NAME ONE THING OBAMA HAS DONE RIGHT... WITH FACTS AND STATISTICS.

[Echonova]

Convince me and you will win a prize of my choosing.










GO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Benefit]

hes a frog

[Echonova]

hes a frogInteresting. Not sure I understand completely though.


Elaborate please and the magical prize COULD BE YOURS!!!!

[AFSil80]

He continued the new tradition of "vanquishing thine enemies" via drone strikes, while somehow "achieving" a Nobel "Peace" Prize.

http://i.lvme.me/etdej29.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

He fought for planned parenthood, who places 80%+ of its abortion clinics in predominantly minority communities.

Whats my prize?

"God bless planned parenthood"-Obama

[David88vert]

Convince me and you will win a prize of my choosing.



GO!!!!!!!!!!!



He got Osama Bin Laden - something Bush couldn't do.

Bush started hunting bin Laden on 9/13/2001 - never got him.

On June 2, 2009, just over four months into his presidency, President Obama sent a memo to CIA Director Leon Panetta directing him to provide, within 30 days, a detailed operational plan for locating bin Laden and bringing him to justice - bin Laden was dead on 5/1/2011.


Another is the The Maersk Alabama hijacking in 2009.

Still another is the GM bailout.

I want a cookie. Make it chocolate chip.

[Sinfix_15]

He got Osama Bin Laden - something Bush couldn't do.

Bush started hunting bin Laden on 9/13/2001 - never got him.

On June 2, 2009, just over four months into his presidency, President Obama sent a memo to CIA Director Leon Panetta directing him to provide, within 30 days, a detailed operational plan for locating bin Laden and bringing him to justice - bin Laden was dead on 5/1/2011.


Another is the The Maersk Alabama hijacking in 2009.

Still another is the GM bailout.

I want a cookie. Make it chocolate chip.

For argument's sake

Can you prove to me that US troops killed Bin laden.

[David88vert]

For argument's sake

Can you prove to me that US troops killed Bin laden.

Sure. Proof exists, but you are free to deny the truth if you like.

Al-Qaeda confirmed the death on May 6 with posts made on militant websites, vowing to avenge the killing. - Reported by the Associated Press and ABC News.
Also, the Center for Strategic and International Studies reported on July 25, 2011, that the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan also vowed retaliation against the U.S. and against Pakistan for not preventing the operation.

His followers admitted it, what do you know about bin Laden that they don't?

The US Congressional leadership and those who serve in a committee of intelligence, homeland security, judiciary, foreign relations, and military were shown 15 of the bin Laden photos. Don't you think that the Republicans would have been all over this if he wasn't dead?

[Sinfix_15]

Sure. Proof exists, but you are free to deny the truth if you like.

Al-Qaeda confirmed the death on May 6 with posts made on militant websites, vowing to avenge the killing. - Reported by the Associated Press and ABC News.
Also, the Center for Strategic and International Studies reported on July 25, 2011, that the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan also vowed retaliation against the U.S. and against Pakistan for not preventing the operation.

His followers admitted it, what do you know about bin Laden that they don't?

The US Congressional leadership and those who serve in a committee of intelligence, homeland security, judiciary, foreign relations, and military were shown 15 of the bin Laden photos. Don't you think that the Republicans would have been all over this if he wasn't dead?
People reacting to news is proof?

Let me rephrase question. Any evidence that proves a US soldier killed bin laden?

[AFSil80]

The GM bailout is not something to be proud of, BTW.

Also, pretty sure it was SEALs that killed the Somali pirates, and so no credit to Ol'Barry for that one...esp since he sat on his hands during Benghazi.

[Matt300ZXT]

And even if Bin Laden really was killed when they said, how can you give him credit for the 4 months of office and they got him when Bush and his guys spent all the money and time gathering intel that led to his death? That's someone else doing all the work and someone else coming in at the last minute and taking all the credit.

[Sinfix_15]

And even if Bin Laden really was killed when they said, how can you give him credit for the 4 months of office and they got him when Bush and his guys spent all the money and time gathering intel that led to his death? That's someone else doing all the work and someone else coming in at the last minute and taking all the credit.

Enjoying the fruit of someone elses labor is the longest standing democratic tradition in the book.

[BanginJimmy]

He got Osama Bin Laden - something Bush couldn't do.


Bin Laden was simply him being the one in office at the right time. It is well known that the info that eventually led to bin Laden was acquired during the Bush admin, using tactics that Obama outlawed.



Another is the The Maersk Alabama hijacking in 2009.


This is the only one I could come up with. While it wasnt a major international issue, I think he handled it well.




As I have said, the Obama admin has been pretty damn quiet outside of self inflicted crisis. The current situation in Easter Europe has the ability to define his admin from a foreign policy viewpoint.

[Echonova]

He got Osama Bin Laden - something Bush couldn't do.

Bush started hunting bin Laden on 9/13/2001 - never got him.

On June 2, 2009, just over four months into his presidency, President Obama sent a memo to CIA Director Leon Panetta directing him to provide, within 30 days, a detailed operational plan for locating bin Laden and bringing him to justice - bin Laden was dead on 5/1/2011. Close, but Obama had to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually pull the trigger on that operation. There is some debate on whether he even made that decision or if it was made for him. One thing's for sure, it interrupted his golf game.



Another is the The Maersk Alabama hijacking in 2009.I saw Captain Phillips. The pirates weren't that scary.


Still another is the GM bailout.Yeah, and they also should have issued a huge recall on those pesky ignition switches in that same time period and didn't. But they aren't Toyota, so even though there was harm, there will be no foul.


I want a cookie. Make it chocolate chip.Because I am benevolent... I will give you a chocolate chip cookie.
For argument's sake

Can you prove to me that US troops killed Bin laden.I know I'm late to the party on responses... But the rumor is the pics of his dead body weren't released is because it was riddled with bullet holes. Like a lot.

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/1976921_643667992336254_2080637175_n_zps6751f422.j pg

[Sinfix_15]

Close, but Obama had to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually pull the trigger on that operation. There is some debate on whether he even made that decision or if it was made for him. One thing's for sure, it interrupted his golf game.


I saw Captain Phillips. The pirates weren't that scary.

Yeah, and they also should have issued a huge recall on those pesky ignition switches in that same time period and didn't. But they aren't Toyota, so even though there was harm, there will be no foul.

Because I am benevolent... I will give you a chocolate chip cookie.I know I'm late to the party on responses... But the rumor is the pics of his dead body weren't released is because it was riddled with bullet holes. Like a lot.
Makes sense..... you know, to refuse closure and sow doubt in the minds of Americans after they endured a decade of war and forfeited freedoms to catch one man.

I hear the sand monkeys had a nice traditional muslim funeral for him though. Good for them.

How are those seals who killed him doing?

[BanginJimmy]

But the rumor is the pics of his dead body weren't released is because it was riddled with bullet holes. Like a lot.

Extreme overkill would be a very good reason to suppress the pics. Not only could it incite even further violence, but it could also prove to put a black mark on the professionalism of the SEALS, which is bad for everyone involved.


In the end, I dont believe anyone benefits from the release of the pics. I grant you that I have some morbid curiosity, but there is no benefit to their release.

[David88vert]

People reacting to news is proof?

Let me rephrase question. Any evidence that proves a US soldier killed bin laden?

Yes, as I stated, Al-Qaeda confirmed the death on May 6 with posts made on militant websites, vowing to avenge the killing.
What possible purpose would it serve them to do that if he had not been taken?

If you refuse to ignore reality, that's not my problem.

[David88vert]

The GM bailout is not something to be proud of, BTW.

Also, pretty sure it was SEALs that killed the Somali pirates, and so no credit to Ol'Barry for that one...esp since he sat on his hands during Benghazi.

The approval order supposedly came from the President on that one.
As Commander-In-Chief, the blame for failures and credit for successes both land on his shoulders. That's true for all US Presidents.

[David88vert]

And even if Bin Laden really was killed when they said, how can you give him credit for the 4 months of office and they got him when Bush and his guys spent all the money and time gathering intel that led to his death? That's someone else doing all the work and someone else coming in at the last minute and taking all the credit.


Simple - Bush had almost 2 full terms to get it done, and in the last term, we never had a solid lead on him - and that's according to Bush.

[David88vert]

Enjoying the fruit of someone elses labor is the longest standing democratic tradition in the book.

True statement in most cases.

[David88vert]

Bin Laden was simply him being the one in office at the right time. It is well known that the info that eventually led to bin Laden was acquired during the Bush admin, using tactics that Obama outlawed.

Except that the facts that we know now speak differently. Obama made it a priority to get bin Laden, long after Bush kept saying that it didn't matter if bin Laden was alive or dead - "he was not the main person still leading al-Queda".





