Best Boosted B-series?

[1/4Mile]

What's in you guys opinion the best all around best B series to boost in Stock form. I talking on all levels. Durability, best stock internals, drag, street, drivability. I have had a B16a2 turbo and now I just got a B18c1 and I kind of thinking about boost again. Just wondering if It's a good idea. What kind of boost can a stock gsr motor handle

[drmcivicsi]

What's in you guys opinion the best all around best B series to boost in Stock form. I talking on all levels. Durability, best stock internals, drag, street, drivability. I have had a B16a2 turbo and now I just got a B18c1 and I kind of thinking about boost again. Just wondering if It's a good idea. What kind of boost can a stock gsr motor handle


stock gsr wit a good tune i say around 10-12psi no more then that

[1/4Mile]

stock gsr wit a good tune i say around 10-12psi no more then that

But is it a better boosted engine than a B16

[v8killr]

you can run more then 10-12psi...lol. unless youre running a gt40r or something bigger. i ran 18psi on my stock gsr with a t3/t67 h.o. (not daily) but just to see how much boost it would hold...well, it held. i ran around 12-14psi daily on pump gas making 395whp @ 12psi. that was back in the day tho. ;)

stock gsr or b16...both great motors. i say 300whp on either of the 2 would be a GREAT daily driver that would tear the shit out of a lot of cars that are on the road. plus it would last a LONG time with a good conservative tune! :)

[iloveboost]

If I had to do it all over again, I would've went with a K series motor.

If I had to pick a B series, I'd do a GSR for their amazing flowing heads/top end.

[drmcivicsi]

you can run more then 10-12psi...lol. unless youre running a gt40r or something bigger. i ran 18psi on my stock gsr with a t3/t67 h.o. (not daily) but just to see how much boost it would hold...well, it held. i ran around 12-14psi daily on pump gas making 395whp @ 12psi. that was back in the day tho. ;)

stock gsr or b16...both great motors. i say 300whp on either of the 2 would be a GREAT daily driver that would tear the shit out of a lot of cars that are on the road. plus it would last a LONG time with a good conservative tune! :)

so u have a dyno for that 395whp @12psi cuz i love to see it

and for a daily driver if u want the motor to last a long time u cant run more then 12 or so psi

and i would go with the gsr motor there heads flow better

[Vteckidd]

you can run more then 10-12psi...lol. unless youre running a gt40r or something bigger. i ran 18psi on my stock gsr with a t3/t67 h.o. (not daily) but just to see how much boost it would hold...well, it held. i ran around 12-14psi daily on pump gas making 395whp @ 12psi. that was back in the day tho. ;)

stock gsr or b16...both great motors. i say 300whp on either of the 2 would be a GREAT daily driver that would tear the shit out of a lot of cars that are on the road. plus it would last a LONG time with a good conservative tune! :)
while i dont doubt your numbers, but RELIABLE, no way.

The best BOOST or all around motor is the GSR, HANDS DOWN. heres why:
Thicker ringlands that can handle 300whp
Great turbo motor since its a 1.8l
Decent compression (10:1)
Great NA candidate with bolts you can make 180whp.

B16s WILL NOT LAST past 250whp. their Ringlands are WEAK an THINNER, they break an crumble under boost. Anything past 230whp on a b16 on your on borrowed time.

We have gotten 270whp out of a bone stock GSR(stickys) and it popped a headgasket. I have seen GSRs make 300+whp on HT but anyone that thinks its reliable an feasible for every day, i hve a dyno here that will totally disagree with you.

For safety an reliability, a GSR can stay between 230-280whp. anything over that an your on borrowed time.

as far as the heads go, in a turbo application, it doesnt matter considering stock vtec heads (stock cams, springs, ret, valves, ports) make 450-630whp. I have dynoes to prove it.

An a CONSERVATIVE tune would not be anywhere near 300whp. thats a VERY aggressive tune. Id also like to see the 395whp@12psi on a STOCK GSR motor, that on race gas i assume? stock intake manifold? full race kit?

detonation will destroy cast pistons, thats why i dont think its wise to keep it at that boost level

Bottom line: depending on what turbo your running (i wouldnt use anything over a T3 super 60 on a STOCK INTERNALS MOTOR) 10-12psi is the max iuf you dont want it to grenade

[drmcivicsi]

while i dont doubt your numbers, but RELIABLE, no way.

The best BOOST or all around motor is the GSR, HANDS DOWN. heres why:
Thicker ringlands that can handle 300whp
Great turbo motor since its a 1.8l
Decent compression (10:1)
Great NA candidate with bolts you can make 180whp.

B16s WILL NOT LAST past 250whp. their Ringlands are WEAK an THINNER, they break an crumble under boost. Anything past 230whp on a b16 on your on borrowed time.

We have gotten 270whp out of a bone stock GSR(stickys) and it popped a headgasket. I have seen GSRs make 300+whp on HT but anyone that thinks its reliable an feasible for every day, i hve a dyno here that will totally disagree with you.

For safety an reliability, a GSR can stay between 230-280whp. anything over that an your on borrowed time.

as far as the heads go, in a turbo application, it doesnt matter considering stock vtec heads (stock cams, springs, ret, valves, ports) make 450-630whp. I have dynoes to prove it.

An a CONSERVATIVE tune would not be anywhere near 300whp. thats a VERY aggressive tune. Id also like to see the 395whp@12psi on a STOCK GSR motor, that on race gas i assume? stock intake manifold? full race kit?

detonation will destroy cast pistons, thats why i dont think its wise to keep it at that boost level

Bottom line: depending on what turbo your running (i wouldnt use anything over a T3 super 60 on a STOCK INTERNALS MOTOR) 10-12psi is the max iuf you dont want it to grenade


thank u mike :goodjob: :goodjob: now there is some good info!

[v8killr]

well the stock gsr lasted longer then my built ls/vtec build did. all that was doen when i did this dyno was this:

Bone STOCK gsr bottom end(freshened up...new rings/bearings and honed slightly)
B16 head w/ GSR cams
GSR tranny
AGAIN everything internal was bonestock!
i had a cheap ass knock off venom intake manifold off egay...lol
LoveFab SST turbo manifold
t3/t67 H.O. .82 a/r (full-race)
Full 3" turbo back exhaust
AEM EMS (i tuned it)
STOCK ignition
thats really about it... ;)

heres the dyno...PUMP GAS(93 oct in Boise ID) 12psi! its a little choppy because the line that comes off the plug wire was not reading right but here it is:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/Picture001.jpg

and heres the pics of the setup:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/iwNzIzMDMyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/iwNzIxNTk0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/iwNzIxNTk2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/iwNzE2NTU2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg

anyways, the stock engine was in my car for approx 5-6 months. NO problems at all. i had a dual stage boost controller so i did hit the button sometimes on the freeway to feel the turbo really kick in. i had it set on the lowest setting for 1st stage which was 12psi. 2nd stage was like 18-19 psi. have no idea what kind of power range that was but it was well over 450whp i would say.

but i tuned the shit out of this thing. in fact i was never really satisfied and was tuning everyday...lol. you get picky when you tune your own car. people who tune their own cars can tell you what i mean...its funny really.

[v8killr]

thank u mike :goodjob: :goodjob: now there is some good info!

you can run 300whp daily and it be reliable. like i said, i ran 395whp daily and beat the shit out of it at the track every weekend and it never gave up on me. daily driver...i drove it 120 miles a day to work and back when i was in the air force up there in idaho.

i dont know how you wouldnt consider this reliable? it def was for me anyways.

best run on shitty small ass slicks was 11.80 @ 122 mph. thats bouncing off the redline in 4th passing thru the end...lol

oh well, everyone has their own opinion. in MY OWN opinion...that was the cheapest and funest build i have ever done...lol. and the best thing about it was that i had 2 spare backup blocks and heads just sitting in the garage... ;)

[§treet_§peed]

JDM GSR FTW imo anyways...i'm gonna be pushin hella boost when i get mine and get MSp to build it for me within the next year....:D

[1/4Mile]

you can run 300whp daily and it be reliable. like i said, i ran 395whp daily and beat the shit out of it at the track every weekend and it never gave up on me. daily driver...i drove it 120 miles a day to work and back when i was in the air force up there in idaho.

i dont know how you wouldnt consider this reliable? it def was for me anyways.

best run on shitty small ass slicks was 11.80 @ 122 mph. thats bouncing off the redline in 4th passing thru the end...lol

oh well, everyone has their own opinion. in MY OWN opinion...that was the cheapest and funest build i have ever done...lol. and the best thing about it was that i had 2 spare backup blocks and heads just sitting in the garage... ;) Diddo, You made awesome power and it worked for you. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks

[v8killr]

no problem...i was just trying to say that 300whp is reliable. as long as you get the right tuner... :)

[Sammich]

thats what im thinking homie..get that C1 tuned

[93H22ACX]

300 is reliable....600 is reliable (if u have the $$ for 10+ gallons of race gas weekly :)). its not like you will be running on 300+whp all day long.

just depends on the tune and driving...

but B18C would be a better choice. bigger displacement so it'll spool the turbo faster and more torque for better daily driveability. if all things are equal more hp per boost also.

[Vteckidd]

300whp on a STOCK bottom end its not RELIABLE, sorry guys.

[1/4Mile]

300whp on a STOCK bottom end its not RELIABLE, sorry guys.

I believe Mike, as a general rule of thumb. I seems you guys may have had circumstances beyond what is normal. I feel if I boost agian it will be between the 240-280hp daily driven

[v8killr]

300whp on a STOCK bottom end its not RELIABLE, sorry guys.

i just proved that it was reliable. i was in Boise Idaho when i did that dyno. if i wouldve been here i wouldve been over 400whp. boise is a lot higher elevation then here. i know with forced induction cars theres not a DRASTIC change in power but i know i wouldve picked up at least 5whp being here. i really wish i wouldve kept the stock motor in longer and waited for it to blow because like i said earlier, it lasted WAY longer then my built block did. the reason the built block blew was because the shop that assembled it are fucking idiots!

anyways...i also said this dyno was daily driven on pump gas. when i went to the tracks i threw in 110 octane and thats all it had. and it was even a mixture. 93 and 110...half and half basically. and when i went to the track i hit the high boost button half way down the track which was 18-20psi. somewhere in there. it was over 450whp thats for sure.

MY POINT is that i dont know who it wasnt reliable. i loved that setup. easy to tune. drove it 120 miles each day(5 days a week) and beat the HELL out of it on the weekends. that thing was amazing. 300whp IN MY OPINON(along with the dyno above) should be reliable with the right tuner. i tuned my car by myself and thats the 1st time i had ever tuned a car in my life. it took approx a month to get it running the way i wanted it and then another month to get it on the dyno. 1st run it was like 382whp...next run 390whp...then last and final run was 395whp. all same boost levels. just added a little timing and leaned it out a little up top because it was running a little too rich. we srayed nitrous on the intercooler for the last run trying to get 400whp but the turbo charge pipe blew off and i said fuck it. 395whp on 12psi isnt bad for that badass turbo. i shouldve just kept that turbo...lol!

oh well...not trying to be an ass or anything...but i would run 300whp anyday with a b16 or a b18c as long as it is TUNED right. i would NOT hesitate 1 minute. :cheers:

[93H22ACX]

oh well...not trying to be an ass or anything...but i would run 300whp anyday with a b16 or a b18c as long as it is TUNED right. i would NOT hesitate 1 minute. :cheers:

i'd run what maximum hp i would get with 93 octane..but thats me also :)

joe...man i wanted that GT42R :(

[Vteckidd]

well the 6 b16s ive had RINGLANDS blow up ive had to rebuild beg to differ than 300whp is reliable.
you were lucky, thats all, to my customers, 300whp every day is NOT RELIABLE, the stock motors arent designed to handle that , sorry

i BUILD cars for customers that dont expect to rebuild their motors every month. While it might be ok for YOU to do this, an push the limits so aggresively, its not what we do. We push the limits, but within reason.

[boostedb16]

i am running 5 psi on a fmu and when i get my money up i'm going to mainstream for tuning, so what is a safe psi on a jdm b16, and how much hp do you think i have now and how much say on 8 psi.

[Vteckidd]

B16s, cant make over 250whp SAFELY. they can make whatever people can claim. but we have had alot of b16s that are boosted that we have REBUILT because after 5-6months of 12psi they pop the ringlands.

its a well known fact, the ringlands on the B16s an ITRs are MUCH THINNER AN WEAKER than the GSR motors. they dont last

[boostedb16]

B16s, cant make over 250whp SAFELY. they can make whatever people can claim. but we have had alot of b16s that are boosted that we have REBUILT because after 5-6months of 12psi they pop the ringlands.

its a well known fact, the ringlands on the B16s an ITRs are MUCH THINNER AN WEAKER than the GSR motors. they dont lastmy question was how many psi can i run and be a daily driver, and what do think about 8 psi.

[v8killr]

my question was how many psi can i run and be a daily driver, and what do think about 8 psi.

psi has nothing to do with what we are talking about. i was running one of the biggest t3 turbos on the market and was running 12psi daily and 18-20 at the tracks on the weekends. if you have a small turbo then you can run a lot more boost then i did.

everybody always asks how much psi can i run?? what turbo you have and how many psi you run is what you go off of.

anyways, like i said in the begining ... its personal preference and Bee was right when he said i wasnt always running 395whp daily. only when i romp on the gas pedal is when i hit boost. lol! and to tell you all the truth i was doing that all the way to work and back EVERYDAY. i really wish i kept that t3/t67 h.o. to this day. i couldve hit 700whp with it and also ran low 10's possibly high nines...but i had to dig deeper in my pockets and now i dont even have a running car yet...haha! oh well, the engine is FINALLY being shipped to me. should have it in my hands in about a week to two weeks. BEEN WASY TOO LONG WITHOUT MY CIVIC!!! but it will all be worth it in the end!

