Sabbath on Saturday?

[dELfONiK]

I grew up going to the Catholic church. I even went to Catholic school during my elementary years. We went to church on Sundays, like a lot of Christians.

I have a coworker who goes to church on Saturdays. He is a part of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. He says the Sabbath is really on Saturday, and he explained and showed me passages from the bible. The first one was God created the earth in 6 days, and on the 7th day he rested. First day of the week is Sunday, and the 7th day is Saturday. He even said Christians used to go to church on Saturdays a long time ago...

Anyways, I did some research online and found some interesting reading... After reading, please share your thoughts. I have had many conversations with my coworker about this myself...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sabbath.htm

[joecoolfreak]

You are correct about the sabbath. The seventh day was saturday and was celebrated as such by the jewish faith. The christians started celebrating on Sunday simply to differentiate themselves from the jews. This tradition is the only reason that christians still choose to celebrate on sunday.

[trini_gsr]

You are correct about the sabbath. The seventh day was saturday and was celebrated as such by the jewish faith. The christians started celebrating on Sunday simply to differentiate themselves from the jews. This tradition is the only reason that christians still choose to celebrate on sunday.

the article posted is on point, but the statement by joecoolfreak is inaccurate, especially that last part. as the article mentioned, the sabbath was 'officially' moved from saturday to sunday by Constantine, when he decided to make Christianity the offficial religion of Rome. This was largely done because the majority of 'pagan' worshippers revered the Sun and Sunday was their holy day.

A lot of the imagery and customs Christians have, from Christmas on 12/25, to Easter, and more...is a result of this integration of paganism and christianity. honestly speaking, it was a great idea on Constantine's part. not saying that some christians didn't switch back then for fear of persecution...but as the article pointed out, both Jews and Christians were getting thrown to the lions before Constantine nationalized the religion.

The practice still lingers to this day because the vast majority of current Christian sects are descendants of Catholicism. For a looooong time (several hundred yrs), Catholicism = Christianity. They did a great job of stamping out anyone who disagreed. The practice stuck out of habit, but as the article describes, it's not Biblically supported.

The statement about christians ONLY worshipping on Sundays TODAY, to differentiate themselves from the Jews is pretty outrageous :thinking:

[joecoolfreak]

the article posted is on point, but the statement by joecoolfreak is inaccurate, especially that last part. as the article mentioned, the sabbath was 'officially' moved from saturday to sunday by Constantine, when he decided to make Christianity the offficial religion of Rome. This was largely done because the majority of 'pagan' worshippers revered the Sun and Sunday was their holy day.

A lot of the imagery and customs Christians have, from Christmas on 12/25, to Easter, and more...is a result of this integration of paganism and christianity. honestly speaking, it was a great idea on Constantine's part. not saying that some christians didn't switch back then for fear of persecution...but as the article pointed out, both Jews and Christians were getting thrown to the lions before Constantine nationalized the religion.

The practice still lingers to this day because the vast majority of current Christian sects are descendants of Catholicism. For a looooong time (several hundred yrs), Catholicism = Christianity. They did a great job of stamping out anyone who disagreed. The practice stuck out of habit, but as the article describes, it's not Biblically supported.

The statement about christians ONLY worshipping on Sundays TODAY, to differentiate themselves from the Jews is pretty outrageous :thinking:

There might be a great deal of truth that the pagan's had something to do with the change as well, but you might want to give this http://biblelight.net/Madrid-Sabbath.htm a read. I did not say that current christians still do it for the same reason. I would say that your comment about habit was straight on target. That doesn't change the fact that the original reason had a great deal to do with making a substancial change from the jewish tradition.

[Romeyo07]

Does it really matter so long as the day is set aside just for holding sabbeth?

[yerrow]

actually trini is correct. the large majority of the roman empire was pagan (worshipping the sun not satan). the conversion and baptism of constantine and the roman empire was done on essentially his deathbed and was done to unify his empire politically, religiously and to unify his territory.

most of all symbology of catholicism and christanity has been "borrowed" from various other religions that don't even exist today. even the most sacred of days...christmas was borrowed from mithraism and the pagan sol invictus. they both celebrated a birth festival on dec. 25. before the 4th century jesus' b-day was celebrated on january 6

[metalman]

Does it really matter so long as the day is set aside just for holding sabbeth?

Interesting question. I am far too busy to come here in this forum and discuss/debate these issues anymore, I am sure ya'll didnt miss me :D... but nevertheless....a few things stand out to me as a student of religion.

Its quite interesting to me that virtually no Christian group has any problem with the 10 commandments...except for the 4th one. (except for the catholic church who also edit/disregard the commandment pertaining to bowing to idols) In fact most heartily support the 10 commandments...well except for the specific instruction of the 4th commandment which they forget...which is also interesting because thats the only one that mentions the word remember.

