is there god w/o the bible?

[4dmin]

is there god w/o the bible? if yes, then what purpose does the bible serve?


Their faith is NOT in the Book itself but in the its Author


Christians do not get their faith from relics

please explain your answer and no BS answering question w/ a question.

[biblethumper]

I do believe that there is a God without the Bible. He has always existed. I also believe that the Bible is there to help us understand why certain things have happened and are to come to happen. The Bible is like a rule book or a text book. You use text books in school to teach you about history or how things come to be. But yes I believe that God does exist without the Bible

[{X}Echo419]

this is a dumb question

[4dmin]

this is a dumb question

i guess if you have a peanut for brain maybe... but kinda like a child growing up in a room w/ no windows who is made to think a rat is a cat and a cat a rat... :goodjob:

ya sounds crazy doesn't it, but the mind is easy to manipulate. black can be white all depends on the perspective.

[metalman]

this is a dumb question

Ding ding...we have a winner! :)

God reveals Himself in the creation all around us, even in the delicate systems of our own bodies etc etc etc

It also true that we all have a sense of God Created within us. Concience, the sense of right and wrong is something we're born with. Its only over time that mankind tends to "numb" that sense to a point where he slips into confusion. God has simply given His Word as instruction, a reminder, a help, and insight into our universe and its purpose, and more specificly as a lamp to light ones path so that we not need to fumble around in darkness or confusion.

Believe it or not, people who have no copy of Scripture have been found worshipping God, the Creator, perhaps not with all the details they might enjoy with having the Bible and the insight it provides but in spirit and truth nonetheless, which is all thats truly required.

Sinful mankind in general however clings to the hope and dream that there is no God and no accountability. That dream will only end up a nitemare.

[4dmin]

God reveals Himself in the creation all around us, even in the delicate systems of our own bodies etc etc etc
again creation is another bibical term, so try again.


Believe it or not, people who have no copy of Scripture have been found worshipping God, the Creator, perhaps not with all the details they might enjoy with having the Bible and the insight it provides but in spirit and truth nonetheless, which is all thats truly required.
really there is complete documentation of a civilization of people who just out of the air started worshiping GOD the christian god? amazing really... can i take my boots off now; its getting deep real deep?

[metalman]

Of course some are so deeply confused and numbed that they are unable to recognize the revealed creative power around them. Call it by any name you wish but its there! ;)

As for the other, if you studied more and criticized less you might already know these things. I only share what I have learned, the fact you havent yet learned it is irellevant and not proof of anything other then you don't know about it.

[4dmin]

As for the other, if you studied more and criticized less you might already know these things. I only share what I have learned, the fact you havent yet learned it is irellevant and not proof of anything other then you don't know about it.

wow if you didn't dodge that question i don't know what that was :thinking: please enlighten all of us w/ your PROOF! bahhh dude you are certainly just grasping at straws now :goodjob: good post you make me laugh.

[metalman]

I think for the time being I will let you dig for that one. Why always continue to spoon feed babies? Let them (you)learn how to eat for themselves. I'll tell you what, why don't you prove that its wrong? Youre always demanding "proof" for everything...put your money with your mouth is! ;)

[babygurl]

I do believe that there is a God without the Bible. He has always existed. I also believe that the Bible is there to help us understand why certain things have happened and are to come to happen. The Bible is like a rule book or a text book. You use text books in school to teach you about history or how things come to be. But yes I believe that God does exist without the Bible


I agree 100% with your post....

[4dmin]

I think for the time being I will let you dig for that one. Why always continue to spoon feed babies? Let them (you)learn how to eat for themselves. I'll tell you what, why don't you prove that its wrong? Youre always demanding "proof" for everything...put your money with your mouth is! ;)

already have and you've already made 2 post that = nothing so i'm doing pretty dayum good.

admin = 2
metalman = 0

maybe you should try the whoreslounge and allow us adults to continue our conversations, i mean if you dont' have anything to add there is no reason for your post. atleast i can invoke question/answer your merely posting for count and nothing else. its amazing you try to act almighty but your acting like a fool right now.

[biblethumper]

I only share what I have learned, the fact you havent yet learned it is irellevant and not proof of anything other then you don't know about it.

If I remember correctly Paul did learn this. Did you not see the part where he said his father is a religious man? Am I correct?

[metalman]

What? Still no proof?????? :D

I know what I have read and seen. If you don't believe it thats fine.

Go ahead...I give reasons and proof all the time in this forum. You rarely give proof for anything...just your opinion of what others give. Go ahead...get some proof for a change :D

[4dmin]

What? Still no proof?????? http://forums.importatlanta.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I know what I have read and seen. If you don't believe it thats fine.