This is the only one I could come up with. While it wasnt a major international issue, I think he handled it well.


So, you agree that I should get my cookie! :D



As I have said, the Obama admin has been pretty damn quiet outside of self inflicted crisis. The current situation in Easter Europe has the ability to define his admin from a foreign policy viewpoint.

Agreed.

[David88vert]

Close, but Obama had to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually pull the trigger on that operation. There is some debate on whether he even made that decision or if it was made for him. One thing's for sure, it interrupted his golf game.


I saw Captain Phillips. The pirates weren't that scary.

Yeah, and they also should have issued a huge recall on those pesky ignition switches in that same time period and didn't. But they aren't Toyota, so even though there was harm, there will be no foul.

Because I am benevolent... I will give you a chocolate chip cookie.I know I'm late to the party on responses... But the rumor is the pics of his dead body weren't released is because it was riddled with bullet holes. Like a lot.

Obama had to give the order - no one else was allowed to. He did it and I hope that he wrestled with the thought of it. No President should just nonchalantly give an order to put US soldiers in harms way without thinking about it completely.

I didn't see Capt Phillips, just followed the published reports.

When can I expect to take delivery of my cookie? It better be one of those "Great American Cookie Company" giant cookies! :D

[Sinfix_15]

Yes, as I stated, Al-Qaeda confirmed the death on May 6 with posts made on militant websites, vowing to avenge the killing.
What possible purpose would it serve them to do that if he had not been taken?

If you refuse to ignore reality, that's not my problem.
Youre jumping to conclusions. Im simply asking questions. I dont feel ive seen any proof presented tho

[David88vert]

Youre jumping to conclusions. Im simply asking questions. I dont feel ive seen any proof presented tho

What part of Al-Qaeda confirming his death confusing to you?

"In a historic day for the great Islamic nation... the mujahid (holy warrior) Shiekh Abu Abdullah, Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden, God have mercy on him, was killed on the path taken by those before him and will be taken by others after him."
"Congratulations to the Islamic umma (community) for the martyrdom of its son Osama."
"We call upon our Muslim people in Pakistan, on whose land Sheikh Osama was killed, to rise up and revolt to cleanse this shame that has been attached to them by a clique of traitors and thieves ... and in general to cleanse their country from the filth of the Americans who spread corruption in it."

Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death and vows revenge | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-binladen-qaeda-confirmation-idUSTRE74528A20110506)

[Sinfix_15]

What part of Al-Qaeda confirming his death confusing to you?

"In a historic day for the great Islamic nation... the mujahid (holy warrior) Shiekh Abu Abdullah, Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden, God have mercy on him, was killed on the path taken by those before him and will be taken by others after him."
"Congratulations to the Islamic umma (community) for the martyrdom of its son Osama."
"We call upon our Muslim people in Pakistan, on whose land Sheikh Osama was killed, to rise up and revolt to cleanse this shame that has been attached to them by a clique of traitors and thieves ... and in general to cleanse their country from the filth of the Americans who spread corruption in it."

Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death and vows revenge | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-binladen-qaeda-confirmation-idUSTRE74528A20110506)

This is not proof. Source is not credible. No muslim's "word" is proof of anything. Show me statements from someone on the ground when it happened...

Oh.. thats right. Anyone who could refute the story of the most transparent admin ever has mysteriously died.

No worries.. lets check the recorded data.... oh wait.. mysteriously it was blacked out.

[Sinfix_15]

Im not making any conclusion as to what happened.... just noting some possible motives.

Muslims benefited by the reelection of Obama. They benefit from giving the US credit for bin ladens death. "He died of cancer" doesnt exactly get the jihad juices flowing.

So hit me back with some proof. Id love to see some.

[David88vert]

This is not proof. Source is not credible. No muslim's "word" is proof of anything. Show me statements from someone on the ground when it happened...

Oh.. thats right. Anyone who could refute the story of the most transparent admin ever has mysteriously died.

No worries.. lets check the recorded data.... oh wait.. mysteriously it was blacked out.

So, let's see - you won't believe what the government says - they can't be truthful. You won't believe what a group that has nothing to gain by lying about it says - they can't be truthful.
Basically, you will only believe conspiracy theories from groups that have no actual knowledge of the events.
Got it - you're a conspiracy theory supporter.


Im not making any conclusion as to what happened.... just noting some possible motives.

Muslims benefited by the reelection of Obama. They benefit from giving the US credit for bin ladens death. "He died of cancer" doesnt exactly get the jihad juices flowing.

So hit me back with some proof. Id love to see some.

Yes, you are making conclusions. You are concluding that both the government and al-Qaeda have conspired to support a "lie" that Osama bin Laden was killed. You most certainly are making that conclusion by believing that both groups would have a reason to support the same "lie".

I guess that you don't believe the ex-Seal Team 6 members who have stated that they know exactly which one of the team shot bin Laden - they must be lying as well, right? There were 23 Team 6 members on that operation, and you apparently seem to have a low regard for the truthfulness of our US soldiers.

All of the top brass in the military must be liars as well. Those ten emails that were about bin Laden's burial must have been faked, or there must be a well organized conspiracy across multiple branches of the military, plus multiple branches of the government, and both Congressional parties. The Republicans must have decided to keep Obama's secret while they were trying to get Romney elected as well.
That sounds more plausible to you than Obama actually managed to kill Osama, right?

[Sinfix_15]

So, let's see - you won't believe what the government says - they can't be truthful. You won't believe what a group that has nothing to gain by lying about it says - they can't be truthful.
Basically, you will only believe conspiracy theories from groups that have no actual knowledge of the events.
Got it - you're a conspiracy theory supporter.



Yes, you are making conclusions. You are concluding that both the government and al-Qaeda have conspired to support a "lie" that Osama bin Laden was killed. You most certainly are making that conclusion by believing that both groups would have a reason to support the same "lie".

I guess that you don't believe the ex-Seal Team 6 members who have stated that they know exactly which one of the team shot bin Laden - they must be lying as well, right? There were 23 Team 6 members on that operation, and you apparently seem to have a low regard for the truthfulness of our US soldiers.

All of the top brass in the military must be liars as well. Those ten emails that were about bin Laden's burial must have been faked, or there must be a well organized conspiracy across multiple branches of the military, plus multiple branches of the government, and both Congressional parties. The Republicans must have decided to keep Obama's secret while they were trying to get Romney elected as well.
That sounds more plausible to you than Obama actually managed to kill Osama, right?

I dont believe in any "conspiracy theory", just saying how fishy this smells.

I dont think bin laden is alive. I dont think we know the whole truth. I dont trust the word of our government anymore than i do AQ.

Better to ask too many questions than not enough.

[David88vert]

I dont believe in any "conspiracy theory", just saying how fishy this smells.

I dont think bin laden is alive. I dont think we know the whole truth. I dont trust the word of our government anymore than i do AQ.

Better to ask too many questions than not enough.


You don't believe the word of Muslims (your own statement).
You don't believe the word of al-Qaeda.
You don't believe the President.
You don't believe the members of Seal Team 6.
You don't believe the military's top brass.
You don't believe the top new organizations in the world.
You don't believe either side of Congress (Democrats or Republicans).

So, who would you consider a credible source on this? So far, the only people that you seem to be trusting are the ones wearing tin foil hats.

[Sinfix_15]

You don't believe the word of Muslims (your own statement).
You don't believe the word of al-Qaeda.
You don't believe the President.
You don't believe the members of Seal Team 6.
You don't believe the military's top brass.
You don't believe the top new organizations in the world.
You don't believe either side of Congress (Democrats or Republicans).

So, who would you consider a credible source on this? So far, the only people that you seem to be trusting are the ones wearing tin foil hats.

What tin foil hat story am i believing? I trust only the facts that can be proven.

I want to know why all the seals are now dead from a "lucky" rocket.

I want to know why the recording of the raid is lost/blacked out.

I want to know why our increasingly anti christian government honored muslim burial traditions.

Just like the families of the dead soldiers do.



Bin laden should have been buried in pig shit and any muslim who protested it should have joined him. I dont question that he died. I question the deal we made to find him and the events that followed. I question the muslim empathy in washington.

Do you think our gov has nothing to hide? If so... why are they trying so hard to hide it.

[David88vert]

What tin foil hat story am i believing? I trust only the facts that can be proven.

I want to know why all the seals are now dead from a "lucky" rocket.

I want to know why the recording of the raid is lost/blacked out.

I want to know why our increasingly anti christian government honored muslim burial traditions.

Just like the families of the dead soldiers do.



