Abortion

[Hulud]

lets get this started *ding ding*

but keep it civilized

[CSquared]

Other: Stfu. :)

[TRINI4LIFE]

I am for it because there are Certain Circumstances for example:

1. Age---- There are too many young people thinking that they are grown want to have kids and they themselves are kids. How is a kid that can't even get a job going to raise a kid??? Parents?

2. Beliefs---- Religion, some people have strict beliefs about kids and marriage

3. Financial Status----- Enough said.....

These are MY MY MY MY opinion... Not intended for anyone else on IA or anywhere else. :2cents: :2cents:

[kelly marie]

no its not ok.. unless the girl was raped.. then it was not her choice to have sex!

you have unprotected sex.. you deal with std's, babies and so on.. you made your bed no lay in it..

[Hulud]

2. Beliefs---- Religion, some people have strict beliefs about kids and marriage

got a question about this one, so religion says kids outside of wedlock is bad but your saying that abortion is better in the eyes of that religions god?

im just wondering if thats what you are saying with that comment

[TRINI4LIFE]

no its not ok.. unless the girl was raped.. then it was not her choice to have sex!

you have unprotected sex.. you deal with std's, babies and so on.. you made your bed no lay in it..

Yeah that was another one of my thoughts as well.

[kelly marie]

i understand the whole kids having kids thing.. like when they are 14 15 16 having babies and what not.. but i think they should continue the pregnancy and deliver the child.. give it up for adoption so it at least has a chance for a better life.. maybe through that whole experience they will learn to wait..

[LordMDP]

I am for it because there are Certain Circumstances for example:

1. Age---- There are too many young people thinking that they are grown want to have kids and they themselves are kids. How is a kid that can't even get a job going to raise a kid??? Parents?

2. Beliefs---- Religion, some people have strict beliefs about kids and marriage

3. Financial Status----- Enough said.....

These are MY MY MY MY opinion... Not intended for anyone else on IA or anywhere else. :2cents: :2cents:
those are the 4 worst anwsers for pro-choice you could have named

1. They could adopt the child-there are many couples out there that cannot have kids of there own
2. I dont agree that killing an unborn child(a human being) is better then letting them be born and live life
3. there are different options for that one

[LordMDP]

no its not ok.. unless the girl was raped.. then it was not her choice to have sex!

you have unprotected sex.. you deal with std's, babies and so on.. you made your bed no lay in it..
+1

the main question here i think is

If a women is raped-is it wrong to get an abortion-that is a tough question

i dont have an awnser but I did have a high school teacher that was raped and decided to still have the child. God Bless her-as far as I know they are both doing good and i think she is now engauged...what would you tell your child though who her real dad was-i don't know-that has to be very hard(if you tell her at all?) but I have respect for that women

[TRINI4LIFE]

got a question about this one, so religion says kids outside of wedlock is bad but your saying that abortion is better in the eyes of that religions god?

im just wondering if thats what you are saying with that comment

No Basically I was just stating that "some" people are so into their religions beliefs that they would not have kids without being married for example: disgracing their whole family.

[TRINI4LIFE]

those are the 4 worst anwsers for pro-choice you could have named

1. They could adopt the child-there are many couples out there that cannot have kids of there own
2. I dont agree that killing an unborn child(a human being) is better then letting them be born and live life
3. there are different options for that one

Once again these are MY opinion.... To answer your choices
1. Yeah they could have but I was reading a post by Paul aka. Admin " There are over 50,000 (or some figure like that) children that are currently in foster care. I would let you do the math on how much it is going to cost our economy to raise each kid. Who is going to be responsible for raising these kids? Us the Tax Payers
2. Agreed with you on this one, BUT. How are they going to live a normal mental life knowing that their parents did care about them enough to keep them?
3. How are they going to raise kids if they 1. Aren’t old enough 2. Doesn’t have a stable home. Just to name a few.

By no means it is a good thing but there are certain circumstances. At first I was like most people here saying that it is wrong but until you have been placed in the situation before you would not have the slightest clue.

[4dmin]

NO GOV'T HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO W/ YOUR BODY... WHERE DOES THIS BEGIN/END? WHATS NEXT YOU CAN'T SMOKE B/C OF LUNG CANCER, YOU CAN'T DRINK B/C OF LIVER DISEASE, YOU CAN'T FUCK B/C STDS... IT AMAZES ME THE WAY PEOPLE THINK SOMETIMES. YOU THINK BY GOVERNING OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL SOLVE SOMETHING... WELL GUESS WHAT IT WON'T. IT WILL ONLY MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE WOMEN DYING IN BACK ALLY WAYS B/C OF A BAD CHOICE NOT NECCESSARILY MADE FOR THEM.

THIS IS SUCH A FUNNY TOPIC B/C I WILL GO TO SAY 99.9% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROLIFE HAVE NEVER ADOPTED A CHILD NOR WILL THEY; THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN DO W/ THEIR OWN BODY. IF MY WIFE WAS GOING TO HAVE ANY ABORTION AND YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH TO ME I WOULD SAY FINE HERE YOU HAVE THE BABY? YA I'M SURE YOU WOULD LOOK AT ME LIKE :eek: :screwy: SO THINK BEFORE YOU CAST THE FIRST STONE.

There is life in everything. Many women use BC which is simply allowing your living cells to die, many choose to swallow consuming the millions of possible lives that could live... yes those are far fetched ideas but where is the end?

If people want so much control over their lives why don't you move to a country full of communist or dictatorship?

I THINK WE NEED TO INSTITUTE LAWS OF STERILIZATION FOR IDIOTS... WOW THAT SHOULD COVER ATLEAST 50% OF OUR POPULATION HAVING CHILDREN. I THINK IT’S DUMB FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE AN UNWANTED CHILD ON MORAL GROUNDS. MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO FEED YOUR KID, MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO GIVE A GOOD PARENTAL ROLE FOR YOUR CHILD, MORAL GROUND AREN'T GOING TO RAISE THE KID...

[/END RANT]

-------------------------------------------------

I think being proactive is the best option... there are far better ways to work the abortion angle; obviously i don't think killing babies b/c you refuse to use BC is right. But everyone is entitled to make mistakes. I think anyone that has an abortion not due to rape must have BC inserted tubes in their body not allowing them to have children 3-5 years. This goes for anyone on welfare. I'm sorry but there is a far worse problem.

(sorry for the caps its help to make sure your reading ;) )

[NiLLy]

:werd: and +1

[Nopaintsls]

NO GOV'T HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO W/ YOUR BODY... WHERE DOES THIS BEGIN/END? WHATS NEXT YOU CAN'T SMOKE B/C OF LUNG CANCER, YOU CAN'T DRINK B/C OF LIVER DISEASE, YOU CAN'T FUCK B/C STDS... IT AMAZES ME THE WAY PEOPLE THINK SOMETIMES. YOU THINK BY GOVERNING OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL SOLVE SOMETHING... WELL GUESS WHAT IT WON'T. IT WILL ONLY MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE WOMEN DYING IN BACK ALLY WAYS B/C OF A BAD CHOICE NOT NECCESSARILY MADE FOR THEM.

THIS IS SUCH A FUNNY TOPIC B/C I WILL GO TO SAY 99.9% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROLIFE HAVE NEVER ADOPTED A CHILD NOR WILL THEY; THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN DO W/ THEIR OWN BODY. IF MY WIFE WAS GOING TO HAVE ANY ABORTION AND YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH TO ME I WOULD SAY FINE HERE YOU HAVE THE BABY? YA I'M SURE YOU WOULD LOOK AT ME LIKE :eek: :screwy: SO THINK BEFORE YOU CAST THE FIRST STONE.

There is life in everything. Many women use BC which is simply allowing your living cells to die, many choose to swallow consuming the millions of possible lives that could live... yes those are far fetched ideas but where is the end?

If people want so much control over their lives why don't you move to a country full of communist or dictatorship?

I THINK WE NEED TO INSTITUTE LAWS OF STERILIZATION FOR IDIOTS... WOW THAT SHOULD COVER ATLEAST 50% OF OUR POPULATION HAVING CHILDREN. I THINK IT’S DUMB FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE AN UNWANTED CHILD ON MORAL GROUNDS. MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO FEED YOUR KID, MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO GIVE A GOOD PARENTAL ROLE FOR YOUR CHILD, MORAL GROUND AREN'T GOING TO RAISE THE KID...

[/END RANT]

-------------------------------------------------

I think being proactive is the best option... there are far better ways to work the abortion angle; obviously i don't think killing babies b/c you refuse to use BC is right. But everyone is entitled to make mistakes. I think anyone that has an abortion not due to rape must have BC inserted tubes in their body not allowing them to have children 3-5 years. This goes for anyone on welfare. I'm sorry but there is a far worse problem.

