12 Teenagers rape 2 women in park

[Sinfix_15]

"Police say two women, ages 32 and 24, were reportedly attacked and sexually assaulted by a group of 10 to 12 black male juveniles in Kosciuszko Park at about 6:54 p.m. Thursday. According to police, the suspects, who range in age from 12 to 17-years-old, remain on the loose."Police: 2 Women Gang Raped By Juveniles In Wilmington Park « CBS Philly (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/08/30/police-2-women-gang-raped-by-juveniles-in-wilmington-park/)



How many bullets do you need to defend yourself against 12 attackers?

http://tacticalol.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/glock-drum.jpg

[00CelicaGT]

My wife's XD9 olds 16+1 and I think after here pulling the trigger 3-4 times the rest will scatter like roaches. Most criminal don't want to be met with resistance let alone a gun that's why most will flea when the victim is yeilding a weapon or defends themselves...
People like this deserve to be shot in public maybe even hung that way others will think twice before committing the same crimes, thieves should have both there hands cut off. No reason to put animals like these in jail and have us feed them for the rest of they're life, just shoot them of hang them in public and set an example

[BanginJimmy]

Juveniles under 15 will most likely stay in juvi til they are 18 then be set free. The rest will likely do less than 10 years a piece.

[Sinfix_15]

Juveniles under 15 will most likely stay in juvi til they are 18 then be set free. The rest will likely do less than 10 years a piece.

We really need to change that law.

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We really need to change that law.

Why?

[Sinfix_15]

Why?

Criminals need to be punished. If my 15 year old son committed this crime, i would beat him to death.

[BanginJimmy]

Why?

Honest question. At what age do you believe a minor should be fully culpable for criminal activity? At 13, I believe a minor should be eligible for any punishment up to life with the possibility of parole. I believe any minor criminal should be eligible for parole eventually, no matter their crime. Eligibility does not mean they will be paroled.

[00CelicaGT]

People like this deserve to be shot in public maybe even hung that way others will think twice before committing the same crimes, thieves should have both there hands cut off. No reason to put animals like these in jail and have us feed them for the rest of they're life, just shoot them of hang them in public and set an example

I'll quote myself, this is what needs to happen to people like this... If someone is dumb enough to commit the same crime after witnessing a public hanging or shooting, then they can suffer the same fate. I have a close female friend that I've known since 5th grade that was a victim of rape by multiple people and its something that will really destroy a persons self-esteem, and life in general. It happen when we were in the 10th grade (2003) and she struggles with it everyday, she even contemplated suicide at one point but thankfully she didn't. It's really sad to see something like this happen to a person that was always happy, out going, confident. And just made everyone around her smile and to see that completely change is devastating. if you have never known someone close to you who was a victim of rape, then you will never know how damaging it can be. I show no remorse for these animals and they don't deserve due process not matter what the law states, kill them like roaches and move on no reason to incarcerate them.

[Elbow]

Why?

Seriously?

[WhiteAccord]

Why?

Dude your an idiot, nuff said.

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Seriously?

Was a serious question.



Dude your an idiot, nuff said.

I really don't even want to dignify this asinine comment with a response (for that matter, I don't even know why you'd enter this discussion when you're willingly subjecting yourself to verbal abuse) but for the sake of all the people who refuse to think logically, and have less than two brain cells to rub together, like yourself, I'll clarify my question.

Legal culpability of minors has been established through intense and rigorous study of the psychology of minors, thus, if you have a different idea of how the minor system should operate, hopefully you'll be backing up your appeal with more than just a crybaby response, ESPECIALLY before a full investigation of the situation has been completed.

So with that being said, what about the current system of legal culpability of minors do you believe should be changed, in light of this un-investigated incident, and why?

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And whiteaccord, if any, or, most likely, all of that went over your head, let me know and I'll dumb it down to a 1st grade level comment.

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I show no remorse for these animals and they don't deserve due process not matter what the law states, kill them like roaches and move on no reason to incarcerate them.

This type of shit scares me as there more than a few people who think this kind of stupid shit, that people shouldn't deserve due process. But it's my fault for expecting more than a modicum of intelligence from this subsection. It's completely absent in this post.

And someone let you carry a pistol...fuck me... You make a great case for intelligence testing for CCW permits.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, Sinfix doesn't have the stupidest comment in the thread.