Bin laden should have been buried in pig shit and any muslim who protested it should have joined him. I dont question that he died. I question the deal we made to find him and the events that followed. I question the muslim empathy in washington.

Do you think our gov has nothing to hide? If so... why are they trying so hard to hide it.

Based upon your response, there is no source that you would find credible.

BTW - Can you "prove" that all 23 of the Seal Team 6 members 'are now dead from a "lucky" rocket'?

[AFSil80]

The approval order supposedly came from the President on that one.
As Commander-In-Chief, the blame for failures and credit for successes both land on his shoulders. That's true for all US Presidents.

And the GM bailout was/is a huge failure. $26B expense on the tax payers' dime + buying in on failing stock, to be accurate.

[Sammich]

And even if Bin Laden really was killed when they said, how can you give him credit for the 4 months of office and they got him when Bush and his guys spent all the money and time gathering intel that led to his death? That's someone else doing all the work and someone else coming in at the last minute and taking all the credit.

with that..i just want to ask this question, with all that Bush had messed up while he was in office that Obama inherited as well, how can you blame all the bad on Obama?

[Sinfix_15]

with that..i just want to ask this question, with all that Bush had messed up while he was in office that Obama inherited as well, how can you blame all the bad on Obama?
Even if you only give Obama credit for the words out of his own mouth and the strokes of his own pen, he is by a massive margin the worst president in history.

Feel free to claim the bounty and tell us something the community organizer has done right.

[Sinfix_15]

Based upon your response, there is no source that you would find credible.

BTW - Can you "prove" that all 23 of the Seal Team 6 members 'are now dead from a "lucky" rocket'?

Ok blankcd, im sorry i dont consider forum posts on importasscrackistan to be credible evidence.

No, i cant prove that the seals are dead from a "lucky rocket". They may be on a beach somewhere, but thats what our government told thier families. It would be pretty cruel if that was a lie.

Investigation still pending.


Theres no level of deception that would surprise me from the US government.

?No Chance? Mission Compromised: Obama Pentagon Claims They Have No Idea Why Seal Team 6 Members Were Slaughtered « Pat Dollard (http://patdollard.com/2014/02/no-chance-mission-compromised-obama-pentagon-claims-they-have-no-idea-why-seal-team-6-members-were-slaughtered/)

[David88vert]

And the GM bailout was/is a huge failure. $26B expense on the tax payers' dime + buying in on failing stock, to be accurate.

GM Bailout Ends as U.S. Sells Last of (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-09/gm-bailout-ends-as-u-s-sells-last-of-government-motors-.html)

[Vteckidd]

Bin Laden is dead, and like Jimmy said there is NO reason to release the photos. It would be throwing gas on a fire. I feel Obama handled it well. One of the few times he showed strength.

I feel hes gotten wrong:
The economy
Healthcare
Most foreign policy
leadership in the senate and house


So i cant really find anything hes done RIGHT.

[Vteckidd]

249924

[David88vert]

Ok blankcd, im sorry i dont consider forum posts on importasscrackistan to be credible evidence.

No, i cant prove that the seals are dead from a "lucky rocket". They may be on a beach somewhere, but thats what our government told thier families. It would be pretty cruel if that was a lie.

Investigation still pending.


Theres no level of deception that would surprise me from the US government.

?No Chance? Mission Compromised: Obama Pentagon Claims They Have No Idea Why Seal Team 6 Members Were Slaughtered « Pat Dollard (http://patdollard.com/2014/02/no-chance-mission-compromised-obama-pentagon-claims-they-have-no-idea-why-seal-team-6-members-were-slaughtered/)


Exactly how are you trying to claim that the 17 SEALs that died on that helicopter are the same ones that took out bin Laden? I hate to break it to you, but you are jumping to conclusions that have no foundation in fact.

You still haven't answered as to who would be a credible sources. Apparently, no one actually involved from either side is considered a credible source to you, so there is no way that you would ever accept the truth.

[Sinfix_15]

Exactly how are you trying to claim that the 17 SEALs that died on that helicopter are the same ones that took out bin Laden? I hate to break it to you, but you are jumping to conclusions that have no foundation in fact.

You still haven't answered as to who would be a credible sources. Apparently, no one actually involved from either side is considered a credible source to you, so there is no way that you would ever accept the truth.

What "truth" am i not accepting?

I'm saying questions are unanswered and the whole truth is not known.

What detail have i commented on that you believe is not a fact?

[Sinfix_15]

249924

Pretty insensative to mock the families of fallen soldiers.

I ask the same questions they do.

[David88vert]

What "truth" am i not accepting?

I'm saying questions are unanswered and the whole truth is not known.

What detail have i commented on that you believe is not a fact?

You refuse to accept that Obama gave the order to the team that killed bin Laden by denying that they killed him. You have absolutely no factual basis to claim that both enemies (both who happen to agree that the SEALs killed bin Laden) are liars. You refuse to accept the statements of people based upon their position of work, their religious beliefs, etc, just because it does not fit your contrived narrative.

You can't say that the truth isn't the truth just because you have questions that you can't answer and you don't know the whole truth.

Since the only link that you have posted at all on anything here was Dollard's site, and then it did not address the original points that I made, what makes you think that he has more accurate information than the soldiers that were there, or bin Laden's own followers? What access to "truth" does he have that the people actually involved in the operation do not?

[Sinfix_15]

You refuse to accept that Obama gave the order to the team that killed bin Laden by denying that they killed him. You have absolutely no factual basis to claim that both enemies (both who happen to agree that the SEALs killed bin Laden) are liars. You refuse to accept the statements of people based upon their position of work, their religious beliefs, etc, just because it does not fit your contrived narrative.

You can't say that the truth isn't the truth just because you have questions that you can't answer and you don't know the whole truth.

Since the only link that you have posted at all on anything here was Dollard's site, and then it did not address the original points that I made, what makes you think that he has more accurate information than the soldiers that were there, or bin Laden's own followers? What access to "truth" does he have that the people actually involved in the operation do not?

I did not deny that OBL is dead or who killed him.

I asked a question that i felt you would have difficulty answering.

I dont deny bin laden is dead or that a seal killed him. Not because of any undisputable evidence, mostly just a gut feeling.

I say again........

I question the deal we made to locate him and the events that followed, including the blackout, burial, and seal ambush.

Im only asking questions, not drawing conclusions.

[Vteckidd]

Pretty insensative to mock the families of fallen soldiers.

I ask the same questions they do.

lol hes dead man. Somehow i doubt you are offended. youre not exactly MR Sensitivity.

[Vteckidd]

I question the deal we made to locate him
What deal


including the blackout, burial, and seal ambush.

Sources


Im only asking questions, not drawing conclusions.

Seems like you have already drawn conclusions.

Numerous GOP people said "Ive seen the death photos, there is no doubt OBL is dead". Why would GOP LIE in the middle of a major election>?

[Sinfix_15]

lol hes dead man. Somehow i doubt you are offended. youre not exactly MR Sensitivity.

I should change my name to Mr Sensitivity.





Im not denying that hes dead. Just noting that something smells foul.

"Obama Murdered My Son": SEAL Team 6 Father Speaks Out | Obama (http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2014/02/obama-murdered-my-son-seal-team-6-father-speaks-out-2460590.html)

[Vteckidd]

Site is suspect, and crazy people gonna crazy.

Lots of govt conspiracies out there, lots of Alex Jones inflammatory shit, stuff i dont pay attention to.

I am pretty confident that if Saxby Chambliss, other ranking GOP members on the SIC and other high ranking Democrats say they saw classified information that is of national security, that proves OBL is dead, I believe them. They have nothing to gain helping each other.

If they released the photos people would claim it was fake, just like Obamas BC. He doesnt release it, people claim its fake and he doesnt have one, he releases it , and its FAKE! IT ISNT THE LONG FORM SO IT ISNT REAL!

We also operate with a little more ............class that the enemy. We got our guy, we killed him, we took no prisoners, and we showed we were better than the opposition. We dont cut peoples heads off and drag them through the street and pull their limbs off and tie them to a car bumper. We killed one of the most EVIL people to roam this earth, and still buried him in his religious customs ways.

[David88vert]

Just to address the ORIGINAL topic a little more.... Obama has:

Ended the War in Iraq: He ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. The last troops left on December 18, 2011.

Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: He ended the restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

Raised Fuel Efficiency Standards: His administration released new fuel efficiency standards in 2011 that will nearly double the fuel economy for cars and trucks by 2025.

And if you care about our veterans:
He increased support for Veterans. With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, he worked with Congress to increase the 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. He also signed a new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.


I think that we can agree that he has done at least one thing.

[David88vert]

Site is suspect, and crazy people gonna crazy.

Lots of govt conspiracies out there, lots of Alex Jones inflammatory shit, stuff i dont pay attention to.

I am pretty confident that if Saxby Chambliss, other ranking GOP members on the SIC and other high ranking Democrats say they saw classified information that is of national security, that proves OBL is dead, I believe them. They have nothing to gain helping each other.

If they released the photos people would claim it was fake, just like Obamas BC. He doesnt release it, people claim its fake and he doesnt have one, he releases it , and its FAKE! IT ISNT THE LONG FORM SO IT ISNT REAL!

We also operate with a little more ............class that the enemy. We got our guy, we killed him, we took no prisoners, and we showed we were better than the opposition. We dont cut peoples heads off and drag them through the street and pull their limbs off and tie them to a car bumper. We killed one of the most EVIL people to roam this earth, and still buried him in his religious customs ways.


OBL is living in Rio with Elvis......

/sarcasm

[Sinfix_15]

OBL is living in Rio with Elvis......

/sarcasm
Tired of repeating myself. You seem fixated on putting words in my mouth.

[Sinfix_15]

How many troops died in the war vs Obama's "ending" of the war?

Asking for a friend

[Vteckidd]

How many troops died in the war vs Obama's "ending" of the war?

Asking for a friend

dont be ambiguous. Im not really sure myself.

I dont think he has done anything of real value personally

[Sinfix_15]

dont be ambiguous. Im not really sure myself.

I dont think he has done anything of real value personally
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgZAzHMCQAEmOyd.jpg

[BanginJimmy]

"Obama Murdered My Son": SEAL Team 6 Father Speaks Out | Obama (http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2014/02/obama-murdered-my-son-seal-team-6-father-speaks-out-2460590.html)


This might as well be Alex Jones site. Al Qaeda has more legitimacy than him and this site combined.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgZAzHMCQAEmOyd.jpg

I can tell you with 100% certainty that this isnt legitimate.

While I was there in Dec. 03 2 soldiers from 10th Mountain Div. were killed. I remember because it was the first time I went to FOB Salerno, they were killed in an RPG attack a few days before Xmas.

[David88vert]

Tired of repeating myself. You seem fixated on putting words in my mouth.


Actually, that one was just some humor - I don't really think that you believe that OBL is alive still. You have been consistent on that statement.

[Vteckidd]

What about Iraq? because most of the deaths were in Iraq, not Afghanistan. This makes sense because bush wanted to clean out Iraq first.

Obama did the opposite

[David88vert]

How many troops died in the war vs Obama's "ending" of the war?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgZAzHMCQAEmOyd.jpg

Are you aware that Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT the same country?

I posted that he ended the war in Irag, and you answered with data on Afghanistan troop fatalities after quoting the word "ending"?

Fact: A total of 4,486 U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq between 2003 and 2012.

Fact: As of February 28, 2014, there have been 2,175 U.S. military deaths in the war in Afghanistan and additional 132 fatalities in the broader Operation Enduring Freedom outside Afghanistan. 1,795 of these deaths inside Afghanistan have been the result of hostile action. In addition there are 1,173 U.S. civilian contractor fatalities.

[AFSil80]

GM Bailout Ends as U.S. Sells Last of (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-09/gm-bailout-ends-as-u-s-sells-last-of-government-motors-.html)

Stocks closed at $40 in that article.

Forbes claimed the stock needed to rise to $53/share to break even. That's a $13 loss per share. And the $26B I was referring to was the money that went straight to the UAW that was never repaid to the tax payer. That's where a large chunk of that 9.7% shareholder stake mentioned in the last line is about since that was part of the deal.

Killing off Pontiac was another requirement...but you didn't hear about the jobs lost from that, did ya?

[AFSil80]

And if you care about our veterans:
He increased support for Veterans. With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, he worked with Congress to increase the 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. He also signed a new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.


I think that we can agree that he has done at least one thing.

Increasing the budget and removing bureaucracy are two completely different things. Getting anything done with the VA is an absolute nightmare, and that Department is constantly riddled with scandals, fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayer funds.

In other words, piss poor example to refer to.

[David88vert]

Stocks closed at $40 in that article.

Forbes claimed the stock needed to rise to $53/share to break even. That's a $13 loss per share. And the $26B I was referring to was the money that went straight to the UAW that was never repaid to the tax payer. That's where a large chunk of that 9.7% shareholder stake mentioned in the last line is about since that was part of the deal.

Killing off Pontiac was another requirement...but you didn't hear about the jobs lost from that, did ya?

Overall, the US government did loose a little over $10B of taxpayer money on the bailout of GM. The argument is that over $100B of value would have been lost if GM went under.
Personally, I was against the bailout at the time.

[David88vert]

Increasing the budget and removing bureaucracy are two completely different things. Getting anything done with the VA is an absolute nightmare, and that Department is constantly riddled with scandals, fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayer funds.

In other words, piss poor example to refer to.

I agree on almost all of that, except that the original question was looking for one thing that he as done - it didn't say it had to be 100% perfect. I have a friend who came home from Iraq, couldn't find a job to support his family, and the US paid for him to go to school on the GI Bill. He now has a job, supports his family, and pays his taxes. Would you say that increasing funding for him was a bad thing?

[David88vert]

While I was there in Dec. 03 2 soldiers from 10th Mountain Div. were killed. I remember because it was the first time I went to FOB Salerno, they were killed in an RPG attack a few days before Xmas.

The official US Armed Forces records show only one death in December of 2003, in regards to Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan conflict). The death was not combat-related and did not even happen in Afghanistan.
Army Sgt. Theodore L. Perreault (http://projects.militarytimes.com/valor/army-sgt-theodore-l-perreault/262969)

Army Sgt. Theodore L. Perreault of Webster, Mass.; assigned to 1st Battalion, 181st Infantry Regiment, Massachusetts National Guard (attached to Joint Task Force Gitmo), Worcester, Mass.; died of a non-combat-related cause on Dec. 23, 2003, at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The 10th Mountain division has a list of all of their fatalities here:
Fort Drum - Fallen Warriors (http://www.drum.army.mil/news/pages/fallenwarriors.aspx)


There were 40 deaths in Dec 2003 related to Operation Iraqi Freedom.

More documents on Military Deaths:
404 - File or directory not found. (http://www.defense.gov/news/casualty.pdf)
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R41084.pdf

[AFSil80]

I agree on almost all of that, except that the original question was looking for one thing that he as done - it didn't say it had to be 100% perfect. I have a friend who came home from Iraq, couldn't find a job to support his family, and the US paid for him to go to school on the GI Bill. He now has a job, supports his family, and pays his taxes. Would you say that increasing funding for him was a bad thing?

You're talking to someone who currently collects GI Bill benefits.

The reason he had to increase the budget for the GI Bill was because more soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen were leaving the service, and began putting in the paperwork to collect their benefits. I first applied for my benefits for the Summer 2009 semester. I didn't receive any of my benefits for another 6 months, and the only reason we got that was because we (Student Veterans of America) had to write our Congressman and get special approval for funding. Luckily our school recognized the issue and didn't cancel our classes, and even so, the money we DID get was an advance, not our actual money. THAT funding didn't even come until Spring 2010, and then we had to pay back the money that was advanced to us

So yeah, I know ALL about the VA, and I'm telling you...the VA is a bunch of crooked individuals that depend on us veterans for a job, yet they make it increasingly difficult to collect what is owed to us according to the contract we signed when we swore an oath to defend this country.

And yet they try to get away with shit like this...

VA record destruction scandal grows | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/28/new-evidence-that-the-department-of-veterans-affairs-deleted-neccessary-medical-requests-from-veterans/)

I'll say it again...this President does not care about fiscal accountability since he does not care about the average American. He would much rather throw money at a situation in a fruitless attempt to solve it. But, I'm glad to see that SOME members of Congress still listen.

Congress Is Getting Tougher on the VA - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304450904579371382766771434)

[Sinfix_15]

Are you aware that Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT the same country?

I posted that he ended the war in Irag, and you answered with data on Afghanistan troop fatalities after quoting the word "ending"?

Fact: A total of 4,486 U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq between 2003 and 2012.

Fact: As of February 28, 2014, there have been 2,175 U.S. military deaths in the war in Afghanistan and additional 132 fatalities in the broader Operation Enduring Freedom outside Afghanistan. 1,795 of these deaths inside Afghanistan have been the result of hostile action. In addition there are 1,173 U.S. civilian contractor fatalities.
The war didnt end, it moved. The middle east is as volatile as ever. This should be noted before patting anyone on the back for "ending" wars. Our country has been at war for most of my life with no end in site. Im not ready to get out the confetti and party hats just yet.

Weve been at war since 2001. Is the world a safer place today than it was when we started?

[AFSil80]

The war didnt end, it moved. The middle east is as volatile as ever. This should be noted before patting anyone on the back for "ending" wars. Our country has been at war for most of my life with no end in site. Im not ready to get out the confetti and party hats just yet.

Weve been at war since 2001. Is the world a safer place today than it was when we started?

Depends on your definition of war, I suppose.

Our soldiers have been being targeted by Islamic militants for the last 30+ years.

[Echonova]

I can name one thing Obama has done right...

























































He was a successful thread topic on Importatlanta!!!!

[AFSil80]

I refuse to spread reputation around before giving it to Echonova again.








































































Nobody else posts enough for me to do that. :(

[David88vert]

The war didnt end, it moved. The middle east is as volatile as ever. This should be noted before patting anyone on the back for "ending" wars. Our country has been at war for most of my life with no end in site. Im not ready to get out the confetti and party hats just yet.

Weve been at war since 2001. Is the world a safer place today than it was when we started?

Are US troops still fighting in Iraq?

Is Iraq the same country, or next to, Afghanistan?

Did anyone ever promise you that the world would be a safer place?

[Vteckidd]

The war didnt end, it moved. The middle east is as volatile as ever. This should be noted before patting anyone on the back for "ending" wars. Our country has been at war for most of my life with no end in site. Im not ready to get out the confetti and party hats just yet.

Weve been at war since 2001. Is the world a safer place today than it was when we started?

thats great, and it has fuck all to do with the statements David said :)

The war in Iraq ended. that is not in dispute

[Echonova]

Donald Rumsfeld says a 'trained ape' would be better than Obama | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589148/Controversy-Donald-Rumsfeld-says-trained-ape-manage-troop-withdrawal-Afghanistan-better-Obama.html)

[Vteckidd]

:crazy: AWESOME

Compare the first sitting black president to a "trained ape" and portray him as inferior......


release the race pimps

249928

Donald Rumsfeld says a 'trained ape' would be better than Obama | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589148/Controversy-Donald-Rumsfeld-says-trained-ape-manage-troop-withdrawal-Afghanistan-better-Obama.html)

[geoff]

Ok, I really do not support this President nor his agenda. But, i do give credit when it is due. One thing the President did that was good...the HARP program for borrowers who are underwater. Under his administration, this program was put in place to help homeowners refinance. How do I know? I sell mortgages, it is my business to know.

[BanginJimmy]

Ok, I really do not support this President nor his agenda. But, i do give credit when it is due. One thing the President did that was good...the HARP program for borrowers who are underwater. Under his administration, this program was put in place to help homeowners refinance. How do I know? I sell mortgages, it is my business to know.

HARP was a decent program, but it didnt actually change anything, it just put on a bandaid. For some, that bandaid was enough to get them through. For others, it was a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

[Sinfix_15]

PTFA S.896


Ill take the prize behind curtain #3.























But for every thing Obama did right, he did 1000 things wrong and hes still a worthless shit bag.

[geoff]

HARP was a decent program, but it didnt actually change anything, it just put on a band aid. For some, that bandaid was enough to get them through. For others, it was a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

I know first hand that HARP saved a lot of people a great deal on their monthly payments. I don't see it as a band aid, it was more like a small reparation to homeowners who despite the economic recession maintained good standing on their mortgages. Think about it, the banks screw a bunch of people over ( specifically with ARMS ) and then the markets crash. Home values plummet therefore putting a lot of people out of the market to refinance. They were stuck in high interest rates and were told by the big banks that there was nothing that could be done due to the home being underwater...nice scheme no? These people were trapped in crazy loans while historically low rates in the 2's & 3's were being sold left and right. Hate the guy and disagree with just about everything that he stands for...but he did save a lot of people from losing their homes. They are actually in the works now for expanding the eligibility of the program for borrowers that had loans not owned by Fannie or Freddie.

[BanginJimmy]

I know first hand that HARP saved a lot of people a great deal on their monthly payments. I don't see it as a band aid, it was more like a small reparation to homeowners who despite the economic recession maintained good standing on their mortgages. Think about it, the banks screw a bunch of people over ( specifically with ARMS ) and then the markets crash. Home values plummet therefore putting a lot of people out of the market to refinance. They were stuck in high interest rates and were told by the big banks that there was nothing that could be done due to the home being underwater...nice scheme no? These people were trapped in crazy loans while historically low rates in the 2's & 3's were being sold left and right.

What part of this was NOT the fault of people buying homes they couldnt actually afford?

Some call it predatory lending, I call it stupid people not reading what they are signing.


I call it a bandaid for the simple fact that nothing was done to prevent it from happening again. ARMs are still out there even though interest rates are already rising. The govt is still pushing banks to write loans for people that wont pay them back, the Fannie and Freddie are buying them up. Until the govt steps in and prevent these types of loans (ARMs, interest only ect) and stops encouraging their use by backing them through the GSE's we are just asking for a fresh round of economic failure.

[AFSil80]

^ Read the book "Greedy Bastards" by Dylan Ratigan. He breaks it down to a very simple explanation to where basically the banks lobbied to Congress to let them insure their own mortgage loans, which removed all incentive of them caring if the mortgage was paid, b.c they would collect no matter what.

And then began the sub-prime mortgage rates that caused that particular bubble.

Oh yeah, and then they got bailed out on top of it.

[BanginJimmy]

^ Read the book "Greedy Bastards" by Dylan Ratigan. He breaks it down to a very simple explanation to where basically the banks lobbied to Congress to let them insure their own mortgage loans, which removed all incentive of them caring if the mortgage was paid, b.c they would collect no matter what.

And then began the sub-prime mortgage rates that caused that particular bubble.

Oh yeah, and then they got bailed out on top of it.

Who cares who lobbied for it in the first place. It caused the bubble, and wrecked havoc on our economy for the next probably decade before it recovers. What matters is that nothing Obama has done has done anything to curb a new round of it.

[AFSil80]

The book is more than just a history lesson.

It offers insight into the corruption that plagues our current political system.

[.blank cd]

Popcorn.gif

[geoff]

What part of this was NOT the fault of people buying homes they couldnt actually afford?

Some call it predatory lending, I call it stupid people not reading what they are signing.


I call it a bandaid for the simple fact that nothing was done to prevent it from happening again. ARMs are still out there even though interest rates are already rising. The govt is still pushing banks to write loans for people that wont pay them back, the Fannie and Freddie are buying them up. Until the govt steps in and prevent these types of loans (ARMs, interest only ect) and stops encouraging their use by backing them through the GSE's we are just asking for a fresh round of economic failure.

I find it odd that I would even debate someone on the "good" that Obama has done lol. That being said, when is the last time you actually applied for a mortgage? I deny people on a daily...yes daily basis. The idea behind an ARM, Interest Only, ect...is not in itself a "bad idea" or "predatory" in any way. If i have a borrower looking to purchase a home but flip it in the next 2-5 years...why would he/she not want an ARM/Interest only loan? Let's call it what it really is...the 90's and 00's were an era of "free money". Sure the lobbyists pushed regulation changes...but EVERYBODY was on board. The people all wanted a piece of the "American Dream" and everybody else wanted a piece of the pie. There was money to be made...great deals of money. I hear the stories from loan officers all the time. They made a killing. The true problem was that they were giving away money...100% financing with 80/20 loans, stated income/assets, ect...Yeah the big banks screwed everyone...and better yet...after the bailout and after the "recovery" the banks still denied people the ability to refinance since there was no equity in the home...enter Obama and the HARP program. No matter which way you try to swing it...it was a good thing he did.

It is not a bandaid. If you are not currently selling mortgages or in the business...then you don't know what you are talking about. Underwriting guidelines are extremely strict and there are MANY in place that are there to avoid another bubble like the last one. I could write books about all the measures put into place to avoid it.

[AnthonyF]

NOT A FUCKING THING!!! 2016 cannot get here any sooner.

[BanginJimmy]

when is the last time you actually applied for a mortgage?

Refied on my house 2 years ago.



I deny people on a daily...yes daily basis. The idea behind an ARM, Interest Only, ect...is not in itself a "bad idea" or "predatory" in any way. If i have a borrower looking to purchase a home but flip it in the next 2-5 years...why would he/she not want an ARM/Interest only loan? Let's call it what it really is...the 90's and 00's were an era of "free money". Sure the lobbyists pushed regulation changes...but EVERYBODY was on board. The people all wanted a piece of the "American Dream" and everybody else wanted a piece of the pie. There was money to be made...great deals of money. I hear the stories from loan officers all the time. They made a killing. The true problem was that they were giving away money...100% financing with 80/20 loans, stated income/assets, ect...Yeah the big banks screwed everyone...and better yet...after the bailout and after the "recovery" the banks still denied people the ability to refinance since there was no equity in the home...enter Obama and the HARP program. No matter which way you try to swing it...it was a good thing he did.

It is not a bandaid. If you are not currently selling mortgages or in the business...then you don't know what you are talking about. Underwriting guidelines are extremely strict and there are MANY in place that are there to avoid another bubble like the last one. I could write books about all the measures put into place to avoid it.

About 4 months ago I did a preapproval and was approved for 330k mortgage from BoA, a little less from Wells Fargo and USAA. Here's the thing though, there is no possible way I could actually pay a 330k mortgage on my measly 75k a year income and still afford things like food and electricity. If thats the idea of tight standards, I guess we should be lucky we got off as easy as we did with foreclosures because banks must have been bending over backwards to top the others approval amount. Maybe I could have gotten 1mil back then.

[.blank cd]

NOT A FUCKING THING!!! 2016 cannot get here any sooner.

Dumbest post in the thread didn't come from Sinfix this time. Fucking shocker.

[Sinfix_15]

NOT A FUCKING THING!!! 2016 cannot get here any sooner.
Careful what you wish for.... 2016 will be here soon and we'll have to listen to blank say if you dont vote for hillary its because youre a chauvinist

[Echonova]

Obama did his "Mission Accomplished" speech today. Not that he'll ever to be held accountable.


7.1 million. Bwhaahhahahahahahaha

[Browning151]

Obama did his "Mission Accomplished" speech today. Not that he'll ever to be held accountable.


7.1 million. Bwhaahhahahahahahaha

Magic. Funny how they couldn't produce numbers for months and then suddenly as the deadline arrives they have up to the minute numbers.

How many of those people have A) actually paid for coverage and B) were previously uninsured, cause that's what 0care was all about right? Helping all those uninsured folk get covered? Oh, and by uninsured I mean actually uninsured not "let's count the people who's plan was cancelled because of 0care and then signed up as people who were uninsured."

[.blank cd]

I'm just pissed of I can't pay more or get dropped altogether because I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks Obama.

Let's vote Obama out in 2016 so we can repeal obummercare and I can pay more again. I'm just tired of having insurance.

[Echonova]

I'm just pissed of I can't pay more or get dropped altogether because I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks Obama.

Let's vote Obama out in 2016 so we can repeal obummercare and I can pay more again. I'm just tired of having insurance.All I know is, insurance is a civil right, not a privilege.

[Echonova]

Also "can't pay more"... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL

I couldn't, yet still had to.


Give it a few more years, you'll catch up with me. I've been on Obamacare for four years

[BanginJimmy]

I'm just pissed of I can't pay more or get dropped altogether because I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks Obama.

Let's vote Obama out in 2016 so we can repeal obummercare and I can pay more again. I'm just tired of having insurance.


So much win in this single post I just dont know where to begin.

1. Insurance to cover a pre-existing condition isnt insurance, its sticking someone else with the bills.

2. Repeal Obamacare? Why bother? Just exempt everyone from it through executive order. No reason to bother Congress with something so trivial.

3. A lot of people really liked their insurance until Obamacare came around. 60y/o women with an hysterectomy really appreciate having access to prenatal care now though.


Lets be real though. Obamacare has several conditions that really needed to be addressed. The problem is that they pretty much ignore most of those points and instead center their arguments on lies. No one in their right mind (even you Blank) EVER thought Obamacare would reduce costs or even slow the rise in costs. How do I know this? because there is absolutely nothing in the bill that would do that.

Instead of focusing on the small details lets look at the big picture, the cost of health insurance to the consumer. I cant think of a single reason Obamacare would bring down the retail cost. I can think of 1 MAJOR reason for the cost of health care to rise though. Insurers want to see profits at a certain level. Because of the floor on the amount spent on actual health care, insurers will not be able to keep their present margins. To keep profits where they want with a smaller margin simply means raising the cost of doing business. For example, insurer currently profits 25% of your $200 premium, or $50. Now they have to lower that amount to 20% of your premium. What makes more sense for a business? Lowering their overall profits, or adjusting prices to get to their target profit? So, instead of paying $200 a month in premiums, insurers are making the exact same amount of money with the lower margin by simply jacking up the rates to $250 a month.

[geoff]

Refied on my house 2 years ago.




About 4 months ago I did a preapproval and was approved for 330k mortgage from BoA, a little less from Wells Fargo and USAA. Here's the thing though, there is no possible way I could actually pay a 330k mortgage on my measly 75k a year income and still afford things like food and electricity. If thats the idea of tight standards, I guess we should be lucky we got off as easy as we did with foreclosures because banks must have been bending over backwards to top the others approval amount. Maybe I could have gotten 1mil back then.

There is no perfect way to make sure the borrowers will pay their mortgages. At some point in time, doesn't the consumer have some sort of responsibility? Underwriting standards allow 31% of gross income to be used as a total housing payment including Principle/Interest/Taxes/Insurance and mortgage insurance.In your case for example, you have $6250 a month of qualifying income, your total payment could not exceed $1937.50 a month. In addition to that, your total monthly debt obligations can not exceed 43% of your total income or $2687.50. That would leave you with $3562.50 left over for other things...of course that is gross income not net.If they had to go based off of net income minus all " living expenses" then no body in America would be a home owner except for the elite. The standards are tight enough ( especially with new QM and ATR regulations )to keep banks from writing bad loans. There is a nice middle ground for the availability of credit and responsible origination.

[Vteckidd]

I'm just pissed of I can't pay more or get dropped altogether because I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks Obama.

Let's vote Obama out in 2016 so we can repeal obummercare and I can pay more again. I'm just tired of having insurance.

2 things patently wrong with your statement, and im sure you know this.

1) Premiums have risen, not fallen, this is not even a debate.

2) People who didnt have insurance, still dont, because they dont need to pay for it. Obama quoted 40 million without insurance, to date, 7 million have "SIGNED UP" which really means they made a login, it doesnt mean they PURCHASED insurance. The real numbers are estimated to be less than 3 million.

3/40 million covered, have continually not met their own imposed quotas, premiums rising.

Welcome to Obamacare. Everything it was designed to do, its not (its not controlling cost and its not increasing access)

[Vteckidd]

So much win in this single post I just dont know where to begin.

1. Insurance to cover a pre-existing condition isnt insurance, its sticking someone else with the bills.

2. Repeal Obamacare? Why bother? Just exempt everyone from it through executive order. No reason to bother Congress with something so trivial.

3. A lot of people really liked their insurance until Obamacare came around. 60y/o women with an hysterectomy really appreciate having access to prenatal care now though.


Lets be real though. Obamacare has several conditions that really needed to be addressed. The problem is that they pretty much ignore most of those points and instead center their arguments on lies. No one in their right mind (even you Blank) EVER thought Obamacare would reduce costs or even slow the rise in costs. How do I know this? because there is absolutely nothing in the bill that would do that.

Instead of focusing on the small details lets look at the big picture, the cost of health insurance to the consumer. I cant think of a single reason Obamacare would bring down the retail cost. I can think of 1 MAJOR reason for the cost of health care to rise though. Insurers want to see profits at a certain level. Because of the floor on the amount spent on actual health care, insurers will not be able to keep their present margins. To keep profits where they want with a smaller margin simply means raising the cost of doing business. For example, insurer currently profits 25% of your $200 premium, or $50. Now they have to lower that amount to 20% of your premium. What makes more sense for a business? Lowering their overall profits, or adjusting prices to get to their target profit? So, instead of paying $200 a month in premiums, insurers are making the exact same amount of money with the lower margin by simply jacking up the rates to $250 a month.

Ive said this for 5 years, healthcare i a FOR PROFIT system. Blank doesnt understand this, the left doesnt understand this, you are making sense, they dont understand that either.

NOPE PREMIUMS ARE FALLING
Premiums rising faster than eight years before Obamacare | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/18/report-premiums-rising-faster-than-eight-years-before-obamacare-combined/)
49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41% - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/)

EVEN FUCKING SEBELIUS IS SAYING IT
Premiums will rise in 2015, says Sebelius | TheHill (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/200567-premiums-will-rise-in-2015-says-obama-health-chief)


Premiums will rise in 2015 under ObamaCare, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said on Wednesday.

“I think premiums are likely to go up, but go up at a smaller pace than what we’ve seen since 2010,” Sebelius said in response to a question from Rep. Erik Paulsen (R-Minn.).