Bee, sorry about the turbo man. that thing was gone in a flash. you wouldve had to rubuild it anyways. this time im going with a gt42...but not the dual BB. we will see how well it spools. tests have been done with full-race's new topmount design and it should spool significantly BETTER! its the divided housing topmount and you have to run 2 44mm tial wastegates with this mani. this build keeps getting more expensive everyday... :crazy:

should have it running soon but back on topic...the b18c will be your better block but i have always loved the b16a heads. to me they flow better with the right cams and a good port and polish! and of course valvetrain. for a good safe reliable 300whp daily beater build a damn ls/vtec and throw some rods and pistons in that fucker with stock sleeves. go .020 over and youll be fine. but for me if im anything under 400whp...ill stick with a stock block and head. its CHEAPER if they do break. and i never even seen the day mine blew. i loved it. stock b18c block and stock b16 head with GSR cams. ran GREAT! i really wish i still had that engine. it would more then likely still be running.

im through ranting, ha! its ALL personal preference tho. if you want 250whp BOOSTED then just run a damn all motor k-series. it would be faster then the boosted b-series and WAY more reliable if thats all your looking for. ;)

[SPOOLIN]

If I had to do it all over again, I would've went with a K series motor.

If I had to pick a B series, I'd do a GSR for their amazing flowing heads/top end.


come on man. Mat keller went thru 4 motors in half of this years season before he quit clutchmasters. K series is not proven in the FI business yet in my humble opinion. Were talking about a huge money backing too.

[93H22ACX]

just my opinion... but,

if you are going to turbo your car and try make 2 or 3 times the amount of power from a stock motor, reliability will always be an issue. if you want reliability like OEM, then dont mod the engine especially turbocharging it.

like i said before, if its tuned right then i dont see any problems. we had a b16 turbo and nitrous daily driven 2 years ago and it drove fine...then a 100shot nitrous gsr hatch that ran for 2 seasons without any problems.

whatever the hp is that you make....it seems people keep thinking you will drive around with that much power ALL THE TIME... Yes, 300whp will be on tact when you Full-throttle it to redline but not everyone will be driving like that "DAILY". If you do, doesnt matter if its fully built or stock, it will go.



With the K-series.. IMO, i think its proven that it can make power. i mean over 850+whp, 10,500+rpm shifts, attending NHRA and NDRA events as well as running mid 9's or better at 160+mph consistanly......it will break a motor LOL... that was a pretty long run-on sentence.

Again its just my opinion.... :goodjob: :bump:

[v8killr]

just my opinion... but,

if you are going to turbo your car and try make 2 or 3 times the amount of power from a stock motor, reliability will always be an issue. if you want reliability like OEM, then dont mod the engine especially turbocharging it.

like i said before, if its tuned right then i dont see any problems. we had a b16 turbo and nitrous daily driven 2 years ago and it drove fine...then a 100shot nitrous gsr hatch that ran for 2 seasons without any problems.

whatever the hp is that you make....it seems people keep thinking you will drive around with that much power ALL THE TIME... Yes, 300whp will be on tact when you Full-throttle it to redline but not everyone will be driving like that "DAILY". If you do, doesnt matter if its fully built or stock, it will go.



With the K-series.. IMO, i think its proven that it can make power. i mean over 850+whp, 10,500+rpm shifts, attending NHRA and NDRA events as well as running mid 9's or better at 160+mph consistanly......it will break a motor LOL... that was a pretty long run-on sentence.

Again its just my opinion.... :goodjob: :bump:

its everyone personal opinion, thats what i was trying to say. IMO my boosted stock GSR ran great and i wish i still had the setup. with more power and money invested...things are going to break. thats just part of the game.

oh well...boosted is the way to go!! lol. again personal preference. :boobies:

[juan b]

mike i made 262hp on 11 psi on my b16 tuned by scotty.. daily driven, beat the shit out of it.. and on some weekends, track events i run 13 psi.. and it still runs great!

[Vteckidd]

i know, your the exception, the ringlands will fail, trust me, ive had enough of them come through here.

I think we are all saying the same thing, for me , as a shop, i wouldnt reccomend over 250whp on a B16, or over 270whp on a GSR.

as indivuduals, if your making more an want to push the limits of the motor, thats your call. you are the only one that has to live with your consequences if that makes sense.

Put it this way, a stock :
B16=135whp, making 250-300whp is DOUBLE that factory rating
GSR=145whp, making 270-300 is double the factory rating

thats alot of power on CAST pistons that if you detonate one time, it blows up

[juan b]

well i know the original poster is asking about a stock motor but since it kind of got thread jacked ill post this.. these are COMPLETLY STOCK bottom ends.. may have headgasket or head work, but STOCK pistons and rods..
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1478127

[KevinT707]

^^ I checked out the HondaTech link & wow, there are some high WHP stock bottom ends out there, I've never heard or seen anything w/ a stock bottom end make power like that?

What's the deal, the tuners in Ga suck or are those people lying ?

[boostedb16]

is 8 psi safe.

[Vteckidd]

^^ I checked out the HondaTech link & wow, there are some high WHP stock bottom ends out there, I've never heard or seen anything w/ a stock bottom end make power like that?

What's the deal, the tuners in Ga suck or are those people lying ?
be in this game long enough, an youll know what RELIABLE IS.

anyone can bring thier STOCK GSR or B16 motor up here, i will make 600whp out of it, 1 time, you sign my waiver.

hell ill make 450-500whp on it, 1 time, you sign the waiver.

kevin you can stand behind the car an catch the valves an rods that come flying out of the exhaust.

tuners in GA dont suck, but REALISTICALLY, those motors dont last, PERIOD.

kevin your B16 with a 50shot grenaded, blew a valve up, an it was only making 185whp. doesnt that tell you something?

[juan b]

^^ I checked out the HondaTech link & wow, there are some high WHP stock bottom ends out there, I've never heard or seen anything w/ a stock bottom end make power like that?

What's the deal, the tuners in Ga suck or are those people lying ?

i dont think the tuners in ga suck nor are the ppl lying.. i mean there are tuners out there that like to push the limits and make a name for themselves. but they also have a lot more experience with tuning cars..

im ready for scotty to push my motor a lil bit more.. 260 gets old after a while, 350 or bust.. if i blow, just time for bigger and better.. you gotta pay to play..

[Vteckidd]

but see Juan, you understand that 350whp on a stock b16 is pushing it, would you call that reliable?

youve been around long enough to know whats FEASIBLE and whats NOT.

[Shawn]

Mike, you say you have been in the game for awhile, then see what has been proven. Shawn(nextelbuddy) did 326 on a stock GSR, tuned by Ed, never any problems. Peter did 420 on a stock GSR, tuned by Ed, no problems.

Tuners can make a name for themselves by pushing the envelope. st00pid made over 600 on a stock H22(one-fab the scammer, but still). This car lasted alot of 1/4 mile passes.

Im not trying to talk smack, I know Scotty tunes a lot of cars(he does, not you). But tuners make a name for themselves but doing great things and pushing the envelope. If you wanna play it safe you'll never make it anywhere. I hate to say this, but i know scotty plays it very safe, all the cars i have seen him tune run rich as shit and the rears of the cars are black as hell. Im not talking shit, but if you wanna push the motor a little more, take it to Ed.

[Shawn]

^ these are just a few cases, lots of people push stock motors, but dont act like it isnt reliable because you guys havent done it

[Vteckidd]

ill totally disagree with you. I do not tune the cars myself, youre correct. However, it doesnt mean i dont know whats going on.

We have to tune them safe, an we have made LOTS of power on several cars that have pushed the envelope (spoolins, s2000, 2JZ, Daniels, etc)

Im NOT saying its not possible, but its not RELIABLE, PERIOD. if you think it is, then we can agree to disagree.

Scotty pushed the envelope all the time, i think 260whp on a b16 is a little aggressive. But thats me, ive seen 6 of them in the last 6 months that have popped an we have had to rebuild them. thats my PERSONAL experience.

As far as comparing ed to scotty, IMO, there is no comparison, ive seen JUNK that ed has tuned as well. $1300 to tune my GFs ITR that runs 12:1 an made 162whp. it was the worst graph i have ever seen. And she was ripped off blatantly. Talk about black smoke on the back of a bumper....

I dont mind Ed, he makes good power on ISPs cars an a few others i have seen. But i stand behind scotty, otherwose i wouldnt have him here tuning for us so maybe im biased. To say that ED is aggresive is ludicrous, hes aggressibve on ISPs cars, maybe, but the average joe, no way in hell, hes as conservative as they come.

we'll push your car as much as you want, but if it pops, dont blame the tuning, cause ill pull the a/f grahps up an theyll be flat and where they are supposed to be, its your motor that failed. not my problem.

cheers

[Shawn]

Well then, lets agree to disagree so we save ourselves the time :)

[Vteckidd]

A CAST PISTON will not hold up OVER TIME to 18-20psi, sorry. thats my opinion. If you disagree with it, then thats fine, and im not saying people CANT make XXX whp, but to classify it as RELIABLE whp, when your making double to triple to quadruple the oringal power out put an call it reliable, i find that funny

[Vteckidd]

Well then, lets agree to disagree so we save ourselves the time :)
agreed lol

[Vteckidd]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.

[BTEC]

I SAY THE GSR IS THE BEST B-SERIES TO BOOST. MORE TORQUE THAN THE B16 AND IT HAS VTEC (BETTER AIRFLOW) AND REVS HIGHER THAN THE LS B18A/B.

AND IT HAS OIL SQUIRTERS, LS MTR DOESNT. LOL!!!

[BTEC]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.
I TUNED ALOT OF HONDA, MY HONDA. LOL!!!

I MUST ADMITT SCOTTY HAS GOTTEN WAYYYYY BETTER FROM WHEN I FIRST WENT TURBO.

[RiceBoy]

I made 320 whp on mine..A completely stock GSR engine 4 yrs ago...Yes, 4 yrs ago when everyone didn't think stock block can be boosted and much less over 300..Here is a video from one of Commerce fast friday nites...The car lasted the whole year with weekly visits to Commerce..Still would have lasted even longer but I yank it out for the built block I was building..Sold it to a dude out west....that was a good block too...:(

http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/h/ghia/track.AVI
Click and save

[juan b]

i dont understand why people say its not reliable to make over 300 on a stock block.. there are too many ppl that have done it on honda-tech to not say its possible and reliable..

i guess your right we cant tell if they are lying but i know for a FACT peter (isp) made 425hp on a completly stock gsr motor,15 psi, drag raced every friday for over a year, (best run 11.20) then pulled the motor and sold it.. if thats not reliable i dont know what is. and drag racing is beating the shit out of the motor i would consider that motor completly reliable..

[93H22ACX]

what is the defination reliable? In racing there isnt such a thing as reliability....:D

Racing is breaking... breaking is making power.... and i got to go take a big ass shit from these 15 slim jims i just ate :ninja:

[BTEC]

what is the defination reliable? In racing there isnt such a thing as reliability....:D

Racing is breaking... breaking is making power.... and i got to go take a big ass shit from these 15 slim jims i just ate :ninja:
U WAS ON A ROLL BUT THAT LAST PART THAT CAME OUT OF BUMFUC EGYPT WAS UNNECC.

[juan b]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.

any other shop nation wide or in ga?

[Shawn]

The answer is simple, IT IS REALIABLE TO MAKE OVER 300 ON A STOCK MOTOR. / THREAD

[BTEC]

any other shop nation wide or in ga?
IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM.

[Vteckidd]

any other shop nation wide or in ga?
in GA

Ill agree to disagree with you guys. When it comes to reliable power, i stand by my statements.

if you , the customer, want to push it past that, if it makes the power, then thats fine, if it pops, ill be there holding the waiver :)

[juan b]

in GA

Ill agree to disagree with you guys. When it comes to reliable power, i stand by my statements.

if you , the customer, want to push it past that, if it makes the power, then thats fine, if it pops, ill be there holding the waiver :)


mike whats there to disagree about? whats your definition of reliable power? in the thread you have 2 people that made over 300 hp (trihn 320, peter 425) beat the shit out of the motors, drag raced them every friday and they both ran for over a year and they were pulled out in perfect condition..

[Shawn]

and nextelbuddy 326

[Vteckidd]

i just dont think you guys get where im coming from.

Im a BUSINESS, you guys are PRIVATE BUILDERS. on your PERSONAL car you cna do whatever you want, if it blows, thats your problem. but also, ISP an all of them (trihn, etc) have been around an KNOW what it takes , and if it pops, they can deal with it.

When i have guys that come in and dont really know what their motors are capable of, what the mileage is, the overall condition, then its hard for me to say "yeah it can hold 350whp EASY". especially since ive seen alot of them blow up past 300whp.

hell, we pushed a STOCK D16Y8 to 249whp, hows that for aggressive, or Armans GSR to 297whp stock motor.

we get aggressive when the customer asks for it, but like scotty said, its a double edged sword.

You cn be aggressive an get yourself a name for making power, but you can also get a name for "blowing" stuff up. Pick an choose wisely. Im comfrotable with our tuning procedures, and most people arent going to want to push their stock motors past 280whp.

For the OCCASIONAL customer that wants to, then , hey, as i said before, they sign a waiver

[SPOOLIN]

yeah those few people have made 425 and been successful BUT, the general consenses out there, meaning the majority of motors pushed that hard, EXPLODE WHEN THEY GO THAT HIGH.

[juan b]

i just dont think you guys get where im coming from.

Im a BUSINESS, you guys are PRIVATE BUILDERS. on your PERSONAL car you cna do whatever you want, if it blows, thats your problem. but also, ISP an all of them (trihn, etc) have been around an KNOW what it takes , and if it pops, they can deal with it.

