DoD to release 9/11 video showing the Pentagon being hit

[Sport1.3]

1pm EST

link:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml

[The Golden Child]

hmmm the truth will still be unknown ..

[Sport1.3]

ya im sure the tapes will be "alittle doctored"

[The Golden Child]

and you wont be able to see shit ..

[Sport1.3]

we'll see

[Brett]

The pentagon was never hit by a plane, No evidence has EVER supported that theory, I think honestly we hit it with a missle.

[Sport1.3]

DUh! thats why this is going to be something to see....judicial Watch is having problems getting the tape....news stations are waiting till 2pm...this is BS. there is something so fucked up ab this situation. there site is all kinds of messed up. i dont believe half the shit we are told...conspiracy FTL!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W-56LkY897I&search=moon%20landing
^one of the ones that gets me all the time lol

[HyPer50]

*sigh*.....

[Vteckidd]

I still believe the pentagon was hit by a plane. i have seen no evidence , regardless , that we hit it with a missle.

[Xan]

I still believe the pentagon was hit by a plane. i have seen no evidence , regardless , that we hit it with a missle.

+1. Maybe not the plane they say it was, but a plane none the less.

[Sport1.3]

well there really is no proof either way...the previous tapes showing impact definitly showed an object SMALLER than a plane hit the wall, but it was too fast to really tell. also the hole in the pentagon wall was way too small to be a 747. :goodjob:
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/trou1moyenne.jpg
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/your-own-evidence.jpg

shit links dont work.^^

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[Brett]

I still believe the pentagon was hit by a plane. i have seen no evidence , regardless , that we hit it with a missle.

The engine parts recovered are not that of the size plane they claim hit it, meaning wasnt the airliner and still I cant see how anyone believes this airliner hit and there was no peices of a plane to recover, a plane that size would have peices left, The heat was not at a melting point to melt everything.

Explain the line that was painted on the ground 2 days before the crash that was an exact line the plane took ( yes there are pictures that show this line 2 days before )

Explain how no lightpole on the highway was hit by the plane when it went right over the highyway, etc... TO MANY THINGS DONT ADD UP, and the fact they held this video for 4 years proves it.

[Ruiner]

The pentagon was never hit by a plane, No evidence has EVER supported that theory, I think honestly we hit it with a missle.

You are joking, right? Here's some damn evidence...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[Ruiner]

The engine parts recovered are not that of the size plane they claim hit it, meaning wasnt the airliner and still I cant see how anyone believes this airliner hit and there was no peices of a plane to recover, a plane that size would have peices left, The heat was not at a melting point to melt everything.

Explain the line that was painted on the ground 2 days before the crash that was an exact line the plane took ( yes there are pictures that show this line 2 days before )

Explain how no lightpole on the highway was hit by the plane when it went right over the highyway, etc... TO MANY THINGS DONT ADD UP, and the fact they held this video for 4 years proves it.

WRONG! Read this and you will see that it IS the same type of plane...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[Ruiner]

well there really is no proof either way...the previous tapes showing impact definitly showed an object SMALLER than a plane hit the wall, but it was too fast to really tell. also the hole in the pentagon wall was way too small to be a 747. :goodjob:



Looks to be a 12-15ft hole to me....

A 757, not a 747...

The 757-200 dimensions:
Tail Height: 44 ft 6 in (13.6m)
Length: 155 ft 3 in (47.32m)
Wingspan: 124 ft 10 in (38.05m)
Body Exterior Width: 12 ft 4 in (3.7m)

[Brett]

WRONG! Read this and you will see that it IS the same type of plane...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

I will read that on my break for sure :)

[Ruiner]

I will read that on my break for sure :)

Please do. Read this as well:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html

[JITB]

wheres the family on the passengers on the pentagon plane?? what about the pilot? Why hasnt there been anyword about the people on the pentagon plane? 757's dont fly themselves

[Brett]

I will for sure, I always want to read the facts on this issue, Because to much just doesnt make sense about the Pentagon attack, so I like to read things that show otherwise.

[Stormhammer]

^^^ you know, he's right

[JITB]

soo that 757 just was completly smashed and destroyed by the falling of the pentagons front concrete wall? All taht steel and theres 1 piece of aircraft laying in the yard.. 1 out of 12 wheels, 1 piece of the motor. Not a trace of either wing. And not a word about anyones family on the plane not even a word on a pilot. They found 60 bodies huh, 60 bodies of who?

[Sport1.3]

Looks to be a 12-15ft hole to me....

A 757, not a 747...

The 757-200 dimensions:
Tail Height: 44 ft 6 in (13.6m)
Length: 155 ft 3 in (47.32m)
Wingspan: 124 ft 10 in (38.05m)
you pretty much showed me right there it wasnt that type of plane.the tail and wings dont disappear on impact, or come off not leaving even a scratch on the brick wall. i can mark a brick wall with a bat and it couldnt traveling that fast? where were all the seats and the wings/tail? where was the black box??which was never found or submitted. where are the burn marks on the grass due to exterior impact on the outer walls of the pentagon, where were all the dead bodies supposedly on board, why was it that, that part of the building just happened to be under constructions and having minimal amount of casualities, how could the plane of flown so low to hit that low and not hit cars or light poles etc.......

[Sport1.3]

soo that 757 just was completly smashed and destroyed by the falling of the pentagons front concrete wall? All taht steel and theres 1 piece of aircraft laying in the yard.. 1 out of 12 wheels, 1 piece of the motor. Not a trace of either wing. And not a word about anyones family on the plane not even a word on a pilot. They found 60 bodies huh, 60 bodies of who?

all good points...ppl that dont atleast look for themselves to try and find the truth and not just what the internet and news flips out are just mindless boobs.

[JITB]

thye said they found the black box but dont want to release it b/c of th families...lol, but who are the people on the plane? Havent even heard 1 name from anyoen on that plane not even the pilot.

Can u honestly say that that plane completly dismantled and copletly disentagrated among impact in to a concrete wall.
http://www.bedoper.com/eastman/small_plane/simulation1.jpg

BTW loose change is bveign sponsored by fox news, isnt the best news source, but its getting alot of exposure.

[Ruiner]

soo that 757 just was completly smashed and destroyed by the falling of the pentagons front concrete wall? All taht steel and theres 1 piece of aircraft laying in the yard.. 1 out of 12 wheels, 1 piece of the motor. Not a trace of either wing. And not a word about anyones family on the plane not even a word on a pilot. They found 60 bodies huh, 60 bodies of who?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html

In response to the question of "where is the wreckage of the plane", the answer is that much of the wreckage slid into the ground floor of the Pentagon. It slid INTO the building, into the first floor space, starting a fire in the first floor, whereupon the upper floors later collapsed down onto the remains of the aircraft. Most of the aircraft wreckage is therefore under the collapsed roof section in the photo. So where is the rest of the wreckage from the passenger plane? Right in plain view, for those who actually look.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/TINY_overview.jpg (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg)

Click for larger image of the damage to Pentagon (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg)




Now for the good site:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

Review the facts
- Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high)
- Rims found in building match those of a 757
- Small turbine engine outside is an APU
- Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engineBlue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos
- Part of "American" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo
- Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211
- Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes
- Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object
- Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion
- Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner
- Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon
- 60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

[Sport1.3]

http://killtown.911review.org/video/flight77/pentagon_cctv.gif
here it is just noticing the missing second goes 19,21,22,23, on the frames, guessing they were missing a still when they made the gif
http://www.bedoper.com/eastman/small_plane/simulation1.jpg
also how the hell can you say thats a plane in the film...its no where near as big

[Ruiner]

how could the plane of flown so low to hit that low and not hit cars or light poles etc.......

Cars, light poles at your request:

The hit lightpoles, and damaged vehicles in the flightpath (click for larger images)
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/1s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg) http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/1-1s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1-1.jpg) http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/2s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg)
http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12_small.jpg (http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12.jpg)

[Stormhammer]

okay just to get the thread back on track

waht about the video?

[Sport1.3]

Cars, light poles at your request:

The hit lightpoles, and damaged vehicles in the flightpath (click for larger images)
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/1s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg) http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/1-1s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1-1.jpg) http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/2s.jpg (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg)
http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12_small.jpg (http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12.jpg)

the links on all those pics keeps breaking.....ive seen the pics. they prove nothing. could all be results of the explosion after the object hit the pentagon. big question is where are all the bodies? the flight recorder (black box) would detail everything, why hasnt that been released to squelch all falsifying claims? where are all these outraged families that lost their loved ones? where is a list of the on board passengers that cant be found? still doesnt explain the no apparent burns or marking on the grass that a 757 would of had to make with an impact on a building? why did the "plane" hit the exact area of the pentagon that was under construction and void of any and all government workers when it had four other sides that could have seen the same damage? why if the pentagon is one of the most highly secured building in the US that we only have cameras that capture slow motion film, there are TONS of cameras around the entire perimeter of the building that are on constantly recording, where is that footage? where are these families that were really saying they got a phone call from their family member before the crash? etc.....ive got plenty more questions as well

[Sport1.3]

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

more attempts to debunk the conspiracy :lmfao:

[Sledlude]

12 feet 4inch BODY width... what about wing span?? the wings and engines would have made a whole in the side of the pentagon a whole hell of a lot bigger than 13 feet. the physics of it does just not add up.