Go ahead...I give reasons and proof all the time in this forum. You rarely give proof for anything...just your opinion of what others give. Go ahead...get some proof for a change http://forums.importatlanta.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

wow your 0/3 now... ouch! Ok let me give proof of something that doesn't exsist... here is what metalman is refering to... i found his proof...

http://www.importatlanta.com/metalman.jpg

^^^ ok see there it is i found metalmans proof... i'm so sorry you were correct, man i guess i need to just research more than asking questions. :goodjob:

[babygurl]

What? Still no proof?????? :D

I know what I have read and seen. If you don't believe it thats fine.

Go ahead...I give reasons and proof all the time in this forum. You rarely give proof for anything...just your opinion of what others give. Go ahead...get some proof for a change :D


How about instead of being a jackass you actually show proof of your findings, why not post up the Scripture, or at least the chapters and pages of your findings. Christians educate rather than put down. And Paul may have his opinons, but it seems to be that he wants to learn. So enlighten him or go away. But you are proving him right about religion rather than trying to educate.

Im sorry but as a Christian your attitude sucks, You are letting your male ego, get in place rather then being an adult, and showing proof.

[biblethumper]

If you need help with the scriptures Metal I can help ya with that. So if they want scripture throw it out to them.

[4dmin]

hey guys you can't use scripture to back up this topic... :goodjob:

remember god w/o the bible? that is the question you can't use something as proof if it doesn't exsist. thanx for the post.

[man]

is there science w/o textbooks and documentation?

[biblethumper]

That there is a good question fc.....


I only mentioned scripture cause babygurl did! heheheheh

[4dmin]

is there science w/o textbooks and documentation?

don't answer a question w/ a question... and YES is the answer. simple you eat you poop. No text needed, yet you just learn anatomy :goodjob: Ok now that i have presented my answer you should do the same.

[metalman]

How about instead of being a jackass you actually show proof of your findings, why not post up the Scripture, or at least the chapters and pages of your findings. Christians educate rather than put down. And Paul may have his opinons, but it seems to be that he wants to learn. So enlighten him or go away. But you are proving him right about religion rather than trying to educate.

Im sorry but as a Christian your attitude sucks, You are letting your male ego, get in place rather then being an adult, and showing proof.

I show & give proof all the time. I post Scripture, historical fact, scientific facts etc etc all the time. Paul (for the most part) doesnt. I am only saying he should for a change. Even Paul has stated that I am a "wealth of knowlege" on matters of theology. Obviously that was because I posted some thoughtful answers and points.
If you dont undertsand that perhaps its because you havent been part of the many lengthy disscussions we've had here where Paul often brought nothing to the table other then his feelings about others proof. He always demands proof but rarely brings any. So....I am saying how it about bringing some for a change. ;)

Am I the only one "obligated" to prove things?? I don't think so. ;)

[babygurl]

That there is a good question fc.....


I only mentioned scripture cause babygurl did! heheheheh

I meant to say in the other post my bad! What can I say I hang around too many blondes!

[Hulud]

Am I the only one "obligated" to prove things?? I don't think so. ;)
when you say theres proof yes ;)

[man]

don't answer a question w/ a question... and YES is the answer. simple you eat you poop. No text needed, yet you just learn anatomy :goodjob: Ok now that i have presented my answer you should do the same.
I didn't attempt to answer your question and you were unsuccessful at answering mine. I would love to see someone learn physics w/o any outside help.

[Hulud]

I didn't attempt to answer your question and you were unsuccessful at answering mine. I would love to see someone learn physics w/o any outside help.
this is off topic but what the hell are those cats doin in your sig? LOLOL

[man]

this is off topic but what the hell are those cats doin in your sig? LOLOL

Rugby, lol

[biblethumper]

Too many blondes eh Babygurl. I hang around with people that have anger issues and cant keep their hands of there other half lol

[babygurl]

Too many blondes eh Babygurl. I hang around with people that have anger issues and cant keep their hands of there other half lol


there are called love taps! HAHAHA

[Xan]

If all christians ceased to be and all bibles and texts and reminders of "god" as we see him were destroyed then yes. God would be FORGOTTEN because none would remain to talk about him. However, that doesn't change the FACT that there COULD be a God/creator/omnipotent being. Just because you can't physically see something doesn't mean it isn't there. We don't see the wind blow, but we know it's there. We feel it's presense and it has a real, lasting effect on the world around us.