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Honest question. At what age do you believe a minor should be fully culpable for criminal activity? At 13, I believe a minor should be eligible for any punishment up to life with the possibility of parole. I believe any minor criminal should be eligible for parole eventually, no matter their crime. Eligibility does not mean they will be paroled.

We have a legal system designed for people younger than 18 for a reason. I'm not gonna let one yet-to-be-investigated situation change my opinion on our minor system. As far as my opinion on the legal culpability of minors, I do know what whatever my opinion is on the matter, it will be consistent across the board. So before you tell yourself you think 13 year olds should be eligible for life, ask yourself if if they should be able to consent to sex, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, and join the military, because ALL of those things go hand in hand.

[BanginJimmy]

We have a legal system designed for people younger than 18 for a reason. I'm not gonna let one yet-to-be-investigated situation change my opinion on our minor system.

Are you saying that this is an isolated incident? That minors committing crimes, or more specifically sex crimes, is uncommon?




As far as my opinion on the legal culpability of minors, I do know what whatever my opinion is on the matter, it will be consistent across the board.

Is this your way of not answering?



So before you tell yourself you think 13 year olds should be eligible for life, ask yourself if if they should be able to consent to sex, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, and join the military, because ALL of those things go hand in hand.

By those same standards 20y/o's shouldnt be eligible for life, so no, they dont go hand in hand. So what age do you think a person should be fully culpable? What age do you think someone has the mental capacity to understand right and wrong?

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Are you saying that this is an isolated incident? That minors committing crimes, or more specifically sex crimes, is uncommon?What was the outcome of this case?


By those same standards 20y/o's shouldnt be eligible for life, so no, they dont go hand in hand. So what age do you think a person should be fully culpable? What age do you think someone has the mental capacity to understand right and wrong?

Since there isn't a specific age, defined by anyone at all, I'm not gonna pretend like I know the answer, and I'm not gonna pretend like its 13. Lol. And yes, by anyone that's educated on the subject, they do go hand in hand. There's no debate about that, and its not something thats even arguable. I don't know where you pulled the 20 y/o analogy from or how it applies.

[BanginJimmy]

What was the outcome of this case?

What does this have to do with anything?




Since there isn't a specific age, defined by anyone at all, I'm not gonna pretend like I know the answer

There are specific ages, defined by individual states. You finally admit to something you dont know though. Thats progress.



Lol. And yes, by anyone that's educated on the subject, the do go hand in hand. There's no debate about that

As you have already pointed out, you dont know what you are talking about. You should have left it there. Why dont you point out 1 single reliable source that correlates joining the military, smoking, drinking and culpability in criminal activities. When you cant find one, come back and admit you are wrong.


As far as mental development goes, there is well documented proof that a normal human doesnt fully develop their decision making capabilities until somewhere between the age of 22 and 27 with 25 being the average.

Again, this doesnt mean you cant determine right and wrong, just fully developed decision making.

Harvard professor and researcher thinks our moral compass is the result of evolution.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Researchers at Yale say babies as young as 6 months have this basic moral compass.
Psychologists say babies know right from wrong even at six months (http://phys.org/news192693376.html)

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What does this have to do with anything?





There are specific ages, defined by individual states. You finally admit to something you dont know though. Thats progress.




As you have already pointed out, you dont know what you are talking about. You should have left it there. Why dont you point out 1 single reliable source that correlates joining the military, smoking, drinking and culpability in criminal activities. When you cant find one, come back and admit you are wrong.You want me to tell you why we don't let 13yr olds fuck, drink, smoke, join the military, and be tried as adults?

Are you being serious?

And no, my lack of an answer doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.


Harvard professor and researcher thinks our moral compass is the result of evolution.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Researchers at Yale say babies as young as 6 months have this basic moral compass.
Psychologists say babies know right from wrong even at six months (http://phys.org/news192693376.html)

Do you understand the difference between mental culpability and morality? Should I explain to you why we don't let 6 month old babies drink or consent to sex or enter into legally binding contracts?

[BanginJimmy]

You want me to tell you why we don't let 13yr olds fuck, drink, smoke, join the military, and be tried as adults?

Are you being serious?

And no, my lack of an answer doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.



Do you understand the difference between mental culpability and morality? Should I explain to you why we don't let 6 month old babies drink or consent to sex or enter into legally binding contracts?

