20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity

[4dmin]

Here is some good reading... :goodjob:

http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html#numberfifteen

[Hulud]

Here is some good reading... :goodjob:

http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html#numberfifteen
its all good and well, but if those 20 reasons really makes someone not believe than that person is not believing for wrong reasons

but i do agree with most of it

[1439/2000]

That's dumb. Any completely one sided argument is dumb. I can see being the devil's advocate but...Christians are evil, Jews are wicked, Blacks this, Hispanics that, Muslims are this because of this. It just doesnt add up to anything in my book.

[metalman]

On a couple points...

Generally, I have found from careful study of the original languages and meanings that the so called "contradictions" in the Bible are in the minds of the uneducated reader only. Also the idea that Christ/God etc are real yet the Bible is inaccurate is to accept the notion that an all powerful God who can create the world is somehow unable to preserve the integrity of his only Book or truly inspire and direct it's authors. This isnt even logical.

As for slavery...it is true that Columbus, a devout Catholic, introduced slavery to this hemisphere with the blessing of the church which regard heathen as heritics deserving of death anyway. It is also true that southern protestants were steeped in the tradition/greed of slavery. In truth our whole country has suffered because of it and it continues to effect us to this day....which stands to reason...."...visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..."...the effects of sins are passed down.

[Darling Nikki]

I hate that picture. I would probably beat the shit out of that guy if I saw him, but yes I know everyone had their own opinions. I knw I know.

[Jaimecbr900]

Well, first of all, it's easy to present a case strictly on pulling out PORTIONS of any text and twisting it to fit your needs. Notice how none of the quoted text the author uses to prove a point ever has any notations to previous context that either preceeded it or followed it. In other words, it's convinient to take things out of context and make it seem like what you wanted it to say. We all could do that. I'm sure we could do the same treatment to his work if we wanted.

Second, just about every point he brings up can actually be agreed with even by the Christian side. Why deny there is a Heaven and a Hell? IF you're scared of one or the the other, what's wrong with that? Now, I agree with him that a preacher shouldn't get up on a pulpit and fire down at parishoners with "scare tactics", ie. fire and brimstone sermons. But truth is an absolute defense IMO. If someone were to ask me if there is a "hell", I'd answer yes. If they inquired more as to what I believed it was like, I'd tell them. If after all that THEY were scared, that's like shooting the messanger. Some things are scary. Death is scary to most, yet it doesn't change the FACT that it happens, right? So, why would telling someone about it make it any worse? It just IS.

Finally, and more importantly, people will believe what they want to believe the majority of the time. If they have ingrained in their psychy that God doesn't exist, they will find supporters of their beliefs to agree with them. It's only natural. So, for him to generalize certain things as : Christopher Columbus= Catholic; Christopher Columbus used slaves= Christianity abdocates slavery and therefore Christianity is bad.....is ridiculous. Where is this guy from? I'm willing to bet just about anything that somewhere in HIS background generations ago HIS ancestors probably had an example of either having or using slaves. What's that got to do with him today? Does that put in question the validity of HIS work because of that mere fact?

This author merely showed a very 1 sided view and gave absolutely no credence to the other side. Ironically enough, that's exactly what fire and brimstone preachers and followers do for the most part....How can one be right and not the other?

[98Impreza234]

They are just there to take your money no joke.

[4dmin]

Finally, and more importantly, people will believe what they want to believe the majority of the time. If they have ingrained in their psychy that God doesn't exist, they will find supporters of their beliefs to agree with them. It's only natural. So, for him to generalize certain things as : Christopher Columbus= Catholic; Christopher Columbus used slaves= Christianity abdocates slavery and therefore Christianity is bad.....is ridiculous. Where is this guy from? I'm willing to bet just about anything that somewhere in HIS background generations ago HIS ancestors probably had an example of either having or using slaves. What's that got to do with him today? Does that put in question the validity of HIS work because of that mere fact?



i'm just wondering here are you disputing the fact that christians supported slavery for centurys? that would be like stating that you don't believe molestation ever happened in the catholic churches... religion is slavery to begin with

[Jaimecbr900]

i'm just wondering here are you disputing the fact that christians supported slavery for centurys? that would be like stating that you don't believe molestation ever happened in the catholic churches... religion is slavery to begin with

You didn't answer my question, so I guess you misunderstood.

I'm not arguing one way or another if something happened centuries ago. I'm merely saying that to make the leap forward of tying that to religion today is ludicrous. In other words, just because an ancestor of yours did something how does that relate to YOU today? Isn't a far leap to assume it makes you and your ancestor one in the same? Therefore, how can you glob religion the same way? Every single religion in the entire face of the earth has had someone commit something irrevocably wrong while shouting out their name.

Look at the case of Islam right now. Islam is said to be a peaceful religion. I've seen and agreed with many people that defend that viewpoint. What does mainstream think though? That ALL Islam advocates is violence for anyone that doesn't follow it's beliefs. How right is that? It's actually LESS of a leap to tie since there have been beheadings and suicide bombers who clearly by their own admissions did their deeds in the name of "Islam".

So for the author of that to loosely tie that Christianity as a whole condones slavery because Christopher Columbus had slaves on his ships (as EVERY ship routinely did) and since he was a Catholic that means Christianity CONDONED it is far fetched at best. Does that mean that if you buy something made in China, you are FOR child labor violations? See what I mean?

[obd1kenobi]

:lmfao: that dude with the sign is my hero!

[4dmin]

You didn't answer my question, so I guess you misunderstood.

I'm not arguing one way or another if something happened centuries ago. I'm merely saying that to make the leap forward of tying that to religion today is ludicrous. In other words, just because an ancestor of yours did something how does that relate to YOU today? Isn't a far leap to assume it makes you and your ancestor one in the same? Therefore, how can you glob religion the same way? Every single religion in the entire face of the earth has had someone commit something irrevocably wrong while shouting out their name.

Look at the case of Islam right now. Islam is said to be a peaceful religion. I've seen and agreed with many people that defend that viewpoint. What does mainstream think though? That ALL Islam advocates is violence for anyone that doesn't follow it's beliefs. How right is that? It's actually LESS of a leap to tie since there have been beheadings and suicide bombers who clearly by their own admissions did their deeds in the name of "Islam".

So for the author of that to loosely tie that Christianity as a whole condones slavery because Christopher Columbus had slaves on his ships (as EVERY ship routinely did) and since he was a Catholic that means Christianity CONDONED it is far fetched at best. Does that mean that if you buy something made in China, you are FOR child labor violations? See what I mean?

leap forward... hmmm there is still slavery, racisim, seperatism, today... what leap are you refering to... that black people can vote, own land, etc... what are we talking about 50 years?

also you are christian, you already have sin in you from the original... so if you have to carry such a burden why wouldn't you carry the burden of all mankind or christians who came before you? you live with what they haev done everyday, why would this be different?

yes i buy things from china and if they come from labor camps, guess what... one i wouldnt' know b/c i'm not from china, two nothing i can do will change the fact i'm going to buy products from there regardless.

[Killer]

i'm not even gonna bother reading the 20 reasons...

but one reason to LIVE FOR JESUS is because HE DIED FOR YOU!