(sorry for the caps its help to make sure your reading ;) )


+1 that is all :goodjob:

must spread more rep..... sorry I'll get you though

[Jaimecbr900]

This is a very personal choice issue, and we should not chastise anyone on either side as they and only they will have to handle the consequences of their decision.

I agree that there are people that have no business being parents. The flip side to that is that just like anyone is allowed to choose an abortion as their personal choice, so unfortunately we can't force someone NOT to have children either. That choice is too a personal one. Although I think that if the gov't is supporting you....it should have a say in you not taking advantage of the situation too....but that will never happen because we have too many pansies on Capitol hill that look at welfare recipients as just another vote rather than a weight around the neck.

Anyway, that's my short :2cents:

[4dmin]

^ :werd:

[Jaimecbr900]

^ :werd:


;)

Don't forget to tip your waitresses on the way out...... :D

[ShooterMcGavin]

i understand the whole kids having kids thing.. like when they are 14 15 16 having babies and what not.. but i think they should continue the pregnancy and deliver the child.. give it up for adoption so it at least has a chance for a better life.. maybe through that whole experience they will learn to wait..

that's what i don't get, you are one of the multitudes of ppl that have used adoption as a way. but what exactly happens after that? giving a kid up for adoption in most cases is not a saving grace for the child or for the parent. the parent has to go through a long and possibly difficult pregnancy (especially if they're overly young), and the kid has NO GUARANTEES whatsoever once he/she is given up for adoption. many if not most end up bouncing around homes and not given the proper upbringing or attention or opportunities a child SHOULD have. in my eyes, better to let them die as an unborn than to make them suffer through a shitty life. my :2cent:, argue it and tell me i'm wrong til you're blue in the face :goodjob:

[ShooterMcGavin]

+1 and props to both admin and jaime, made some very valid pts.

[BABY J]

no its not ok.. unless the girl was raped.. then it was not her choice to have sex!

you have unprotected sex.. you deal with std's, babies and so on.. you made your bed no lay in it..

Wow. No knock on you, but I TOTALLY disagree here. Things like this is why we have kids killing kids and kids killing adults/parents. A lot of these people are just NOT ready to become adults. Think about it... if it'd JUST affect the mom/dad if they got prego before they were ready then I'd say GO FOR IT, they need to have the kid to "teach them a lesson" or "lay in the bed they made" as you say. However it is a LIFE that will ultimately be affected. If you can't provide for YOURSELF then how/why could you provide for a kid? You can be "pro life" and that's fine, but parents who are parents before they are ready are not doing a kid ANY favors. Go to the jailhouses and ask the inmates about their upbringing and how early their mom had them. Yeah some1 CAN turn out to be something great no matter what, but why STACK THE ODDS AGAINST YOUR KID FROM THE JUMP? You build something on shaky ground it's bound to fall over. Statistics do not lie... the law of averages kix in eventually and I think we just need to be able to make the TOUGH decisions in life w/ your BRAIN and not just your heart. To me, the "make your bed and lay in" phrase means having to look yourself in the mirror and live with the fact that you had to terminate a pregancy b/c you were STUPID. Any other way you handle this problem (1: adoption, 2: trying to struggle to raise the kid when you do not have the means) and the KID pays for it, NOT you. You are "fine" living w/ the fact that "yeah, I did what I had to do and I raised him" but the KID has to live w/ the brunt of your stupidity in most cases. If I could bear that cross for my kid, I would --> I'd live w/ the fact that I had to terminate before I bring them into this world w/ anything less than the BEST chance at becoming something. Yeah, you could send your kid to a gun fight w/ only a knife and he might take out a few people... but he WILL lose. Why not send him in w/ 2 guns, a scope, some body armor and a some camo paint. The anti-abortion people are USUALLY very emo types who need to understand that there is a BALANCE --> you HAVE to use your BRAIN, there is a reason why it is bigger than your heart. To think that some chick who is STUPID/IRRESPONSIBLE enough to get knocked up before marriage ALL OF SUDDEN has the "stuff" to be a good mom, or the best mom just b/c she got prego is dumber than getting knocked up in the 1st place. She has already (and the MAN too, not just her... but the BOTTOM line is WOMEN can get pregant not men. So guess what I am gonna tell my daughter, YUP --> a man can walk away at ANY time, so it's YOUR responsibilty to not get pregnant) shown that at least in some regard she was irresponsible.

Also, as far as the women who get prego while they are ON the pill or the shot should think of some1 ELSE other than themsleves if they want the kid. If a man is gonna go raw w/ you b/c he KNOWS you are on the pill/shot then WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE FEELS IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A BABY SHOULD YOU GET KNOCKED UP???? HELLO!!!! I will give you a hint ladies... I personally think that a woman on BC does NOT want kids... AT ALL COSTS. I have a daughter now b/c I was wrong. I love her to death but this is where I messed up. I relinquished my control to some1 who did not feel the way that I did. I will never do that again. Guys... go home RIGHT NOW and ask your gf what happens if she gets prego... if she says she will not be able to terminate then change the way you play. SERIOUSLY. Take it from me... there is no worse feeling than the love of your life (i.e my daughter) coming from a woman that you would not want to be a mother to your kid. Also ladies, just remember that if your arrangement is "booty", then keep it booty... don't switch it up to "babies" just caus you fuck up. NOT kool. I will prolly be the most vocal man on the board, but I assure you I am saying what most of the guys WANNA say. /rant

[Hulud]

No Basically I was just stating that "some" people are so into their religions beliefs that they would not have kids without being married for example: disgracing their whole family.
if ANYONE one feels that way then they are disgracing their religion more :goodjob:

[BABY J]

i understand the whole kids having kids thing.. like when they are 14 15 16 having babies and what not.. but i think they should continue the pregnancy and deliver the child.. give it up for adoption so it at least has a chance for a better life.. maybe through that whole experience they will learn to wait..

The only person that "learns" a tuff lesson from this is the KID!!!!! You are simply TRANSFERRING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR FUCK UP TO THE KID!!!! It looks good on paper, in reality it FUCKING SUCKS! I am a Big Brother... go talk to some of these kids who were "given up" and have parents that are NOT ready, you'd think differently.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Baby J's 1st paragraph was the longwinded version of what i was trying to say, +1 for u too :D

[Hulud]

i don't think killing babies b/c you refuse to use BC is right.
that is my whole point on what i was saying in the other thread

[BABY J]

NO GOV'T HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO W/ YOUR BODY... WHERE DOES THIS BEGIN/END? WHATS NEXT YOU CAN'T SMOKE B/C OF LUNG CANCER, YOU CAN'T DRINK B/C OF LIVER DISEASE, YOU CAN'T FUCK B/C STDS... IT AMAZES ME THE WAY PEOPLE THINK SOMETIMES. YOU THINK BY GOVERNING OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL SOLVE SOMETHING... WELL GUESS WHAT IT WON'T. IT WILL ONLY MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE WOMEN DYING IN BACK ALLY WAYS B/C OF A BAD CHOICE NOT NECCESSARILY MADE FOR THEM.

THIS IS SUCH A FUNNY TOPIC B/C I WILL GO TO SAY 99.9% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROLIFE HAVE NEVER ADOPTED A CHILD NOR WILL THEY; THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN DO W/ THEIR OWN BODY. IF MY WIFE WAS GOING TO HAVE ANY ABORTION AND YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH TO ME I WOULD SAY FINE HERE YOU HAVE THE BABY? YA I'M SURE YOU WOULD LOOK AT ME LIKE :eek: :screwy: SO THINK BEFORE YOU CAST THE FIRST STONE.

There is life in everything. Many women use BC which is simply allowing your living cells to die, many choose to swallow consuming the millions of possible lives that could live... yes those are far fetched ideas but where is the end?

If people want so much control over their lives why don't you move to a country full of communist or dictatorship?

I THINK WE NEED TO INSTITUTE LAWS OF STERILIZATION FOR IDIOTS... WOW THAT SHOULD COVER ATLEAST 50% OF OUR POPULATION HAVING CHILDREN. I THINK IT’S DUMB FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE AN UNWANTED CHILD ON MORAL GROUNDS. MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO FEED YOUR KID, MORAL GROUNDS AREN'T GOING TO GIVE A GOOD PARENTAL ROLE FOR YOUR CHILD, MORAL GROUND AREN'T GOING TO RAISE THE KID...

[/END RANT]

-------------------------------------------------

I think being proactive is the best option... there are far better ways to work the abortion angle; obviously i don't think killing babies b/c you refuse to use BC is right. But everyone is entitled to make mistakes. I think anyone that has an abortion not due to rape must have BC inserted tubes in their body not allowing them to have children 3-5 years. This goes for anyone on welfare. I'm sorry but there is a far worse problem.

