Thinking of starting a new project, what engine should I use?

[allmotoronly]

Ok guys, I am thinking of starting a new project. Chassis will be a 99-00 civic coupe. As for the engine, I have not made up my mind on anything yet. B-series, H-series, F20B, K-series.... All have ups and downs. My budget on the engine should be about $4k. I like the B-series engines and H series engines, but for some reason I am not very fond of the K-Series... I guess I'm too old school for i-VTEC. Also I am MUCH more familiar with the B/H series. I have always wanted to swap a JDM accord SiR-T F20B (200HP, 142tq, 7450rpm redline, 1997 cc) into a civic chassis. It is about the same price as the H22A and has some advantages over the H22A. One being that it has steel sleeves, not FRM. Another is that the head is almost the exact same as the JDM H22A type S engine. Also it has a 88mm stroke (90.7mm in a H22A), which means it has high rev capabilities. It has a 85mm bore (H22A has 87mm). Together, these measurements allow the engine to rev higher while having the same piston speed as a H22A. At about 7400rpm the F20B pistons are travelling as fast as a H22A at 8000 rpm. It doesnt sound like a lot but the cylinders will wear less at the same rpm as a H22A. I have seen these engines pull 9k rpm in stock form with different valvesprings all day long. I know these same specs are possible (and probably easier) with a B-series, but everybody has a B-Series these days, and my big plan is to do something that you don't see a lot. I have done the H22A thing a few times. I like it, but the piston rings are shit. Let me know what you guys think.

[CSquared]

Other: LS1

[2.0civic]

turbo d series or GSR...type r will kill your budget

[2.0civic]

or a b20 with room left for good mods

[allmotoronly]

Other: LS1

uhhh good luck getting that to fit in a civic. besides... LS1's are slow and weak compared to what I have in my other car... REAL muscle.

[allmotoronly]

turbo d series or GSR...type r will kill your budget

the GSR engine will run me about $2500... for that I can have an H-series or the F20B... why would you go with the B18C1?

BTW... using a D-series never crossed my mind. SOHC=boring.... I am addicted to 3 rocker VTEC.

[dwnsthGABOY]

K20a FTW, my second choice would be a jdm gsr motor, but u are right everbody does have a b series engine and hopefully in a few weeks I'll become one of those ppl. LOL!!!

H22a>h22a4, but H22a type-s owns both of those.

[aaronfelipe]

K24.

[allmotoronly]

K20a FTW, my second choice would be a jdm gsr motor, but u are right everbody does have a b series engine and hopefully in a few weeks I'll become one of those ppl. LOL!!!

H22a>h22a4, but H22a type-s owns both of those.

yea I had a H22A SiR S-Spec, which is a type S engine with a LSD tranny instead of the ATTS tranny. it was hard as shit to find though...

[N/A EK]

H22A S-Spec or Euro-R 220hp

[allmotoronly]

I prefer the Euro-R engine over the type S due its subtle differences. The cams in the euro are not quite as hot as the type S, but the euro-r intake manifold more than makes up for it. I have seen a euro-r engine with type S cams put down around 210whp, which is probably about 235 fwhp or so. The euro-r tranny is a lot better than the ATTS type S tranny which is identical to a USDM prelude SH tranny. Most people think the jdm type S engine and the Euro-R engine are the same, but the cams and intake manifolds are different. the bottom end has the same specs though.

[§treet_§peed]

D SERIES FTMW YO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[§treet_§peed]

here's a few suggestions...

[§treet_§peed]

either a EV1, C32A, SR20Dett, 2JZGTE, or 351 Windser (sp?)...:D :goodjob:

[HalfBaked]

SR20Dett

DAMN AN SR20DETT?!

TWIN TURBO SR20?

HELL YA!

TWIN TURBO 4 CYL FOR THE WIN!

[Ludester]

I'm always partial to h22a type S and the spec S along with the F20B.


I say go with the F20B!

[R_Rated]

DAMN AN SR20DETT?!

TWIN TURBO SR20?

HELL YA!

TWIN TURBO 4 CYL FOR THE WIN!

with a good set of headers!

i'm glad I read before replying.... I was going to crack the SR20 joke!.... maybe he should go RB!

[allmotoronly]

ok I'm pretty sure none of those will fit into a civic chassis without extensive modifications which I do NOT want to do...

[Ludester]

I prefer the Euro-R engine over the type S due its subtle differences. The cams in the euro are not quite as hot as the type S, but the euro-r intake manifold more than makes up for it. I have seen a euro-r engine with type S cams put down around 210whp, which is probably about 235 fwhp or so. The euro-r tranny is a lot better than the ATTS type S tranny which is identical to a USDM prelude SH tranny. Most people think the jdm type S engine and the Euro-R engine are the same, but the cams and intake manifolds are different. the bottom end has the same specs though.

yep... I concour with this you man...

here is another choice to consider. the prelude SIR spec S. Same damn engine as the type s but has a single runner intake manifold as the euro r. The only damn reason this engine doesn't beat the type s engine in performance is because it didn't get the 2.25" exhaust system from factory like the type s did. sir spec S tranny is also the same as the usdm sh/base and jdm type s. The only difference is that the T2W4 sir spec S tranny has LSD; unlike the type s and sh bullshit electronic shit that only kicks in when your pretty much going to die if you don't hug a corner at full throttle at high speeds. I can't wait to get rid of in a couple of days ;) ...

^^^disregard all of this... I just read that you already had the sir spec s engine....

[Vteckidd]

GSR, with $4000 you can do a GSR with cams, clutch, mount kit, more if you shop around.

H22s might be "better" for the money, but they have:
1) Shit transmissions when it comes to GEARING
2) They dont have as much aftermarket support
3) They are VERY inconsistent, some make 155whp, some make 175whp stock.
4) Cam choices suck, except for PRO series from SKunk2 IMO
5) Cable shifters, require ALOT more wiring and fab work to fit in a civic
6) Emissions NEARLY impossible if you care about it

GSR, best motor for the buck hands down.

If you plan on doing the work yourself, id prob get an ITR motor, for the Tranny and the cams. Its the best motor to have if you plan on doing NOTHING to it, ask Tom aka b18C5_eh2. He has had his ITR for more than 5 years, an ran 13.2s in it, BONE STOCK motor. He also has quite a few kills includnig an h22 EG that made 193whp

[Ludester]

Mike do you mind posting some gear ratios so we can compare?

[Vteckidd]

sure

H22 Gear Ratios=SHIT
GSR=Better

[BTEC]

GSR

[Ludester]

lol... I want numbers.....

[Ludester]

for example:
92-96 vtec prelude tranny gearing:
1st: 3.307
2nd: 1.950
3rd: 1.360
4th: 1.034
5th: 0.787

Final drive:
4.266.


just want you to prove your point. I've heard that and have yet to see a gearing chart for b series so here is your chance to prove that the gearing is indeed better.

