Change My View

[.blank cd]

Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

Today's topic:

Gun registries are not a bad thing.

[Echonova]

Troll thread.


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/out_zps6686e19d.gif

[David88vert]

Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

Today's topic:

Gun registries are not a bad thing.

You have already shown repeatedly that you do not change your views even when a preponderance of evidence is presented factually.
Of course, you are free to believe whatever you wish, even if it is a viewpoint that is completely detached from reality.

You asked specifically about gun registries; however, like almost all topics, you can find positive and negative arguments concerning them. This makes drawing a conclusion based upon different facts completely up to the mindset that the individual has, and generally, the individual will draw a conclusion that his initial thoughts were correct. The real litmus test is how they affect the everyday life of the average citizen. Does having gun registries make the average citizen safer? If we look at the crime statistics in DC and Chicago, it would appear that going as far as bans do not have the desired effect of making the average citizen safer.

If you really want to investigate this subject, perhaps you should start by reading the work of Gary Kleck. If you are just trolling, you won't bother to.

[.blank cd]

Does having gun registries make the average citizen safer? If we look at the crime statistics in DC and Chicago, it would appear that going as far as bans do not have the desired effect of making the average citizen safer.

If you really want to investigate this subject, perhaps you should start by reading the work of Gary Kleck. If you are just trolling, you won't bother to.

Not trolling. And my views are very much open to change, it's just finding factual evidence around here is rare and it's even more rare that it's compelling. If I already know 1+1=2, you're not gonna convince me that it's 3. Maybe that's why you think my views are unwavering. Before I went to school I used to think the same thing as the typical sentiments around here. Especially as far as economics goes.

If a registry doesn't directly affect my safety, does that mean their shouldn't be one?

[David88vert]

Not trolling. And my views are very much open to change, it's just finding factual evidence around here is rare and it's even more rare that it's compelling. If I already know 1+1=2, you're not gonna convince me that it's 3. Maybe that's why you think my views are unwavering. Before I went to school I used to think the same thing as the typical sentiments around here. Especially as far as economics goes.

If a registry doesn't directly affect my safety, does that mean their shouldn't be one?

I've given you facts and evidence plenty of times. You just refused to acknowledge the truth. That's your choice of course.

What you don't seem to realize that you think that you are adding 1+1 to equal 2, but in reality you are adding 0+1 and getting 2. Since you don't understand that the two values being added are not equal, you never realize that your conclusion is incorrect.

A better question is: Should law abiding citizens be forced to give up their privacy or rights for a program that has not shown any positive results?

[Elbow]

This is still going on?

[David88vert]

This is still going on?

Not really. Going any farther will be a waste of time.

[Vteckidd]

Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

Today's topic:

Gun registries are not a bad thing.

no need, I dont think gun registering is bad at all. Guns should be treated like Titles to a car, everytime you sell it , you should be required to register that "car" (GUN) in your name.

I dont buy the "the govt is coming to take my arms" scare propaganda that a lot of people buy into. Its absolutely asinine to think that a person can walk into a store in GA, buy a gun, willingly submit to a background check to the Federal govt, pay for the weapon, walk out, and if you attempt to sell the gun to someone off the street without the SAME requirements, all of the sudden its "INFRINGING MY RIGHTS BRO".

Gun advocates think that there is some separation of between used and new that 1 is ok to treat 1 way, and the other completely different.

David and Sin save your breath, not trying to argue, we have been over this time and time again. I respect your opinions and views. Just putting this thread to bed

[Sinfix_15]

no need, I dont think gun registering is bad at all. Guns should be treated like Titles to a car, everytime you sell it , you should be required to register that "car" (GUN) in your name.

I dont buy the "the govt is coming to take my arms" scare propaganda that a lot of people buy into. Its absolutely asinine to think that a person can walk into a store in GA, buy a gun, willingly submit to a background check to the Federal govt, pay for the weapon, walk out, and if you attempt to sell the gun to someone off the street without the SAME requirements, all of the sudden its "INFRINGING MY RIGHTS BRO".

Gun advocates think that there is some separation of between used and new that 1 is ok to treat 1 way, and the other completely different.

David and Sin save your breath, not trying to argue, we have been over this time and time again. I respect your opinions and views. Just putting this thread to bed
im going to save my breath, youre wrong though.

[Elbow]

I have to agree, I don't see why registering a gun is a bad thing.

[Vteckidd]

im going to save my breath, youre wrong though.

opinions my bro, opinions

[.blank cd]

But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

249815

[Sinfix_15]

opinions my bro, opinions

indeed. one based on history and another based on a gut feeling about government morality.

[Sinfix_15]

But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

249815
no you dont. youre content being a pawn.

[Vteckidd]

indeed. one based on history and another based on a gut feeling about government morality.

As i have said before, theres like 500 million guns in circulation in the USA. The govt doesnt have the resources to take them, period. The military would NEVER turn on its own citizens here. NEVER.

just my opiinon. Register them at the state level, fuck federal.

I have news for you, they ALREADY know who owns what, thats in the background check when you buy the gun new

[Vteckidd]

But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

249815

Theres 2 sides to the argument neither of which you can prove works.

UK , Chicago , Detroit, NYC are poster childs for strict gun laws doing FUCK ALL for crime related to guns.

Theres no evidence that proves registering guns will solve any problems, and theres no proof that not registering solves anything.

[Sinfix_15]

As i have said before, theres like 500 million guns in circulation in the USA. The govt doesnt have the resources to take them, period. The military would NEVER turn on its own citizens here. NEVER.

just my opiinon. Register them at the state level, fuck federal.

I have news for you, they ALREADY know who owns what, thats in the background check when you buy the gun new
you got me bro. we should pass the bill so we can find out whats in it.


if we like our gun rights, we can keep them. yes we can!

[Vteckidd]

you got me bro. we should pass the bill so we can find out whats in it.


if we like our gun rights, we can keep them. yes we can!

:lmfao::goodjob:

[Sinfix_15]

so lets assume a gun bill will roll out just as smooth as healthcare law. what happens when the law changes after registration? perhaps a change to what is and isnt allowed?

cali adds new guns to thier prohibited list yearly. they also propose that any gun that doesnt stamp the serial on a shell be prohibited... no biggie right? any change to a law has to go through congress right?

who would enforce these laws though? what department of homeland security is big enough?

i get it, i want my family to be as safe as chicago families, but at what cost?

[Echonova]

Shits and giggles.


http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/6/2/A/%7B62AD9B59-92FB-43A1-8848-F1EFA8042F98%7Dti151.pdf

[BanginJimmy]

This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?

[Echonova]

This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?I'm not sure what you are saying... You mean to tell me that laws only affect the people willing to obey them???



Preposterous.

[Sinfix_15]

This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?
and when something you own becomes prohibited?

you gonna be 1st in line to turn it in?

[Sinfix_15]

if you have a handicap kid are you gonna turn your guns in?

if you go to marriage counselling are you gonna turn your guns in?

if anyone in your household sees a therapist are you gonna turn your guns in?

also jimmy.... you served in the military, turn your guns in, you have ptsd.

have you actually looked at any of these bills????????????????

if you have, please help me understand why you have one ounce of trust in the democrat regime who is proposing them.

[BanginJimmy]

and when something you own becomes prohibited?

you gonna be 1st in line to turn it in?


Precedent for this to happen in federal law?