[Jaimecbr900]

leap forward... hmmm there is still slavery, racisim, seperatism, today... what leap are you refering to... that black people can vote, own land, etc... what are we talking about 50 years?

#1- Name a place where slavery is still allowed today.
#2- Black people weren't the only race that was ever enslaved. ;)
#3- My point wasn't that something happened or it didn't, it was that because someone did it doesn't mean his/her RELIGION condoned it or preached it was right.



also you are christian, you already have sin in you from the original... so if you have to carry such a burden why wouldn't you carry the burden of all mankind or christians who came before you? you live with what they haev done everyday, why would this be different?

Because "sin" is something that can only be carried or forgiven by the individual. I can't pay for your sins any more than I can of my own children.
Therefore, what does the sin of other people from generations ago have to do with my choices now? They either live or die by their choices as will I.




yes i buy things from china and if they come from labor camps, guess what... one i wouldnt' know b/c i'm not from china, two nothing i can do will change the fact i'm going to buy products from there regardless.


So therefore according to your's and the author's logic, you are condoning and even supporting child labor camps then. He says "Christianity" advocates slavery because some people that were "Christians" had or used slaves. How is you buying a pair of tennis shoes made by the hands of some 9 yr old in some 3rd world country going to be any reflection on YOU? THAT is exactly my point. How is the action of one have to do with the ideology of another?

Like I said, it's far fetched and loosely connected at best. Either way, it's a weak argument since I'm willing to bet there's not a single Slave owner today :rolleyes: that is a true Christian. Hell, anything can be loosely connected if we dig far enough and make enough assumptions. :rolleyes:

[David88vert]

Plain and simple - Those 20 "reasons" are nothing are nothing more than that one person's opinion. He is entitled to his opinion, but those opinions are nothing more than hate propoganda - equilant to the teachings of the Third Reich. If you choose to listen to it and repeat his opinions as your own, that is your perogrative. But that does not mean that it is not preaching hatred (of Christianity).

[{X}Echo419]

wtf?! what a Hater! why would you post something like that?

ya know Christians started out as slaves. Just because man does something and is a Christian doesn't make it the "policy" of God.

what happened to you to be such an asshole? attacking christians for no reason. come on what happened? did your kitten get ran over by a car when you were a kid? after all if God is good and loving why would he let your kitty get ran over?

ever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole."? I guarntee if you find yourself in that situation you'll only have 1 reason to change your mind.

[Hulud]

wtf?! what a Hater! why would you post something like that?

ya know Christians started out as slaves. Just because man does something and is a Christian doesn't make it the "policy" of God.

what happened to you to be such an asshole? attacking christians for no reason. come on what happened? did your kitten get ran over by a car when you were a kid? after all if God is good and loving why would he let your kitty get ran over?
where the hell is admin attacking christianity?
and this argument is classic :lmao: "why are you not christian, you must think why would god do this" damn that is the most ignorant comment you can make about an atheist. yea man the reason i dont believe in a god is because i can't believe my kitty died :lmfao:

ever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole."? I guarntee if you find yourself in that situation you'll only have 1 reason to change your mind.
thank you, i guess because if you are in a war you automatically become religious:rolleyes:

[Hulud]

Either way, it's a weak argument since I'm willing to bet there's not a single Slave owner today :rolleyes: that is a true Christian.
so would you say that a lot of "christians" in the US pre-civil war were not REAL christians, because they either 1. owned slaves or 2. were racist? :)

[{X}Echo419]

where the hell is admin attacking christianity?
and this argument is classic :lmao: "why are you not christian, you must think why would god do this" damn that is the most ignorant comment you can make about an atheist. yea man the reason i dont believe in a god is because i can't believe my kitty died :lmfao:
did you read the 1st post in this thread? what are you dense? maybe I'm wrong and he's not lmk I'll apologize.
you said it :lmfao:


thank you, i guess because if you are in a war you automatically become religious:rolleyes:

no but if you're about die in a guresome way I bet you will. :rolleyes:

[4dmin]

#1- Name a place where slavery is still allowed today. umm i can name two right off hand the africa and the middle east


#3- My point wasn't that something happened or it didn't, it was that because someone did it doesn't mean his/her RELIGION condoned it or preached it was right. ummm ok, like i stated the catholic church has known for 100's of years their priest have been molesting young boys... i'm guessing that is the burden of the individual not the church? :jerkit:





what does the sin of other people from generations ago have to do with my choices now?

do you not believe you are born in sin? and why are we born in sin? ok then, so my point is valid you have to live every day w/ the sins of past generations.

[4dmin]

wtf?! what a Hater! why would you post something like that?

ya know Christians started out as slaves. Just because man does something and is a Christian doesn't make it the "policy" of God.

what happened to you to be such an asshole? attacking christians for no reason. come on what happened? did your kitten get ran over by a car when you were a kid? after all if God is good and loving why would he let your kitty get ran over?

ever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole."? I guarntee if you find yourself in that situation you'll only have 1 reason to change your mind.

Christians made themselves slaves by rebelling against the empire.

How am i an asshole, b/c i don't believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, or that guy you like to glorify hanging on a cross?

and you statement about how god is "good and loving" has to be the dumbest statement ever... read your bible god has allowed evil to take over earth and he is more than capable of doing such.

no i've never heard that and i hope your at my death bed so you can see me curse the name of your god once again :goodjob:

EAD h8ter.

[metalman]

ummm ok, like i stated the catholic church has known for 100's of years their priest have been molesting young boys... i'm guessing that is the burden of the individual not the church? :jerkit:



This is true. Not only have they been molesting boys but women as well. Abraham Lincoln was involved in a court proceeding where he acted as defense lawyer for a priest who TRIED to blow the whistle on the sexual abuses of women/children by other priests. The response of the church? They paid a woman to say she was "molested" by the whistle blower in an attempt to destroy his character and credibility.

The problem is though is that this has nothing to do with true Christianity. The roman catholic church is not a Christian entity but masquerades as one. It makes up its own nonsensical teachings/dogma by its own "authority" and does not submit to Scriptural principles and/or teachings. Its even so presumptious to think that God must "act" upon its "authority". :rolleyes:
Nothing related to its behaviour/history should surprise you.

[metalman]

and you statement about how god is "good and loving" has to be the dumbest statement ever... read your bible god has allowed evil to take over earth and he is more than capable of doing such.



Alot of people have trouble with what God "allows". I sympathize with that sentiment.
However, to me it isnt that confusing...God created mankind but allowed mankind to choose. He could have created robots who served him without any means to do otherwsie but He didnt. Man had the choice to obey God, respect Him or not. Man choose to disobey in spite of being warned and told of the results. The results are exactly what God said they would be...the evil that has taken over the earth as you have described.
God has allowed all of the universe to see by virtue of allowing mans choice that His way is in fact the right way and choosing other ways only lead to misery, destruction & death. He has also allowed the whole universe to see that he in indeed a God of mercy in that he has provided a way out to ANYONE that accepts it.

We all have that choice available to us...we can accept it or not. This is why I hate these religions that try to force "morality" through the government. Choice is a God given right, even up to and including cursing Him.

[{X}Echo419]

Christians made themselves slaves by rebelling against the empire.