[Vteckidd]

honda-tech.com has the gear ratios

Or PM skunked on HT and ask him how switching to a GSR tranny on his H22 netted him a .4 second faster time CONSISTENTLY over his H22 tranny in the 1/4 mile

[Ludester]

mike it depends on what tranny... I'm looking at a chart here with about 10 different tranny that can bolt to the h22 motor. most guys that swap h22's into hatches or whatever, almost 95% or more of them have m2a4 or a m2f4 or the m2y4 trannies which are not racing trannies IMO. which I agree with you are SHIT! But if they ever tried T2T4 or U2Q4 or T2WA (and a couple of other's I won't list) it more than likely would be a different story...

[Vteckidd]

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1475661

READ and LEARN

H22 tranny
12.62's at 107mph

With GSR TRANNY
12.23@112mph
12.28@114mph

Only mod he did was switch to a STOCK GEARED GSR tranny, he picked up .4 in the quarter along with 5-7mph trap speed.

[Ludester]

Like I stated in my last post. He had the wrong gearing tranny. The tranny he has is the same tranny gearing I actually posted a few post back. post numbers of a gsr tranny and I'll post one of a more respectable tranny for the H. don't reply by say pm somebody because you made a statement so back it up. I Want to see gearing numbers.

I like I said in my last post... 95% of the poeple with h22 swaps have a forth gen prelude tranny.

Post gearing numbers for gzzer and the type r and we can have a discussion. I really could care less if in the end the gearing of which is better. I don't think its fare for you or anybody else to say h22 tranny = shit when you are comparing a regular h tranny to a gzzer or type r when there are at least 5 other h trannies with better gearing than can be found; just rare to come across. post the gearing and I'll post the gearing of the top notch h's and we can take it from there....

T.E.L.

[Vteckidd]

why do i have to do all the reasearch for you? i know the answer cause i have DRIVEN, BUILT , RODE in cars with all kinds of different combos. Since you think there are these RARE H22 trannys out there that are SO MUCH better, please, feel free to teach me something, im all ears. Why do i have to come up with all the info? if you think your teaching me or telling me something i dont already know, please, ive built plenty of NA cars, my last B SERIES 2.0l made 237whp, highest in the state still to this day.

The reason people have those trannys is because they are READILY AVAILABLE. If theres some EURO-R spec S JDM SIRG tranny out there that is better than anything ever made, please locate me one, and let me know how much it costs.

Bottom line is if you want EASE of swap, MASS market of parts that WORK, endless room to grow, Tons of OEM interchanability from trannys , pistons, timing belts, cams, BETTER GEARING OPTIONS

GSR/ITR>H22

H22s can make good power, but i only reccomend them if you KNOW what you are doing, and are competent in what it takes to do the swap, wiring, and what it takes to make them make power. but like i said, in the end, the tranny is always your weak link.

THE ONLY H22 ON IA THAT REMOTELY IMPRESSES ME IS GOINFASTERTHANU, a STOCK h22 with bolt ons making 19xwhp. Other than that, im not impressed with the H series at all.

[Ludester]

lol why you getting defensive? Who asked you to do research? Aren't Mr. B series? I thought you could've given me a quick gearing ratio of the top of your head I guess not.

you made a statement I said to back it up that's all. it was a perfect oppertunity for you to shine and your backing down?

Don't worry... those rare trannies you want to see... I'll drive my car to your shop in a couple of weeks and you can see one...

Didn't know you would've gotten so defensive. I thought forums were for debates but I guess not...

I already know how you feel about h series. in fact when it comes to honda I feel the same about b series. i don't have anything against that. I just want to post gearing ratios so we can compare... I'm not trying to bump heads with you guy... Just want something to compare thats all. jeez...

[Vteckidd]

lol why you getting defensive? Who asked you to do research? Aren't Mr. B series? I thought you could've given me a quick gearing ratio of the top of your head I guess not.

you made a statement I said to back it up that's all. it was a perfect oppertunity for you to shine and your backing down?



You want me to argue things that have already been argued on this board 20,000,0000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.04 times already.

Opportunity to shine? HAHA, i dont need to spit out gear ratios to "shine". Sometimes, i expect people to take a little work on themselves, do a little reasearch, come up with their own ideas. I dont have to post the answer to everything, matter of fact i rarely post in the tech forums anymore unless i see a lot of misinformation being thrown around, like i see in this thread.

If you want to challenge yourself, go look up Gear vs Gear, FD vs FD, and feel free to expound on it. Tell me why a GSR or ITR tranny, or even a B16 tranny is better than an H22 in all motor, why would you want to have a horter gear, and when does it become too short? remember GEARING vs RPM as well as thats a direct coorelation.

my only point was that the B series transmission are more setup for ALL MOTOR than the H22. You want me to GIVE you info, i dont think i need to. You said that the H22 trannys were better, and there are RARE transmissions that are better than B series, PROVE it, post up about it man. Im sure if you are making this arguement you have the info to prove me wrong.

[allmotoronly]

thanks for the imput guys!

[Vteckidd]

OK heres a HINT of INFO:

My CRX had a 187whp GSR motor in it:
PR3 pistons
Stock Rods
Rocket Motorsport M22X cams
ANR header

My CRX Weighed 2172 WITHOUT ME IN IT, so i weigh 200lbs. thats almost 2400lbs.

ON STREET TIRES (kuhmo HP4 passenger tires) i ran 13.8@103mph with a 2.0 60ft

ACCORDM3 has 227whp H22, with H22 Trans. ON SLICKS AND DRAG RADIALS he is running 13.4-13.8s trapping 103mph. His car prob weighs a good 100lbs less than my old CRX.

so i made 40whp less, 30TQ less with a heavier car an trapped the same speed. what does that tell you? he needs a better geared tranny an i guarantee he would be deep in the 13s if not high 12s, with 107-108 trap

[Ludester]

You want me to argue things that have already been argued on this board 20,000,0000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.04 times already.

Opportunity to shine? HAHA, i dont need to spit out gear ratios to "shine". Sometimes, i expect people to take a little work on themselves, do a little reasearch, come up with their own ideas. I dont have to post the answer to everything, matter of fact i rarely post in the tech forums anymore unless i see a lot of misinformation being thrown around, like i see in this thread.