(sorry for the caps its help to make sure your reading ;) )

WILL YOU MARRY ME AND HAVE MY KID!!! +98JABILLION!!!!!

[collins]

no its not ok.. unless the girl was raped.. then it was not her choice to have sex!

you have unprotected sex.. you deal with std's, babies and so on.. you made your bed no lay in it.. exactly how i feel about it. in rape cases, i understand it. other than that, absolutly not.

[4dmin]

i will burn this country down before they tell me what to do w/ my own body.

[Hulud]

Personally im pro-choice

im all for what the woman wants.

But when a girl says "i wasnt ready for kids" as her excuse c'mon if your going to be that immature maybe you shouldnt be having sex in the first place.

[4dmin]

exactly how i feel about it. in rape cases, i understand it. other than that, absolutly not.

ok so since you want to make choices for other people can we tell you not to have children b/c we think your not ready? if you are so prolife why aren't you adopting 1 of the over half a million orphans?

[ShooterMcGavin]

But when a girl says "i wasnt ready for kids" as her excuse c'mon if your going to be that immature maybe you shouldnt be having sex in the first place.
but u know what's ironic about that statement? if someone is goin to be immature, wouldn't that just be another reason to have sex before they're married?

[ShooterMcGavin]

i will burn this country down before they tell me what to do w/ my own body.
lollerskates, who else thinks paul just got put on a watchlist for that statement? :lmao:

[Hulud]

but u know what's ironic about that statement? if someone is goin to be immature, wouldn't that just be another reason to have sex before they're married?
only if your religious :goodjob:

cause since when do you have to be married to have kids?

so your saying sex before marriage is immature?

[4dmin]

lollerskates, who else thinks paul just got put on a watchlist for that statement? :lmao:

lol no doubt... FBI is knocking at my door... :police:

[Hulud]

lol no doubt... FBI is knocking at my door... :police:
you're fucked LOL

[ShooterMcGavin]

only if your religious :goodjob:

cause since when do you have to be married to have kids?

so your saying sex before marriage is immature?

i don't get it, how did religion and marriage figure into what i said? :thinking: but just for shits and giggles, are u arguing that the chance of one being immature ISN'T greater if they get married early? or are u arguing that sex before marriage is a complete, mature and responsible thing to do?

[Hulud]

i don't get it, how did religion and marriage figure into what i said? :thinking: but just for shits and giggles, are u arguing that the chance of one being immature ISN'T greater if they get married early? or are u arguing that sex before marriage is a complete, mature and responsible thing to do?
ok you missed what i was saying

you brought up marriage and saying that if someone is immature they wull have sex before marriage
and i said that sex before marriage does not mean you are immature


i was saying that in religion it is always considered immature, basically a no-no

[Jaimecbr900]

Alright, if my boy Baby J can go long wind, yall KNOW I can..... :D ;)

As I said earlier, you should not chastise anyone on either side since this is a very personal choice and more importantly a very very difficult one.

Many of you are right: This is not a choice for the indecisive ones. It is a choice that once it's made it WILL impact you regardless of which way you go for the rest of your life.

Before anyone jumps on me, I want to say that although I am very steadfast in my religious beliefs......I haven't always been like that and more importantly I have been through both sides of this debate right along side of some very important people in my life. I have held someone's hand when they had an abortion. I have seen the frustration of parents that can't conceive. I have seen the red tape it takes to adopt a child even when they're available parents dying to have them. I have been in 7 deliveries, although I only have 2 children of my own. So, I have been there and done that. No more details needed.

I can tell yall from my personal first hand experience that people who abort children, no matter what the reason, will in fact be affected forever (unless they have no conscience). It is a VERY difficult decision when the chips are down. It is easy for some people to say what they WOULD do today when he or she is not pregnant. When the time comes, it's very difficult to make that decision for most. Life begins at conception. Taking a life is not an easy choice to make for just about anyone, especially someone who is young and scared.

I can also tell yall from first hand experience that there is no greater reward than being a GOOD parent. Children have a way of changing any and all situations you find yourself in. It is very much hard work. It is very much a lot of sacrifices. It is also very very much worth it. When your own flesh and blood comes out of nowhere for no reason at all and hugs you and kisses you and tells you "I love you Dad..." Tell me just reading that didn't pull at your heart strings, let alone living it. I am blessed with 2 beautiful children. They're not perfect to everyone else, but they are to me. I am very glad we made the decision (one was planned, one was a surprise) to be parents together. It's been a long hard road to hoe, but that's the price of admission.

I can also tell yall that the pain of NOT being able to have your own child is ruthless. I had a family member that tried and tried. Fertility doctors and medicines didn't work. Finally they adopted. They're situation was unique because they adopted a child that was already their family member anyway. They adopted their nephew from the wife's sister who could not and had no business having him in the first place. He is my Godson. He is very well adjusted and will in no way have anything lacking as long as I have any say so. He may never know how close he came to being aborted. It may not even matter because he will be a success. I know it.

I can also tell you that we all need to be more compassionate with others. Children are the only innocent ones. Too often they are made to suffer because we want to save face or because it doesn't fit into our plans. It is your decision to make. Be aware that there are indeed consequences for either decision. Noone's life is ever the same after pregnancy. Sometimes its physical but it is always psychological too. To be a GOOD parent, you have to have the right mindset that now everything is no longer about you only. Noone is truly ever "ready", but some have no business trying yet either. This is one of many things that SHOULD go thru someone's head when engaging in sexual activity.

Are you ready to make the hard choices? Are you ready to accept your position as a parent? Are you able to provide for your child? Are you strong enough to do the right thing, not for you but for the unborn child?

If you can't answer the above questions, then maybe you should be ultra cautious and preventative when having sex.

Notice that I have not divulged my personal position on this. Why? Because I've already made that decision for ME, and I would be happy to sit with anyone and hold their hand at either the abortion clinic or the delivery room. I am not anyone to pass judgement, but I'd be glad to offer support to anyone during one of the most difficult decisions anyone will ever make in their life.

My long :2cents:

[Hulud]

Are you ready to make the hard choices? Are you ready to accept your position as a parent? Are you able to provide for your child? Are you strong enough to do the right thing, not for you but for the unborn child?

If you can't answer the above questions, then maybe you should be ultra cautious and preventative when having sex.
exactly


My long :2cents:
more like :2cents::2cents:

[BABY J]

...

Notice that I have not divulged my personal position on this. Why? Because I've already made that decision for ME, and I would be happy to sit with anyone and hold their hand at either the abortion clinic or the delivery room. I am not anyone to pass judgement, but I'd be glad to offer support to anyone during one of the most difficult decisions anyone will ever make in their life.

My long :2cents:

Damn!! Now I wanna marry you too! Me you and ADMIN can get married! And then we can have some kids. LMAO!!!! + 98BAJILLION for you too!:goodjob:

[Jaimecbr900]

more like :2cents::2cents:

I know you didn't expect anything less, did you????? :D ;)

[Jaimecbr900]

Damn!! Now I wanna marry you too! Me you and ADMIN can get married! And then we can have some kids. LMAO!!!! + 98BAJILLION for you too!:goodjob:

Would that be planned or unplanned????? :lmfao:

Besides, Paul doesn't want any because he's afraid I'd baptise him and teach him about the Bible...... :lmfao: :D

[Hulud]

I know you didn't expect anything less, did you????? :D ;)
not at all :D

[4dmin]

Would that be planned or unplanned????? :lmfao:

Besides, Paul doesn't want any because he's afraid I'd baptise him and teach him about the Bible...... :lmfao: :D

if we got married we'd be muslim and you'd walk 2 steps behind me jaime :lmfao:


don't make wayne brady choke a bitch! :no:

[BABY J]

LOL

[Jaimecbr900]

if we got married we'd be muslim and you'd walk 2 steps behind me jaime :lmfao:

Actually, that would probably be true because IF I was married to you.....I wouldn't want you anywhere near anything BEHIND me...... ;) :D

[ShooterMcGavin]

ok you missed what i was saying

you brought up marriage and saying that if someone is immature they wull have sex before marriage
and i said that sex before marriage does not mean you are immature


i was saying that in religion it is always considered immature, basically a no-no

how'd and where did i bring marriage into it? :confused: and in no way did i say that if someone is immature they will have sex before marriage, that has nothing to do with it. i was simply stating, from where u said that those that are immature ought not to be having sex, that the chances are good that if they're immature and can't handle the consequences that sex brings, they're also probably immature to the point where they won't consider even consider that anyway.

[HalfBaked]

I'd want an abortion under these circumstances...

-I was really ugly.
-I found out my kid was going to come out with palsy, down syndrome, or austism.