I once heard that God isn't there to explain to us why things happen. Rather he is there to help us when they do. His promise is that he will be there for his followers through thick and thin, hell or high water. I personally feel he is given too much credit, but that's my perogative. You ask for proof that God exists and every Christian you encounter will ask you for proof that he doesn't. As of right now, neither of those questions can be answered. That is why religion is a FAITH based affair.

Lastly, worship cannot come without faith. No one places faith in the Bible period. People place faith in God.

[biblethumper]

Sure they are lol

[babygurl]

If all christians ceased to be and all bibles and texts and reminders of "god" as we see him were destroyed then yes. God would be FORGOTTEN because none would remain to talk about him. However, that doesn't change the FACT that there COULD be a God/creator/omnipotent being. Just because you can't physically see something doesn't mean it isn't there. We don't see the wind blow, but we know it's there. We feel it's presense and it has a real, lasting effect on the world around us.

I once heard that God isn't there to explain to us why things happen. Rather he is there to help us when they do. His promise is that he will be there for his followers through thick and thin, hell or high water. I personally feel he is given too much credit, but that's my perogative. You ask for proof that God exists and every Christian you encounter will ask you for proof that he doesn't. As of right now, neither of those questions can be answered. That is why religion is a FAITH based affair.

Lastly, worship cannot come without faith. No one places faith in the Bible period. People place faith in God.


Very good points...but The words that are in the bible you have faith in Because God wrote them? is that not correct?

[biblethumper]

God didnt write them. He inspired the MEN who wrote them.

[babygurl]

God didnt write them. He inspired the MEN who wrote them.


I stand corrected....

DO you not have faith in the words that God inspired man to write?

[man]

The Bible is a book. End of story.

[biblethumper]

I stand corrected....

DO you not have faith in the words that God inspired man to write?

Yes because God put those word in them. I have faith that the Word is of God!

[babygurl]

The Bible is a book. End of story.


well Duh...

[biblethumper]

Actually the Bible consists of many books.

[man]

Actually the Bible consists of many books.

Doesn't change the fact that it in itself is a book.

book
n.

1. A set of written, printed, or blank pages fastened along one side and encased between protective covers.

[Xan]

Very good points...but The words that are in the bible you have faith in Because God wrote them? is that not correct?

I'm not a Christian and I could care less for the Bible, but some form of God would exist without it. The question this thread is about should pobably be "Does Christianity exist without the Bible?" The answer to that would most definitely be no. All the teachings and stuff that the Christian God passed down are contained within it. As for the Bible being a relic. Don't relics usually have to be one of a kind? Seeing as how the cross is the most well known shape on Earth and the Bible is the most printed and revised book in human history wouldn't that make them a tool of sorts. Besides, the Bible has something to offer to those willing to read it and accept it's teachings. Relics(i.e. meteors, obelisks, statues and shit)offer nothing in the way of enlightenment. Hell, the cross is used primarily for identification.

[metalman]

, the Bible has something to offer to those willing to read it and accept it's teachings. Relics(i.e. meteors, obelisks, statues and shit)offer nothing in the way of enlightenment. .

Bingo!!

Some don't understand that difference and therefore they see the Bible as "old" therefore it is a "relic" and anyone who reads an "old" book is worshiping a "relic"...using a dictionary to arrive at this conclusion rather then an understanding of what worship truly is.

As I explained in painful detail, there is a HUGE difference in accepting good counsel and worshiping the pages upon which that counsel is written.

If my dad wrote and told you how to fix your broken car I bet you'd appreciate that and you might take his advice and benefit from his word but you wouldnt worship the server/book/paper/letter etc where it was written.

[4dmin]

If all christians ceased to be and all bibles and texts and reminders of "god" as we see him were destroyed then yes. God would be FORGOTTEN because none would remain to talk about him. However, that doesn't change the FACT that there COULD be a God/creator/omnipotent being. Just because you can't physically see something doesn't mean it isn't there. We don't see the wind blow, but we know it's there. We feel it's presense and it has a real, lasting effect on the world around us.

I once heard that God isn't there to explain to us why things happen. Rather he is there to help us when they do. His promise is that he will be there for his followers through thick and thin, hell or high water. I personally feel he is given too much credit, but that's my perogative. You ask for proof that God exists and every Christian you encounter will ask you for proof that he doesn't. As of right now, neither of those questions can be answered. That is why religion is a FAITH based affair.

Lastly, worship cannot come without faith. No one places faith in the Bible period. People place faith in God.

i agree no bible no christian god, but there will always be that what if in ones mind... but i disagree that you think you don't have faith in your bible... christians use it to prove christianity all the time you would have to have faith in the scripture to believe it :goodjob: ; which ultimately is gods word if your christian anyway so hence you have faith in god.

