K series guys ( well mainly gregg lol)

[h22 jones]

I keep hearing all this k series talk and then i got to thinking . Has a k series won first in any event at import show down? Not just all motor . Im talking about any class?

Boy sure makes me want to go out and spend three times as much as you should on a swap lmfao.

I dont want to hear about who in california is doing what . I want somebody to take there shit to the track around here and win then talk shit or go hide in the bushes (if there is enough room in there with gregg's big ass) lmao.

[big mac]

hahahahah damn lol

[1civic]

Yeah Bitches!!!

B SERIES FTW!!!







LOL.............

[big mac]

lol all about the h

[1civic]

No "H" in atlanta taking me down!! "I'm Rick James Bitch"!!!

[boosted347]

No "b" in atlanta is taking me down

[1civic]

No "b" in atlanta is taking me down

Guess you should come to Atlanta with a little money then...:boobies:

[boosted347]

Guess you should come to Atlanta with a little money then...:boobies:

Well damn money is something I dont have but you would need slicks and koolaid to hang....maybe
But jones' thread does have a very valid point, and im not a honda guy at all so im not bias at all

[Vteckidd]

yes there has been a few K Series that won the all motor street and pro classes in the southeast.

No turbo Ks that i know of have won anything.

There was a few CRX K Swaps running mid 12s 4-5 years ago that won a few events i entered. one guy was from down south, forgot his name may hve been tony? had a white 88HF with the hood cut and a k20a2 that ran mid to low 12s

but mainly its B Series or H Series for a reason, COST. It costs TOO MUCH to be competitive without sponsors with the K Series. B/H is just that much cheaper..........for now

[David88vert]

but mainly its B Series or H Series for a reason, COST. It costs TOO MUCH to be competitive without sponsors with the K Series. B/H is just that much cheaper..........for now

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

[112480]

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

David its simple, b and h's dont cost that much to get in the 12's these days(although its gonna be some money still) and k's can do 12's STOCK ALL DAY LONG!. The truth is to have a 12 sec K car is gonna cost more than a 12 sec b or h setup, BUT!!! here's the thing, with K series prices going DOWN DOWN these days, tis NO LONGER that much more for a STOCK k swap vs a SEMI built b or H setup to run 12's, but the bonus is that the K setup(done right) can run 9's all day long and drive back home whereas a b or h running 9's would have to be trailored and THEY WILL BE FUCKING HIGH STRUNG OUT MOTORS AS WELL!.

Dont let h22jones fool u man, a 300whp h2b would be pushing its limits defiently! i think there's a 350whp H series somewhere in the NORTH but when you find him, ask that guy how long that motor last and how many times he has to rebuild it. thats just one guy by the way and while ur up there, ask the other 20-30 guys who are making 350whp with their K series, how many times they have to rebuild theirs, THEN ask the 380-400whp K series guys(all of these are allmotor numbers by the way) how many times they rebuild theirs.

The whole point is YOU GOT TO PAY TO PLAY! Something i know ur used to hearing. In the honda world, DOWN HERE a lot of guys dont really want to pay to play. Down here the motto seems like its, "try to run the best times for the least money"!! Up north and out west they say the hell with that mentality!

[David88vert]

David its simple, b and h's dont cost that much to get in the 12's these days(although its gonna be some money still) and k's can do 12's STOCK ALL DAY LONG!. The truth is to have a 12 sec K car is gonna cost more than a 12 sec b or h setup, BUT!!! here's the thing, with K series prices going DOWN DOWN these days, tis NO LONGER that much more for a STOCK k swap vs a SEMI built b or H setup to run 12's, but the bonus is that the K setup(done right) can run 9's all day long and drive back home whereas a b or h running 9's would have to be trailored and THEY WILL BE FUCKING HIGH STRUNG OUT MOTORS AS WELL!.

Thanks for NOT answering my question.

I asked the cost. how much is it to buy a K motor, since a stock swap runs 12's (per your comment above)?
How much to "semi-build" a B or H?

[Vteckidd]

Thanks for NOT answering my question.