If you want to challenge yourself, go look up Gear vs Gear, FD vs FD, and feel free to expound on it. Tell me why a GSR or ITR tranny, or even a B16 tranny is better than an H22 in all motor, why would you want to have a horter gear, and when does it become too short? remember GEARING vs RPM as well as thats a direct coorelation.

my only point was that the B series transmission are more setup for ALL MOTOR than the H22. You want me to GIVE you info, i dont think i need to. You said that the H22 trannys were better, and there are RARE transmissions that are better than B series, PROVE it, post up about it man. Im sure if you are making this arguement you have the info to prove me wrong.

amen... you are right I have done the research already.. but I was hoping you could prove me wrong lol. I don't want to prove anybody wrong. I want a discussion about the two series of tranny so that people can make there own decisions vs listening to what someone says. People respond to RAW fact better than they do opinion one would think.

challenge myself? lol i could care less why I b16 or a gzzr or type r tranny is better. Remember i feel the same way about b series as you do h series so i don't care. I'm looking for raw facts not opinion. The guy you posted about from h-t I'm well aware of him but you have to consider that the tranny he was using did not even have lsd(4th gen vtec); but his gzzr tranny did LSD. ofcourse your going to run a faster 1/4 time based on that alone. so that is not an empiracle fact because all things were not equal...

[Vteckidd]

The guy you posted about from h-t I'm well aware of him but you have to consider that the tranny he was using did not even have lsd(4th gen vtec); but his gzzr tranny did LSD. ofcourse your going to run a faster 1/4 time based on that alone. so that is not an empiracle fact because all things were not equal...

ahhhh but if you run big enough slicks, A differential does not matter.

[Ludester]

OK heres a HINT of INFO:

My CRX had a 187whp GSR motor in it:
PR3 pistons
Stock Rods
Rocket Motorsport M22X cams
ANR header

My CRX Weighed 2172 WITHOUT ME IN IT, so i weigh 200lbs. thats almost 2400lbs.

ON STREET TIRES (kuhmo HP4 passenger tires) i ran 13.8@103mph with a 2.0 60ft

ACCORDM3 has 227whp H22, with H22 Trans. ON SLICKS AND DRAG RADIALS he is running 13.4-13.8s trapping 103mph. His car prob weighs a good 100lbs less than my old CRX.

so i made 40whp less, 30TQ less with a heavier car an trapped the same speed. what does that tell you? he needs a better geared tranny an i guarantee he would be deep in the 13s if not high 12s, with 107-108 trap


but it still falls back on what tranny they were using (speaking of the guys with h22's that your referring to above).
I can almost garauntee you most people with a h22 swap have a forth gen vtec tranny. Which I do agree with you they are shit for n/a. H has way better trannies out there. Like i posted above eariler I'll try drive my car to MS in a couple of weeks and you can look at a t2W4 tranny.

You also have to factory driving skills. No saying that the guys with the h22's can't drive and your better driver out of all of them. Not to mention I doubt these times you posted all things were equal. Same day/temp/track/driver fatigue/ etc.. etc...


All I asked was for you to post up a gear of the gzzr tranny and would post one of the better trannies for the H so we could compare...

T.E.L.

[Ludester]

thanks for the imput guys!

go with the f20b man.... it has a high rev capability and has room for improvements.... your one step ahead of me if you do this cause the f20b is going to be my next project. Since they can be found for right around $1500.

[Ludester]

ahhhh but if you run big enough slicks, A differential does not matter.

big enough slicks??? what does that have to do with gearing ratio of a gsr and gear ratio of a more racing h series tranny?


Not a thing.... post a gear ratio....

[Vteckidd]

Trans Code T2T4
1: 3.285
2: 1.956
3: 1.344
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.266

GSR Tranny
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

B16 Tranny
1: 3.307
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4

T2T4 is a decent geared tranny, but still has a 4.2 FD and a longer 3rd gear vs the GSR. B16 tranny destroys the F20B trans everywhere.

Now, FIND ME A F20B SIR ACCORD TRANNY, find me a place i can buy one tomrrow. Cause i can make a phone call and get 10 /B16GSR trannys if i need to.

Advantage, GSR/B16

[Vteckidd]

big enough slicks??? what does that have to do with gearing ratio of a gsr and gear ratio of a more racing h series tranny?


Not a thing.... post a gear ratio....

You said that Skunkeds Car wasnt an accurate comaprison because he had an OPEN DIFF tranny vs a LSD GSR tranny.

my resposnse was, if you know anything about drag racing, if you run a big enough slick, LSD does not matter, both tires will spin.

[Vteckidd]

the tranny he was using did not even have lsd(4th gen vtec); but his gzzr tranny did LSD. ofcourse your going to run a faster 1/4 time based on that alone. so that is not an empiracle fact because all things were not equal...

BTW
skunked (7:02 PM 10/2/2006): open diff, 1.7/1.6 60's on it though


He ran the same 60fts with a LSD GSR tranny, so theres goes that arguement.

NEXT

[93H22ACX]

i dont have a h22 anymore but....


:D
all i can say is at 187whp i trapped 105mph ran 12.8@105mph and 12.9@104mph with big ass slicks 24.5x8x13....the car weigh in at 2250lb with me in it....and it was only 187whp.

I had the USDM 4th gen h22 tranny... and i must say.. my 3rd and 4th gear tops out way before peters GSR tranny did...even peter said my h-series was way too short.... thats why i shift at 9500-9800rpm lol.....

oh well..no more hondas for me....

go with a K24 and k20 head for NA....other wise h22:goodjob:

BTW...these are my bias opinions.

[Vteckidd]

i dont have a h22 anymore but....


:D
all i can say is at 187whp i trapped 105mph ran 12.8@105mph and 12.9@104mph with big ass slicks 24.5x8x13....the car weigh in at 2250lb with me in it....and it was only 187whp.

I had the USDM 4th gen h22 tranny... and i must say.. my 3rd and 4th gear tops out way before peters GSR tranny did...even peter said my h-series was way too short.... thats why i shift at 9500-9800rpm lol.....

oh well..no more hondas for me....

go with a K24 and k20 head for NA....other wise h22:goodjob:

BTW...these are my bias opinions.

yeah but you could actually drive :) and your h22 impressed me NA but you dont have it anymore LOL

[93H22ACX]

yeah but you could actually drive :) and your h22 impressed me NA but you dont have it anymore LOL


:(

[allmotoronly]

For everyone who did not read the opening of the thread, I have already had a few H22A's including a SiR S-Spec model. I know a lot more about the H series and what works than the B series engines, but as I said in the beginning, I want to try something new. Mr. 2JZKIDD makes a few good points about performance and especially ease of finding parts. That is one of my concerns. keep on with the suggestions!!!

[Ludester]

Trans Code T2T4
1: 3.285
2: 1.956
3: 1.344
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.266

GSR Tranny
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

B16 Tranny
1: 3.307
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4

T2T4 is a decent geared tranny, but still has a 4.2 FD and a longer 3rd gear vs the GSR. B16 tranny destroys the F20B trans everywhere.

Now, FIND ME A F20B SIR ACCORD TRANNY, find me a place i can buy one tomrrow. Cause i can make a phone call and get 10 /B16GSR trannys if i need to.

