opinions: which tow rig / daily driver.....ford, chevy,dodge
I am buying a tow rig and want to spend no more than 20,000 on it.
What opinions do you have about some of these diesel trucks. I am leaning more towards the fords. My neighbor owns a grading company and thats all he has ever used to pull his tractors is a ford.
give me your opinions
ford F-250 6.0,7.3
dodge cummings
chevy duramax
2jz tacoma
if youre gonna drive it daily get the Dmax. Better handling, more comfy.
i used to sell fords... f250
The Fords really are the best bang for your buck. I know the dodge "rather be cummin than strokin" fags will say otherwise, but cummins does NOT have a history of reliability. The for 6.0s are more reliable than the 7.3's, however the 7.3 is still a great engine. The Chevy is good, but meh, as much as I prefer Chevy's smaller trucks over the competition, I can't say I'm a fan of their 1 ton and up trucks. IF you're lucky enough to find a 2500 with a duramax that hasn't been beat to hell then I wouldn't advise AGAINST it, but it's much easier to find a nicer Ford in the price range you're looking for. Plus, I like the interiors on the newer Super Duties. They're really nice, and have a lot of features that they were the first to offer.
Bottom Line: I'd shoot for a diesel-powered F250 or F350 single axle.
my thoughts exactly!Originally Posted by KPowerEP3
Dodge is great n cheap but the tranny in them is shat
duramax is the most expensive truck out there..reliable but too expensive
ford is just right with the extras comfort and pulling power.
If i could mate a cummins with an allison tranny and an f250 chasis you would have the perfect truck! but we are not in a perfect world so ford it is!
depends on the year stay away from first year duramax and first year 6.0 i have had two f250 and two chevys with the duramax. the duramax chevys have the allison trans which is really good.
my fords were 99 and 2000 my chevys 2004 and 2005.
-IA MGMT is inappropriate.
My fleet has been running Ford E-350 diesel vans. The 2006-2007 Fords have all had transmission trouble. Every damn one of them.
I want to stuff the 6600 V8 Duramax Diesel in a Land Rover Discovery II w/ the allison gearbox and transfer case for a race car haulerhell, i don't even care if it doesn't have a transfer case...full time RWD would work just fine. 300hp @ just over 3k rpm's, 520 lb.-ft. of torque @ 1800. The rover would sound like a school bus
or maybe even a Range Rover 4.0/4.6HSE to really screw with people...
chevy duramax...
A wagon and a Red Bull. Way less than 20 grand.
Duramax.
Reps for everyone! Chevy just too damn expensive! dodge too cheap and ford is just right!
FORD FTW... as soon as i sell my green ek im getting one... 03 and up have damn good trannys and the motors are bad ass if they have had the recall done for the headgaskets...
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
Oh the madness. I could literally write like ten pages on this.
First off, you have to realize the difference between a commericial grade motor and a standerdized motor.
The duramax is not a commercial grade motor. The dont use it in big rigs, or work trucks, just chevys line of 2500s, and 3500s. Also, the duramax was designed off a gasoline motor, coverted to diesel and then turbo charged. ****ty design. They are slow as crap also. I was born and raised chevy but they make a POS diesel motor.
Now, the two commerical grade motors are the powerstroke and the cummins. Ill save the best for last and start with powerstroke. The powerstroke 6.0 and 7.3 were both designed off v8 style motors coverted to diesel and turbo charged. They follow the same principals of gasoline style motors and yes powerstrokes are good trucks. They have the best suspension you can get under a truck. Choice wise between the 6.0 and 7.3, the 6.0 will out perform the 7.3. It is faster, tows better and gets alot better millage.
Finally the cummins. The CTD (Cummins Turbo Diesel) Motor is hands down the best diesel motor built. (This is excluding any and all semi grade trucks) The CTD is an Inline Six Turbo Charged 5.9 or 6.7 motor. The 5.9 which is offered in 24 and 12 valve applications are what the big sled pulling guys use. Mainly the 12 valve. All CTD motors are designed off Semi truck engines (Inline six) because of the torque curve. They outpull anything in its class and will outperform any other diesel with the same money put in. Cummins all the way.
