THE FORD vs HONDA CONTINUANCE....

[TougeGTR-33]

Honda has a fuckin robot. / thread.

[David88vert]

Yeah, right now i'm running a stock port 12a with a weber 45 carb. but my cars semi stripped so im at about 1900-2100lbs currently.

and I havent decided on the Port. I gotta find the cash first I lost my job and am quickly running out of money; but it'll either be a big street port, or a bridge port. and maybe a turbo after that, but i doubt ill need the turbo.

But, I also wanna do a FD/FB project. Drop a single turbo FD engine in a FB body and run a Holly Carb...... OMG.. I wanna do that project so bad.

First off, the 85 was the heaviest body, and without some major modifications and cutting, there is no way you weigh in at 1900-2100. 2300 is about the lightest. The 81 without the sunroof can get down to the 2000-2100 range without some major cutting.
Have you actually gone to a scale to check? It is heavier than you think.

Second, the major limiting factors for your setup, are: carb, ports, exhaust - not in that order. With your stock port engine, dual downdraft Webers tend to make the best power - dayton on here runs that setup currently, in fact, and he only makes about 135 hp.

Since we know these limiting factors, I can clearly call BS on you beating a 410hp foxbody. You are not even going to run in the 14s at the track on street tires.

As for a single turbo 13B-REW in a FB, that is what dayton is doing to his FB now. He got my complete FD motor (Haltech, T-76, etc). It is good for just over 600rwhp, but in a light car like an FB, you really have trouble utilizing more than 400 rwhp on the street.

You don't use a big port with a turbo, unless you are only drag racing it. Its not as streetable. If you are going NA, you want a bridge or P port to get flow. If you are going turbo, either stay with a mild street port, or a semi-P.
If you don't have a good job, your best route is to put in a TII swap. Easy to get 250rwhp out of it with a couple of bolt-ons.

[thundercatz1]

I tell you what remotex-7 all you gotta do is just line up with my rsx-s and see what you can do plain and simple becauseI know I cant beat a 410hp foxbody.

Lets just try and see where you are at? Im curious, because if david88verts statement is even close to true you are in trouble, not tryna be a dick or anything I just wanna see what its got.

[boosted347]

so houston are you boosting the car, before tax time?

[Catnip]

technically D1 is racing... its just a different type of race, judged on different standards...

LOLOL. It's based on what, the angle, speed, amount of smoke, and crowd noise?

That sounds like real racing to me. Not knocking on the guys that do it, because it is fun, but GOT DAMN get real.

ANNNND, FYI the 924, and the 944 had the same exact engine... the 944 engine was just turned a bit better. and I know I ran him, and everyone that was there knows it, and that kid still has mad respect for me. I mean you dont have to believe, I have a habit of taking cars to their limits.

He has mad respect for you? Are you fucking Paul Walker? No one gives two shits if some "kid" has "mad respect" for you. You didn't beat a 410whp Mustang. Did he have it dynoed? Did he show you the dyno sheets? That's like saying my Sentra makes 651whp but gets beats by stock full size trucks.... Bullshit, asshole.

You have a habit of taking cars to their limits? LMFAO. Please tell me you're kidding about the old worn out rx and you drive a bright green 420a Eclipse.

Yeah, right now i'm running a stock port 12a with a weber 45 carb. but my cars semi stripped so im at about 1900-2100lbs currently.

and I havent decided on the Port. I gotta find the cash first I lost my job and am quickly running out of money; but it'll either be a big street port, or a bridge port. and maybe a turbo after that, but i doubt ill need the turbo.

But, I also wanna do a FD/FB project. Drop a single turbo FD engine in a FB body and run a Holly Carb...... OMG.. I wanna do that project so bad.

Built motor, maybe turbo, FD/FB project, blah blah blah... no job. Good one. You think anyone cares of the shitty dreams you have? When you HAVE it, talk; until then, go the fuck out thinking you're big shit.

[thundercatz1]

so houston are you boosting the car, before tax time?

Since my car is paid for I'm thinking about purchasing a 2011 ford mustang gt and save myself the hassle of turboing, I like muscle car the honda thing was temporary...

[Catnip]

Since my car is paid for I'm thinking about purchasing a 2011 ford mustang gt and save myself the hassle of turboing, I like muscle car the honda thing was temporary...

Do it. 3.73s, drag radials, exhaust... DONE.

[thundercatz1]

Yea I saw a nice black one i want to get.