When i have guys that come in and dont really know what their motors are capable of, what the mileage is, the overall condition, then its hard for me to say "yeah it can hold 350whp EASY". especially since ive seen alot of them blow up past 300whp.

why would you even let any customer that doesnt know shit about cars boost their motors if they are not in good condition, i believe that if the motor is fine, (ie. compression test, leak down test) hell boost it and make good/reliable numbers. make the most power out if it that you can. there is plenty of stock motors pushing over 300 hp and reliable. i wouldnt say that a motor is not reliable if it is pushing over 300 hp mike. YOU (mainstream) do not recomened you push the motor over 300 hp, because the owner wouldnt know how to drive it none the less maintain it..


we get aggressive when the customer asks for it, but like scotty said, its a double edged sword.

when scotty was tuning my car we hit 250 on 10 psi.. and he said he wanted to stop there. i asked to go up a little more and he hesitated to say yes. we went up to 11 psi and he wanted to stop.. hell i wanted to go to 15 psi on my stock b16.. and if it would of blown that would of sucked, but when you boost a motor you have to be prepared for bad stuff to happen. i beat the shit out of my car on 13 psi with a 11 psi tune.. not to smart i know but i dont think scotty wanted to push the car that much on the dyno. and i understand, hes earning his rep and a blown motor would make him look bad.. on the other hand 300 hp stock b16 would also make him look great. let me know when your ready scotty :)


You cn be aggressive an get yourself a name for making power, but you can also get a name for "blowing" stuff up. Pick an choose wisely. Im comfrotable with our tuning procedures, and most people arent going to want to push their stock motors past 280whp.

For the OCCASIONAL customer that wants to, then , hey, as i said before, they sign a waiver

lol the funny thing about this comment is the first time i got tuned, i signed a waiver, but the second i didnt.. what does the waiver actually say i never even read it.. but even if my motor would of blown the second time, it would of been totally retarded for anyone to want to sue you guys.. like i said before you have to expect the unexpected.. if it blows shitty, time for bigger and better. if you expect a perfect car that will last forever then your an idiot. imho i think most of the times that a motor blows is beacause the owner is an idiot. most of the times the owner dont know shit about cars and nothing about maintaining a boosted motor.

[boostedb16]

ok again what about 8 psi, i'm not looking for 300+ hp but 200-230, i'm not trying to blow it up because i have to drive mine everyday.

[1/4Mile]

we'll push your car as much as you want, but if it pops, dont blame the tuning, cause ill pull the a/f grahps up an theyll be flat and where they are supposed to be, its your motor that failed. not my problem.

cheers

Well said Mike, Scotty has tuned both my cousin's H23accord-t and Kid Battle(Srt-4) cars and all is well, and he'll be tuning H23accord-t new built H23 engine. Can't wait to see what happens. Good things, Good things:goodjob:

[1/4Mile]

ok again what about 8 psi, i'm not looking for 300+ hp but 200-230, i'm not trying to blow it up because i have to drive mine everyday. Dude give it a rest already, before I call the thread police:police: for you trying to jack my thread. And yes You'll be fine on 8psi(TUNED)

[boostedb16]

Dude give it a rest already, before I call the thread police:police: for you trying to jack my thread. And yes You'll be fine on 8psi(TUNED)thanks was that so hard to answer.

[v8killr]

thanks was that so hard to answer.

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol. 8psi is NOT anywhere close to the power i was making on a stock gsr(395whp pump gas)...little on peter...425whp.

anyways, its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. if you want to make the power that a N/A b-series can make on a boosted b-series then more power to you. for me, if i am going boosted then anything under 300whp wont be worth the money i spend on the turbo kit. i could just throw a 100shot direct port on and hit 250whp ... lmao!

:???: :???: :???: :crazy: :taun:

[scttydb411]

Im not trying to talk smack, I know Scotty tunes a lot of cars(he does, not you). But tuners make a name for themselves but doing great things and pushing the envelope. If you wanna play it safe you'll never make it anywhere. I hate to say this, but i know scotty plays it very safe, all the cars i have seen him tune run rich as shit and the rears of the cars are black as hell.

true, tuners can make a good name for themselves pushing the envelope, but also make a bad name for popping engines on the dyno. i push as far as the customer wants to go. if they ask my opinion i'll give it to them. a lot of time they say they want to daily drive and want it reliable and i make those recommendations and be conservative. however, if they say that's ok and want want to push it xx far because they heard on the internet someone made xx power i'll do it as long as they know that it might not end as happily for them.

what afr do i tune at? not as rich as your statement implies. how much more power does a n/a car make at 13.0 vs 14.0 wot? how about a boosted one at 11psi or less between 11.5 and 12.5? the reality is not very much. fuel is used as a thermal barrier to help prevent detonation and increase the reliablility of the motor in these instances. any boosted car will have a sooty bumper whether it's tuned at 13.0 (insane) or 11.5 (not that i tune all of them that rich).

aggressiveness comes from timing. you stop adding timing when the addition of timing stops increasing power or detonation occurs. luckily many honda motors have a nice buffer zone where power increases slow/stop before detonation begins, unless you are being "aggressive" on your afr and lose that buffer. race gas is the other magic bullet to help push it when you really push the boost up and cylinder pressures get extreme to not follow this rule.

when it's all said and done i have to answer to each and every customer i tune and also answer to shops that refer me those customers. i'm not going to take advantage of them for the chance to "make a name for myself". my goal is to give a good tune and service to each car and customer. if that makes me conservative then i'm guilty.

[scttydb411]

when scotty was tuning my car we hit 250 on 10 psi.. and he said he wanted to stop there. i asked to go up a little more and he hesitated to say yes. we went up to 11 psi and he wanted to stop.. hell i wanted to go to 15 psi on my stock b16.. and if it would of blown that would of sucked, but when you boost a motor you have to be prepared for bad stuff to happen. i beat the shit out of my car on 13 psi with a 11 psi tune.. not to smart i know but i dont think scotty wanted to push the car that much on the dyno. and i understand, hes earning his rep and a blown motor would make him look bad.. on the other hand 300 hp stock b16 would also make him look great. let me know when your ready scotty :)



lol the funny thing about this comment is the first time i got tuned, i signed a waiver, but the second i didnt.. what does the waiver actually say i never even read it.. but even if my motor would of blown the second time, it would of been totally retarded for anyone to want to sue you guys.. like i said before you have to expect the unexpected.. if it blows shitty, time for bigger and better. if you expect a perfect car that will last forever then your an idiot. imho i think most of the times that a motor blows is beacause the owner is an idiot. most of the times the owner dont know shit about cars and nothing about maintaining a boosted motor.

i'm ready whenever you are...don't forget you'll need to upgrade your map sensor from stock to 2.5bar or 3bar. this is also another reason i didn't want to push it farther because your map ends at 11.xx psi.

i'd be ecstatic to push a stock block/internals as far as everyone has been showing...it's up to the owner and you sound like you're up for it.

regarding the waiver the second time i think i had you re-initial the original one. i save every waiver for every car i tune and it can transfer anytime i tune, but i sometimes get a new one signed or the original intialed each time. in a nutshell the waiver states that we take every precaution and you are aware that your car will be tested under extreme conditions and damage can occur and that you are assuming those risks and not hold us liable. it's similar to bungee jumping or parachuting...you are aware that something may go wrong and SPLAT!

[scttydb411]

i hope the original posters question has been answered in the 4 pages of debate.

[boostedb16]

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol. 8psi is NOT anywhere close to the power i was making on a stock gsr(395whp pump gas)...little on peter...425whp.

anyways, its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. if you want to make the power that a N/A b-series can make on a boosted b-series then more power to you. for me, if i am going boosted then anything under 300whp wont be worth the money i spend on the turbo kit. i could just throw a 100shot direct port on and hit 250whp ... lmao!

:???: :???: :???: :crazy: :taun:idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

[juan b]

idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

no body knows that 8psi would make hp wise to many factors..

[1/4Mile]

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol.
:???: :???: :???: :crazy: :taun:

Dido!!

[1/4Mile]

i hope the original posters question has been answered in the 4 pages of debate.

Yes it has Scotty, but you've gotta admit it's pretty interesting

[scttydb411]

Yes it has Scotty, but you've gotta admit it's pretty interesting

agreed...interesting.

[§treet_§peed]

i'm so JDM i'm running 30 PSI on my Snapper...:D

[TypeRSi2o3]

H&M motorsports home of the daily drivin bone stock 300 whp @ 10 psi ls/vtec 1yr strong not even smokin yet holla

[93H22ACX]

idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

8-10psi is differnt on alot of things especially size of turbo and health of engine as well as manifold, dp, etc.

Here's an example of my hp at 10psi.
GT4088
10psi with 3" dp and 2.5" IC piping= 383whp
10psi with 4" dp and 3" IC piping = 410whp

T3/T4B Super V
15psi=283whp

T3/T4B Super V untuned @ 10psi = Weaker than stock (back in 1996 :screwy: )

see the difference? its not about what boost level but about hp output at that boost pressure.

[Turbogixxer]

B16s WILL NOT LAST past 250whp. their Ringlands are WEAK an THINNER, they break an crumble under boost. Anything past 230whp on a b16 on your on borrowed time.

We have gotten 270whp out of a bone stock GSR(stickys) and it popped a headgasket. I have seen GSRs make 300+whp on HT but anyone that thinks its reliable an feasible for every day, i hve a dyno here that will totally disagree with you.

For safety an reliability, a GSR can stay between 230-280whp. anything over that an your on borrowed time.


I am sorry, that is completely wrong. If you think those numbers are correct, it is a tuning issue or (rarely) a motor problem.

If it is done correctly, you will have no problems with either motor over 300whp.

[Vteckidd]

H&M motorsports home of the daily drivin bone stock 300 whp @ 10 psi ls/vtec 1yr strong not even smokin yet holla
yeah we tuned it lol

you cant tell me im wrong when i have PERSONAL experieince.

ISP has had succes with 300whp+ stock motors. We have had SOME successes and some failures, thats why i said its not RELIABLE.

if you really want to blame the tuning, i can post the a/f graphs along with the timing tables if you like for every car we have ever dynoed.

ITS NOT A TUNING ISSUE, its a RINGLAND issue on the B16s, its a CAST piston issue on the honda motors, period.

i have $100 ill bet anyone , bring your stock gsr up here an ill take it to 400wh[ on pump gas an if it lasts longer than 15 pulls, ill give you the money

[Turbogixxer]

you cant tell me im wrong when i have PERSONAL experieince.

I am sorry you have a ego, but you are wrong. Saying you have personal experience means nothing. Come on, all these people are doing this, but you have different experience?

The fact that I have done what you call "living on borrowed time" and never had a problem (within reason).


I really do not care about your a/f charts, because the odds are they are measured on the dyno wideband.

[Vteckidd]

I am sorry you have a ego, but you are wrong. Saying you have personal experience means nothing. Come on, all these people are doing this, but you have different experience?


Am i sposed to go by what HT says? im sorry but personal experience means alot then "i heard someone did this". what i meant was i cant tell you that YOUR wrong cause obviously there is a select few that have made over 300whp for awhile, an you cant tell me im wrong because i have seen cars make over that an blow up.

I dont know about you, but id rather go from personal experience than follow the crowd.



The fact that I have done what you call "living on borrowed time" and never had a problem (within reason).

that would be YOUR personal experience, you say its reliable, i think for a customer to ask me "is 300whp on a stock motor reliable" i would have to say no, from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE:

Lances b16 turbo 10psi popped ringlands the second he went above 12psi
Jerrys ITR (same ringlands as b16 pistons) popped 1 month after he boosted it at 10psi
Mikes 2000 civic si blew within 1 week of 8psi of boost (popped ringlands)
Kevins b16 exploded a valve with a 75 shot of nitrous
Seans 00 Civic si popped after 3 months, ringlands collapsed
Reggies B16 DA popped ringlands after 2 weeks of 10psi

now we have tuned H+Ms LSVTEC that made over 300whp stock ls block, armans made like 290ish stock gsr, Matts Gt28Rs made 280whp stock gsr, Stickys stock gsr =270whp.

I would say to keep it RELIABLE because i know the composition an heat ranges of a CAST PISTON, would be between 250-280whp, for RELIABILITY. anything over that i think your on borrowed time. 1 detonation on a CAST pistons at 12-18psi, and the motor is DONE. One bad batch of gas from BP, motor is toast.

Now you say its reliable. well when you run a shop, and have to stand behind your statements, you might think differently. I would not feel good telling someone "so an so says 350whp is reliable, so lets do that", then after 2 months it grenades cause i know there is a good possibility that it will. Id rather tell them 280whp is reliable, an to enjoy it until they want to really push it.

Just like guys say taht 10,000rpms is reliable in an NA car, its not, i dont give a fuck who does it. Johnzm revved his STOCK block b16 to 10,000rpms for over a year, doesnt mean ill say its reliable.

make sense?


I really do not care about your a/f charts, because the odds are they are measured on the dyno wideband.

LOL an what else would you like me to use? a uego? PLX? HONDATA? our dyno wideband is MUCH more accurate than any other wideband, sorry. Matter of fact, we tuned a KPRO car last week, an his wideband on hondata was 1.5 points OFF from our dyno on the LEAN side. so had we used his wideband, it would have probably gotten us in trouble. We replace our wideband every 3-6 months, i HIGHLY doubt regular customers replace it that often.

Tuning is not the problem, the factory motor is

[B18c1Turboed]

Lances b16 turbo 10psi popped ringlands the second he went above 12psi
Jerrys ITR (same ringlands as b16 pistons) popped 1 month after he boosted it at 10psi
Mikes 2000 civic si blew within 1 week of 8psi of boost (popped ringlands)
Kevins b16 exploded a valve with a 75 shot of nitrous
Seans 00 Civic si popped after 3 months, ringlands collapsed
Reggies B16 DA popped ringlands after 2 weeks of 10psi


Wow all those motors on such low boost, obviously something else is wrong.
I would like to add me into this mix KNowledge Performance tuned my 1st motor this is before there was a ISP crew and i dynoed 320 on 18lbs on a Gsr motor,I beat the Hell out of that motor also, so obviously theres another proplem know we have a totally diffrent tuner Kevin and he never blew my motor.
I understand you stand behing your tuner and you should but there is another proplem, MIke i have a quick question who own MSP? becasue you make it sound like you can fire scotty if you didnt like him, just wondering did you buy in too that shop?