If you have ever purchased a gun from an FFL, it is registered to the same level I could advocate for. Impossible to enforce for any firearm purchased before the law goes into effect though.

[BanginJimmy]

if you have a handicap kid are you gonna turn your guns in?

if you go to marriage counselling are you gonna turn your guns in?

if anyone in your household sees a therapist are you gonna turn your guns in?

also jimmy.... you served in the military, turn your guns in, you have ptsd.

have you actually looked at any of these bills????????????????

if you have, please help me understand why you have one ounce of trust in the democrat regime who is proposing them.


I dont remember seeing any bill that matched what I was saying and didnt expand on it. Could you point that one out for me please. I'm pretty sure I would actively support it.


Oh and I have just as little faith in someone with an R next to their name. Have you seen that obnoxious BS they passed in AZ? Leave it to the GOP to hand over a political gift just as campaign season is starting.

[Sinfix_15]

I dont remember seeing any bill that matched what I was saying and didnt expand on it. Could you point that one out for me please. I'm pretty sure I would actively support it.
j

Oh and I have just as little faith in someone with an R next to their name. Have you seen that obnoxious BS they passed in AZ? Leave it to the GOP to hand over a political gift just as campaign season is starting.


republicans arent the answer. theyre more than happy surrendering to democrats as long as the two party "choice" remains.

theyve spent more time attacking themselves than they have democrats, even though these are the most vile and corrupt dems that washington has ever seen.

back on topic... i posted the gun bill the same day it touched paper. please tell me that youre not delusional enough to believe a "clean" registration only bill exists.

[Sinfix_15]

Precedent for this to happen in federal law?



If you have ever purchased a gun from an FFL, it is registered to the same level I could advocate for. Impossible to enforce for any firearm purchased before the law goes into effect though.
impossible to enforce? explain.

[.blank cd]

How did we get from registries to turning guns in? I did to say anything about that

[Vteckidd]

How did we get from registries to turning guns in? I did to say anything about that

to some people its the same thing, which is why I hate this topic.

Its impossible for people with Sinfixs position to separate the 2. In their minds, registration is the same as grabbing guns. They are not comfortable with registering guns because they feel that is 1 step towards seizure and breaking the 2nd amendment.

I dont feel that way, because I dont believe the govt will ever have that power. If they told the military to go door to door to pick up AR15s, does anyone actually think the high school educated soldier is going to say "ok, no problem, BRB"

no. Not in my opinion

[Vteckidd]

Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?

I used to run their Facebook and i knew the owners. I also used to do all their accounting/books. Without giving away too much information , Ill just say that the Feds know who are buying guns, more specifically the 4473s and who is filling them out. Even more specifically its the ATF.

We would be routinely audited and it would go back IIRC 5-7 years in some cases. The auditors could ask for a specific gun sold from X years ago and ask to see the receipt , the paperwork filled out, etc.

The BUSINESSES have to keep them on record for a long time (I think its 10 years) , the Feds cannot keep any list that im aware of.

So if it came down to it, if they passed a law tomorrow federally banning all AR15s and make it retroactive, AA could refuse to give up the records of people who purchased AR15s or have a mysterious "fire" and rid themselves of all their records to protect the citizens.

Thats why I think they should keep the record keeping at the state level, not federal. Let states police their own rules

[Sinfix_15]

to some people its the same thing, which is why I hate this topic.

Its impossible for people with Sinfixs position to separate the 2. In their minds, registration is the same as grabbing guns. They are not comfortable with registering guns because they feel that is 1 step towards seizure and breaking the 2nd amendment.

I dont feel that way, because I dont believe the govt will ever have that power. If they told the military to go door to door to pick up AR15s, does anyone actually think the high school educated soldier is going to say "ok, no problem, BRB"

no. Not in my opinion

trusting the government is like playing "just the tip" with a registered sex offender.

it wont be a soldier.... it will be the DHS. the people goibg door to door will be happy to have a job. DHS here is hiring ppl straight off the street for $20/hr

[Vteckidd]

Do you honestly believe a govt DHS worker will be able to take Johnny Rednecks 25 AR15s from his house?

There would be a civil war LONG before we got to that point

[Sinfix_15]

Do you honestly believe a govt DHS worker will be able to take Johnny Rednecks 25 AR15s from his house?

There would be a civil war LONG before we got to that point

whether you believe they will or not, theyre trainibg and preparing for it. "test runs" have already happened.

what do you think theyre gonna do with a registry? just put it in a filing cabnet? its a tool...... so they know where the "rednecks with 25 ar15s" are.

[Vteckidd]

whether you believe they will or not, theyre trainibg and preparing for it. "test runs" have already happened.
Training for possible terrorist attacks is not training for govt takeover /coup/communism type stuff we are talking about.


what do you think theyre gonna do with a registry? just put it in a filing cabnet? its a tool...... so they know where the "rednecks with 25 ar15s" are.

THEY ALREADY KNOW. you dont think hes already on a watch list ? A militia list?

Yes, i think they will use it as a tool when someone gets murdered to trace who last owned the weapon. You would remove the grey market and make it black market. Illegal weapons would be out there, but the grey market would dissappear.

[Sinfix_15]

its not gonna happen next thursday. its gonna be the common core generation, someone like blank's kids... raised on propaganda. Someone who believes the NRA is the KKK and the tea party is the new confederacy... at the current rate of growth, what will the DHS look like in 10-15 years?

the campaign to demonize gun owners has already started.the "war on terror" will never end, it will just change targets. have you listened to any of the UN hearings where they say gun rights in America are a weapon of mass destruction and that the world wont know peace as long as citizens are armed? then someone like John Kerry all but kisses thier feet and promises that him and Obama are doing the best they can.

the ability to defend ourselves cant be jeopardized by your faith in government.

[Sinfix_15]

Training for possible terrorist attacks is not training for govt takeover /coup/communism type stuff we are talking about.



THEY ALREADY KNOW. you dont think hes already on a watch list ? A militia list?

Yes, i think they will use it as a tool when someone gets murdered to trace who last owned the weapon. You would remove the grey market and make it black market. Illegal weapons would be out there, but the grey market would dissappear.
in thier training exercize, who are the "terrorists"?

[Vteckidd]

I just dont share your point of view thats all.

I dont believe the US Govt will ever be that powerful over its citizens.

[Sinfix_15]

I just dont share your point of view thats all.

I dont believe the US Govt will ever be that powerful over its citizens.

your disbelief enables them. i hope youre right. what if youre wrong?

[Vteckidd]

your disbelief enables them. i hope youre right. what if youre wrong?

what if youre wrong?

Look we already know what happens in Chicago and NY. It doesnt stop anything.

[Sinfix_15]

what if youre wrong?

Look we already know what happens in Chicago and NY. It doesnt stop anything.

if im wrong we carry on the same way we have for over 200 years... crime rates continue to steadily drop the same way they currently are....

and rednecks like me can continue being paranoid from the safety of our trailer park bunkers. right?

now what if youre wrong? any going back from that mistake?

[Sinfix_15]

i shouldnt be in this conversation anyways.

i dont own any guns, i lost them in an avalanch while hunting snowshoe rabbits.

[Vteckidd]

if im wrong we carry on the same way we have for over 200 years... crime rates continue to steadily drop the same way they currently are....

and rednecks like me can continue being paranoid from the safety of our trailer park bunkers. right?

now what if youre wrong? any going back from that mistake?

never insinuated you were a redneck :P

So our gun laws today are the same as in 1776? We have made NO CHANGES? Cmon you know thats not true.

