And the problem was found...

[The Ren]

Finally.. after almost 6 months of trying to find out what the hell my problem has been with the supra.. we narrowed it down.. i have one more test to do.. and if that doesnt work its for sure #2 turbo is bad.. Looks like I will be going single sooner then I wanted to...

[Vteckidd]

good, single is better :)

[The Ren]

Well you and I did talking at nopi and I really was going to sell it.. but when I realized how much I was going to beable to get.. I just couldnt take that much of a loss.. we went through lots and lots of tests and the last one it to go true twin.... if it really is the 2nd turbo.. that wont change anything.. problem is there is no smoke..no whining.. and no grinding.. its very odd there is no evidence of a blown turbo..

[Vteckidd]

what TESTS are you doing?

[The Ren]

So far All vaccum lines have been checked, rechecked, and checked again.. We have confirmed correct operation of the entire turbo control system. Replaced all bad VSVs, corrected the boost controler mounting, removed the boost controller.

Next step, TT conversion, even though the we know the diaphrams are good, and the VSVs are good, just to rule out the last possible thing before saying a turbo is bad. Turbos have never been off and the car has 116k.

[Vteckidd]

yeah you still made good power so i wouldnt think a turbo was "bad"

but, i wouldnt spend the money on twin turbo or getting another set of turbos considering:

XS Power manifold $200
Wastegate $200
BOV $100
60-1 Turbo $500

550whp, priceless.

its too cheap to do single, an you can make 500-550whp with a stock ecu and an AFC. i know cause we have done it, an thats what im doing on my car :)

[The Ren]

yeah you still made good power so i wouldnt think a turbo was "bad"

but, i wouldnt spend the money on twin turbo or getting another set of turbos considering:

XS Power manifold $200
Wastegate $200
BOV $100
60-1 Turbo $500

550whp, priceless.

its too cheap to do single, an you can make 500-550whp with a stock ecu and an AFC. i know cause we have done it, an thats what im doing on my car :)


exactly.. I was told to check this ceramic valve on the intake manifold which is right above the dp.. Shawn Kerr said he and his buddy both had a problem with that same valve.. but whatever the case.. its very cheap to go single now a days... so why not for over 100+hp gain..

[MongolPup]

No death whine? Well at least you don't have to listen to that shit all the time.



(If thats what it is.)

[The Ren]

Nope.. no obvious signs of a blown turbo..

[miro_gt]

yeah you still made good power so i wouldnt think a turbo was "bad"

but, i wouldnt spend the money on twin turbo or getting another set of turbos considering:

XS Power manifold $200
Wastegate $200
BOV $100
60-1 Turbo $500

550whp, priceless.

its too cheap to do single, an you can make 500-550whp with a stock ecu and an AFC. i know cause we have done it, an thats what im doing on my car :)

AFC ... hell no. Get something that controls timing .. or you're screwed

well, you can always do it the ghetto way and retard the dizzy (hope supras have those)

[Vteckidd]

not true, there are guys on Supraforums making 800whp with AFCs.

AFC is good for 500whp, been there, done that

[2.0civic]

AFC ... hell no. Get something that controls timing .. or you're screwed

well, you can always do it the ghetto way and retard the dizzy (hope supras have those)


WTF. How come that whenever someone posts a problem or ANYTHING in general on here, theres always people that say shit and dont know what the hell they are talking about. If you are trying to make a point, post facts, not some BS opinion. Not trying to be a ass but ive seen this ALOT and people say "blah blah 600 whp on 5 lbs of boost..." with no proof and its the same when people say shit like this...sorry bout the rant

[The Ren]

tell me about it... every professional i know has told me as long as i keep under 18lbs of boost a safc and stock fuel will be fine... I will continue to take their opinion better then this jackass..

[2.0civic]

LIRL, yeah i was in a pissy mood earlier and i hate when i see that shit. My apoligies but still....