Blank never showed is so called "premiums are down" because its not true, or, hes getting a subsidy because he doesnt make enough money. People that are getting insurance because "they cant afford it" are getting it because of the subsidy which is a dirty word for OTHER PEOPLES TAX MONEY.

They havent solved anything, they have made it worse, the old system was FAR better. If you wanted insurance you got it, you went out and paid for it. and it was CHEAPER.

NOW, you MUST have insruance, it COSTS MORE, and if you cant afford it you get FINED if you dont purchase it

[ISAtlanta300]

there is no possible way I could actually pay a 330k mortgage on my measly 75k a year income and still afford things like food and electricity. .

Then you're doing it wrong. I know someone that lives on $1800 in expenses (mortgage, food, bills etc), and makes barely $2500 a month. He is swinging it and will have his home paid off in 10 years (he did a 15 yr loan). His loan was for 160K btw.... and he makes a measly 30K a year...

[ISAtlanta300]

I'm just pissed of I can't pay more or get dropped altogether because I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks Obama.

Let's vote Obama out in 2016 so we can repeal obummercare and I can pay more again. I'm just tired of having insurance.

Yes, instead let's just force the entire country to pay more for your pre-existing condition while slapping me with shit I don't need, like maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services :rolleyes:

Thanks, Obama!

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2 things patently wrong with your statement, and im sure you know this.

1) Premiums have risen, not fallen, this is not even a debate.Has nothing to do with my statement, and may be true for some people. Not all cases are the same. You don't have to "debate it" if you don't want to. Lol


Welcome to Obamacare. Everything it was designed to do, its not (its not controlling cost and its not increasing access)
Sounds like you, like a lot of others may be unclear on what ACA was designed to do. And it most assuredly has increased access. Thats undebatable.

Guess that makes 0 things patently wrong with my statement.

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Yes, instead let's just force the entire country to pay more for your pre-existing condition while slapping me with shit I don't need, like maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services :rolleyes:

Thanks, Obama!I hear ya man

We had a good thing going with all that free health care. Up until Obama, when someone came into an ER and couldn't afford the care the hospitals were federally mandated to provide to patients by my hero Pres Reagan, it was just miracled into being free. All the work and time the doctors put in to treating people? Free. All the test and diagnostics? No charge....Medications? Supply-side Jesus paid for it.

Does Obama think he is God or something???

[Vteckidd]

Has nothing to do with my statement, and may be true for some people. Not all cases are the same. You don't have to "debate it" if you don't want to. Lol

This is just laughable, you act like if you surveyed 100 people and 1 person says "my premiums lowered" he becomes the poster child for dismissing all other 99 people. its just dumb. Its not even worth arguing.

The facts are pretty clear , i posted several articles, premiums are rising, not lowering. Obama specifcally promised premiums would lower. They arent. Not even close



Sounds like you, like a lot of others may be unclear on what ACA was designed to do. And it most assuredly has increased access. Thats undebatable.

Guess that makes 0 things patently wrong with my statement.

Troll post

6 million cancellations=Increased access, only in a liberals world.

[Vteckidd]

I hear ya man

We had a good thing going with all that free health care. Up until Obama, when someone came into an ER and couldn't afford the care the hospitals were federally mandated to provide to patients by my hero Pres Reagan, it was just miracled into being free. All the work and time the doctors put in to treating people? Free. All the test and diagnostics? No charge....Medications? Supply-side Jesus paid for it.

Does Obama think he is God or something???

Whats changed?

People arent signing up for the ACA like Obama thought, because theres no benefit to do it.

If the ACA is so great, why does OBama keep delaying the mandates for coverage? WE NEED COVERAGE, then delays the mandate lol cant explain that.

[Vteckidd]

Magic. Funny how they couldn't produce numbers for months and then suddenly as the deadline arrives they have up to the minute numbers.

How many of those people have A) actually paid for coverage and B) were previously uninsured, cause that's what 0care was all about right? Helping all those uninsured folk get covered? Oh, and by uninsured I mean actually uninsured not "let's count the people who's plan was cancelled because of 0care and then signed up as people who were uninsured."

Written by the OBAMA LOVING Washington Post

Health policy experts said that the long-term significance of the high enrollment numbers for this first year of insurance will take time to clarify. “There is still a lot of haze around this,” said Jonathan Oberlander, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who studies health-care politics.

Oberlander and others noted that the number of people who have gotten coverage varies significantly by state. In addition, uncertainty lingers about how many people who have signed up have actually begun to pay for their new health plans, how many will continue to pay for them, and how many of the enrollees had no insurance before.

RIGHT LEANING THE BLAZE

As the White House and news headlines celebrate Obamacare “enrollment” hitting the 7 million mark, a secretive study from the RAND Corporation reportedly suggests as few as 858,000 previously insured Americans have actually paid for their new policies.

President Barack Obama announced an “enrollment” total of 7,041,000 on Tuesday during a press conference, heralding it as proof that the Affordable Care Act is successful and here to stay.

The White House has not provided answers to key questions about the numbers, including how many enrollees were previously insured, how many Americans have actually paid their first month’s premium or how many Americans have seen their costs increase.

Then this
White House says 7 MILLION Obamacare enrollments, but study shows 858,000 | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2594309/President-plans-victory-lap-strong-Obamacare-enrollment-Sebelius-faces-unpopular-law-blank-stare-tough-questions-remain-whos-signing-up.html)

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6 million cancellations=Increased access, only in a liberals world.
Comparing "cancellations" to access. Only in a "conservatives" world. Fail post.

Whats changed?

People arent signing up for the ACA like Obama thought, because theres no benefit to do it.

If the ACA is so great, why does OBama keep delaying the mandates for coverage? WE NEED COVERAGE, then delays the mandate lol cant explain that.Tide comes in, tide goes out, can't explain that lol.

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Dumbfuck

Hey everyone! Sinfix just called me a Dumbfuck and is slowly chipping away at my reputation points! Look how smart he is!

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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That was a serious hit to my Internet bravado though.

[Sinfix_15]

Hey everyone! Sinfix just called me a Dumbfuck and is slowly chipping away at my reputation points! Look how smart he is!

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I neg you when you deserve to be negged. Its not rocket science.

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I neg you when you deserve to be negged. Its not rocket science.

You're a real hero. A patriot bro if you will.

[Sinfix_15]

You're a real hero. A patriot bro if you will.

Are we having a moment? We should bro hug or something.

[Vteckidd]

So cancelations= more access now lolol

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So cancelations= more access now lolol

You're still comparing cancellations to access

[Echonova]

Let's pretend Blank's house burned to the ground, thankfully no one was hurt. First Blank called the Obama for a bail-out, but Obama was too busy playing golf to take the call. So Blank dials up Allstate insurance...

"Thank you for calling Allstate Insurance where you are always in good hands"

Blank responds "I need to get fire insurance for my house, it just burned down."

"It... it... it has all ready burned down sir, Did I hear you right?" Customer service asks

"That is correct, why else would I be calling?" Blank says indignantly.

"We can't insure you for damages that have already happened" she timidly says.

"Why not" Blank asks "it's not fair to deny coverage for a preexisting condition".

"Sir" she replies, her voice a little firmer after the realization she's not talking to a rational person "I'm not sure you understand how insurance works"...

[Vteckidd]

You're still comparing cancellations to access

6 million policies cancelled because of ACA , how does that equate to people having MORE ACCESS?

Less people have insurance= more people have insurance? Is that what you are arguing?

EVEN if we took all the "7.1 million signups" which NO ONE believes is even close to being true, you would be 1.1 million + in new customers who are without a doubt, now paying MORE for insurance.

Problem is, its not 7.1 million, its more like 1 million.

The law has had a negative effect

[Vteckidd]

If people have more access, then why is Obama delaying the mandates? why is he hiring LBJ and Magic to push the ACA if its so much better, why arent people RUNNING to sign up?

[Echonova]

Before Obamacare... 43 million uninsured.


After Obamacare... 47 million uninsured.

Let's assume the 7.1 million number is even correct, IT'S THE LAW. YOU HAVE TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE... AND STILL ONLY 7.1 SIGNED UP. SUCCESS BRO! ONLY LESS THAN 50-SOMETHING MILLION TO GO!

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Let's pretend Blank's house burned to the ground, thankfully no one was hurt. First Blank called the Obama for a bail-out, but Obama was too busy playing golf to take the call. So Blank dials up Allstate insurance...

"Thank you for calling Allstate Insurance where you are always in good hands"

Blank responds "I need to get fire insurance for my house, it just burned down."

"It... it... it has all ready burned down sir, Did I hear you right?" Customer service asks

"That is correct, why else would I be calling?" Blank says indignantly.

