summer project: hybrid motor build

[Big J]

details on my summer project:

Mike Smith from Nissan Sport Magazine will be bringing his 2004 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V out from Colorado so we can throw some wrenches on this *****, get it put together, tuned, and up and running.

Howdy all!

Just wanted to start a new thread for our upcoming 8 counterweight QR25 engine build.

Appropriately named the “HQR” (for Hybrid QR) by Heidi during the first official 07 swap on her own personal Spec V, we too will be documenting a build using the 8 counterweight crank on our 04 project vehicle.

We are very excited about the project as we are breaking some new ground that will hopefully lead to more N/A and Turbo builds successfully using this swap in the future.

We are in the final planning stages (as well as waiting on some important custom parts like the pistons, rods, and turbo), but here is a little overview on what we have been up to for the last three months:

As long as everything comes together as planned (We are calling it "Plan A") we will be building a 400+whp monster that should safely spin somewhere between 7200 and 8000rpm using the 07 crank, stock 04 ecu and 04 crank angle sensor (with the funky 2007 crank sensor wheel).

So, here’s how its going to play out:

We are currently working with a company in Texas called Uprev that flashes Nissan ecus, who currently offer custom ecu tunes for 350Z’s, G35’s, Titan's and Frontiers. This is a huge breakthrough for the entire Nissan community as it allows for complete access to the ECU by Uprev tuners on those vehicles. That said, the QR ecus are very similar to the VQ series vehicles in design, so we are working hard with Uprev to make custom flashing available for SE-R’s ands Spec V’s as well.

Check out the current Uprev flash programs available click here and click here.

So far, I have successfully dumped the ecu to a file on my laptop and emailed it to Uprev where they are working on it now for us. As long as everything goes as planned we will be able to scale for MAF, injectors, mess with ignition and fuel tables/maps, throttle position, the works!

One glitch so far but easily correctable, the CAN wiring needed for Uprev’s program to “communicate” with the factory ecu was never wired in to the OBDII port under the dash like the rest of the Nissan model line (thanks Nissan!) so they have to be wired up in series from the back of the instrument cluster to the correct pin slots in the under dash OBDII port.

As near as we can tell so far, pre-04 models (and possibly 05’s) use a Gen I 512 ecu that will allow for storage of more than one custom map (which can be switched to instantaneously using the cruise control functions on the steering wheel). Gen II ecus are 1mb (we are still looking into it, but we believe 06 models came w/ these) and can store up to 5 maps (ie: valet, regular unleaded, E85, high octane w/ meth, whatever!) all switchable by the cruise control buttons. Sorry to sound wishy washy on this info, but we are in new territory here. Hopefully as we push forward, and Uprev gains access to other ecus than our 04, we will have better info for you guys. We can confidently say that the 04 ecu is a Gen I 512.

Another potentially important breakthrough: The MAF. We need to extend the MAF to be able to run boost higher than 14psi for this project, so we looked into using other model vehicles MAF sensors and housings. In our search we discovered that the 05+ Ford slot style MAF’s are very similar to those for Nissan vehicles. The only difference being the IAT sensor on the Ford MAF. Enter Professional Mass Air Systems who, within the past week, have worked up a a version of their HPX sensor to work specifically with Nissan vehicles. Basically, this means we can now throw an HPX MAF into a 3” MAF housing via the factory 5 pin connector and it will be able to handle up to about 650whp (slightly less if you only use the stock Spec V 2.75"ish housing). The HPX sensor will be a direct drop in and will include a software transfer-function generating tool to calculate for various housing sizes and curves to be used with Uprev's system.

For more info check out the PMAS HPX sensor click here.

We will be using a 3” MAF housing from VMP found here.

Mind you though, this is all contingent on Uprev being able to successfully patch the factory Spec V ecu to be able to interface with their current flashing software, but we are confident that they will be successful.