[Sinfix_15]

never insinuated you were a redneck :P

So our gun laws today are the same as in 1776? We have made NO CHANGES? Cmon you know thats not true.
youre avoiding the question.

[Vteckidd]

Which question, this one?


now what if youre wrong? any going back from that mistake?

If im wrong , and the govt attempts a gun grab, then yes, there is a Civil War and we would fight to figure out if we could come back from that mistake. Again, no military will enforce that rule if it happened.

Answer my question, you made a statement that "the last 200 years nothing changed" when you and I both know that is PATENTLY false. We have stricter laws, tighter regulations , and far more advanced weaponry than the founders ever thought or dreamed of.

[Sinfix_15]

Which question, this one?



If im wrong , and the govt attempts a gun grab, then yes, there is a Civil War and we would fight to figure out if we could come back from that mistake. Again, no military will enforce that rule if it happened.

Answer my question, you made a statement that "the last 200 years nothing changed" when you and I both know that is PATENTLY false. We have stricter laws, tighter regulations , and far more advanced weaponry than the founders ever thought or dreamed of.
false. i didnt say "nothing has changed", though things would be a lot better if nothing had changed. weve got along just fine without registration, crime is dropping and there is no justification for more gun laws.

we had "machine guns" in the 1700s. the founders were more worried about future Obamas than they were about citizens. what part of "the government should fear its people" do you not understand.

so you acknowledge that theres no going back if we do registration, sounds like a good reason to sleep on it. it should be off the table untill at least 2016 when the squater gets evicted.

[Vteckidd]

false. i didnt say "nothing has changed", though things would be a lot better if nothing had changed. weve got along just fine without registration, crime is dropping and there is no justification for more gun laws.


f im wrong we carry on the same way we have for over 200 years

Thats insinuating that nothing has changed for over 200 years.

Crime is dropping where? And what are you comparing it too? I mean lynchings are down, should be not pass anymore Civil Rights acts?


we had "machine guns" in the 1700s. the founders were more worried about future Obamas than they were about citizens. what part of "the government should fear its people" do you not understand.


You are FAR MORE intelligent than this . dont patronize me sir. Founders didnt have access to portable carbon frame high velocity large capacity guns during the revolutionary war , hell even the Civil War.

They didnt have access to $150 Hi Point 9mm that can kill. They didnt have 2 times as many guns in circulation as the population. They didnt have a lot of the issues that we deal with today. But, they also didnt say anything about being responsible in ownership.



so you acknowledge that theres no going back if we do registration, sounds like a good reason to sleep on it. it should be off the table untill at least 2016 when the squater gets evicted.

I separate the 2 , to me registration doesnt mean defacto gun removal/grab. It does in your mind. I already stated that on the first page. As long as we share those 2 different visions and beliefs, we have nothing to discuss past that.

I still love you.nohomo

[Sinfix_15]

first machine gun patent was given in 1718. founders gave us access to everything they had access to.

lynchings are down? someone tell Al and Jesse....

cost of a gun matters because of??

every lawful citizen should have access to an affordable firearm.

registration is a means to locate and take guns, theres no disputing this fact. you just believe that theyre only gonna take them from the bad guys.

history proves that the only thing a government does with power is abuse it.

you think handing a gun registry to the IRS, NSA and DHS is in your best interest as a white conservative?

[.blank cd]

first machine gun patent was given in 1718. founders gave us access to everything they had access toYoure right. And in 1719, every citizen could go down to the local guns and ammo store, swipe his or her debit card, pick one up and it's accompanying ammunition, and carry it home strapped to his back.

[Vteckidd]

registration is a means to locate and take guns, theres no disputing this fact.

I disagree. Registration doesnt lead to locate and take. Just like background checks didnt lead to locating and taking guns. It would keep criminals from having a grey market to buy their weapons, it would allow law enforcement to focus on the BLACK MARKET which is what we all care about.




you think handing a gun registry to the IRS, NSA and DHS is in your best interest as a white conservative?

IRS/NSA/DHS , who agreed to it being them to have a gun registry? Why cant we tie it to the local DMV?

You dont think the NSA already knows what you purchased ;)

[Sinfix_15]

pretty much.

[Sinfix_15]

I disagree. Registration doesnt lead to locate and take. Just like background checks didnt lead to locating and taking guns. It would keep criminals from having a grey market to buy their weapons, it would allow law enforcement to focus on the BLACK MARKET which is what we all care about.





IRS/NSA/DHS , who agreed to it being them to have a gun registry? Why cant we tie it to the local DMV?

You dont think the NSA already knows what you purchased ;)


sigh.........

[Sinfix_15]

would you be alarmed if the IRS had access to the gun registry? DHS? DOJ?

if the IRS had access to both your medical records and gun registry would that alarm you?

[.blank cd]

registration is a means to locate and take guns, theres no disputing this fact. you just believe that theyre only gonna take them from the bad guys.

history proves that the only thing a government does with power is abuse it.

This is the kind of answer I was looking for!

Why do you think registration is a means to locate and take?

[Sinfix_15]

This is the kind of answer I was looking for!

Why do you think registration is a means to locate and take?

happens every place that has registration. the bill gives that authority, if you or something you own becomes prohibited. what is and isnt prohibited can change as they see fit.

why do you play stupid? youre aware, you just support it

[Sinfix_15]

LMAO.....theyre doing bait bike on cops.

lot of white folks goin to jail tonight....lolololol


on that note, im out.

[Vteckidd]

would you be alarmed if the IRS had access to the gun registry? DHS? DOJ?

if the IRS had access to both your medical records and gun registry would that alarm you?

Yes, i would be alarmed. Especially considering the recent IRS scandals targeting political opposition.

[Sinfix_15]

Yes, i would be alarmed. Especially considering the recent IRS scandals targeting political opposition.

bingo.

[BanginJimmy]

I am still waiting on a federal precedent for confiscation of weapons that were legally purchased.


Sin, why do you keep tying everything to the feds when no one has said anything about involving the feds or about lists of gun owners? The only thing I have said is requiring an FFL to process any transfers of ownership.

Why can't a registry with weapons currently be enforced, simple, there is no way to prove who owns a particular firearm if it was sold before the reporting requirements went into effect.

[Sinfix_15]

I am still waiting on a federal precedent for confiscation of weapons that were legally purchased.


Sin, why do you keep tying everything to the feds when no one has said anything about involving the feds or about lists of gun owners? The only thing I have said is requiring an FFL to process any transfers of ownership.

Why can't a registry with weapons currently be enforced, simple, there is no way to prove who owns a particular firearm if it was sold before the reporting requirements went into effect.

feds are the ones seeking it. with the previous bill, the IRS would oversee the registration. you think the feds are gonna keep thier hands off that info???

theyve already raided homes and confiscated guns in blue states...... ive posted a dozen examples. where was the SCOTUS to protect those ppl?

DHS violated ppls rights in Boston on national TV.....

nobody cares.... were all fat lazy self absorbed Americans who dont want to be bothered with it.

[Echonova]

Youre right. And in 1719, every citizen could go down to the local guns and ammo store, swipe his or her debit card, pick one up and it's accompanying ammunition, and carry it home strapped to his back.Wrong. Back in the day you actually had to carry around money. Not as convenient as some meaningless digital form I know. But they were backwards back then. Bless their hearts.
This is the kind of answer I was looking for!

Why do you think registration is a means to locate and take?History.

Registration: The Nazi Paradigm - by Stephen P. Halbrook (http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html)


BTW: This guy has a PHD and footnotes. I would expect a minimum of three days of research for you to fact-check everything and point out where he is wrong on a point-by-point basis along with your own footnotes documenting everything and have it subject to a peer review.

[.blank cd]

Wrong. Back in the day you actually had to carry around money. Not as convenient as some meaningless digital form I know. But they were backwards back then. Bless their hearts.Ummmmm.....


/s ?



History.

Registration: The Nazi Paradigm - by Stephen P. Halbrook (http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html)


BTW: This guy has a PHD and footnotes. I would expect a minimum of three days of research for you to fact-check everything and point out where he is wrong on a point-by-point basis along with your own footnotes documenting everything and have it subject to a peer review.
So you believe registry is a means to confiscate because Obama could, in 3 years, position himself as a supreme dictator, organize his primarily white cabinet, institutionally persecute white people, relax all gun laws except for white people, organize 2 paramilitary divisions tasked with policing laws against white people, then confiscate their guns.

Then what? What is the endgame of this scenario? Kill all white people? Melt all the guns down and sell the scrap metal to China?

No need for any more research, Mr. PhD/book salesman did a good bit for me, he just left out a books worth of important details. No big deal. Not like we're trying to be unbiased over here. I'm not satisfied until my pages are dripping with agenda (In this case, American right wing, and a book selling agenda.)



Himmler, head of the Nazi terror police, would become an architect of the Holocaust, which consumed six million Jews. It was self evident that the Jews must be disarmed before the extermination could begin.Ummmmm......


Out of all the acts of armed citizen resisters in the war, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 is difficult to surpass in its heroism. Beginning with just a few handguns, armed Jews put a temporary stop to the deportations to extermination camps, frightened the Nazis out of the ghetto, stood off assaults for days on end, and escaped to the forests to continue the struggle. What if there had been two, three, many Warsaw Ghetto Uprisings?During this battle, 15,000 Jews were slaughtered, another 50,000 were sent to concentration camps. Only 20 Nazis died. If there were 2 or 3 more uprisings, well, we know how to multiply.
To add to this, Germany nearly occupied Russia. Even with their ground and air superiority, the Wehrmacht managed to kill millions of Russia's Red Army, so it's very optimistic to think that untrained Jews, who were poorly armed in the first place, could have made such a significant difference against the German army, the SS and the SA. The Jews also faced state sanctioned non-military violence through Kristallnacht, they only made up 1% of the German population, and Halbrooks own figures claim only 4000 weapons and 200,000 rounds of ammunition were seized. So it is difficult to see how it was "self evident" the Jews had to be disarmed. It would seem the act was in fact more of a symbolic gesture.

History, instead, tells us that something usually precedes gun confiscation, like institutional racial oppression and genocide.

And no need for fact checking. He was on point with the facts. He was just missing most of the rest of them. The sources he cited should also support the information I provided. Checked some of them. Most of it I already knew. But building your opinions on half-truths is just as dishonest as building them on lies.

[Vteckidd]

I don't believe that requiring citizens to follow the same rules required when purchasing a new weapon as when purchasing a used constitutes some form of mass conspiracy to disarm the population. Especially when there's over 500 million arms in circulation to begin with.

[Sinfix_15]

I don't believe that requiring citizens to follow the same rules required when purchasing a new weapon as when purchasing a used constitutes some form of mass conspiracy to disarm the population. Especially when there's over 500 million arms in circulation to begin with.
Good. You believe what they hoped you would. Theyre good pitch men, next theyll have you ordering a slap chop.

The devil is always in the details. Registration is the hook. Its the "rational" suggestion on page 197 of a 3754 page bill. Gun control is a top priority for any anti-American/anti-colonial radical. Theres gun control buried in nearly every piece of legislation. Theres gun control in the healthcare bill even... Sara Palin called it back in 2007.

I dont know how much more obvious it has to be... how can anyone believe that gun control isnt a top priority for democrats, communists, anti-Americans and democrats.

[Sinfix_15]

Ummmmm.....


/s ?



So you believe registry is a means to confiscate because Obama could, in 3 years, position himself as a supreme dictator, organize his primarily white cabinet, institutionally persecute white people, relax all gun laws except for white people, organize 2 paramilitary divisions tasked with policing laws against white people, then confiscate their guns.

Then what? What is the endgame of this scenario? Kill all white people? Melt all the guns down and sell the scrap metal to China?

No need for any more research, Mr. PhD/book salesman did a good bit for me, he just left out a books worth of important details. No big deal. Not like we're trying to be unbiased over here. I'm not satisfied until my pages are dripping with agenda (In this case, American right wing, and a book selling agenda.)

Ummmmm......

During this battle, 15,000 Jews were slaughtered, another 50,000 were sent to concentration camps. Only 20 Nazis died. If there were 2 or 3 more uprisings, well, we know how to multiply.
To add to this, Germany nearly occupied Russia. Even with their ground and air superiority, the Wehrmacht managed to kill millions of Russia's Red Army, so it's very optimistic to think that untrained Jews, who were poorly armed in the first place, could have made such a significant difference against the German army, the SS and the SA. The Jews also faced state sanctioned non-military violence through Kristallnacht, they only made up 1% of the German population, and Halbrooks own figures claim only 4000 weapons and 200,000 rounds of ammunition were seized. So it is difficult to see how it was "self evident" the Jews had to be disarmed. It would seem the act was in fact more of a symbolic gesture.

History, instead, tells us that something usually precedes gun confiscation, like institutional racial oppression and genocide.

And no need for fact checking. He was on point with the facts. He was just missing most of the rest of them. The sources he cited should also support the information I provided. Checked some of them. Most of it I already knew. But building your opinions on half-truths is just as dishonest as building them on lies.

So youre dismissing Obama's dreams of his father based on him not having enough time to see it completed? Hes laid the frame work for racial oppression and cracked the door open for those from the middle east who would seek genocide.

Hes doing exactly what your bible said he should do. He wont finish the job in 3 years.... no "community organizer" could, but hes laid a solid framework of propaganda for the next radical on deck and done possibly unrepairable damage to US currency... again, all mentioned in your bible.

[Vteckidd]

Good. You believe what they hoped you would. Theyre good pitch men, next theyll have you ordering a slap chop.

The devil is always in the details. Registration is the hook. Its the "rational" suggestion on page 197 of a 3754 page bill. Gun control is a top priority for any anti-American/anti-colonial radical. Theres gun control buried in nearly every piece of legislation. Theres gun control in the healthcare bill even... Sara Palin called it back in 2007.

I dont know how much more obvious it has to be... how can anyone believe that gun control isnt a top priority for democrats, communists, anti-Americans and democrats.

you keep referencing an old bill, not a bill i would support.

So, until theres legislation we can actually debate, its kind of a moot point.

I would support a bill that would treat guns the same way as we treat car registration. Require an FFL to transfer ownership so guns arent being sold to Felons and Mentally unstable people. Use the same rules as used gun sales , as we ALREADY USE FOR NEW GUN SALES.

Until I see an honest open debate between lawmakers on this issue, there isnt much here to scrutinize. If a bill came out saying the IRS would oversee the registration, i would not be in favor of it. If they said the ATF would be policing it, i would support it, because THEY ALREADY POLICE NEW GUN SALES.