Another dodge huh?

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LOL. This is how I know you're out of your league on this one. When you start referencing studies to rebut what I say that end up confirming what I say. Here's a little excerpt from the first article


Social animals, he believes, possess the rudiments of a moral system in that they can recognize cheating or deviations from expected behavior. But they generally lack the psychological mechanisms on which the pervasive reciprocity of human society is based, like the ability to remember bad behavior, quantify its costs, recall prior interactions with an individual and punish offenders. “Lions cooperate on the hunt, but there is no punishment for laggards,” Dr. Hauser said.
Good read though. You should read the whole thing next time, and not just part of it.

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Another dodge huh?

Just making sure you know what you're asking. Making sure you know we're talking about one thing, and you're asking for information about a completely different subject.

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Criminals need to be punished. If my 15 year old son committed this crime, i would beat him to death.

I'm sure if you're of this mindset, something like this might not happen in the first place. But I'll ask anyway:

Are you also in favor of abandoning due process at the cost of human civilization?

[Sinfix_15]

I'm sure if you're of this mindset, something like this might not happen in the first place. But I'll ask anyway:

Are you also in favor of abandoning due process at the cost of human civilization?

I am not in favor of abandoning due process. My own personal reaction is just that, my own personal reaction.

My perfect scenario in a situation such as this is that the 12 teenagers are all shot and killed on the spot while attempting to commit this crime. The criminal justice system should always be a 2nd line of defense behind self defense. The society i want is one where everyone is encouraged to defend themselves and their own communities and the fear of being out numbered by an armed society is the number one deterrent of criminal activity.

back to the topic, people are adults before theyre 18. Certain crimes should be treated the same way no matter who commits them. A judge can decide whether or not to show mercy to a younger criminal, but we shouldnt have a completely different set of rules for minors, It's absolutely ridiculous.

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I am not in favor of abandoning due process. My own personal reaction is just that, my own personal reaction.

My perfect scenario in a situation such as this is that the 12 teenagers are all shot and killed on the spot while attempting to commit this crime. The criminal justice system should always be a 2nd line of defense behind self defense. The society i want is one where everyone is encouraged to defend themselves and their own communities and the fear of being out numbered by an armed society is the number one deterrent of criminal activity.

back to the topic, people are adults before theyre 18. Certain crimes should be treated the same way no matter who commits them. A judge can decide whether or not to show mercy to a younger criminal, but we shouldnt have a completely different set of rules for minors, It's absolutely ridiculous.

Fair enough I guess.

But do you understand why it's the way it is?

[Elbow]

There should be no protection for minors.

If you commit a crime like this, you should face the fullest extent of the law. I don't see kids who commit crime ever offering society anything, so why give them a second chance?

[Elbow]

Dude your an idiot, nuff said.

What's my an idiot?

[BanginJimmy]

You want me to tell you why we don't let 13yr olds fuck, drink, smoke, join the military, and be tried as adults?

You can join the military at 16. You can consent to sex anywhere from 14 to 18 depending on the state. Drinking is 21, older than any other instance you have mentioned. Smoking is 18. What does any of this have to do with knowing right from wrong?





Do you understand the difference between mental culpability and morality? Should I explain to you why we don't let 6 month old babies drink or consent to sex or enter into legally binding contracts?

As the articles I quoted point out, a basic sense of right and wrong are believed to be a function of evolution, meaning we all have it. Is it your contention that minors under the age of 18 do not know the difference?


LOL. This is how I know you're out of your league on this one. When you start referencing studies to rebut what I say that end up confirming what I say. Here's a little excerpt from the first article


Good read though. You should read the whole thing next time, and not just part of it.

So lions dont understand the meaning of punishment for laziness. Apparently Americans dont either as we encourage it through gifts.


Just making sure you know what you're asking. Making sure you know we're talking about one thing, and you're asking for information about a completely different subject.

At what age do you believe is reasonable for a kid to know gang rape is wrong?

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There should be no protection for minors.

If you commit a crime like this, you should face the fullest extent of the law. I don't see kids who commit crime ever offering society anything, so why give them a second chance?

So you believe a 12 year old who commits a crime should be equally as culpable as a 32 year old who commits a crime? Is your reasoning that you don't believe that anyone who commits a crime capable of ever contributing to society?

