New motor break in secrets

[ShooterMcGavin]

this belongs in the tech section but i wanted more ppl to see this and comment on it, especially from the super gearheads and shop guys.

has anyone heard/read about this? what do u think?

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[Mr_Mischif]

If two people were thinking about buying a car soon, we could have one person run their car like this guy says and the other by the owner's manual, and we could start up a fund to help the person who runs their car like he says if anything should go wrong. Then just have Batlground check each of them out after like 200 miles and see if the guy was right.

[Vteckidd]

thats no secret, REPOST.

you break a motor in the WAY it is designed to run. IE if your building a 600whp car, break it in HARD.

Creating vacuum is the only way to properly seat the rings. IE you want to do quick bursts of speed an coast down letting the transmission slow the car down, this creates a massive vacuum in the cylinder that pushed the rings out against the cylinder wall. if the motor is built right, there should be no problems running it up to redline with less than 10 miles on it (with proper air/fuels of course)

this is how we break all our customer motors in. We crank them up an let them idle to operating temp. Let it sit an run for 15min at idle. Shut them off, change the oil and replace oil filter. Drive it to the dyno, strap it down, and tune for idle, then do WOT pulls to 6000rpms. THen after the a/f ratios are acceptable, rev it out to redline.

hell, my 2.0l LSVTEC we cranked up on the engine dyno, let it idle, checked for leaks, then proceeded to do 8900rpm pulls. I never saw any problems out of that bottom end, and it lived long enough to see 300+ dyno pulls on a chassis dyno.

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^not surprised it's a repost and like i said, this is new to me so i just wanted to get some input on what ppl thought (especially folks like u).

[Vteckidd]

thats been around for 2-3 years. Heres another good site:

http://www.importbuilders.com/breakinarticle.htm

Here is a question answer format to help the world understand how motors work and how to use them most reliably. This part on breaking in a motor is opinion and the parts on why certain things happen is based on experience and sound scientific principles.

What about the guy who told me I need to put 1000 miles on my motor before I tune it and that I need to "break it in"? I will be blunt. That person is not educated on motors. With 1 exception...if that person told you to DYNO your motor at narrow throttle, that your going to be driving it for a few hundred miles, that's fine... However...I see a lot of people that customers "think" are smart and they are recommending 1000 mile break ins on built motors! That is the stupidest thing you could possibly do! When you hear terms like this, BEWARE and RUN THE OTHER WAY, or CLOSE YOUR EYES: "Just put in a base map, and break it in for xxxx miles, then go tune it, give the rings time to seat.." RUN!! CLOSE YOUR EYES! That is insane, stupid and ignorant all at the same time. Base Map? What the heck is that? When Honda tells you to put xxxx miles on your motor, or whatever, its completely tuned already with great air fuel ratio's. Do don't think for one second your base map is worth a damn, because it is a shot in the dark. It sucks UNLESS you went to a dyno and fully tuned your car at the RPM's and throttle position your driving it at with a wideband hooked up to the car. That chip your using is somebody's educated guess at what will run the car. Its not intended to drive on for any extended periods of time on! (I HOPE THEY TOLD YOU THIS, if they didn't... RUN!!) If you have no other option, a basemap can be used for getting your car a FEW miles straight to the dyno, but I am very against that even and a tow truck would be better.. This is a theme you all need to understand: "Don't start your motor unless you can adjust the air/fuel ratio to a reasonable number right away". Anything else is unwise, and foolish. Wideband cost like $350 shipped, just buy one for you and all your buddies to share. Best money you ever spent.

So here is a lesson on what to do to make your motor run as good as you can with as little problems as possible.

