QFT but hey some people like 4 cylinders...not my cup of tea :goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
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QFT but hey some people like 4 cylinders...not my cup of tea :goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
In dream land, i perfer a 08' Gallardo built by UGR with thier stg 4 package and challange any, ANY car or BIKE to a race on the street:yes:. lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
would you pefer everone to have mustangs?? Thousands and thousands of mustangs???Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
Quote:
Originally Posted by 112480
No lolQuote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
Ill take this one...400+ whp busa getting reeled in at 200+Quote:
Originally Posted by 112480
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNX0...layer_embedded
Jones said winners, not runner ups. And honestly yours is the fastest K series bolt on non built motor car i have ever seen. its freakishly fast for what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
Ive beaten and driven MANY K20 bolt on cars that were not that much faster.
Still, your car is a good $3000-4000 MORE than a B series or H2B counterpart. Most people are interested in spending that kind of money, FOR NOW
As far as race standings in the SE, i dont keep up with them nearly as much as i used to, but anyone running Street or PRO class 90% was B series till about 3 years ago when it started being H2Bs, i have seen very few Ks since that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
LOL! WOW! Just wow! UGR FTMFW!!!!!:yes::goodjob: Listen to that fucking sound of the lambo!!!!
Im ready to see these monsters in person at tx2k12 :leghump: this video came about after tx2k11 when jonvon with a sprayed 300 whp busa lost to the UGR cars and brock davidson and shamrock racing were talking shit about how he couldnt ride, his bike didnt make that much power, etc and so shamrock went out and ran him and went 1-1 and was getting reeled in HARD by the car until it let out at *supposedly* 220 lolQuote:
Originally Posted by 112480
not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels
Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly
H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.
K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.
So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.
Stuff like this is why I can't stand the honda game sometimes. 307 torque at the wheels? these guys are fakes / scammers. It sounds like it shut down at about 8500. and I'll tell you there is not a single K in existence making 350whp below 9000 rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1civic
its probably a stock K24 with cams and ITBs, from the looks of how far off that dyno is. realistic numbers are probably 200tq / 240whp.
fixed:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
shit i'm about to...ahhhhhhh......nevermind....thought about the lambos to much..........Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
its ok it happens to the best of em lolQuote:
Originally Posted by 112480
Typical assertions that make me LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
just because you know how to doesn't mean everyone does. I can't count how many REAL foxbodies I've seen here in GA at commerce with 5k+ dumped into them and they cant get out of the 13.5-14.0 range. It's always been that way. 90% of the people don't know the formula, 10% do.
And usually the 10% dont have the financial means that the 90% do to make thier build a reality:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
Ha this is true but also goes the other way, you and some others on here know there shit but most people in the honda game dont...its a never ending debate...i know people with boosted civics that cant break a 13.9 and all motor cars with a good bit of money in em that couldnt break 14.0s its all a matter of setup when it comes to drag racing...now roll racing is different lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psiQuote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Not to mention you have...
coil packs
timing chain
variable cam
roller rockers
full and proper block girdle
about a dozen different tranny choices
all OEM
The motors STILL cost $4000+ for a STOCK swap. Type-R motor $5000+. Thats just an engine delivered to your door. Then you gotta factor in mount kit, KPRO, shifter kit, shifter cables, water pump housing mod, fuel system, wiring harness, axles, blah blah blahQuote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Gregg likes to think his swap cost him nothing , and he does like to act like Moselys car is a super cheap setup. Its not complicated, but its not cheap either. Regardless if you do the work yourself or not, their cars have more money in them than they will admit.
As stated before, H2B will rival almost anything in terms of power, and cost.
What NO ONE has done is take the H23 OEM motor, done cams and a header/intake manifold and paired it with a 4.9 B16 Tranny then raced someone like Mosely. Id be willing to bet money on the H car in that scenario all driving being equal, and even if it lost it would still be FAR CHEAPER than a K 20 R swapped hatch
that wasnt the question. the question wasnt "whats the best platform to go all motor first then boost". it was "why arent there tons of K Swapped hatches roaming around"Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
:P
Agreed i had a supercharged "R" motor. I would have done a B20 GE block rods , pistons, and been good for 800whp (Supercharger wouldnt have made that) and still been cheaper than a K series. But i admit the K Series is a stout motor for what you get.
you invest money in the beginning to be able to do more. Like my CRX NEVER would have taken any shot of nitrous, your "stock" K series makes more power than my CRX and can take 75-100 shot with ease. Mine would have blown up.
Your "R" > My "R"
:goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
yeah the 90% / 10% rule doesn't apply to mustangs only. it's the same way regardless of car. Anyone who knows Meng with the red SRT-4... it's a perfect example. I bet there's 50 SRT-4s in ATL with more money into them that are nowhere near as fast as his.Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
id prob take the B Series 4.78 over the 6 speed k20R tranny. But i really dont know enough about it i just know the 4.78 is $800-1000 all day :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
the K Series engine is vastly superior to the B in tech, that is without question and i agree 100%.
:yes::yes::yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
used k series R tranny can be had for $1200 in very good condition:goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Yea that car rolls the fuck out if its the same one, i remember him from spring showdown lol...im ready for showdown to get here or some sort of track outing...im ready to get mine back on the track :ninja:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
I wish my trans was $800-$1200 :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by 112480
And mike i was being honest about me and moseley k swap not costing that much. but it semms that you have always been mad at that fact. I didnt say ALL k builds are cheap but not ALL of them are expensive either.
well, all ill say is .........Quote:
Originally Posted by 112480
Luis with his 4.9?? "R" tranny or whatever it was and 230whp vs my 200whp 4.4 B 16 tranny was very close. I never raced him with the 4.9, but im pretty sure he would not have won by much if at all.