[Vteckidd]

Good. You believe what they hoped you would. Theyre good pitch men, next theyll have you ordering a slap chop.

:gay:

I worked in the industry sir, I know vastly more about the details than you do. They ALREADY seek out people with Muslim Names who purchase firearms, they already request information from businesses behind the scenes post gun sale.

Let me say it again, I do not support any legislation that is currently been put forward. I am open to treating weapons as needing mandatory FFL transfer regardless of POS.

[Sinfix_15]

you keep referencing an old bill, not a bill i would support.

So, until theres legislation we can actually debate, its kind of a moot point.

I would support a bill that would treat guns the same way as we treat car registration. Require an FFL to transfer ownership so guns arent being sold to Felons and Mentally unstable people. Use the same rules as used gun sales , as we ALREADY USE FOR NEW GUN SALES.

Until I see an honest open debate between lawmakers on this issue, there isnt much here to scrutinize. If a bill came out saying the IRS would oversee the registration, i would not be in favor of it. If they said the ATF would be policing it, i would support it, because THEY ALREADY POLICE NEW GUN SALES.


Lets pretend that obamacare is a myspace account, sinces thats a good indicator of how secure your information is. On this "obamacare myspace" his top 5 friends are the IRS, DHS, DOJ, NSA and muslim brotherhood. When obamaspace needs to know if a friend needs help, he PMs the IRS to get gossip on finacial records. When obamaspace thinks one of his followers has a mental problem he contacts the DHS. If the NSA gets wind of some juicy gossip, he tells the IRS who then "checks" the medical records for mental illness.

A gun control bill has already been passed. Its called the affordable healthcare act. Its missing one component that you want to offer them.

You said the IRS being envolved would make you nervous. They are. Be nervous.

[Sinfix_15]

:gay:

I worked in the industry sir, I know vastly more about the details than you do. They ALREADY seek out people with Muslim Names who purchase firearms, they already request information from businesses behind the scenes post gun sale.

Let me say it again, I do not support any legislation that is currently been put forward. I am open to treating weapons as needing mandatory FFL transfer regardless of POS.

Heirlooms is one of thier focuses. Specifically prohibited in the last bill.

Ive touched 200 or so guns in my lifetime, about 7 of them were handed to me by someone in the "industry".

I support the grey market.... black market.. green market or any other market.

Prohibition isnt my cup of tea.

[Vteckidd]

Lets pretend that obamacare is a myspace account, sinces thats a good indicator of how secure your information is. On this "obamacare myspace" his top 5 friends are the IRS, DHS, DOJ, NSA and muslim brotherhood. When obamaspace needs to know if a friend needs help, he PMs the IRS to get gossip on finacial records. When obamaspace thinks one of his followers has a mental problem he contacts the DHS. If the NSA gets wind of some juicy gossip, he tells the IRS who then "checks" the medical records for mental illness.

A gun control bill has already been passed. Its called the affordable healthcare act. Its missing one component that you want to offer them.

You said the IRS being envolved would make you nervous. They are. Be nervous.

:thinking: we are talking about future legislation , completely irrelevant argument, and im not sure why you keep bringing up Obamacare and the ACA. I understand the problems with the ACA, and we arent talking about the govt deeming someone a mental patient and removing their guns from them.

again you KEEP TALKING about removing weapons, no one is talking about that.

Again, I rest my case, as long as you believe that ANY responsible gun registration THAT ALREADY HAPPENS , leads to defacto seizure of said weapons, and that the govt is involved in wanting to remove arms, we will never have a meaningful discussion

[Vteckidd]

Heirlooms is one of thier focuses. Specifically prohibited in the last bill.

Ive touched 200 or so guns in my lifetime, about 7 of them were handed to me by someone in the "industry".

why do you keep talking about PAST BILLS? We are talking about NEW bills, bills that havent even been proposed. You cant argue legislation that hasnt been even introduced yet. Im not sure i would support anything right now, id have to SEE THE PROPOSAL and how far it goes.


I support the grey market.... black market.. green market or any other market.

Prohibition isnt my cup of tea.

I disagree, I dont support the grey market, or the black market. I also dont believe giving people grenade launchers and full auto weapons believing that it will police itself is smart.

I am all for legalizing marijuana , but that doesnt mean im for legalizing all drugs, let everyone do heroin and cocaine at will.

[Sinfix_15]

:thinking: we are talking about future legislation , completely irrelevant argument, and im not sure why you keep bringing up Obamacare and the ACA. I understand the problems with the ACA, and we arent talking about the govt deeming someone a mental patient and removing their guns from them.

again you KEEP TALKING about removing weapons, no one is talking about that.

Again, I rest my case, as long as you believe that ANY responsible gun registration THAT ALREADY HAPPENS , leads to defacto seizure of said weapons, and that the govt is involved in wanting to remove arms, we will never have a meaningful discussion

BELIEVE what you want to BELIEVE, the legislation gives them authority to confiscate, they have confiscated in blue states already for "mental health".

Wonder if the anxiety i claim to have in order to get my weed card is gonna have a DHS knocking on my door.

[Vteckidd]

Forget Obamacare, your feelings about the Govt, etc. Answer me 2 questions:


1) Do you know that when you purchase a new firearm from a dealer, they are required to do a background check, and levels of the STATE and FEDERAL govt know who is buying that weapon? Concealed Carry is the govt KNOWING you have weapons. Do you know that?

2) Why should we have 1 set of rules for NEW weapons, then completely disregard those rules for USED weapons? It makes no sense to me that people say FFL for a new gun purchase is perfectly acceptable, but the SECOND you walk outside the business and want to sell it used, to require the SAME RULES = GUBERMENT COMING TO TAKE MY ARMS, DONT INFRINGE MY RIGHTS BRO, OBAMA IS A NAZI, WE ARE HEADING TOWARD HITLER-ISM! Explain to me why we have 2 sets of rules and the benefit from it

[Vteckidd]

BELIEVE what you want to BELIEVE, the legislation gives them authority to confiscate, they have confiscated in blue states already for "mental health".

Wonder if the anxiety i claim to have in order to get my weed card is gonna have a DHS knocking on my door.

this is why its tought to have any meaningful conversation with you, you go off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy theories and Alex Jones type rhetoric. Calm down, take a Xanax , and chill.

This is a VERY broad issue. I would prob venture to say that Blue States, like NY and Illinois, should look at abolishing all rules on weapons and we wipe the slate clean and start over.

Rule # 1 - Right to bear arms
Rule # 2 - Keep bans on Full Auto/Grenade/Silencers already in effect at Federal Level
Rule # 3 - Issue titles to all new weapons and require FFL to transfer that weapon or face $10,000 fine or 3 years in jail

There.

Do you know that if you have mental health problems they can ALREADY confiscate your weapons? Its not new

[Sinfix_15]

why do you keep talking about PAST BILLS? We are talking about NEW bills, bills that havent even been proposed. You cant argue legislation that hasnt been even introduced yet. Im not sure i would support anything right now, id have to SEE THE PROPOSAL and how far it goes.



I disagree, I dont support the grey market, or the black market. I also dont believe giving people grenade launchers and full auto weapons believing that it will police itself is smart.

I am all for legalizing marijuana , but that doesnt mean im for legalizing all drugs, let everyone do heroin and cocaine at will.
I am.

[Sinfix_15]

this is why its tought to have any meaningful conversation with you, you go off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy theories and Alex Jones type rhetoric. Calm down, take a Xanax , and chill.