#1 I got a brand new block/engine and I want to break it in properly. What should I do first? A most common question. The answer is surprisingly simplistic. First you have to inspect the hone finish of the block your breaking in. What grit was it honed to? 500? 400? If the hatchings on it are pronounced and clear, you most likely have a bad machined block that will require some break-in to smooth it out. If I got a block that had a very smooth hone finish, such as a plateau finished block (IB), this is what you do. When you get the motor in the car, and are ready to start it up make sure you have an oil pressure gauge installed. Install a wide band O2 sensor to read 02 ratio BEFORE YOU START IT. Then unplug the distributor and crank it over until you get oil pressure, should take a short time, under a minute sometimes. Then plug the distributor back in, and start it up with whatever program you have. Notice the air fuel ratio. The car is warming up, so its going to read a little rich at first. When the car fully warms up you want the air/fuel ratio to be as close to 14.7:1 as possible. Immediately adjust your tuning to make it 14.7 at idle right away. Use a injector multiplier change if you have management, if you don't, use a fuel pressure regulator for starts... Then when you get the car at 14.7 at idle, and make it idle at around 800-900 RPM, make sure the timing is at about 13-16 degrees. Now, with the air/fuel ratio meter working, take the car for a short drive on the dyno, or the street, driving as you would normally. DO NOT put the throttle past say 50%. Make sure the air/fuel ratio is around 14.7:1, but not over 15:1 all throughout the gears up to say, 4500 RPM. Now your car is drive able. You can drive it within those parameters ONLY. Which in English means: less than 50% throttle, and under 4500 RPMS ONLY. Until you tune for whatever area you want to drive in. You could literally drive the car 100k miles as long as you don't go outside those parameters and it should be fine. Air fuel ratio and timing is good...its good.

#2 Now I can drive it, when do I tune it? Well, there are 1000 opinions out on this one, but we do it this way, and its absolutely proven. We drive the car a few miles on the street maybe 50-100 miles? at 14.7:1 to make sure there are no problems with the motor, no coolant leaks, etc... Your going to want to drive it to no more than 50% throttle, up and down the RPM's at all kinds of variable throttle positions. 0-50%....then it goes straight on the dyno, where we start the real tuning. Basically, I drive it to see if there are any problems, not to break in the thing so to speak.

#3 How do you tune a motor now that I am on the dyno? I will right an expended section on this, but follow these parameters. Start fine tuning your normal throttle, like freeway driving, 20%, 30%, 40%..60% throttle, 70% throttle, etc...then go to like 2k RPM and do a pull to say 5K RPM full throttle. For all motor, adjust the air/fuel at FULL throttle all throughout the band to anywhere from 13:1 to say 13.5:1. That's pretty safe. If you start to floor it at 2k, and it reads 18:1 Air/Fuel ratio, IMMEDIATELY LET OFF! You do a full pass like that its disaster! Boy you REALLY have to trust your tuner. SERIOUS! Ok. So then after up to 5k is tuned, you go to 6k, then 7, then 8, then max. Of course, when your adjusting for 5k, your adjusting everything up to redline, even though you have not tried that yet...chances are, its going to need it too. Your not going to need -20% at 5k, then +10% at 8k in my experience...based off a stock map. It will generally go all up, or all down. Generally. So now your done.

I got a brand new block, fully built and its burning a lot of oil, WHY?
http://www.importbuilders.com/images/overheated.jpg

A picture explains why, the piston is all scarred up, which means your sleeve is all scarred up too!! the cylinder walls are no longer even/smooth, and oil can get past the oil ring and your burning it. In the above case, with 1-2 pistons like this, about 1 quart a week. This is a real bad case.

What caused my piston to do this? The answer is simple. IT OVER-EXPANDED due to excessive amounts of HEAT!!!. See #1, #2 and #3! When a motor runs at too lean of an air/fuel ratio, say 15:1 at almost full throttle, or full throttle, for even a few seconds...your piston is building up heat REAL fast. When it builds up heat, it expands...that's what metal does when its heated. Well, you only have so much room until the skirt comes into full contact with the sleeve and does the ABOVE. Tuning issue. Clear as day. And it will do this driving down the street, or driving on the freeway too...you drive on the freeway at too lean of a ratio and the heat will build slower, but after a certain time, your piston will go into the cylinder wall and your like the above.

GET THIS! I have dyno'd so many cars...every time a person comes to dyno I will ask him a few questions about his motor like: What kind of pistons are in this motor, bore size, cams, head milled, and if i can't tell how big the injectors are, I ask him that too.. BUT GET THIS. For some reason A LOT of people think when you get a motor, say a 2 liter B20 that's 12:1 compression, you can just replace the block and "break" it in so to speak. Well, your B16A motor has puny 240 CC injectors say, with a stock fuel pressure regulator. Then the guy comes to dyno and I see all that and I say: "you have what block with what compression???" Then I ask him "how much oil are you burning a week?" Answer usually: "it burns a lot of oil, and I don't know why!" I KNOW WHY! You got the wrong injectors and you drive it without knowing its air/fuel ratio! BIG MISTAKE!! Lots of guys with CTR pistons in GSR's with stock everything too, they burn oil with the stock pistons and wonder why all day...