Go look at the guys who pull cars or flat beds for a living. 9 out of 10 times itll be a Cummins Dually.
Go look at the guys doing huge sled pulls, even the guys who have 100 grand in their rig still run a 12 valve Cummins.
Now, those of you who are ford biased: How come a ton of ford people swap a cummins in to make a so called "Fummins"?
My roomate is one of the most biased guys I have ever met on trucks, things american and what not. Hates anything un american or imported. Refuses to drive anything but fords. His whole family is like that and all his friends all drive fords whether it be gas or diesel. But the one thing he and they will admit is Cummins is a better motor any day of the week.
Next, the transmission. Yes dodge is known to have weak trannys. Stock autos are good for 400 hp as long as your not brake boosting it and being easy on it. It will drive fine without more wear and tear as long as you baby it at 400 hp. Those who race build their tranny with billet everything and a huge torque converter. Or get a manual, they come in 5 and 6 speed. Makes it fun to drive with all that power you have. Slap a nice clutch, billet input and output shafts and you can throw 800 hp at that tranny just like that and t case without problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLeQMG3j-6o
Watch the whole thing. This guy is one of the best in the sled pulling world. This was his old truck, his new truck is putting double the power down on the same engine just completely re done.
(Sorry for the long post, the redneck in me was really inspired haha)
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im not saying your wrong, but from what all ive seen, the ford motor is made by International, which makes commercial grade motors... why would they design it off a gas motor?
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
Yes and no.
Yes by company and what not.
No by sheer design. Go look at an engine blue print for powerstrokes. And one for say there gasser Triton motor. Not much difference.
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Also, the f650s and up come with Cummins motors because their powerstroke is not good enough.
More info:
Cummins - I6 - 7 Main Bearings for 6 Cylinders
Power Stroke - V8 - 5 Main Bearings for 8 Cylinders
Which is more bullet proof?
Or check out fordcummins.com
Also Alison transmissions are junk. Absolute crap. Stock they are alright but any type of mod and they blow up. Also, they are the most expensive to rebuild and the most complicated. Have fun trying to find a mechanic to rebuild them. They hate them because they are so damn complex. The allison 1000 is a better tranny but still... junk. Too much stuff to go wrong on it... just like the powerstroke and duramaxx motors.
(ill keep editing this for more info)
Last edited by Blitanicle99; 10-23-2007 at 04:38 PM.
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once again i will say it...............power stroke ftmfw!
dodge has a great motor but there trannys are shat and the interior stylings of the truck suck meh ballz!
ford looks good and runs good! ford hands down but if you are pulling something everyday..........dodge w/ cummings diesel and 6 speed manual tranny!
cheby is over price shat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that is all
ford f 250
Your buying a tow rig because you need something that can tow. Towing has to do with the power of the motor rather than the interior styling of a vehicle. I admit the fords (some of them) look better than most dodges. They just do. But cummins by far is a better motor. Your asking for trouble if you buy a ford. Be prepared to drop money in it regulary. Have fun when the injectors go out (when). They cost roughly 4000 dollars. Lift pumps are crap in them too.
Oh if I sound like an *******, sorry I am baked while typing this.
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Dodge and their trannys? are they bad?Your buying a tow rig because you need something that can tow. Towing has to do with the power of the motor rather than the interior styling of a vehicle. I admit the fords (some of them) look better than most dodges. They just do. But cummins by far is a better motor. Your asking for trouble if you buy a ford. Be prepared to drop money in it regulary. Have fun when the injectors go out (when). They cost roughly 4000 dollars. Lift pumps are crap in them too.
Oh if I sound like an *******, sorry I am baked while typing this.
ford is just bad? no good?
I want a ford but I also want something that is going to last me a while
the ford will last you a long ass time man.... the injectors are a recall, and so are the head studs.... I know many people that have one and no problems except the recalls and they fix that **** for free... Im going to buy one asap.... I would get a dodge but i heard their trannys are **** and to me they are ugly as ****...