[Ruiner]

12 feet 4inch BODY width... what about wing span?? the wings and engines would have made a whole in the side of the pentagon a whole hell of a lot bigger than 13 feet. the physics of it does just not add up.

Well, remember that it hit the ground before it hit the building, so the wings wouldn't have really impacted the building like you would think. Wings are fairly lightweight and can easily crumble...

[Ruiner]

the links on all those pics keeps breaking.....ive seen the pics. they prove nothing. could all be results of the explosion after the object hit the pentagon. big question is where are all the bodies? the flight recorder (black box) would detail everything, why hasnt that been released to squelch all falsifying claims? where are all these outraged families that lost their loved ones? where is a list of the on board passengers that cant be found? still doesnt explain the no apparent burns or marking on the grass that a 757 would of had to make with an impact on a building? why did the "plane" hit the exact area of the pentagon that was under construction and void of any and all government workers when it had four other sides that could have seen the same damage? why if the pentagon is one of the most highly secured building in the US that we only have cameras that capture slow motion film, there are TONS of cameras around the entire perimeter of the building that are on constantly recording, where is that footage? where are these families that were really saying they got a phone call from their family member before the crash? etc.....ive got plenty more questions as well

I personally have a friend that saw the plane fly low overhead and heard the boom. He didn't see the explosion, but you get the idea. There are HUNDREDS of these type of witnesses by the way.

[Sledlude]

there would still be wing debris on the lawn, which there wasnt. there would be a LOT more debris. plus, they said that they found an engine INSIDE the pentagon wreckage. so there should be a larger hole.

[Sledlude]

^^ and according to that damn loose change video the engine they "found" in the building wasn't consistent with the plane

[Ruiner]

^^ and according to that damn loose change video the engine they "found" in the building wasn't consistent with the plane

Engine Evidence
Let�s take a look at some of the ground debris that appears to be related to an aircraft engine. Many different sites and posts have reported that the 757 uses Rolls-Royce engines [RB211-535E4B] - however it should be noted, for the sake of thuroughness, that American Airlines also use Pratt & Witney engines [PW2037] in many of their 757 fleet. You can also view this information on their website (http://www.aa.com/content/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing757.jhtml). (The 757 fleets around the world actually use over six different kinds of engines.) The 757 that is reported to have hit the Pentagon was using RB211-535E4B engines.

Here is are photos of some apparent engine parts from the Pentagon crash site.


Image portion cropped from (source) (http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/high/va_pentagon_0901_135.jpg) - Another View (http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/high/va_pentagon_0901_136.jpg)

What is seen in this photo is most likely the APU (Aux Power Unit) used in a 757 that is equipped with Rolls-Royce RB211 engines. The APU (Honeywell GTCP331-200) is located in the tail section of the aircraft (that's what the large vent that looks like a 3rd jet engine is) as edvidenced on this technical rescue reference aid (http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/arff/arff757.pdf) from Boeing. Boeing 757 reference website (http://www.757.org.uk/limits/lim4.html). These small turbine engines are quite common on modern turbine & turbofan passenger aircraft, and are used to furnish ground auxillary power while the main engines are shut down during ground operations. An online training aid (http://www.artietheairplane.com/main.html) lets you Play around with the controls on a 757/767 instrument pannel.

There have been some people who claim that a Global Hawk was what hit the Pentagon. Here is what John W. Brown, spokesman for Rolls Royce (Indianapolis), had to say about the part in the photo above �It is not a part from any Rolls Royce engine that I�m familiar with, and certainly not the AE 3007H made here in Indy.� (Of course it wouldn't be anything he's familiar with, it's a powerplant made by Honeywell.) The AE 3007 engines are used in small commuter jets such as the Cessna Citation; the AE 3007H is also used in the military�s unmanned aircraft, the Global Hawk. The Global Hawk is manufactured by Northrop Grumman�s subsidiary Ryan Aeronautical, which it acquired from Teledyne, Inc. in July 1999. A detailed view of what the turbofan that powers the Global Hawk looks like (http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/gallery/defence/lrg_ae3007_6.htm) - I'm sure you can see it's too small to be anything in the pictures contained here or anywhere else in the Pentagon crash evidence. Also visible in this photo, one of the 757's blue passenger seats to the left of the turbine, and possibly a 2nd seat above the other seat.


Below is a significant portion of a badly smashed RB211 engine in the Pentagon wreckage - what appears to be the diffusor section of the compressor, one of the pumps remains partially attached, some hoses and the familiar webbed wire wraps (to the right of the main ring) and some of the Boeing yellow primed support structure is lying beside it (left, with rivets - again: note the yellow primer, we'll cover that further down).
Reference: Image of the engine used on the 757 (it's the rightmost one, top row) Rolls-Royce (http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/gallery/civil/lrg_civfam.htm)


Another engine part, bottom right.

Below: Evidence of the right engine impact on the side of the building is evident on the large pillar being sprayed with fire retardant. (click photo for huge version)

(http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/4.jpg)

[Stormhammer]

Ruiner, just fyi, the red x is owning you

[Sledlude]

so where is the rest of the wings? if they broke off before hitting the building there would by huge wing sections on the lawn. if they entered the building, there would be a larger hole.

[Ruiner]

Ruiner, just fyi, the red x is owning you

Oh well. He can go here and look at the pics:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[Sport1.3]

Well, remember that it hit the ground before it hit the building, so the wings wouldn't have really impacted the building like you would think. Wings are fairly lightweight and can easily crumble...

if it hit the ground first where is the markings that would obviously be on the lawn? there is nothing showing that a plane imacted the ground anywhere



I personally have a friend that saw the plane fly low overhead and heard the boom. He didn't see the explosion, but you get the idea. There are HUNDREDS of these type of witnesses by the way.

haha so does everyone else and there mother...haha doesnt mean shit... ever heard of how urban myths start. "well a friend of a friend" lol. my mothers aunt was killed on 911....she was on the 1st plane to hit the worldtrade center. they never found her body....the whole thing is BS...911 was americas footstep into war, whether the ppl here wanted it or not. just like pearl harbor. we were warned ab both. yet did nothing. until all the facts are found out...im not believing shit im told. no black box=no proof

[aaronfelipe]

hmmm the truth will still be unknown ..
Yeah, it pisses me off

[Ruiner]

haha so does everyone else and there mother...haha doesnt mean shit... ever heard of how urban myths start. "well a friend of a friend" lol. my mothers aunt was killed on 911....she was on the 1st plane to hit the worldtrade center. they never found her body....the whole thing is BS...911 was americas footstep into war, whether the ppl here wanted it or not. just like pearl harbor. we were warned ab both. yet did nothing. until all the facts are found out...im not believing shit im told. no black box=no proof

No, I have a friend that works in DC, actually. He works for the CIA. I know this because the Dept. of Defense interviewed me as a character witness for him when he was applying for the job. He saw it...there is no urban legend in relation to my story.

Put the tin foil hat away, okay? How old are you? Are you an educated man?

[JITB]

no damage to the lawn... what happened to the wings again?

[Ruiner]

no damage to the lawn... what happened to the wings again?

Just read it. It answers all of your questions...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[Nopaintsls]

I personally have a friend that saw the plane fly low overhead and heard the boom. He didn't see the explosion, but you get the idea. There are HUNDREDS of these type of witnesses by the way.

sure...

[Nopaintsls]

Just read it. It answers all of your questions...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

find a new source... plz you keep putting up these links that are in your favor...

[Sledlude]

Oh well. He can go here and look at the pics:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

it's "she". :)
and i'm checking it out thanks for the link.

[Sport1.3]

No, I have a friend that works in DC, actually. He works for the CIA. I know this because the Dept. of Defense interviewed me as a character witness for him when he was applying for the job. He saw it...there is no urban legend in relation to my story.

Put the tin foil hat away, okay? How old are you? Are you an educated man?