[TougeGTR-33]

LOLOL. It's based on what, the angle, speed, amount of smoke, and crowd noise?

That sounds like real racing to me. Not knocking on the guys that do it, because it is fun, but GOT DAMN get real.

Speed, angle, clipping points, while in tandem keeping side by side, engine control. There is alot more than you would think. Also Going sideways next to another car at 90-120 is more intense than any other racing ive seen. Except rally racing. I know its not traditional racing, but at-least there is something new for a car enthusiast to watch, and do.

[boosted347]

Since my car is paid for I'm thinking about purchasing a 2011 ford mustang gt and save myself the hassle of turboing, I like muscle car the honda thing was temporary...

i second this motion lol but they just released a turbo setup for them 560 whp on 6 psi with just exhaust lol those bitches are so bad ass...but i kno on a 125 shot on stickies with 3.73s (and a driver mod ) they get into the tens

[RemoteX-7]

First off, the 85 was the heaviest body, and without some major modifications and cutting, there is no way you weigh in at 1900-2100. 2300 is about the lightest. The 81 without the sunroof can get down to the 2000-2100 range without some major cutting.
Have you actually gone to a scale to check? It is heavier than you think.

Second, the major limiting factors for your setup, are: carb, ports, exhaust - not in that order. With your stock port engine, dual downdraft Webers tend to make the best power - dayton on here runs that setup currently, in fact, and he only makes about 135 hp.

Since we know these limiting factors, I can clearly call BS on you beating a 410hp foxbody. You are not even going to run in the 14s at the track on street tires.

As for a single turbo 13B-REW in a FB, that is what dayton is doing to his FB now. He got my complete FD motor (Haltech, T-76, etc). It is good for just over 600rwhp, but in a light car like an FB, you really have trouble utilizing more than 400 rwhp on the street.

You don't use a big port with a turbo, unless you are only drag racing it. Its not as streetable. If you are going NA, you want a bridge or P port to get flow. If you are going turbo, either stay with a mild street port, or a semi-P.
If you don't have a good job, your best route is to put in a TII swap. Easy to get 250rwhp out of it with a couple of bolt-ons.

No i havent Weighed it. but I have a GSL-SE body, with a 79 suspension swap and 12a engine swap, So i ASSUMED i dropped a good bit of weight in the process. forgive me.

I got a custom exhaust and headers, so that gave me a bit more power.

BUT, I dont remember saying I BEAT a 410hp mustang in my rx7... I dont remember saying i BEAT him at all. first off i ran him in my PORSCHE.... second I said i was beating him till i ran out of power in the top of 4th gear and he walked on me.... I never said how i was beating him. it was partly because he took me from a roll on a 2 to 1 lane road and i was able to keep him from passing me during my hard ass accel from 2nd through 4th. but once i hit the top of fourth, fifth had nothing for me, and he easily walked by me.

LOLOL. It's based on what, the angle, speed, amount of smoke, and crowd noise?

That sounds like real racing to me. Not knocking on the guys that do it, because it is fun, but GOT DAMN get real.



He has mad respect for you? Are you fucking Paul Walker? No one gives two shits if some "kid" has "mad respect" for you. You didn't beat a 410whp Mustang. Did he have it dynoed? Did he show you the dyno sheets? That's like saying my Sentra makes 651whp but gets beats by stock full size trucks.... Bullshit, asshole.

You have a habit of taking cars to their limits? LMFAO. Please tell me you're kidding about the old worn out rx and you drive a bright green 420a Eclipse.







Built motor, maybe turbo, FD/FB project, blah blah blah... no job. Good one. You think anyone cares of the shitty dreams you have? When you HAVE it, talk; until then, go the fuck out thinking you're big shit.

I dont remember saying I BEAT a 410hp mustang in my rx7... I dont remember saying i BEAT him at all. first off i ran him in my PORSCHE.... second I said i was beating him till i ran out of power in the top of 4th gear and he walked on me.... I never said how i was beating him. it was partly because he took me from a roll on a 2 to 1 lane road and i was able to keep him from passing me during my hard ass accel from 2nd through 4th. but once i hit the top of fourth, fifth had nothing for me, and he easily walked by me.

And yes, I quite enjoy the idea of respect... Its something you should learn. His friends and him used to talk hella shit to me, because they always had nice cars that i semi correctly assumed that mommy and daddy mostly bought for them. given the few exceptions. and then my dad buys me a semi classic Porsche, and I was on top, and started talking shit, cuz they all ran honda civics, and jeeps and I'd walk on all of them. he gets wind of this and starts bashing me, saying he wants to race. i take a look at his engine, and shit and say HELL THE FUCK NO... and he bashed me for like a month and a half, maybe longer. so call me paul walker if you want, but dudes a good friend of mine now because of that run.

lastly, I'm newly 20 years old, and I just walked away from a job where i was making roughly 26k+ a year.... I made those FD to Fb plans when I was under the impression i was going to stay at that job and it would take about a pay check or two to buy the engine and tranny. i recently decided that job wasnt for me. so the plans are getting pushed back... hence why i said I WANNA..... because I'm still goign to do it. I just have to wait till i find another job.

[Catnip]

My Porsche 924s was a stock NA 4 banger pushing 160hp. I took on a kid in a mustang fox body with 410hp, and ate him till i ran out of power in the top of 4th gear @ 138mph

NOW, that being said, if someone was to tell me that Porsche didnt put race engineering in there street cars id laugh at them. cuz theres no way a 160hp 4 banger should even keep up with 410hp v8.

I dont remember saying I BEAT a 410hp mustang in my rx7... I dont remember saying i BEAT him at all. first off i ran him in my PORSCHE.... second I said i was beating him till i ran out of power in the top of 4th gear and he walked on me.... I never said how i was beating him. it was partly because he took me from a roll on a 2 to 1 lane road and i was able to keep him from passing me during my hard ass accel from 2nd through 4th. but once i hit the top of fourth, fifth had nothing for me, and he easily walked by me.

And yes, I quite enjoy the idea of respect... Its something you should learn. His friends and him used to talk hella shit to me, because they always had nice cars that i semi correctly assumed that mommy and daddy mostly bought for them. given the few exceptions. and then my dad buys me a semi classic Porsche, and I was on top, and started talking shit, cuz they all ran honda civics, and jeeps and I'd walk on all of them. he gets wind of this and starts bashing me, saying he wants to race. i take a look at his engine, and shit and say HELL THE FUCK NO... and he bashed me for like a month and a half, maybe longer. so call me paul walker if you want, but dudes a good friend of mine now because of that run.

lastly, I'm newly 20 years old, and I just walked away from a job where i was making roughly 26k+ a year.... I made those FD to Fb plans when I was under the impression i was going to stay at that job and it would take about a pay check or two to buy the engine and tranny. i recently decided that job wasnt for me. so the plans are getting pushed back... hence why i said I WANNA..... because I'm still goign to do it. I just have to wait till i find another job.

I need to learn about respect? LOL. I think everyone here would agree I've gained A LOT of respect coming from my 16.5 second Thunderbird days to now with a 12 second reliable and fully loaded DD. Not dominating by any means, but still respectable. I like having respect, but going around mentioning I have respect from someone is not something I do (until this post, I guess) or praise.

[David88vert]

No i havent Weighed it. but I have a GSL-SE body, with a 79 suspension swap and 12a engine swap, So i ASSUMED i dropped a good bit of weight in the process. forgive me.

I got a custom exhaust and headers, so that gave me a bit more power.

If you have GSL-SE body, then you weigh at least 2400 lbs, and probably closer to 2500lbs. The 79 suspension does not save you more than 50 lbs, and is worse than the 85 suspension, as it puts you out of position by 20mm. You actually hurt the handling of the car with the 79 suspension, and if you went for weight savings, you save a tiny amount to going to smaller brake rotors in the front - and thus, hurt your braking a little.
Next, you are using a 12a stock port, and a custom exhaust, with a Weber 45. If you did not go to a rotary expert for that exhaust, and get the flow set right, you actually did not improve performance much - usually less than 15 rwhp gain, and with the age of your car, you were probably down to about 90rwhp prior to the exhaust and carb. Based on what you have revealed so far, I would expect you to make less than 120rwhp, and probably less than 110rwhp. The variance is due to not seeing a picture of your exhaust.
With your factory tranny, on street tires, you are likely to only run a 15.8-16.0 at best, and this depends on whether you are running the GSL-SE rear end with a 4.10, or a GSL rear with a 3.90. I don't see you even close to running a stock Foxbody in the 1/4 if the driver was decent.

If you put a FD motor in there with a single turbo, you can easily get up to about 350rwhp, and then the car would be quick.

[thundercatz1]

i second this motion lol but they just released a turbo setup for them 560 whp on 6 psi with just exhaust lol those bitches are so bad ass...but i kno on a 125 shot on stickies with 3.73s (and a driver mod ) they get into the tens

Oh yeah, when i come back out, im coming out hard!