[Hulud]

how'd and where did i bring marriage into it?:confused:
heres a quote of yours from post #30

but u know what's ironic about that statement? if someone is goin to be immature, wouldn't that just be another reason to have sex before they're married?
thats where you brought marriage into it

and in no way did i say that if someone is immature they will have sex before marriage, that has nothing to do with it.
thats where i misunderstood whatn you typed

i was simply stating, from where u said that those that are immature ought not to be having sex, that the chances are good that if they're immature and can't handle the consequences that sex brings, they're also probably immature to the point where they won't consider even consider that anyway.
consider getting pregnant?

[ShooterMcGavin]

heres a quote of yours from post #30

thats where you brought marriage into it



i stand corrected, although i think i meant to just put something in there to demonstrate that they're too young to have sex AND think of the consequences.



consider getting pregnant?

yes

[Hulud]

yes
thats my point if they are too immature to understand that you can get pregnant they should not be having sex, they should go to sex ed

[ShooterMcGavin]

dammit dude, ur not understanding me. if they are too immature to understand the consequences, CHANCES ARE, they're also too immature to care about being abstinent.

[Hulud]

dammit dude, ur not understanding me. if they are too immature to understand the consequences, CHANCES ARE, they're also too immature to care about being abstinent.
its about fucking time you stopped beating around the bish and actually said what you meant :D jk

but ok then they should just be removed from the gene pool and save us all money

[BABY J]

He said that... LONG time ago. Yall are just missing each other.

[Hulud]

He said that... LONG time ago. Yall are just missing each other.
yea i guessed that

[ShooterMcGavin]

but ok then they should just be removed from the gene pool and save us all money
could not agree more :goodjob: so go head, step up to the plate and get removed since u couldn't even figure out what i was trying to tell u :D lol

[collins]

ok so since you want to make choices for other people can we tell you not to have children b/c we think your not ready? if you are so prolife why aren't you adopting 1 of the over half a million orphans?

paul, if it comes to the point where i'm ready for kids, and if i cant have one, then you're damn right i'm looking into adoption. man you're missing what i'm saying... i'm pro choice.... but what many people forget is that jst because they're pro choice doesnt mean they're pro abortion. i agree that certain circumstances it is understandable, ie rape. after that, i said "absolutly not" when i guess i should've been more specific.... i'm not telling you what to do, i'm merely saying that i ABSOLUTLY do NOT support it. do what you do, as you have your own opinions about it (as do i). sure, you can tell me what to do, but that doesnt mean i'm going to do it, and that would be my CHOICE.

[kelly marie]

lol this thread was intended for peoples opinions.. not to point out where you thing im wrong.. so thank you wayner and baby j..

i bet none of you have had to give a child up for adoption.. and i havent either.. i have never been pregnant.. and i would keep the child if i became preggo.. however if you are a crack head that gets pregnant please tell me how in the heck you would be able to care for a child? why not go to an agency that INTERVIEWS potential parents and actually goes to the home and observes the lifestyle of the applicants.. yall we are not stuck in 1970's where any bob, joe or nancy can adopt a child.. its a process.. months and months go into seeking the perfect family for each child (in most cases) yea who knows.. something could happen and it not be a good family.. but IMO if i were addicted to any form of drugs.. or what have you and i delievered a child knowing i couldnt care for it i would want it to go to a good home.. where it was almost guarenteed a warm place to sleep and at least 3 meals a day..

i hate knowing there are children stuck in foster homes.. that kills me.. no child should ever have to be put through that.. but if you know damn good and well that you can not provide for that child the best way you can.. then please for the love of god.. give them a chance at a better life..

[4dmin]

paul, if it comes to the point where i'm ready for kids, and if i cant have one, then you're damn right i'm looking into adoption. man you're missing what i'm saying... i'm pro choice.... but what many people forget is that jst because they're pro choice doesnt mean they're pro abortion. i agree that certain circumstances it is understandable, ie rape. after that, i said "absolutly not" when i guess i should've been more specific.... i'm not telling you what to do, i'm merely saying that i ABSOLUTLY do NOT support it. do what you do, as you have your own opinions about it (as do i). sure, you can tell me what to do, but that doesnt mean i'm going to do it, and that would be my CHOICE.

that isn't prochoice... CHOICE is the key word... womens right to choose... if your saying your only ok w/ abortions for rape victims only then obviously there isn't much of a choice is there you've already made up your mind only rape victims should have it... get my drift.

and again as i stated earlier those who are impending their thoughts on others don't have the balls to back up their words... i just asked you if you would adopt... you can adopt right this second there are children floating from home to home... yet i don't see you doing anything about it. so you want to voice an opinion w/o action. that my friend that is a weak foot to stand on. :goodjob:

[BABY J]

lol this thread was intended for peoples opinions.. not to point out where you thing im wrong.. so thank you wayner and baby j..



Pointing out that I THINK that you are wrong IS my opinion.



...why not go to an agency that INTERVIEWS potential parents and actually goes to the home and observes the lifestyle of the applicants.. yall we are not stuck in 1970's where any bob, joe or nancy can adopt a child.. its a process.. months and months go into seeking the perfect family for each child (in most cases) yea who knows.. something could happen and it not be a good family..


See. You are an example of some1 who LOVES what things look like ON PAPER, but have a problem seeing REALITY in America!!!! THE SYSTEM IS BROKE!!!! ARE YOU LISTENING??? Would you like me to post the odds for a kid who is NOT an infant getting adopted? Do you want to see the NUMBERS of adoptees that have to be removed from the SAME homes of the people that shined in the interview? Don't YOU wear "your good shoes" when YOU interview for a job?? And when you get home you kick 'em off and never see then again until you NEED them right?

PLEASE tell me how foster home to foster home is a better life. I am simply one of those people who uses my BRAIN and WILL make those tough decisions. If I knew my dog ( I don't have a dog) was gonna get hit by a car and die tomorrow at noon, I'd "take him for a ride" w/ me and the shotgun today. That's just me. I would bear that cross of burden before letting my dog have to "live" w/ what may happen tomorrow under the wheel of some beer truck.


but IMO if i were addicted to any form of drugs.. or what have you and i delievered a child knowing i couldnt care for it i would want it to go to a good home.. where it was almost guarenteed a warm place to sleep and at least 3 meals a day..


Who is to say that said drug addiction is gonna produce a kid w/ underdeveloped brain or no motor functions? I can go on. In your example what have you done NOW??



i hate knowing there are children stuck in foster homes.. that kills me.. no child should ever have to be put through that.. but if you know damn good and well that you can not provide for that child the best way you can.. then please for the love of god.. give them a chance at a better life..

Some of them have the best life ever. But most do not. What you are not understanding that "providing the best you can" makes YOU feel good. EVERY project mom in Compton feels self-assured knowing that they are doing "the best they can." But what u are not realizing is, that when kids are brought into the world under these pretenses that "the best you can" may not cut it FOR THE KID.

It's like people who make excuses about shit. An excuse ONLY WORKS FOR THE PERSON WHO IS GIVING IT! IT DOES NOT HELP THE OTHER PERSON!!! "Well Baby J, sorry your car won't be ready as promised... we are understaffed." That guy drives HIS car home to his wife and kids and feels good about his day, expecting me to "understand" his excuse... where I may be WALKING to work and no means to get my kid to the daycare.

[4dmin]

lol this thread was intended for peoples opinions.. not to point out where you thing im wrong.. so thank you wayner and baby j..

i bet none of you have had to give a child up for adoption.. and i havent either.. i have never been pregnant.. and i would keep the child if i became preggo.. however if you are a crack head that gets pregnant please tell me how in the heck you would be able to care for a child? why not go to an agency that INTERVIEWS potential parents and actually goes to the home and observes the lifestyle of the applicants.. yall we are not stuck in 1970's where any bob, joe or nancy can adopt a child.. its a process.. months and months go into seeking the perfect family for each child (in most cases) yea who knows.. something could happen and it not be a good family.. but IMO if i were addicted to any form of drugs.. or what have you and i delievered a child knowing i couldnt care for it i would want it to go to a good home.. where it was almost guarenteed a warm place to sleep and at least 3 meals a day..

i hate knowing there are children stuck in foster homes.. that kills me.. no child should ever have to be put through that.. but if you know damn good and well that you can not provide for that child the best way you can.. then please for the love of god.. give them a chance at a better life..

here is what i still don't understand you want to voice your opinions of pro life on others to follow yet you turn your back on children rotting in orphanages :thinking: i don't get how you can point a finger like your out to save their world yet look the other way.

many people who make these statements have never had to face the downsides of having a child. its easy to say hey just put your life at risk for a life you don't want... that would be playing russian roulette w/ your life. having to deal w/ giving up a child and/or meeting a child you gave up is just as hard. i can't see where people can try to decide for others whats best for them w/o walking a day in there shoes.