If for some reason it does not work, we will have to resort to "Plan B": conventional piggyback tuning and an externally mounted custom trigger wheel and CAS sensor.

Anyway, without further rambling, here are some parts pics and a list of components we will be using during the build to achieve our power and extended redline goals.













Bottom end:
Crank: 07 8 counterweight
Crankscraper: Teflon from crankscapers.com
Connecting Rods: Crower
Pistons: JE 9:1

Head:
Cams: Brain Crower
Extrude honed
Factory valves and retainers.
Springs: TBD (we are sourcing a couple of different spring types for testing)
Head Gasket: Factory 07

Turbo system components:
Turbocharger: Garrett GT3071R, .82 A/R, T3 Flange, 4 bolt housing
Intercooler: Treadstone
Turbo manifold: Treadstone
BOV: Synapse Engineering Synchronic
Wastegate: 40mm Synapse Engineering Synchronic
Piping: Treadstone
Blow thru 3” MAF housing: VMP Tuning
MAF: Mass Air Systems PMAS HPX slot style

Exhaust:
Custom 3” Downpipe (Big J)
3” Mid Pipe: Stromung
3” Catback: Stromung
3” electric cutout: QTP

IM/Fuel
Fuel Rail: Auto Gear
Custom Intake Manifold (Big J)

Transmission:
Flywheel: Spec Clutches
Pressure plate: Spec Clutches
Clutch disc: Spec Clutches Stage 3+

Other stuff:
Oil Cooler: B&M
E3 Spark Plugs
Water Meth kit: Snow Performance
Radiator: Koyo
Boost Controller: Turbo XS

Those who subscribe to the mag know we have previously plumbed the fuel system with 60 lb injectors, ss lines, Aeromotive FPR and high flow fuel filter, Walbro in tank FP, and return fuel system.

Stay tuned here for updates, and please grab a subscription to the mag to follow the full build! I will be running this as a three article series, starting with the engine build for the upcoming Summer 08 issue, followed by IM, intercooler piping, MAF and exhaust for article #2, then complete tuning and power numbers to finish it off............................................... ...

Got the new specs on the Brian Crower Cams today. Looks like the previous numbers kicking around the boards are slightly off as they are now advertised as 272/264's:

New advertised specs for the Brian Crower QR25DE Cams:

Intake:
Lift - .424 inches
Duration = 272 degrees
Duration @ 0.050 lift = 230 degrees

Exhaust:
Lift - .399 inches
Duration = 264 degrees
Duration @ 0.050 lift = 220 degrees

Pretty aggressive actually.. not to mention they are going to sound like a damn racecar at idle!

Previously listed specs for BC and others:

Brian Crower
264 degrees intake duration/.425 intake lift
256 degrees exhaust duration/.400 exhaust lift

JWT cam specs:
264 degrees intake duration/ .447 intake lift
244 degrees exhaust duration/ .376 exhaust lift

Nismo cam specs:
262 degrees intake duration/.440 intake lift
242 degrees exhaust duration/.370 exhaust lift

Stock cam specs:
244/.407 intake
232/.340 exhaust

Mike

Intake manifold stuff:













So much for my break between quarters at school. Stay tuned for updates. The GT30 is going to keep us under the 500hp mark, but 2.5L will have no problems spooling it up.

Well, off to class.

[TIGERJC]

gl

[Big J]

look what the UPS man dropped off

[jew_boy]

damn i cant wait to see this finished

[Big J]

me too, I've been knee deep in this thing for months now, we've got a lot of big companies on board providing parts and support.

[Big J]

Did what I could today, should be welded up Monday or Tuesday after I square up the cut edges.

[Just_CHill]

Wow dude, this is going to be sick.

[Barefoot]

nice nice nice keep the updates coming

[93gcsedan]

Whats up big J, You meet me before I am the guy that picked Andrew (NISMO062) the first day of his trans swap, the tall read head. This build is going to be F-ing sweet, G\L.