By the time i had the 4.9 i was Supercharged and his car was down. We were even for all intensive purposes except for the gearing differences.
So id still take my $3500 ITR setup over the $6000-8000 K setup , although Mose runs a full second faster than me at the track :)
not mad at all, i own a J32 i have moved on from the 4 cylinders so i have no dog in this fight :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 112480
Im pointing out the inconsistencies in your statements. The facts of the matter are that you have at LEAST $6000+ in your car, whether you will admit it or not. I dont care what stories you will tell about how you sold this or traded sexual favors for that etc etc etc :)
FACTS ARE FACTS. Just because you bought a $1200 tranny for $200 doesnt mean ALL $1200 trannys are $200. If they were, THEYD BE $200.
I dont know how much LUIS put into his car as he was the original owner, and im sure Mose got a good deal on it when he acquired it. Doesnt matter. A k20R motor costs XXXX and a K20 "R" tranny costs XXXX, and a SSR header costs XXXX, Krpo costs XXXX etc.
So when talking to people and trying to explain the cost of something, you should give the AVERAGE numbers that a consumer should expect to pay. you dont do that, you act like its cheap just because you found some magical junk yard with cheap prices.
Just because i bought a 92 Civic Hatch for $300 once doesnt mean all 92 civic EGs are worth $300. Stop pretending they are :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Ok, so it seems like $4K is the real number.
That's what I was looking for. Now, figure the chassis and those coilovers, add real tires, and you have $6k in a car that runs high 12's - and we aren't figuring in any cost of labor.
correct. Youre almost better off buying a car already swapped, its far cheaper. you can pick up GSR swapped EGs for prob $4500-5000 range. then go from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
but yes, to run "12"s is not "cheap" by any means. Some people think that is incredibly slow, but id like to point out that a "high 12s" honda EG is prob fast enough to outrun almost ANYTHING stop light to stop light on the street. youll scare a lot of cars making 210-220whp on the street in a 2000lb chassis
I can't count how many foxbodies run 9's or better, but I can count how many Honda's do (I count on my fingers).Quote:
Originally Posted by Moseley
You can get a really clean, full weight foxbody for $6K that already has a H/C/I, and all you need to do is bolt on slicks, and go 11s with ease. Not a gutted, non-AC economy car.
I know one guy who just changed his rear gear, added slick and spray on his coupe, left everything stock, and was running 11.60s at SDR and Commerce just a few months ago. Granted, the tranny will fail sometime in the near future, but for $3K total in it (buying the car, and adding spray and slicks), he ran 12.9 on just motor.
BTW - my car has a lot more than $5K in it, and it's a slow car. I didn't worry about the cost, and I do understand that there are those that like the 4cyl Civics, and just want to build them. I'm not saying not to, just saying that it is not a cheap option. I do find it funny how they start talking about saving gas by getting better mpg, when they spent all they saved on building the car.
True, but you are running a gutted car. Those same people that gut them say that running a bike isn't fair, but it is an all motor 4cyl making a lot less power, but has less weight also. It's hypocritical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Me too. I can't run a stock transmission. It will blow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted347
thats the price of making a 4 cylinder commuter car "fast" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
there is something to be said for driving a econobox CRX with a 9500RPM rev limiter, with no AC and PS. I would never drive it everyday, but its a totally different experience.
Ill say this, i drove my buddies Cammed/exhaust/headers GTO the other day. 2006 6.0L. The TQ was awesome, the car, was pile of garbage. The shifter was horrible, the trans felt sloppy, the interior was disgusting. its just so marginal in every sense of the word.
my 2005 TL makes 50% the power, but is much more "fun" to drive than his pig.
So if your argument is that it costs less to go faster with a car that already has most likely double or triple the engine size, AND is RWD, then i think almost everyone will agree with you. But not everyone wants to drive 80s Mustangs either (i totally would :) )
If your only goal is to go FAST, why choose a honda EVER? But thats not most peoples goal. Most people that own hondas like their styling, price, appeal, gas mileage, and are conforming to the tuner crowd. So you work with whatcha got ;)
I wouldnt go that far man, now is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat a stock mustang, camaro, etc yes is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat an equal valued "built" v8 no...this is comparing apples to oranges, 90% of honda guys (not saying specifically you) whine and bitch about v8s calling them out, when realistically most of the k swap hondas have more money in them the majority of v8 street cars, they always play the well its a 4 cylinder or its a stock k swap and so on and so forth, but its still, like you said, got alot of money in it. Hell until i upgraded my turbo my car didnt even have 6-8k in it...not that it matters but mod for mod v8s outperform i4s its the simple truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
I blew mine up lol it was fun riding around in 4th only :yes: but now its all fixed...ive determined i need to stop adding weight to my car, im going the wrong way :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
i dont know where you find your foxbodys from but anything worth its salt is $7000+ and then some.
$8000 runs mid 12s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2584323597.html
$10000
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2556573459.html
$6500 and looks like hell, but supercharged
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2533114508.html
$5500 and prob runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2516992546.html
$4500 runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/2527514578.html
I mean theres good deals out there, and im sure with nitrous youll prob pull decent times. But i dont know if i want to own a seriously 20 year old FORD and try to make it fast for CHEAP :P
Those are all excessively overpriced cars....the only one worth the price is the supercharged one and it looks like hell....hell my car isnt that fast but if that one sells for 10k my car is worth about 30k...you can pick up a good HCI fox, its gonna be a hatch, for 4k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd