advice on what to do with annoying alternator noise

[retroshark]

hey guys, ive had my new system in my car since the summer, and since it was a side project to get my mind off of the 5spd swap i had been doing, i didnt really ever get into troubleshooting it.

anyway, some minor details on it:

all pioneer premier components, includint the amps, subs, and head unit.

the amps are in the trunk, and unfortunately, so is the battery.

now, the battery positive cable runs along the drivers side, all the way to the bay, and obviously, the rca cables and the left front component speaker cables run alomng side it. unless i move the power cable to the other side, theres not really much else i can do, and moving it to the other side will mean it still runs past the amp in order to get to the battery

now my options are pretty much limitless, i can rearrange most stuff pretty easlily, but i have no idea what to move, ive done some research into it and really dont know what to do, im hoping that someone can help me because ive had alternator noise before, but this is bad, and i mean its obvious why its happening.

i wonder if there is some way i can shield the wires, and not have to do anything else. it doesnt matter what it looks like, its all covered up or can be covered up, so enlighten me, what can i do to eliminate the horrible alternator noise ruining my sound :)

[b@d @pple]

hey guys, ive had my new system in my car since the summer, and since it was a side project to get my mind off of the 5spd swap i had been doing, i didnt really ever get into troubleshooting it.

anyway, some minor details on it:

all pioneer premier components, includint the amps, subs, and head unit.

the amps are in the trunk, and unfortunately, so is the battery.

now, the battery positive cable runs along the drivers side, all the way to the bay, and obviously, the rca cables and the left front component speaker cables run alomng side it. unless i move the power cable to the other side, theres not really much else i can do, and moving it to the other side will mean it still runs past the amp in order to get to the battery

now my options are pretty much limitless, i can rearrange most stuff pretty easlily, but i have no idea what to move, ive done some research into it and really dont know what to do, im hoping that someone can help me because ive had alternator noise before, but this is bad, and i mean its obvious why its happening.

i wonder if there is some way i can shield the wires, and not have to do anything else. it doesnt matter what it looks like, its all covered up or can be covered up, so enlighten me, what can i do to eliminate the horrible alternator noise ruining my sound :)

first thing i would do is move the rca's to the otherside....if that doesnt work than the radio could be out putting noise thru the rca's..therefore your radio sucks and you need to replace that pioneer piece of shit...next off if your radio is not what is causing the noise then your amplifier could also be a total piece of shit due to the manufactuer...and last but not least i know your rca's are not pioneer but seein as how you went cheap on all your noise having equipment..they are probably just cheap ass rca's...for the most part if you have a good set of rca's you can usually run next to power wire and have no issues...so basically rip all your shit out,pour gasoline all over it and start over..but if you dont wanna do that..hopefully this list of things to look for helps your delimma

[retroshark]

well thanks for the advice... although i dont think the pioneer stuff is junk, it sounds good and considering i speant about a 1/4 of msrp on everything, it was worth it to me. anyway, yes, the rca's arent wonderful, and i honestly couldnt tell you the brand, although one set, the rca cable for the subs was bought at circuit city, so its a little better than what i used for the components. anyway, since you obvioulsy have high standards, what rca cables would you suggest? ill try moving them to the other side, shouldnt take more than ten minutes, then see if that helps.

if there is speaker wire running along side power wires, will i have the same issues with interference, or is it only the case with the rca's?

[ruffriderGA]

You 100% sure you have a good ground? 90% of the time alternator whine is caused by a shitty ground.



some (usually older) pioneers have internal grounding issues. that causes alternator whine when you throw a system in it. if thats your case, and it has been with a few pioneers i've fuxed with, ground the rca shields directly to the chassis of the headunit.

to do that, just loop a wire around the rca shields and put it on one of the screws that goes into the chassis of the headunit. that;s the standard fix for most pioneer headunits.

like this
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/PioneerFix.jpg

those damn pioneers will sound great if you just run mids and highs and dont hook them to an amp, but when you hook an amp to them, noise city.

make sure you have good grounds, for the head unit and the amp.

as far as wire routing, i havnt been doing installs that long because i'm only 16 and still in highschool but i honestly believe it makes no difference. i still run them on seperate sides of the car, because it couldnt hurt, but it really doesnt matter in my opinion.

get some good shielded rca's if you havnt already.

ground the rca's to the headunit chassis last, if you try everything and still cant get rid of the whine do that and it should go away.

let me know what you figure out

[ruffriderGA]

by the way nothing wrong with pioneer.. :goodjob:

[retroshark]

wow, thats a really neat fix, ill get right on that, but it is a brand new model, well, it was a few months ago, and i installed one on a friends 4runner with the same amp, and no issues. anyway, ill definately do the grounds again, i have a feeling they may be an issue, although, they are grounded to the same spot as my old system was and that never had an issue... ill try all the suggestions tomorrow, its wet and cold and ive speant hours under teh hood already today. but thanks a lot, the rca ground is a neat trick, never though of that.

[ruffriderGA]

tracking down alt whine is a bitch, do you get a THUMP when you first turn the ignition on or any other noise besides whine

[retroshark]

nope, its a straight whine. its weird, i had it when my battery was in teh front of the car, and when i moved it to the back it got worse. im thinking its the combination of the actual positive battery cable, the power wire to the fuse block that runs to both amps, and the rcas all being on the same side.

[sina518]

well thanks for the advice... although i dont think the pioneer stuff is junk, it sounds good and considering i speant about a 1/4 of msrp on everything, it was worth it to me. anyway, yes, the rca's arent wonderful, and i honestly couldnt tell you the brand, although one set, the rca cable for the subs was bought at circuit city, so its a little better than what i used for the components. anyway, since you obvioulsy have high standards, what rca cables would you suggest? ill try moving them to the other side, shouldnt take more than ten minutes, then see if that helps.

if there is speaker wire running along side power wires, will i have the same issues with interference, or is it only the case with the rca's?

use stinger rca. pioneer stuff is junk thats why you got it for 1/4 of the msrp. Badapple has been in the car audio field for some time now. he has played with the best and he has also played with some shitty stuff so he knows what he is talking about when he says something is junk. not tryn to hate on your stuff but do some research before you buy stuff and best buy and circuit city are not good places to start

[retroshark]

my car is not a show/audio display car, its for me to enjoy, and i very much enjoy my sound system that i think sounds perfect. thanks for the comment but i did research and for what i paid, i got more than what i expected. i am very happy with my system, i dont blare music, i dont bump heavy rap songs with my windows open, i listen to punk, classical music, a lot of older hip hop and a lot of blues, classic rock, doowop and 50's and 60's r&b. it does all that i want it to do, it sounds great and is 1000x better than what the car came with. and i didnt buy my stuff at circuit city, i bought everything individually, i bought the top of the line stuff (below their competition stuff that was way overpriced) and the only thing i paid retail for was a stupid rca cable that is truly a piece of crap.

i trust that badapple has a lot of experience, but he does not however, have my ears, and my ears are extremely pleased with my simple, budget sound sytem that was well worth the money invested. if i wanted a high pwerformance super amazing sound system, id get a car that didnt clunk when i hit a bump, didnt have a loud turbo and blowoff valve and didnt have an open exhaust. and i know my audio, i have been recording and producing my own, and others music for a few years, and have taken many instruments and have worked with a lot of audio equipment. my system sounds great and i really dont need any more oppinions that involve scrapping any components other than wires, which are most liekly to blame here. i wouldnt tell you to take off what you have on your car, because its your car, so please stop telling me that this is crap and that is crap. thanks but no thanks, ill buy what i think sounds good and you do the same, i just came here for some help and instead got my choice of sound audio components criticized.

[b@d @pple]

look man i was just fuckin around..i dont like pioneer..my opinion..but im pretty sure its the equipment that causing noise..especially if you move rca's and you are sure you have a good ground..sure you can ground the rca's but look at the pic..how fuckin ghetto is that..with the right money spent you wont have probs. all im sayin is you get what you pay for..i would say stinger or monster rca's..i have worked with both for years..never had a prob..

[ruffriderGA]

look man i was just fuckin around..i dont like pioneer..my opinion..but im pretty sure its the equipment that causing noise..especially if you move rca's and you are sure you have a good ground..sure you can ground the rca's but look at the pic..how fuckin ghetto is that..with the right money spent you wont have probs. all im sayin is you get what you pay for..i would say stinger or monster rca's..i have worked with both for years..never had a prob..

might look ghetto but you never even see it and it's the standard fix for pioneer head units.

not like you have wire wrapped around the face of your head unit, it takes care of the problem and it's on the back side and after you slide the unit in no body ever knows.

pioneer is OK, atleast he isnt installing lanzar/pyle/dual/ect. or saying he bought his setup from the fleamarket or something. there's alot worse setups out there than pioneer.

anyway good luck with it man hope you get it sorted out.

[retroshark]

im about to go mess with the wiring a little, ill let you guys know how it goes. ill probably pick up some monster cables later this week. is there any kind of shielding available? i knwo when i built my guitar i used this almost like adhesive aluminum stuff which is comming practice in guitar making

[DJ XtRaK©]

trying grounding your radio to the amp so you dont create a group loop...btw the grounding the rca shields is gangsta....i wouldnt do it

[redgst97]

How good is the ground on the battery?
Ground on the amp itself?

CHECK the grounds first.....
If you "move/wiggle" the RCA cables, does the noice change/go away?

[retroshark]

k so i got new rcas, monster ones, and i moved all 3 to the passenger side, and guess what

its now 1000 times worse, im pissed off even more now, wtf is going on. ill be checking all grounds later tonight, this shit is totally rediculous. if all else fails, im ripping it out and fucking moulding a boombox into the damn dash, i cant stand this retarded crap, how the fuck can it get worse!??!?!

[b@d @pple]

hahaha dude i have no clue..

[retroshark]

no ideas at all? as far as groundning the head unit, should i just use the ground thats on the harness and run that to the amp ground? or should i do that differently

[redgst97]

yes, run from the radio harness to the same spot as the amp ground.

Make SURE to clean all paint, primer, and dirt from the area where you are grounding to.

When possible, I stay away from using the seat-belt bolt, or the bolt for the seat itself. Try its "own" spot. Maybe even stay away from a ring with a self-tapping screw ran through it. If you "have" to do that, make sure to use 3-4 screws to ensure the ring is VERY secure and will not wiggle loose. If possible, I might suggest a nut and bolt. Drill a hole in the metal, and run the bolt through the car. Use a few washers and locknut. Cover with spray undercoating to be 100% sure. I know its overkill, but the $0.65 bolt, $0.07 washers, and $0.15 nut probably come to less than the new RCAs....

Of course its not guarenteed to fix the problem....unfortunately.

Have you tried the basic "band-aid"....a ground-loop isolator? Probably $15-20 at most car stereo shops? (1 per set of RCAs)

Is threre noise in every speaker? Meaning, if you only have the front RCAs hooked up, is there noise? If only the rear RCAs? What if you switch (at the head unit) the RCAs? Switch RCAs at the amp? (these questions are trying to rule out the HU or amp)


John

[retroshark]

ill get on trying all that. i already have the amps grounded to the trunk, they are on their own screws, but ill bolt them for sure tomorrow. also, do those things work? i asked someone else and they told me the loop isolaters are junk, but what the heck, worht a try if nothing else sorts it out. i just am puzzled how it can get so much worse from making the jump from running right next to the battery cable to totally on the other side of the car, jsut doesnt add up.

[98strat]

If your battery is in the trunk and your amp in the trunk just ground right to the battery.

[redgst97]

Retro: Yes, ground-loop isolators are definately a "band-aid" to a problem, but it seems as though you cannot fix the problem with convention methods, so try the band-aid. Just a thought.


98strat: Yes, if the battery is in the back, you "can" ground directly to the battery. However, the battery itself still has to be grounded....

[retroshark]

ok well since i obviously have a ton of different ways to ground everything, and i already have a wire thats run to the battery as a ground for some other things, ill run the amp grounds to the battery and then the head unit to the battery ground as well, and well see whats up. if all else fails, ill be getting some loop isolators :(

[hybrid90accord]

Have you check teh radio itself, pioneer radio are notorious for have bad internal ground traces which will cause bad gound noise threw the RCA. So no natter if you ground the RCA's, use a ground loop isolator, reground teh amps etc you will still get noise, its a manufactor deft and they fix it for free i have the same problem with my premier 860mp

[con]

lolz......should of known to search here first.....after having my Pioneer DEH-P5000UB installed and pushing hard for 6 months, the amp and subs grounded out after being bumped by one of my labs last week. afterwards, no matter where or how I grounded the amps/sub/headunit; I was receiving horrible ground loop whining & popping. The entire time I was thinking I had fubarred my amps.

After re-wiring the system twice, buying new wire/connectors/etc., I was about to give up. I had done many searches without results, but the first time I included Pioneer and ground loop brought up that RCA to H/U grounding method. Wish I would of saw this before hand, could of saved me $40. I was shocked when it worked.

To think I let IA talk me into purchasing a Pioneer. I should of stuck with JVC (which I know isn't top of the line either, but I've never had a problem with them).

[patrick4588]

yeah my pioneer has to have the rca's grounded to the head unit as well...

[big99miketma]

That means that something has gone wrong, and you have blown fuses inside the head unit.
Here is a post from a Pioneer employee on one of their forums to help explain.




In an effort to limit damage done by ground loops and voltage racing to the deck from the amps via the RCAs, years ago Pioneer added small fuses to the circuit board. These fuses when blown, can cause the stereo to produce engine noise, but don't blame it on Pioneer just yet.

For one there is a reason that Voltage is traveling from the Amp to the deck via the RCAs, and you must figure this out or you will continue to have problems with any deck.

First you need to test to see if the fuses are blown. To do this simply use a DMM and check for continuity by touching the chassis of the deck and the outside shield of the RCA. If you have continuity, then the Fuses are fine and your engine noise lies elsewhere in the system. If you do not get continuity, then one or more of the fuses are most likely blown and you need to send the deck to a authorized service center for replacement.

If the fuse is blown then you need to find and fix the reason for the blown fuse before you reinstall the deck.
Common issues include: A loose or corroded ground from the amp. Make sure the ground is on bare metal and tightly fastened. A Loose or pinched RCAs. Make sure that the RCAs fit tight to the amp. I'm sure we all know that "POP" that comes from plugging in an RCA to a live system. This "POP" is enough to blow the fuse, so make sure that during the install the battery stays disconnected and if for any reason you need to unplug or move an RCA, power down the system, disconnect the battery and then make the adjustment. I know this extra 5 minutes can be a pain in the butt, but 5 minutes is better then up to two weeks at a repair facility.

Lastly, do not try to replace the fuses yourself. They are very small about the size of the tip of a ball point pen and require soldering. Only a local Pioneer Authorized service center or Pioneer Service should do the repair. In most cases that I have dealt with the service center by me can turn the deck around in 1-2 days.