[Vteckidd]

AS i said, i can post a/f graphs and timing tables of those cars if you want.

TUNING IS NOT THE PROBLEM. its the stock motor, sorry fellas, hate to burst your bubbles. an if you noticed, they were all B16 motors, you guys are saying GSRs make over 300whp. Show me a b16 that makes over 300whp an has lasted longer than 6 monmths an ill be impressed.

GSRs have thicker ringlands, they can last longer under boost, but i still wouldnt say they are reliable over 300whp, sorry

Scotty is a subcontractor that works for us. Same with Turbo Dave Fabrications. We have a good relationship with both contractors, and they arent going anywhere anytime soon.

As far as my role within MSPi, im shop manager,marketing, parts, PR. Charles is my boss, but as far as ownership, thats between me an our board of directors.

what does that have to do with anytinhg?

[B18c1Turboed]

As far as my role within MSPi, im shop manager,marketing, parts, PR. Charles is my boss, but as far as ownership, thats between me an our board of directors.

what does that have to do with anytinhg?

Oh i was just wondering becasue in a previous post you said,If i didnt like scotty tunning i would get rid of him.So i was just curious if you had it like that.that was it!!
But i never heard of a board of directors for a repair shop!!

[Turbogixxer]

Am i sposed to go by what HT says?

Nope, but the point I am making. I am not the only one that is doing this. So, lets look at this for a bit.

You are saying you can not go over 230whp on a stock B16 without have problems. But, yet, other people have no problems (inculding me and my personal experience). You are the only that is seeming to have the problem, not other people.


Am i sposed to go by what HT says? im sorry but personal experience means alot then "i heard someone did this". what i meant was i cant tell you that YOUR wrong cause obviously there is a select few that have made over 300whp for awhile, an you cant tell me im wrong because i have seen cars make over that an blow up.

The fact that I have done the same or better then what they are saying, I would say I am backed up with facts.


I dont know about you, but id rather go from personal experience than follow the crowd.

I learn from other peoples mistakes as well as my own. I do not have a ego to get in the way of being a open minded person :)


that would be YOUR personal experience, you say its reliable, i think for a customer to ask me "is 300whp on a stock motor reliable" i would have to say no, from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE:

Lances b16 turbo 10psi popped ringlands the second he went above 12psi
Jerrys ITR (same ringlands as b16 pistons) popped 1 month after he boosted it at 10psi
Mikes 2000 civic si blew within 1 week of 8psi of boost (popped ringlands)
Kevins b16 exploded a valve with a 75 shot of nitrous
Seans 00 Civic si popped after 3 months, ringlands collapsed
Reggies B16 DA popped ringlands after 2 weeks of 10psi

That means nothing, you know why? no specs on the set-up or WHP numbers.


1 detonation on a CAST pistons at 12-18psi, and the motor is DONE.

This statement right here shows what you know about tuning and turbocharging in general.

as others had said in the thread, psi has nothing to do with the detonation, octane of fuel, ablitly for a motor to hold pressure.



Now you say its reliable. well when you run a shop, and have to stand behind your statements, you might think differently. I would not feel good telling someone "so an so says 350whp is reliable, so lets do that", then after 2 months it grenades cause i know there is a good possibility that it will. Id rather tell them 280whp is reliable, an to enjoy it until they want to really push it.

Hahah, too funny. I know nothing about that or how to talk/treat a customer.


LOL an what else would you like me to use? a uego? PLX? HONDATA? our dyno wideband is MUCH more accurate than any other wideband, sorry. Matter of fact, we tuned a KPRO car last week, an his wideband on hondata was 1.5 points OFF from our dyno on the LEAN side. so had we used his wideband, it would have probably gotten us in trouble. We replace our wideband every 3-6 months, i HIGHLY doubt regular customers replace it that often.

Hondata has a wideband? I hope you are not using the stock k-series one.

Better question, why would you use a customers wideband? I use mine and mine only. :) Every dyno I have ever been on, has had a different reading. Even if I go to the same dyno, it is off.

[Vteckidd]

Nope, but the point I am making. I am not the only one that is doing this. So, lets look at this for a bit.

You are saying you can not go over 230whp on a stock B16 without have problems. But, yet, other people have no problems (inculding me and my personal experience). You are the only that is seeming to have the problem, not other people.


Wrong, i said i wouldnt ADVISE going over 230whp on a STOCK BLOCK b16, weak ringlands tend to crumble. I wouldnt advise it, if Ed tuned it, Evans tuned it, or god himself, i wouldnt advise it.



The fact that I have done the same or better then what they are saying, I would say I am backed up with facts.
I learn from other peoples mistakes as well as my own. I do not have a ego to get in the way of being a open minded person :)
no ego here sir, just facts.


That means nothing, you know why? no specs on the set-up or WHP numbers.

Basic T3 turbos for the most part on all those. 220-240whp setups, some having as little as 10k miles (ITR) others having over 100k.


This statement right here shows what you know about tuning and turbocharging in general.

Please , enlighten me. Detonation on a cast piston will destroy it, if you think you can having a TUNED car on the dyno saves tyou from detonation, you have alot to learn likewise. If someone is running their stock b16 or gsr block at 12-18psi and they detonate on it, its GOING to 1) blow a hole in a piston 2) break the ringland off. thats FACTS, not speculation.



as others had said in the thread, psi has nothing to do with the detonation, octane of fuel, ablitly for a motor to hold pressure.

Psi has NOTHING to do with deontation? hmmm, ever heard of CYLINDER TEMPS? EGTS? A boosted motor is MORE likely to detonate than an NA car, becuse of the added heat for the FORCED INDUCTION. are you kidding me? are we back to tuning 101? if you think detonation cant happen, go drive on one of our nice hot humid 100degree 99% humidity GA afternoons. If youd like me to get into load properties as a correlation to detonation i can do that too. when yor pushing a factory motor so far already, it takes less to blow it up.



Hahah, too funny. I know nothing about that or how to talk/treat a customer.

i dont know who you are so.....




Hondata has a wideband? I hope you are not using the stock k-series one.

Better question, why would you use a customers wideband? I use mine and mine only. :) Every dyno I have ever been on, has had a different reading. Even if I go to the same dyno, it is off.

ok you just said that

I really do not care about your a/f charts, because the odds are they are measured on the dyno wideband.

I didnt say we USED his wideband, i said we noticed his wideband was off compared to ours. meaning, if he had used his wideband to tune on the street , he prob would have gotten in trouble.

[Vteckidd]

bottom line is i personally wouldnt reccomend it.

best B series to boost, GSR/ thread

[Turbogixxer]

Wrong, i said i wouldnt ADVISE going over 230whp on a STOCK BLOCK b16, weak ringlands tend to crumble. I wouldnt advise it, if Ed tuned it, Evans tuned it, or god himself, i wouldnt advise it.


Honsetly, that is cool. If you feel your tuner and you are not capible of doing something, that is great.

But, do not act like you are a god in the subject and try to push people down that are giving real world data.

Before you go: "I said advise, not we could not do it", the fact is, you are not comfortable with going over a certain WHP (not psi). The fact that I have tuned cars way over your "limit" and over your "6 months" rule speaks volumes. This is not from a website, this is real world.



no ego here sir, just facts.

hmm..


you cant tell me im wrong when i have PERSONAL experieince.

Watch out F1, this guy has personal experience.





Basic T3 turbos for the most part on all those. 220-240whp setups, some having as little as 10k miles (ITR) others having over 100k.

Doesn't that throw your "do not over 230whp" theory off? I mean, 220 is less then 230, right? If you state, do not go over 230, then 230 is fine, right?


Please , enlighten me. Detonation on a cast piston will destroy it, if you think you can having a TUNED car on the dyno saves tyou from detonation, you have alot to learn likewise. If someone is running their stock b16 or gsr block at 12-18psi and they detonate on it, its GOING to 1) blow a hole in a piston 2) break the ringland off. thats FACTS, not speculation.

Come on, You can not be that dumb.

You are basicly stating, 12-18 psi in the same in every turbo. Shit, I better call the stock gsr I tuned at 20 psi. I hope the last 9 months he has not been driving around with a hole in his piston or a cracked ringland.


Psi has NOTHING to do with deontation? hmmm, ever heard of CYLINDER TEMPS? EGTS? A boosted motor is MORE likely to detonate than an NA car, becuse of the added heat for the FORCED INDUCTION. are you kidding me? are we back to tuning 101? if you think detonation cant happen, go drive on one of our nice hot humid 100degree 99% humidity GA afternoons. If youd like me to get into load properties as a correlation to detonation i can do that too. when yor pushing a factory motor so far already, it takes less to blow it up.

You are correct in a cerain part. But you are confusing PSI of a turbo with cylinder pressure. PSi of a turbo is independant of the size of the turbo, so you can not say that 12-18 psi of turbo pressure has the same cylinder pressure (read: heat) for all turbos.

Maybe you should learn about EFI. See, most systems see a difference in ATM, manifold pressure and/or air flow, air density, coolant tempersure and can make a change (not saying it is great, because it is user input) (BTW, fuel and timing too). If it is tuned correctly, I do not see a problem, do you?


All to most of the cars I tune are in that same weather you are in if not worse.

[Vteckidd]

your dealing with absolutions, not using common sense.

its kool, id love to sit here and ebate more, but i have a business to run, an more cars to tune, or try to tune LOL

cheers

[Shawn]

I would love to see this topic on HT so big name tuners could flame the shit out of you.

[Vteckidd]

I notice a trend, everyone agrees except for vteckidd, hmmm. I would love to see this topic on HT so big name tuners could flame the shit out of you. Oh well, i guess GA's scene is that shitty that people are gonna listen to you and your "only 230 hp is safe" claim. :sigh:
:lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

I notice a trend, everyone agrees except for vteckidd, hmmm. I would love to see this topic on HT so big name tuners could flame the shit out of you. Oh well, i guess GA's scene is that shitty that people are gonna listen to you and your "only 230 hp is safe" claim. :sigh:
an then again i suppose you think this is a good looking graph without detonation:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/Picture001.jpg

[Vteckidd]

its ok an its over with.

i stil lstand behind my statements, and you guys are entitled to your opinions.

Best motor to boost, GSR

/thread

[B18c1Turboed]

Mike thats a bitch move to make to lock a thread becasue you cant handle a debate. Quit being a puss and locking threads if they dont go your way.or if people with sense talk back too you!!!

[1/4Mile]

its ok an its over with.



Best motor to boost, GSR

/thread

Mike, You know what? I don't how much better you could have said it:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

Mike thats a bitch move to make to lock a thread becasue you cant handle a debate. Quit being a puss and locking threads if they dont go your way.or if people with sense talk back too you!!!
no the topic is over, no one is saying anything new.

discussion or debate is over.

locked AGAIN

[B18c1Turboed]

no the topic is over, no one is saying anything new.

discussion or debate is over.

locked AGAIN


Thats the stupidest thing you could say, you know how much garbage is on IA and you lock the one topic that people other than you have knowledge in, that a childish move, topic debate it dont matter people are posting and you go lock it becasue we dont agree with you!!

[Vteckidd]

no people started making personal attacks, thats when i locked it.

when it goes from a discussion to personal an shop attacks, the thread is over. I never said anything bad about shops or tuners, your camp did.

But regardless, its all the same shit tahts being posted, nothing NEW is being said. so there is no need to banter on

call it all you want, it still stays locked

[B18c1Turboed]

no people started making personal attacks, thats when i locked it.

when it goes from a discussion to personal an shop attacks, the thread is over.

call it all you want, it still stays locked

Personal attaqck your the one dragging all these shops and Ed into this, and posting your dyno and giving your shop experiences. Cant blame people for debating something that they know more about than you!! Im sorry i personally know kenny and he has tuned alot of car so obviously he knows what he talking about,STIll a BITCH MOVE!!


As much BULLSHIT IS on IA,u lock a topic that people actually ahve common sense on!! Im sorry your not turbo god.You dont know all the in and outs of it how many turbo cars ahve you personally built or TUNED!!

[B18c1Turboed]

AND THE TOPIC WAS BEST BOOSTED B SERIES MOTOR?

It didnt say is a B16 good too boost!!

[Vteckidd]

fine ill leave it unlocked, flame away.

but in the end, ITS MY OPINION vs YOUR OPINION, neither one is wrong.

i really have devoted too much time to this thread arguing over shit that doesnt matter and it wont change anyones opinions.

Think im wrong, or stupid, thats fine, but get in line, cause my waiting list is really long (for the shop that is)

:cheers:

Love mike, official laast post in this thread

[Shawn]

I say we post this on HT and see what other tuners think, because we only have 2 tuners posting in this thread, Turbogixxer and scttydb411. I personally would trust turbogixxer over scttydb411 cause it seems he is about making real power and not 230hp haha.

oh and BTW, the last thing I would do is go to your shop for anything, nor would I reccommend it to anyone :)

[RiceBoy]

Well here is a GSR block....:D ..Tuned by ED senf from Balanced Performance just 2 wks ago.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/44/44439/folders/44982/1963554dyno.jpg

[Shawn]

Take that dyno down, its impossible, if Scotty hasnt broke 700hp yet than it is impossible!

[RiceBoy]

Yeah by Ed Senf the tuning god himself....:D After only 8 runs...

[B18c1Turboed]

Its funny that we can all make good Hp out of a STOCk gsr motor but when people say i dont recommend it, why not? Obviously it can handle it,i mean look at 3 cars on this topic in GA alone have made GREAT numbers on stock GSr motors!!

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks

[Shawn]

Keep bragging, im sure it helps your business. You can list what, like 7 or 8 cars your proud of? haha good job, we garage tuners can list more than that.

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[B18c1Turboed]

630whp LS NON VTEC
628whp LSVTEC STOCK HEAD
500whp LSVTEC INTEGRA
440whp 1.8l INTEGRA
278whp STOCK GSR
;)


How many of those are still running? Reason i ask is MIke said he wouldnt push a car that hard!