^im 22 with a bac degree in business management @TCU and finishing up one in mechanical engineering @SPSU. if you want to get technical ab the physics and strength of materials i can spin your head...i know for a fact that what we are being told is complete and utter BS. a plane may infact of hit the pentagon, but the facts and details as to how it happened are way outta wack, and the fact that so many ppl just blindly accept them as true is mind boggling. im not saying it was a missle or a plane. im saying that it wasnt a 757. and taking your facts from the internet though a good source of information is only allowing yourself the sight of one point of view. science as im sure your aware can prove or disprove your actual existance, so why would this be any different.....anything can be made to seem reality when enough wrong information is given to the masses...its caled propaganda

[Brett]

you pretty much showed me right there it wasnt that type of plane.the tail and wings dont disappear on impact, or come off not leaving even a scratch on the brick wall. i can mark a brick wall with a bat and it couldnt traveling that fast? where were all the seats and the wings/tail? where was the black box??which was never found or submitted. where are the burn marks on the grass due to exterior impact on the outer walls of the pentagon, where were all the dead bodies supposedly on board, why was it that, that part of the building just happened to be under constructions and having minimal amount of casualities, how could the plane of flown so low to hit that low and not hit cars or light poles etc.......

That is one of my MANY questions, that and why a line 2 days earlier like I said was painted on the grass that was the exact path the plane or whatever it was took. I hear interviews from people who made the parts of the plane and they say what was shown is not from that airliner. The FAA still shows the plane that crashed in the field still has a active FAA number, so we have 2 planes that crashed, yet no one saw the 2 actually hit, and the debree left from both are so minimal its like they just didnt exsist at all? To much doesnt add up, Im tellin ya.

[Sport1.3]

http://uploader.ws/upload/200605/pent.gif
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/BootleggSI/commplane.jpg
here is the vid...this looked doctored to anyone else? the plane is too bright and there is no shadow behind it like everything else in the video has??? there is also no debre following the plane showing that its actually made contact with ground as well as not in any pic is there any photographic evidence that the plane hit. there are not burn marks, pot holes etc showing a planes path

[Brett]

No, I have a friend that works in DC, actually. He works for the CIA. I know this because the Dept. of Defense interviewed me as a character witness for him when he was applying for the job. He saw it...there is no urban legend in relation to my story.

Put the tin foil hat away, okay? How old are you? Are you an educated man?

And you think someone who works for the CIA is not going to cover up for the government? Him working for the CIA just makes me question even more his story of what he saw, Not bashing your friend by any means, But its not like someone working for the CIA is going to tell any story different then what the government wants us to think.

Again, if it hit the lawn, where is the wings? Where is the impact marks on the lawn? How did all these cameras never actually see a plane? Where is the larger peices? How is there one huge peice that of course just happens to show a partial AMERICAN AIRLINES marking but its not burnt or anything, To me it looks like it was placed there, in public view so people could say it was the plane, The heat cant melt a whole fucking plane to nothing and leave no trace of bodies or anything, Just like flight 93 doesnt add up either.

Again, why was a line painted 2 days before on the grass that showed the same path a plane that we are told hit took? Kinda odd that line was put there 2 days before isnt it?

[Sport1.3]

^exactly...in every plane crash wreckage i have ever seen the tail end is usually somewhat intact...where the fuck is it here?

[Brett]

http://uploader.ws/upload/200605/pent.gif
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/BootleggSI/commplane.jpg
here is the vid...this looked doctored to anyone else? the plane is too bright and there is no shadow behind it like everything else in the video has??? there is also no debre following the plane showing that its actually made contact with ground as well as not in any pic is there any photographic evidence that the plane hit. there are not burn marks, pot holes etc showing a planes path

I dont even see a fucking plane there, A plane as big as that would show a bit more then that, to me it looks like a vapor trail heading to the building, Kinda like a missle trail or something, But hell if I see a fucking AMERICAN AIRLINES jet.

[Sport1.3]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/770000/images/_773221_crash300.jpg
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/09/05/6n_crash_wideweb__430x286.jpg
http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/images/people/sascrashAP.jpg
http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2000/11/02/20001101134417.jpeg
see most the parts were still intact. the plane that landed in PA burned for much, much longer and still there was more wreckage to be found??!! :jerkit:

[Sport1.3]

I dont even see a fucking plane there, A plane as big as that would show a bit more then that, to me it looks like a vapor trail heading to the building, Kinda like a missle trail or something, But hell if I see a fucking AMERICAN AIRLINES jet.

well ill agree that whats in that pic is a plane...i just highly doubt that the film is completely untampered with.

[Ran]

Conspiracy or not, I fail to see what this video will do beside bring people to argue about more sh*t that happened in the past. I mean seriously. What's done is done. The Pentagon blew up as did the WTC. So now we're in Iraq doing our thing and what-not. The arguments about 9/11 will continue no matter what "evidence" is proven by either argument. Damn people, move on.

[Sport1.3]

^sorry man but thats pretty ignorant. history is very important. if you cant learn from past events then your future is doomed. if the government is infact plotting a conspiracy against its ppl then we need to know and change how we allow ourselves to be controlled. this is a debate not an arguement. noone is mad at anyone. its simply different opinions. whos to say something like this wont happen again if we dont expose the truth....oh wait this wasnt the first time...remember pearl harbor?

[Ran]

So.....Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy too? WTF?

I simply fail to see the point of arguing about old sh*t that's not going to make a difference now. If it turns out to be a conspiracy, then what? Are you going to overthrow the government because they can't be trusted? If it turns out to be true, then what? Probably won't accept it and argue about it anyway. It's all pointless blabbering to me.

[~The_Duke~]

^sorry man but thats pretty ignorant. history is very important. if you cant learn from past events then your future is doomed. if the government is infact plotting a conspiracy against its ppl then we need to know and change how we allow ourselves to be controlled. this is a debate not an arguement. noone is mad at anyone. its simply different opinions. whos to say something like this wont happen again if we dont expose the truth....oh wait this wasnt the first time...remember pearl harbor?

If I remember correctly the japense decided to fly a whole lot a planes over a military harbor that didnt know they were pissed at us and blew the shit out of our ships while they were still in port...it just means we didnt have a very good way of detecting incoming foes at the time...

History is very important but if someone or group of people is going to conspire againest us in a secret location or behind closed doors somewhere there isnt much we can do about it except for be prepared for the unexcepted.

[Chris Mazda]

well there really is no proof either way...the previous tapes showing impact definitly showed an object SMALLER than a plane hit the wall, but it was too fast to really tell. also the hole in the pentagon wall was way too small to be a 747. :goodjob:
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/trou1moyenne.jpg
http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/your-own-evidence.jpg

shit links dont work.^^

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

it was a boeing 757 bit of a size difference there ace

[99SI]

If I remember correctly the japense decided to fly a whole lot a planes over a military harbor that didnt know they were pissed at us and blew the shit out of our ships while they were still in port...it just means we didnt have a very good way of detecting incoming foes at the time...

History is very important but if someone or group of people is going to conspire againest us in a secret location or behind closed doors somewhere there isnt much we can do about it except for be prepared for the unexcepted.
As far as Pearl Harbor goes the Japanese had spies here, we knew they had spies here, they were in Pearl Harbor, scuba diving to see where things were underwater, taking inventory of the ships we had in port, planes we had there. So it is not as if we didn't know and were caught completely off gaurd on that one. Also, to throw another conspiracy on the fire. lol. JFK had begun removal of ground troops from Vietnam, he was going to completely pull out. He was assassinated with suspicious facts around it. When the office was filled by Lyndon Johnson troops were sent back to Vietnam along with more troops. Bombings on non military positions was constant. Bomb factories all over the US flourished, new business cropped up to support the "CONFLICT" in Vietnam. Hell they couldn't hire enough people to build bombs, ammunition, etc. Lyndon Johnson had very very strong ties to people in the Defense Industry that profited mightily every day we stayed in Vietnam. I am not a conspiracy theorist, however, I do not believe that our country is completely innocent of any wrongdoing at any time. Hell we dropped 2 Atomic bombs on crowded CITIES in Japan. Not on Military bases or missle silos but on the streets of downtown cities. The U.S. government infected a group of black people in an experiment on the effects of Syphilis, not a small group either. They were kept together in a large compound and watched while their brains were eaten by a deadly disease just to see what would happen. Our country is a great place. I love it dearly, although I do believe that we should question everything and even if we are called "unpatriotic", by not following the masses and finding out for sure with absolute proof, we are not only Patriotic we are doing what our forefathers would want us to do and that is to make sure that the government is serving our best interest and not just those who are in power.

[Sport1.3]

^nice input thanx michael


If I remember correctly the japense decided to fly a whole lot a planes over a military harbor that didnt know they were pissed at us and blew the shit out of our ships while they were still in port...it just means we didnt have a very good way of detecting incoming foes at the time...


History is very important but if someone or group of people is going to conspire againest us in a secret location or behind closed doors somewhere there isnt much we can do about it except for be prepared for the unexcepted.

we knew about the pending attacks days before they occured, exactly like we did ab 9/11. if that was also so easily debunked then why have we gone back and forth for years over it. they were both terrorist attacks on US soil

[Chris Mazda]

anyone who thinks that 9/11 is a conspiracy theory is completely fucking stupid. I hope this video puts morons like the guy who runs reopen911 in their place.