[kelly marie]

i will never abort or give my child up for adoption.. so you can just stop right there.. its my f'ing opinion.. you choose to see things differently.. thats life.. just b/c you are writing 8 paragraphs doesnt mean my feelings will change..

to me i dont see murder as being "the right thing to do"

you have sex.. unprotected.. you get pregnant with a human being.. growing inside you.. you are KILLING a person.. i dont care if it cant hear, talk, smell or feel anything.. its murder in my eyes

its funny how this is all men saying this.. you have not idea what its like to have a tiny little person growing inside you.. depending on you and your body for survival..

so yea thats all.. i have voiced my opinion.. stop trying to point out what i say.. its my opinion.. my choice

[kelly marie]

if i knew i could support a child right now.. i would.. i would love to adopt an know that i have helped save a person.. but i cant.. im not in a place to do so.. so why would i bring someone into my life and not be able to provide the upmost care to it?

[4dmin]

i will never abort or give my child up for adoption.. so you can just stop right there.. its my f'ing opinion.. you choose to see things differently.. thats life.. just b/c you are writing 8 paragraphs doesnt mean my feelings will change..

to me i dont see murder as being "the right thing to do"

you have sex.. unprotected.. you get pregnant with a human being.. growing inside you.. you are KILLING a person.. i dont care if it cant hear, talk, smell or feel anything.. its murder in my eyes

its funny how this is all men saying this.. you have not idea what its like to have a tiny little person growing inside you.. depending on you and your body for survival..

so yea thats all.. i have voiced my opinion.. stop trying to point out what i say.. its my opinion.. my choice

dont' get all pissy b/c people have a difference of opinion than you... thats what makes a discussion. so you would rather see women dead babies in dumpsters and women dying in shady motels b/c proper healthcare shouldn't be provided to them if they want abortions?

[4dmin]

if i knew i could support a child right now.. i would.. i would love to adopt an know that i have helped save a person.. but i cant.. im not in a place to do so.. so why would i bring someone into my life and not be able to provide the upmost care to it?

exactly so how can you force someone to do the same?

[BABY J]

i will never abort or give my child up for adoption.. so you can just stop right there.. its my f'ing opinion.. you choose to see things differently.. thats life.. just b/c you are writing 8 paragraphs doesnt mean my feelings will change..

I'm guessing this is to me... I can careless about changing your opinion. That's not my job. LOL. But this is a DEBATE, expect to be "debateded". :)



its funny how this is all men saying this.. you have not idea what its like to have a tiny little person growing inside you.. depending on you and your body for survival..

And you do? You've never been prego! LOL. Furthermore, you are not seeing as many women post b/c there are LOTS of women on here who had had abortion(s) and want to put it behind them. They are more worried about what people like YOU will say to them than admitting to themselves that they made what they felt was the best decision. And that's no knowck on you, I am all about letting people do what they want. The problem is, people do things w/out knowing what the hell they are doing, or WHY. :) You're still kool peeps... we just happen to disagree... no harm done sweetie.


so yea thats all.. i have voiced my opinion.. stop trying to point out what i say.. its my opinion.. my choice

That's good. Way to stick to your guns. Do this for me. Go home, write up the list of every guys you have been with. Imagine getting prego THE FIRST TIME by each one, and then tell me what you think you would have done in each instance "knowing what you knew THEN, not what you know now."

[kelly marie]

I'


That's good. Way to stick to your guns. Do this for me. Go home, write up the list of every guys you have been with. Imagine getting prego THE FIRST TIME by each one, and then tell me what you think you would have done in each instance "knowing what you knew THEN, not what you know now." i practice safe sex.. i dont want babies.. yet!

[4dmin]

i practice safe sex.. i dont want babies.. yet!

only safe sex is no sex! :goodjob:

[kelly marie]

oooo 10,000 posts.. lol

guys im not getting pissy.. im a fiesty girl.. i type what i feel.. im not hating on anyone.. but i dont want to feel like im being ganged up on.. thats not fair.. every post i've made has been torn apart.. ah well.. :)

[kelly marie]

only safe sex is no sex! :goodjob: that is the truth!!

[BABY J]

i practice safe sex.. i dont want babies.. yet!

Nice copout! :) There are women who have gotten prego on the pill/safe sex. Just do the experiment please w/ your list of guys that you have been with.

[BABY J]

And with a booty like yours, this FORUM should be the least of your worries as far as getting ganged up on.... LOL. :idb: Hell I even admire the fact that you are sticking to your guns.

[kelly marie]

i have been lucky enough not to get pregnant.. i am thankful of that.. i do know girls who have been preggo and made the decision not to keep that child.. as much as i hated the fact she was doing it i was still supportive of her.. she makes her own decisions.. i know numerous girls who are young.. and kept the baby.. and before they were preggo they had soooo many problems.. like drugs.. money and all that stuff.. they found out they were expecting and COMPLETELY did a 180 with their life..

i was engaged about three years ago.. had a baby scare.. then found out he was cheating.. so we broke up and i cant tell you how many pregnancy tests i took.. i would have kept the child.. it was my responsibility even though i was only 21..

but everyone feels differently.. thats the beauty of diversity!!

[BABY J]

Wanna have another pregnancy scare? Let's do dinner! LOL



..


Just kidding. I think.

[kelly marie]

lol shoooo i gotta man!! hahahhaha

[BABY J]

I know. I was just messing with you silly.

[ShooterMcGavin]

lol this thread was intended for peoples opinions.. not to point out where you thing im wrong.. so thank you wayner and baby j..

i bet none of you have had to give a child up for adoption.. and i havent either.. i have never been pregnant.. and i would keep the child if i became preggo.. however if you are a crack head that gets pregnant please tell me how in the heck you would be able to care for a child? why not go to an agency that INTERVIEWS potential parents and actually goes to the home and observes the lifestyle of the applicants.. yall we are not stuck in 1970's where any bob, joe or nancy can adopt a child.. its a process.. months and months go into seeking the perfect family for each child (in most cases) yea who knows.. something could happen and it not be a good family.. but IMO if i were addicted to any form of drugs.. or what have you and i delievered a child knowing i couldnt care for it i would want it to go to a good home.. where it was almost guarenteed a warm place to sleep and at least 3 meals a day..

i hate knowing there are children stuck in foster homes.. that kills me.. no child should ever have to be put through that.. but if you know damn good and well that you can not provide for that child the best way you can.. then please for the love of god.. give them a chance at a better life..
kelly i didn't post to prove u or anyone else wrong, was just simply stating my beliefs in contrary to urs and others' beliefs, if u took offense, my apologies as none was intended.

as far as what u had to say, sure it makes some sort of sense. but being that u or i aren't crackheads, how do we know what a crackhead WOULD do vs what they should do (which is what u outlined). crackheads have been known to do just about anything to get THEMSELVES a fix. in their mind, feeding the addiction is #1, anything else is just whatever. what makes u think a crackhead would first off, take care of themselves during pregnancy to where they could even give birth to a healthy enough of a child to live, and secondly, go through the trouble of finding help to be able to give up their child for adoption? what u stated just doesn't seem logical as to what a drug addict would do...

[kelly marie]

waynerrrrrrr!! it was just an example..

[ShooterMcGavin]

It's like people who make excuses about shit. An excuse ONLY WORKS FOR THE PERSON WHO IS GIVING IT! IT DOES NOT HELP THE OTHER PERSON!!! "Well Baby J, sorry your car won't be ready as promised... we are understaffed." That guy drives HIS car home to his wife and kids and feels good about his day, expecting me to "understand" his excuse... where I may be WALKING to work and no means to get my kid to the daycare.

best goddamn analogy i've heard about anything in a while, mad props, would +1 again but i already did :tongue:

[ShooterMcGavin]

that is the truth!!

and therein lies part of the dilemma, what if u were practicing safe sex and then had an "accident"? is that any more reason for an abortion to be ok in ur eyes?

[kelly marie]

no.. murder is not ever ok to me

[ShooterMcGavin]

no.. murder is not ever ok to me
ok didn't think so, just wanted to check though since some of what u had said made it seem otherwise :goodjob:

[BABY J]

no.. murder is not ever ok to me

Capital punishment --> do u believe in it?

[ShooterMcGavin]

Capital punishment --> do u believe in it?
:offtopic: :tongue1:

[kelly marie]

that is going into a WHOLE other topic

[BABY J]

Just seeing what she REALLY believes in, that's all. She said "murder" is never okay. Cap punishment, stopping life support, etc.

[kelly marie]

an unborn child being killed b/c of an adult (adult meaning someone old enough to put a penis in a vagina) is not ok..

a grown adult killing/raping or whatever they do to be put in a maxium security prision w/o chance of parole is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different if they are convicted.. and get the death penalty

[BABY J]

But MURDER = MURDER right?:rolleyes: What's the difference?