And isnt there a diffrence from building a car and tuning it only? Reason i ask is becasue Spoolin spun a bearing how amny time 3 or 4?

[SPOOLIN]

you guys are trashing my inbox. :D

[Shawn]

Danny is making good points, too bad Mike doesnt wanna post again. Oh well, we all are gonna keep thinking the way we think, i just feel bad for the guys who talk to Mike and think 230hp is acceptable for a turbo setup

[B18c1Turboed]

REMEMBER GUYS NO SHOP BASHING

Asking questions are fine tough!!:goodjob:

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[B18c1Turboed]

Danny is making good points, too bad Mike doesnt wanna post again. Oh well, we all are gonna keep thinking the way we think, i just feel bad for the guys who talk to Mike and think 230hp is acceptable for a turbo setup

I dont know whty eighter we have proven the point over and over and showed dyno sheets of people making well over 320hp and 4 of them in GA!

[BTEC]

Take that dyno down, its impossible, if Scotty hasnt broke 700hp yet than it is impossible!
THATS WAS A WEAK COMMENT.

YAWL ARGUE TOO DAMN MUCH IN THIS FORUM AND THATS Y I HARDLEY EVER COMMENT IN HERE. YAWL ARE A BUNCH OF WHINNY BITCHIZ SUCKING ON OTHER PPL DICKS. GO TUNE SOEMTHING URSELF AND BRAG ABOUT IT ASSHOLE. ED IS A GREAT GUY IVE KNOW HIM FOR YEARS, SCOTTY IS COOL AS HELL AND HAS COME A LONG WAY TUNNING CARS AND HASNT BEEN DOING IT BUT FOR LIKE A LITTLE OVER A YEAR I THINK. BOTH GREAT GUYS AND IF I LET NE BODY TUNE MY CAR THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY 2 TO EVER TOUCH MY SHIT.


GIVE UR OPINION AND Y U THINK SADI MTR IS BETTER AND LEAVE IT AT THAT. IF A SHOP MADE MORE POWER THEN COOL. JUST STFU AFTER A WHILE. GET ON MY DAMN NERVES.

[Sammich]

LIRL what happened this thread was suppose to be locked

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[BTEC]

How many of those are still running? Reason i ask is MIke said he wouldnt push a car that hard!

And isnt there a diffrence from building a car and tuning it only? Reason i ask is becasue Spoolin spun a bearing how amny time 3 or 4?
SPOOLIN BUILT HIS OWN MTR. SCOTTY TUNED IT

MY CAR IS STILL RUNNING AND I REACHED 9500 RPM'S SEVERAL TIMES. LOL!!!!

[BTEC]

LIRL what happened this thread was suppose to be locked
IN B4 RELOCK OR DELETE. LOL!!!!!!!

[Shawn]

THATS WAS A WEAK COMMENT.

YAWL ARGUE TOO DAMN MUCH IN THIS FORUM AND THATS Y I HARDLEY EVER COMMENT IN HERE. YAWL ARE A BUNCH OF WHINNY BITCHIZ SUCKING ON OTHER PPL DICKS. GO TUNE SOEMTHING URSELF AND BRAG ABOUT IT ASSHOLE. ED IS A GREAT GUY IVE KNOW HIM FOR YEARS, SCOTTY IS COOL AS HELL AND HAS COME A LONG WAY TUNNING CARS AND HASNT BEEN DOING IT BUT FOR LIKE A LITTLE OVER A YEAR I THINK. BOTH GREAT GUYS AND IF I LET NE BODY TUNE MY CAR THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY 2 TO EVER TOUCH MY SHIT.


GIVE UR OPINION AND Y U THINK SADI MTR IS BETTER AND LEAVE IT AT THAT. IF A SHOP MADE MORE POWER THEN COOL. JUST STFU AFTER A WHILE. GET ON MY DAMN NERVES.

I have yet to see you make a valid point. Point of you post? The point of mine is 230hp is sad for a turbo setup! That was acceptable maybe in the late 90's. But given advances in tuning and equipment, people can reliably push the envelope and hit 300+, without problems. Im done posting, Ive proved my point, hopefully the people reading will realize the point me and others are trying to prove.

[Sammich]

right right lol

[SPOOLIN]

lol you cant bring up my rod bearing shit. MY CRANK WAS OUT OF ROUND MOTHER FUCKER, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIT. IT ALL STARTED FROM OVER REVVING AT THE FALL IMPORT SHOWDOWN 2005!! Something stupid i overlooked. I build my own motors, thats prolly more than i can say for most other people.

[B18c1Turboed]

lol you cant bring up my rod bearing shit. MY CRANK WAS OUT OF ROUND MOTHER FUCKER, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIT.

Easy killer, i was just asking about how many where runing and had problems.

Oh and i could have sworn mike told me you used your old bearings thats why you spun one..OH WELL!!!

[SPOOLIN]

no.

[B16a2 Civic]

IN B4 RELOCK OR DELETE. LOL!!!!!!!

this will stay open as long as no shop bashing or severe personal attacks are made.
:)
but i am partial to a certain b series motor LOL.

[RiceBoy]

Yeah NO SHOP Bashing...However I am entitled to promote Ed Senf can't I? :D

[B18c1Turboed]

WHy can all these cars make over 300 ON STOCK BLOCKS!!


B18C, LS/VTEC:
1. crx=si 605hp, 364tq stock B18C1 TO4R at 26psi Crome-pro with traktek 110
2. stOOpid tuned 523whp on 22psi and a 50 on C16. All stock B18C1 (11.00 @ 133)
3. C squared motorsports 518whp 324tq 20lbs on C16 and PT67
4. fuccarlos 508whp 361tq @17psi on c-16 (10.40@136 1.5 60')
5. marco B18C1/B16 head 480whp @ 23/24 psi on C16 tuned by jason hunt
6. GodFather of Boost 470 on c16 @20-21
7. ngogsr 462.52 fwhp 320.87 tq 23psi c 16
8. cyph3r 454whp 317tq sc61
9. carchitect 424whp 271tq Stock B18C5. Precision SC63
10. philipwight 400whp 260tq on stock gsr on pump gas (11.3@131)


B16:
1. Randys 630whp and 390tq on 118. (10.97@131)
2. redline130 393 whp 261 ftlbs, C16 (11.65 @ 125mph)
3. marques4130 350 whp sunoco 112 best (11.8 @ 119 @ 4200 ft)
4. 98gsrTEG 344whp@1 bar on pump gas
5. Black SI 344whp on a stock b16 @14psi
6. 99B16Si 333whp/221wtq SAE at 13psi SC61
7. integlspwr2k 330whp on a stock head stock block
8. Bryson 329whp 210tq 13psi SC61 on 91
9. G"UNIT 329whp 207tq @12psi on a sc61 on 93 octane
10. s2kkk (Jeff Evans tuned) 325whp/215tq LS:
1. Rico 340whp 270tq 1.7 bar on a stock LS
2. JDMH22HATCH 340/270 15lbs stock LS
3. adseguy 328whp 269trq 16PSI on 93 octane. T3/T4e .63/.60 57 trim
4. Jeff Evans tuned 320whp/290tq
5. M.A.R.C 315whp/280wtq @ 15psi on 93oct
6. efgarage 308whp 287wtq 15psi 91 oct,tuned with neptune
7. gpomp 308 whp, 255 wtq 94 octane
8. ramrod 307 whp, 247tq Crome pro
9. civicflnum1 303.4whp and 269.4wtq @ 14psi t3/t04e 60 trim 93 octane
10. sean 302whp/280tq @ 16psi sc61 on sunoco 94 octane (11.8@116)

[B16a2 Civic]

yeah, aint nothin wrong with promoting good work

[BTEC]

I have yet to see you make a valid point. Point of you post? The point of mine is 230hp is sad for a turbo setup! That was acceptable maybe in the late 90's. But given advances in tuning and equipment, people can reliably push the envelope and hit 300+, without problems. Im done posting, Ive proved my point, hopefully the people reading will realize the point me and others are trying to prove.
THE POINT OF MY POST WAS TO TELL YOU STFU. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

BUT SERIOUSLY, I DNT UNDERSTAND Y YAWL BITCH AT EACHOTHER FOR HRS AND GO TOTALLY OFF SUBJECT AND START GETTING PERSONAL BC SOMEBODY DNT TAKE UR WRD FOR SOMETHING OR HAVENT HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCES THAT U HAVE. DO U THINK JUST BC U DOG THEM OUT THEYLL BE LIKE OK UR RIGHT?

230 WHP IS NOT BAD FOR A SIMPLE TURBO SETUP. THE THING THAT WOULD MAKE IT SAD IS IF U SPEND 8 GRAND AND ONLY GET TO 230 WHP.

[BTEC]

WHy can all these cars make over 300 ON STOCK BLOCKS!!


B18C, LS/VTEC:
1. crx=si 605hp, 364tq stock B18C1 TO4R at 26psi Crome-pro with traktek 110
2. stOOpid tuned 523whp on 22psi and a 50 on C16. All stock B18C1 (11.00 @ 133)
3. C squared motorsports 518whp 324tq 20lbs on C16 and PT67
4. fuccarlos 508whp 361tq @17psi on c-16 (10.40@136 1.5 60')
5. marco B18C1/B16 head 480whp @ 23/24 psi on C16 tuned by jason hunt
6. GodFather of Boost 470 on c16 @20-21
7. ngogsr 462.52 fwhp 320.87 tq 23psi c 16
8. cyph3r 454whp 317tq sc61
9. carchitect 424whp 271tq Stock B18C5. Precision SC63
10. philipwight 400whp 260tq on stock gsr on pump gas (11.3@131)


B16:
1. Randys 630whp and 390tq on 118. (10.97@131)
2. redline130 393 whp 261 ftlbs, C16 (11.65 @ 125mph)
3. marques4130 350 whp sunoco 112 best (11.8 @ 119 @ 4200 ft)
4. 98gsrTEG 344whp@1 bar on pump gas
5. Black SI 344whp on a stock b16 @14psi
6. 99B16Si 333whp/221wtq SAE at 13psi SC61
7. integlspwr2k 330whp on a stock head stock block
8. Bryson 329whp 210tq 13psi SC61 on 91
9. G"UNIT 329whp 207tq @12psi on a sc61 on 93 octane
10. s2kkk (Jeff Evans tuned) 325whp/215tq LS:
1. Rico 340whp 270tq 1.7 bar on a stock LS
2. JDMH22HATCH 340/270 15lbs stock LS
3. adseguy 328whp 269trq 16PSI on 93 octane. T3/T4e .63/.60 57 trim
4. Jeff Evans tuned 320whp/290tq
5. M.A.R.C 315whp/280wtq @ 15psi on 93oct
6. efgarage 308whp 287wtq 15psi 91 oct,tuned with neptune
7. gpomp 308 whp, 255 wtq 94 octane
8. ramrod 307 whp, 247tq Crome pro
9. civicflnum1 303.4whp and 269.4wtq @ 14psi t3/t04e 60 trim 93 octane
10. sean 302whp/280tq @ 16psi sc61 on sunoco 94 octane (11.8@116)
G-UNIT RACING? OH SHIT!!!

[B16a2 Civic]

50 cent in tha house....

[B18c1Turboed]

BUT SERIOUSLY, I DNT UNDERSTAND Y YAWL BITCH AT EACHOTHER FOR HRS AND GO TOTALLY OFF SUBJECT AND START GETTING PERSONAL BC SOMEBODY DNT TAKE UR WRD FOR SOMETHING OR HAVENT HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCES THAT U HAVE. DO U THINK JUST BC U DOG THEM OUT THEYLL BE LIKE OK UR RIGHT?

NOpe, the point is we have done it and proven it!! So obviously we know what we talking about also, i can see from a shop stand point not wanting to blow a motor up, but from are point its possible to make over 300hp on a stock block. Needless to say we dont own any shops and are names arent on the line, BUt in that same hand we know what we talking about when someone says you cant do it it wont be reliable,who cares!! Honestly going turbo aint reliable also so do you recommend it to a cuistomer or not. I know a certain person had a bad ass b16 fully bult and tuned blew it up becasue of bad gas.So thoose are chances you take!!

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[B18c1Turboed]

cant go by everything you read


Thats the diffrence!!! WE DONT!! we do it, Peter has made better than any one on a stock block, so has Trinh, so has Shawn so have I.
So we dont go by what we read we go by what we know and have expirenced!!

I know trinh was the 1st in GA with over 300hp when everyone said it cant be done, this was 6 years ago man

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[BTEC]

NOpe, the point is we have done it and proven it!! So obviously we know what we talking about also, i can see from a shop stand point not wanting to blow a motor up, but from are point its possible to make over 300hp on a stock block. Needless to say we dont own any shops and are names arent on the line, BUt in that same hand we know what we talking about when someone says you cant do it it wont be reliable,who cares!! Honestly going turbo aint reliable also so do you recommend it to a cuistomer or not. I know a certain person had a bad ass b16 fully bult and tuned blew it up becasue of bad gas.So thoose are chances you take!!
NO DOUBT. I DIDNT SEE MIKE SAY U CANT MAKE THAT KINDA POWER, HE SAID HE DNT RECCOMEND IT.

WHEN U SAY STOCK BLOCK DO U MEAN RODS AND PISTONS ARE STOCK OR STOCK SLEEVES. I WOULD THINK SLEEVES BUT I JUST WAN TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.

[B18c1Turboed]

And Charles no offense too you but thats why we are the home of

the
1st 300HP car in GA
1st 400HP car in Ga
1st 500HP car in Ga
1st 600HP car in GA
1st 700hp car in Ga
1st 800HP car in Ga

Because we dont read about it,we DO IT!!

[Formally...]

I don't care. Thanks.

[B18c1Turboed]

and if you want to bring up tuning thats fine, Ed doesnt make a car any more reliable than scotty. You guys said YOURSELF that scotty tunes conservative and Ed tunes aggressive, so our CONSERVATIVE motors blow up, but your AGGRESIVE motors last so much longer? see how stupid that sounds.