I find it ironic that many of these groups complain bitterly when a picture or representation of the commandments is removed from a school/courthouse etc but those same people really dont care about ALL of the commandments.
The ones who profess to care about the 4th commandment make edits to the Scripture or excuses as to why its not valid, which is also inconsistent. Either the commandments are binding principles of God or theyre not. Mankind isnt free to pick and choose which commandments are "convenient" or which principles they want to agree with IF they want God to save them. The Bible speaks at great lengths about obedience. Obedience is a fruit of one who is truly following God.

A couple other facts from a strict Biblical standpoint... from Genesis to Revelation there is not one text doing away with the seventh day Sabbath, on the contrary, the entire Scripture supports it. The Bible even teaches that specific day will be observed in the new earth/heaven. There is also not ONE Bible text instructing/transfering the day of worship to sunday. It is totally a man made invention based in pagan sun/fertility worship as others have pointed out. Its invention had nothing to do with being "less jewish" but everything to do with being "more pagan"...more roman catholic.

As a political/historical note, enforced sunday obervance as national law was considered and narrowly defeated in congress in the late 1800s. I think that many pseudo-christian groups today (Pat Robertson types & the roman catholic church etc) would now happily support such a law....which actually viloates every principle of Scripture. Many states and municipalities still/already have "blue laws" which are designed to enforce sunday observance as the "sabbath". In some areas those laws are occasionaly enforced. In one part of Maryland a fellow was arrested for washing his car on sunday when I was there a couple years back.

All groups have their issues, some in one area, some in another. Some honestly keep all the commandments which is all fine and good, yet ignore other "weightier matters" as Christ Himself pointed out. Some just want you to accept a certain teaching and "join" their group/church. Others are just sharing something theyve found and believe. The bottom line is for any Christian, if you want to know what God wants you to do, (about this or any question) honestly seek Him, without personal bias or preference, follow every word He reveals to you, seek knowlege through prayer & study and He will show you exactly what you should do. The information is all there, all you have to do is look for it.

As to Romeyos question...apparantly it must matter as God saw fit to identify a specific day of worship. He never said "Remember ANY day of your choosing to keep it holy..."
Why would man choose to forget that which God said to remember?
Even Jesus said the sabbath was made for mankind...and thats the word he used when translated.
Why would anyone willfully choose to disregard the "appointment" God set aside to meet with them? Humans show even more respect for other humans then that. If you have an appointment with a doctor at a specific time you show up at that time....IF...you want to be treated. Why not show God the same respect? Does man really expect God will do whatever suits mankind?

Christ kept the commandments...all 10 of them. He taught all others to do the same. He summarized the ten commandments, reiterating them by saying "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart (Mans duty to God, the principles contained in commandments 1 thru 4) and love thy neighbor as thyself." (mans duty to man outlined in comandments 6 thru 10)
Should mankind ignore what Christ said?
Can man expect to be saved from sin/death etc while purposefully & intentionally disobeying (FORGETTING) Gods commandments & principles?
I've searched long but never found such in Scripture. On the contrary, Christ said "My sheep hear MY voice...they follow ME."

Keep in mind, I am not interested in anyone joining my church...or meeting my pastor/teacher/bishop/rabbi/guru....I belong to none & have none.



Now.... back to your regular debates/arguments/flaming etc :D

[Romeyo07]

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This was written when many Jews were becoming converted to Christianity. The general sentiment in the beginning of the chapter was to accept anyone who is willing to come, regardless of their personal convictions/traditions. The JEWISH sabbath was set for Saturday, but the customs of the gentiles wasn't. So long as they set a day that was in rememberance of the Lord, that was all that mattered. The gentiles were not forced to follow any Jewish tradition or custom. Along with this was their dietary habits, etc. So, don't bicker over the little things like this, so long as you are doing so.

So, to correct you, NO, you do NOT need to hold Saturday as the Sabbath, so long as you are setting a day aside just for the Lord. Many pro golfers that work on Sunday have a Chaplain join the group on Monday to do their "service". Many people now work on the weekend and can't attend a service. A devout follower would set his day off to be his "sabbath" day.

[metalman]

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Unfortantely this Scripture has really nothing to do with the seventh day sabbath so is irellevant to that discussion. A common mistake mind you and a view held by many. Cermonial laws/"sabbaths" and the Law of Moses (Jewish law) are commonly mistaken for the 10 commandment principle/law of God.
The Bible makes quite a distinction between the two. One was given to MANKIND, and written in the hearts of men, the other "added" because of trangression and given to His "chosen" people. And theres alot more on that.