[kelly marie]

thats right.. but a unborn baby has no say in if they get killed.. however if an adult chooses to end another persons life... they should suffer.. dont ya think?

if someone went on a killing rampage right.. and (god forbid) someone you knew was killed.. a family member.. close friend.. whatever.. and you knew that individual was going to sit in jail for the rest of their life.. you would be ok with that? i highly doubt it.. they get to work out.. watch tv.. and always have a meal.. so yea.. think about it..

instead of living a regular life of crime.. they sit in jail.. yea jail isnt fun but still

i mean i have never been faced with any of these situations so until you are faced with it you never know how you will deal.. but these are my opinions as a 24 year old right here right now..

[BABY J]

Funny thing is, a lot of those "killing spree" mofos could have been aborted in the same situations that we are talking about. LOL. It's a cycle. A lot of them were "foster home to foster home" kids.

[kelly marie]

oh stop.. thats not fair to say..

[ShooterMcGavin]

oh stop.. thats not fair to say..
it's not, not even to them, but more often than not, statistics don't lie :goodjob:

[kelly marie]

so are you two implying that an adult is who they are b/c of they way they were raised? i'll tell you.. i had an f'ed up childhood.. but i am a (sometimes) saine person.. i have my crazy moments but i would never take that out on anyone.. physically at least..

again.. off topic but i dont think grown adults can use the excuse "i had a bad childhood" forever.. i mean hell.. my dad was a complete asshole.. a horrible man.. grew up w/o him for the majority of my life.. but i dont blame anyone.. i live and learn.. so yes i feel bad for people when they have fucked up things happen to them.. but that does not constitute them killing/hurting people when they grow up.. its not a valid excuse in my book..

some people if abused enough reach their breaking point.. yes i believe that.. but if you are gonna do your research.. do all of it.. not just your side.. b/c im sure there are children who have grown up in normal circumstances with nice homes.. good parents.. never been in trouble.. and one day they snap and go shoot up their school..

[collins]

that my friend that is a weak foot to stand on. :goodjob: no, paul its not a weak foot to stand on. the reason i dont go out and adopt a child right now is because i KNOW i'm not very well qualified to take on the role of a father just yet. thats myself using common sense.

[ShooterMcGavin]

so are you two implying that an adult is who they are b/c of they way they were raised? i'll tell you.. i had an f'ed up childhood.. but i am a (sometimes) saine person.. i have my crazy moments but i would never take that out on anyone.. physically at least..

again.. off topic but i dont think grown adults can use the excuse "i had a bad childhood" forever.. i mean hell.. my dad was a complete asshole.. a horrible man.. grew up w/o him for the majority of my life.. but i dont blame anyone.. i live and learn.. so yes i feel bad for people when they have fucked up things happen to them.. but that does not constitute them killing/hurting people when they grow up.. its not a valid excuse in my book..

some people if abused enough reach their breaking point.. yes i believe that.. but if you are gonna do your research.. do all of it.. not just your side.. b/c im sure there are children who have grown up in normal circumstances with nice homes.. good parents.. never been in trouble.. and one day they snap and go shoot up their school..

absolutely, i think one's upbringing speaks volumes about the way they are when they've grown up. of course, that in no way says it's not POSSIBLE for regular ppl who have experienced a wonderful childhood to go psycho. and once again, we're pointing out statistics, there aren't "sides" to a statistic, for every 70% (made up numbers) of kids w/a bad childhood who commit crimes, there is that other side (30%) of those that make something out of their lives. but like baby j was saying, why stack the odds against someone so they have to work at least twice as hard to get to the same place? that's not fair.

[{X}Echo419]

if the guy dosen't want her to have the baby and she does then he should be exempt from chlid support. but he should not have visitation rights after birth.

I used to be prolife but after spending some time in Atl traffic I changed my mind.

[ShooterMcGavin]

if the guy dosen't want her to have the baby and she does then he should be exempt from chlid support. but he should not have visitation rights after birth.
wow are u kidding me? assholes all over the world would come to ur door to thank u if u got this put through... :screwy:

[{X}Echo419]

wow are u kidding me? assholes all over the world would come to ur door to thank u if u got this put through... :screwy:

maybe.

and bitches that lie about someone being the father and sluts everywhere would throw shit @ my house.

besides if a woman decided to keep the baby she would be able to keep that "asshole" out of her life and the life of the child he didn't want. :goodjob:

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^she can still keep him out of her life WHILE getting child support?

[{X}Echo419]

^^^she can still keep him out of her life WHILE getting child support?

so if a woman doesn't want to have a child it's ok. but if a man dosen't want it that's NOT ok? bullshit

not that I would ever do that. it's just my opinion.

[ShooterMcGavin]

so if a woman doesn't want to have a child it's ok. but if a man dosen't want it that's NOT ok? bullshit

not that I would ever do that. it's just my opinion.

not going into specifics about what's ok and not ok for either party but just let me ask u this. ultimately, whose body does the baby come out of? don't just answer this rhetorical question, think about the answer.

[{X}Echo419]

not going into specifics about what's ok and not ok for either party but just let me ask u this. ultimately, whose body does the baby come out of? don't just answer this rhetorical question, think about the answer.

sure, it's ultimately her decision to have the baby or not. but afterall 50% of that baby's DNA is the man's. shouldn't men have some form of rights?
since women aren't supposed to be in combat M.O.S's in the military does that mean they shouldn't have a say in whether or not we go to war? that would be :screwy:

think of it like this; if you put a dollar in a soda machine and a soda comes out. who does that soda belong to? you or the machine? :yes:

[ShooterMcGavin]

sure, it's ultimately her decision to have the baby or not. but afterall 50% of that baby's DNA is the man's. shouldn't men have some form of rights?

yep, a man has 100% right to know and decide who/what he's sticking his dick into.


think of it like this; if you put a dollar in a soda machine and a soda comes out. who does that soda belong to? you or the machine? :yes:

quit stealing other ppls lines w/o giving proper reference, that's borderline plagiarism right there :D

[BABY J]

In a way I say I agree w/ Echo. A lot of women HAVE the kids these days b/c they KNOW if he is working that they can stick him. PLENTY of man pretend to want the woman to beat child support. It's a reality. I bet if there was a law where if the man doesn't want the kid then they could sign away all rights and beat support that a lot more women would think atwice about keeping the kid. LOL. I know that'd never fly... I'd just be happy if support was ALWAYS based on both parent's income, not just the mans. And if SUPPORT was money xferred to a "credit card" and I can log in online and see EXACTLY what is being purchased w/ the money. At about 240 a week for support, I KNOW I am being raped... initial costs of having kid that makes sense. But @ 2 years old I know it doesn't take 960 a week to "support" raising my daughter. Oh well.

[ShooterMcGavin]

In a way I say I agree w/ Echo. A lot of women HAVE the kids these days b/c they KNOW if he is working that they can stick him.
once again that goes to the whole right (and responsibility) of knowing exactly who/what ur stickin. if u have even the slightest doubt they will fuck u over and still choose to hit it, then u are relinquishing ur right to complain about the burdens and unfairness of child support in the future.

[BABY J]

yep, a man has 100% right to know and decide who/what he's sticking his dick into. :D

You are AGREEING to the sex... not the kid if something goes wrong. No matter how you look at it, a kid is a MISTAKE when it is unplanned. I am a mistake... my dad surely wasn't thiking "hey, let's have a kid," and neither was my mom. And me, well let's just say when I make a mistake I FIX it and learn from it. Had my parents did this I'd never know the difference. There some kool things here on Earth every now and then, but there's some BS too... I really wouldn't have missed out on much. LOL. One could argue that "you know the risks" but that doesn't cut it when you are talking a COMPLETELY new person being brought into the world. I guess I am bitter and biased, but I still think I can offer neutral thoughts on the subject.

[BABY J]

once again that goes to the whole right (and responsibility) of knowing exactly who/what ur stickin. if u have even the slightest doubt they will fuck u over and still choose to hit it, then u are relinquishing ur right to complain about the burdens and unfairness of child support in the future.

You can't think for some1 else. ANY1 is capable of ANYTHING, including the gf you have right now. (if u have one)

[ShooterMcGavin]

You are AGREEING to the sex... not the kid if something goes wrong. No matter how you look at it, a kid is a MISTAKE when it is unplanned. I am a mistake... my dad surely wasn't thiking "hey, let's have a kid," and neither was my mom. And me, well let's just say when I make a mistake I FIX it and learn from it. Had my parents did this I'd never know the difference. There some kool things here on Earth every now and then, but there's some BS too... I really wouldn't have missed out on much. LOL. One could argue that "you know the risks" but that doesn't cut it when you are talking a COMPLETELY new person being brought into the world. I guess I am bitter and biased, but I still think I can offer neutral thoughts on the subject.

doesn't matter, we're both intelligent enough to know what the sex could very well lead to, protected sex or not. i mean honestly this boils down to the simple shit that hulud and i were arguing about, if u are not able to recognize and fully comprehend what sex can net u, then i guess ur SOL when the girl ends up pregnant.