[boosted347]

do it maybe you can play with me then maybeeee

[RemoteX-7]

If you have GSL-SE body, then you weigh at least 2400 lbs, and probably closer to 2500lbs. The 79 suspension does not save you more than 50 lbs, and is worse than the 85 suspension, as it puts you out of position by 20mm. You actually hurt the handling of the car with the 79 suspension, and if you went for weight savings, you save a tiny amount to going to smaller brake rotors in the front - and thus, hurt your braking a little.
Next, you are using a 12a stock port, and a custom exhaust, with a Weber 45. If you did not go to a rotary expert for that exhaust, and get the flow set right, you actually did not improve performance much - usually less than 15 rwhp gain, and with the age of your car, you were probably down to about 90rwhp prior to the exhaust and carb. Based on what you have revealed so far, I would expect you to make less than 120rwhp, and probably less than 110rwhp. The variance is due to not seeing a picture of your exhaust.
With your factory tranny, on street tires, you are likely to only run a 15.8-16.0 at best, and this depends on whether you are running the GSL-SE rear end with a 4.10, or a GSL rear with a 3.90. I don't see you even close to running a stock Foxbody in the 1/4 if the driver was decent.

do you not fucking read???? I put it in caps, and said it like 10 times... I RAN THIS KID IN MY 1988 PORSCHE 924s. NOT MY RX-7.... THIS WAS BEFORE I BOUGHT THE SEVEN.

[-EnVus-]

Point being the older rx7s are the ugliest and slowest of them all i wouldnt want one unless it was FC or FD.
Shit i wouldnt claim to be fast or that i have anything unless it was a T2 or FD lol
Any grocery getter can beat the older rx7s unless built clearly for a strip and that be a waste of money and poor choice in a car.

[RemoteX-7]

Point being the older rx7s are the ugliest and slowest of them all i wouldnt want one unless it was FC or FD.
Shit i wouldnt claim to be fast or that i have anything unless it was a T2 or FD lol
Any grocery getter can beat the older rx7s unless built clearly for a strip and that be a waste of money and poor choice in a car.

incorrect... the FC's are lame as shit. FD>FB>FC. the 1984/1985 GSLSE were FI NA 13b's and are much better than the NA FC's 13b's.... and the FB's are lighter than FC's, and 12a's can be quick very cheaply.

[-EnVus-]

incorrect... the FC's are lame as shit. FD>FB>FC. the 1984/1985 GSLSE were FI NA 13b's and are much better than the NA FC's 13b's.... and the FB's are lighter than FC's, and 12a's can be quick very cheaply.

Besides the FD the T2 Owns all

[David88vert]

do you not fucking read???? I put it in caps, and said it like 10 times... I RAN THIS KID IN MY 1988 PORSCHE 924s. NOT MY RX-7.... THIS WAS BEFORE I BOUGHT THE SEVEN.

I was being nice and chose the faster car for your comparison to show the futility of your argument. Since you want me to be blunt, let me break it down to you like this. You stated, "My Porsche 924s was a stock NA 4 banger pushing 160hp." Obviously, you did not have the turbo model.

In the 87 model with 150 bhp:
0-60 mph: 8.00 s
0-100 mph: 21.40 s
Quarter mile ET: 16.30 s @ 87.00 mph
Top speed: 134 mph
Power-to-weight: 133.89 bhp/ton


As you can see, it is NO quicker than the FB. The 88 only had 10 more hp - at best it is a 16 sec car. Magazines reported they only got a 16.4 out of it.

You stated that he only overtook you when you reached the top of 4th. With stock gearing i the 924S, you would not have topped 4th until after you had passed the 1/4 mile mark. This is a physical limitation that you cannot talk your way out of.
A 410 rwhp Foxbody at full weight, should be a high 11s car in the quarter. Assuming that he is a bad driver, had crappy street tires, on an unprepped street, we will limit him to a 2.8 60' and assume that you are a great driver and managed a 2.1 60'.
He would have been running the equivalent of a 13.8, and you would have had to made a 14.0 to hold him off.
With your earlier statements, you expect us to believe that you managed to magically drive your car past its physical limitations of engine and gearing, and found an extra 2.0 seconds over professional drivers? Exactly, how stupid are you?
I definitely call BS.

A STOCK Foxbody has 190 rwhp, and weighs 3200 lbs - and ran 15.4. Your 924S wouldn't have been able to beat it in the 1/4.