Advantage, GSR/B16


I'm at work on my pocket pc. as soon as I get home ill post up a couple of trannies to compare.


damn dude was that hard?

[Ludester]

GSR Tranny[/B]
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

B16 Tranny
1: 3.307
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4



the t2t4 is the accord sir tranny :rolleyes: ...

The gsr and the t2t4 tranny are amost identical. first longer on the accord. second longer on the gsr. Third longer on the accord. forth and fifth are identical. that's interesting... So even with a t2t4 having a stronger first and third you still say advantage gsr? ok....

If I was to build a n/a h I would use this tranny below. Long first quick second. Strong third and forth with a good fifth. But I'm not building a n/a h. At least not in the near future...
U2Q7
1: 3.285
2: 2.090
3: 1.481
4: 1.071
5: 0.870
final drive 4.266

I can see the gsr give chase in third but forth is still quick on the u2q7.

Good job mike but I beg to differ so for on YOUR opinion :taun: .

Type R gearing please?

[allmotoronly]

good luck finding a U2Q7...

[allmotoronly]

the T2W4 would be a little easier (Euro-R) to find...

[allmotoronly]

here are the specs of a few tranny's compatable with the F/H series

Prelude

M2A4 - JDM 4G
M2B4 - JDM 4G LSD
M2F4 - USDM 4G
M2U4 - JDM 5G Type-S ATTS/USDM Type-SH ATTS
M2Y4 - JDM/USDM 5G Base
M2Z4 - JDM 5G SiR S-Spec/JDM 5G w/ LSD option

Gear ratio

M2A4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.787 - 4.266
M2B4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.787 - 4.266 LSD
M2F4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266
M2U4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 ATTS
M2Y4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266
M2Z4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD

Accord

T2T4 - JDM Accord SiR-T (F20B) LSD
T2W4 - JDM Accord Euro-R LSD
U2Q7 - EDM Accord Type-R LSD

specs

T2T4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
T2W4 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
U2Q7 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266 LSD

[Ludester]

allmotoronly it took me a year to find a fucking (tranny code goes here).... for my motor

[Ludester]

You said that Skunkeds Car wasnt an accurate comaprison because he had an OPEN DIFF tranny vs a LSD GSR tranny.

my resposnse was, if you know anything about drag racing, if you run a big enough slick, LSD does not matter, both tires will spin.

slicks have nothing to do with one tranny being better than another anyways... slicks are an independent variable....

[H23]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

GSR tranny is better because you can get it sooner? STFU. You don't have any idea what you're saying.

[dwnsthGABOY]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

Are you fucking kidding me, ur ass should be banned. Get ur noob ass outta here bitch!!!

[98vtec]

when it comes down to it, an H series tranny cannot compete with a b series in stock form. There are companies who make complete gear sets for the B series. The only thing you can do with an H series is change the final drive and mix and match stock gears. And thats not something your everyday tuner is going to accomplish.

H2b is great, however its applications are limited to civics and integras.

the aftermarket support for the h22 is finally starting to grow and i can see it EVENTUALLY being where the B series is now, but i dont see it happening any time soon.

Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love my h22 and the tranny (jdm 4th gen), but there is no comparing it to a GSR. the acceleration with a B series just outplays the h22's capability...at this moment in time.

[Ludester]

when it comes down to it, an H series tranny cannot compete with a b series in stock form. There are companies who make complete gear sets for the B series. The only thing you can do with an H series is change the final drive and mix and match stock gears. And thats not something your everyday tuner is going to accomplish.

H2b is great, however its applications are limited to civics and integras.

the aftermarket support for the h22 is finally starting to grow and i can see it EVENTUALLY being where the B series is now, but i dont see it happening any time soon.

Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love my h22 and the tranny (jdm 4th gen), but there is no comparing it to a GSR. the acceleration with a B series just outplays the h22's capability...at this moment in time.

thanks for chiming in Blake... I guess that's a gracious way of saying... Mike you win for now :rolleyes: ...

[98vtec]

thanks for chiming in Blake... I guess that's a gracious way of saying... Mike you win for now :rolleyes: ...

i understand trying to back our motors, but in this case a B series matched with our motor will prevail over any H tranny.

[fawk_you]

Euro- the most HP of course. ;)

[Ludester]

i understand trying to back our motors, but in this case a B series matched with our motor will prevail over any H tranny.

it really wasn't about if the b was better than the H. I here from people all the time that they are better so I just asked for him to back his statement up.

to stay on topic... f20b ftw... :goodjob:

[98vtec]

Euro- the most HP of course. ;)
waste of money if you plan on modifying internally.

[fawk_you]

waste of money if you plan on modifying internally.
So true. I retract my statement. :cry: BOO. haha I like the euro tho thats why I said it...

[HalfBaked]

It doesn't matter, a turbo 4 cyl will bust your ass regardless.

[allmotoronly]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

GSR tranny is better because you can get it sooner? STFU. You don't have any idea what you're saying.

who the fuck are you and where do you come off saying some shit like that.
I think thats grounds for banning that dumb son of a bitch... If you don't have anything useful to say, stay the FUCK out of my thread.

[Vteckidd]

your talking about a Accord EURO R tranny.

WOW, i bet i can find those anywhere LOL

Also, your comparing GEARS TO GEARS but totally neglecting the Final Drive.

Also x2, The GSR tranny was better all around on SKunkeds setup. YOU SAID i couldnt compare an OPEN DIFF H22 tranny to a LSD GSR Tranny, i then proved to you that HE RAN THE SAME 60fts with the LSD TRANNY, and he himself said the GSR tranny was better.

He said if you can find someone with an accord EUROR tranny doe les than $1200 and is willing to seperate it form the motor, he wouldl think about it. But he would rather be able to call and get a B series tranny for $500-800 anytime he needs one.

To the H23 guy, STFU

[allmotoronly]

I looked for a Euro-R tranny for like a year before i got my complete SiR S-Spec swap... I could never find one for a reasonable price (less than $2000)..

[H23]

Ban me if you like, I don't give a shit, but when you have a "respectable member" posting such bullshit like that, something is seriously wrong.

Go ahead, call yourselves Honda "experts", but when you post bullshit like the GSR tranny is better than the H22, proof being that you can get it shipped faster, you deserved to get flamed by people like me.

Knowledge > you.


For the OP, to stay on topic, go with the F20b. It's got the power of an H22 with iron sleeves. 200 hp would be plenty as is, but if you ever feel the need to build it/boost it or both, you don't need to deal with FRM. The K-series shouldn't even be in here with a $4k budget..

However, I don't really know why I'm helping you after calling me a "dumb son of a bitch." Go ahead, listen to 2JZ boy.