[4dmin]

Don't relics usually have to be one of a kind? Seeing as how the cross is the most well known shape on Earth and the Bible is the most printed and revised book in human history wouldn't that make them a tool of sorts. Besides, the Bible has something to offer to those willing to read it and accept it's teachings. Relics(i.e. meteors, obelisks, statues and shit)offer nothing in the way of enlightenment.

NO relics do not neccesarrily have to be one of a kind. a relic is just something that can last the sands of time... the bible is such. there are many religous artifacts(relics) which can be seen/found all over the world and not all are christian... and they do offer enlightenment, if they didn't they would of been disregarded centuries ago and wouldn't be relics today. to say the bible isn't a relic is to discredit the age/history of it.

[Xan]

i agree no bible no christian god, but there will always be that what if in ones mind... but i disagree that you think you don't have faith in your bible... christians use it to prove christianity all the time you would have to have faith in the scripture to believe it :goodjob: ; which ultimately is gods word if your christian anyway so hence you have faith in god.

I'm not a christian though. I believe in a greater being, but that's it. Everything I have I have gotten myself. I live my life according to my terms. The Bible and the commandments are too restrictive for my tastes. That's beside the point though. You just said that having faith in a Bible and having faith in what it says are the same thing when they aren't. Christians have faith in the scripture because it is supposedly handed down by their creator. Having faith in the scriptures written by God is the same as having faith in God himself. The scriptures no matter how you present them will always represent the written word of God. You can't take a relic(lets say that meteor that Muslims worship) and replace it with a marshmallow and call it the same.

[4dmin]

I'm not a christian though. I believe in a greater being, but that's it. Everything I have I have gotten myself. I live my life according to my terms. The Bible and the commandments are too restrictive for my tastes. That's beside the point though..
i never said you were christian i replied to your post.


You just said that having faith in a Bible and having faith in what it says are the same thing when they aren't. Christians have faith in the scripture because it is supposedly handed down by their creator. Having faith in the scriptures written by God is the same as having faith in God himself. The scriptures no matter how you present them will always represent the written word of God.

i'm confused... the bible is scripture if you dont' have faith in the bible then you dont have faith in the scripture inside of the bible. which are the word of god. you need to read the definition of FAITH. we've already agreed w/o the bible you would have no christian faith... ok so if you don't have faith in the bible then you don't have faith. that isn't hard to comprehend.



You can't take a relic(lets say that meteor that Muslims worship) and replace it with a marshmallow and call it the same

umm please expand that doesn't make sense.... no one took the bible and replace it w/ a "marshmallow" and said here is your faith.

[Xan]

NO relics do not neccesarrily have to be one of a kind. a relic is just something that can last the sands of time... the bible is such. there are many religous artifacts(relics) which can be seen/found all over the world and not all are christian... and they do offer enlightenment, if they didn't they would of been disregarded centuries ago and wouldn't be relics today. to say the bible isn't a relic is to discredit the age/history of it.

I have to disagree with you. Relics in a religious sense are meant to be one of a kind. The original written Bible could be a relic. However, as I said before worship of a relic requires faith in the relic itself. Muslims bow down and pray to a meteor. Buddhists bow down and pray to a statue. Christians bow down and pray to God. True Christians are meant to place faith in God and his word not the format it comes in. True Christians are meant to pay homage to God not the Bible.

[Xan]

i never said you were christian i replied to your post.



i'm confused... the bible is scripture if you dont' have faith in the bible then you dont have faith in the scripture inside of the bible. which are the word of god. you need to read the definition of FAITH. we've already agreed w/o the bible you would have no christian faith... ok so if you don't have faith in the bible then you don't have faith. that isn't hard to comprehend.




umm please expand that doesn't make sense.... no one took the bible and replace it w/ a "marshmallow" and said here is your faith.

I'm sorry. The way you worded it sounded like you assumed I was Christian.
The point I was trying to make with my analogy is that you can't really idolize words.

[Xan]

Having faith in the teachings of the Bible and Idolizing the book itself aren't the same thing.

[{X}Echo419]

i guess if you have a peanut for brain maybe... but kinda like a child growing up in a room w/ no windows who is made to think a rat is a cat and a cat a rat... :goodjob:

ya sounds crazy doesn't it, but the mind is easy to manipulate. black can be white all depends on the perspective.

sensitive? hmmm

[4dmin]

I have to disagree with you. Relics in a religious sense are meant to be one of a kind. The original written Bible could be a relic. However, as I said before worship of a relic requires faith in the relic itself. Muslims bow down and pray to a meteor. Buddhists bow down and pray to a statue. Christians bow down and pray to God. True Christians are meant to place faith in God and his word not the format it comes in. True Christians are meant to pay homage to God not the Bible.