[Sport1.3]

^this coming from a Darwin award winner......go drowned yourself in the bathwater you uneducated tool

[Elbow]

i think someone else hit it with a missle hint the unmarked planes above and america is hiding that by saying it was hit with a plane so america wouldnt freak knowing there were missles involved.

[Ran]

we knew about the pending attacks days before they occured, exactly like we did ab 9/11. if that was also so easily debunked then why have we gone back and forth for years over it. they were both terrorist attacks on US soilThe attack on Pearl Harbor was an act of war, not a terrorist attack. If you've ever seen a documentary on Pearl Harbor, you'll see that some of the spotters on the outer islands did in-fact report incoming Japanese, but they were discredited for the most part until just before the attack. Conspiracy? Highly doubtful. More like a lack of communication. After all, America still had a big head after whooping ass in WWI. We were untouchable until that attack. Then America was promptly handed a big slice of humble pie. Not saying that we didn't kick ass afterwards tho. :D

[Brett]

anyone who thinks that 9/11 is a conspiracy theory is completely fucking stupid. I hope this video puts morons like the guy who runs reopen911 in their place.

Yes because its so hard to imagine that the government would do something like this? If it will kill its own president (Remember that guy by the name of JFK?) we would do this. Explain the insurance taken out on the 2 towers 2 weeks before the attack. Explain how bulks or airline stock were bought with a type of insurance that protects the invester from a big loss? Did you see the video that shows the implosions on the two WT towers as it started to collapse? People heard the implosion devices going off as they started to fall. A Plane would not have brought these towers down, they were designed to withstand these impacts, Dude, If you think we live in a country that our government has no blood on thier hands, you are in a fairy tale land. Vietnam was fought for one reason, MONEY!!! To make lots of it. The blood of how many soldiers are on the hands for that?

[Brett]

i think someone else hit it with a missle hint the unmarked planes above and america is hiding that by saying it was hit with a plane so america wouldnt freak knowing there were missles involved.

Yeah I forgot about the unmarked planes that were seen over head when the pentagon was hit, Kinda like if a plane was flown via remote into it (Which would then explain the painted line on the grass so it would have a path to follow maybe?) The unmarked white planes stayed in the area till the impact then flew off. They were in the sky when NO AIR TRAFFIC was allowed except for fighters.

[Sport1.3]

^another good point is that the area over and around the pentagon is a no flyzone. if infact a plane would be found on radar it would have been shot down miles b4 it hit the pentagon. there is no way your going to tell me they lost contact with the plane that long to have let it go off course that far and crash into the pentagon. i mean way smaller plans have been shot down or redirected when entering such areas, and with no warning. like that payne stewart's plane. it was picked up by the airforce moments after they lost contact with ground. everyone died onboard due to loss of cabin pressure. they werent in a no fly zone yet were picked up very soon after the passengers and pilots on board died. the airforce followed the plane on autopilot till it came down. so how is it this commercial plane did this in a no fly zone and marking much bigger on radar....doesnt add up.

[99SI]

One of the biggest things about 9/11 that always bugged me wast he FBI agent that did a field report on suspicious persons (Mohamed Atta) at a flight training facility in Florida that were learning how to fly commercial airliners but didn't want take off or landing training only in flight training. Gee can you get anymore obvious than that? The report was not followed up on even though it was given to superiors for further investigation.

[Sport1.3]

The attack on Pearl Harbor was an act of war, not a terrorist attack. If you've ever seen a documentary on Pearl Harbor, you'll see that some of the spotters on the outer islands did in-fact report incoming Japanese, but they were discredited for the most part until just before the attack. Conspiracy? Highly doubtful. More like a lack of communication. After all, America still had a big head after whooping ass in WWI. We were untouchable until that attack. Then America was promptly handed a big slice of humble pie. Not saying that we didn't kick ass afterwards tho. :D

nathan, come on now. your giving the government too much credit. the pearl harbor attack was our window into world warII. it was well know the japanese didnt like us but they had no intentions of starting a war with us...no one did, like you said we were a world power after WWI. but as always we had bigger plans. the attack whether real or staged (a big conspiracy theory) happened and we knew it was going to. lot and lots of ppl lost their lives that day, all for the profit of big business. war stimulates economy, its as simple as that. there will never be a time when there will be peace, its how our system works. all you need is millions of mindless followers to becon at you every command, and how we do that is scare tactics. we scare ppl into action so they dont have time to think for themselves. an attack on our own soil is just the ticket to get us back into war and making the rich even richer. dont you think its alittle odd at least that the ppl that profit the most off of war times are the ppl leading the charge (metophorically...like they would actually ever fight for their own country..lol)

[carrascopa]

lets use sense here people.. there is no conspiracy in regards to the 9/11 events..... it just really makes no sense ..




if you believe that the events that took place on 9/11 were set up by our government to go to war to get rich off oil n other shit.. than your an idiot!



bush would have to be almost as sick as hitler to pull that shit off...



i just dont see it.. what would the point be? to go to war with iraq?? come on.. ive heard it all....


to gain contol of oil???? i swear if that were the case than how come our gas is sooo damn high!


face it.. some terrorist extremist assholes jacked a few planes and crashed them into shit.. case closed

[Ran]

Oh course war stimulates economy. It always has and always will but it's not the point. Also, I'm giving the government too much credit? How so? I never credited a government source. I f*cking hate out government system. That's beside the point tho. Also, even before the Pearl Harbor attack, Japan was sending over bombs on pretimed ballons that would drop across the western coastline. The tactic? To start fires and such across the western borders so that we'd be too busy dealing with that to mess with Japan. Also, the government knew that it was happening but didn't take immediate action. Why? Because it had no interest in the war in Asia.

It sounds like you've got this huge beef with the government and I don't blame you. Hell, the system is jacked no doubt. Maybe you should go into politics and make a difference, rather than complain on forums.

Or do what I'm doing next year; leave the damn country and never look back. :)

[HyPer50]

anyone who thinks that 9/11 is a conspiracy theory is completely fucking stupid. I hope this video puts morons like the guy who runs reopen911 in their place.

Definatly agreed... It's what I've been saying the whole friggin' time, I am simply amazed and how many MORONS actually believe the US government somehow setup all this and attacked itself...

[99SI]

Something I always found funny, when Bush was running for president the first time he wanted the "missle defense shield". Many many experts on national security said that we would be much more likely to be attacked by terrorists on American soil than a missle attack. No one in the world had the technology nor the equipment to attack us with missles, not where we couldn't see well before hand anyway. He spent billions of dollars on that worthless shit. After 9/11 we never heard anything about this missle defense for quite some time. Although the money for it was being spent and development was still going on. I don't believe that there has been a successful test of this waste of BILLIONS to this date.

[HyPer50]

Something I always found funny, when Bush was running for president the first time he wanted the "missle defense shield". Many many experts on national security said that we would be much more likely to be attacked by terrorists on American soil than a missle attack. No one in the world had the technology nor the equipment to attack us with missles, not where we couldn't see well before hand anyway. He spent billions of dollars on that worthless shit. After 9/11 we never heard anything about this missle defense for quite some time. Although the money for it was being spent and development was still going on. I don't believe that there has been a successful test of this waste of BILLIONS to this date.

Missle defense? Are you referring to the "starwars" program, where they use lasers to destroy missles in midflight? if so, yes they have had succesful tests of it heh.

[illeagle]

nathan, come on now. your giving the government too much credit. the pearl harbor attack was our window into world warII. it was well know the japanese didnt like us but they had no intentions of starting a war with us...no one did, like you said we were a world power after WWI. but as always we had bigger plans. the attack whether real or staged (a big conspiracy theory) happened and we knew it was going to. lot and lots of ppl lost their lives that day, all for the profit of big business. war stimulates economy, its as simple as that. there will never be a time when there will be peace, its how our system works. all you need is millions of mindless followers to becon at you every command, and how we do that is scare tactics. we scare ppl into action so they dont have time to think for themselves. an attack on our own soil is just the ticket to get us back into war and making the rich even richer. dont you think its alittle odd at least that the ppl that profit the most off of war times are the ppl leading the charge (metophorically...like they would actually ever fight for their own country..lol)

if the plane was flying as low as they said it was then it would not have been picked up on a radar


Yes because its so hard to imagine that the government would do something like this? If it will kill its own president (Remember that guy by the name of JFK?) we would do this. Explain the insurance taken out on the 2 towers 2 weeks before the attack. Explain how bulks or airline stock were bought with a type of insurance that protects the invester from a big loss? Did you see the video that shows the implosions on the two WT towers as it started to collapse? People heard the implosion devices going off as they started to fall. A Plane would not have brought these towers down, they were designed to withstand these impacts, Dude, If you think we live in a country that our government has no blood on thier hands, you are in a fairy tale land. Vietnam was fought for one reason, MONEY!!! To make lots of it. The blood of how many soldiers are on the hands for that?

after 9/11 they did something on the WTC that showed why they collapsed. supposedly the beams in the center of the building were heated to the point were hot enough to bend, therefore collapsing the floors above, and the impact from the 30 or so floors falling on the others caused a chain reaction.

do not quote me on that because that was 4 years ago and I do not remember it that well

[R3RUN]

I believe the WTC was not part of a conspiracy. The buildings were never meant to withstand a plane of that size to hit with that much fuel on board. The collapse probably could have been prevented if the planes had hit much lower, but they didn't and no building can withstand a fuel fire like that.

Now the Pentagon is a little strange. Here you have one of the most heavily guarded places in the U.S. supposedly hit by a commercial airliner. I am pretty sure that Pentagon officials would have been notified when a plane was headed into their no fly zone and they would have responded by at least sending up fighters to intercept the plane. Why didnt this happen? The only people that know for sure will probably never tell. It would make sense that something could fly into the Pentagon though if the officials knew about it or had planned it themselves.

Also in all videos I have seen the "plane" is moving extremely fast. If cameras in slow-motion have a hard time seeing what happend what good is the human eye? One light post on the ground is not very convincing evidence that a plane went by either. With a wingspan that is well over 100 feet long a plane would have taken out more than one light post and possibly hit that large road sign in the background of one of the pictures. Then there is the wings. Where did they go? If the plane hit ground the wings should be near by right? I have yet to see a picture of wings on the ground outside the Pentagon. If the wings hit the building you would see one hell of a hole. Think about it, (I believe this is true but am not sure) the wings of an airliner hold the fuel for the trip. Therefore a large amount of fuel would have hit the building and ignited in a rather large explosion spread out over say 100 feet. This would probably have had enough force to knock a wall if the wing itself didnt.

Anyway just some things I thought about.

[Sport1.3]

Oh course war stimulates economy. It always has and always will but it's not the point. Also, I'm giving the government too much credit? How so? I never credited a government source. I f*cking hate out government system. That's beside the point tho. Also, even before the Pearl Harbor attack, Japan was sending over bombs on pretimed ballons that would drop across the western coastline. The tactic? To start fires and such across the western borders so that we'd be too busy dealing with that to mess with Japan. Also, the government knew that it was happening but didn't take immediate action. Why? Because it had no interest in the war in Asia.

It sounds like you've got this huge beef with the government and I don't blame you. Hell, the system is jacked no doubt. Maybe you should go into politics and make a difference, rather than complain on forums.

Or do what I'm doing next year; leave the damn country and never look back. :)

maybe i am... ;)

[99SI]

Missle defense? Are you referring to the "starwars" program, where they use lasers to destroy missles in midflight? if so, yes they have had succesful tests of it heh.
No, Starwars was Reagan and that never got into a testing phase, just a stupid ass idea. The Missle Defense Shield was Bush's baby and that involved shooting an incoming missle with a missle of our own. That has been tested twice now and has never been able to intercept the dummy missle that they were trying to hit.

[Sport1.3]

if the plane was flying as low as they said it was then it would not have been picked up on a radar


it would have to have gone OFF COURSE to then fly that low. an immediate indication to surrounding towers that there is a problem. there would have been an attempt at contact and if nothing, they would have sent scouter planes just liek the payne stewart plane crash. it was a no fly zone, also a government facility, do you think they are that stupid to not have any way of keeping an eye to the sky around that area?

[99SI]

I just want to point out that I do not neccessarily believe that the government committed the acts themselves. However, there are very large inconsistencies with quite a few things surrounding the attacks. A few of the things I pointed out. My only thing is that I am not against listening to reason and FACTS that could point to other conclusions than we were completely unaware of the fact that what happened on 9/11 was going to occur.

[Sledlude]

I believe the WTC was not part of a conspiracy. The buildings were never meant to withstand a plane of that size to hit with that much fuel on board.

yes they were. the buildings WERE designed to withstand much harsher impact, including that of a jet hitting them. they claimed that wtc towers were extremely strong due to their construction and could even handlle being hit by an airplane and not collapse way before 9/11. One man who said this way before 9/11 was killed that day, but he says this on tape, I saw it a few years before.

[illeagle]

it would have to have gone OFF COURSE to then fly that low. an immediate indication to surrounding towers that there is a problem. there would have been an attempt at contact and if nothing, they would have sent scouter planes just liek the payne stewart plane crash. it was a no fly zone, also a government facility, do you think they are that stupid to not have any way of keeping an eye to the sky around that area?

I was just saying lol, not speculating anything because I do not know

but then again...who does? none of us know the truth and this is all just jibba jabba, and I am sure the truth will not come out on a car forum

[YokotaS13]

I still believe the pentagon was hit by a plane. i have seen no evidence , regardless , that we hit it with a missle.
ditto

[Wurm]

Personally I really dont care it's not my problem I have better things to do with my time then worry about then what hit the pentagon

[Vteckidd]

conspiracy, no way, poor management of information , absolutely.

there are always going to be theories to reason why an how, its normal, look at JFK, Lincoln, an others. But it DOESNT HOLD ANY WATER when it comes down to the one remaining underlying fact, PROOF.

Clearly in the video we can see a plane hit the building, case closed. Remember, that day the FAA was scrambling all over the place to find what planes were hijcakced an what werent. alot of the focus was on New York, by the time they figured out that a plane was heading for the pentagon, ti was too late, our fighters had been scrambled but with no information as to what the next target (if there was one) was.

It was BAD communication.

Clearly, as carroscopa said, its a case of extremists carrying out a terrorist attack, nothing more. there WERE warning signs, however, do you know how many THREATS we get a DAY? its hard to figure out what ones are real an which ones are fake. why do you think we kept getting "terror alerts" after 9/11 from HS. they started reporting EVERYTHING that was credible, then people bitched that our intel sucks when nothing happened. so you cant have it both ways.

[R3RUN]

yes they were. the buildings WERE designed to withstand much harsher impact, including that of a jet hitting them. they claimed that wtc towers were extremely strong due to their construction and could even handlle being hit by an airplane and not collapse way before 9/11. One man who said this way before 9/11 was killed that day, but he says this on tape, I saw it a few years before.

Here (http://www.architectureweek.com/cgi-bin/awimage?dir=2002/0515&article=news_1-1.html&image=11809_image_3.jpg)

Here (http://www.architectureweek.com/cgi-bin/awimage?dir=2002/0515&article=news_1-1.html&image=11809_image_3.jpg)

Explanation of why the towers fell, the fires from the jet fuel did much more damage than the impact of the planes. This also explains to an extent why it may have appeared as though the building was imploded using explosives. The flashes of light seen in the building can be explained as shorted out transformers in the building itself.

The only reason I could see for the government attacking itself at the Pentagon is that the 9/11 attacks at the WTC left them a perfect disguise that may intice the people of the U.S. to go to war.

[JITB]

over 180 ppl died at the pentagon... has there been 1 name of any person that died there?

[Sport1.3]

conspiracy, no way, poor management of information , absolutely.

there are always going to be theories to reason why an how, its normal, look at JFK, Lincoln, an others. But it DOESNT HOLD ANY WATER when it comes down to the one remaining underlying fact, PROOF.

Clearly in the video we can see a plane hit the building, case closed. Remember, that day the FAA was scrambling all over the place to find what planes were hijcakced an what werent. alot of the focus was on New York, by the time they figured out that a plane was heading for the pentagon, ti was too late, our fighters had been scrambled but with no information as to what the next target (if there was one) was.

It was BAD communication.

Clearly, as carroscopa said, its a case of extremists carrying out a terrorist attack, nothing more. there WERE warning signs, however, do you know how many THREATS we get a DAY? its hard to figure out what ones are real an which ones are fake. why do you think we kept getting "terror alerts" after 9/11 from HS. they started reporting EVERYTHING that was credible, then people bitched that our intel sucks when nothing happened. so you cant have it both ways.

watch the older video and then the new one...they are the same but one is closer. they have the same footage. there is no plane in the original video, yet there is one in the video released 4 yrs later by the DOD after a huge law suit..... :lmfao: believe what you want

[Elbow]

like some said I dont know if WE did the attack, I believe the WTC better then the Pentagon. I am not saying our government did it, but they are hiding something, or they did do something. I think it is very interesting to look at all this, there is a backup for everything said. Even if the FAA was busy, they would have been watching DC, it is our capital. I am sure they had that looked on fairly hard. In the end I dont know a true answer. But that clip they released is the same I saw a few months ago, you see nothing. And did they ever release any names?

[illeagle]

over 180 ppl died at the pentagon... has there been 1 name of any person that died there?


they wouldnt release there names because they worked at the pentagon...like if a bomb blew up at CIA HQ in Langley they wouldn't release the names of the people that were hurt or injured there either.

that is just something WE do not need to know

[SPOOLIN]

it was said a long time ago that the "jet" was really aiming for the whitehouse which is right past the pentagon. fyi. THATS NOT A FUCKING JET IN THAT VIDEO. LOL

[Brett]

I agree, what is in that video is not a jet, and whatever it is as been doctored up also, That is not a untouched video.

[Sport1.3]

they wouldnt release there names because they worked at the pentagon...like if a bomb blew up at CIA HQ in Langley they wouldn't release the names of the people that were hurt or injured there either.

that is just something WE do not need to know

what ab the ~60 ppl supposedly on the flight then? where are their names? :confused:

[Xan]

it was said a long time ago that the "jet" was really aiming for the whitehouse which is right past the pentagon. fyi. THATS NOT A FUCKING JET IN THAT VIDEO. LOL

At 350+ MPH it would be difficult to identify a passenger jet traveling 10 ft above the ground in a 5 sec clip. I would like to know where second 20 went. Boeing 757's use 6-7 different engines. One of which was found in the wreckage. The wings were filled with fuel and the outer wall which was under construction had been coated with kevlar to make it more blast resistant. At those speeds the wings would have disentigrated(sp) on impact followed by the napalm cloud which would probably incinerate anything else, including seats, luggage and most likely bodies. Most plane crashes have more debris left over because CRASHING THEM WASN'T THE OBJECTIVE. When a plane crash-lands on a runway it's traveling a fraction of the speed the 757 that hit the Pentagon was said to have been traveling. The "AboveTopSecret" site link has convincing evidence and sources to back it.

[Sport1.3]

so they found 1 engine...where the fuck was/were the other(s)?? they also only found one wheel?? there is 4 on each side of the plane??

[Xan]

so they found 1 engine...where the fuck was/were the other(s)?? they also only found one wheel?? there is 4 on each side of the plane??

I can't help ya there. Never done a 350MPH crash simulation to see what makes it out and what doesn't(Although I bet it'd be something to see). I was just sayin that what little evidence was salvagable from the wreckage is consistant with a Boeing 757. The landing gear was most likely up on impact. Therefore, I would assume it was buried under ruble and debris along with the rest of the underbelly. I'm amazed they found as much as they did. The right engine struck a deisel generator as it came in. I wonder if people mistook that for the plane dragging the lawn. I've still got as many questions as the rest of you, but given the evidence(At least the evidence I've seen) I don't see anything that suggests a missle.

[RutRoe]

Here's a great question for those of you who think it's idiotic to have a government conspiracy.

Who's benefitting the most from our war in Iraq ?

How did Bush get involved with business originally, and specifically with his families business in oil ?

Is it not true that last year was reported as the highest grossing year on record for the Oil companies ? And guess who still has tons and tons and money wrapped up in it ?

Bush, Cheney, their friends and families... etc.

If you're too narrow minded to even explore the possibility that things like this "can" happen, then you're really being nieve and you're obviously not too clear on how many sick people there are out there.

I'm not saying what happened one way or another because I think it will take years for the real story to come out, but I think the only dumb people are the ones that think it's stupid to even think about.


One last question....


How many times when you've played that old wood stack building game Jenga did it collapse entirely upon itself ?

Ever had one do it right after the other?

Equal force and equal pressure in two totally different structures that were hit in different places at different times and yet went down totally UPON THEMSELVES ?

Yeah... I'm an idiot for not thinking that makes sense.

[RutRoe]

And Ruiner, I cant find where those wings of the plane went... can you help me out with that man ?

My neighbor one time had his door open on his car and he backed out of his garage really fast...it caught the side of the garage that was all concrete and really built up, then BAM...door blew off. Wierd thing was the door was gone and we never could find any pieces of it.

Except maybe the door handle, and a few paint chips, but they matched the car so I'm pretty sure it came from that one.

[Sport1.3]

also in the video..the instantaneous white flash gives it away...that is cordite. few things burn hot enough to cause a pure white reaction...jet fuel isnt one of them!!!

[99SI]

Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon. :D

[Sport1.3]

neither did lance armstrong!!!!

ibuwillgetshitfromeveryonenow!!!

[Crowml]

Ok, this to me is the final word on the matter. This video was created by a man who had to leave to the UK in order to escape death threats "and freaky incidents". Theres a story about him in Maxim 2 mos ago. Check out this video and have the balls to tell me you don't believe something is fishy.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

[Sport1.3]

nice find....i remember that vid

[JITB]

they wouldnt release there names because they worked at the pentagon...like if a bomb blew up at CIA HQ in Langley they wouldn't release the names of the people that were hurt or injured there either.

that is just something WE do not need to know


so i guess al the people on the plane worked for the pentagon also..

[SPOOLIN]

At 350+ MPH it would be difficult to identify a passenger jet traveling 10 ft above the ground in a 5 sec clip.


are you serious, that thing is a big mother fucker, i dont care how fast it was going, its going to take up a huge chunk of the frame whether the frame shows half the plane, front or back or whatever. the plane should be atleast 3/4 the height of the pentagon at 5-10feet off the ground, JETS ARE HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! the first frame that is appears, its all pointed and shit, whatever it is, a plane front end isnt pointy.

[Elbow]

did anyone hear a jet that was around it?

[R3RUN]

did anyone hear a jet that was around it?
???

[Elbow]

i mean anyone around the pentagon, whitnesses did anyone hear a jet?

[Sport1.3]

^there were ppl that said they saw a jet, some said something way smaller like a missle. some even said they smelled the cordite (expolsives material...not on a plane) after the "plane" hit

[Xan]

are you serious, that thing is a big mother fucker, i dont care how fast it was going, its going to take up a huge chunk of the frame whether the frame shows half the plane, front or back or whatever. the plane should be atleast 3/4 the height of the pentagon at 5-10feet off the ground, JETS ARE HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! the first frame that is appears, its all pointed and shit, whatever it is, a plane front end isnt pointy.

Well, You would ony get a 12.4 ft silhouette(sp). The plane was most likely going max speed and the video that was posted on here is shown at 1 frame per second. The object in question is only visible in one frame. I'm just saying. It looks like a plane to me.

[Xan]

it would have to have gone OFF COURSE to then fly that low. an immediate indication to surrounding towers that there is a problem. there would have been an attempt at contact and if nothing, they would have sent scouter planes just liek the payne stewart plane crash. it was a no fly zone, also a government facility, do you think they are that stupid to not have any way of keeping an eye to the sky around that area?

Keep in mind, we weren't aware this was a terrorist attack until after it happened. Killing civilians is bad for business.

[Sport1.3]

Keep in mind, we weren't aware this was a terrorist attack until after it happened. Killing civilians is bad for business.

what civilians....there is not an ounce of proof that anyone was even on that plane. they never released any names of anyone that was on that plane. :lmfao: for fuck sake they wont even release the black box info, which would have explained everything. honestly the civilians have nothing to do with the profit that was made from this act..the "war on terrorism" was the bread winner in this one.~60 ppl are expendable, hell thousands are...sad but true.

[Xan]

what civilians....there is not an ounce of proof that anyone was even on that plane. they never released any names of anyone that was on that plane. :lmfao: for fuck sake they wont even release the black box info, which would have explained everything. honestly the civilians have nothing to do with the profit that was made from this act..the "war on terrorism" was the bread winner in this one.~60 ppl are expendable, hell thousands are...sad but true.

We weren't at war on Sep. 11, 2001. There is no proof supporting any of the allogations you just made either. You say that thousands are expendable, but it's not that simple. If the governement really is behind the 9/11 attacks why didn't flight 93 hit it's target? If you can provide ANY proof(Not assumptions) supporting the conspiracy theory that everyone has jumped on board with, then I'll jump right on with you.

[lightspeed]

We weren't at war on Sep. 11, 2001. There is no proof supporting any of the allogations you just made either. You say that thousands are expendable, but it's not that simple. If the governement really is behind the 9/11 attacks why didn't flight 93 hit it's target? If you can provide ANY proof(Not assumptions) supporting the conspiracy theory that everyone has jumped on board with, then I'll jump right on with you.
Amen.
People LOVE to believe in conspiracy theories. People will believe what they want to believe. There is conspiracy video about this, and I agree it makes some interesting points, but a lot of it is conjecture and it just doesnt add up if you look at the whole thing.
If this was ever proven to be a conspiracy, it would be total hysteria and backlash against that political party that is in office. No party would risk that. The government is afraid to pass a realistic immigration bill because they dont want to offend certain people. You think they would risk pissing-off the entire country by doing something like that? No way.

[Sport1.3]

well prove to me they werent behind it...you cant do that either. 93 could have been screwed up....we will never know exaclty what the intended target was or why exactly it was off course.

[Xan]

well prove to me they werent behind it...you cant do that either. 93 could have been screwed up....we will never know exaclty what the intended target was or why exactly it was off course.

I can't prove our government didn't plan the 9/11 attacks. I'm saying there is no solid evidence that says they did. Just like there is no solid evidence(Really none at all) that anything OTHER than a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. Flight 93 was off course because it was hijacked. Families got phone calls from people on the plane. They made a movie about it. I am almost 100% positive we shot it down though.

[Sport1.3]

I can't prove our government didn't plan the 9/11 attacks. I'm saying there is no solid evidence that says they did. Just like there is no solid evidence(Really none at all) that anything OTHER than a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon.
media PROPAGANDA!!! you just believe what you are told. there is no way that was a 757 and your blind if you think so.the aftermath alone, as well as the video evidence should prove that much. airplanes dont combust in whitehot explosions, but purpose built explosives containing cordite do! the video that was released yesterday is most definitly doctored. it is nothing like the original that was leeked on the net 4 years ago. honestly their are fewer bits of "evidence" that is was a plane then their are it was something else. nothing, i mean nothing ab that crash adds up, and if the fact that the government is breaking the freedom of information act to hide the truth ab the situation doesnt set off an alarm in your brain, then well good luck in life buddy :lmfao:

[Xan]

media PROPAGANDA!!! you just believe what you are told. there is no way that was a 757 and your blind if you think so.the aftermath alone, as well as the video evidence should prove that much. airplanes dont combust in whitehot explosions, but purpose built explosives containing cordite do! the video that was released yesterday is most definitly doctored. it is nothing like the original that was leeked on the net 4 years ago. honestly their are fewer bits of "evidence" that is was a plane then their are it was something else. nothing, i mean nothing ab that crash adds up, and if the fact that the government is breaking the freedom of information act to hide the truth ab the situation doesnt set off an alarm in your brain, then well good luck in life buddy :lmfao:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
Did you even visit this site? Missle couldn't have hit the Pentagon.

[B16a2 Civic]

some nerds got too much time on they hands

[Xan]

some nerds got too much time on they hands

Slow day at work.

[Sport1.3]

haha thats all misleading information. its all one sided and doesnt explain any of the real hard questions, it just shows what evidence they do have to get you to form an opinion on the event that benifits them. like where the fuck where the wings? why was their only one wheel found then the landing gear has 4 per side? where was the other motor?why was this only captured on 1-2 of the hundreds of cameras that surround the perimeter on the building? where is the list of passengers/pilot? whay was that wing of the building and only that wing closed of for construction and for some reason being re-enforced with a kevlar lining to withstand a large impact? what was the white line on the lawn of the pentagon for that was seen several days before the incedent? why wont the DOD release the black box, when all the black box info from everyother downed flight is released to the public in the instance of a crash? where are the pitted/burnt marking on the lawn from the plane supposedly skidding across the ground? how is it that its possible the plane flew in at that angle and only inches off the ground and didnt destroy more than a light pole?where are all these ppl that say they saw a plane, i havent seen a single one on the news or anything? etc...i could go on and on for days.....nothing adds up

[Xan]

haha thats all misleading information. its all one sided and doesnt explain any of the real hard questions, it just shows what evidence they do have to get you to form an opinion on the event that benifits them. like where the fuck where the wings? why was their only one wheel found then the landing gear has 4 per side? where was the other motor?why was this only captured on 1-2 of the hundreds of cameras that surround the perimeter on the building? where is the list of passengers/pilot? whay was that wing of the building and only that wing closed of for construction and for some reason being re-enforced with a kevlar lining to withstand a large impact? what was the white line on the lawn of the pentagon for that was seen several days before the incedent? why wont the DOD release the black box, when all the black box info from everyother downed flight is released to the public in the instance of a crash? where are the pitted/burnt marking on the lawn from the plane supposedly skidding across the ground? how is it that its possible the plane flew in at that angle and only inches off the ground and didnt destroy more than a light pole?where are all these ppl that say they saw a plane, i havent seen a single one on the news or anything? etc...i could go on and on for days.....nothing adds up

If you would actually read the information on the page it would answer half the questions you just asked. This isn't an "every day crash." It was a terrorist attack. The black boxes may have classified information that may not be suitable for release during time of war(What that info could be I have no idea). If the government planned it, why would they REINFORCE the impact side? I've never heard of any line on the lawn days before the incident until now. From all the footage and pictures I've seen, no line is present at the time of impact. They may not even be related. I'll have to look into it and get back to you. The impacted side of the building was under construction. The cameras probably weren't even on. I was under the notion that the footage we've seen came from a gas station camera accross the street. You're right. SOME things don't add up, but none add up to conspiracy IMHO.

[Sport1.3]

the government planned it, why would they REINFORCE the impact side?

so as to not damage the building more than needed. it would also help insulate the rest of the buildings from the extreme forces of the "planes" impact and from the fire. odd they only decided to reinforce that side of the building and that just happen to be void of government employees???? and the plane just so happened to hit that exact side of the building with exact precision...bs

[Xan]

so as to not damage the building more than needed. it would also help insulate the rest of the buildings from the extreme forces of the "planes" impact and from the fire. odd they only decided to reinforce that side of the building and that just happen to be void of government employees???? and the plane just so happened to hit that exact side of the building with exact precision...bs

That part of the building was vacant because it was under renovation. As stated in the article, the building was being renovated because the materials used in its initial construction weren't stable(They needed the steel for battleships and the like). There were casualties at the Pentagon. As for "precision" flying. The Pentagon is the largest office building in the US and last I checked a pentagon only has 5 sides.

[Sport1.3]

That part of the building was vacant because it was under renovation. As stated in the article, the building was being renovated because the materials used in its initial construction weren't stable(They needed the steel for battleships and the like). There were casualties at the Pentagon. As for "precision" flying. The Pentagon is the largest office building in the US and last I checked a pentagon only has 5 sides.


so they "just happened" to be renovating the building when this all when down? lol why not the whole building?? its BS!! thats why. and as far as the casualties from gov employees, they have yet to state one name or show evidence of one sinlge body and never will. cough:cover up:cough :jerkit:

[lightspeed]

media PROPAGANDA!!! you just believe what you are told. there is no way that was a 757 and your blind if you think so.the aftermath alone, as well as the video evidence should prove that much. airplanes dont combust in whitehot explosions, but purpose built explosives containing cordite do! the video that was released yesterday is most definitly doctored. it is nothing like the original that was leeked on the net 4 years ago. honestly their are fewer bits of "evidence" that is was a plane then their are it was something else. nothing, i mean nothing ab that crash adds up, and if the fact that the government is breaking the freedom of information act to hide the truth ab the situation doesnt set off an alarm in your brain, then well good luck in life buddy :lmfao:
Danny, let me guess...youre also one of those people who believes we didnt actually go to the moon?
Ive got some beachfront property in Indiana Id like to sell you. Ill put together a very convincing documentary on how there really is a hidden ocean in that area ;)

[Sport1.3]

^lame....go drown yourself in the bath water..you're useless :D

[PhAtBoYMr2]

http://killtown.911review.org/video/flight77/pentagon_cctv.gif
here it is just noticing the missing second goes 19,21,22,23, on the frames, guessing they were missing a still when they made the gif
http://www.bedoper.com/eastman/small_plane/simulation1.jpg
also how the hell can you say thats a plane in the film...its no where near as big

whatever hits the pentagon blows up instantly, like it was some sort of missle or something that hit it. Im sure if a 757 hit the pentagon it wouldnt blow up in a second, im sure it would go through the bulding and then blow up.

From the video it doesnt look like a plane at all, maybe if you slow down the video you can tell, but from the looks of how big that fire ball is and how fast it happend it looks like a cruise missle

[Xan]

so they "just happened" to be renovating the building when this all when down? lol why not the whole building?? its BS!! thats why. and as far as the casualties from gov employees, they have yet to state one name or show evidence of one sinlge body and never will. cough:cover up:cough :jerkit:

Would you re-floor your entire house all at one time? You renovate in sections. Seeing as how the Pentagon houses the Department of Defense, along with other various government organizations, you can't just move them into trailers on the back lot. As far as displaying maimed bodies on national television, not to mention those of government employees, they usually get clearance from the families of the deceased first. They also have to have a body to display. Fire cremates. It does it even better when mixed with jet fuel. How often do they show gunshot victims and brutal car wreck victims on TV? How often does someone tell you they lost a loved one and you ask them to "prove it."

[lightspeed]

Its amazing how everyone one here is simply restating almost verbatim what they have been fed in the conspiracy movie.
How do you know how a 757 is supposed to blow-up like when it hits a solid wall? Are you an aeronautical and pyrotechnical engineer? All the BS conjecture on that movie comes from scenarios that do not fully mimic this incident. Yes, jet fuel may not violently explode when ignited in the wings. But what if it is compressed with all the force of that volume of it striking a wall at 500 mph? Have you ever lite a trail of gasonline sitting on the ground? Did it blow up? I have...and no it didnt. It flamed up. Pour that same amount into a sealed can and light it on fire, and itll explode violently. Its totally different scenario.
I agree its hard to see a 757 in that video. But, the plane was traveling over 500 MPH. So, lets do the math...
500 miles/hr=2640000 ft/hr=733 ft/sec. A 757 is 155 feet long. Its very likely that you would never actually see the plane if they were only showing 1 frame per second of the video feed.
Guys, this is silly. Dont just suck up the BS you see on TV and use some sense.
Yes, the government covers up stuff...no doubt. But this is absurd.

[Xan]

whatever hits the pentagon blows up instantly, like it was some sort of missle or something that hit it. Im sure if a 757 hit the pentagon it wouldnt blow up in a second, im sure it would go through the bulding and then blow up.

From the video it doesnt look like a plane at all, maybe if you slow down the video you can tell, but from the looks of how big that fire ball is and how fast it happend it looks like a cruise missle

It's hard to judge time and distance in that video because it's filmed at a frame per second. The jet would have been traveling 350+MPH. If a missle hit and did blow upon impact on the outside wall, I doubt it would have made it to the 3rd level.

[Elbow]

in the clip, i am not for sure, would there be a shaddow at any point of a plane flying bye? even a SMALL tenth millisecond? i know it was going very fast. but just asking.

[Xan]

in the clip, i am not for sure, would there be a shaddow at any point of a plane flying bye? even a SMALL tenth millisecond? i know it was going very fast. but just asking.

Depends on which way it cast. The video quality is pretty shitty too.

Edit: The camera that caught the footage released to Judicial Watch filmed at a rate of one frame per second. If the above calculations are correct and the plane was moving 733ft/second then I'm surprised it was caught on tape at all. I couldn't get the judicial watch link to work, but I found it on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75Gga92WO8 You can see the nose of the plane enter the frame at around 1 min 20 secs in. A cop car passes directly under the camera maybe 20 secs before the plane hits. It gives a good size comparison.

[Sport1.3]

believe what you will...like said above we are only restating ourselves over and over and its all opinion based. whether we all believe what happened that day or not it was a horrible experience for everyone. we will all have to agree to disagree. i personally am a very questioning individual and i never take anything at just face value, that is why i am so skeptical. so i hope all of you take this thread lightheartedly. thanks for all the great debate...lets try and source new facts now

[R3RUN]

When was the last time you saw a 757 throwing off that kind of a jet stream?


If a missle hit and did blow upon impact on the outside wall, I doubt it would have made it to the 3rd level.

Its called a bunker buster. They worked wonders in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also I would really like to see the videos taken from the gas station and the hotel.

[lightspeed]

believe what you will...like said above we are only restating ourselves over and over and its all opinion based. whether we all believe what happened that day or not it was a horrible experience for everyone. we will all have to agree to disagree. i personally am a very questioning individual and i never take anything at just face value, that is why i am so skeptical. so i hope all of you take this thread lightheartedly. thanks for all the great debate...lets try and source new facts now
Agreed. I admit that there are things that dont add up. The bottom line is that none of us, including the "expert" on the conspiracy movie, are qualified to "prove" anything. This will be one of the great unsolved debates of all time.

[Elbow]

right i dont think anyone on here has an answer we can just say what we think and any evidence. i think though the real answer will be proven sometimes, with as much facts as possible and evidence. why cant the US just show us video from the gas station or something to shut people in doubt up, like me lol. i dont think america did it, but i dont think it was a plane.

[Xan]

When was the last time you saw a 757 throwing off that kind of a jet stream?



Its called a bunker buster. They worked wonders in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also I would really like to see the videos taken from the gas station and the hotel.

I didn't see a jetstream in the video. When was the last time you saw a 757 going 500+MPH 10ft off the ground? Tibbett thought that a plane wouldn't blow up instantly on impact, so he suggested a missle. I suggested otherwise. It's true that a bunker buster would penetrate that deep(Probably deeper). It's also true that a 7ft thick 125ft long piece of steel traveling 500MPH would do the same. Also, bunker busters penetrate, then explode. That clearly isn't the case here.

[Sport1.3]

well from the video you really cant make it out but the object may not have exploded on impact. remember the video is 1 fram every sec. that would have given the "object" more than enough time to fully penetrate, then explode. remember the initial hole made by the "object" was no more than 12-14' wide, suggesting that the explosion took place further into the buildings structure. this both helps and hurts my arguement...discuss

[Elbow]

do some missles explode past they hit something? im not sure about missles and how they work...

[PhAtBoYMr2]

do some missles explode past they hit something? im not sure about missles and how they work...

yes some missles do. There are alot of differnt missles out there with alot of differnt functions...If you have ever seen a real life missle blast on tv or whatever it looks almost identical to what hits the pentagon, I can tell you right now whoever think thats a 757 is very wrong, the flames in the video go out in a matter of like 10 seconds...i think gallons and gallons of jet fuel would burn much longer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad8HRN-ue0w&search=missle%20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2cDWifGZ74&search=missle%20

[Sport1.3]

depends on the type. some are made to explode after impact while others like explained earlier penetrate and then explode (bunker buster)

[Xan]

yes some missles do. There are alot of differnt missles out there with alot of differnt functions...If you have ever seen a real life missle blast on tv or whatever it looks almost identical to what hits the pentagon, I can tell you right now whoever think thats a 757 is very wrong, the flames in the video go out in a matter of like 10 seconds...i think gallons and gallons of jet fuel would burn much longer

Smart bombs and cruise missles look similar. Guided missles(Air to air, surface to air, ground to air, and air to ground) only pack enough payload to destroy vehicles and infantry. However, a guided explosive(Smart bomb, tomahawk, or otherwise) still doesn't explain the damage to lamp posts, vehicles, or the generator among other things. The generator, fence, etc. were hit on entry. A cruise missle is neither big enough, nor does it provide enough thrust to crash through all of the above mentioned items unscathed and still penetrate 3 levels deep into the Pentagon. Jet fuel burning in an uncontrolled state can burn rather quickly.

[Elbow]

There is equal evidence but the video itself just seems strange. I still dont think it was a 747. Another plane something smaller, missle, whatever, maybe. But that explosion looks like one of the explosions on a movie. Also, did the WTC burn for weeks due to jet fuel and all? How long did the Pentagon burn? Just curious if anyone knows or if that even matters.

[man]

Its called a bunker buster. They worked wonders in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Haha, not even close, but good try

[Stormhammer]

. Also, did the WTC burn for weeks due to jet fuel and all? How long did the Pentagon burn? Just curious if anyone knows or if that even matters.

hmm, good point

[Xan]

There is equal evidence but the video itself just seems strange. I still dont think it was a 747. Another plane something smaller, missle, whatever, maybe. But that explosion looks like one of the explosions on a movie. Also, did the WTC burn for weeks due to jet fuel and all? How long did the Pentagon burn? Just curious if anyone knows or if that even matters.

Good question. I think the WTC burnt for so much longer because the fire department couldn't actually get to the fire until the buildings came down. Even then, the fire was burning underneath all of the rubble. The "loose change" video talks about how hot jet fuel burns and say it couldn't have gotten hot enough to melt the gold and stuff found at the bottom of the WTC. If you think about it though, everything falling on top of the fire insulated it almost like a giant oven. It's kind of hard to know exactly how hot it really got. The same can't be said of the Pentagon crash. The bulk of the explosion took place outside the building. The fire wasn't 60+ floors up either so the firemen could actually combat it when they reached the scene.

[Elbow]

Oh ok, well just throwing questions out. This thread died where did everyone go? lol

[SPOOLIN]

they cruise at 540mph but theres no way to control a plane that is going down enough to precisely hit the building like that. if it was going 540mph it would have fucked a lot more shit up being as large as it is. it may have been going 200 something, but not the full 540mph. no way.

[Elbow]

So you are saying there is no way it was a plane like they said, or no way it was going what they said?

[Xan]

they cruise at 540mph but theres no way to control a plane that is going down enough to precisely hit the building like that. if it was going 540mph it would have fucked a lot more shit up being as large as it is. it may have been going 200 something, but not the full 540mph. no way.

With training and a little luck I think it could happen. Every pilot had flight time as well as commercial flight simulation time. It wasn't a "precise" attack per say. He was aiming for the Pentagon and he hit it.

[SPOOLIN]

So you are saying there is no way it was a plane like they said, or no way it was going what they said?

whatever was in that video was obviously going faster and doing it more precisely than any jetliner going that fast could do.

[Elbow]

true