[i4_garage]

K24......worth it in the long run....considering ur run is gonna long....lolz....that is wat i am going wit

[allmotoronly]

i thought about it... I ALMOST bought a TSX a few months ago, but it was really under powered. The engine was sporty but VTEC engagement at 6k and the weight of the car made it really slow. I can imagine a K24A2 (which has 3 rocker VTEC just like the K20A2 and K20A type R) would run pretty good in a civic. The main difference in the engines (other than the ECU which is shitty in the TSX) is that the VTC intake cam gear has about half of the electronic advancement of the K20A2 (25* instead of a max 50* on the K20A2). some people have modded the cam gear to 40*, but any more than that and valve clearance is an issue. Hondata makes a reflash that adds almost 20whp to a TSX, which shows the stock program is shit. The TSX also uses drive by wire throttle body, which means that you will have to buy an intake manifold adaptor from hondata, and a K20A2 or type R intake manifold, so you can bolt up a traditional cable controlled TB. They are strong when tuned correctly. Hondata has done a lot of tests with the K24A2. They have swapped cams and a few other things. heres a link.


http://www.hondata.com/tuning_the_tsx.html

[Vteckidd]

Ban me if you like, I don't give a shit, but when you have a "respectable member" posting such bullshit like that, something is seriously wrong.

Go ahead, call yourselves Honda "experts", but when you post bullshit like the GSR tranny is better than the H22, proof being that you can get it shipped faster, you deserved to get flamed by people like me.

Knowledge > you.


For the OP, to stay on topic, go with the F20b. It's got the power of an H22 with iron sleeves. 200 hp would be plenty as is, but if you ever feel the need to build it/boost it or both, you don't need to deal with FRM. The K-series shouldn't even be in here with a $4k budget..

However, I don't really know why I'm helping you after calling me a "dumb son of a bitch." Go ahead, listen to 2JZ boy.

How is the GSR tranny not better than the h22? i ALREADY POSTED FACTS.

SKUNKED on HT ran .4 FASTER in the 1/4mile PLUS picked up 5mph trap speed. JUST FROM SWITCHING TO THE GSR TRANNY. nothing else was done.

He has a mildly built H22, he ran faster with the GSR tranny.

ITS SIMPLE, REALLY EASY. the GSR has BETTER gearing, and is EASIER to find than some Accord EURO SIR type-R tranny that barely exists.

How many h22 trannys out there have LSD? how many GSR trannys do? HOW EASY is it to get a GSR tranny? how EASY is it to get an T2W4 or whatever the fuckl its called.

What about the fact that KNOW ONE MAKES any gearing kits for the H22? I can call ATS RIGHT now an get a 4.9 FD for the GSR, or a gearset.

fact is the GSR has better gearing, PERIOD. whether you want to beleive it or not.

MY KNOWLEDGE>you

[allmotoronly]

MY KNOWLEDGE>you

LOL

[H23]

SKUNKED on HT ran .4 FASTER in the 1/4mile PLUS picked up 5mph trap speed. JUST FROM SWITCHING TO THE GSR TRANNY. nothing else was done.
Link?

Because seeing how the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear are identical and 1st and 2nd are extremely close, I doubt the tranmission alone would help almost half a second.


He has a mildly built H22, he ran faster with the GSR tranny.
That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.


ITS SIMPLE, REALLY EASY. the GSR has BETTER gearing, and is EASIER to find than some Accord EURO SIR type-R tranny that barely exists.
So what? I don't give a shit how easy it is to find. A D16 is real easy to find. I guess that gives it an adavantage too, huh?


How many h22 trannys out there have LSD? how many GSR trannys do? HOW EASY is it to get a GSR tranny? how EASY is it to get an T2W4 or whatever the fuckl its called.
H22 - 1

GSR - 1

Pretty easy I guess, they're common. So are H22s. The JDM LSD H22 transmission is the M2B4.


What about the fact that KNOW ONE MAKES any gearing kits for the H22? I can call ATS RIGHT now an get a 4.9 FD for the GSR, or a gearset.
Wow, that's awesome.. you want a cookie?


fact is the GSR has better gearing, PERIOD. whether you want to beleive it or not.
Uh, ok.


MY KNOWLEDGE>you

Dude, you are so rad.

I think it's totally cute you have a cheerleader.


Considering an H22 swap with an LSD tranny from HMO would run $600-700 less than a B18 swap and you get 10-20 more horsepower with .4L more to work with, you'd be stupid to get the B18 swap.

[Vteckidd]

Link?

Because seeing how the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear are identical and 1st and 2nd are extremely close, I doubt the tranmission alone would help almost half a second.



That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.

Really, LISTEN NOOB, quite while your WAY BEHIND

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1475661

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODU5NTg3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTE2NDY0OTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTE3MDg3MTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg


(6:18 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: did your old h22 tranny have an LSD or was it open diff?

(7:02 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: open diff, 1.7/1.6 60's on it though

(7:12 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: thanks, im having an arugment on H22 tranny gearing on a local forum , and people are trying to say that the H22 tranny is way better for all motor LOL.
i of course referenced your drop in time an your trap speed increase from swithcing to a GSR tranny. but someone said that you went from an OPEN diff to a LSD so its not an accurate comaprison. I was trying to prove them wrong based on your 60ft times


(7:19 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: it actually is becasue my 60 foots did not improve with LSD. The bigger difference was the FD change from 4.2 to 4.4. Now I have a 4.7 ITR gear box

(7:21 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: wow interesting, have you run it with the 4.7 yet?

(7:22 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: no, not yet.

So yes, the GSR tranny made his car run FASTER. You dont think its possible, well , dont take my word for it, ask someone that has done it. Also, have you ever compared a GSR tranny to a H22 tranny in any of your cars? do you have a GSR powered car? an h22 powered car? please list up your expertise




So what? I don't give a shit how easy it is to find. A D16 is real easy to find. I guess that gives it an adavantage too, huh?

No MORON, what im trying to say is instead of giving people this pipe dream about a super rare tranny they have to hunt down an pay big money for, be REALISTIC. Have you ever built a car before?



H22 - 1

GSR - 1

Pretty easy I guess, they're common. So are H22s. The JDM LSD H22 transmission is the M2B4.

Again, an h22 tranny with an LSD is still not better than a GSR tranny without an LSD. 4.4 FD >4.2FD. Do you know ANYTHING about all motor cars?







Dude, you are so rad.

I think it's totally cute you have a cheerleader.

Nextt time come back with some info, or ill school you again

[Wurm]

turbo diesel

[H23]

So yes, the GSR tranny made his car run FASTER. You dont think its possible, well , dont take my word for it, ask someone that has done it. Also, have you ever compared a GSR tranny to a H22 tranny in any of your cars? do you have a GSR powered car? an h22 powered car? please list up your expertise

Faster by how much? In that same thread he also claims to have added new mounts, a new header, and that transmission with a cusco LSD. Hardly sounds like just a transmission.. who knows what else he could've done? Maybe it was just a better run? Maybe it was at a lower elevation? This hardly gives me any faith in the sense that he ran .4 seconds quicker with just the S80 tranny.



No MORON, what im trying to say is instead of giving people this pipe dream about a super rare tranny they have to hunt down an pay big money for, be REALISTIC. Have you ever built a car before?

Go to HMO, look at the H-series motors, and stfu.


Again, an h22 tranny with an LSD is still not better than a GSR tranny without an LSD. 4.4 FD >4.2FD. Do you know ANYTHING about all motor cars?

Yes, I know it has a higher FD. How does that have anything to do with my knowledge of all motor cars? If my assumption is correct, FD's have to do with drivetrains, not motor setups.


Nextt time come back with some info, or ill school you again

Wow, tough words.

[Vteckidd]

thanks

My arguement skills>yours

thanks, come back some other time bye bye now

[H23]

That's right, ban me because you can't back up you BS biased info.


Your argument skills are better than mine? LOL! You can't even spell! I won't even mention grammar.

lmfao.. What are you, 12?

[Wurm]

That's right, ban me because you can't back up you BS biased info.
you have SARS

[allmotoronly]

just ban his ass. he is just making as ass of himself. it is pretty amusing though. this kid doesnt know what the FUCK he is talking about. after MR 2JZKIDD proved him wrong all he could come up with was

Wow, tough words.

what a douche

again H23, get the FUCK out of this thread if you are not contributing to MY THREAD, which you are not. We all know that B series parts are easier to find, and the gearing is clearly better in the GSR tranny. If anyone is an expert on N/A H22A's its me. I have had a couple and I know what works and what doesnt. I may not say a lot here on IA but I am around. The SiR S-spec tranny I had in my last prelude was cool, except for the fact that it was impossible to find a replacement. If i needed a GSR tranny, I could make a few calls and have one TODAY. If I needed a LSD H22A tranny, I would have to make a few calls TO JAPAN since they never offered a LSD tranny in a USDM H22A powered car. Only the JDM models got LSD. The JDM 4g prelude SiR and the JDM 5g Prelude SiR S-Spec/ CL1 Accord Euro R. Get your facts right before you get on here and run your stupid fucking mouth.

[Vteckidd]

I think for the price it would cost to FIND a EURO R tranny, you could do the H2B an have a badass H22

[allmotoronly]

That's right, ban me because you can't back up you BS biased info.


Your argument skills are better than mine? LOL! You can't even spell! I won't even mention grammar.

lmfao.. What are you, 12?

he backed up his info. are you blind or just fucking dumb. you on the other hand have not backed up anything. How is his info biased. Ask ANYONE on here or IL or H-T who MR 2JZKIDD or MR VTECKIDD or VTECKIDD is and they will set you strait. He is pretty much THE honda expert around here. you are a nobody. what have you done? what have you built of accomplished. Nothing, you cant even prove YOUR BS BIASED INFO

[H23]

just ban his ass. he is just making as ass of himself. it is pretty amusing though. this kid doesnt know what the FUCK he is talking about. after MR 2JZKIDD proved him wrong all he could come up with was


what a douche

Re-read my post.


again H23, get the FUCK out of this thread if you are not contributing to MY THREAD, which you are not.


For the OP, to stay on topic, go with the F20b. It's got the power of an H22 with iron sleeves. 200 hp would be plenty as is, but if you ever feel the need to build it/boost it or both, you don't need to deal with FRM. The K-series shouldn't even be in here with a $4k budget..

However, I don't really know why I'm helping you after calling me a "dumb son of a bitch." Go ahead, listen to 2JZ boy.


We all know that B series parts are easier to find, and the gearing is clearly better in the GSR tranny. If anyone is an expert on N/A H22A's its me. I have had a couple and I know what works and what doesnt. I may not say a lot here on IA but I am around. The SiR S-spec tranny I had in my last prelude was cool, except for the fact that it was impossible to find a replacement. If i needed a GSR tranny, I could make a few calls and have one TODAY. If I needed a LSD H22A tranny, I would have to make a few calls TO JAPAN since they never offered a LSD tranny in a USDM H22A powered car. Only the JDM models got LSD. The JDM 4g prelude SiR and the JDM 5g Prelude SiR S-Spec/ CL1 Accord Euro R. Get your facts right before you get on here and run your stupid fucking mouth.

Where exactly have my facts been wrong?

[allmotoronly]

Link?

Because seeing how the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear are identical and 1st and 2nd are extremely close, I doubt the tranmission alone would help almost half a second.


That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.


Considering an H22 swap with an LSD tranny from HMO would run $600-700 less than a B18 swap and you get 10-20 more horsepower with .4L more to work with, you'd be stupid to get the B18 swap.

for one thing, its called a h2b conversion (H22A with B series tranny), so yes the GSR tranny will bolt up. for another, we never tried to prove that the GSR was better because it is easier to get. Its better because it is geared better, has a better FD, costs less, and its stronger and will not drop second every time you dump the clutch on slicks like the H22A tranny's. LSD H22A tranny's are expensive and hard to get.

What have you had? I have had 5 or 6 different H22A engine/tranny combinations, so I know how hard parts are to get for them. JDM tranny's take forever to get, JDM engines take even longer.

Your advice has not helped me except to realize that you dont know shit about H-series engines/tranny's.

[allmotoronly]

whats with giving me neg. rep points? This is my thread. If I do not want your opinion, which I dont, that doesn't mean you should just give me neg. rep. whatever man. Your opinion is not needed here so I would appreciate it if you would leave my thread.

[H23]

for one thing, its called a h2b conversion (H22A with B series tranny), so yes the GSR tranny will bolt up. for another, we never tried to prove that the GSR was better because it is easier to get. Its better because it is geared better, has a better FD, costs less, and its stronger and will not drop second every time you dump the clutch on slicks like the H22A tranny's. LSD H22A tranny's are expensive and hard to get.


Considering an H22 swap with an LSD tranny from HMO would run $600-700 less than a B18 swap and you get 10-20 more horsepower with .4L more to work with, you'd be stupid to get the B18 swap.

Good lord.. do you research anything?


What have you had? I have had 5 or 6 different H22A engine/tranny combinations, so I know how hard parts are to get for them. JDM tranny's take forever to get, JDM engines take even longer.

STFU. You are full of shit. 5 different combos? Right. I bet an H22a4 was in one of them. :rolleyes:

Did I not tell you? I've built 20 different H22bs along with 10 more H22a's with M2B4's. Not one of them has failed and all of the H22a/M2B4 combos ran quicker times at the track. See how easy that is? Back it up with some proof. However, to be honest, I don't really care how many engines you've built.