NOPE. see you are mistaking worship and faith. those are two different concepts. i never said you have to worship the bible to believe it... you don't bow down to it, but you do have to have faith in the scripture and the text to believe it. i don't see how you can think otherwise... i can pull up a million an 1 post on how "you just have to have faith"... what is one refereing too? the scripture that is in the bible. you believe the text there for you have faith in it.


rel·ic http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Drelic) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (rhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.giflhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifk)
n.

Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared: “Corporal punishment was a relic of barbarism” (Cyril Connolly).
Something cherished for its age or historic interest.
An object kept for its association with the past; a memento.
An object of religious veneration, especially a piece of the body or a personal item of a saint.
or relics A corpse; remains.
^ the bible fits every single one of those... it is nothing but passed on literature of the authors themselves inspired by GOD. that is a relic to which you/i have a copy of today.


faith http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dfaith) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifth)
n.

Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=belief). See Synonyms at trust (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=trust).
Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.
again you have to have faith in the bible to believe what is in it.


wor·ship http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dworship) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (wûrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifshhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifp)
n.

<LI type=a>The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Ardent devotion; adoration.
often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.


i never said you have to worship the bible, but here you go... can you yes? is it done yes.

[4dmin]

Having faith in the teachings of the Bible and Idolizing the book itself aren't the same thing.

I NEVER SAID WORSHIP OR IDOLIZING THE BIBLE. YOU AND METALMAN HAVE SAID THAT. IF YOUR GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION PLEASE QUOTE ME ON THE CURRENT TOPIC AND NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Thanx :goodjob:

and Yes those are to different things.

[4dmin]

sensitive? hmmm

nope maybe you should try joing discussions then posting "THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION" :goodjob:

[{X}Echo419]

O-Snap! I don't care

[babygurl]

nope maybe you should try joinINg discussions then posting "THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION" :goodjob:


fixed it for ya! LOL

[4dmin]

O-Snap! I don't care

then don't be surprised by ones replys :goodjob:

[metalman]

True Christians are meant to pay homage to God not the Bible.

BINGO!!! +100 :goodjob:

[{X}Echo419]

then don't be surprised by ones replys :goodjob:

who said I was suprised?

you're as predictable as the Braves in the playoffs

[4dmin]

who said I was suprised?

you're as predictable as the Braves in the playoffs

ok. well thanx for playing. :goodjob:

[biblethumper]

Oh goodness lol

[MajinB]

ok lets take a look back in history when it matters.
god gives moses the 10 commandments. and the torah.(old testament for the christians) fast forward a few million years lol- jesus dies and is "reborn" christians branch off from hebrews, and boom the shit hits the fan. heres why. every single torah in the world that is in hebrew is IDENTICAL. there are too many english interpretations of the christian bible. not bashing christianity at all BTW. anyway, so yes, there is god before the bible cause he gave the damn bible, or torah, or quaran to the people that worship god. simple

[biblethumper]

I agree that there are too many interpretations. But I think it was done to make it a lil easier for us to understand

[Xan]

I NEVER SAID WORSHIP OR IDOLIZING THE BIBLE. YOU AND METALMAN HAVE SAID THAT. IF YOUR GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION PLEASE QUOTE ME ON THE CURRENT TOPIC AND NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Thanx :goodjob:

and Yes those are to different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
True. However...
Do Christians as (defined by the Bible) worship either the Bible or relics? No.
Even bowing to an angel is wrong let alone some museum relic or book. Do true Christians accept and following the counsel/instruction of Bible? Yes.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - The Creator



Admin's response---->whether you like to believe it or not Christians do worship the Bible. don't people bow their head to pray? yes.


I know this was said in a different thread, but since this thread was started because of it I feel it's relevant. Now that your conclusion agrees with what MetalMan and myself have been saying over and over again in regards to Christians idolizing the Bible I'll stop referring to it.

As for the Bible being a relic. It isn't. Relics pass the test of time. the Bible isn't valued for it's age. The scriptures aren't valued for their age. They are valued for the ensight they grant. The culture they thrive in is right here. The Bible has been written, re-written, edited, re-edited, versioned, re-versioned, translated, re-translated. It's still going on today. The Bible is a means to reaching God. The Bible isn't God himself.

Everyone have a great weekend and be safe. Happy labor day...now everyone call in sick.:)

[4dmin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
True. However...
Do Christians as (defined by the Bible) worship either the Bible or relics? No.
Even bowing to an angel is wrong let alone some museum relic or book. Do true Christians accept and following the counsel/instruction of Bible? Yes.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - The Creator



Admin's response---->whether you like to believe it or not Christians do worship the Bible. don't people bow their head to pray? yes.


