working conditions of China.
You could only find one Walmart suicide, and they have almost double the number of employees. The claim from you was that Foxconn's rate was lower. It wasn't a true statement.
Not the gun's fault, but ban assault style weapons - got it. LOL
Apple gamed the system, just like the other companies. They weren't in business to help others, they were in business to make themselves a financial success. What was Obama's speech about again?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Shanghai has good and bad areas - just like every other city in the world. If you travel China, you will find that the cities near the coast are quite prosperous. If you go inland, there you can go find people living in poverty, and as farmers. Many travel to the cities to work in construction for a while, save up money, and then travel back to their family homes in the country.
Even Hong Kong has this structure - Central is very rich, and New Territory is where those with less money live.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The days of paying $3000 for a pc are gone only do to parts coming in from china , is also reason a basic laptop can be purchased for $200 at Walmart. The issue the Tesla is Selling Direct to Consumers cutting out the middle man and is charging a no haggle straight-up price. But Texas Automobile Dealer Association is trying block them from doing so. They rather by the Power and Force of government use legislation to block Tesla from essentially installing Computer Kiosk in a Mall Showroom. Its Just Stupid.
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