How am i an asshole, b/c i don't believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, or that guy you like to glorify hanging on a cross?

and you statement about how god is "good and loving" has to be the dumbest statement ever... read your bible god has allowed evil to take over earth and he is more than capable of doing such.

no i've never heard that and i hope your at my death bed so you can see me curse the name of your god once again :goodjob:

EAD h8ter.
^dumbest statment ever^

[/PUSSY] get some

[v3rd1g0]

hmm quite interesting, i'd jump into this great discussion but i have class soonishso i won't have time to defend my self lol

[Killer]

said it :lmfao: no but if you're about die in a guresome way I bet you will. :rolleyes:


he's right... think about it... when somethin bad happens to you... what do u say... (wether it's in vain for not) 9 out of ten people will say the name JESUS! or GOD! or OH MY GOD! now where most people say it for the wrong reason, your still calling out to the one person who will always hear you, and the only one who can always help! or solve ANY problem!

it's human nature to call out to your maker.... like when ur a little kid and u call for ur mommy or daddy... same concept..

[v3rd1g0]

he's right... think about it... when somethin bad happens to you... what do u say... (wether it's in vain for not) 9 out of ten people will say the name JESUS! or GOD! or OH MY GOD! now where most people say it for the wrong reason, your still calling out to the one person who will always hear you, and the only one who can always help! or solve ANY problem!

it's human nature to call out to your maker.... like when ur a little kid and u call for ur mommy or daddy... same concept..


so i was created by "french fries".. also if you think about it. as children you have an open mind. you pick up words from what is constantly said to you. most parents say mommy, mom, dad, daddy and so forth more than any other word. it's the stereotypical "first word" because parents want to feel special if their child says their "name" first... if i were to say penis allthe time the child will probably say penis as their first words... it's all what you push on the child.. your thesis = bust

[Killer]

i hope your at my death bed so you can see me curse the name of your god once again.


I hope there's a christian at your death bed too man!
but not one that's there to watch u die,... but to help u live.

i don't know you at all, and u don't know me... but it only takes one small act of God to change your mind completely.... And i know HE can change yours... i watched over 10,000 non believers get saved this weekend... one person won't be too hard for HIM!

[4dmin]

I hope there's a christian at your death bed too man!
but not one that's there to watch u die,... but to help u live.

i don't know you at all, and u don't know me... but it only takes one small act of God to change your mind completely.... And i know HE can change yours... i watched over 10,000 non believers get saved this weekend... one person won't be too hard for HIM!

i personally don't have any problem w/ christians, just their religion. there isn't anything for me to want to worship. i do not believe in your heaven/hell/god so it doesn't phase me the outcome some my think i will have.

if i'm wrong then i will be getting a nice sun tan for eternity, but if i'm right lol... you better hope there is room in my heaven for ya :goodjob:

[Kelly]

No, that's just it. Hell is worse than anything imaginable. Total darkness,screaming,falling,burning,burning,burning ... FOREVER! Our "fleshly" minds can't comprehind eternity. What if you are, in fact, wrong? Ever though about that? There's is nothing you can do... And it's forever.

If I'm wrong (which I have experienced God's power and know it's real), what have I got to lose? I'll die, rot, and become part of this earth... Oh well, it's not demonic torture for eternity.

[Hulud]

it's human nature to call out to your maker.... like when ur a little kid and u call for ur mommy or daddy... same concept..
no its not, its learned

[Hulud]

did you read the 1st post in this thread? what are you dense? maybe I'm wrong and he's not lmk I'll apologize.
you said it :lmfao:
i think you're the one jmping to conclusions
he never said anything other than hers some good reading :goodjob:

Here is some good reading... :goodjob:

http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html#numberfifteen




no but if you're about die in a guresome way I bet you will. :rolleyes:
since you know me and all :rolleyes:

[4dmin]

No, that's just it. Hell is worse than anything imaginable. Total darkness,screaming,falling,burning,burning,burning ... FOREVER! Our "fleshly" minds can't comprehind eternity. What if you are, in fact, wrong? Ever though about that? There's is nothing you can do... And it's forever.

If I'm wrong (which I have experienced God's power and know it's real), what have I got to lose? I'll die, rot, and become part of this earth... Oh well, it's not demonic torture for eternity.

Sorry thanx for playing... your view on things is quite 1 sided... you think just b/c your believe in GOD 1) your going to heaven 2) if your wrong then you'll just rot... what if your wrong you can still meet a hell in your afterlife which may be far worse than what your christian books tell you.

so make sure you choose your heaven wisely... i have made peace with my self if i am wrong; you should do the same for it might not be as easy as rotting and becoming earth :goodjob:

[Killer]

so i was created by "french fries".. also if you think about it. as children you have an open mind. you pick up words from what is constantly said to you. most parents say mommy, mom, dad, daddy and so forth more than any other word. it's the stereotypical "first word" because parents want to feel special if their child says their "name" first... if i were to say penis allthe time the child will probably say penis as their first words... it's all what you push on the child.. your thesis = bust



read genius... i didn't say a childs first words and i don't mean kids that can barely talk either.... and Jesus wasn't something drove into my life by my parents like other words may have been....

[Kelly]

Sorry thanx for playing... your view on things is quite 1 sided... you think just b/c your believe in GOD 1) your going to heaven 2) if your wrong then you'll just rot... what if your wrong you can still meet a hell in your afterlife which may be far worse than what your christian books tell you.

so make sure you choose your heaven wisely... i have made peace with my self if i am wrong; you should do the same for it might not be as easy as rotting and becoming earth :goodjob:

I do understand what you are saying. I didn't mean to sound so "one-sided". But because I have truely experienced God in my life, I know He is real. However because you haven't, you don't. I don't think I'm going to heaven just because i "believe in God", I think I am because I live my life for Him.

[{X}Echo419]

i think you're the one jmping to conclusions
he never said anything other than hers some good reading :goodjob:





since you know me and all :rolleyes:

Topic Title, the pic, and the link to the website. what was I thinking?
it'd be like if I started a thread titled, "20 reasons to shoot a kitten" then had a pic of a guy w/a gun pointed at a kitten and then gave a link to a website with 20 Reasons to shoot a kitten you wouldn't think I liked/wanted to shoot a kitten? :doh:
maybe it's just me

[v3rd1g0]

i wouldn't think that. i'd think it was just some interesting reading. if i found something interesting i'd post it(unless someone else already did)

[{X}Echo419]

i wouldn't think that. i'd think it was just some interesting reading. if i found something interesting i'd post it(unless someone else already did)



...maybe I'm wrong and he's not lmk I'll apologize.


:lmfao: I quoted myself!

[Kelly]

Look, if our Christianity bothers you so much... Quit talking about it. We're not trying to offend or preach to you guys until YA'LL bring it up. But when I see you guys post stuff like whoever it was that posted that pic saying "If Jesus comes back, kill him again"... That really offends me. If you guys think we're so immature and simpleminded for believing this stuff, keep it to yourselves- that would be the mature thing to do. Why flip out and try to start arguments? It's so pointless! We all believe how we want to believe and we're not gonna change until WE want to... Geezzz....

[Kelly]

But this is how I feel... An awesome poem/video trailer by an awesome man of God.... I'll call this 100+ Reasons to ADOPT Christianity. ;)

My King was born King; the Bible says He's the seven-way King.
He's the King of the Jews- that is a racial King.
He's the King of Israel - that's a national king.
He's the King of righteousness,
He's the King of the ages,
He's the King of heaven,
He's the King of glory,
He's the King of kings and
He is the Lord of lords.
Now, that's my King.

"Well, I wonder if you know Him do you know Him?
Don't try to mislead me - do you know my King?
David said, "The heavens declare the glory of God
and the firmament shows His handiwork."
My King is the only one, whom there is no means of measure can define His limitless love.
No far-seeing telescope can bring into visibility the coastline of His shoreless supplies.
No barriers can hinder Him from pouring out His blessing.
He's enduringly strong, He's entirely sincere, He's eternally steadfast, He's immortally graceful, imperially powerful, He's impartially merciful.

That's my King. He's God's Son, He's the sinner's Saviour. He's the centrepiece of civilisation, He stands alone in Himself. He's awesome, unique, unparalleled -
He's unprecedented.

He's the miracle of the age. He's the superlative of everything good that you choose to call Him. He is the only one able to supply all of our needs simultaneously. He supplies strength for the weak. He's available for the tempted and the tried. He sympathises and He saves.
He foreguards and He guides.
He heals the sick.
He cleanses the lepers.
He forgives sinners.
He discharges debtors.
He delivers the captives. He defends the feeble. He blesses the young. He serves the unfortunate. He regards the aged.
He rewards the diligent, and He beautifies the meek. Do you know Him?

Well, my King is the King of knowledge.
He's the wellspring of wisdom, He's the doorway of deliverance.
He's the pathway of peace, He's the roadway of righteousness, He's the highway of holiness, He's the gateway of glory.
He's the Master of the mighty, He's the Captain of the conquerors, He's the Head of the heroes and He's the Leader of the legislators!
He's the Overseer of the overcomers, He's the Governor of the governors.
He's the Prince of princes, He's the King of kings, and He's the Lord of lords.
That's my King.

His office is manifold and His promise is sure. His light is matchless,
His goodness is limitless.
His mercy is everlasting and His love never changes.
His Word is enough, His grace is sufficient.
His reign is righteous, His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
Well, I wish I could describe Him to you, but He's indescribable!
He's incomprehensible, invincible, irresistible.

I'm trying to tell you the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him,
let alone a man explain Him!
You can't get Him out of your mind. You can't get Him off of your hands.
You can't outlive Him and you can't live without Him!
Well, Pharisees couldn't stand Him but they found out they couldn't stop Him.
Pilot couldn't find any fault in Him.
The witnesses couldn't get their testimonies to agree and Herod couldn't kill Him.
Death couldn't handle Him and the grave couldn't hold Him.
That's my King!

He always has been and He always will be.
I'm talking about, He had no predecessor and He'll have no successor.
There was nobody before Him and there will be no one after Him.
You can't impeach Him and He's not going to resign.
That's my King!

Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory.
Well, all the power belongs to my King.
We around here talk about black-power, and white-power, and green-power, but it's God's power! Thine is the power and the glory!
We are trying to get prestige and honour and glory for ourselves but the glory is all His.
Yes, Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever and ever
and ever (how long is that?) and ever
and ever and ever and ever.
And when you get through with all of the forevers, then - "Amen!"

[Killer]

amen.... amen!

[Hulud]

Topic Title, the pic, and the link to the website. what was I thinking?
you should have gone into it with an open mind :2cents:


it'd be like if I started a thread titled, "20 reasons to shoot a kitten" then had a pic of a guy w/a gun pointed at a kitten and then gave a link to a website with 20 Reasons to shoot a kitten you wouldn't think I liked/wanted to shoot a kitten? :doh:
only if you said i want to kill kittens

maybe it's just me
you're right it is just you

[metalman]

Hell is worse than anything imaginable. Total darkness,screaming,falling,burning,burning,burning ... FOREVER!

Not to pick on you, I agree with some of the sentimate expressed, BUT I am troubled by one thing. I understand I am going against common church teachings but when I study the Bible carefully I find no such eternal burning hell.

Make no mistake, hell IS eternal, but just the effects/results.

Sodom and Gomorrah "suffered the vengance of eternal fire" according to Scripture yet there is no burning there this day, only utter desolation.

It is highly troubling to critics of Christianity that while God is supposed to be merciful and loving he is willing to torture people for eternity. I don't blame them for questioning this. That is why I bring this up.

A couple Bible verses on the subject...

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; (NOT eternal life in torment)but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
**this would be a lie if people were burning forever**

There are many more verses...I won't list them all.

Think about it, use logic even, does anyone in this popular church taught eternal hell die of cancer? Heart disease? Does anyone go blind? Does anyone die accidently? If not it must be safer then the good old USA because people die here by the tens of thousands. Eternal hell must not be such a bad place afterall, at least its safer then the United States, its just warmer.

The teaching of eternal life in hell is a continuation of the first lie recorded in Scripture, "ye shall not surely die"

Fact is the Bible says the wicked are "destroyed", "burned up", "consumed" etc etc....there is an utter end, utter destruction, just like Sodom and Gomorrah. Even in the destruction of evil there is mercy.

Again, I don't question your intent or sincerity.

[Kelly]

Ok. First of all I wanna say thank you for not coming across in a judging way.
When you mentioned that "God is supposed to be merciful and loving he is willing to torture people for eternity"- as a Christian, I don't view it that way. He gives us our own free will. We have our entire lives, however long that may be, to choose His path. I also believe that if for some reason in you life span you never hear the teachings of Christ, God won't allow you to go to hell. You have to have heard about it, be at the age of understanding and deny or decide not to accept Him into your heart to go to hell in my opinion.

But here are a few verses to back up the hell that I believe in.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Luke 16-22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Rev. 14-10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Rev. 21-8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Here's the main kicker...

Rev. 20- 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Just showing you "our" facts. And I see what you're saying about it being a "safer" (which is not the best word in my book) place then the U.S. because you never die. But it's a place that you'd rather die then live in that kind of torture/pain. It's not like everyday walking around chatting with people, or people developing cancer...

Once again, just my views as a christian.

[Kelly]

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
**this would be a lie if people were burning forever**


And this verse is referring to those who chose to follow Christ.
A reference to heaven I believe.

[metalman]

To properly understand the Bible teaching on any doctrine one must accept the "sum total" of the entire Book on that particular subject.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The key to undertanding Mark 9:43-8 is also found in Jer. 17....
Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

Careful study will indicate that in both in the case of Sodom and Jersalem the fire that cannot be quenched simply burns until its divine purpose has been accomplished and then it goes out. Man cannot extinguish or quench the fire of hell, but it does indeed go out when there is nothing left to burn.


As for the rich man and Lazarus, a careful study will show that is is contrary to this verse...Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If the people in heaven can hear and speak to the people in hell there would most certainly be sorrow and pain, and the former things would not be passed away yet still remain.
So, what is this story about? Where did it come from? Turns out it was a common story of that era, a parable, not a literal story, which makes perfect sense in light of the rest of the Bible.

The Jews had a common story describing death as passing through a valley of darkness and they pictured salvation as fleeing to the security of Abraham's bosom. The Jews also believed that riches were a sign of God's favor and poverty a sign of His displeasure. Surely the poverty of Lazarus was an indication he had committed some grave sin, the Jews thought. But, the rich man in the story, whom the Jews thought blessed of God, ends up in Hell, while the poor man is in heaven. Jesus had reversed the outcome from what the Jews expected. This is why Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the way he did. It was not intended to convey the exact circumstances of Heaven or Hell, but rather to show to the Jews that they had grave misconceptions about who was saved and who was lost.

These are the main points the parable teaches:

1. Riches gained by greed, dishonesty or oppressing the poor are not a sign of God's favor. Wealth is simply not an indicator of one's salvation.

2. The parable describes a great fixed gulf between the saved and the lost. Jesus clearly communicated that there is no second chance after death. The decision made in life determines our eternal destiny, and it simply cannot be changed after death.

3. Jesus points out that if the Pharisees rejected the clear teachings of God's word regarding salvation, they would also reject such a mighty, supernatural spectacular miracle as one being raised from the dead.

Note that a short while later in John 11:11-14,43,44 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. As a result the Jews were threatened and attempted to kill Lazarus (John 12:10). They also became so angry with Jesus that they plotted to destroy Him as well. So the words of Jesus in Luke 16:31 were indeed prophetic and fulfilled.


It is indeed interesting to me that you bring up Rev. 20
That Scripture tells WHERE and WHEN & HOW hell takes place.
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them

Where? The breadth of the earth, not some mysterious place
When? After the 1000 years, not now, not immediately at death
How? It devours the wicked just like the fires of Sodom and Jerusalem.

The Bible is clear throughout the entire Book, when God reveals himself to sinful unrepentant humans theyre consumed....

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Exo 24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Isa 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:

Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.



John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In order to have eternal life you must be saved. There is NO eternal life for the lost. Read Genisis...

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The Immortality taken from mankind is restored to the righteous in the end, but NOT to the wicked. They are "consumed", "destroyed", "burned up", they "melt", they die the second death which is FINAL.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Keep studying...it took me while to learn these things, you will see the character of God in a new way. :)

[Killer]

I also believe that if for some reason in you life span you never hear the teachings of Christ, God won't allow you to go to hell. You have to have heard about it, be at the age of understanding and deny or decide not to accept Him into your heart to go to hell in my opinion.

that's one thing i don't agree with.... the age of understanding/ or accountaibility is no where in the Bible.... and i don't believe it says anything about.. "if you've never heard of christ your not going to hell"

that's my opinion though...

kelly where do u live... we should get together sometime and do some bible study or somethin!

[metalman]

A key to remember....

Satan, the serpent told Eve, "ye shall not surely die" (live forever)

God said "The soul that sinneth it shall die" (NOT live forever)

I don't know about you but I don't put much stock in what Satan says as being anywhere near the truth. ;)

[Killer]

^^^ do u really call living a life in hell life.... ??? i'm sure God doesn't either...
Hell is forever it says it many more times in the Bible besides what kelly posted...

but metalman i applaud u using verses from the bible to show us your points/thoughts... instead of googling random retarded things like some guy who's done a study on hell on the history channel! :goodjob:

[Kelly]

All I know that I serve a mighty powerful God because like I have said time and time again, I have truely experienced Him. Not because mommy or daddy told me to... Not because I live in the "bible belt"... But because I have saw Him do great things in the lives of me and the people around me. I have witnessed someone being healed right before my very eyes.

So we can quote bible scriptures back and forth until our fingers fall off, but that isn't proving anything to you. Do you see what I mean?

You all get mad if we can't quote a scripture every single time we say something. But it's because we're speaking from our hearts. I'll tell you right now that I'm no bible scholar in any way. You may, in fact, have more scriptures memorized, but I feel like I have something deeper then a mind full of scriptures. I have a savior who is there with me, beside me, to guide me thru anything that comes my way...

I'm not bashing anyone, it just frustrates me to no limits when other people feel like they can bash us and bash us. But that's ok, it's gonna be worth it.

2 Corinthians- 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

[metalman]

^^^ do u really call living a life in hell life.... ??? i'm sure God doesn't either...
Hell is forever it says it many more times in the Bible besides what kelly posted...

but metalman i applaud u using verses from the bible to show us your points/thoughts... instead of googling random retarded things like some guy who's done a study on hell on the history channel! :goodjob:

The word "forever" is used numerous times in the Bible for things that have ceased or ended. I would be very cautious in hinging my beliefs upon that word. You may want to study that word further. ;)

To be honest, to many churches, removing the teaching of eternal burning hell removes the method they use to motivate people, which is sad. These misguided people don't realize the true character of God and are unable to use His loving mercy to entice others but resort to a method of using fear of eternal torment instead.

[Kelly]

A key to remember....

Satan, the serpent told Eve, "ye shall not surely die" (live forever)

God said "The soul that sinneth it shall die" (NOT live forever)

I don't know about you but I don't put much stock in what Satan says as being anywhere near the truth. ;)

It's ETERNAL DEATH... Hello...

[Kelly]

kelly where do u live... we should get together sometime and do some bible study or somethin!

That'd be fun. ;)

I live in North Ga.

[metalman]

So we can quote bible scriptures back and forth until our fingers fall off, but that isn't proving anything to you. Do you see what I mean?



It SHOULD prove something to the believer if he/she is truly a believer because the believer is to be bound by that Word.

As I said previously, most so called Christians are happy to continue in whatever belief they already have REGARDLESS of what the sum total of Scripture says.

Obviously youre correct in terms of non believers. Spiritual things are spirtually discerned. There is no discernment (light) in darkness. ;)

[metalman]

It's ETERNAL DEATH... Hello...

Indeed. It is DEATH (not life or alive) and it is eternal for sure. :)

[Killer]

The word "forever" is used numerous times in the Bible for things that have ceased or ended. I would be very cautious in hinging my beliefs upon that word. You may want to study that word further. ;)

To be honest, to many churches, removing the teaching of eternal burning hell removes the method they use to motivate people, which is sad. These misguided people don't realize the true character of God and are unable to use His loving mercy to entice others but resort to a method of using fear of eternal torment instead.


I agree with that..... too many churches preach hell.. when they should be preaching the love of Jesus...

[Kelly]

No, you'll never understand it until you experience it.

As far as knowing my scriptures... I do.
And I'll never be content with my spiritual connection with God... There is always something more... I won't be "content" until I reach heaven and get to worship my savior throughout all eternity.

You obviously know scriptures as do I. The bible is a sacred book to teach us how to live a Christ-like life. Why use it to argue points to someone who is set in their ways anyway?...

[Kelly]

I agree with that..... too many churches preach hell.. when they should be preaching the love of Jesus...

Agreed. Although I do think it necessary for us to know the outcome of not living a Christ-like life.

[metalman]

Why use it to argue points to someone who is set in their ways anyway?...

Thats just the point. The true Christian should never be "set in their ways", they should always be completely willing to accept whatever the Bible teaches as they advance in knowlege of that Word, regardless of what mommy and daddy told them, regardless of what the preacher man said, regardless of the popular opinion, regardless of their former ideas.

Unless one approches Bible study with humility, not caring what point is proven, but only interested in what the Word truly reveals, and what is true, they will always be stumbling and somewhat confused at least in part.

I realize that the view of hell I have presented will put me in a very small minority of people on the earth. I care not. The only question I care about is...what is true in light of Scripture. Its not MY truth afterall...it doesnt belong to me, my pride should have no place in it. ;)

[Kelly]

Thats just the point. The true Christian should never be "set in their ways", they should always be completely willing to accept whatever the Bible teaches as they advance in knowlege of that Word, regardless of what mommy and daddy told them, regardless of what the preacher man said, regardless of the popular opinion, regardless of their former ideas. ;)

I was referring to you being set in your ways... I'm not gonna change your mind. Right?

[Kelly]

And every sunday morning, night and wednesday night I enter worship/ preaching with an open mind and heart so don't think I'm stubborn like that.
I'm truely honestly not.

[metalman]

I was referring to you being set in your ways... I'm not gonna change your mind. Right?

Wrong. I am bound by the Scripture. If you can show me a rational explanation that is in harmony with ALL Scriptures on the subject of death and hell I am there. We are all subject to the Word. I am no exception. So far you have not, or even attempted to explain some of the plain english from the Bible I have quoted...which is okay, youre not obligated to prove anything to me. Thats my job to study for myself.

You have simply stated what you believe and given a couple Scriptures for it.
Nothing wrong with that, its just not that compelling to me. I respect your right to ANY opinion you wish to hold. For me though the evidence has to be given from a sum total of all Scripture. The "contradictions" between Scriptures must be explained. I really care not whose view is proven. Do you?

I realize that most likely the view of eternal burning hell may be a favorite of your church. Youre not alone. Catholics love it. Baptists love it. In fact the majority of the so called Christian world endorses this teaching. Problem for me is that this teaching fails to explain the countless verses that indicate and clearly state otherwise.

It also serves as a motivation for many to reject a God that is only one small step away from tormenting one forever. I dont blame them.

I realize that most likely the view I have presented is probably completely foreign to you. Maybe youve never even heard it before. I also realize that it took me many hours of studying the words and teachings of the entire Bible, greek & hebrew, words like "forever", "soul" "spirit" "hell" etc etc to arrive at any conclusion.
I certainly DO NOT expect to convince you in a matter of a few minutes to see something that took me a long time. I only appeal to you to study further, dont rely on what your church teaches. Have an open mind. Be open to anything the Scripture teaches. If we BOTH do that we'll end up knowing what is true regarding hell and alot of other things as well. :)

[Kelly]

True... (I'm penecostal by the way- and no, we don't handle snakes, lol)

I will say though, that somethings aren't as clear as we'd like them to be in the bible. For instance if Adam and Eve were the only couple in the world, did Eve have to reproduce with her offspring? The same with Noah's family...
Or the fact that the bible never mentions Dinosaurs, but we know they existed because we have bones to prove it.

But I'll study up some more and maybe ask my preacher tonight at church and get back to ya. Cool?

[metalman]

True... (I'm penecostal by the way- and no, we don't handle snakes, lol)

I will say though, that somethings aren't as clear as we'd like them to be in the bible. For instance if Adam and Eve were the only couple in the world, did Eve have to reproduce with her offspring? The same with Noah...
Or the fact that the bible never mentions Dinosaurs, but we know they existed because we have bones to prove it.

But I'll study up some more and maybe ask my preacher tonight at church and get back to ya. Cool?

Plus one for no snakes. ;)
Pentecostals love the eternal hell doctrine even more then Baptists. :)
If I were you I'd study for myself. My .02 ;)

Indeed, the Bible can be confusing on some points. To me the answer is multiple..some things arent nessessary for us the created to know. Other things (answers) are in the Book just not discovered by us as individuals.

As to dinosaurs...to me the Bible infers something. God destroyed the world by flood (Noah) because man "worshiped the creature more then the Creator" and because man was evil continually. The Scripture states the God saved "that which he had made" or pairs and sevens etc of that life. That tells me he DIDNT save what he did not make.

Think about it...mans lifespan before the flood was nearly 1000 years. Humans then were much more "pefect" and closer to what Adam was then are we. They were much more perfect in their knowlege and wisdom. Their worship of the creature obviously included manipulating God's creation...making, breeding, cloning whatever..dinasours. When God destroyed
the earth he destroyed those works of men too. ;)

It says "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in day of the coming of the Son...." What are earthly scientists involved in today??? Hmmm cloning...genetic manipulation etc etc ;)

And contrary to popular opinion man and dinasour have been found in the same layer of earth. There are even tracks that appear to be of a large human leading a dinasour.

[Kelly]

All very good points. Cept the thing "man and dinasour have been found in the same layer of earth". I'll have to read up on that too.

So what exactly do you believe? Do you believe the bible in it's entireity, parts of it, any of it at all?

[metalman]

All very good points. Cept the thing "man and dinasour have been found in the same layer of earth". I'll have to read up on that too.

So what exactly do you believe? Do you believe the bible in it's entireity, parts of it, any of it at all?

Of course, study for yourself. Perhaps I should state it this way...evidences of man and dinasour have been found in the same layers of earth.

In order to accept any of the Bible one must accept all of it. People attempt to disect out the parts they dont want to comply with or can't understand.
They use lame excuses like "I am a new testament christian" or "I am under the new covenant" etc etc. Problem is the Bible clearly states that His principles do not change. 'I am the Lord thy God, I change not' is one very clear verse. That is why I say it is quite clear to me that in order to claim any teaching is true and in accordance with the Bible one must strive to find what is harmony with all of Scripture, not just a few select verses. There is NO adding to or subtracting from it.
See the princple outlined in Deut. 12:29-32

An illustration of that...Jesus, the author of new testament christianity summarized the ten commandments by saying "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart....thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
The first four commandments are mans duty to God. Love for God.
The last six are mans duty to fellow man. Love for Man.
The commandments were written in stone by the finger of God, upon two tablets of stone. ;) Jesus simply reiterated the law in summary form. He didnt contradict it. He didnt change it. He didnt add to it. He didnt subtract from it.
He didnt do away with it. Which is all in keeping with the Bible description of the law being eternal.



Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

A warning to those who add or subtract from the Word and do so in Gods name....

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
etc etc....

[Speedm0(\)key]

man.. fuck christianity, really

[Kelly]

^^^ Woah speedmonkey, where did you come from? If it bothers you- don't click on it. It's an easy concept.

[ISAtlanta300]

man.. fuck christianity, really


If that is all you have to contribute to these discussions you are better off not reading and posting altogether..... it's getting old, dude...

[{X}Echo419]

If that is all you have to contribute to these discussions you are better off not reading and posting altogether..... it's getting old, dude...

amen!

[Kelly]

Seriously... Why even click on it if it's gonna make you that mad?

[Killer]

... it's not that he's that mad... he just wants to make us christians mad... little does he know he's just making himself look retarded..