I know this was said in a different thread, but since this thread was started because of it I feel it's relevant. Now that your conclusion agrees with what MetalMan and myself have been saying over and over again in regards to Christians idolizing the Bible I'll stop referring to it.

As for the Bible being a relic. It isn't. Relics pass the test of time. the Bible isn't valued for it's age. The scriptures aren't valued for their age. They are valued for the ensight they grant. The culture they thrive in is right here. The Bible has been written, re-written, edited, re-edited, versioned, re-versioned, translated, re-translated. It's still going on today. The Bible is a means to reaching God. The Bible isn't God himself.

Everyone have a great weekend and be safe. Happy labor day...now everyone call in sick.:)

its isn't relevant... b/c what i said is a response to his blanket statment that CHRISTIANS DO NOT, that would be assuming he knows all christians, people can worship the bible so that isn't true. Many do it today. They kill in the name of the bible. They idolize it.

So back on topic. Again you and metalman both are twisting words to suit your post in this thread. either answer the thread as started or don't post. its fucking dumb to go round and round about a question you refuse to answer. i started a new topic for that reason. if you won't answer the question w/o twisting the truth then dont' post. its that simple.

[metalman]

As for the Bible being a relic. It isn't. Relics pass the test of time. the Bible isn't valued for it's age. The scriptures aren't valued for their age. They are valued for the ensight they grant.



Admin doesnt grasp that concept Xan. He's a bright guy but apparantly that would conflict with his preferd view of christianity so he rejects it in favor of his prefered opinion. ;)

Good try though. :goodjob:

[Xan]

its isn't relevant... b/c what i said is a response to his blanket statment that CHRISTIANS DO NOT, that would be assuming he knows all christians, people can worship the bible so that isn't true. Many do it today. They kill in the name of the bible. They idolize it.

So back on topic. Again you and metalman both are twisting words to suit your post in this thread. either answer the thread as started or don't post. its fucking dumb to go round and round about a question you refuse to answer. i started a new topic for that reason. if you won't answer the question w/o twisting the truth then dont' post. its that simple.

Once again. People kill in the name of God. Can you point out one instance where someone has killed in the name of the Bible or the Koran or any other religious scripture for that matter? If so I'll shut the hell up. MetalMan's "blanket statement" was referring to christianity as a religion. He was referring to what is stated in the Bible. Of course he doesn't know all Christians, but from how you worded it I'm assuming you do. How am I twisting words? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU POSTED. VERBATIM. PERIOD. Seeing as how this is a debate why would I support your argument? Especially when you are wrong. You're the only one twisting words here my friend. MetalMan NEVER said that ALL Christians don't "idolize" the Bible. He said that the Bible's teachings forbid it. He actually agreed with you that some "lost" Christians will idolize the Bible and stick it on a pedistal and pray to it, the book. Praying for the book to solve their problems. MetalMan stated that it is the wrong way and according to the scriptures found in the Bible it is. Like you stated earlier. Having faith in it and worshiping it aren't the same. Maybe you should go ask your neighbors if they pray to a book to solve their problems or if they pray to a God.

[4dmin]

i guess i'm still confused on the RELIC idea, me and the southern baptist convention as well please see new thread.

[4dmin]

Once again. People kill in the name of God. Can you point out one instance where someone has killed in the name of the Bible or the Koran or any other religious scripture for that matter? If so I'll shut the hell up. if you kill in the name of the god you kill in the name of which you hold faith in, we have already agreed NO BIBLE NO GOD, NO GOD NO FAITH... faith + bible = god ... they all go hand and hand.



MetalMan's "blanket statement" was referring to christianity as a religion. He was referring to what is stated in the Bible. Of course he doesn't know all Christians, but from how you worded it I'm assuming you do. How am I twisting words? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU POSTED. VERBATIM. PERIOD. Seeing as how this is a debate why would I support your argument?

what is stated in the bible isn't neccesarilly practiced that is obviously why i posted what i did. and w/ current findings i'm obviously not far off.



He actually agreed with you that some "lost" Christians will idolize the Bible and stick it on a pedistal and pray to it, the book.
please quote and cite b/c obviously i missed that on the SPEAR thread you keep quoting from in the meantime it would be nice to get back on topic if you want to discuss further on that topic you need to post in that topic.

oh again please read the RELIC thread i posted since i'm so confused and have no idea what i'm talking about... :goodjob:

[Xan]

if you kill in the name of the god you kill in the name of which you hold faith in, we have already agreed NO BIBLE NO GOD, NO GOD NO FAITH... faith + bible = god ... they all go hand and hand.