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
Dodges have been known to have weaker trannies. However they have made big improvements. Stock automatics are now good for 400 hp. Be nice to it and it will last you. Same goes for any tranny. The reason people blow them up alot is cummins are the cheapest to modify so people see oh I only have to spend this amount to get another 150 hp and they dont even think about their tranny. They figure out that brake boosting is the hottest thing since pop rocks and blow their tranny up in 3 months.
Chevys dont even compare to Fords or Dodges. IFS sucks. Allison transmissions suck. Gas millage... sucks. Drive one... its slow as crap. Dodge hands down. Ask anyone that knows diesels. They will tell you that ford has the best suspension and dodge has the best motor. Most people wont even bring chevies in. The best possible set up is ford running gear and a cummins motor and built tranny.
Fords have so many more moving parts to break. Dodge not so much. And again dodge has 7 main bearings for 6 cylinders. Ford has 5 main bearings for 8 cylinders. What do you think is built better from the very start?
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GMC FTMFW
fords are all plastic. and have you heard about the new ford recall.... yeah... fords suck ass, but theyre pretty good lookin, ill give em that
GMC has the luxury and the bad-ass-ness of a chevy.
dodge is always another great alternative?
is this gonna be an 07/08 dually???
EF SQUAD FTMFW!!!!
The fords+dodge are solid front axles. Very strong but really handles like trucks. They are a not as maneuverable as the chevy's
I do agree with you that the cummings diesel is a very damn good engine and yes most people say the cummins is better.... im just saying that the powerstroke isnt near as bad as people are making it sound.... that is what im gonna go with, even if the dodge was thousands cheaper...
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
does any one know the model i should buy if i buy a ford?
Is there a certain year model?
Any problems or are they all recalls?
basically i am asking what are the problems with the fords and are they all recall problems?
I have heard these problems with the fords 02-04 250 ps :
injectors
oil leak or something and people blowin the motors
something with the ecu
the trannys arent as good in the 99-02 but the 7.4 was a very good and dependable engine... the 03 and up have bad ass trannys but the 6.0 have had some problems with head gaskets UNLESS they have had the recall done.... I believe they changed the 2004 with the new headbolts and havent really had a problem with the headgaskets... they also had a recall on the fuel injectors... then in 2008 they did a 6.4 twin turbo... dont really know that much with it yet but i do know it still has the bad ass tranny in it... im gonna go with a 2004 up when i get mine f250 or f350....
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
I was told to go with and 02 or older. But i am test driving an 03 today.
just check and see if the recalls have been done and you should be fine
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
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Ford's diesel drama drags on
Power Stroke woes anger buyers, drive up warranty costs
By Richard Truett
Automotive News / December 12, 2005
James and Penny Schrader have bought Fords faithfully for 30 years.
But persistent problems with the Power Stroke diesel engine in their 2004 F-250 pickup have unraveled three decades of brand loyalty. The Schraders, both 63, put a second mortgage on their home in Linden, Mich., to buy the $45,000 truck. Now they say they'll probably never buy another Ford.
"My husband wouldn't look at anything else," says Penny Schrader of their pickup. "But I don't care how good their product was in the past. They haven't treated me well as a loyal customer."
The Schraders aren't alone. Ford Motor Co. has been sued at least 58 times by consumers who bought 2003- and 2004-model Power Stroke trucks. The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data.
Not a minor flaw
This isn't a minor flaw that Ford can dispatch with basic service. The Power Stroke's warranty repair costs are battering Ford's bottom line. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts last March, a company executive acknowledged that Ford's diesel-powered super-duty pickups suffered from quality problems.
Ford has declined to estimate the cost of fixing those defective Power Stroke engines. But Ford has acknowledged that its warranty costs ballooned by $500 million through the first nine months of 2005, compared with the same period a year earlier.
Ford says it is honoring the engine's five-year, 100,000-mile warranty and doing everything it can to repair it. And newer versions of the engine in late 2004- and 2005-model pickups are more reliable.