Show me some proof where the AFC doesnt work

[The Ren]

I have asked 4 different people.. even stu hagen who holds he record for most hp on stock twins.. he is a genious when it comes to supras.. and the Safc 2 is just fine...

[mrt0mjones]

i have a single for sale :)

[The Ren]

pm me with details..

[§treet_§peed]

damn sorry to hear about the problems with the Supra...one day after i get my Honda done i will hopefully be able to afford the 2JZ in a 240...:D

[miro_gt]

WTF. How come that whenever someone posts a problem or ANYTHING in general on here, theres always people that say shit and dont know what the hell they are talking about. If you are trying to make a point, post facts, not some BS opinion. Not trying to be a ass but ive seen this ALOT and people say "blah blah 600 whp on 5 lbs of boost..." with no proof and its the same when people say shit like this...sorry bout the rant

sorry for the late replay .. but I was too busy this week

anyways, the reason that I pointed that was becasue I've seen waay too many damaged engines because of running the AFC. I'm not sure how much you guys are in the tunning, but timing is THE most important thing to deal with. Fuel delivery just determines if you are gonna be able to run at all, or not. Keep under 12:1 A/F and you start going, but from there it's all about timing.

So, I guess you have an idea how the AFC works ... Anyways, it ensures fuel delivery based on the stock fuel/timing maps of the car/ECU used. When you install bigger injectors (almost a must in turbo app.), you start compensating and adding fuel with the AFC by changing the MAP signal, and therefore telling the ECU that the engine load is different, and the ECU sets different fuel delivery and timing. Doing so, you ensure the fuel delivery, but your timing map gets screwed big time ... and sooner or later you engine does the same. So how do you compensate for the timing ? .. well, one way would be to retard the dizzy (if there's one). Another way would be to install MSD ignition and work from there ... But running only the AFC - as I said above - hell no.

However, AFC works different on different cars .. some may run better, some may not. But in general, you CAN NOT achieve that perfect tune that we all aim at for your car running the AFC.

So as I've said before, if it's gonna be a hack, then EManage it is, because you can compensate the timing with that unit. However, chipped ECU or stand alone is best.

----

sorry for taking the topic kinda off a little ... I hope you fix your car :)

[Vteckidd]

changing the MAP signal




USDM supras have MAF sensors BTW. and what your saying is true to some extent, but this aint a honda or mitsubishi.

you can use an AFC up to around 500-550whp safely without haveing to chip the ecu to pull timing out, as long as its TUNED RIGHT

[2.0civic]

USDM supras have MAF sensors BTW. and what your saying is true to some extent, but this aint a honda or mitsubishi.

you can use an AFC up to around 500-550whp safely without haveing to chip the ecu to pull timing out, as long as its TUNED RIGHT


bolded part is all i really needed to read....

[Jaimecbr900]

I've ran a SAFCII for over 2 years both S/C'd and Turbo'd in the same car, stock engine, with now over 110K on it. I'm also not running very much boost either, but I've not had any issues yet.

I am anal about watching the gauges in my since it's a daily driver. I have a wideband and it doesn't go lean EVER, which probably explains why I haven't blown the motor yet. The knock sensor is also not going nuts either, even with only 93 octane being run thru the car. The ECU hasn't been touched, except to hook up the SAFC.

So I don't see how running smaller amounts of boost would be that much different in a 2jz. :thinking:

[scttydb411]

miro, what you're saying is true when dealing w/ non factory turbo'd cars and/or cars w/ much larger inj and using large correction factors through the afc.

factory turbo'd and moderate correction numbers don't have the same catastrophic results as a honda running 450cc inj w/ an afc. that can also be done successfully if base timing is retarded and a msd btm is used, but then the same or more $$ has been spent and still not as tuneable as a socketed/chipped/tuneable ecu.

but none of this really applies since we're talking about a supra anyway.