I asked the cost. how much is it to buy a K motor, since a stock swap runs 12's (per your comment above)?
How much to "semi-build" a B or H?

The motors STILL cost $4000+ for a STOCK swap. Type-R motor $5000+. Thats just an engine delivered to your door. Then you gotta factor in mount kit, KPRO, shifter kit, shifter cables, water pump housing mod, fuel system, wiring harness, axles, blah blah blah

Gregg likes to think his swap cost him nothing , and he does like to act like Moselys car is a super cheap setup. Its not complicated, but its not cheap either. Regardless if you do the work yourself or not, their cars have more money in them than they will admit.

As stated before, H2B will rival almost anything in terms of power, and cost.

What NO ONE has done is take the H23 OEM motor, done cams and a header/intake manifold and paired it with a 4.9 B16 Tranny then raced someone like Mosely. Id be willing to bet money on the H car in that scenario all driving being equal, and even if it lost it would still be FAR CHEAPER than a K 20 R swapped hatch

[Vteckidd]

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.

[Moseley]

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

[Vteckidd]

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

that wasnt the question. the question wasnt "whats the best platform to go all motor first then boost". it was "why arent there tons of K Swapped hatches roaming around"

:P

Agreed i had a supercharged "R" motor. I would have done a B20 GE block rods , pistons, and been good for 800whp (Supercharger wouldnt have made that) and still been cheaper than a K series. But i admit the K Series is a stout motor for what you get.

you invest money in the beginning to be able to do more. Like my CRX NEVER would have taken any shot of nitrous, your "stock" K series makes more power than my CRX and can take 75-100 shot with ease. Mine would have blown up.

Your "R" > My "R"

[112480]

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

[David88vert]

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.

Ok, so it seems like $4K is the real number.
That's what I was looking for. Now, figure the chassis and those coilovers, add real tires, and you have $6k in a car that runs high 12's - and we aren't figuring in any cost of labor.

[Vteckidd]

Ok, so it seems like $4K is the real number.
That's what I was looking for. Now, figure the chassis and those coilovers, add real tires, and you have $6k in a car that runs high 12's - and we aren't figuring in any cost of labor.

correct. Youre almost better off buying a car already swapped, its far cheaper. you can pick up GSR swapped EGs for prob $4500-5000 range. then go from there.

but yes, to run "12"s is not "cheap" by any means. Some people think that is incredibly slow, but id like to point out that a "high 12s" honda EG is prob fast enough to outrun almost ANYTHING stop light to stop light on the street. youll scare a lot of cars making 210-220whp on the street in a 2000lb chassis

[Dylan]

K20FTW!

[*EFilliated*]

Read my title. Have a nice day

K20FTW!

[Dylan]

Read my title. Have a nice day

Lol I would do an h or b swap but I enjoy my ac, cc, ps, abs, etc. so I will just stick to my slow factory equipped k series car.

[Moseley]

Read my title. Have a nice day

yawn

[Moseley]

I guess driving 150 miles to the track, bolting some slicks on a stock 2.0L w/ cams, and finishing runner up isn't good enough...

and I'm not so sure about california but up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

[112480]

up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Vteckidd]

I guess driving 150 miles to the track, bolting some slicks on a stock 2.0L w/ cams, and finishing runner up isn't good enough...

and I'm not so sure about california but up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

Jones said winners, not runner ups. And honestly yours is the fastest K series bolt on non built motor car i have ever seen. its freakishly fast for what it is.

Ive beaten and driven MANY K20 bolt on cars that were not that much faster.

Still, your car is a good $3000-4000 MORE than a B series or H2B counterpart. Most people are interested in spending that kind of money, FOR NOW

As far as race standings in the SE, i dont keep up with them nearly as much as i used to, but anyone running Street or PRO class 90% was B series till about 3 years ago when it started being H2Bs, i have seen very few Ks since that point.

[112480]

Jones said winners, not runner ups. And honestly yours is the fastest K series bolt on non built motor car i have ever seen. its freakishly fast for what it is.

Ive beaten and driven MANY K20 bolt on cars that were not that much faster.