I have seen this a lot in this industry is the engine builder at fault at all? In the above case, no, not at all, because the piston was installed at a set distance from the cylinder wall based on the type of piston. Say it says on the instructions .003 like some Wiseco do. Well, actually this is VERY conservative because you can actually get away with installing them at .002 with good tuning. So Wiseco, or Je or whoever, recommend a safe distance to allow you room for tuning error. Knowing this, the engine builder has 0 to do with the above picture. Did the engine builder start up your car with no wideband then drive it for 1, 100, 500 or 1000 miles before he took it to tune? No, YOU did that, or whoever you paid to do it... Whoever does this just suicides that motor because you don't know what Air/Fuel ratio the motor was at when your driving, and that's just sheer madness! You spend 10k on a motor then install it with some stupid base program and some different injectors and think its ok? That's insane, and it is folly. Be smart. Revert to #1, #2 and #3. And don't go and blame your engine builder, that's ridiculous. They had nothing to do with it. And the engine builder has no control over the injectors you have either!! You get a 13:1 compression 85 MM block on your GSR, no matter what, your stock injectors are not going to work...they will hit 100% duty cycle EARLY in the RPM band!! Guess what! Your burning oil. A sign of too lean....

After I took apart my block, the machine shop said my cylinders had gone oval slightly. Well, that's pure rocket science! If you look at the picture above, its no wonder your cylinders went oval!! You got 2 skirts pressing up against opposite sides of the sleeve with extreme force! Also, if you don't inspect what you buy BEFORE you install it to check for ovaling, proper piston to wall clearance, then you can't say anything to the effect later down the road.

Above picture happens, now you say: "Those pistons suck, and I will never buy from so and so again" That is totally ill-responsible, and its a good thing most of the people out there know better. Did the guy you bought your pistons from drive your car untuned and melt your pistons? Did JE pistons sell you pistons that magically over expand? No, the responsibility is on the driver/owner/tuner of that car. Blaming anyone else is a pure scapegoat tactic with no merit at all. Also, you could hear people complaining somebody's bore and hone job was off by X amount. Ask yourself: "is the amount its off acceptable?" And if no amount is acceptable, can you please put a memo out to tell the world where the bore and hone job is perfect within 1/10,000 of an inch so everyone can go there? And will they guarantee in writing for they buy your motor it will be perfect every time? No? WHY! lol Did you check the piston to wall clearance when you received your new block that's been blueprinted and triple checked? you didn't? And then 2,000 miles later after you melt all the pistons you want your money back? Or you slander that company all over the internet? For real? I think the public is smarter than that now. Its obvious when somebody is trying to find a scapegoat for mistakes they don't want to admit to.

You got advice from your engine builder, but don't take it and listen to your buddy who thinks he knows better, or your local shop. This is common. Not from me only, but hundreds of shops I talk to. They will have a lot of experience in 1 area, and will tell the customer some great advice, and then the customer will neglect the good advice and take the advice of some guy who doesn't even build motors, dyno cars or work on his own car himself! This is amazing. People will take the advice of some 19 year old punk on the internet who never built a motor before they listen to some guy who has been building motors for NASCAR 15 years! I mean, I have dyno'd probably about 3000 cars and seen and worked on several hundreds of motors personally, with my own hands. I have broken in 10's of motors myself, and tuned them myself. I have made mistakes and I have done it perfect. If you don't think I know what I am talking about regarding pistons, rods, blocks, heads, tuning, or breaking in a part or motor, then please, find somebody else who has similar experience. Whatever you do, do not listen to some guy on the internet who works a full time job, lives with his mom and doesn't do this for a living. Most people I see nowadays are on internet web boards asking questions and getting advice from some 19 year old kid who has a stock civic DX he bought for 2 grand! Then you got the other crowd always offering advice, but never have built a motor. They get all their info and data from what they read on the internet. Some of these people are OK, because they find sources that are reliable, and trustworthy to spread around. Other people are idiots, and spread around misinformation just to gain status and look cool. These people are obvious after a while.

