Hello VW/Audi tuners i hve a few questions...

[Spyder]

So in light of my bad luck with my eclipse i may be forced to take a look into a new car..

So i started looking at cars that range in price from 3000 to about 15000 there are pros and cons for anything in that price range a few of the cars that i found that i thought i may like were various VW/Audi models including but not limited to a Audi A4 and the VW GTI. After deciding that i basically wanted something a little larger then the car i am currently driving i thought i would really like driving the A4... well i drove my cousins 2002 A4 1.8t and was much less then impressed.. it was an absolute dog. my factory eclipse spyder GS was conciderably faster even with no modifications and no turbo. His car was absolutely factory and i assume there was something wrong with it. Now dont get me wrong there were some good points ... it handled well and was very comfortable to drive. everything was placed nicely in terms of driver comfort but wow was it slow. i was wondering if that was just because it was basically a slow 4 door awd family car or if there was seriously something not happy in the car.

This brings me to my next question:
Is the 1.8T just a dog in factory form or again was there something wrong?

Is the V6 just a better motor?


I have read the discussion on this form as to which was better and it seemed to be a hands down 1.8 wins.

My cousin mentioned that the 1.8 really comes alive with a "chip" i just find it hard to belive that this car could be fast enough to be even worth driving with just a chip...

So i assume that basic power to weight ratios play out here and a A4 would be alot more fun at high (300+) HP but the GTI could really shine with its signifigantly lower weight and same(?) hp/torque.

So this leads into my last 3 question...

1) are there any known issues with these cars/motors that just have to be addressed before you can begin building them?

2)How much money does it take to get a 1.8T or VR6 to the 300hp range. I am used to driving a car that is around the 240 turbo horse power range in a sport compact and can't imagion not having that power (or close to it in terms of power to weight)

3)I want a fun to drive great handeling 300ish hp reliable daily drive is this platform capable of delivering what i expect and demand or should i just look for another ride?

Thanks alot for reading my novel and trying to understand what the hell im saying ;)

PS if any of you guys are near Lawrencville and wouldnt mind taking me for a ride in a factory or modified car so i can get a true feel for it cars it would be much appreciated. oh... and have a list of mods and cash invested ready :)

[Allstar3.8T]

I can only comment on my car, and its experiences, others may vary....
--First the chip. Unlike Hondas, and DSMs, the VW/Audis are Horribly detuned to increase fuel mileage. This means alot of things, but to be brief, the chip awakens the car $ for $ more than any mod you'll most likely perform. I went from 180 rated crank hp,(generally 155-160 whp) to 210 WHP and 260 WTQ on chip and a replacment air filter.
--The GTI is a better performance platform in that its handling is more neutral, and balanced, and far lighter than an A4....for that matter a Jetta is also lighter...and very able to handle w/ A4s. Also, most A4s are the 170 hp version, vs the 99.5-01 VWs 150 hp, then in 02-05 the VW went to 180 hp.
--Before beginning, realize the chip is the big mod, DownPipe (DP) is probably the next most beneficial, followed by a CatBack Exhaust (CB). After that alot of the mods are fluff. Ex-A front mount intercooler (FMIC) rarely gains any real HP, it only saves lost HP in extreme heat situations, so it is way down the list on need, and value. Also, you'll read alot about "DV"s. This is a diverter valve, it also gains nothing, it is a recirculating blow off Valve our cars use....so the ECU can read boost. When the let go, they cause minor probs, and an aftermarket upgrade is $100 -$200 bucks. Most of us buy one early on to easy the headache it can later become. Also the N75 is a wastegate valve that acts slower to hold the WG open longer to maintain boost longer for shifts for one of many reasons. They are $75ish. No real HP to the ground (maybe 3-4) but you will end up getting one I am sure.
--To get a VW 1.8T to 300 whp is alot. To get it to 240 WHP is alot. Consider this, you need a chip, DP, CB, CAI, Dog Bone mount replacment, better DV, N75 valve upgrade for the wastegate, clutch to get it down, and a lightened flywheel helps these cars a great deal. All of this is alot of $$, and probably wont get you 240 WHP....it will however get you around 275 WTQ on good fuel. VWs are TQ makers, unlike the jap counter parts. 300 WHP will require a upgraded turbo, and software again...injectors, manifold, and so on. If you need 300 WHP, skip all the typical traditions, and go all at once to this level.
-- Try to not think only in HP, since VWs do make TQ, you may find you get where you want in perf before the 300 benchmark, because of the easy to make TQ. My car w/ 210 whp did a 14.1, I have raced GST eclipses w/ 16g turbos that ran 14.5s and had more power....but we have better TQ generally. A local guy has bolt ons in a GTI, on stock turbo and has run 13.2s....thats pretty quick for a MKIV car.
--Finally, I live in Grayson area, and drive the blk/gray 2 toned Jetta. I have all the mods outside the turbo. I dont mind giving you a ride, it will be after Southern Volks fest in late April though. I am rebuilding the tranny after that show. Currently it is jacked up from a defective install I am told.

Anyway, hope this helps, and like I stated, this is all based on my experiences w/ my two late model Jetta 1.8Ts.

[chmura]

So in light of my bad luck with my eclipse i may be forced to take a look into a new car..

So i started looking at cars that range in price from 3000 to about 15000 there are pros and cons for anything in that price range a few of the cars that i found that i thought i may like were various VW/Audi models including but not limited to a Audi A4 and the VW GTI. After deciding that i basically wanted something a little larger then the car i am currently driving i thought i would really like driving the A4... well i drove my cousins 2002 A4 1.8t and was much less then impressed.. it was an absolute dog. my factory eclipse spyder GS was conciderably faster even with no modifications and no turbo. His car was absolutely factory and i assume there was something wrong with it. Now dont get me wrong there were some good points ... it handled well and was very comfortable to drive. everything was placed nicely in terms of driver comfort but wow was it slow. i was wondering if that was just because it was basically a slow 4 door awd family car or if there was seriously something not happy in the car.

This brings me to my next question:
Is the 1.8T just a dog in factory form or again was there something wrong?

Is the V6 just a better motor?


I have read the discussion on this form as to which was better and it seemed to be a hands down 1.8 wins.

My cousin mentioned that the 1.8 really comes alive with a "chip" i just find it hard to belive that this car could be fast enough to be even worth driving with just a chip...

So i assume that basic power to weight ratios play out here and a A4 would be alot more fun at high (300+) HP but the GTI could really shine with its signifigantly lower weight and same(?) hp/torque.

So this leads into my last 3 question...

1) are there any known issues with these cars/motors that just have to be addressed before you can begin building them?

2)How much money does it take to get a 1.8T or VR6 to the 300hp range. I am used to driving a car that is around the 240 turbo horse power range in a sport compact and can't imagion not having that power (or close to it in terms of power to weight)

3)I want a fun to drive great handeling 300ish hp reliable daily drive is this platform capable of delivering what i expect and demand or should i just look for another ride?

Thanks alot for reading my novel and trying to understand what the hell im saying ;)

PS if any of you guys are near Lawrencville and wouldnt mind taking me for a ride in a factory or modified car so i can get a true feel for it cars it would be much appreciated. oh... and have a list of mods and cash invested ready :)



I'll take ya for a ride in the getta......

Chip makes a big difference.....

if u want bigger go with a Jetta.....

I think we can all say 1.8t all the way.....


Greg gave u a shit load of info... which I agree with....


and BTW... HP means nothing.... take a ride in a modded one and u will see.... just cause it may not produce 300 hp... doesn't mean it won't throw ya in your seat....

[gtikid]

i'm new to the VW "world" also and i also came from owning a non-turbo eclipse...and yes there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference in the GTI and the eclipse man...like they said, it is a hell of a lot more torquey(is that word)...i have a stock VR6 and would of preferred the 1.8t but hey i'm not complaining...i live in lilburn dude and if you want i can give you a ride in the stock GTI and then you can get a ride from a modded VW from one of these guys...they are really fun cars to drive too

[DeutscheBAG!]

very well put Greg!


i have the 150HP 1.8t motor...not the quickest in stock form, but decent power to keep me happy till i modded it...Chip. downpipe, and exhuast..aftermarket DV now it hauls serious arse.
def go for a ride in a modded one. i just have simple bolts on, i would be more than happy to gove u a ride

[Spyder]

I really appreciate the replies and information. i understand by seing your numbers that these things make some nasty torque which is completely ok by me :)

As you mentioned Greg I am from the world of DSM's where HP is pretty easy to obtain atleast to the 300 HP mark and that is where it starts to get fun... that is also where it starts to get expensive... If i could build a VW to preform or even out perform (it is german after all it has to handle better) A 300 HP is DSM i would be happy. I have found past that that factory internal motors start to have issues. I have to be honest here, i don't need a 10 second car if i wanted one of those i would start with an american car. I want a fun to drive car that produces decent power (which i know is relative) that handles well and is reliable. if a VW with a 230hp 1.8T is as fast or faster then a 300 hp DSM im ok with that. The added torque and the fact they are undoubtedly lighter should more then balance out.

Now with all that said here are the questions that were raised by the responces as to how to make some power..

DV? Diverter valve yes i caught that part... why isnt it called a BOV or a recirculator valve? is it something different or just has a special name? btw i heard a GTI witha 1.8T the last time i was on a mountain run and the last thing he was using was a recirculating valve.

Dog Bone? i have no clue on this one lol.

CAI i assume this is the same as CAI on a NA car. maybe im missing something but on most turbo cars the idea is to get as much crap out from in front of the turbo as possible... or CAI is something unique to these cars that i am not firmilar with.

If anyone happens to know details on this local car with bolt ons that is running 13.2 in a quarter i would be interested. That is plenty fast for me and possibly in time realistic :)

[Spyder]

i'm new to the VW "world" also and i also came from owning a non-turbo eclipse...and yes there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference in the GTI and the eclipse man...like they said, it is a hell of a lot more torquey(is that word)...i have a stock VR6 and would of preferred the 1.8t but hey i'm not complaining...i live in lilburn dude and if you want i can give you a ride in the stock GTI and then you can get a ride from a modded VW from one of these guys...they are really fun cars to drive too

I have a eclipse spyder with a 2.4 it is also boosted now and is not lacking torque ;) but i do know what you mean these things sound like diesels that rev lol.

[Allstar3.8T]

--Dog Bone is the lower rear mount that tends to flex alot and allow torque toss, once replaced the engine sits still, an insert kit also works well.
--CAI is cold air intake, and it works well on our cars as well, once moving. Any open element sitting near a hot engine bay is bad. My intercooler N2O kit I am making will also spray a little towards the filter as well for that reason.
--The DV vs BOV is simply a BOV releases into the atmosphere, A DV doesnt. Once you start blowing off boost, and not Diverting it, a CEL (Check Engine Light) may appear, and compromise power. BTW, an intake will make the DV loud like a BOV if thats what you want...so I recommend staying DV and not BOV, even if you just wanna hear it spit.
The GTI is Adam , its a 03 Golf 1.8T Gray in color. He is currently in Auburn ALA, and comes here (home) frequently. He is chipped, 3" DP, 3" CB. CAI, Pulleys, Clutch /PP/Lt flywheel and all the -$100 things like DV, N75 etc etc. Great guy.

[Spyder]

Ok thanks alot for the information.

Dog bone makes sense, any time you can stiffen the motor mounts it helps with power transfer.

I know that a actual BOV in a system that is designed for a reciculating valve isnt a great idea. I just didnt know if the one is this car was electric or something else special.. you said it was needed so the ECU could read boost thats the part that threw me :)

Using a CAI on a Turbo car has always been a huge no no. The temperature of the air coming into the turbo truely matters only so much because it can be made up for as it goes thru the front mount. that is generally speaking ofcourse and seems to be a bit different for some reason in these cars.. thanks for the heads up :)

[4dmin]

1.8t you'll never regret it

[Chuckster]

wow iv learned alot jsut now about my car, lol

im new to the family also. Well kinda, had the car now for 7 months now. But yea, great fun cars.

i ran 14.8 @ 96mph w/ my girl in the car and my mods are CAI, DV, catback, and chip. not much money spent either