[Georgiaman]

Well i am 100% sure Jesus is comen soon i am seeing healings and people are getting saved there will be disbelivers but just know Jesus loves you and as in the days of noah (the rains about to fall and when it starts fallen its to late) i hope you all get right before that happens

God Bless

[Kelly]

Amen^^^

Six Prophecies That Are Being Filled In THESE Last Days

1. FALSE PROPHETS AND CHRISTS
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."

In the last several years many have claimed to be the Messiah. Jim Jones and David Koresh are examples of these false christs as well as countless others who are not as newsworthy. These false prophets are a prelude to the ultimate false christ, the antichrist. Many New Age groups, some even NGO's working for the United Nations, are anxiously awaiting the antichrist, preparing the way for his acceptance as the head of the hierarchy of gods and the one who will usher in world peace.

2. WARS
Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."

Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history. As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction. Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.

3. FAMINES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

As white, Christian farmers are driven out of Zimbabwe in increasing numbers, and foreigners move in to replace life-sustaining crops with poppies that now supply 25% of the worlds drugs, famine spreads across the African continent. The undernourished are not limited to Africa, however. A large portion of the worlds 5 billion people suffers from a shortage of food.

4. EARTHQUAKES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

The number and intensity of earthquakes this century is at a level higher than any other time in history. A staggering number of seismic events occur around the world daily. The earthquake seismic monitor IRIS shows all major earthquakes for the last year. Indicated by yellow and red circles, the seismic events of the last 15 days provides strong evidence of the fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 in our day. By contrast, in the years from 1890 to 1900 there was only one major earthquake in the world.

5. TRIBULATIONS
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."

Christians are under attack throughout the world today. (CAN I GET AN AMEN!?!?) In the United States Christians still enjoy freedom to worship God without suffering much more than ridicule, hatred, or discrimination at work and school. However in many other countries such as China, Sudan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Korea, Russia, and many Muslim nations, Christian suffer much greater persecution and often times death for their faith. During the tribulation this suffering will be worldwide and will continue even to the point of martyrdom. These first 5 signs will increase in intensity and severity as the tribulation approaches, much like the birth pangs or contractions of a pregnant woman worsen as the delivery time approaches.

6. THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

This prophecy has already been fulfilled through television, radio, missionaries, the translation of the Bible into many languages, and the internet. People all over the world now hear the message of Christ from missionaries who have the means to travel the globe, and via technology that allows us to communicate with people on the other side of the world right from our own homes, churches and offices.

[Kelly]

I copied/pasted my main point from this website, but here's some more "good reading"...

http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/endtimes.php

[Speedm0(\)key]

take it like this.. im satan. here to fuck with you. i will click what i want and tell you that i dont beleive in your jesus bullshit one bit. your online religious talks is what is getting old. SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Kelly]

I'll pray for ya ;)

[{X}Echo419]

take it like this.. im satan. here to fuck with you. i will click what i want and tell you that i dont beleive in your jesus bullshit one bit. your online religious talks is what is getting old. SHUT THE FUCK UP

[/pussy] get some

[man]

20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity? Haha, I opened it up to start reading and after reading number 1 I closed it and literally started laughing out loud out how ignorant and uninformed it was. Christians are raised in fear? This guy can't be serious.

Ok, I just went through and read all of the headlines. Ummm how can I put this, the claims stated here seem to attack catholics. I honestly couldn't read a single headline and relate it to the Lutheran denomination. I think it's incredibly ignorant to say that all Christians hate homosexuals and science and crap like that. In fact, we recently had a discussion in my church about homosexuality and the fact is, the bible states every sin is equal, yes I know it also states homosexuals will never enter heaven, but we'll leave that up to interpretation.

And science, I could sit here right now and give a detailed summary of Darwin's Origin of Species, I'm halfway through reading it my third time. I could fully explain the big bang theory (not the little kid version) for you also. I am a science freak, as are most of my christian friends and all of my science professors are christian.

I really don't know how any of the authors points are valid, and I could sit here and go through and disprove them one-by-one but I'm not here to try and convert you.

[Speedm0(\)key]

[/pussy] get some


fuck you and fuck christianity or any religion for that matter

[babowc]

that 20 list is just a one-sided arguement.
since when does christians only prey on the children? since when is it based on fear?
after jesus came and died for us, its been based on love ever since.
whoever wrote that 20 reasons crap should read the bible a little more carefully.

[Georgiaman]

take it like this.. im satan. here to fuck with you. i will click what i want and tell you that i dont beleive in your jesus bullshit one bit. your online religious talks is what is getting old. SHUT THE FUCK UP


hey man i just want to tell you that Jesus wants you and even though through your misery you feel like someone owes you compensation for the faults of other people that come against you. Just know that there is complete redemption and compensation in Jesus and he is desperate for you and he knows ur weaknesses and wants to help you with them your only duty is excepting it and u will most certainly fly. As for religion i really believe it could be the down fall of many. I believe being religious is man way to heaven. I dont want to go to heaven for the roses i want to go because of my relentless love for Christ. I hope i see you in the end man weither you want it or not i will pray for you.

[Hulud]

hey man i just want to tell you that Jesus wants you and even though through your misery you feel like someone owes you compensation for the faults of other people that come against you. Just know that there is complete redemption and compensation in Jesus and he is desperate for you and he knows ur weaknesses and wants to help you with them your only duty is excepting it and u will most certainly fly. As for religion i really believe it could be the down fall of many. I believe being religious is man way to heaven. I dont want to go to heaven for the roses i want to go because of my relentless love for Christ. I hope i see you in the end man weither you want it or not i will pray for you.
good for you

[Hulud]

[/pussy] get some
i bet will could take you, btw ive never met either one of you

[Hulud]

ur a dumb ass and no one likes u
:confused: who are you? o yea thats right no one likes you

[Romeyo07]

ok, so there's a lot of misquoting going on. I've noticed that scriptures are quoted, but they're being taken out of context and not fully given. There's a story behind the verse. That's like reading just one line out of Shakespear and forming your opinion on his story.

Christians, you've got one more in here.

[Stormhammer]

I first handedly don't see why people would make such strong arguements against it like that - and like Romeyo07 said - things were misqouted and taken out of context

for one thing - maybe southern baptists are raised in fear or something. I dunno if they still do it today. I know back in the olden day ( think 13 colonies ) when it was like God holds you over a fiery pits of hell on a silver string and he can glady cut it and let you fall ( some poem by some pastor dude - junior hs english is failing my memory hear, my apologies )

but in todays modern society its a very rare sight indeed to see anyone of any christian based ( or other as far as I'm aware of, but dont qoute me on this ) religion to be brought up in fear - I know there are the sayings to "fear God" but I never took it as the " omg he's gonna smite me dead if i dont do this" - more like just hold a respect for what I believe that He is capable of

[metalman]

for one thing - maybe southern baptists are raised in fear or something. I dunno if they still do it today. I know back in the olden day ( think 13 colonies ) when it was like God holds you over a fiery pits of hell on a silver string and he can glady cut it and let you fall ( some poem by some pastor dude - junior hs english is failing my memory hear, my apologies )

but in todays modern society its a very rare sight indeed to see anyone of any christian based ( or other as far as I'm aware of, but dont qoute me on this ) religion to be brought up in fear - I know there are the sayings to "fear God" but I never took it as the " omg he's gonna smite me dead if i dont do this" - more like just hold a respect for what I believe that He is capable of

Youre right. In the Bible its says "Fear God, give glory to Him...." The word fear usually leads us to a conclusion of being scared but the original wording used in the Bible has much more to do with RESPECT, WORSHIP, ACKOWLEGING God as our Creator.