This is a VERY broad issue. I would prob venture to say that Blue States, like NY and Illinois, should look at abolishing all rules on weapons and we wipe the slate clean and start over.

Rule # 1 - Right to bear arms
Rule # 2 - Keep bans on Full Auto/Grenade/Silencers already in effect at Federal Level
Rule # 3 - Issue titles to all new weapons and require FFL to transfer that weapon or face $10,000 fine or 3 years in jail

There.

Do you know that if you have mental health problems they can ALREADY confiscate your weapons? Its not new

Fuck that.

Youre talking yourself in circles and at the same time confirming my "conspiracy theory".

They can confiscate for "mental health".

The IRS is part of the group that will decide "mental health".

So, either they can or cant confiscate, make up your mind.

[Sinfix_15]

I will never register a weapon. You ok with making me a criminal without me lifting a finger? I imagine im not alone

[Sinfix_15]

Youre repeating everything im saying.... it just doesnt seem to be flipping the same switch for you.

[Sinfix_15]

Id say the word conspiracy has a higher batting avg than the word racism... but thats just me thinking out loud

[Vteckidd]

Fuck that.

Youre talking yourself in circles and at the same time confirming my "conspiracy theory".

They can confiscate for "mental health".

The IRS is part of the group that will decide "mental health".

So, either they can or cant confiscate, make up your mind.

Show me the bill that has gun registration that has the IRS in charge of deicing mental health, and I will not be in favor of it.

STOP BRINGING UP PAST BILLS, NO ONE IS IN FAVOR OF THEM.

We are talking about future possible bills/legislation

[Vteckidd]

I will never register a weapon. You ok with making me a criminal without me lifting a finger? I imagine im not alone

If meaningful legislation has the publics support and is passed and you refuse to register the NEW weapons (remember civics 101 laws are NOT retroactive) then yes, you should be punished accordingly

[Sinfix_15]

Show me the bill that has gun registration that has the IRS in charge of deicing mental health, and I will not be in favor of it.

STOP BRINGING UP PAST BILLS, NO ONE IS IN FAVOR OF THEM.

We are talking about future possible bills/legislation

Understood. Im not digging back into the previous bill. Its called "the safe communities safe schools act" if you want to look for yourself.

We'll talk about the next bill when it drops, even though gun legislation is a part of nearly every bill from healthcare to tax code.... even environmental. EPA is going after ammo companies now.


Whats wrong with having a silencer? I have one... am i more likely to be a criminal?

Question: what makes a rifle more lethal, a silencer or a scope?

[Echonova]

Question: what makes a rifle more lethal, a silencer or a scope?Neither, if it looks scary than it's the most deadly.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/esuhy6ut_zps3e16ff20.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/ZeraRen/Misc/original.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ZeraRen/media/Misc/original.jpg.html)

[Echonova]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/66147_473782189343704_586539678_n_zpse6bb1687.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

Neither, if it looks scary than it's the most deadly.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/esuhy6ut_zps3e16ff20.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/ZeraRen/Misc/original.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ZeraRen/media/Misc/original.jpg.html)
Youre joking...... but thats 100% correct. Look at ny's gun laws.... pistol grips are illegal.

You see the new legal (for now) ar15?

This shit is a joke. How anyone supports this insane bullshit is beyond me.....

[Vteckidd]

I dont believe people who dont want to go through the CCW permit process should own a Silencer, that is correct

[Sinfix_15]

I dont believe people who dont want to go through the CCW permit process should own a Silencer, that is correct

There should be two requirements for owning a silencer.

1: the desire to have a more quiet gun.
2: the money to pay for it.


You want one? Ill make it for you. Pretty effortless for anyone who has access to a machine shop.

[Vteckidd]

youre going in tangents. We have laws on the books already, i was merely explaining my "ban" comment. Currently, Silencers arent "banned" they just require a tax stamp and application process.

That should stay the same.

We already agree that we differ on this issue , you think everything should be legal, complete drug open market, complete arms open market. I dont share that view.

[Sinfix_15]

youre going in tangents. We have laws on the books already, i was merely explaining my "ban" comment. Currently, Silencers arent "banned" they just require a tax stamp and application process.

That should stay the same.

We already agree that we differ on this issue , you think everything should be legal, complete drug open market, complete arms open market. I dont share that view.

The reason drug cartels have machine guns and mules is because your government spends billions trying to stop them from using the UPS truck. That make you feel safer?

The most dangerous drugs on the street can be found at your local pharmacy.

[Sinfix_15]

Why is cocaine illegal? Weed?

Compare the side effects to birth control or viagra.

[Sinfix_15]

Perception over reality..... just like guns.

[BanginJimmy]

the legislation gives them authority to confiscate,


THERE IS NO LEGISLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Really, what does it take to get it through that thick skull of yours?


Nothing that has been proposed or even talked about in regards to registration is something I would support. I dont even support registration in the literal sense. I support all gun transactions go through an FFL, thats all.

To take it a step further, I would support legislation that requires the reporting of any lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours of discovery.


You talked about blue states confiscating weapons, I am ok with the STATE confiscating weapons from people who purchased them legally, but became ineligible to own a firearm. I would make 2 changes to the law California though. First, guns should be able to be transferred to someone legally allowed to own a firearm via a limited power or attorney. This POA should give the designee authority to sell any weapons and ammo to an FFL. Second, anyone who has their guns confiscated for mental health reasons should be allowed a hearing in which a judge makes a decision based on testimony from doctors.

[BanginJimmy]

There should be two requirements for owning a silencer.

1: the desire to have a more quiet gun.
2: the money to pay for it.


You want one? Ill make it for you. Pretty effortless for anyone who has access to a machine shop.


These are the requirements for one now.

[Sinfix_15]

I like you Jimmy. I admire your faith in the process, but i do not share it.

[Vteckidd]

The reason drug cartels have machine guns and mules is because your government spends billions trying to stop them from using the UPS truck. That make you feel safer?

Tangent. Not at all what i said. Weed grows in the wild, its not going to kill you.

Cocaine does, Im not in favor of legalizing hard drugs that cause people to become insanely addicted and destroy their lives. I do not feel that Marijuana causes the same effects as using cocaine or heroin.


The most dangerous drugs on the street can be found at your local pharmacy.
Require prescriptions and a doctors consent.



YOu just kind of made my argument for me, I believe we trust people like gun store owners to use the FFL system to sell weapons, i just ask for the same common sense policy on used weapons.

You say that in general the population is stupid and easily swayed by opinions, yet you advocate for these "idiots" to arm up and get hooked on smack. Kinda dangerous dont you think?

COMMON SENSE.

Advocating for legalization of weed is one thing, no one is talking about cocaine or crack.

Advocating for responsible gun ownership is on thing, all out warfare and believing in conspiracy theories is another

[Sinfix_15]

O
Tangent. Not at all what i said. Weed grows in the wild, its not going to kill you.

Cocaine does, Im not in favor of legalizing hard drugs that cause people to become insanely addicted and destroy their lives. I do not feel that Marijuana causes the same effects as using cocaine or heroin.


Require prescriptions and a doctors consent.



YOu just kind of made my argument for me, I believe we trust people like gun store owners to use the FFL system to sell weapons, i just ask for the same common sense policy on used weapons.

You say that in general the population is stupid and easily swayed by opinions, yet you advocate for these "idiots" to arm up and get hooked on smack. Kinda dangerous dont you think?