I belive what MIke said is Ed tunes are ISP cars Aggresive!! What is considered aggresive? you see trinhs chart and his A/F how is that aggresive?

So just because we can put down high HP we must be tuning are cars aggresive?

[Shawn]

Advancements in what?

theres only 2 things that matter in tuning, A/F ratio an timing. everything else is dependant on how the motor was built or how healthy it is.



equipment, was hondata around back then? or sorry, your guys favorite, crome, uberdata? NOPE but we have had ADVANCEMENTS and there are more tuning programs, and you dont have to run a full standalone on a honda just to make 500hp and you dont have to run a FMU for a 200hp setup. Nice try, but back then you were prolly tuning your carb on your Chevy

[B18c1Turboed]

I dont mind Ed, he makes good power on ISPs cars an a few others i have seen. But i stand behind scotty, otherwose i wouldnt have him here tuning for us so maybe im biased. To say that ED is aggresive is ludicrous, hes aggressibve on ISPs cars, maybe, but the average joe, no way in hell, hes as conservative as they come.




Just so you can read what MIke said

I think when it comes to Tuning ,some people on here are biased.I understand he works or contracts for you guys but that dont make someone else less of a tuner.

Especially since Ed has been tunning cars for 15 years and attentds all the classes to get better at tuning everyday!!

[Shawn]

And Charles no offense too you but thats why we are the home of

the
1st 300HP car in GA
1st 400HP car in Ga
1st 500HP car in Ga
1st 600HP car in GA
1st 700hp car in Ga
1st 800HP car in Ga

Because we dont read about it,we DO IT!!

Quoted for the truth! haha

[BTEC]

Just so you can read what MIke said

I think when it comes to Tuning ,some people on here are biased.I understand he works or contracts for you guys but that dont make someone else less of a tuner.

Especially since Ed has been tunning cars for 15 years and attentds all the classes to get better at tuning everyday!!
ED IS THE MAN AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS IN MY BOOK SINCE ENGINEERED PERFORMANCE. WITH THAT KINDA EXPERIENCE U SHOULD EXPECT MORE HORSEPOWER AND BETTER PERFORMANCE THAN U WOULD FROM A ROOKIE.

[SPOOLIN]

And Charles no offense too you but thats why we are the home of

the
1st 300HP car in GA
1st 400HP car in Ga
1st 500HP car in Ga
1st 600HP car in GA
1st 700hp car in Ga
1st 800HP car in Ga

Because we dont read about it,we DO IT!!

no thats false. danny isnt the home of shit, he uses WE worse than anyone.

danny doesnt own shit for automotive business. He doesnt tune cars. HE barely races cars. BENCH RACER and a WE TALKER for ISP.



WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE

WE THE PEOPLE MOTHER FUCKER.

[KevinT707]

Cant we just all be friends, & give each other hugs? Geez :)

[boostedb16]

so everybody is saying dont boost a b16 and dont go to mainstream, i have heard from about 3 or 4 people the mainstream is a good place, and i have never heard of the ed guy, is chrome pro a bad program because i heard its as good as hondata. i have a b16 on 5 psi with a fmu and want to go to 8 psi and i was going to let scotty tune it with chrome pro. so is that a bad idea or not.

[BTEC]

so everybody is saying dont boost a b16 and dont go to mainstream, i have heard from about 3 or 4 people the mainstream is a good place, and i have never heard of the ed guy, is chrome pro a bad program because i heard its as good as hondata. i have a b16 on 5 psi with a fmu and want to go to 8 psi and i was going to let scotty tune it with chrome pro. so is that a bad idea or not.
ID DO IT. I USED AN HKS HEADGASKET ON MY STOCK B16 TO DROP THE COMPRESSION DWN BC I DIDNT WANT TO RISK BREAKING MY RING LANDS BC I HAVE ALSO WATCHED BOOSTED B16 BLOW UP. BUT YEAH ID DO IT.

[boostedb16]

well its already boosted and how much does cost to have a headgasket changed.

[99SI]

Damn this thread got jacked all to shit. I think everybody missed the boat on the comments Mike made. He didn't say that the high horsepower numbers are unattainable on a stock GSR or B16, because we've all seen the posts on Honda Tech and what ISP has done. No one is putting into doubt that Ed at balanced is a good tuner, but you better not be in a hurry and be willing to wait a few months to get in to see him. From Mike's perspective dealing with someone like the fellow who started this thread, when the average person that wants to daily drive a boosted Honda they do not need to be making 300+ whp. It's irrelevant what someone maxed out a GSR or B16 at. The thread originator was asking about a safe, reliable daily driver setup. If he wants to have a higher boost map for track days when he is going to be running race gas then I'm sure Scotty would be glad to make him a race gas tune. But for regular everyday driving, a safe tune at 250-270whp on a stock GSR is the most the average person needs. Everybody has seen the dumbass people that blame a shop because they fucked up their car after a big build. It's not the shops fault, as Danny has said repeatedly, reliability is not the name of the game when it comes to turbo or any other high performance. Just like my motor, I ran the shit out of it taking a stock b16 bottom end (arp rod bolts) with upgraded valvetrain and cams to 9500 everyday and I have a 110 mile commute. When it broke, I called Mike to build me another motor, not bitch because my motor locked up. Most people do not see it that way, they want something that is going to last indefinately and it's not realistic.

[SPOOLIN]

WE Myself,peter,Bee and alfonso! Im sorry your crew conist of you and josh! That can only afford to race 1 car.I mean come on he has to sell his car just too buy a truck to take YOU too the races.Wow Big team!! We have 4 trucks 4 cars and 4 trailers!! So YEA WE!!!

HAHA!~ you right i dont count on peoples car to breck down, I own a insurance company that is rapidly growing and making me BANK!!!

Bench Racer wow you have done alot of racing this year what 1 race and broke right after you qualify!! WOW!!
Why did you sit most of this year out? Building a new car?
Gee im pass that stage now,maybe ill invite you to my new vacation house sometime!!

ANd if you havent realized ISP is a racing team and belive it or not im part of that team.I may not be racing this year but i have been for the last 4 years, AT the start of the year i stated i wasnt racing this year and now im a bench racer!!
Im a bench racer that is at EVERY race helping to work on Peter,Bees and Alfonso car.Yea real bench racer here!!

What?, afford to build 1 car. If josh wanted to build a race car he would do it. but i know what you are doing danny, just tapping the bee hive to watch all of the bees get all mad. I can do the same thing. Im the one that races. As a matter of fact, if you look around at 90% of race teams, THEY ARE ONE FUCKING CAR YOU IDIOT. Josh could have built a bad ass car not to long ago but just went ahead and got rid of everything, well he does have a few things laying around if anyone is interested. josh has a truck that we use all the time, the red one im sure youve seen it that also pulls alot better then your tiny ranger might i add. He wants to sell his civic to get yet another truck that is bad ass and will pull all 4 of your trucks together in a nice little line. I decided to change my whole direction for my car so that i would have something to carry me for a good few years. I didnt see that in an EG hatch.

The NDRA, People of IA, racers in the sport, and the sport in general, DO NOT GIVE ONE FUCK ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS OR YOUR "VACATION" HOUSE in the swiss alps. I dont recall ever seeing you registered as part of the ISP team at a race in the last 2 years that you actually raced in for "real".

1 race is more than any that you can say for yourself in this years events and races. That was the second race of the year might i add, the only reason i wasnt at the first is because it was 3,000 miles away, yeah real smart to go to that one if i could. You are a bench racer if you are going to sit and do the shit like you do on here AND NOT RACE, and give excuses about why your arent that make no sense.

If you are such a big bad team like you say you are. Lets see you at the next NDRA races in the qualifying listings, any one of you because i know peters car is running and from the looks of it, alfonsos car is running. I dont know about Bees, but thats 2 out of 3-4 atleast. Theres maryland and ohio left, which are both ATLEAST 900 miles away because i know if my car was ready enough and running good, my ass would be there because thats what racing is as a team, whether you are 2 men, or 10.

now little bees, get mad run around and make your counterstatements plz.

[§treet_§peed]

a b16 pops under alot of strees while a GSR holds strong...

[josh green]

I SPRINKLE DIAMONDS ON EVERYTHING I EAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. ITS THE MOST BALLING SHIT EVA
2. IT MAKES MY DOOKIE TWINKLE.



IM RICH BIATCH!

[anothaRRR]

If you are such a big bad team like you say you are. Lets see you at the next NDRA races in the qualifying listings, any one of you because i know peters car is running and from the looks of it, alfonsos car is running. I dont know about Bees, but thats 2 out of 3-4 atleast. Theres maryland and ohio left, which are both ATLEAST 900 miles away because i know if my car was ready enough and running good, my ass would be there because thats what racing is as a team, whether you are 2 men, or 10.
And then what, just prove to you that we are running at races? WTF for, we never claimed being a "big bad team" like your stating it...

[B18c1Turboed]

[QUOTE=SPOOLIN]What?, afford to build 1 car. If josh wanted to build a race car he would do it. but i know what you are doing danny, just tapping the bee hive to watch all of the bees get all mad. I can do the same thing. Im the one that races. As a matter of fact, if you look around at 90% of race teams, THEY ARE ONE FUCKING CAR YOU IDIOT. Josh could have built a bad ass car not to long ago but just went ahead and got rid of everything, well he does have a few things laying around if anyone is interested. josh has a truck that we use all the time, the red one im sure youve seen it that also pulls alot better then your tiny ranger might i add. He wants to sell his civic to get yet another truck that is bad ass and will pull all 4 of your trucks together in a nice little line. I decided to change my whole direction for my car so that i would have something to carry me for a good few years. I didnt see that in an EG hatch.
My little Tiny ranger gets 420 miles per tank!! So yea ill sacrifice a big truck for a little one,shoot i can afford alot more gas becasue it dont take as much.And im sorry a F350 aint going to pull four trucks!! that was a redneck comment right there,is it going to pull your mobile home around too!! haha


I dont recall ever seeing you registered as part of the ISP team at a race in the last 2 years that you actually raced in for "real".

I dont recall any of us register like that eighter.We register under are names, i have never heared them say coming to the Line matt keller from Team INline PRo come on man, are you going to register as GSR team!!! hahaha!!!


1 race is more than any that you can say for yourself in this years events and races. That was the second race of the year might i add, the only reason i wasnt at the first is because it was 3,000 miles away, yeah real smart to go to that one if i could. You are a bench racer if you are going to sit and do the shit like you do on here AND NOT RACE, and give excuses about why your arent that make no sense.

HAH Sure man, I know that was the 2nd race of the year, i said you only have raced 1 event this whole year and at that you only made 1 pass and where back on trailor, and im a bench racer becase i didnt attened the 1 race you raced at when i have been going to races for the last 4 years.


If you are such a big bad team like you say you are. Lets see you at the next NDRA races in the qualifying listings, any one of you because i know peters car is running and from the looks of it, alfonsos car is running. I dont know about Bees, but thats 2 out of 3-4 atleast. Theres maryland and ohio left, which are both ATLEAST 900 miles away because i know if my car was ready enough and running good, my ass would be there because thats what racing is as a team, whether you are 2 men, or 10.

See you think you know us so good, we do plan on going to MAryland!! We wont be going to Ohio for 2 reasons
1 its too far to go for nothing,when points are over!!
2 Importshowdown is the same weekend,we rather support a local event and help make it grow!

[boostedb16]

well its already boosted and how much does cost to have a headgasket changed.any idea.

[SPOOLIN]

sorry, i have a house going up.

sorry, its not an f350.

sorry 4 is not spelled FOR

sorry i made 4 passes not 1

sorry, but let me get this strait. You are going to go to a race that is 600 miles away in maryland. But you are gonna sit and bitch about points bullshit about ohio THAT IS THE SAME GOD DAMN DISTANCE AWAY. Are you kidding me?

Points, pfft, who gives a fuck. If you are in this for money, and just that....you have a serious issues.

[B18c1Turboed]

sorry, but let me get this strait. You are going to go to a race that is 600 miles away in maryland. But you are gonna sit and bitch about points bullshit about ohio THAT IS THE SAME GOD DAMN DISTANCE AWAY. Are you kidding me?


u know for the 1 million time im not racing this year, also NO where not going to OHio where staying in GA to support Showdown race.Why bother driving 14 hours when we can drive 2 hours and compete against everyone in GA?

And No where not in it for the money where in it for the love of the sport!!! If it was the money we would have the nice renegade truck outside and attending all the races,But we do it for the love of speed and setting limits higher!!
What you really think that little gt4067 you bought from MAt is going to help you? And that PWR water to air/intercooler is going to flow so good for you? I swear one day you will learn your leason about buying used parts!!!

[SPOOLIN]

This is Josh,
Its rather nice living in a $330,000 mobile home. My truck with 1000Ft. lbs can pull my house, our race car and your whole teams trucks, cars and trailers all to the track. We should all meet up and me just haul you guys down. The you can talk about how much dick you suck and how we are gay, and redknecks, and are slow and ugly and all that jazz. Then you can tattle on Bee when he moves his leg over your part of the seat cusion. Hell I will even put in a DVD so that you can shut the fuck up. I have cordless Head phones and everything!!!!... OH BOY!

You may be Bank rolling with your insurance company but I kow you didnt type up your policy because you sure as fuck cannot spell and have no sentece structure. But like any employee of the quicky mart can see, only stupid people are breading. You sir get the darwin award.

Now I am going back to fucking my chicken so they will lay larger eggs andI need new tires for the house. I think Wal-mart has a sale on good years, maybe they will last longer.


I SPRINKLE DIAMONDS IN EVERYTHING I OWN!

1. BECAUSE ITS THE MOST BALLING SHIT EVER.
2. IT MAKES MY DOOKIE TWINKLE!

IM RICH BIATCH!

[SPOOLIN]

u know for the 1 million time im not racing this year, also NO where not going to OHio where staying in GA to support Showdown race.Why bother driving 14 hours when we can drive 2 hours and compete against everyone in GA?