Find a shop you trust and do what they say! Find somebody who has a grip of high HP motors that are reliable and run a long time, PROVEN and listen to everything they say and do what they say! I love it when I get a person who comes to me, then I tell him, "hey, we are doing this, we are tuning it this way, we are using this part, etc" and then he says to me: "I don't want to do it that way, I think you should use this part, and do it this way, tune it this way, etc etc etc" I feel like saying "wow, how much can I PAY YOU to do all that FOR ME!" meaning, why are you paying me, when you got all the answers yourself! ROFL! You PAY somebody money because you NEED them. If you don't NEED something and can do it yourself, why pay for it! Find a shop you like and listen! DO IT! When you buy a set of pistons from me, and I tell you "make sure you have a wideband on that thing, the second you start the car so you can iinitially drive it with the proper air/fuel ratio!". When I tell you that, YOU DO IT! Because thats PROVEN to make your entire experience in this industry better! And even if you think I am wrong, it won't hurt a damn thing!

The Blame game! You can blame everyone from here to kingdom come for why your motor is burning oil, why your pistons melted, why this why that, but its not going to fix the problem! Best thing you can do is BE NICE TO PEOPLE and LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE! BE SMART! If you don't want to admit you messed up, don't go and blame the last guy to touch your car! Blame yourself for being under-informed! Learn from it! I am fair, and I am honest. When you buy from me, you get straight answers. I know the above brief offends some people. But....

Rule in Business! You can't make everyone happy! So when you see somebody knocking another company, any company for something you know is their fault, ignore them! hundreds of import companies are trying their best to please their customers! But if your going to blame them for every little problem that is not their fault, don't even even bother modifying your car! When your car leaves whatever shop your at, and you approve the work, the rest, is all on you! So be informed, be cautious and OBEY rules #1 through #3!

More on how exactly how to tune a car later. I know a few things, everyone must spread around for the benefit of the industry. When you buy a block from IB, you can count on this break in procedure to work for you because the hone job is the best you can buy with money. Beware of buying blocks from people that don't even know what grit the final hone was done at or that have visually very cross-hatched blocks. There are a lot of people who "appear" to be smart about engines, who you might see on some site on the internet or whatever, with thousands of posts. Some people say whatever they need to to make a sale, and don't even know what they are selling! Hype and talk doesn't build good motors. Also beware of people that you can see, logging 10+ hours a day of BSing on message boards. How can they be involved in building motors, and the whole quality assurance process when they are online 10+ hours a day? They must have a laptop on their engine building stand I guess. I can say, first hand, we have done in the Hundreds of blocks, as in ranging up in the 500 block+ area. I have been the #1 customer at many large companies that you can call to confirm. We are the anti-hype. We do the volume, we have the success, we have the best procedures, the best products, the most proven. I have stood over, and watched being built to assure quality assurance, and built them myself all those blocks. I open up a new engine building room here soon, where I can build them even more efficiently. I can tell you that I know how my blocks work and break in because, heck, I have tuned them with less than 5 miles on them and seen the customers drive them around for years! Watch out, there is a lot of hype and salesmanship going on that is easy to see through. We build them, have installed them, and tuned them. We know our products like no other.
Oh and recently, in 2005 to practice what I preach, I built a motor for a friend of mine, hooked up the wideband, started it up, set the air fuel ratio to 14.7, he drove home, then drove to dyno with hardly any miles on the motor. Five minutes later on the dyno, I am doing 10,000 RPM on the motor a good 30+ times in a row. And you look in the muffler, at the exhaust interior pipe and its clean metal, no soot, no black, nothing. Because the bore and hone was so clean and straight, the rings didn't need a long term break in.


ALSO CHECK THESE OUT
http://www.importbuilders.com/tuningacar.htm
http://www.importbuilders.com/timetotunemycar.htm
http://www.importbuilders.com/simplerulestofollow.htm

[Bishop]

mike for president

[Wurm]

what you charge per tune mike?

[Vteckidd]

oh so everyone knows I DID NOT WRITE that article, thats from jeff@importbuilders. and hes SOOOOO RIGHT on everything he says.