[Jaimecbr900]

miro, what you're saying is true when dealing w/ non factory turbo'd cars and/or cars w/ much larger inj and using large correction factors through the afc.

My car is certainly not factory FI. As a matter of fact they don't make my car factory FI even in Japan.

The catch with an SAFC is mainly two fold: The correction factors are not as finite and numerous as say a MAP ECU or obviously a standalone ECU. Also, as has been said, you can't control any type of timing at all. Although, most modern cars you can't control timing except thru the ECU anyway and even then not every ECU can be chipped or reprogrammed just like that.

If I could do it reliably, I'd love to run a simple Hondata, burn a chip, and call it a day. I can't. I can run an AEM possibly, but then that would possibly ruin my daily driveability and that's just not an option for me on this car since it is a DD.

You Honda guys have it pretty easy. Get a Hondata, burn a chip, and you can do quite a bit with FI. It's not mega bucks to do that, and lots of "tuners" are good at it. ;) That's sweet that you guys have that option. Some of us are stuck at the extremes: Low boost w/SAFC or REAL boost w/standalone. It sucks but that's life. :D

BTW, I have a good buddy of mine that has a very similar setup to mine on the same type of car, except he has a built motor and running a lot more boost than I. He only uses an SAFC and has done well over 500whp. So it CAN be done, but I must admit he's pushing the limits of that SAFC pretty good.

[The Ren]

If I went with any other kind of system it would be a MAP ECU.. Im on a Auto and the most im looking for it around 550-600hp AT MOST.. id be happy with 460-500.. so.. the SAFC should be fine for me since I dont plan on boosting it more than 17-18lbs.. I dont need a full stand alone..

[scttydb411]

My car is certainly not factory FI. As a matter of fact they don't make my car factory FI even in Japan.

The catch with an SAFC is mainly two fold: The correction factors are not as finite and numerous as say a MAP ECU or obviously a standalone ECU. Also, as has been said, you can't control any type of timing at all. Although, most modern cars you can't control timing except thru the ECU anyway and even then not every ECU can be chipped or reprogrammed just like that.

If I could do it reliably, I'd love to run a simple Hondata, burn a chip, and call it a day. I can't. I can run an AEM possibly, but then that would possibly ruin my daily driveability and that's just not an option for me on this car since it is a DD.

You Honda guys have it pretty easy. Get a Hondata, burn a chip, and you can do quite a bit with FI. It's not mega bucks to do that, and lots of "tuners" are good at it. ;) That's sweet that you guys have that option. Some of us are stuck at the extremes: Low boost w/SAFC or REAL boost w/standalone. It sucks but that's life. :D

BTW, I have a good buddy of mine that has a very similar setup to mine on the same type of car, except he has a built motor and running a lot more boost than I. He only uses an SAFC and has done well over 500whp. So it CAN be done, but I must admit he's pushing the limits of that SAFC pretty good.

i'm not saying afc can't be used...i successfully used the hack at 12psi+ on my honda for a year w/ no issues. the trick to getting around the timing issue crap is to retard base timing some and then for extra added safety, use an msd btm to retard timing under boost. the bad thing is after you've spent the $$ for afc, btm, and installation you've spent more $$ than you could've on a socketed chipped ecu (this is for us lucky honda owners). unfortuneately the same doesn't hold true for the other folks.

[green91]

Well Ren your car is in good hands, if anyone can take care of your problem its who youve had look at it recently. And if it does end up being the 2nd turbo, its all the more incentive to upgrade :)

[The Ren]

^ I guess you have talked to them recently.. :D

[green91]

One of them is a co-worker and i occasionally give them a hand when they need extra help lol.

[The Ren]

I see.. yeah.. as much as it baffeled me.. it has been one of the most problematic supras either of them have delt with before..

[MongolPup]

I see.. yeah.. as much as it baffeled me.. it has been one of the most problematic supras either of them have delt with before..

Does it still go pssh?

lol

[The Ren]

lol.. yeah but not as loud