[Andr3w]

Getting the ball rolling. Can't wait til its done. Good luck man.

[Big J]

one of you NA Spec V guys needs to jump on a set of these BC cams........... some one outside the emissions area, the lope might throw a check engine light

[RUFFIAN]

Thats going to hurt some ego's out there. Good luck.

[slostang]

hybrid as in gas/electric?

[Big J]

hybrid as in gas/electric?

Hybrid, as in using parts from diffent motors..........

[Master Shake]

Hybrid, as in using parts from diffent motors..........

sweet. what motor and parts are you throwing together?
doesn't the camry have some parts that will swap with the b16?

[Big J]

The heart of the build is the fully counterweighted crankshaft specific to the 2007-2008 Spec V. All the QR25DE Nissan motors received revisions in 2007, new intake manifolds, cams, cylinder heads, balance shafts, etc.

The problem with the old cranks is the half counterweighted design makes the crank unstable around 6900 rpms. All cranks will deflect or flex in the direction the forces from the reciprocating parts (rods and pistons) act on the crank. This is normal, but too much of it is bad as it can cause metal fatigue. Once you make the jump the heavier forged internals the amount of torsional flexing and the resultant torsional vibrations increases. The firing of 1 cylinder every 180* of crank rotation is perfectly timed to induce and magnify 1st and 2nd order vibrations. Hence the reason a lot of 4 cylinder engines have balance shafts. Balance shafts don't rid the motor of vibrations, they simply create vibration timed and tuned to counter the vibration of the motor, making felt vibrations less. Torsional vibrations are dampened by crank pulleys and some flywheels........ hence why I won't run a light weight pulley.

The problem occurs when vibrations against the axis of rotation show up. The single counter weight of the half balanced crank applies an asymmetrical force to counter the weight and forces of the reciprocating parts. As RPM increases so does the asymmetrical counter force. This causes the crank to flex against the axis of rotation , and in doing so it's the main bearings that have to deal with that type of flex. It made short work of destroying the motors team RTR was running in their Spec V cars. They made great power and would rev 8k plus but by the end of each race the bearing and main bearing bores would be beaten out of round and the motors would go in the dumpster at the end of each race weekend.

The New QR motors in the 2007+ Spec V's have a factory redline of 6800, but fuel cut doesn't kick in until 7100 or so. So in a built form should be good for a little more.

The rod to stroke ratio of the QR is the lowest of any motor in production, 1.43 to 1 so the piston speeds at full tilt are close to if not higher than an F1 car, lol. We could have gone with a longer rod and a piston with the pin raised in the body, but it was hard to justify the trouble of spec'ing out that combination. Plus with the improvements of the 2007 factory connecting rods we felt it would be beneficial to see and to show people what a rotating assembly w/ a stock r/s ratio and piston compression height is capable of.

Mike Kojima and JWT are undertaking a similar build with the exception of running a longer rod combination, less aggressive cams and a new 2007 crank, they were running the old crank. I've worked w/ Mike on cooling issues they had early on when the first motor suffered a failure due to overheating. Their motor is WAY more trick than this one because they are Mike Kojima and the JWT crew and have a bigger budget, lol. They managed 490 whp on 15psi w/ a GT30 and race gas on a stock motor (on the dyno only) while tuning the ECU. The GT30 is going to be absolutly maxed out on this build, we could have gone larger, but we want good responce. 15 psi to more than triple stock output is just a testament to how much this motor loves boost.

It's an open deck block but it's nothing like a Honda block. The belife all open deck motors need to be sleeved for big power is left over from teh early days of building Honda motors. Factory Honda Sleeves don't connect to the block untill a good way down so cylinder shift and wandering were common. Also the FRM factory bores in Honda motors don't like to be bored and will crack under pressure, and so started the tuner urban legend all open deck motors need to be sleeved. I don't fresee this being a problem with this motor, even with the open deck design.