But the problem will continue to fester. Ford already has sold more than 384,000 diesel trucks with potentially defective engines. And customers like the Schraders appear ready to abandon the brand.
Fixing its diesel problems - in terms of both engine performance and public confidence - is crucial for Ford because the stakes are enormous: Diesels account for about 25 percent of all F-series sales, and the 6.0-liter Power Stroke is a $5,000 option. The engine is offered on medium- and heavy-duty pickups, and had been offered on the discontinued Ford Excursion SUV.
From 225,000 to 250,000 diesel-powered F-series trucks are sold each year, at prices ranging from $30,000 to $50,000-plus.
If Ford can't put things right, the Power Stroke could cause a consumer backlash similar to that of Chrysler's problem-plagued Ultradrive transmission, which alienated minivan owners in the early 1990s.
"If this isn't fixed, and fixed right, and customer satisfaction put back on track, there will be fallout," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Ford will lose buyers to Dodge and General Motors."
Trouble from the start
The 6.0-liter Power Stroke engine has been troublesome from the day it was launched in the fall of 2002. It replaced a somewhat unrefined 7.3-liter diesel.
The powertrain was built by a longtime Ford diesel supplier, International Truck and Engine Corp., of Melrose Park, Ill.
For this version of the engine, International Truck designed a unique high-pressure fuel-injection system.
Most automakers use only electronic controls to operate the fuel injectors in a common-rail system. But the Power Stroke's fuel injectors are operated by a high-pressure oil pump as well as electronics.
According to several of the 150-plus complaints posted on the Web site of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, some trucks never even made it home from the dealership before the fuel injectors or turbocharger failed.
The engine also has been plagued with leaky fuel injectors, oil leaks, broken turbochargers, wiring harness troubles, faulty sensors, defective exhaust gas recirculation valves and bad computers.
Since the engine debuted three years ago, Ford has issued at least 77 technical service bulletins. That is far above average, even for a new engine. These bulletins tell mechanics how to diagnose and fix various problems.
By comparison, there have been eight service bulletins for GM's Duramax diesel V-8 and none for the diesel engine in the Dodge Ram truck. Both engines debuted at about the same time as the Power Stroke.
After just a year on the market, International almost completely redesigned the Power Stroke's fuel system, replacing or redesigning nearly 500 parts. That helped reduce the number of problems, but did not cure the engine of all its ills. Ford has voluntarily recalled the engine at least twice to fix various problems.
The troubles have caused a rift in relations between Ford and International.
The engine can be repaired and made reliable, says International spokesman Bob Carso. Engineers from Ford and International have fixed the problems that plagued the early versions of the engine, he said.
But Carso says the engine is extremely complex and requires "outstanding diagnostic capabilities" to properly identify and repair the faulty parts.
Less help from Ford?
When the Power Stroke's troubles surfaced, Ford tried hard to keep customers happy. In the summer of 2003, Ford took the unusual step of buying back 500 trucks, mostly because of fuel system problems.
But two diesel technicians say Ford has changed the way it deals with the engine problems.
"When they first started out with the 6.0-liter, Ford had a team that was looking over every bit of it and just doing whatever it took to get them fixed," says Mark Ward, a master diesel technician at Landers McLarty Ford in Bentonville, Ark. "And then that just shut off like a light when Ford found out how much losses they were having."
Ward contends Ford is trying to shift more repair costs onto consumers.
"We used to replace turbochargers left and right if the fins had any damage to them," he says. "Now they (Ford) won't accept a turbo back with any fin damage. They are saying if there is any (turbocharger) fin damage whatsoever, it has to be from a dirty air filter. You have to inform the customer that Ford won't pay for that. It's $700, plus the labor."
The fin is the part of the turbocharger that is driven by engine's exhaust system.
"When the 6.0 is running properly, it has much better performance than the 7.3 did," says Charles Ledger, a Ford master technician from Oroville, Calif. "Unfortunately, the 6.0 is plagued with sensor problems." Ledger dispenses advice on his Dieselmann Web site (intellidog.com/dieselmann/home.html).