Still, your car is a good $3000-4000 MORE than a B series or H2B counterpart. Most peopleDOWN HERE IN THE SOUTH are NOT interested in spending that kind of money, FOR NOW

fixed

[112480]

I keep hearing all this k series talk and then i got to thinking . Has a k series won first in any event at import show down? Not just all motor . Im talking about any class?

Boy sure makes me want to go out and spend three times as much as you should on a swap lmfao.

I dont want to hear about who in california is doing what . I want somebody to take there shit to the track around here and win then talk shit or go hide in the bushes (if there is enough room in there with gregg's big ass) lmao.

LOL! You know jones, my hands were on fire when i read this, BUT im gonna try to be calm as possible with this(shit talking wise). Mainly because i dont think i'll will be able to make showdown this year. just got to much going on with setting up down here(life, outside of cars) but hey at least i'll be able to make it next year in May and who knows, maybe i can make it this year so we'll have to see, but i SERIOUSLY doubt you will need me there to have fun. u have the other FASTER k series guys too compete/worry about

I mean what stock car can drive 150+miles to an event, slap some slicks on and run low 12's ALL DAY and slap the street tires back on and drive 150+ miles back home WITH NO ISSUES!!!????????........................ In case i lost you there, its called A K SERIES!!!!!

And why do you want to start at the bottom? Guys like u and bobby(unlike guys like DARKSTAR and such that HAVE to start at the bottom) should go straight for the top. i.e this thread should have been titled to Moseley, 05DC5s or/and Stretch. Those are the fast K guys(been shown over and over again) you should address

And i hate to bring up other regions but the TRUTH of the matter is that if u built 10 h2b etups all making 300whp, u would get CRUSHED if u took them up north or out west by K's because we down here in the south have always been behind the west and north with the imports. If importshow down went up north or out west, the list of winners would be 95% K series!(in my Obi-Wan voice) search ur feelings jones and know that i speak the truth!........... or u can just pull up youtube and watch for urself. pull up Honda Day 2010 and 2011 and tell me how many k series allmotor wins u counted then tell me how many h2b's u counted and let me know the results

And u know what, really its no excuse for us to be behind. I used to think it was about money(with the k costing more) but thats bullshit! because even down here in Mobile, these dudes have GOOD PAYING jobs and can afford k builds! but like in ATL and other surrounding SOUTHERN states are just too damn stubborn to do so. I mean really! a fucking dude comes up to me and say "damn man, that k series is nice!, how much it set u back? about 10k? haha.....etc etc" then i ask him "hey dumbass, how many times in the past year or two have u rebuilt ur turbo b or h series?" and he says only 2 or 3" i said "ok so how much did that cost u total?" and you know what he said???????????? NOTHING!! yea, he said nothing!, why? because he knows i was about to make him look like an ass.

Then the allmotor B or H guy will say "well i havent rebuilt mine period and its been running perfect for 3-4 years now" then i say" well thats cool man, what kind of cars have you beat on the street/highway and what quater mile times have u ran??" lol the most i hear is anywhere from 14's-low12's and on the highway they may beat a STOCK cobra......from 10 years ago. lol! Does this mean they cant? of course not, but its highly unlikely! How many guys do u think are out there like u jones, here in the south that actually have a fast h swap and have the knowledge that u have to keep that bitch together for years???????????????

The little TDC allmotor h car that runs low 12's that ppl like to brag on, ALWAYS have issues!! I talk to the owner all the time down here and he himself has told me that! lol! Its not we cant do it(people in the south), but ppl are just to stubborn/ignorant down here to do so and when you back them up in a corner with it, the ONLY defense they have is the k series "cost too much" and then when you ask them how much they've paid in the last 1 or 2 years(on their b or h swap), they shut down! I can understand its a matter of preference with some ppl but MOST guys its not!

I see it everyday jones, here and in ATL! Not everyone has ur knowledge on h's, not everyone has bobby experience on B's. You can build those h2b motors for darkstar and those other guys all you want, but the fact of the matter is they ARE NOT you, meaning when the SMALLEST thing is out of place that can turn into something huge, they will not be able to pick up on it in time. No i'm not saying joey doesnt know anything about h's, i'm sure he does, but he's not u. Just like if i were at the track, moseley or chunky could pick up on things faster than me in k-pro becuase they know it more than i do etc etc.