Tuning, we charge $140/hr. Break in tuning/idle tuning depending on how crazy the car is can take up to 1 hour

[2.3 Evo 8]

thats no secret, REPOST.

you break a motor in the WAY it is designed to run. IE if your building a 600whp car, break it in HARD.

Creating vacuum is the only way to properly seat the rings. IE you want to do quick bursts of speed an coast down letting the transmission slow the car down, this creates a massive vacuum in the cylinder that pushed the rings out against the cylinder wall. if the motor is built right, there should be no problems running it up to redline with less than 10 miles on it (with proper air/fuels of course)

this is how we break all our customer motors in. We crank them up an let them idle to operating temp. Let it sit an run for 15min at idle. Shut them off, change the oil and replace oil filter. Drive it to the dyno, strap it down, and tune for idle, then do WOT pulls to 6000rpms. THen after the a/f ratios are acceptable, rev it out to redline.

hell, my 2.0l LSVTEC we cranked up on the engine dyno, let it idle, checked for leaks, then proceeded to do 8900rpm pulls. I never saw any problems out of that bottom end, and it lived long enough to see 300+ dyno pulls on a chassis dyno.

:goodjob: Exactly! Mine is getting treated like it should be, HARD! The first 10 miles put on my car were dynoing the car making WOT pulls. ;)

I put 190 miles on mine last weekend and I'm changing the oil when I get back in town and check for metal shavings. Then, I will put 250 more miles on it and change the oil again and check for metal shavings one more time. Then repeat the process at the 1000 mile mark, probably with full synthetic.

[Vteckidd]

and thats why your car will make KILLER power

[LordMDP]

yup- i brake in all my stuff like i'm going to ride/drive it

i change the oil quite a biut at the start though

[ShooterMcGavin]

so i'm at like just over 500 miles, will be at 1k by the end of the week and i haven't really been getting on it. any suggestions on how to finish breaking it in? or is it too late to do anything?

[Vteckidd]

its too late, get it on the dyno FAST

[MongolPup]

Is the shag wagon modded?

[ShooterMcGavin]

not yet but i am starting to lean towards a chip...

[Hulud]

whatever happened to chipping it wayne? LOL

[2.0civic]

holy back from the dead

[ShooterMcGavin]

whatever happened to chipping it wayne? LOL
don't have $600 laying around right now. thinking i'm goin to hold off and just put that money to the next car :goodjob:

[Hulud]

holy back from the dead
you posted the link LOL

[Hulud]

don't have $600 laying around right now. thinking i'm goin to hold off and just put that money to the next car :goodjob:
yea yea, we've all said/heard that before

[2.0civic]

you posted the link LOL

LOL IT WAS TO PROVE THE POINT HOW EASY IT IS TO SEARCH LOLOL

[ShooterMcGavin]

good example, now sticky it so everyone can see it? :D

[Hulud]

LOL IT WAS TO PROVE THE POINT HOW EASY IT IS TO SEARCH LOLOL
your point? LOL

[katokars]

I have learned alot from this

[Tasuki_Civic]

man that was a lot to read

[RandomGuy]

damn that sucks i sure wish sum1 would have posted this back when i was breaking my motor in

i was doing the old school technique

500 miles no redlining, change oil/filter
1k miles later push it on occaision, change oil/filter
2k miles later push it sometimes change oil/filter
all using shitty walmart oil (supposedly not so bad)

and now synthetic 20w50 mobil1, push it whenever

but yeah if this motor lasts even 10k miles i'll be happy

its a starion

[strikeAmatch]

whhhaaaaat

[GSRteg®]

Good find! :yes:

[AnthonyF]

awesome. Thats what I did. I built my motor, put it in the car, and went up the street and hit 10psi as quickly as possible. I didn't think the "driving easy" shit worked. it seemed as if you were babying the motor then when it came to actually hit WOT...the pistons wouldnt be used to it.

[sullen]

at least i can honestly say i can hone my block... get the 700 grit honing stuff from the CNC machinery. but in all honesty again, theres a shop. called the "motorcycle shop". owners are spanish. dan somebody or another. well, his kid started it and killed himself in a crash, so dan took over. ha, his mechanics couldn't ream the valve guides. by hand, including set up, getting all the tools, clean up afterwards and the reaming process, it took seriously less than 7 minutes. so 7 minutes of my time, $100. not bad... so i guess, you should learn how to do shit for yourself. same thing with valve lapping. i've made a quick $150 bucks to lap a motorcycle head in before. all because people couldn't comprehend what that suction cup on the lapping handle is for... or the lapping paste. theres a guy in my neighborhood, i told him not to switch from regular oil to synthetic. he went ahead and switched anyways, and destroyed his block... anyone know why? when he switched, the synthetic loosened all the sludge, sludge goes into oil galleries, and boom, blown motor. i mean that was a costly piece of advice that had to be learned the hard way. but whatever, not my problem.

[sullen]

once again, i do wanna point out...the vast majority of these idiots own hondas... beginner car, so gotta learn on it.

[n1accord]

This is THE best post that I've ever read on this site(repost or not!)! I really appreciate the knowledge and honesty. I'm sure that all these guys who preparing to slap these expensive builds into their cars should take this info. to heart and use this advice! I AM! LOL 'I ain't got a money tree in my back yard' Preesh8it fellas! POST MORE!

[khaxnguyen]

i wonder, doesn't it depend on what kind of motor you're building. for example, a race motor and a daily motor? does that make a difference in what ways you should break it in? or just run it hard then head to dyno? :???:

[Vteckidd]

you should run it hard ON THE DYNO. never run the motor hard unless you can monitor a/f ratios.

[Z U L8R]

i just put my motor back together last weekend. wiseco's 20 over, twisted grimes did my machine work

when i was ready to start it: i put in non detergant straight 30 weight oil.
disconnected cam angle sensor and cranked it for 15-20 seconds two times to initially prime oil in it. connected my cas back up

started the car, let it idle for 2 minutes till my lifter's pumped up. held it at 1800 rpm for 10 minutes until my coolant reached operating temperature. cut the car off and topped off my antifreeze after it burped, changed the oil and filter.

put in rotella t 15w-40 drove to the gas station. then basically worked my way in 2nd 3rd & 4th gear from 30% throttle 3k rpm, to 60% throttle 5k rpm, then 100% throttle to redline within the first 20 miles (all on lowest possible boost which was 8psi). then continued to drive for an hour and a half gettin on it whenever possible. didn't get any blow by whatsoever.

200 miles later, i changed the oil and filter again, more rotella t 15w-40 (i'm gonna continue to use it, i'm emissions excempt) plus the zddp (zinc diaphosphate some shit) that rotella t has is great for performance engines. i also changed my plugs back to the iridium kind i always run and i checked compression just to get an idea of how i was doing on my break in. 170psi on all 6 cylinders with 5 seconds of cranking on each, i'm sure it'd be a little more but considering my first motor was 135psi across the board and my second motor was 150 across the board i was excited =]

so now i'm 500-600 miles into it, still beating it's ass on 8psi, no problems, tomorrow i'm going to tune low and high boost. before i go tune i'm gonna change the oil one more time.

basically the significance was, the people saying be easy on it, or be at one constant speed and don't push it at first, ARE WRONG. from what i've found you're hone is only going to file the compression rings REALLY WELL for the first 20-60 miles, therefore within that window, it's crucial to work your way to 100% throttle / redline within that window.

this thread really helped me. it it absolutely does make sense. granted it goes against "i just spent a shit load on this motor i don't wanna break it already" but you gotta get on it now if you wanna get on it later.

thx mike
Dave

[blaknoize]

So... u can do this with any car, not just a car u intend on increasing horsepower? Or... setting it up for a race, u can do this to just any car u have and it will be alright?

[Z U L8R]

yes as far as within the first 20-60 miles you need to work your way up from 25% throttle and low rpm, to half throttle mid rpm, to full throttle and redline. after you punch it, stay in gear and allow the motor to decelerate on it's own, don't coast in neutral. it's all about seating the piston rings while the fresh hone on the cylinder walls still can file away at the rings.

change your oil frequently, and stay away from synthetic on a fresh motor.

[blaknoize]

One more time for clarification. If I purchase, say a new Civic or something from a dealership with... 1-2 test drive miles on it. I run it as listed on this and then it's good to go? Cuz I'ma con one of u guys to attend me in this when I do purchase another car.