And No where not in it for the money where in it for the love of the sport!!! If it was the money we would have the nice renegade truck outside and attending all the races,But we do it for the love of speed and setting limits higher!!
What you really think that little gt4067 you bought from MAt is going to help you? And that PWR water to air/intercooler is going to flow so good for you? I swear one day you will learn your leason about buying used parts!!!
If you loved the sport you would make the drive, your a fucking cum bubble man.

-Josh




Glad to see that you drug me into this. Now why dont you go read the neiborhood rule book for your 1 bizzillion$$ house. I dont think they allow farm animals.

I SPRINKLE DIAMONDS IN EVERYTHING I EAT!

1.ITS THE MOST BALLING SHIT EVER.
2. IT MAKES MY DOOKIE TWINKLE!

[B18c1Turboed]

This is Josh,
Its rather nice living in a $330,000 mobile home.

Im sorry i forgot you lived home with mommy and daddy!!!
Hey will they buy you another 12k 1993 civic.PLEASSSSSSSSE!!

[Vteckidd]

ok this thread is trash any one that wants to talk about boosted b16s or b18s speak up if not stfu.:slap:
im assuming you have a str8 forward setup IE T3 turbo, T25 something of that nature?

I would get DSM 450cc injectors, resistor box and see what it makes at 10psi, leave it there, itll be fun.

We can tune it with Chrome with launch control, timing, everything you need. We have made up to 630whp with Chrome so it can support whatever you want out of your car.

If you want to run hondata, Contact Balanced Performance

[boostedb16]

no i talked to scott and he said to sell my hondata and he would tune it for 380.00 including chrome pro but what do you think hp on 8 or 10 psi would be with a t3 intercooled. so yea i am coming to mainstream to get tuned, i agree with what you say about double or triple the hp being unreliable on stock internals and i am not looking for 300 or 400 hp just about 230 or 250 but im on a fmu now so any tuning will be better than that.

[Vteckidd]

with 450cc injectors and a resistor box an chrome you sould be around 210-230whp depending on how healthy the motor is at 8psi.

with Chrome you can ditch the FMU. if your running an FMU heres what you need to buy:

1) 450cc injectors DSM $60-80
2) OBD0 CRX/CIVIC Injector Resistor Box $20
3) Walbro 255lbh Fuel Pump
4) IS your car OBD2? if it is, you need a conversion harness to convert it to OBD1

thats it, an your good for 300whp with those injectors, not that i reccomend that el oh el

in most cases you can sell the hondata an PAY for your tuning with us an get the same results if not better.

[EmminoDaGreat]

glad to see the bitching has settled down for a minute....

[B18c1Turboed]

no i talked to scott and he said to sell my hondata and he would tune it for 380.00 including chrome pro but what do you think hp on 8 or 10 psi would be with a t3 intercooled. so yea i am coming to mainstream to get tuned, i agree with what you say about double or triple the hp being unreliable on stock internals and i am not looking for 300 or 400 hp just about 230 or 250 but im on a fmu now so any tuning will be better than that.


Thats the dumbest thing i ever read, why would u sell the hondata to accomadate a tuner? It would be cheaper for you to go get tuned on the hondata and be done with it whjy change EMS
I have seen this going on alot a certain tuner cant tune it or dont know how so he talks customers into selling there EMS and getting Uberdata or Chrome to me thats plain stupid!!

[1/4Mile]

glad to see the bitching has settled down for a minute....

Dido. Now Quiet down, the Babies are sleep. LOL!!! Mike Glad to see you back on with yet agian useful and informative things to keep car running. Also I'm glad you unlocked the thread cuz I was going to tell Jamie(Built H23accord-T) while he was up there yesterday to tell you that wasn't cool, but I know why you did it, off of principle.

[Vteckidd]

Thats the dumbest thing i ever read, why would u sell the hondata to accomadate a tuner? It would be cheaper for you to go get tuned on the hondata and be done with it whjy change EMS
I have seen this going on alot a certain tuner cant tune it or dont know how so he talks customers into selling there EMS and getting Uberdata or Chrome to me thats plain stupid!!

Well lets look at price break down. Assuming both cars are OBD2, need an OBD1 ecu
Tuning with HONDATA
Taken from: http://hondata.com/s200.html
Hondata S200 $295
Boost Option $200
Launch Control $50
Datalogging $50
Chip ECU $75 takes 4-5 days
Used P28 $100
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$150 (rough estimate, most cars with mild setups only take that long. I assuming Balanced charges $150 form what i have heard, i MAY BE WRONG)

TOTAL:$1145.00

Tuning with CHROMEPRO
Chipped P28,P30,P72 ECU with basemap from Scotty $180
Boost option FREE
Launch Control FREE
Datalogging $20
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$140 (MSPi rate)
TOTAL:$550.00

Roughly half the price for the exact same results. We dont make people sell their EMS systems to run ours, nor do we bad mouth the other systems. What we tell them is "we are not authorized to tune Hondata S200, we can do S300. IF you have S200 you need to contact Balanced Performance or Knowledge Performance, otherwise youll have to switch to one of our systems if you want to tune with us".

9/10 times they switch because its more cost effective, people have seen the results from Chrome and Uberdata , and know that its just as competitive and user friendly and capable as Hondata. And 9/10 times they can sell their Hondata for $300 with the boost option and put that money towards tuning, so yes its easier on the wallet for some people.

its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. They both do the EXACT SAME THING. THe only time i would reccomend Hondata is if someone had nitrous. They have OUTSTANDING Nitrous controls which Chrome lacks. Other than that, unless your going for 800-900whp, id stick with Chrome. Hondata is proven beyond the 700+whp territory, Chrome is not, but not many people roll through here shooting for that much power.

[Vteckidd]

and just to clarify, im not trying to start anything at all, so cool down before you pop off at me danny.

im not bashing hondata, just offering another point of view, lets avoid the shit that happend yesterday please

[RiceBoy]

I belive what MIke said is Ed tunes are ISP cars Aggresive!! What is considered aggresive? you see trinhs chart and his A/F how is that aggresive?

So just because we can put down high HP we must be tuning are cars aggresive?


Hmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....:D

[93H22ACX]

Hmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....:D

what ever man...you're DAD RACING

DRILLING ASIAN DENTISTRY :D


BTW...spoolin...we never said we were a "BIG BAD TEAM." I dont know if we're a "RACE TEAM" but friends that always helps each other out.

In drag racing there are egos and some shit talking but damn..this thread is funny.

[boostedb16]

well i already had hondata s200 w/boost option and chipped ecu and conversion harness, and after all of that it was still going to cost me $800.00 so yea i sold my hondata for $400.00 and i am going with chrome. so figure up mikes cost plus mine and then you tell me i was dumb for going a differant direction.

[BTEC]

Hmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....:D
NICE TO MEET U ST. MARLO GHETTO TUNING of DAD RACING. IM BTEC of PSA TUNING. I DNT HAVEA RACE TEAM YET. :(

[Vteckidd]

well i already had hondata s200 w/boost option and chipped ecu and conversion harness, and after all of that it was still going to cost me $800.00 so yea i sold my hondata for $400.00 and i am going with chrome. so figure up mikes cost plus mine and then you tell me i was dumb for going a differant direction.
and had you stayed with hondata, im sure you would still have been very satisfied, you would just have to spend alot more money.

see you soon

[93H22ACX]

NICE TO MEET U ST. MARLO GHETTO TUNING of DAD RACING. IM BTEC of PSA TUNING. I DNT HAVEA RACE TEAM YET. :(


BTEC = Bee's Turbo Engineering Crew :eek: LOL

[B18c1Turboed]

and just to clarify, im not trying to start anything at all, so cool down before you pop off at me danny.

im not bashing hondata, just offering another point of view, lets avoid the shit that happend yesterday please

NAw no biggie, im just stating he already has the system then why change?

Yes Chrome is cheaper than hondata no question there,but why sell a good system just so one tuner can tune it. Keep in mind scvotty ids the only person who tunes chrome or uberdata he moves everyone in ATL is fucked!!

[BTEC]

BTEC = Bee's Turbo Engineering Crew :eek: LOL
DNT BE CONBLAMINATING MY NAME LIKE THAT. LOL

[BTEC]

NAw no biggie, im just stating he already has the system then why change?

Yes Chrome is cheaper than hondata no question there,but why sell a good system just so one tuner can tune it. Keep in mind scvotty ids the only person who tunes chrome or uberdata he moves everyone in ATL is fucked!!
NOT ME. LOL!!!!!!

[Vteckidd]

NAw no biggie, im just stating he already has the system then why change?

Yes Chrome is cheaper than hondata no question there,but why sell a good system just so one tuner can tune it. Keep in mind scvotty ids the only person who tunes chrome or uberdata he moves everyone in ATL is fucked!!
since its open source, anyone with the hardware can tune it. Ed could prob tune it if he wanted to. Batlground can tune it, Topspeed can tune it.

What if knowledge an balanced shut down, then everyone with hondata is fucked lol. Cause without an authorized dealer, you cant tune the S200

[93H22ACX]

NAw no biggie, im just stating he already has the system then why change?

Yes Chrome is cheaper than hondata no question there,but why sell a good system just so one tuner can tune it. Keep in mind scvotty ids the only person who tunes chrome or uberdata he moves everyone in ATL is fucked!!

good point.

also, i dont think someone with a mild build would need 2step.....cause they'll break trannies and axles.:D i did when i started out



Tuning with HONDATA
Taken from: http://hondata.com/s200.html
Hondata S200 $295
Boost Option $200
Launch Control $50
Datalogging $50
Chip ECU $75 takes 4-5 days
Used P28 $100
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$150 (rough estimate, most cars with mild setups only take that long. I assuming Balanced charges $150 form what i have heard, i MAY BE WRONG)

TOTAL:$1145.00

no more s200 really....just s300

so....

S300 =$600
Chippnig=$50
Total= $650 + tunning of atleast 1hour min at $150 /hr


BTW mike, you forgot to add cost of ecu with Scotty. I remember asking him a few months back for an ecu and he said something of the $200 range.


there are a few guys from AL that can tune s200

[Vteckidd]

S300 =$600
Chippnig=$75 (PER hondatas website)
Used P28 ECU $100
Tuning 2.5hoursx$150=375.00
TOTAL:$1150



BTW mike, you forgot to add cost of ecu with Scotty. I remember asking him a few months back for an ecu and he said something of the $200 range.

no i didnt :)



Tuning with CHROMEPRO
Chipped P28,P30,P72 ECU with basemap from Scotty $180
Boost option FREE
Launch Control FREE
Datalogging $20
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$140 (MSPi rate)
TOTAL:$550.00

that includes the ECU. Your right though, i think he charges $200-225 for the P72s because of the knock board, an since you have an H22, thats the ideal ecu you would need.

[Vteckidd]

thats just plain COLD BLOODED :lmfao:

[B18c1Turboed]

What if knowledge an balanced shut down, then everyone with hondata is fucked lol. Cause without an authorized dealer, you cant tune the S200

Not really! Thats why we all run S300 now, and we have a dyno we can use anytime, THANKS AAP ALSO!!!

And im sure its harder for 2 shops in Atl too close down than loose one tuner!!

[Vteckidd]

Not really! Thats why we all run S300 now, and we have a dyno we can use anytime, THANKS AAP ALSO!!!

And im sure its harder for 2 shops in Atl too close down than loose one tuner!!
thats why i said S200

Does hondata offer their existing customers the option to upgrade their old S200 systems to S300 for a small fee?

just curious

[93H22ACX]

thats why i said S200

Does hondata offer their existing customers the option to upgrade their old S200 systems to S300 for a small fee?

just curious

upgrade from s200 to s300 is....buy a brand new s300 LOL... i dont think its upgradebale like the old stage 1,2,3,and 4's

[B18c1Turboed]

thats why i said S200

Does hondata offer their existing customers the option to upgrade their old S200 systems to S300 for a small fee?

just curious

Too be honest i wouldnt know, i didnt worry about it.I sold my S200 for what the s300 cost me. As a matter of fact you still owe me my disk that where not in the box when i got the s300 from you!! hmmmmmmmmmm...

im sure you can upgrade the uberdata and chrome for free,why? becasue the systems are free to begin with.so what you charge for is socketing teh ecu and stuff. So with chrome yes u can upgrade for Free because it was Free to start with!!

[Vteckidd]

Too be honest i wouldnt know, i didnt worry about it.I sold my S200 for what the s300 cost me. As a matter of fact you still owe me my disk that where not in the box when i got the s300 from you!! hmmmmmmmmmm...
I still have the box here i think, ill look in a min



im sure you can upgrade the uberdata and chrome for free,why? becasue the systems are free to begin with.so what you charge for is socketing teh ecu and stuff. So with chrome yes u can upgrade for Free because it was Free to start with!!

Well we run CHROME PRO which is $180. We bought the software but upgrade everyone to it for free. If someone wanted to tune regular Chrome or uberdata its free off pgmfi.org

But Chrome Pro which has 5 bar map capability, ITB tools, Map and TPS based tables is $180

[EmminoDaGreat]

my 2cents....you guys are like women... bitch bitch bitch

[Vteckidd]

my 2cents....you guys are like women... bitch bitch bitch
no ones bitching.

hurry up an get to work fucker, we have cars to finish

[boostedb16]

theres a guy name chris in dalton or calhoun that tunes s200 but like i said "$800.00". thats why i will drive 45 minutes to mainstream and get mine tuned.

[boostedb16]

my 2cents....you guys are like women... bitch bitch bitchnah i think the bitches have left, now we can talk boosting and tuning with out whinning about whos shop is better, because i think both shops are able two tune,install turbos or swap engines if not they would not be in buisness.

[BTEC]

nah i think the bitches have left, now we can talk boosting and tuning with out whinning about whos shop is better, because i think both shops are able two tune,install turbos or swap engines if not they would not be in buisness.
YEAH SO HAVE U SET UP THE APPT TO GET UR CAR TUNED AND MAKE SOME REAL POWUH?