M




please quote and cite b/c obviously i missed that on the SPEAR thread you keep quoting from in the meantime it would be nice to get back on topic if you want to discuss further on that topic you need to post in that topic.

oh again please read the RELIC thread i posted since i'm so confused and have no idea what i'm talking about... :goodjob:

Did you even read the link you posted in your relic thread?

This is the opening sentence. This is the author of said article disagreeing with the decision made by the Baptist Commission to make the Bible a "Revered Relic"---->I have noticed the reverence some hold for certain icons and relics. I am curious and respectful, but I do not establish my theology or state my faith on reverence for relics.

<SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'MS Mincho'">

<SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'MS Mincho'">This is the author describing relics as they are seen from a religious standpoint----->The believer approaches a sacred relic with a magical expectancy that it is the repository of spiritual insight and miraculous powers. Reminds me of Indiana Jones's encounter with the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail of Christ. Such a magical reverence for relics makes for exciting entertainment but very poor theology.

[ShooterMcGavin]

i guess if you have a peanut for brain maybe... but kinda like a child growing up in a room w/ no windows who is made to think a rat is a cat and a cat a rat... :goodjob:

ya sounds crazy doesn't it, but the mind is easy to manipulate. black can be white all depends on the perspective.

not sure about perspective so much as words, language, communication/interpretation.....i mean, what is BLACK, it is a word we've been taught since the day we were born that ties to a color our brain processes, if we were taught from birth that "black" was in fact "white" (language wise), then that's how we'd always know it as. make sense?

[4dmin]

Did you even read the link you posted in your relic thread?

yes the author does state that i did read it and he also stated as i said it is seen as a relic and why... his personal thoughts make no difference in this thread it is just one point of view but for th Southern Baptist Convention which is made up of more then one to say that... umm ya.

question... since you are still debating the bible isn't a relic even though now i have shown you christians who say it is... you believe christians don't think the bible hold any power? its the word of god. ever watch late night tv on sat... there is a billion and one faith healers using gods words (bible) and the holy spirit to cure everything from cancer to jock itch... please explain this since its not a relic?

in the true sense your physical bible you pick up at borders today isn't a relic, but the scriptures are contained in it. :goodjob:

[4dmin]

not sure about perspective so much as words, language, communication/interpretation.....i mean, what is BLACK, it is a word we've been taught since the day we were born that ties to a color our brain processes, if we were taught from birth that "black" was in fact "white" (language wise), then that's how we'd always know it as. make sense?

exactly... but you didn't know black until you were taught it... get my drift. same w/ god. thats why there are many names for god/jesus.. if the christian god was an instinct inside of us then everyone would know of him... there are people all over the world who have no idea who this GOD/JESUS guy is. :goodjob:

[knee_grow]

Christians have to be told what to think and how to act. That's why the bible exists. Written by idiots for idiots. No better than Scientologists or Mormons.

[man]

Christians have to be told what to think and how to act. That's why the bible exists. Written by idiots for idiots. No better than Scientologists or Mormons.

LOL!!! Right... I must have forgot that I'm dumb (I didn't know MIT accepted dumb people :dunno: )

[metalman]

question... since you are still debating the bible isn't a relic even though now i have shown you christians who say it is... you believe christians don't think the bible hold any power? its the word of god. ever watch late night tv on sat... there is a billion and one faith healers using gods words (bible) and the holy spirit to cure everything from cancer to jock itch... please explain this since its not a relic?

:

What you have actually shown us REPEATEDLY is that you have very little understanding of the Bible OR true worship, and the difference between "relic worship" and following sound counsel. You have also shown that you are unable to distinguish idolotry from worship that is not.

If youre getting ANY of your info from "faith healers" on TV no wonder youre confused. :rolleyes:

The book called the Bible has NO power. It is made of the same material as a scary Stephen King novel. The INFORMATION in BOTH books has "power", one to entertain, invoke fear, scary thoughts whatever, the other to instruct on the best way to live, whats happened in the past, whats coming in the future, things to do, things to avoid, etc and ultimately save ones soul.

The fact that some phony TV minister tells someone to place their hand on a book and they'll be "saved/healed" etc means NOTHING. Had you studied your Bible you (or anyone) wouldnt be so easily fooled. Therin lies one benefit from Bible study as opposed to Bible disection and disbelief. Therin lies the "power" of INFORMATION.