[BABY J]

I've seen plenty of people that don't know how to get a 400hp rwd + street tires + street race moving from the dig. In fact - MOST people that I have met even in drag-racing circles don't know how to drive their cars to anywhere near it's potential, ESPECIALLY on the street. But I still call BS - not that it matters bc I don't really give a shit - LOL.

I didn't happen to be there for this magical race that probably didn't happen, but I have lost money on a race just bc the wrong guy was driving the right car (LOL). I hate it when that happens.

On a side note - as a fox owner for the last 16 years I'll say that there are plenty of "domestic ricers" that claim HP that doesn't exist. Maybe he should say that that guy CLAIMED to have 400. I've walked notches w/ bolt on single-cams in an eg6. I've SMASHED "semi-built" notches w/ a 50 shot on a single cam in the same eg6.

Could his Porsche roll out on a stock notch? Tough call - nothing really leaves w/ a well setup notch even if they drive around it on the big end - something I tried to teach BTSTONE but he never brought that magic carpet s2k out - LOL. But w/ this kids power (or lack of - LOL) he would have HAD to leave on the notch bc he would have never pulled it on top w/ so little power. Hell maybe the guy didn't even know they were racing and then was like "oh - he's trying to race me, guess I'll try to run him down" - LOL.

[David88vert]

Baby J - I agree with you. My point is that he wasn't going to run against what he claimed that he could run against. I even gave him the benefit of the doubt on launch. Even with the other driver sleeping for a full second - and being a bad driver, the Foxbody would easily beat a 924S.
I haven't met too many guys that claim double the hp that they are putting out - they usually claim less.

[BABY J]

I think we know that that guy was nowhere NEAR 400 - LOL. But it was a funny story.

[boosted347]

I was being nice and chose the faster car for your comparison to show the futility of your argument. Since you want me to be blunt, let me break it down to you like this. You stated, "My Porsche 924s was a stock NA 4 banger pushing 160hp." Obviously, you did not have the turbo model.

In the 87 model with 150 bhp:
0-60 mph: 8.00 s
0-100 mph: 21.40 s
Quarter mile ET: 16.30 s @ 87.00 mph
Top speed: 134 mph
Power-to-weight: 133.89 bhp/ton


As you can see, it is NO quicker than the FB. The 88 only had 10 more hp - at best it is a 16 sec car. Magazines reported they only got a 16.4 out of it.

You stated that he only overtook you when you reached the top of 4th. With stock gearing i the 924S, you would not have topped 4th until after you had passed the 1/4 mile mark. This is a physical limitation that you cannot talk your way out of.
A 410 rwhp Foxbody at full weight, should be a high 11s car in the quarter. Assuming that he is a bad driver, had crappy street tires, on an unprepped street, we will limit him to a 2.8 60' and assume that you are a great driver and managed a 2.1 60'.
He would have been running the equivalent of a 13.8, and you would have had to made a 14.0 to hold him off.
With your earlier statements, you expect us to believe that you managed to magically drive your car past its physical limitations of engine and gearing, and found an extra 2.0 seconds over professional drivers? Exactly, how stupid are you?
I definitely call BS.

A STOCK Foxbody has 190 rwhp, and weighs 3200 lbs - and ran 15.4. Your 924S wouldn't have been able to beat it in the 1/4.

lulz

[BABY J]

Kool read :

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/e..._99/index.html

[RUFFIAN]

As far as the NSX goes - it's VINTAGE. When the NSX dropped it was 1991 I think... that makes it comparable w/ EF hatches - LOL. NSXs could be spotted at the next "old school Honda meet" haha... what did Ford have in 1991 to compete w/ it that's even worth honorable mention?? Oh I know... NOTHING. LOL. This is fun. I'll address your post David when I get back from beer. Kudos sir. It'll help MORE illustrate my point on the POINTLESSNESS of trying to compare an ENGINE company to an auto manufacturer.

I would say the Ford had the RS200. it was made between 1984-86 and the specs are very comparable to the NSX............A double wishbone suspension setup with twin dampers on all four wheels aided handling and helped give the car what was often regarded as being the best balanced platform of any of the RS200's contemporary competitors.It had a mid-ship mounted engine with power that came from a 1.8 litre, single turbocharged Ford/Cosworth "BDT" engine producing 250 horsepower (190 kW) in road-going trim, and between 350 and 450 horsepower (340 kW) in racing trim; upgrade kits were available for road-going versions to boost power output to over 300 horsepower (220 kW).