But as far as ur claim to no K series around here doing numbers(besides moseley), shit, there's really not many k series to show, so of course they're not doing anything. Down here in mobile(import wise) having a keries IS a waste of money, becuase i could build a fucking D series and put it into a 88 HF crx and BUST ASS!!!!! yeah, thats what i'm dealing with down here. lol! V8's are gonna be my main/damn near only competition down here once i get a new clutch

But have fun at import showdown if i dont see ya there

[boosted347]

Thanks for wasting my life with those short stories greg lol but they both said the exact same thing
1. k cost more
2. A stock k is as fast as a "built" h or b and cost about the same cost
3. Ks are reliable, but so are h&bs when built by intelligent people
4. And finally unfortunately this is the south, not out west or up north, so stay behind the h and bs (in competition sense) until the ks start winning all the events
All in all its up to the owner what they want to do, hell if you wanted to go fast and be reliable shoulda got a v8 by that I mean how many 11 and 10 sec 4 cylinders wander the street all day everyday, how many v8s?

[112480]

Thanks for wasting my life with those short stories greg lol but they both said the exact same thing
1. k cost more
2. A stock k is as fast as a "built" h or b and cost about the same cost
3. Ks are reliable, but so are h&bs when built by intelligent people
4. And finally unfortunately this is the south, not out west or up north, so stay behind the h and bs (in competition sense) until the ks start winning all the events

EXACTLY^^^ lol!

All in all its up to the owner what they want to do, hell if you wanted to go fast and be reliable shoulda got a v8 by that I mean how many 11 and 10 sec 4 cylinders wander the street all day everyday, how many v8s?

lol. thats true, but boosted, know that there are 11/10 sec 4 cylinders are out there!..........lurking(not me btw.lol)

[boosted347]

lol. thats true, but boosted, know that there are 11/10 sec 4 cylinders are out there!..........lurking(not me btw.lol)

o I know there are lol I know a few boosted ones around here...the all motor thing isnt real big in columbus, to be honest I don tg know of a running k swap here...but then again im not real big in the current scene being away at school

[DarKStaR]

Gregg, I know alot more than you think I do. I dont express much on here because I like to take in everything I can and learn as much as I can. Take mikes dad for example, I have learned ALOT sitting at the shop listening to him teach me stuff that I had no clue about. Oh and btw who do you think put my bottom end together...

[112480]

Gregg, I know alot more than you think I do. I dont express much on here because I like to take in everything I can and learn as much as I can. Take mikes dad for example, I have learned ALOT sitting at the shop listening to him teach me stuff that I had no clue about. Oh and btw who do you think put my bottom end together...

Oh i know you know a lot. I didnt say you didnt, i specifically said just not as much as mike jones. Example, mike jones can reconized a problem faster than you can at the track or the street concerning h motors and sometimes that makes all the difference in saving a motor. Does this means you dont know anything? OF COURSE NOT. Shit, u didnt run a 11.1@400whp in an integra from being dumb

[1civic]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

[boosted347]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

Not in the honda thing, but whats a motor/trans setup like that cost?

[Moseley]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

Stuff like this is why I can't stand the honda game sometimes. 307 torque at the wheels? these guys are fakes / scammers. It sounds like it shut down at about 8500. and I'll tell you there is not a single K in existence making 350whp below 9000 rpm.

its probably a stock K24 with cams and ITBs, from the looks of how far off that dyno is. realistic numbers are probably 200tq / 240whp.

[DarKStaR]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

[boosted347]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

Its a 14 second car with the houston driving mod

[David88vert]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

So, basically, you spend asbout $2500 on parts, do the swap, cut some weight, and get into the high 12s.

Or you can spend the same money on a TFS top end kit for a foxbody and run high 11's/low 12's.

What was the point of building a 4cyl Honda? Seems expensive to go so slow.

[DarKStaR]

el oh el