[ShooterMcGavin]

You can't think for some1 else. ANY1 is capable of ANYTHING, including the gf you have right now. (if u have one)

absolutely, couldn't agree more, which once again brings me back to the fact that u better know damn well (and have thought over and accepted the possiblity of a "mistake") what ur getting into (no pun intended). :goodjob:

[Hulud]

think of it like this; if you put a dollar in a soda machine and a soda comes out. who does that soda belong to? you or the machine? :yes:
that analogy does not work buddy

cause it takes 2 people to make a baby, but you can get a can out of a soda with out a dollar

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^not necessarily, what about JESUS? :lmfao:

[Jaimecbr900]

To be honest, I actually agree with Echo and Baby J.

Women have 100% right continue or terminate a pregnancy. Men have 0% rights when it comes down to it.

There is going to be a case coming up real soon that will undoubtedly get National attention that addresses this exact issue.

There is a man (can't remember where) that throughly discussed with his GF at the time that he DID NOT want to be a dad. SHE told him that she had a disease that hindered her from getting pregnant AND she was on the pill. We all know what happened. She GOT pregnant. He is now claiming that exact same thing Echo brought up. He is saying that he TOLD her specifically that he did NOT want to be a father now and SHE assured him it was NOT possible according to her doctors. NOW she is suing him for child support of course and he is fighting it. He has never seen the child, doesn't want to see the child, doesn't want to support her, and pretty much said he's being forced to be a father against his will.

Personally, I think the man has a point.

His attorneys brought up the exact points Baby J brought up. If a man expresses IN THE BEGINNING his wishes and the mate is in aggreement, why should it fall upon ONE person to pay child support on a child they never wanted. The laws right now have NO provisions to exempt fathers in situations like this.

Does this open up some ugly doors? Oh yeah. But does it give men a say so equal to women? Absolutely.

The ironic thing is that even with all the uproar about this possibly opening the door to dead beat dads to let them off the hook......it happens every single day anyway. How many times do we not see that anyway? "My baby's daddy aint around...", "His father aint around....", "His father's in jail..."???? Dead beat dads will be dead beat dads regardless of laws IMO. Once you accept paternity of a child, it's a done deal. BUT if you never wanted to be a father and you expressed that and you took precautions against it and then you are FORCED to be a father......I don't think that is anymore fair than anything else.

It's a sticky situation (no pun intended :D ), but I think it's about time men had some rights too.

[BABY J]

^ Now I don't wanna marry Paul. Just you and only you. And I won't make you walk behind me either. LOL

[Hulud]

^^^not necessarily, what about JESUS? :lmfao:
i dont believe in bedtime stories :D

[C22H19N3O4]

His case was thrown out.

SOURCE (http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/NEWS01/607190341/1001/news)


Judge tosses out lawsuit from man contesting child support

Associated Press


"A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit filed by a men's rights group on behalf of a Saginaw County man who said he shouldn't have to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter.

U.S. District Judge David Lawson in Bay City ruled Monday that Matthew Dubay's suit was frivolous and ordered him to pay attorney fees to the state.

Dubay, 25, of Saginaw Township, had said his ex-girlfriend, Lauren Wells, knew he didn't want to have a child and she assured him she couldn't get pregnant because of a medical condition.

He argued that if a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood.

But Lawson disagreed and rejected Dubay's argument that Michigan's paternity law violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

"The fundamental flaw in Dubay's claim is that he fails to see that the state played no role in the conception or birth of the child in this case, or in the decisions that resulted in the birth of the child," Lawson wrote.

The National Center for Men in Old Bethpage, N.Y. - which prepared the suit - nicknamed it "Roe v. Wade for Men" because it involves the issue of male reproductive rights.

Dubay sued the Saginaw County prosecutor and Wells in March, contesting an order to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to Wells.

Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox later intervened in the case and argued for its dismissal.

"If chivalry is not dead, its viability is gravely imperiled by the plaintiff in this case," Lawson wrote.

Dubay earlier acknowledged the suit was a long shot.

A message seeking comment was left with his lawyer after work hours Tuesday"


I'm going to research the filing in Pacer. It's nice to read the actual filing.

[ShooterMcGavin]

i dont believe in bedtime stories :D
rofl, i was waiting for something along those lines :lmao:

regardless though, what i said is a valid pt for MANY ppl :D

[Hulud]

rofl, i was waiting for something along those lines :lmao:

regardless though, what i said is a valid pt for MANY ppl :D
but still even if they believe that, it happened how long ago?


over 2000 years ago so its not a common occurance ;) haha

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^now ur just backtracking :tongue1:

[Jaimecbr900]

^ Now I don't wanna marry Paul. Just you and only you. And I won't make you walk behind me either. LOL

:lmfao:

Look, I'm a proud Dad. I don't have any issues and will never have any issues with supporting my children. Hell, I try and support my Godchildren and I don't have to do that.

My point is that this issue doesn't even concern me really. There is no way in hell that I could ever or would ever say that my kids aren't mine and I didn't want them, so for me it's a moot point if there are any changes in laws or not.

But I do understand that there are some men out there that clearly get trapped into supporting children they either A: didn't want or B: have no business supporting. It's not fair to give ONLY women the right to terminate a pregnancy. Right now a MAN can NOT MAKE a woman deliver a child SHE doesn't want. She can just march down to the abortion clinic and do as SHE wishes. What about the man? What about if HE wanted the child? Could he legally MAKE her deliver? NOPE. Why is the mother the ONLY one consulted about it? It took TWO to make the baby, didn't it? So why is it that it requires only ONE to terminate it? Furthermore, it took TWO to make it....why does it take ONE to support it????

It would be very good to have mothers be accountable to PAYING fathers IMO.

I know of a woman (using that term loosely) that receives child support on a son she hardly even raises. She's been in jail a bunch of times, been remarried 2x's (once for money literally), and there's been a history of domestic violence (with husband #2) in the home. My friend STILL pays her child support for his son. He's tried thru the courts to gain full custody of his son out that environment.....and guess what?......they would NOT give it to him. Mother been in jail a ton, multiple marriages, unstable home environment, unstable everything.....he is super stable, super reliable, super everything.......and the courts WILL NOT give him custody of his son that he STILL pays child support FOR each and every month.

You wanna talk about unfair......that's Exhibit A.

[BABY J]

There are 3 more cases like this in the nation right now. It WILL happen... if men got together and nagged like women do for THEIR rights, it'd happen pretty quick too. :)

[Hulud]

^^^now ur just backtracking :tongue1:
thats all you got? :crazy:

[ShooterMcGavin]

thats all you got? :crazy:

that was a better and more valid point that this lame sorry ass excuse for a rebuttal you just posted ;)

[Hulud]

that was a better and more valid point that this lame sorry ass excuse for a rebuttal you just posted ;)
your point? :taun:

[ShooterMcGavin]

your point? :taun:
that u my friend, are a fucking moron :chuckles:

[Hulud]

that u my friend, are a fucking moron :chuckles:
orly?

[ShooterMcGavin]

fo sho w/o a doubt :goodjob: :D

[{X}Echo419]

once again that goes to the whole right (and responsibility) of knowing exactly who/what ur stickin. if u have even the slightest doubt they will fuck u over and still choose to hit it, then u are relinquishing ur right to complain about the burdens and unfairness of child support in the future.

same thing applies to the female to. She knows that She can get pregnant if She has sex and She know She would have to decide on an abortion or not. so IMHO She is just if not more guilty than the man for "sticking his dick in her" :2cents:

besides; would you tell your friends, "Dude I would have nailed her but she might have gotten pregnant and sued me for child support."? I doubt it. they would think you're gehy.

[BABY J]

The bottom line is, women CHOOSE who they want to have a kid by. The "100% I WOULD NOT HAVE AN ABORTION" women are scared to take my "test" and imagine getting prego by every man they have been with... b/c they KNOW there are some on the list that they would simply NOT have a baby by. I think most women do what is CONVENIENT for them based on emotions... but try to get all righteous when the subject is brought up. The sad fact is that there are "booty-call babies" out there... and "I could never abort" IN MY OPINION is a sorry excuse to have a whole new life brought into this world under those pretenses.

[ShooterMcGavin]

same thing applies to the female to. She knows that She can get pregnant if She has sex and She know She would have to decide on an abortion or not. so IMHO She is just if not more guilty than the man for "sticking his dick in her" :2cents:

no shit, that's obvious, but sadly for men, the baby comes out of the females body. at this point, she has the final say, plain and simple. i really don't understand what more u have to argue?


besides; would you tell your friends, "Dude I would have nailed her but she might have gotten pregnant and sued me for child support."? I doubt it. they would think you're gehy.

irrelevant.