[4dmin]

LOL!!! Right... I must have forgot that I'm dumb (I didn't know MIT accepted dumb people :dunno: )

really you go to MIT? wow i didn't know that was a religious school :thinking:

[4dmin]

What you have actually shown us REPEATEDLY is that you have very little understanding of the Bible OR true worship, and the difference between "relic worship" and following sound counsel. You have also shown that you are unable to distinguish idolotry from worship that is not.

If youre getting ANY of your info from "faith healers" on TV no wonder youre confused. :rolleyes:



hello did i say anything about WORSHIP no so again why are putting words in my mouth... did i say anything about idolotry? no. i called the bible a relic and to further prove it show how people try to give it power which it obviously doesn't have. do i use made for tv for my outlook on christianity? no, but its another prime example to prove my point the bible is a relic and people use it as a relic.

again you are off topic. you want to dicuss WORSHIP start a thread about it. you sat here and posted like an ass on how smart you are yet you won't answer any questions you want to just hear the sound of your own voice by posting up BS that has no place in this discussion. you want to fucking post off topic shit go to the whoreslounge.

[man]

really you go to MIT? wow i didn't know that was a religious school :thinking:

No I don't go to MIT, couldn't come up with the funds, but I was accepted. Who said anything about it being a religious school? This knee_grow guy is just dumb for believing that Christians are people of low intelligence.

[metalman]

i called the bible a relic and to further prove it show how people try to give it power which it obviously doesn't have. do i use made for tv for my outlook on christianity? no, but its another prime example to prove my point the bible is a relic and people use it as a relic.

.

And, as I said from the beginning, TRUE Christians do not give the Bible any power it does not have.

I have always acknowledged that some people "idolize" the Bible.

You seem unable to distinguish true Christianity from false. Not surprising given your position and attitude toward the Book that would give you the INFORMATION to know the difference. ;)

[4dmin]

No I don't go to MIT, couldn't come up with the funds, but I was accepted. Who said anything about it being a religious school? This knee_grow guy is just dumb for believing that Christians are people of low intelligence.

that sucks MIT is a great school, but the point was b/c your great in math doesn't mean you know jack shit about religion :goodjob: , i don't ask my doctor for car advise ;)

[4dmin]

And, as I said from the beginning, TRUE Christians do not give the Bible any power it does not have.

I have always acknowledged that some people "idolize" the Bible.

You seem unable to distinguish true Christianity from false. Not surprising given your position and attitude toward the Book that would give you the INFORMATION to know the difference. ;)

well no shit but who are you to say who is TRUE and who isn't you are but just a man as we est... and this topic isn't even about relics... it was about god w/o the bible.

any further post like the previous i'm just going to delete since you obviously aren't reading what i'm posting. you and xan want to keep getting offtopic... start another thread if you want to discuss that. if you have something to add about god w/o the bible say it your way off base in this discussion. :goodjob:

[Xan]

well no shit but who are you to say who is TRUE and who isn't you are but just a man as we est... and this topic isn't even about relics... it was about god w/o the bible.

any further post like the previous i'm just going to delete since you obviously aren't reading what i'm posting. you and xan want to keep getting offtopic... start another thread if you want to discuss that. if you have something to add about god w/o the bible say it your way off base in this discussion. :goodjob:

I'm going to agree with you. Sorry for whoring your thread.

[4dmin]

thanx ^

[Xan]

God in the Christian sense wouldn't exist without the Bible. However, the general theme of a creator would still remain. Most take comfort in the notion that we aren't an "accident." People like the idea of things happening for a reason. The question presented in this post really cannot be answered. For one to state that God doesn't exist, in a factual sense, one would have to have travelled the lengths of time and space and seen all of the known universe and whatever lies beneath it. One would require infinite knowledge of all things in order to make an assumption such as this and state it in factual terms. The same applies to the assumption of there being a God/creator. Once again. One cannot prove that a God, Christian or otherwise, actually exists. However, one cannot prove that he/she/it doesn't.

[metalman]

well no shit but who are you to say who is TRUE and who isn't you are but just a man as we est... and this topic isn't even about relics... it was about god w/o the bible.

:

Well again, this would/should be obvious to the Bible student who has partaken of the gift God has seen fit to give. ANYONE who sincerely desires it, and SEEKS it CAN know what is TRUE, especially on many elementary issues that are discussed in this forum.

To those that don't undertand, or study, or honestly seek Gods wisdom, thats just "confusion", so I understand yours. You may be using your lack of understanding as "proof" that no one can understand truth.
Sorry, thats only proof of YOUR lack of it, not everyones. ;)

And yes, there would be God without the Bible as stated all along.

Evidences of an intelligent God exist all around us. Would we have all the same insights and details without the Bible? No. But that was stated at the beginning too.