The JEWISH sabbath was set for Saturday, but the customs of the gentiles wasn't.


More mis-information. Nothing personal toward you mind you. ;) The seventh day sabbath was created for MANKIND at Creation. Jesus Christ reiterated this. There was no such thing as a Jew when it was given to ALL.



So, to correct you, NO, you do NOT need to hold Saturday as the Sabbath, so long as you are setting a day aside just for the Lord.

A commonly held and very popular belief...but one that doesnt hold up well at all under Biblical scrutiny I am afraid. I have looked at this question a great deal over many years and I can tell you if you wish to keep "holy" another day you are left with nothing Biblical to hang it on. The Sabbath observer (in the seventh day context) wins this Biblical debate hands down. The sunday keeper is left with only "tradition" and his own man made observance of the ressurection.

Again, I am not trying to get you into my church, I belong to none.

I dont expect to persuade anyone really either as most people are content to continue in their traditions regardless of Scriptural instruction/evidence. To be honest, this is also true of many other subjects as well. People have a hard time going "against the grain" when it comes to many things, especially on a topic that would require major habit change AND especially when they feel blessed by their church association and their church doesnt teach/agree with it.

[Romeyo07]

You must not be comprehending that scripture then. Read the chapter, it should come to you. Its talking about the customs held by both Jews and Gentiles, and which to follow. This includes Sabbath and eating habits. The Jews lived under the law, gentiles didn't. Did the gentiles have to start? No, a new covenant was created when Jesus died on the cross, therfore creating a set of standards established by Him. The jews held sabbath and Jesus wanted them to continue to do so. Sabbath means nothing to a gentile, so what day is to be held holy for them? Get where I'm going? I can't see how it gets any more clear.

This, like many other cases, goes against your personal convictions and therefore your "years of study" over rule any other thought. I'm not making statements, I'm providing you with a biblical answer.

You, like many others, find yourself to be sure of your convictions and hold them all to be correct, rather than keeping your mind open to the possibility of a difference between the truth and what you find to be true. I'm not attacking you, just making an observation.

What it all boils down to, and what this chapter is saying, is that there are more important issues to worry about than this. God wants you to concern yourself with the relationship you hold with Him rather than the little stuff.

[metalman]

You must not be comprehending that scripture then. Read the chapter, it should come to you. Its talking about the customs held by both Jews and Gentiles, and which to follow. This includes Sabbath and eating habits. The Jews lived under the law, gentiles didn't. Did the gentiles have to start? No, a new covenant was created when Jesus died on the cross, therfore creating a set of standards established by Him. The jews held sabbath and Jesus wanted them to continue to do so. Sabbath means nothing to a gentile, so what day is to be held holy for them? Get where I'm going? I can't see how it gets any more clear.



Your statement couldnt be more incorrect and void of fact.
ALL Christians, jew and gentile, kept the seventh day sabbath....that was NEVER even the issue. Nor was it ever debated. Jesus kept the seventh day sabbath, the diciples kept it, the entire Christian church observed it. All Christians kept the seventh day sabbath until the 3rd century...and many continued even then after paganism entered the church defying the sunday "tradition" and catholic dogma. Many were killed for it during the middle ages...among other things.

The law the Jews lived "under" (and still live under)was the handwriting of ordinances, the laws pertaining to eating, drinking, handwashing, sacrifices and ceremonial sabbaths which fall on all different days, not just the seventh. You show your ingorance of history and this specific part of Scripture to suggest otherwise. Thats not intended to be a personal attack upon you but a statement of reality. Perhaps you only reguritate that which you have been taught as well....whatever, nothing personal intended.

Fact - what was being addressed here were Christian jewish converts who were still keeping the ceremonial sabbaths, days and other rituals which Christians teach are no longer valid as the Messiah has already come in the form of Jesus Christ. The coming of Jesus Christ is forshadowed by those very rituals and was the ONLY purpose for them. Continuing in them is pointless as their purpose has already been fulfilled. The Sabbath or Rest was instituted at Creation for mankind according to Christ and is a memorial of it as well as part Gods Eternal Law...at least accoding to Scripture. This is not my "conviction" but a Biblical fact all should consider.
Most learned men I have debated with aknowlege what I have stated here to be true. They use other "rationalizations" for an excuse.

[man]

For hispanics, Sunday is the 7th day.

[bjorn]

Metalman you gave a very good comment, just to add to what you said everyone should check this link out it shows Sabbath keeping through the centuries the link is http://www.sabbathtruth.com/history/sabbath_history20.asp, also this other link gives other information on the sabbath :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath#Sunday_vs_Saturday