Your advice has not helped me except to realize that you dont know shit about H-series engines/tranny's.

What, in the sense that I knew H22's are FRM and that an F20b would be better because it's iron? In the fact that I knew the H22 LSD tranny code was M2B4? I don't know where I've been proven wrong about H-series engines. I'm not the one comparing the H22a4 to other Honda motors.

Open deck rawks!!!

[allmotoronly]

read my original post. I explained the difference b/t the F20B and the H22A4...

I also have listed a COMPLETE tranny code list and gear ratio list for every H-series and most worth while F series tranny out there. READ THE SHIT BEFORE YOU TYPE.

I have had a JDM TYPE S swap, a JDM SiR S-Spec swap, A Euro R longblock with the SiR S-Spec tranny, a SiR S-Spec engine with the oem USDM tranny, a JDM H22A (OBD II) with a USDM tranny, and a H22A4 with a JDM LSD tranny.

[allmotoronly]

thats 6. by the way... theres no such thing as a H22B

[allmotoronly]

for the last time, leave my thread. Your info is useless repeats of what I or someone else has already said.

[H23]

read my original post. I explained the difference b/t the F20B and the H22A4...

I also have listed a COMPLETE tranny code list and gear ratio list for every H-series and most worth while F series tranny out there. READ THE SHIT BEFORE YOU TYPE.

How does this have anything to do with what I have posted.. you just say stuff to insult me when it really doesn't have anything to do with what I have said.

Bravo.

I posted about how the F20b is iron sleeved.. read your shit before you type!!!!


.........

H2b.. wtf ever.


I'm confused. When you're such an expert at building all motor setups, and you've built so many, why do you have to ask others? Why would you use the a4 as the example for the H22, being the only open deck, and weakest motor?

Why the hell is the B16B in there? More importantly, the K series. You have a 4k budget. Being as "experienced" as you are, that motor is nowhere near your price range.

Read YOUR shit before you type. Telling everyone you've had previous motor setups doesn't make you cool.

[allmotoronly]

READ MY ORIGINAL POST IN THIS THREAD. IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT THE F20B HAS IRON SLEEVES, NOT FRM. I DONT GIVE A SHIT IF YOU KNOW THE TRANNY CODE FOR THE LSD TRANNY. I KNOW EVERY TRANNY CODE THERE IS. man you can keep BSing all you want but everyone here will still know that you are full of shit and dont know what you are talking about. I have more important shit to do than argue with some 18 year old kid. 1987 huh... IM SURE you have had time to build 30 engines in the last two years that you could drive. get a life. I have shit to do tonight. its past your bed time anyway.

[H23]

will still know that you are full of shit

How? I'm not the one saying that I've built 6 previous H-series setups without any damn proof.


IM SURE you have had time to build 30 engines in the last two years that you could drive.

LOL.. you believed that? That was 100% sarcasm buddy.

[allmotoronly]

obviously I didnt believe it if i just called you out about it. Since you have only been a member here for a week or so... I guess you missed my proof. What do you want... pics, recipts? I have both. get a life kid.

[H23]

I have a life, actually. A girl, a nice car, good job.. I don't need to tell people to "get one" to make me feel better about myself.

At the end of the day, atleast I know I won't be asking people whether I should put a B16B or H22a4 into my Civic coupe.

[allmotoronly]

I have a life, actually. A girl, a nice car, good job.. I don't need to tell people to "get one" to make me feel better about myself.

At the end of the day, atleast I know I won't be asking people whether I should put a B16B or H22a4 into my Civic coupe.

whatever man... its just food for talk. I dont have a civic coupe, I have a CL type S, a Z71, and a vintage Trans Am. I had about $8000 extra laying around and was thinkng about starting something new. I wanted to find something I could modify and still get good mileage and reliability out of, so I said a civic coupe. I may not even get one. I have $8k to spend and I cant make up my mind on what to spend it on. If you actually have a life, then why are you wasting your time (as well as my time) posting useless shit on my thread that I do not care about. You gave your original opinion and I did not agree. deal with it. Its my thread. If you dont like it, go somewhere else.

[98vtec]

That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.


you are an idiot.

You talk about all this knowledge shit yet you have never heard of H2b :gay:

gtfo noob.

[98vtec]

he's just ignorant mike, just let him be.

[allmotoronly]

he's just ignorant mike, just let him be.

he's just a dumb kid.... look at his b-day. dec 1987...

[Wurm]

H23 get the fuck off IA take you ass back behind your shed and go about your goat fucking

[allmotoronly]

H23 get the fuck off IA take you ass back behind your shed and go about your goat fucking
+1 LOL

[Ludester]

allmotoronly so what you gonna do?

to Mike... I really don't tranny is better. For the record I have t2w4 tranny. Yes they are hard to come by but none the less I have one. Our war with b vs h in any category is not over ;)lol. I like the final drive of the gzzr but I feel it's a little too high. It does however compliment the gearings well.

H23.... he presents some good argument but at the same time is bashing Mike lol. all three of you allmotor/mike/h23 are funny lol.

8 grand allmotor? you can do a lot with that. All I can say is think about what you like. It seems you like the h series so I don't see a reason for you to change. The f20b is in the same class as the h's so it would be respectable and different at the same time. How many f20b you see in cars in ga? I've only seen one and it was pictures over the net (boosted Lude). Just something to think about.

[allmotoronly]

allmotoronly so what you gonna do?

to Mike... I really don't tranny is better. For the record I have t2w4 tranny. Yes they are hard to come by but none the less I have one. Our war with b vs h in any category is not over ;)lol. I like the final drive of the gzzr but I feel it's a little too high. It does however compliment the gearings well.

H23.... he presents some good argument but at the same time is bashing Mike lol. all three of you allmotor/mike/h23 are funny lol.

8 grand allmotor? you can do a lot with that. All I can say is think about what you like. It seems you like the h series so I don't see a reason for you to change. The f20b is in the same class as the h's so it would be respectable and different at the same time. How many f20b you see in cars in ga? I've only seen one and it was pictures over the net (boosted Lude). Just something to think about.

One of the main reasons I like the F20B is because it is rare. BOOSTED LUDE said his runs really good, as good as the H22A4 his car came with.
And as for H23, he has not backed up any of his arguements with facts like me and MR.2JZKIDD have done. He'll probably be back though.... bastard gave me neg rep points just because I proved him wrong. everybody hit me up with some pos rep points to make up for his ass... LOL

[H23]

God you're pathetic. I need a life? You're the one who cares about rep points on an internet forum.

Ok, so I haven't heard of the H2b. Why not? Because I wouldn't waste my time swapping a GSR tranny onto an H22.