[ShooterMcGavin]

The bottom line is, women CHOOSE who they want to have a kid by. The "100% I WOULD NOT HAVE AN ABORTION" women are scared to take my "test" and imagine getting prego by every man they have been with... b/c they KNOW there are some on the list that they would simply NOT have a baby by. I think most women do what is CONVENIENT for them based on emotions... but try to get all righteous when the subject is brought up. The sad fact is that there are "booty-call babies" out there... and "I could never abort" IN MY OPINION is a sorry excuse to have a whole new life brought into this world under those pretenses.

agreed.

[{X}Echo419]

no shit, that's obvious, but sadly for men, the baby comes out of the females body. at this point, she has the final say, plain and simple. i really don't understand what more u have to argue?



irrelevant.

you should read my 1st post. I'm not arguing whether abortion is right or wrong.

but if both parties are responsible like you agree above than both should have the same rights. seeing how the man cannot Force an abortion he should be able to chose whether or not to be in that childs life. be it emotionally or Financially.

[ShooterMcGavin]

you should read my 1st post. I'm not arguing whether abortion is right or wrong.

but if both parties are responsible like you agree above than both should have the same rights. seeing how the man cannot Force an abortion he should be able to chose whether or not to be in that childs life. be it emotionally or Financially.

yes i realize you're not arguing on the right/wrong of abortions, but you're arguing about how a man should have some say as to whether or not a child is aborted or not. and i've been saying that as long as babies continue to come out of a women's body and not a man's body (which is something i don't see changing anytime soon), then they will still be the ULTIMATE decision maker has to if a baby is born or not.

[{X}Echo419]

yes i realize you're not arguing on the right/wrong of abortions, but you're arguing about how a man should have some say as to whether or not a child is aborted or not. and i've been saying that as long as babies continue to come out of a women's body and not a man's body (which is something i don't see changing anytime soon), then they will still be the ULTIMATE decision maker has to if a baby is born or not.

my point is if he does not want the baby(and both parties ARE responsible for conception) he should be able to "abort" financial responsibility and walk away. since the woman CAN do that.
Not that I would ever do that. I just think it's fare. this would also help check the gold diggers. :D

[DnBmama05]

I didn't know if anyone had brought up exactly how abortion was done in this thread, but I thought I would give just an example of one way abortion is done... and the other ways are pretty much just as graphic... regardless of how early you do an abortion the heart starts to beat very soon after the baby starts to develop. Men seem to speak a lot easier on this subject than women, but it's not YOUR body being probed into - you just don't want the responsibilities and have to dish out child support. The only time I would even consider abortion to be somewhat ok is if it was causing the mother complications that could put her and the baby's life in jeopardy or a rape (and i've even read where some rape victims have kept their children and don't regret it) It seems it would be 10 million times easier to carry a child full term and give it to a willing family that can't have children than to do something like this:

This abortion is also used on mid and late term babies, from 4 to 9 months gestation. Ultrasound is used to identify how the unborn baby is facing in the womb. The abortionist inserts forceps through the cervical canal into the uterus and grasps one of the baby’s legs, positioning the baby feet first, face down (breech position). The child’s body is then pulled out of the birth canal except for the head which is too large to pass through the cervix. The baby is alive, and probably kicking and flailing his legs and arms. The abortionist hooks his fingers over the baby’s shoulders, holding the woman’s cervix away from the baby’s neck. He then jams blunt tipped surgical scissors into the base of the skull and spreads the tips apart to enlarge the wound. A suction catheter is inserted into the baby’s skull and the brain is sucked out. The skull collapses and the baby’s head passes easily through the cervix.

[TIGERJC]

I have seen all the abortion vids out there, thats why I believe that abortion after the 5th or 6th month should not be allowed. I am still pro choice on the subject though.

death is not easy, same thing with life

[BABY J]

... death is not easy, same thing with life

PLUS 150MILLION! Smartest shit in this thread!

[Wurm]

hell yeah it is ok need to do something we gonna end up like japan. With all the little sluts running around with like 10 kids.... Bitch after the first one you knew you was fertile so keep your damn legs closed

[ShooterMcGavin]

I have seen all the abortion vids out there, thats why I believe that abortion after the 5th or 6th month should not be allowed. I am still pro choice on the subject though.

death is not easy, same thing with life

well said, and yeah, even being prochoice i believe aborting later than 5 months is just cruel (unless it's necessary to save the life of the mother).

[LordMDP]

i will burn this country down before they tell me what to do w/ my own body.
but if there is a baby that is conceived in a womens womb-it has seperate DNA and is a seperate person which can not be owned

if you kill him/her-that is murder in my book

its a human being -we're not talkin about just some "tissue" here

remember Lacey Peterson-her husband Scott murder her and his unborn child-guess what-found guilty on 2 counts of murder

once a baby is conceived-thats a human being

[kelly marie]

but if there is a baby that is conceived in a womens womb-it has seperate DNA and is a seperate person which can not be owned

if you kill him/her-that is murder in my book

its a human being -we're not talkin about just some "tissue" here

remember Lacey Peterson-her husband Scott murder her and his unborn child-guess what-found guilty on 2 counts of murder

once a baby is conceived-thats a human being

exactly!

[ShooterMcGavin]

poor peterson, sounds like he really got screwed by the system getting 2 life sentences instead of 1 :rolleyes:

see to me that's just an exception of the law, like the same kind of exception that gets made when certain juveniles get tried as an adult for a crime.

[kelly marie]

so lacy was nine months right.. or right about there.. wayner you think its ok that the baby was killed as well? he commited TWO murders.. that baby was about to be born.. and if i am remembering correctly.. the UNBORN baby was cut out of her stomach.. unless she delivered then he killed her.. i cant remember all the details..

but thats really fucked up if you think thats ok..

edit.. re-reading that i think you were making a joke about the life sentences.. so my bad.. but yea here is a good example of why i believe in capital punishment!

[ShooterMcGavin]

so lacy was nine months right.. or right about there.. wayner you think its ok that the baby was killed as well? he commited TWO murders.. that baby was about to be born.. and if i am remembering correctly.. the UNBORN baby was cut out of her stomach.. unless she delivered then he killed her.. i cant remember all the details..

but thats really fucked up if you think thats ok..

edit.. re-reading that i think you were making a joke about the life sentences.. so my bad.. but yea here is a good example of why i believe in capital punishment!

thnx for rereading and seeing it was more about the law and crime than about abortion. cuz truth is, him killing her and the baby really does not pertain to the discussion of abortion too much. it was a sick and unwarranted act and was beyond cruel, but really doesn't play much into the abortion discussion.

[Jaimecbr900]

I got an email from my aunt in PR just this morning that goes along with this topic. My disclaimer: I have not verified any of this information, but know one of them is true for sure.

__________________________________________________ ___________

2 Questions:

1. If you knew of a pregnant woman that had syphillis, had 7 children, 3 which were deaf, 2 were blind, and 1 that was retarded....would you advice her to abort?

2. You have the opportunity to vote for a global leader. Your choices are:

Candidate A: Has been associated with corrupt politicians, consults astrologers, has 2 lovers (1 of which he allegedly beat), smokes and drinks between 8-10 Martinis per day.

Candidate B: Has been fired from his job 2x, sleeps until noon, smoked drugs while in college, drinks whisky every night, is obese, and is known for his bad temper and aggresiveness.

Candidate C: War hero, vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks only occasionally, doesn't have extramarital affairs, respects women, loves animals, and is very reserved.

Which one would you vote for?

__________________________________________________ ______________



-If you answered "YES" to the pregnant woman aborting the child: You just aborted Ludwig Van Beethoven, one of the world's most prolific composers.

-Voting:

Candidate A: Franklin D. Roosevelt
Candidate B: Winston Churchill
Candidate C: Adolf Hitler

__________________________________________________ ______________

Interesting isn't it? Even if it's not 100% correct (I'm sure someone is going to google this to find out :rolleyes: ), it makes you stop and think for a minute how things should not be JUDGED at face value.

It has been said that Noah's Ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic by professionals...... ;)

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^old, and not sure that it proves anything? lots of serial killers led very average/normal lives, take that BTK guy they just nabbed after all these yrs.

[Jaimecbr900]

^^^old, and not sure that it proves anything? lots of serial killers led very average/normal lives, take that BTK guy they just nabbed after all these yrs.

I'm not trying to sway anyone one way or the other. As I said before, I'll go to support and help anyone regardless of their decision.

I'm just putting stuff out there to let people think about situations from a different angle, maybe a point of view they didn't see before.

[Hulud]

I'm just putting stuff out there to let people think about situations from a different angle, maybe a point of view they didn't see before.
that aint gonna happen on IA, most people think their view is right on everything and wont accept anothers view

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^coming from hulud that's really funny.....:lmao: