Prophecy???

[Georgiaman]

Hey guys i am a strong believer in that people today can hear God and give prophecy and heal the sick and do all kinda of miracles through the name of Jesus i just want to know what yalls views on that is???

[Killer]

I'M WITH U! God can do anything He wants to... And so can we... through Him. (not that i'm a great prophet, but...) My spiritual gift is prophecy.... don't know how to use it.. and i've never seen the future.., but i know prophecy is my gift...

[Georgiaman]

sweet yea Rocky Abernathy told me i was going to preach the gospel to foreign nations and convict a whole country (Rocky is a preacher of a big church in cartersville)

[Kelly]

True, I am a firm believer in all of the above too. We have so much power thru God.

Matthew 17:
19Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"
20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."[a]


I also believe in prophets. A lotta ppl think it's weird. There's a preacher that often comes to my church and will call ppl out and tell them their problems and how God is gonna fix it. It's awesome!

[metalman]

It is true that such gifts exists. The difficulty is that many...even most claiming such are not genuine. The devil duplicates everything of Gods so far as he can, for every truth there is a counterfeit. Many counterfeits are being passed off and belived as genuine. Benny Hinn would be an example of a counterfeit. He's widely accepted however. This is why I say to the Christian, you'd better know your Bible so you can tell the difference.

[Killer]

mmmmmm shedabahaya! lol ole benny hinn....

kelly... (u left out part of ur verses... and quit talkin about josh...)

[Kelly]

Honestly, I know it's hard to believe the whole Benny Hinn thing- but my aunt's brother got healed from severe Diabeties (sp?) when going to one of his meetings. And I know a preacher that was kinda wishy washy on how he felt about Benny and was determined that he would not "fall down in the spirit" when Benny waived his hand out over the audience. He said he honestly just couldn't stand up because the presence of God was so strong.

So I dunno... I'm kinda ify on him.

[Kelly]

kelly... (u left out part of ur verses... and quit talkin about josh...)

Um, it's Matthew 17: 19-20. And i'm talkin about his dad. :rolleyes:

[metalman]

Because you fall down means nothing.
Let me call something to your attention...a small detail I agree, but a telling one.
In the Bible, NOT ONCE did anyone stricken by Gods presense EVER fall on their back.
Only did they under their OWN POWER fall on their face. ;)

And theres alot more about Mr Hinn....he doesnt meet any of the Biblical tests.
Does some of his "magic" work? Maybe. Does that prove he's of God? NOPE!

[Georgiaman]

Yea i dont know but the Bible does say the most elect might be decieved you have to understand that that is what the devil is (deception) he will do anyting and evrything he can to get more people to fall even if it is healing people but i mean idk benny hinn could be a good guy but my mom is a real basher on him lol from the time i was like 10 she was tellen me how fake he was so idk that between him and God

[Kelly]

To Metalman:
My lord... I'm sorry, I'm not sure if he fell on his face or his back or his head or his belly. I don't know that that matters. I've fallen out in the spirit before- are you saying I did it on my own? I sure hope not. You probably shouldn't judge anyone buddy...

[Kelly]

I'm not saying I'm a follower of Benny Hinn. I've never even met the guy. I know there's a lot of controversy over him and I would never pay money to go to one of his shows or whatever you wanna call it, but I don't think it's my place to say whether he is used by God or not.

[metalman]

Kelly, I am not judging Mr Hinns eternal salvation, judging him or you.
I will not do such. However, I can judge 'works' and whether they be of God.
I know the Bible tests of prophecy and other gifts. I will always use those to 'test' what others tell me is of God.

If I were you, I'd rely on Gods Word before ever relying on my eyes or feelings.
But you do whatever you wish. :)

[Georgiaman]

Its not a big deal but all Metalman is saying is that it is really easy to fall into something that id claiming God that is reality is not and it can really get to you after a while because us as humans are gulliable so we have to pray to God to give us a clear vision from whats of god and whats not. And also dig in to the word because it is never wrong...

[metalman]

Also, I didnt intend to turn this discussion to Benny Hinn. I apologize.
The principles concering the gifts of God is the subject.

[Romeyo07]

Benny Hinn doesn't bring God to where he's at...it's the praises of the people there that believe God can work with them that do.

I believe in those mentioned in the first post. I've been on the receiving end of it, and have seen it first hand in front of my eyes. That's just one more thing that affirms my faith. No one can tell me any different...it's too real.

[Georgiaman]

Hey its all good Metalman...haha you remind me of a friend of mind named Jason Hes a great man of God and he like knows the bible left and right. I call him the living Bible but what are some of yall experances with the Holy spirit i would like to know Healing, prophecy, etc................

[Kelly]

I know. I pray for God to open my spiritual eyes to detect real and false prophecys. Like I said, I'm very ify about it... But I have sensed God's presence so strongly that it has made me fall to my knees. I have absolutely no doubt in my head that it was His presence...

[Kelly]

Hey its all good Metalman...haha you remind me of a friend of mind named Jason Hes a great man of God and he like knows the bible left and right. I call him the living Bible but what are some of yall experances with the Holy spirit i would like to know Healing, prophecy, etc................

Where do I begin. Like I've said before, I'm penecostal and we are big time believers in the Holy Spirit so I've experienced & saw a lot. We believe in in the laying on of hands and speaking in tongues as well (here we go). Anyways, the thing that sticks out the most was when I was on a Mexico mission trip and I saw a lady who was deaf get healed. That was amazing!

[metalman]

Fact - Most people rely almost completely on their emotions, feelings, and what they see with their eyes concerning manifestations of the gifts of God.

That is one dangerous fact! The Bible teaches clearly that anyone bearing the TRUE gift of prophecy will give words that ALWAYS come 100% true to the very letter.

"The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God."

- Benny Hinn

"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."

- Benny Hinn.

I am prophesying this! Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is about to appear physically in some churches, and some meetings, and to many of His people, for one reason - to tell you He is about to show up! To Wake Up! Jesus is coming saints! You have held back from the Lord in the past, don't you dare do it now. The day will come you'll stand before Him and give an answer. How dare we not give to God. How dare we hold back."

- Benny Hinn.

He has given this "prophecy" severl times that Jesus will physically appear.



From Scripture....

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

When/how will Jesus appear???

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This ONLY scratches the surface.

[Kelly]

I told you I was wishy washy and not a follower of him. I just know of someone who was healed-not by him, but by God- at one of his meetings.

[Romeyo07]

Kelly, why did you go "here we go" when you mentioned speaking in tounges? I have your answer, waiting on your response.......

[Kelly]

Because a lot of people don't understand it and will "flame" it...

So go ahead...

[Romeyo07]

1 Corinthians 14

There's your answer. One of the biggest issues with pentecostals (mind you I was pentecostal from birth to 19) is just that. They're more concerned with speaking in tongues and dancing in the spirit than anything else.

That chapter will enlighten you. Paul made it a point to write a chapter strickly on this subject. Notice out of all the gifts listed in the bible, it's the last one.

I can go on about pentecostal churches, but I wont. It's a discussion I prefer to have one on one rather than type it all out. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I was raised pentecostal. I was taught the bible heavily, very strict, and I saw how bad some churches can get with their rules and regulations.

[Kelly]

Ok, that chapter doesn't make me believe any differently. I believe that, like it says, it's a spititual gift between you and God- unless there is a interpretor, then it is for all who are listening. I'm not saying I preach to everyone about it. Our pastor doesn't preach it all the time either. Does it happen during service- yes, but there is always an interpretor when a message in tongues is given outloud.
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way].

[Romeyo07]

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying the pentecostal church is more concerned with doing that than what Paul's saying you should be more concerned with.

You said it yourself, it should be done in a fitting and orderly way. If everyone is doing it, it's not orderly at all.

[Kelly]

I wouldn't go as far to say that every Penecostal church is like that. I do however, think some churches preach hell (as mentioned in other threads) when it should be more focused around salvation.

My definition of speaking in tongues is the holy spirit speaking thru you to God. It is a special prayer language that we don't always understand. We don't think everyone should be yelling it out in the middle of service unless there is an interpretor. Sometimes during worship people may speak it (not loudly but like a prayer- while worshiping). Do you see what I'm saying?

[metalman]

I will say is this, uttering jibberish doesnt fit the "everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way" scenario. Also, except for a couple verses, the Bible speaks of tongues as a gift that involves speaking so that OTHERS HEAR IN THEIR OWN TONGUE (language) which makes much sense and is what the gift of tongues (languages) is all about.
Do I believe in the gift of tongues? Yes.
Do I believe that most people who claim this gift are speaking under the power of God? No.
Do I believe they 'feel' they are? Yes.
I think most are mislead by their church, its teachings and FEELINGS as to what the true gift entails. And this is true of other gifts as well. I think people underestimate the power of human emotion.
Plus many are made to feel that if they don't manifest a gift there is something wrong with their spirituality. There is no "edification" in jibberish.

Do I expect to convince others?? No, not really. This is for pentecostals a "favorite thing" as already mentioned, just like eternal burning torment is for mosts baptists, and
the rosary and adoration of mary are for catholics. Tongues is also a deeply emotional subject which is part of the problem.

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, or their church, nor will I judge the individuals.

[Georgiaman]

hey guys i dont not flame Tongues i can speak tongues but i do not go to a pentacostal church i believe that tongues are a gift and it shoud be tought that way i mean people today are buying into the mundane way that people dont speak tongoues and heal people and see the future and prophecy is not just seeing the future it is knowledge that you speak through your tongoue that incourages people like for example i felt like one service i was suppouse to go up in front of the church and give a word tp the church about letting your burdans free and fixing your eyes on Jesus and after the service the women i didnt really know at the time told me it was really wierd i said that because she was asking God to help her let go of her burdans that night right before i went up infront of the church she said it lifted that burdan off of her and she was filling free with Jesus the whole night and i believe that is somewhat prophecy but i didnt not tell the future

[metalman]

I told you I was wishy washy and not a follower of him. I just know of someone who was healed-not by him, but by God- at one of his meetings.

I never suggested you were a 'follower' or meant to imply it.
I only offer up evidence of what I speak so all can judge for themselves.

[Kelly]

Ok, that's cool. God will pour out His spirit to all those who want it and are spiritually prepared enough to handle it. I don't know how to describe it and I won't be able to. It's truly life-changing though.

[babowc]

prophecy.. would it be considered prophecy?
well.. i believe the time of judgement will soon come.. i actually want to see it before i die.
i bet i sound like some freak.

[Georgiaman]

nah man not at all it quite normal from what i hear i believe it will be in my lifespan and i believe i will preach the gospel in the end times also....

[buddha@TeamFX]

I was also raised Penecostal...well Holiness...and am very proud I was!!..Speaking in tongues is a gift from god and not every one has a close enough walk with him to have it...some may think they do but they don't...it takes alot of prayer and obedience to receive it...

[metalman]

I...some may think they do but they don't...it takes alot of prayer and obedience to receive it...

Very true. Obedience is a Biblical principle in addition to others that precedes any gift of the Spirit. That's one reason why I can honestly say that those who openly defy Gods Word dont keep all the commandments of God don't bear the true gifts of the Holy Spirit. That 'test' alone weeds out the majority who say/think they do. They may be under the inluence of A spirit, but not the Holy One.

Another factor is the purpose of the gifts. Just asking for it and praying for it does not comprise the Biblical criteria in total. In most cases where supposed gifts are manifested the specific Biblical purpose for such gifts are mistunderstood, overlooked and ignored...another reason one should question the source of such. ;)

[buddha@TeamFX]

Very true. Obedience is a Biblical principle in addition to others that precedes any gift of the Spirit. That's one reason why I can honestly say that those who openly defy Gods Word dont keep all the commandments of God don't bear the true gifts of the Holy Spirit. That 'test' alone weeds out the majority who say/think they do. They may be under the inluence of A spirit, but not the Holy One.

Another factor is the purpose of the gifts. Just asking for it and praying for it does not comprise the Biblical criteria in total. In most cases where supposed gifts are manifested the specific Biblical purpose for such gifts are mistunderstood, overlooked and ignored...another reason one should question the source of such. ;)

I agree 100%...We had a conversation the other night about this

[Romeyo07]

I was also raised Penecostal...well Holiness...and am very proud I was!!..Speaking in tongues is a gift from god and not every one has a close enough walk with him to have it...some may think they do but they don't...it takes alot of prayer and obedience to receive it...

But why so much emphasis on receiving it? The Pentecostal church puts too much emphasis on having this gift, when clearly Paul says there are so many more useful gifts than that one. Being raised Pentecostal and now looking back, I've found what I've just stated to be all too true in every Pentecostal church I've been to.

There isn't a spiritual "benchmark" to hit before you receive a gift. If someone can speak in tongues, it doesn't prove him or her no more closer to God than another. You might want to reconsider your feelings on that.

[metalman]

But why so much emphasis on receiving it? The Pentecostal church puts too much emphasis on having this gift, when clearly Paul says there are so many more useful gifts than that one. Being raised Pentecostal and now looking back, I've found what I've just stated to be all too true in every Pentecostal church I've been to.

There isn't a spiritual "benchmark" to hit before you receive a gift. If someone can speak in tongues, it doesn't prove him or her no more closer to God than another. You might want to reconsider your feelings on that.

Youre correct. The Bible indicates that tongues is the "least" of the gifts.
I have pentecostal loved ones and their churches all place great emphasis on this. Every pentecostal church I have ever had contact with seems to follow the same vein.

And your also correct I think in stating that tongues isnt a spiritual benchmark. To regard it as such TOTALLY IGNORES the purpose for the gifts given in Scripture. This is where churches err. In most churches the purpose is never fulfilled.
It is instead a "ritual" based upon personal feelings and emotions. Because of this you will get a serious emotional response if you approach this subject.
People are too willing to base their faith upon feelings rather then the explicit plain Word of God.

[Romeyo07]

Having experienced the Pentecostal environment, I know it is an "unstable" environment that can turn people away. Again, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.

My general statement to the pentecostal church: get your priorities straight. You've scared away a lot of people, and have put too much fear in the hearts of doubting Christians. I speak from personal experience.

[Kelly]

Does it really say it is the Least of all the spiritual gifts, or are you just saying that because it's listed last? I understand that it's one of the only gifts that doesn't necessarily aid others in their walk with God (except for when it's interpreted), but it is still a deep connection between you and God.


And also, I don't see why you guys say Pentecostals focus to much on Speaking In Tongues. I wouldn't say my church is like that in any way. I've been to several church of God's that I could say the same thing about. There have been few sermons that I have heard preached on Speaking in Tongues.

I can say that I experienced a huge change in my life when I received the holy spirit. The biggest difference (besides my prayer life) is that I feel way more convicted about things that I never would've before. Sometimes at just the thought. The holy spirit comforts and helps make your walk with God more.. well... holy. Maybe the preachers you are referring to just want everyone to experience this wonderful comforter as well... It doesn't make it right, i guess, but maybe that's the reason it is "pushed" so much.

[metalman]

Does it really say it is the Least of all the spiritual gifts, or are you just saying that because it's listed last? I understand that it's one of the only gifts that doesn't necessarily aid others in their walk with God (except for when it's interpreted), but it is still a deep connection between you and God.

Read the Bible list of gifts...there is a specific order to it, thats not random, and there is a purpose. The fact tongues is a "lesser" gift then apostleship or prophecy although a fact, is less important then the PURPOSE for ALL gifts.
This is where churches err.

I understand your view of tongues "not aiding others in their walk", thats in keeping with customary pentecostal theology, I am sure no doubt you were taught that by honest sincere people HOWEVER I don't find that to be in keeping with Biblical theology. Therin lies the problem.

[Romeyo07]

Does it really say it is the Least of all the spiritual gifts, or are you just saying that because it's listed last? I understand that it's one of the only gifts that doesn't necessarily aid others in their walk with God (except for when it's interpreted), but it is still a deep connection between you and God.


And also, I don't see why you guys say Pentecostals focus to much on Speaking In Tongues. I wouldn't say my church is like that in any way. I've been to several church of God's that I could say the same thing about. There have been few sermons that I have heard preached on Speaking in Tongues.

I can say that I experienced a huge change in my life when I received the holy spirit. The biggest difference (besides my prayer life) is that I feel way more convicted about things that I never would've before. Sometimes at just the thought. The holy spirit comforts and helps make your walk with God more.. well... holy. Maybe the preachers you are referring to just want everyone to experience this wonderful comforter as well... It doesn't make it right, i guess, but maybe that's the reason it is "pushed" so much.

Does it say it, no, not directly...however Paul does say that of all of them, it is better to have the others than this one. Not to discredit it, but to show that so much more can come from the others than this one. If I speak in tongues, I benefit from it (most of the time), but if I can teach (for example), many others benefit from it.

BTW, you received the holy spirit when you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior. You may have experienced the gift afterwards though. That's another issue with the Pentecostal Church...but I don't want to jump into Pentecostal bashing.

[Kelly]

BTW, you received the holy spirit when you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior. You may have experienced the gift afterwards though. That's another issue with the Pentecostal Church...but I don't want to jump into Pentecostal bashing.

I said that wrong. Our church has taught us that. We believe that Speaking in Tongues is just "evidence".

And I totally understand that- the fact that teaching or prophecying helps others when speaking in tongues only helps me (unless interpreted). I have already said that.

[metalman]

So what are you saying? What do you think that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is?

Very good question. I must go now...but I will give an answer to that when I return later today. I look forward to others answers to that as well.

[Kelly]

Sorry, I deleted it cuz it looked as though it was directed to Romeo. Anyways, my question still stands...
"What is your opinion of why God gave us the Holy Spirit?"

[Romeyo07]

My opinion on why the Holy Spirit is with us doesn't matter when it is clearly mentioned in the bible why.

[Kelly]

My opinion has already been stated: He's our comforter & he guides us along the path of holyness in our everyday life.

John 14: 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

[metalman]

First...the Holy Spirit is God.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

This verse shows that the Holy Spirit IS God, in the same way Jesus is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is rejecting God.

The work of the Holy Spirit

Participated in creation - Gen 1:2
Gives life (quickens) - Rom 8:11; 1Pet 3:18
Is a Comforter - John 14:26
Speaks - 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 14:13
Teaches - John 14:26
Reveals the future - Luke 2:26
Bears Witness - Rom 8:16
Guides to the truth - John 16:13
Reproves - John 16:8
Makes Intercession - Rom 8:26
Dwells within the believer - 1 Cor 6:19
Distributes gifts - 1 Cor 12:11
Seals the believer - Eph 1:13, 4:30
Invites the Sinner - Rev 22:17


Also….
The Holy Spirit Can be Blasphemed - Mat 12:31-32

You will notice that the primary work of the Holy Spirit revolves around creation which in this context is RE CREATION of the human heart, bringing conviction to the human heart , teaching and sealing that individual into the truth. The Holy Spirit also makes intercession for sinners, part of that same work.

The Holy Spirit speaks to every person, whether they know it or not. We call the small voice within us our concience. It is that but the prompting that we feel to accept truth and do the right thing comes from the Holy Spirit. When a person totally rejects that voice, that prompting, repeatedly until they can no longer hear it they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit which the Bible says is the only unpardonable sin. Why? Because in order to have sin forgiven one must sincerely ask from a contrite heart. If a person can no longer hear the promptings of that Holy Spirit they will not have the ability to recognize their sin or ask forgiveness.

The gift of tongues is given to only to some, when needed to futher the gospel. The Holy Spirit is given to ALL who seek it honestly.

The PRIMARY function of the Holy Spirit is the conviction of the soul, the teaching, the inviting, the sealing, the reproof , correction & comfort. The purpose of ALL these is bring to Gospel to life WITHIN the human that the human may spread that gospel truth of salvation through Christ to others.
That is in a nutshell the single purpose for ALL the gifts of the Spirit.

The Word of God is "the sword of the Spirit," Ephesians 6:17. That means the Bible is the cutting edge of the Holy Spirit's ministry of conviction. No one can be guided in truth without reference to the Scriptures.

The evidence of indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the human heart is visible outwardly in the fruits of the Spirit. Their presense indicate the Holy Spirit at work in that person. If a person is filled with the Holy Spirit their changed life will be a witness of that.