COMMON SENSE.

Advocating for legalization of weed is one thing, no one is talking about cocaine or crack.

Advocating for responsible gun ownership is on thing, all out warfare and believing in conspiracy theories is another
Cocaine grows in the wild too. Locals have been chewing it for 100s of years, animals eat it too. What are the side affects for moderate cocaine use?

Who cares if drug addicts kill themselves??? I dont. How many times have you seen a crackhead rob a store with a full auto assault rifle? They usually rob a waffle house with a power ranger stuffed in a tube sock. If they had an ar15 they would pawn it for crack.

Remember that one time when all them crack heads armed up, organized and enslaved a portion of the population? Oh wait.... government.

COMMON SENSE... you cant save people from themselves. Quit trying..... make the world a better and more entertaining place and maybe kids will quit smoking, drinking, shooting up, sniffing paint.. eating mudhrooms.. ect ect... people even huff from bags of shit to get high...

Why try to save someone from themselves?

The only truth in this world is darwinism. Let it happen.....

Whether you agree with me or not.... its not the federal governments job to enforce mine or your morality.

[Vteckidd]

im not even talking about morality though, im talking about simply FOLLOWING THE SAME SET OF RULES FOR BOTH TYPES OF SALES. THATS IT

[Sinfix_15]

These are the requirements for one now.

Not hardly.

[Sinfix_15]

im not even talking about morality though, im talking about simply FOLLOWING THE SAME SET OF RULES FOR BOTH TYPES OF SALES. THATS IT
Why? One complies because they have to as a condition of operating a business. Why should an individual have to meet this requirement?

Should you have to have a liquor license to mix a pina colada in your kitchen?

[Sinfix_15]

Make sure to get your kitchen health inspected before you make dinner tonight.

Same set of rules for you and mcdonalds.

[Vteckidd]

COMMON SENSE.

Now we are comparing mcdonalds to guns. Brilliant.

Hey if you buy a hamburger from mcdonalds and turn around and try to sell it to someone else, YES health inspectors would come down on you. They dont have the manpower to police it, but its the same as the guy selling 20 cars a year, its illegal, but , they dont have the manpower to police it.

Guns i treat differently than Big Macs, sorry

[Sinfix_15]

On a scale of 1-10 how frustrating is this?

[Sinfix_15]

COMMON SENSE.

Now we are comparing mcdonalds to guns. Brilliant.

Hey if you buy a hamburger from mcdonalds and turn around and try to sell it to someone else, YES health inspectors would come down on you. They dont have the manpower to police it, but its the same as the guy selling 20 cars a year, its illegal, but , they dont have the manpower to police it.

Guns i treat differently than Big Macs, sorry
Bigmacs kill more people than guns.

Priorities my friend.

[Vteckidd]

Why? One complies because they have to as a condition of operating a business. Why should an individual have to meet this requirement?

Should you have to have a liquor license to mix a pina colada in your kitchen?

Cars are required to be registered, new or used, doesnt matter. One is a business, one is a personal sale, but both are required to be registered.

Your analogy is completely wrong.

Business needs a liquor license to SELL alcohol, but a consumer need only be 21. You dont need a liquor license to make a drink you need it to SELL a drink for profit.

[Vteckidd]

On a scale of 1-10 how frustrating is this?

a 0 because I knew this would happen, we know each other too well :)

[Vteckidd]

Bigmacs kill more people than guns.

Priorities my friend.

HA! Maybe the deaths are more COSTLY, but im not trying to STOP deaths via guns, im trying to have people have clear concise ownership so in the event of a crime, law enforcement is able to do their jobs more effectively. Thats it. Im not trying to prevent crime, im trying to catch criminals more efficiently POST crime

[Sinfix_15]

Cars are required to be registered, new or used, doesnt matter. One is a business, one is a personal sale, but both are required to be registered.

Your analogy is completely wrong.

Business needs a liquor license to SELL alcohol, but a consumer need only be 21. You dont need a liquor license to make a drink you need it to SELL a drink for profit.
Not true. You do not have to register a used car unless you intend to use it on a public road.

[Sinfix_15]

HA! Maybe the deaths are more COSTLY, but im not trying to STOP deaths via guns, im trying to have people have clear concise ownership so in the event of a crime, law enforcement is able to do their jobs more effectively. Thats it. Im not trying to prevent crime, im trying to catch criminals more efficiently POST crime
Not my problem. An easy day at work is not a constitutional right.

If police want thier job to be easier, quit and open a blockbuster video.

In the brief "united states experiment" , looser gun laws has reduced crime rates. Irony..

[Vteckidd]

Not true. You do not have to register a used car unless you intend to use it on a public road.

also not true, GA law states any car must be registered regardless of use

Georgia law requires that motor vehicle owners must register their vehicle with the Georgia Department of Driver Services before taking it on the road. Both new and second-hand vehicles must be registered, regardless of whether they are purchased from a dealer or an individual. In addition, new Georgia residents who have registered their vehicle in another state must register their vehicle in Georgia. The initial vehicle registration must be done in person, and registration renewals must be done annually, either in person, online or by mail.

If you are a new resident, you must register your vehicle within 30 days from the date you have established residency in Georgia. For Georgia residents, registration must be carried out within 30 days from the date of purchase.

Youre thinking of insurance, cars dont require insurance unless driven on a public road

[Vteckidd]

Not my problem. An easy day at work is not a constitutional right.

If police want thier job to be easier, quit and open a blockbuster video.

In the brief "united states experiment" , looser gun laws has reduced crime rates. Irony..

So youre in favor of no laws, whatsoever then?

[BanginJimmy]

also not true, GA law states any car must be registered regardless of use


before taking it on the road


A vehicle that is not used on a public roadway does not need to be registered.

[Sinfix_15]

So youre in favor of no laws, whatsoever then?

No laws > too many laws.

Anarchy isnt at the top or bottom of my list.

[Sinfix_15]

also not true, GA law states any car must be registered regardless of use


Youre thinking of insurance, cars dont require insurance unless driven on a public road
False. I can drive my unregistered vehicle on private property....

IE race track, drag strip, hunting land, parks, mud bog, rock climb, unmarked trail, my back yard...


How many tags do you see at the race track?

[Sinfix_15]

Sounds like we found common ground. "Guns should be just like cars." As long as im defending my private property, no need to register. If i ever decide to become a cop and defend public property, ill gladly register the weapon i use to do that.

[Vteckidd]

Does it vary by county?? I've had cats ticketed for not being registered but in my driveway?

[Sinfix_15]

Does it vary by county?? I've had cats ticketed for not being registered but in my driveway?

Cops arent lawyers, their actions often go unquestioned if you yourself dont question them. Think a court is gonna reject a payment?

I would have asked the cop to leave my property.

[BanginJimmy]

Does it vary by county?? I've had cats ticketed for not being registered but in my driveway?

As long as they were in the driveway and not parked on the street they should not have been ticketed.

No, it doesnt vary either, its state law.



Sin, if you actually do favor anarchy and are not just trolling you are dumber than I ever thought. Its obvious you have no clue what lawlessness really is.


The laws we have on the books now are insufficient for todays world. Not in the their number, as we have more than enough laws and they are already far too complex. They are insufficient in their content.

[BanginJimmy]

I would have asked the cop to leave my property.


No you wouldnt.

[Sinfix_15]

No you wouldnt.

Yes i would.