[Big J]

Intake manifold should be getting stitched up today.

[Big J]

enjoy, big props to Lasertech Metal Works in Fayetteville for putting up with me on an increasingly regular basis, lol.

[Footefan52]

Nice build starting up here. When I had my spec-v I was real active on theVboard forums and there were a few guys hitting the 6XX whp mark but they still only ran a 12.xx at the track. One guy that swapped a VQ from the maxima hit low 11's and he had drag radials. Good luck on your quest for more power and another thing to start looking for is a good set of axles.

[Big J]

no one has made 6xxhp, and no one has run 11's (that I'm aware of). The V-6 swapped cars will run 12.8-12.9 on slicks.

No one I'm aware of has hit 500hp w/ a qr motor. Mike Kojima is making around 490 at 15 psi on a gt30 on the test mule stock block he's torturing on the dyno, but that's the closest to 500 on a QR. His built motor should be finished soon. Charles is making just over 500hp, but he's also running an SR20 crank in his motor and a 9k redline.

Turbo and injectors are going to keep us under 500hp, but the 7500-8000 redline, 3.8 final drive (down from 4.13) is going to give us the gearing to run a good 1/4, and the theoretical top speed of 233mph. We're also going to be pulling a lot of weight out of the car, reinforcing the strut towers and connecting them to the roll cage, as well as tying the cage to the A and B pillars.

The car is going to mainly be a track car (not 1/4 mile) so the axles should hold up. Stock Nissan axles will take a lot of abuse.

[Big J]

we'll just call it done, with the exception of drilling and tapping for vac fittings, and smoothing the TB inlet taper some more

:boobies:

[Romeo]

wow.thats some really nice work.cant wait to see the finished product.

[Big J]

No one makes jack for this car, except headers, CAI's, exhausts and there are a few cam choices, and 2 turbo systems (one of which was outsourced to me to do), so basically if you want parts, you have to make them or custom order them, because not many companies want to.

this intake should move a lot of air and work well with the cams, turbo, and new redline.

[Andr3w]

You think you will still be able to bring it to the Varsity in July?

[Big J]

A little Big J 3" downpipe action and alternator relocation

[Big J]

Big thanks to Z1 Motorsports for staying late and letting us use their press to press the gears off the tranmission main shaft so we can rock a 3.8 final drive from a 2002-2003 Maxima

some gear/mph numbers to look at w/ the 3.8 final drive and a 7500rpm redline

1st Gear 46.56 MPH
2nd Gear 75.61 MPH
3rd Gear 105.52 MPH
4th Gear 138.37 MPH
5th Gear 181.08 MPH
6th Gear 218.92 MPH

[yogi08]

z1 FTW! one of their guys bought my SR.

awesome build, at first i didnt know what i was looking at great looking stuff, and the welds look very nice! coming from a guy who use to weld steel for a living.

[Big J]

I hate working on cars................ but I'm alright at it............. Nursing school FTW

[Big J]

well the flow bench numbers look really good............ stock is around 213 cfm on the intake side @ 28", after extrude hone 241 cfm @ 28" on the intake and 196cfm on the exhaust side.

I ported the **** out of the cast turbo manifold and we've got a full 3" exhaust now, that w/ the custom intake manifold, big cams, and .82 a/r exhaust housing........... this thing should ****ing rip.......

[Big J]

engine porn :boobies:


(yes, I carved it into the block, then set it on fire)



(Mike says bring it)

[RUFFIAN]

Damn thats going to be a serious problem.........

[00CelicaGT]

J that shiit looks sick. when are u expecting it to be finish? looks like its bout ready to be droped into the car

[Big J]

beta ECU reflashing software and hardware............. got a few bugs to work out, lol

[00CelicaGT]

cant wait till it's finished. gotta take me for a ride. but first i gotta ride in ur car first so i can notice the big difference + i have yet to ride in ur's. good job hope the rest is smooth sailing,but u know how that goes.