It is also true however that many churches still employ methods of fear to entreat others to their fold. From the fabricated roman catholic teachings of hell, purgatory, limbo, the confessional etc etc to the Baptist/Pentecostal misunderstanding and subsequent focus on the "everlasting" fires of hell, and eveything in between, many (not all) churches still preach and utilize a fear approach.

The Bible/Gospel DOES contain a warning, and that is indeed PART of the picture, but not the whole of it. Gods everlasting love for all of humanity that doesnt in any way deserve any of His love should be the real focus. His willingness as Creator to work the miracle of creation within the human life, should be the focus.

[Romeyo07]

I'm not scared of God (so to speak), I fear him. It's respect, which in the original language of which the verses that speak about fearing God, that was the translation, just as a servant feared his boss, out of respect, not for punishment or anything.

I'm not Christian because I feel that if not I'm going to hell. I'm Christian because I acknowledge what Christ did for me. Since I've been a Christian, my life has been fantastic. I have NEVER gone without, I've been stress free, I've felt so great, knowing that I'm taken care of. When I'm in need, He has always come through. I'm living proof of what God can do with someone. I've got way too many stories of when God has proven himself to me to not believe he exists and loves me.

I'll be more than happy to have this conversation one on one with any of you.

I think there are too many people out there that think they "know" how church and christianity works, but really have a skewed view of it (this includes Christians). Again, I'll be more than happy to enlighten you. It's really not as hard as people think it is. Best part about it is that you don't have to try to change who you are....

[4dmin]

I think there are too many people out there that think they "know" how church and christianity works, but really have a skewed view of it (this includes Christians). Again, I'll be more than happy to enlighten you. It's really not as hard as people think it is. Best part about it is that you don't have to try to change who you are....

what? hold on you don't have to change who you are to be christian? really....? SINS are instinct how are you not changing yourself?

[Jaimecbr900]

SINS are instinct how are you not changing yourself?

Hold on broham......a "sin" is a choice behavior by itself. We are all born "sinners" but TO "sin" is a learned behavior and not a programmed one.

[metalman]

Best part about it is that you don't have to try to change who you are....

Thats correct. The Creator does the changing for you, its by His power, not our own, that a person becomes 'new'. He does the 'work', all we have to do is allow it. ;)

[Romeyo07]

which is why its not as hard as people think it is. Not once did I personally want to stop doing what I was doing, God changed the desire in me. I don't want it anymore, totally out of the blue. What's even better is that its only the beginning of a great thing...you'd be shocked to hear some of the things I've seen and been through.

[Romeyo07]

what? hold on you don't have to change who you are to be christian? really....? SINS are instinct how are you not changing yourself?

No, I wont change a thing nor will I try. God will change me. He knows we're going to sin, which is why he sent Jesus to die for us. His blood covers our sins, always....every single time. He changes us so that we try to sin less. This is so that His sacrifice doesn't become in vain.

I thought I needed all of the things I was into (alcoholism, drugs, etc.). I thought that was life and I was nothing without my vices. I now have zero desire for the things I once longed for. I loved getting hammered when I had a bad day, or light a spliff at lunchtime to relax. It wasn't love, it was a blindfold.

From your end, you see it as things you can't live without...from His end He sees it as things that hold you back from truely living.

[Hulud]

Christians, you've got one more in here.
reinforcements have arrived :lmfao:

[Romeyo07]

reinforcements have arrived :lmfao:

I left the sniper rifle at home, so you're safe.

[Hulud]

I left the sniper rifle at home, so you're safe.
ummm ok....

[Romeyo07]

you said "reinforcements are in" so I was thinking of the military....



nevermind.

[Hulud]

you said "reinforcements are in" so I was thinking of the military....



nevermind.
ah ok gotcha i wasnt sure if you were mad lol

[4dmin]

No, I wont change a thing nor will I try. God will change me. He knows we're going to sin, which is why he sent Jesus to die for us. His blood covers our sins, always....every single time. He changes us so that we try to sin less. This is so that His sacrifice doesn't become in vain.

I thought I needed all of the things I was into (alcoholism, drugs, etc.). I thought that was life and I was nothing without my vices. I now have zero desire for the things I once longed for. I loved getting hammered when I had a bad day, or light a spliff at lunchtime to relax. It wasn't love, it was a blindfold.

From your end, you see it as things you can't live without...from His end He sees it as things that hold you back from truely living.

so what your saying is you can't think for yourself? sucks for you. :goodjob:

[Romeyo07]

So what you're saying is that you're always right? Ignorance sure must be bliss.

You're missing the point. I still make my own decisions, the difference is that I don't desire the things that were really hindering me (i.e. the drugs and alcohol), hence deciding to stop. I made that decision, not God.

[Hulud]

So what you're saying is that you're always right? Ignorance sure must be bliss.
look in a mirror buddy :goodjob:

[Romeyo07]

I don't see how that relates to me. Explain please....

[Hulud]

I don't see how that relates to me. Explain please....
how do you not?
your claiming hes not always right, yet you claim christianity is..

calling the kettle black eh?

[Romeyo07]

no...I mean him as in all of his actions in his daily life, not his answers to my questions.

[Hulud]

no...I mean him as in all of his actions in his daily life, not his answers to my questions.
do you know paul personally?
didnt think so
then how can you say thats how he thinks?
all you can base it on is the responses in this forum

[Romeyo07]

from his reply he said "so what you're saying is that you can't think for yourself", telling me that (a) someone's making my decisions (b) he doesn't need anyone to sway his daily actions because...why, because he thinks that the things he's doing are right (I'm not saying he's wrong, and I don't know him, just making a statement based on what he said).

I'm not talking about him personally, he's probably a great guy, who knows.

[BABY J]

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070905/sc_nm/britain_embryo_dc

[SL65AMG]

talk about a resurrection from the dead....

[cactusEG]

shit im not really i bible thumper. i havnt been to church in years for stupid reasons

[Deke]

I can't believe I just read this whole thing...I hate you Baby J.

[WHT_EP3]

wwjd
werd
i think everyone should believe what they want and keep those 20 reason in the trash
and that guy can shove the picket sign up his @$s:yes: :bannana:

[xlilvi3tx]

damn this thing is pretty old. but yeh i hate all religions i think its stupid. god n all that other bullshiet is made by man to get people to do or not do something. that my opinion.

[Capt._Ron]

I read that and all I can think is... if your a pussy then Christianity is the wrong religion for you. ha ha. This guy basically took the basic problems of humanity found a way to blame them on Christianity. He doesn't really say anything that everyone doesn't already know. Lets face the facts Christians, atheist, Muslims, Buddhist, whoever. We are all human and we are all imperfect. We all have fear, we are all egotistical, we all tend to do the wrong things. The author seems to be in denial that he is essentially a scared, weak, insignificant individual with a tendency toward selfish desires. This is just a pitiful attempt to justify doing whatever you want.

[Crazy Asian]

BLAHAHAHAH it like he contridicted himself. All religions are like that. Moron it just not chiristanity that does that.