[B18c1Turboed]

nah i think the bitches have left, now we can talk boosting and tuning with out whinning about whos shop is better, because i think both shops are able two tune,install turbos or swap engines if not they would not be in buisness.

Well dumbass i dont own a shop, and im not the one that needs help trying to decied what EMS to go with becasue im a broke ass and cant afford shit!!
YEa talk that smack you slow ass bitch that wont even hit 229 according to mike before your motor blows up!!!haha

[B18c1Turboed]

YEAH SO HAVE U SET UP THE APPT TO GET UR CAR TUNED AND MAKE SOME REAL POWUH?

Anything under 300Hp isnt real power!! SHit my old maxima made 280hp i guess that was real power for you also!!

[Vteckidd]

Well dumbass i dont own a shop, and im not the one that needs help trying to decied what EMS to go with becasue im a broke ass and cant afford shit!!
YEa talk that smack you slow ass bitch that wont even hit 229 according to mike before your motor blows up!!!haha
Once again, i said 230whp is reliable, i wouldnt trust a b16 PAST that, if he wants to make more, ill push it. it may last it may not.

/thread because now, officially, its going nowhere

[BTEC]

Anything under 300Hp isnt real power!! SHit my old maxima made 280hp i guess that was real power for you also!!
WHY ARE U STILL GOING AT IT? 230 IS BETTER THAN THE POSSIBLE 200 HE MIGHT BE MAKING NOW SO HELL FEEL A DIFFERENCE. LET IS GO DOOD.

[nextelbuddy]

WHY ARE U STILL GOING AT IT? 230 IS BETTER THAN THE POSSIBLE 200 HE MIGHT BE MAKING NOW SO HELL FEEL A DIFFERENCE. LET IS GO DOOD.


because even with a DRAGII or III kit (takin it back old skool) those are shameful numbers back in those days. what makes you think any one would be happy with 230 whp when 300 whp is totally fine on todays motors with good tuning, conservative timing and nice straight AFR's

its almost unspeakable now days to admit you only got 230whp with a turbo stock gsr motor just because anything more is not reliable.

no, what it is though.. these shops are SAYING that anything more than 230 whp is NOT reliable because they are trying to protect them selves by giving them selves a BUFFER with numbers. so fingers cant be pointed at them etc etc..

its either that.. or lack of knowledge and experience to push the envelope..

and honestly 300 hp is not even close to pushing the envelope on stock block GSR motor anymore. maybe 2-3 years ago when people were starting with DSM injectors stock MAP sensor and SAFC/VAFC tunes.

Mike if you made as much as you id on a NA motor which was what over 240 right? to the wheels

then making 230 whp with turbo i dont care if it was with a tiny greddy TD05 turbo is just pathetic.

that kind of gain is not even worth spending all the money on stand alone or hondata piggy backs when the kind of tuning is available today that can run a boosted stock motor for miles and mies as long as standard maintence is kept up and yo dont OVER BOOST whch i havea feeling was probably the case in more than one of the cars you claimed to have failed over 250whp in your past replies.

[BTEC]

because even with a DRAGII or III kit (takin it back old skool) those are shameful numbers back in those days. what makes you think any one would be happy with 230 whp when 300 whp is totally fine on todays motors with good tuning, conservative timing and nice straight AFR's

its almost unspeakable now days to admit you only got 230whp with a turbo stock gsr motor just because anything more is not reliable.

no, what it is though.. these shops are SAYING that anything more than 230 whp is NOT reliable because they are trying to protect them selves by giving them selves a BUFFER with numbers. so fingers cant be pointed at them etc etc..

its either that.. or lack of knowledge and experience to push the envelope..

and honestly 300 hp is not even close to pushing the envelope on stock block GSR motor anymore. maybe 2-3 years ago when people were starting with DSM injectors stock MAP sensor and SAFC/VAFC tunes.

Mike if you made as much as you id on a NA motor which was what over 240 right? to the wheels

then making 230 whp with turbo i dont care if it was with a tiny greddy TD05 turbo is just pathetic.

that kind of gain is not even worth spending all the money on stand alone or hondata piggy backs when the kind of tuning is available today that can run a boosted stock motor for miles and mies as long as standard maintence is kept up and yo dont OVER BOOST whch i havea feeling was probably the case in more than one of the cars you claimed to have failed over 250whp in your past replies.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE B16.

[B18c1Turboed]

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE B16.


NO we where talking about B series motor in general. As i recall the topic was BEST BOOSTED b series motor!!

[BTEC]

NO we where talking about B series motor in general. As i recall the topic was BEST BOOSTED b series motor!!
FOR A MINUTE I THINK WE GOT STRICTLY ON THE B16 AND 230 HP. BUT I REALLY DNT CARE BC IM GOING HM AND MY CAR IS THE FASTEST IN THE GALAXY. :2up: BITCHIZ!!!!!! :burnout:

[nextelbuddy]

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE B16.


i understand. but i am 100% confident in B16 having reliable 300 whp every day wit no issues as well.

yes tey have weaker ring lands but BOOST doesnt kill ringlands, DETONATION does. and detonation comes from the tune, gas used, and over boosting due to shitty boost controller, terrbile connections with shitty rubber/silicone hoses. for the wastegate/boost source.

if you have a sound turbo setup on a B16 weather its 1st gen/2nd gen B16 motors and good hose connections and nice conservative tune with good EMS then making 300 whp is every bit as safe as running 230 whp.


i would be ashamed to say "yes my car is turboed and i have 230whp"

[BTEC]

NO DOUBT. I DIDNT SEE MIKE SAY U CANT MAKE THAT KINDA POWER, HE SAID HE DNT RECCOMEND IT.

WHEN U SAY STOCK BLOCK DO U MEAN RODS AND PISTONS ARE STOCK OR STOCK SLEEVES. I WOULD THINK SLEEVES BUT I JUST WAN TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.
STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER TO THIS

[Vteckidd]

because even with a DRAGII or III kit (takin it back old skool) those are shameful numbers back in those days. what makes you think any one would be happy with 230 whp when 300 whp is totally fine on todays motors with good tuning, conservative timing and nice straight AFR's

its almost unspeakable now days to admit you only got 230whp with a turbo stock gsr motor just because anything more is not reliable.

no, what it is though.. these shops are SAYING that anything more than 230 whp is NOT reliable because they are trying to protect them selves by giving them selves a BUFFER with numbers. so fingers cant be pointed at them etc etc..

its either that.. or lack of knowledge and experience to push the envelope..

and honestly 300 hp is not even close to pushing the envelope on stock block GSR motor anymore. maybe 2-3 years ago when people were starting with DSM injectors stock MAP sensor and SAFC/VAFC tunes.

Mike if you made as much as you id on a NA motor which was what over 240 right? to the wheels

then making 230 whp with turbo i dont care if it was with a tiny greddy TD05 turbo is just pathetic.

that kind of gain is not even worth spending all the money on stand alone or hondata piggy backs when the kind of tuning is available today that can run a boosted stock motor for miles and mies as long as standard maintence is kept up and yo dont OVER BOOST whch i havea feeling was probably the case in more than one of the cars you claimed to have failed over 250whp in your past replies.

Once again for the LAST TIME

I said b16 motors have WEAKER RINGLANDS, THEY SEEM TO FAIL PAST 230-250whp.

A stock GSR I would think is safe around 280whp, i would not call a 300whp STOCK BLOCK RELIABLE. Although it has and can be done.

I never said "it cant be done, your dynoes are bullshit, etc" i merely stated taht i think its not RELIABLE as in you can drive it for 2 years beat the shit out of it an it wont ever break. I never said its not possible.

Considering most guys go from :
135Whp B16 or 145whp stock GSR to 230-250whp with one of our turbo kits, they are more than happy with the power increase. we dont build DRAG cars, we build STREET cars that the customers can have fun with, not do alot of maintanence, worry free, etc.

Occasionally with someone like SPOOLIN or ILOVEBOOST we get to push the limits and run 30psi through some motors. But if you know mainstream, you know thats not our CORE group of customers. We build a shit ton of fun, reliable, street cars. We build what customers want. If someone wants a 400whp stock GSR, we'll do it, but i would advise the customer to make sure he has money to rebuild it cause it wont last. Most of the time people arent lookning for that kind of power. they want hassle free power. best bang for the buck.

Look at Tunerfest, we didnt have 2 10 sec cars, we had 25 12-15 sec cars. Had spoolin been there we would have had 11 sec car. I really dont care if our cars ever go into the 10s,9s, 8s. Thats not what we build, not saying we cant build it, but its not our main focus. Honest truth is we all have cars capable of 600whp + , but we literally dont have the TIME to work on them we are so busy with customers cars.

Comparing my $8000 ALL MOTOR sleeved, built professionally, forged rods an pistons motor to a stock B16 is not even right lol If someone had my NA motor but with 9.5:1 slugs in it, i would be happy to rev it to 9800 with 30psi of boost.

Who is happy with a 230whp turbo setup? lots of poeple, 100whp increase over stock is ALOT of power. Not everyone is making 500-800whp turbo cars. Some guys want street cars without the big laggy powerband. A t3 Super 60 on a stock GSR is WAY MORE FUN to drive than a T3/T4 60trim on a stock motor. Sure the t3/t4 makes more power, but which is MORE FUN TO DRIVE, the T3 is. cause it spools at 3500rpms and makes peak tq across till redline. Not everone is in search of big numbers. some just want a fun car to drive.

I think thats really waht all this is about. UNDER PRESSURE has no doubt set the bar HIGH an so has ISP. They have always had big numbers, fast cars. Alot of them are PERSONAL cars or Friends cars. But thats TOTALLY different from what the subject at hand is.

The subject was, whats the best boosted b series motor. The asnwer is a GSR, it can handle 300whp+. A b16, if you think can hold over 300whp every single day, id love to see one last longer than 3 months. Dont confuse my B16 statements with my GSR statements. You and danny are both doing that.

For me to reccomend to a CUSTOMER what a STOCK motor can handle, the answer is 100-130whp over stock, drive it, enjoy it. My PERSONAL car, i would have no problems running 400whp through it, but if it pops, i can fix it cheaply, others dont have that luxury. Thats my opinion, if you think thats ludicrous and we dont know what we are doing, THAT IS PERFECTLY FINE BY ME. feel free to reccomend Ed, Jesus, God, Bernie Man , whoever you want. That is your right as a CONSUMER.



Cheers, and good luck on your M3 sean, never got to say how badass it is :)

[anothaRRR]

About 3.5yrs ago I was running 15psi on my bone stock ITR motor for like a year or so, making 300+whp, then was sold, ran nitrous through it for a good bit, and now back to stock, and still running...How much more reliable do you want...hmmmm

[93H22ACX]

STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER TO THIS

stock block would be stock pistons, stock sleeves, stock rods, OEM shiznitz.

usually we'd say stock sleeves if it had pistons and rods.

Off topic:

i would do a H22 or Bseries with 12:1cr, GT42R, and 40psi of boost on VP import. :ninja:

someone sponsor me :D

[B18c1Turboed]

About 4yrs ago I was running 15psi on my bone stock ITR motor for like a year or so, making 300+whp, then was sold, ran nitrous through it for a good bit, and now back to stock, and still running...How much more reliable do you want...hmmmm


Damm man that brings back memories, i remmeber when shawn and I went up there to help you with the intecrooler piping.Thinking about it now that turbo kit was hella ghetto, but it made the power!!!

[Vteckidd]

stock block would be stock pistons, stock sleeves, stock rods, OEM shiznitz.

usually we'd say stock sleeves if it had pistons and rods.

Off topic:

i would do a H22 or Bseries with 12:1cr, GT42R, and 40psi of boost on VP import. :ninja:

someone sponsor me :D
you build it ill dyno it, i have a GT42R here :)

[93H22ACX]

you build it ill dyno it, i have a GT42R here :)

:eek:

ok i meant GT60 and 200shot of nitrous :D

[Turbogixxer]

The subject was, whats the best boosted b series motor. The asnwer is a GSR, it can handle 300whp+. A b16, if you think can hold over 300whp every single day, id love to see one last longer than 3 months. Dont confuse my B16 statements with my GSR statements. You and danny are both doing that.


I never said that you could not do it. The point I was making is that, I have personal gone past your limits (way past) without a single problem you stated.

Can every motor get away (I should say owner) with running 300whp on a stock B16? No, but most can.

I have been doing this for a good amount of time. My main goal is to make the car last waaaaaaaaay past the owner ever wanted/dreamed it could. I rarely (almost never) lose a motor, that speaks for itself.

[boostedb16]

Well dumbass i dont own a shop, and im not the one that needs help trying to decied what EMS to go with becasue im a broke ass and cant afford shit!!
YEa talk that smack you slow ass bitch that wont even hit 229 according to mike before your motor blows up!!!hahawell for one i am not a broke ass that cant afford shit, and the other is the dumb ass part is why pay $800.00 for the same results as $380.00 so it looks like your the dumbass with no common sence and the dumb ass that cant read " i want reliablity not a blown up car sitting in my driveway" so blow your shit up and i will pass by and laugh my ass off, :2up: , sorry i thought all the whinny bitches were gone.

[EmminoDaGreat]

l o l

[v8killr]

an then again i suppose you think this is a good looking graph without detonation:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/joepiscapo_83/Picture001.jpg


i said that wire on the plug wire was messed up. thats why it was choppy. there wasnt any detonation. the plugs showed no sign of it. after each pull i would check the plugs. even after each race i checked my plugs. NO DETONATION.

anyways...boost the shit out of your engine. it isnt going to hurt it. PUSSIES! haha!!! :eek: :thinking: :taun:

[nextelbuddy]

Damm man that brings back memories, i remmeber when shawn and I went up there to help you with the intecrooler piping.Thinking about it now that turbo kit was hella ghetto, but it made the power!!!


ah the dremel days. whos the man with the steady hand :ninja:

[anothaRRR]

ah the dremel days. whos the man with the steady hand :ninja:
Of course, you are...