Anyone using/running Ethanol in their turbo cars?

[iloveboost]

I've been doing a lot of research about it this morning and it seems it's a great alternative to using race gas (expensive) and regular premium pump gas (increased chance of detonation, charcoal deposits). This is what I've gathered from reading up on it this morning.

E85 is a mixture of 85% Ethanol and 15% Unleaded Gasoline but yeilds an octane rating of ~110. This is one of the more widely available Ethanol mixtures available here.

While I've read from some people that Ethanol is super corrosive to rubber seals and fuel lines and recommend upgrading to stainless lines, anodized fittings, etc. I've also read many more other people saying it's completely harmless to their stock fuel systems and have been running it no problem.

Another amazing benefit from Ethanol is that its combustion temperature is about 200 degrees celcius lower.

Using Ethanol also eliminates charcoal deposits in your engine and actually cleans out the engine.

Ok, now for the 'downsides' because we all know that with the good, comes the bad. Ethanol has a lower density than regular unleaded pump gas which means lower gas mileage, and more Ethanol needed to create the same power. Your Ethanol consumption would be roughly 33% higher than regular pump gas just to give you a vague idea of how consumption would change. This means you'd need bigger injectors to push about 33% more fuel through them or tune your engine management system to accomidate the extra Ethanol needed.

Anyways, I'm mainly just curious if anyone has tried the Ethanol fuels in their cars and what their feedback is.

[josh green]

I dont think anyone is, ethanol isnt really that easy to get here on the east coast. We had thought about running it in spoolin's car but we cant get it. Another thing is going to be tuning. I dont know anyone that has a wideband that reads low enough. Stoich for ethanol is 9.6:1 I believe, so that would be the same as 14.7:1 gasoline. So to be running as "rich" as you are with gasoline you would need a wideband that reads in the 6's probably. Then straight methanol has a stoich of 6.4:1.

I am pretty sure that you dont have to change anything to the fuel system (seal wise) to run it. Ethanol is compatible with gasoline so mixing the 2 isnt a problem. Methanol on the other hand, fuel system has to be altered and it is NOT compatible with gasoline.

[iloveboost]

How do domestics/high HP cars tune straight Methanol is the stoich is at 6.4:1? The good old fashion way of pulling plugs?

Also, VP sells drums of Ethanol. Not sure on the price, but they offer it by the drum.

I guess I'll look up when/where they're planning on putting E85 stations in the metro Atlanta area.

Edit: Here's what a quick Google search pulled up for Ethanol filling stations in metro Atlanta.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ind_state.cgi?GA

[Bruce Leroy]

I was thinking about getting running e85 as a cheap alternative to race gas when I finally boost my car, but there is nowhere to get it. The benifits seem to outweigh the con's for a car thats not a daily.

[SPOOLIN]

the stoich point on e85 isnt 9.6:1, thats more equivalent to the 11.5:1 on reg gas on a turbo car. ]
methanol tuning is where you would want about 5.5-6.0:1 air fuel for a turbo car. Retarded amounts of fuel going on there.
Lots of west coast and mid west guys are using it in their sfwd cars. its good shit. Just not readily available here yet at the pumps. So why dont youcall and find out the price on it by the drum. I typically use 110 race gas. it should be cheaper for e85

[CHADbee]

iloveboost-car looks good man :goodjob:

[josh green]

found a site for alcoholic fuels. Gives you stoich, chemical formulas, boiling points,etc...

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/Pubs/farmmgt/05010.html

[d993s]

E85 is crap. Yes, it does have 110 octane, but it produces a lot less energy than 93 octane pump gas.
Still the best bet is Xylene (118), and Toluene (114).

I've been using my own secret formula for years, but most of you wouldn't dare try it.

[SPOOLIN]

xy and tol have to be lubricated, to much effort, and it basically comes out to the same price, you cant run it pure either and it also doesnt have that much octane. eth actually makes the most power at 7.0:1 a/f now that i started reading some...on a FI car that is.

[scttydb411]

i was going to do some tuning tests w/ e85, but the closest public filling station is 100+ miles away. there are a couple places here in atl that have it, but only for military or private corp consumption. there was fuel/energy supplier here that looked as though there was a limited access (w/ fuel card) station, but that turned out to be the georgia power private access station as well.

most dyno widebands don't read past 10:1 that i've come across, but my techedge will read all the way down to 0 if necessary. if anyone comes up w/ some e85, hit me up.

[DSMer]

Just get a good water injection kit. Spray a mixture with methanol if you want.

[SPOOLIN]

Just get a good water injection kit. Spray a mixture with methanol if you want.

sorry dont want to race a time bomb. Meth injection is nothing but a band-aid.

[B18c1Turboed]

I wouldnt run it. More to worry about.Just get Nos and get tuned for that,my personal expirence with MEth is we Blew a BRand new fresh built motor,u have too run a vacumme line to it and a T fitting craked causing car to lean out and detonate!!! I wouldnt risk using it!!

[Vteckidd]

like danny said, still not worth it.

93 is fine for daily driven, if you really want to run 700whp on the street, god help you. The only cars i think that should probably look into E85 would be 700-800whp supras that are street driven.

for us honda guys, we can achieve 500-550 on pump gas, and thats more than enough.

If your a drag race only car, then i could see testing different fuels to get power numbers. but then again, that takes a big budget. Something not everyone has.

i say keep it simple, run 118 an call it a day.

[DSMer]

sorry dont want to race a time bomb. Meth injection is nothing but a band-aid.
No that is untrue. The same could be said about anything.... nitrous, etc.
When used CORRECTLY with quality parts and torqued and adjusted to proper specs you shouldn't experienced broken or disconnection of parts. Like in every situation when pushing the limit, "its all in the tune". If your tune is dead on, you will experience great results.

[SPOOLIN]

No that is untrue. The same could be said about anything.... nitrous, etc.
When used CORRECTLY with quality parts and torqued and adjusted to proper specs you shouldn't experienced broken or disconnection of parts. Like in every situation when pushing the limit, "its all in the tune". If your tune is dead on, you will experience great results.


you keep tellin yourself that. 1000hp can be made on just c16 without some stupid meth injection. time bomb plain and simple.

[josh green]

I dont know how it is inducted, but what if your pump goes out or something? Its electrical, that shit can go out at any time. Hell you can run out, case in point. Charles with the blue evo nearly fucked up his car with that meth shit at import showdown. He ran out like mid track and was reading like 6 volts of knock.

Meth injection is the opposite of nitrous. If you run out, you are still running less timing and more fuel, unlike meth, you are running more timing and no more fuel or maybe a little more if you up boost pressure. With hondata and its nitrous control feature, there is another map that it will switch to for nitrous and I presume that it switches back to the original map when/if you were to run out of nitrous.