"We can't insure you for damages that have already happened" she timidly says.

"Why not" Blank asks "it's not fair to deny coverage for a preexisting condition".

"Sir" she replies, her voice a little firmer after the realization she's not talking to a rational person "I'm not sure you understand how insurance works"...

I feel like you don't understand how analogies work.

A person getting insured with a pre-existing condition would be like buying insurance for a house that's in the middle of a flood plain. Your analogy is like buying health insurance after the user is already dead. Death is not a pre-existing condition.

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6 million policies cancelled because...Because they were not compliant with new ACA guidelines. Some of whom were automatically enrolled in compliant plans. Let's keep it honest, shall we.


Less people have insurance= more people have insurance? Is that what you are arguing?More people can get insurance. That's what access means.

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Why is he hiring LBJ and Magic to push the ACA

Awareness.

[Browning151]

More people can get insurance. That's what access means.

People have always been able to get insurance.

If you took away 6 million peoples cars because for some reason they didn't meet some new arbitrary gov't standard and then set up a gov't website to help them buy a new more expensive car with features they don't want do they now have more access to transportation than before?

[BanginJimmy]

Awareness.

4 years or nearly constant headlines and people still don't know about it? Do we really want to extend the lives of those people?



As to your point on access, show me where this increased access is documented. They may have this fancy new medicaid policy, but can they find a doctor to see them? I've seen stories from across the country of people with medicaid policies not being able to find a local doctor that would accept new patients.
Why is it so hard to find a doctor? - Magazine - The Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/10/12/why-hard-find-doctor/AZmAhh8DJowD63cIVF0vPO/story.html)


There is 1 article that points out many of the problems that were made worse by ACA, not better. Let's see if you can find the flaw with one of the proposed fixes.

[Sinfix_15]

4 years or nearly constant headlines and people still don't know about it? Do we really want to extend the lives of those people?



As to your point on access, show me where this increased access is documented. They may have this fancy new medicaid policy, but can they find a doctor to see them? I've seen stories from across the country of people with medicaid policies not being able to find a local doctor that would accept new patients.
Why is it so hard to find a doctor? - Magazine - The Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/10/12/why-hard-find-doctor/AZmAhh8DJowD63cIVF0vPO/story.html)


There is 1 article that points out many of the problems that were made worse by ACA, not better. Let's see if you can find the flaw with one of the proposed fixes.
My disabled mom's previous doctor stopped taking medicaid and told her cash only. He wouldnt even refill her perscription. Now she cant find a dr who will take new patients and hasnt been able to get RA medicine for going on 2 months now. On the days when she cant walk, she has to go to the ER for care.

The funny thing about health insurance is that it doesnt cure anything.... you need a dr for that. Good luck if youre on medicaid

[Vteckidd]

Because they were not compliant with new ACA guidelines. Some of whom were automatically enrolled in compliant plans. Let's keep it honest, shall we.

More people can get insurance. That's what access means.

they could get insurance before. what changed? They have access to more expensive plans now?

7 million / 20/30/40 (no one knows the real number) million aint bad i guess. par for the course

[Vteckidd]

Because they were not compliant with new ACA guidelines. Some of whom were automatically enrolled in compliant plans. Let's keep it honest, shall we.


Not generally true. Yes some plans were absolutely cancelled because they didnt meet the requirements of the ACA like men having to have coverage for prenatal care.

The problem was peoples $200/month plans were cancelled and replaced with $400/month plans.

WOW, such access, much healthcare.

cant afford the new premium? thats ok, cut back on your hours at work and you can get a subsidy.

[Echonova]

I feel like you don't understand how analogies work.

A person getting insured with a pre-existing condition would be like buying insurance for a house that's in the middle of a flood plain. Your analogy is like buying health insurance after the user is already dead. Death is not a pre-existing condition.Indeed, we should just give the elderly and cancer patients a pain pill like Obama said.

After a cancer diagnosis, what are the chances you are going to earn enough in your lifetime to pay back that debt with interest in a meaningful matter. After all, they are just a drain on the money our government borrows.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo


On the upside... If I'm dead I can still vote for the Democrat candidate though

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/10001422_766532786746129_1027182993_n_zps09fd73b7. jpg

[Sinfix_15]

So i watched "face the nation" this morning.....

Apparently Obamacare is a huge success and republicans are fighting to take insurance away from all the people Obama gave insurance to.

Oh... and climate change is the gravest danger to all mankind.

[Echonova]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/1509771_298273300329638_13874638_n_zps6530e83c.jpg

[Vteckidd]

I bet WW2 was cheaper than Healthcare.gov too

[Echonova]

"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends, up there on the sanctuary moon, are walking into a trap, as is your Rebel fleet. It was *I* who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive." - Hillary Clinton, April 2014

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/hillary-clinton-shoe_635x250_1397177914_zps972caf6c.jpg

[BanginJimmy]

Just checking in.


Looks like Sebelius has been informed she will be the scapegoat for all the healthcare.gov issues and has resigned. I'm not surprised, a fuckup of that magnitude required a cabinet level scapegoat to quell the masses.

[Browning151]

Just checking in.


Looks like Sebelius has been informed she will be the scapegoat for all the healthcare.gov issues and has resigned. I'm not surprised, a fuckup of that magnitude required a cabinet level scapegoat to quell the masses.

How many more distraction scapegoats do you think we will see between now and mid terms?

[Sinfix_15]

How many more distraction scapegoats do you think we will see between now and mid terms?
Hopefully Holder.

These people should be going to jail, not resigning.

[BanginJimmy]

How many more distraction scapegoats do you think we will see between now and mid terms?


May see 1 or 2 more mid level execs leave, but we are done with the high level people unless something new comes up.


Hopefully Holder.

These people should be going to jail, not resigning.

What has Sebelius done that was illegal?

[Sinfix_15]

May see 1 or 2 more mid level execs leave, but we are done with the high level people unless something new comes up.



What has Sebelius done that was illegal?
Perjury, obstruction

[Echonova]

When you don't back up Redlines... 60% of the time, they work every-time.


Syria rebels, government report poison gas attack - Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/syria-rebels-government-report-poison-gas-attack-143934868.html)

[Echonova]

Good news is, this regime is holding the true criminals up to the light of justice.


Special-Ed Student Records Bully, Gets Charged With Disorderly Conduct (http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/special-ed-student-recorded-bullies-accused-felony-wiretapping/)

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Good news is, this regime is holding the true criminals up to the light of justice.


Special-Ed Student Records Bully, Gets Charged With Disorderly Conduct (http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/special-ed-student-recorded-bullies-accused-felony-wiretapping/)What does this have to do with "the regime"?

[.blank cd]

Perjury, obstruction

When was Sebilius convicted of perjury or obstruction?

[Sinfix_15]

When was Sebilius convicted of perjury or obstruction?

Never and never will be. "The regime" protects thier own.

[BanginJimmy]

Perjury, obstruction

When?


The closest thing to illegal I've seen from her is making a political speech, which she is barred from doing as a cabinet secretary.

[Echonova]

What does this have to do with "the regime"?As much, if not more than Bush had to do with Katrina.

There is 0 dispute about this.

[Sinfix_15]

When?


The closest thing to illegal I've seen from her is making a political speech, which she is barred from doing as a cabinet secretary.

Lying to congress in an ultimately successful attempt to violate the constitutional rights of every citizen of the united states.


I cant think of a single democrat who doesnt belong in jail. 200 years ago these people would have been hung or shot.....

[Sinfix_15]

If constitutional law was enforced with the same attention to detail as drug or tax law, how many democrats would be roting away in prison?

Obama would get the chair.

[BanginJimmy]

Lying to congress in an ultimately successful attempt to violate the constitutional rights of every citizen of the united states.

What lies would these be?





I cant think of a single democrat who doesnt belong in jail. 200 years ago these people would have been hung or shot.....

200 years ago the GOP, and libertarians would be shot also. Then again, most of the US would also be starved to death so there are some positive aspects of that theory.

[BanginJimmy]

If constitutional law was enforced with the same attention to detail as drug or tax law, how many democrats would be roting away in prison?

Obama would get the chair.

The same number as the GOP, none.

[Sinfix_15]

What lies would these be?






200 years ago the GOP, and libertarians would be shot also. Then again, most of the US would also be starved to death so there are some positive aspects of that theory.

The founders were libertarians.


And why would people starve to death without politicians??

This is the easiest place on the planet to survive. If you starve in the streets here, maybe you deserve to.

It saddens me that someone as intelligent as you buys into this idea that the world cant function without government rule.

[Sinfix_15]

The same number as the GOP, none.

GOP needs to go too. Listening to Mccain talk makes me want to puke.