Ford: No change in policy
Cisco Codina, president of Ford's customer service division, says Ford is not blaming consumers or trying to shift repair costs onto buyers.
"We have not changed any policies whatsoever as it relates to defective material," Codina says. "We don't try to put this blame on the customers. We will spend whatever amount of time and money necessary to help customers who have problems."
Not all of the Power Stroke's defects can be blamed on Ford and International. Consumers may cause problems by installing unauthorized parts that boost engine output. Aftermarket computer chips and exhaust systems can upset the delicate tuning of the engine and cause head gaskets to blow out, Ward says.
Last year Ford and International officials told Automotive News that the Power Stroke's troubles were over. But that turns out to be only partially true.
The engines made today have a better record for reliability, according to NHTSA (see story, above). But those 2003- and early 2004-model engines keep breaking down. And consumers are angry at having to return to the dealership time after time for "reflashes" - new software to be installed in the vehicle's engine computer or other repairs.
Getting better
The number of complaints for 2005 Power Stroke engines has dropped sharply compared with earlier versions since last year's redesign of the engine's fuel system.
But there still are thousands on the road that are not reliable - and may never be. Design deficiencies in some faulty parts, Ward says, have not been addressed.
"If you look at the part number at the new one you are putting on, it's identical to the one you are taking out," notes Ward, the Arkansas technician. "If you start out with something cheap, what do you expect to happen?"
Ward details the engine's troubles and Ford's technical service bulletins on his Web site, flatratetech.com.
The Power Stroke's troubles are reminiscent of Chrysler Corp.'s A-604 automatic transmission - dubbed Ultradrive - that was introduced in Chrysler minivans in 1989. The first versions of the electronically shifted transmission had more problems than a calculus book. Technicians couldn't fix them, consumers were fuming, and Chrysler ended up replacing thousands of transmissions under warranty.
But Codina says Power Stroke has generated more complaints than rival diesels simply because more diesel Fords are on the road.
Says Codina: "We try to address each and every (problem) as we became aware of them. I am sure I am not aware of all of them. But if they (consumers) come to us, we try to do our very best. But today if you have one or two problems, people are not very happy with you."
One more chance
As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model.
After consulting with a lawyer, the Schraders took the deal. The couple left Michigan a few days later for a road trip West. But they are still angry with Ford because they had to spend a year trying to get their truck fixed.
And they will not cut the new truck any slack. If the new truck so much as sputters, James Schrader says he will pull into the nearest Dodge dealership and trade it for a Ram.
im still getting a ford
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
i AM SO CONFUSED NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. I talked to the guy and he is saying that there has been no recall work done on the truck . one injector is all that has been replaced and he has had the truck for 75 ,000 miles
someone do some research. are they still honoring recalls???????????? if you buy the truck used from an individual? that is the question of the day!
RECALLS STILL BEING DONE?
get the vin and call the local ford place
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
I've always been a ford truck girl, myself... My dad had an 87 ranger that I drove into the lake and into the ground, and I've had an explorer and a ranger. We used to use F350s to pull horse trailers at Silverthorn Farms, where I used to ride... I've just grown up around ford trucks. My mom and dad both currently own chevrolets.. my mom has a tahoe and my dad has an impala. Both of them are 2000 model vehicles, and both of them have been plagued with issues. The tahoe less than the impala, but the tahoe it's little things that piss you off.... LED's out on the climate control panel, the antenna snapped off, 4wd doesn't work properly, the brake light wiring sometimes gets moved because it is RIGHT above the brake pedal and you cruise all day with your brake lights on... little stuff like that that piles up and eventually just gets you really pissy in the vehicle you have.
I'd never buy anything but a ford.
Fuck stance. Stance is for kids in skinny jeans with Justin Beiber haircuts. You don't need stance when you got swagger.
agreed 100%I'd never buy anything but a ford.
Vtec Keep Left, Slow Traffic Keep Right....
Chevy
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