[Sinfix_15]

As long as they were in the driveway and not parked on the street they should not have been ticketed.

No, it doesnt vary either, its state law.



Sin, if you actually do favor anarchy and are not just trolling you are dumber than I ever thought. Its obvious you have no clue what lawlessness really is.


The laws we have on the books now are insufficient for todays world. Not in the their number, as we have more than enough laws and they are already far too complex. They are insufficient in their content.
I feel my answer was pretty straight forward. I dont recall endorsing anarchy.

Ill take anarchy over communism. The rule of law exists without police stations. Humanity isnt something dispensed by your government. Is the law the only thing stopping you from murdering or raping someone?

Humanity created law. An absense of law enforcement is not an absence of law.

Do you feel law abiding citizens are out numbered and out gunned by criminals? If not... what are you scared of?

You know who should fear anarchy the most?

A criminal. Otherwise who would protect them?

[Echonova]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/WriterGuy24/33355-736205.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/WriterGuy24/media/33355-736205.jpg.html)

[BanginJimmy]

I feel my answer was pretty straight forward. I dont recall endorsing anarchy.

Ill take anarchy over communism. The rule of law exists without police stations. Humanity isnt something dispensed by your government. Is the law the only thing stopping you from murdering or raping someone?

Humanity created law. An absense of law enforcement is not an absence of law.

Do you feel law abiding citizens are out numbered and out gunned by criminals? If not... what are you scared of?

You know who should fear anarchy the most?

A criminal. Otherwise who would protect them?


You've watched too much TV if you believe any of this.

You really think the rest of society would keep on like nothing was amiss if police stations and those that uphold the law went away tomorrow?

[Sinfix_15]

You've watched too much TV if you believe any of this.

You really think the rest of society would keep on like nothing was amiss if police stations and those that uphold the law went away tomorrow?
Little self diagnosis on that one, my friend. Maybe its you who feels Bane will take over Gotham if not for the police.

[Sinfix_15]

Law was created by the lawless. Anarchy is nothing more than a reset button, its not a permanent condition.

[BanginJimmy]

Little self diagnosis on that one, my friend. Maybe its you who feels Bane will take over Gotham if not for the police.


Actually, I have been to parts of the world where anarchy reigns supreme, have you? I know exactly what it looks like when survival is the only motivation.




Law was created by the lawless. Anarchy is nothing more than a reset button, its not a permanent condition.

How many thousands of years do you think it look to go from the lawlessness of wandering people of the stone age to the system of laws we have in place now? Anarchy isnt a reset button to play the game again, its the power button before you change the game.

[Sinfix_15]

Actually, I have been to parts of the world where anarchy reigns supreme, have you? I know exactly what it looks like when survival is the only motivation.





How many thousands of years do you think it look to go from the lawlessness of wandering people of the stone age to the system of laws we have in place now? Anarchy isnt a reset button to play the game again, its the power button before you change the game.

What places of the world are these?

Give me an example of a place as culturally advanced as the US, that fell into anarchy for non economic reasons.

Also remember.... i said " no laws > too many laws" im comparing anarchy to an alternative, not promoting it.

Democracy gave us slavery, two world wars, a never ending war on terror at the expense of freedom and banned big gulps... who knows what "lawlessness" would bring.

[Sinfix_15]

What would i do today without laws...... hmmm..

Id probably take off my seatbelt, smoke a plant and go fishin, maybe ride my bike without a helmet....

ANARCHY!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

[BanginJimmy]

What would i do today without laws...... hmmm..

Id probably take off my seatbelt, smoke a plant and go fishin, maybe ride my bike without a helmet....

ANARCHY!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!


more likely you would be doing none of those things as you wouldnt have a bike, or a car, or a helmet. You might be able to get some weed though.

[BanginJimmy]

What places of the world are these?

East Timor and the tribal areas of Asscrackistan to name a couple.



Give me an example of a place as culturally advanced as the US, that fell into anarchy for non economic reasons.

And why do you think the US is so culturally advanced? I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the laws that govern our interactions.



Also remember.... i said " no laws > too many laws" im comparing anarchy to an alternative, not promoting it.

And I said the number of laws has nothing to do with it.


Democracy gave us slavery,

Cultural norms of the time.


two world wars,

I dont remember a vote over whether or not to start a world war. Can you link to it? I remember the US getting involved in WWI after the Germans sunk the Lucentania. I can remember the US getting involved in WWII after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.



a never ending war on terror at the expense of freedom and banned big gulps...

This is politicians, not democracy. Democracy is nothing more than a political theory. The republic we live in today is FAR different than a democracy.



who knows what "lawlessness" would bring.

I think the tribal regions in much of Africa would be a pretty good hint.

[Sinfix_15]

East Timor and the tribal areas of Asscrackistan to name a couple.




And why do you think the US is so culturally advanced? I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the laws that govern our interactions.




And I said the number of laws has nothing to do with it.



Cultural norms of the time.



I dont remember a vote over whether or not to start a world war. Can you link to it? I remember the US getting involved in WWI after the Germans sunk the Lucentania. I can remember the US getting involved in WWII after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.




This is politicians, not democracy. Democracy is nothing more than a political theory. The republic we live in today is FAR different than a democracy.




I think the tribal regions in much of Africa would be a pretty good hint.

Youre missing the chicken vs egg argument. Law was created by the lawless. The "moral superiority" of America is not a result of law or government.

Africa lacks much more than law. Fill Africa with colleges, hospitals, business, markets, homes and arm every peaceful law abiding citizen, then see how they do with an absence of government.

Most of the world's genocide has been organized by governing bodies, whether it be religions or actual governments.

Any conclusion you come to about anarchy in America is speculation and opinion, theres nothing to base it on.

America was founded by the rebelious, defiance might be our oldest tradition.

On a "law scale" of 1-10, 1 being anarchy and 10 being the far left communist view where the government holds your dick for you when you piss..... id say we need to be at a 2-3. Were currently at a 6-7 and democrats want us to reach a 8-9

[Sinfix_15]

If you broke down every single law in America, what % of laws do you think would be vital for a peaceful existence?

[Sinfix_15]

more likely you would be doing none of those things as you wouldnt have a bike, or a car, or a helmet. You might be able to get some weed though.

It would be rough at first.... but after a few robbery attempts, there would probably be plenty of vacancies in my neighborhood.

The law sure is keeping cars and bikes safe now isnt it?

How many hours do spend in jail for stealing a bike?

[Echonova]

If you broke down every single law in America, what % of laws do you think would be vital for a peaceful existence?I'm not sure about laws... But some guy a while back made a list of ten things that would seem to do the trick if everyone obeyed them. But the chances of that happening are about the same as Obama not writing a third autobiography.

[.blank cd]

Cultural norms of the time.



I dont remember a vote over whether or not to start a world war. Can you link to it? I remember the US getting involved in WWI after the Germans sunk the Lucentania. I can remember the US getting involved in WWII after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.




This is politicians, not democracy. Democracy is nothing more than a political theory. The republic we live in today is FAR different than a democracy.

I think he thinks that Democrats (as they are today) were responsible for all those things and not necessarily the idea of democracy. That's probably what he means.

[Sinfix_15]

I think he thinks that Democrats (as they are today) were responsible for all those things and not necessarily the idea of democracy. That's probably what he means.
I dont like either. Democrats past and present or the idea of democracy.

Not sure what i was trying to say anymore. At this point in the day my mind is fa..... more faded than usual..