Back up what facts? All I have been doing is making fun of you this entire time because you don't know anything about Honda motors. So you've swapped a JDM motor and transmission. So what? That doesn't mean anything to me.. I bet that H22a4 rawked.

That's like racking me for not knowing about swapping a redtop SR into a Lude. I don't know about it because its a fucking waste of time. So what?

[EmminoDaGreat]

why would they make a H2B conversion kit,wasting time,money, etc... if the B series tranny's werent better,have more aftermarket support, and abundant...

thats my :2cents:

[allmotoronly]

whatever... thats the best excuse you can come up with? The only reason I care about the rep points is because you gave me a neg for no fucking reason. How do I not know anything about honda motors? I have proved you wrong or previously said everything that you said. You're going to have to do better than that...

Go choke on some more cock

[allmotoronly]

why would they make a H2B conversion kit,wasting time,money, etc... if the B series tranny's werent better...

thats my :2cents:

exactly. remeber... theres no such thing as a gsr tranny bolted to a H22A according to this kid.

[Cliff]

b20/k20 whatever block with b18c1 head

[allmotoronly]

uh... the B18C1 head will not fit a K series block...

[Ludester]

b20/k20 whatever block with b18c1 head


:???: again :thinking: .... I think you might of miss typed that :thinking:

[Vteckidd]

why would they make a H2B conversion kit,wasting time,money, etc... if the B series tranny's werent better,have more aftermarket support, and abundant...

thats my :2cents:
DING we have a winner

[§treet_§peed]

DAMN AN SR20DETT?!

TWIN TURBO SR20?

HELL YA!

TWIN TURBO 4 CYL FOR THE WIN!Joo know how i do!!! :D :lmfao: :lmfao: i was hoping somebody would catch that shit...BWHAHAHAHA :lmfao: :D

[allmotoronly]

you think he would listen since everybody else is agreeing against him.

[98vtec]

God you're pathetic. I need a life? You're the one who cares about rep points on an internet forum.

Ok, so I haven't heard of the H2b. Why not? Because I wouldn't waste my time swapping a GSR tranny onto an H22.

Back up what facts? All I have been doing is making fun of you this entire time because you don't know anything about Honda motors. So you've swapped a JDM motor and transmission. So what? That doesn't mean anything to me.. I bet that H22a4 rawked.

That's like racking me for not knowing about swapping a redtop SR into a Lude. I don't know about it because its a fucking waste of time. So what?

teenagers:gay:

you just dont understand many things do you?

[allmotoronly]

LOL

[twinj]

I say K20, personal opinion i just like the motor. (I just want to see one all motor see what one makes all motor)

[Da_unknown]

^^ not a bad idea but its the most expensive swap for a honda right now... people have gone broke trying 2 do this shit...

[Black R]

.....just joining this late because it's starting to get good.

$8k is your budget including the car? Then we need to go back and think about your GOALS for the car... will it be NA or FI? Will it need to negotiate races that have turns or just in a straight line? Will you be sad if the idle surges or is quite lumpy?

If you haven't bought a car yet, then I'd suggest something cheap and throw a 2jz into it..... :P

If you're simply stuck on honda's and that's why this list is here, then obviously the kseries is out simply because you'll need quite a bit of extra $ to shoehorn that motor into any honda that's worth a damn ff... eg, ek, dc2, etc... not to mention the premium the Kseries is commanding on the market.

I don't know much about the H, but in the past it hasn't gained the aftermarket support that the bseries has. I'd probably go with the b18c in whatever form you can afford. BUT if you intend to build a motor, then I wouldn't necessarily buy a swap from hmo or anywhere else - I'd more than likely build a 2L B.

I'm a tranny afficionado, so I'd still recommend the b for that reason - or even an h22 with h2b adaptor plate and run a usdm itr tranny with 4.9 final. ;)

Here's some quick gearing breakdowns of the itr and some other variations which I have employed (and enjoyed):

http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm

http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-products/ats-gear-ratio-comparison.shtml


And I doubt it'd be much fun for an h22 to have my B18c5 tranny with ATS final drive and ats 1,2,3,4,5 gearset:

Gear Ratio Final MPH @ 9200 RPM @ 80 MPH

1 - 3.077 - 15.18 - 42.2 - 17423
2 - 2.105 - 10.35 - 62.0 - 11879
3 - 1.652 - 8.13 - 78.9 - 9334
4 - 1.308 - 6.46 - 99.3 - 7410
5 - 1.033 - 5.08 - 126.3 - 5827
Axle ratio - 4.929
Tire diameter - 23.44" (205/50/15)

[Black R]

the t2t4 is the accord sir tranny :rolleyes: ...

The gsr and the t2t4 tranny are amost identical. first longer on the accord. second longer on the gsr. Third longer on the accord. forth and fifth are identical. that's interesting... So even with a t2t4 having a stronger first and third you still say advantage gsr? ok....

If I was to build a n/a h I would use this tranny below. Long first quick second. Strong third and forth with a good fifth. But I'm not building a n/a h. At least not in the near future...
U2Q7
1: 3.285
2: 2.090
3: 1.481
4: 1.071
5: 0.870
final drive 4.266

I can see the gsr give chase in third but forth is still quick on the u2q7.

Good job mike but I beg to differ so for on YOUR opinion :taun: .

Type R gearing please?


GSR Tranny
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

BUT here's the killer.....

USDM ITR TRANNY:
1: 3.230
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4

OR

JDM ITR TRANNY:
1: 3.230
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.785


And of course, the most popular upgrade is a usdm itr tranny with 4.9 final drive:
1: 3.230
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.929


There are so many affordable bseries gearing options out there now... you can buy the jdm 4.7 final for pretty cheap... and many companies have a 4.9 and gearsets - many of them forged. Check out GearX, MFactory, SRR, or ATS, CUSCO, etc..... :thumbup:

[allmotoronly]

Just to update this, I just got a 97 GSR (Milano red, 80k miles, one owner, completely stock) and now I have about $2k-$2.5k left over. I have decided that this is definitely going to be my daily driver, and as for the gear ratio's, I like the GSR tranny. The USDM ITR tranny has a higher ratio 5th gear, which means gas mileage is out the window. I like the gear ratio's of the JDM ITR tranny, but the final drive is higher, and gas mileage would still be out the window. I drive about 30 miles on the highway every day at about 75-80 mph, and with a type r tranny, at 80 I would be turning like 5k rpm, which I do not want to do for 60 miles every day. anyways, I have decided to start with a Blox IM, Password power chamber, jdm 4-1 header, 2.5" omni test pipe, RS-R Exmag catback, cams, valve spring/retainers, type R intake valves, type R pistons and rods, and a type R ecu since I am eliminating the secondary intake runners on the intake manifold. I am looking for 200-210 whp. and more suggestions would be great.

[eViLMunkey]

K20 all the way