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You can join the military at 16. You can consent to sex anywhere from 14 to 18 depending on the state. Drinking is 21, older than any other instance you have mentioned. Smoking is 18. What does any of this have to do with knowing right from wrong?Morality is a separate concept from these. This separate concept is why we don't let children consent to sex, smoke, drink, enter into legally binding contracts, and be tried as adults


As the articles I quoted point out, a basic sense of right and wrong are believed to be a function of evolution, meaning we all have it. Is it your contention that minors under the age of 18 do not know the difference?We don't punish people based on morality alone.


At what age do you believe is reasonable for a kid to know gang rape is wrong?

I feel, that you're asking me two questions here. At what age do I think a kid knows gang rape is wrong, and at what age do I think it should carry a life sentance.

[Sinfix_15]

Fair enough I guess.

But do you understand why it's the way it is?

Yes, but when the law was made, i doubt they intended for it to shield minors from criminal acts of this degree.




So you believe a 12 year old who commits a crime should be equally as culpable as a 32 year old who commits a crime? Is your reasoning that you don't believe that anyone who commits a crime capable of ever contributing to society?

The judge can decide when and when not to show mercy, the 12 year old does not deserve a 2nd set of rules. Murder, rape and other violent attacks should all be viewed the same.

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Yes, but when the law was made, i doubt they intended for it to shield minors from criminal acts of this degree.Without knowing legal history, I'm gonna say that rape and murder has been happening for quite some time.


The judge can decide when and when not to show mercy, the 12 year old does not deserve a 2nd set of rules. Murder, rape and other violent attacks should all be viewed the same.So how is that different than how it already happens?

[00CelicaGT]

This type of shit scares me as there more than a few people who think this kind of stupid shit, that people shouldn't deserve due process. But it's my fault for expecting more than a modicum of intelligence from this subsection. It's completely absent in this post.

And someone let you carry a pistol...fuck me... You make a great case for intelligence testing for CCW permits.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, Sinfix doesn't have the stupidest comment in the thread.

Well this is my opinion, if you dnt like it that's fine you dnt have to agree. There's a lot of things I dnt agree with and that's life... But let's be real here we know things like this happen everyday and the penalties for these crimes are not severe enough, because most times they get out of jail to only commit these crimes again. We all know that majority of people who are in jail have been in jail more then 5 times. I have 3 sisters, a daughter, a mother, cousins, etc... If you or any other person committed a rape against these people you wouldn't have to worry about the law punishing you. There's a really good movie called Law Abiding Citizen and while he took the law into his own hands and was radical it made a good point about our judicial system. That point being its flawed! Again if you dnt agree that's fine, that's you're right.

And yes the great state of GA and the 2nd amendment allows me to carry a firearm, but unlike most citizens in this country I dnt live in a bubble. There are plenty of low life's out there looking to take advantage of someone to make a quick dollar because they're too lazy to work for what they want. Like I said before most criminals look for the easy target and when met with resistance (a gun to the face or someone brave enough to fight back) most will flea, I'm no vigilante I don't go looking for trouble or trying to be a super hero that's a LEO's job. But if Trouble was to find me or my family We're prepared.

People dnt have to agree with me and my views, and ill never run for any public office to try and implement my views. But I garuntee you if we were to have public shooting and hanging's people would think twice before committing some of these crimes.

[Sinfix_15]

Without knowing legal history, I'm gonna say that rape and murder has been happening for quite some time.

So how is that different than how it already happens?

The legal tape that protects minors should be removed for certain crimes. When 100% of "minors" who commit violent crimes are tried as adults, i will be happy.

I'm sure the number of minors committing violent rape and murder is a less unique now than it was throughout history.

[Elbow]

Yes, I don't believe someone who can rape am individual should have a second chance. Call me close minded but there's something wrong with that person and it will always be there.

If you're 12 years old you know right from wrong and there's no excuse to not at least be handled as an adult.

If you're a kid and you steal from Wal Mart and get caught, that's complete different than committing a violent crime.

[00CelicaGT]

Yes, I don't believe someone who can rape am individual should have a second chance. Call me close minded but there's something wrong with that person and it will always be there.

If you're 12 years old you know right from wrong and there's no excuse to not at least be handled as an adult.

If you're a kid and you steal from Wal Mart and get caught, that's complete different than committing a violent crime.

This I agree with 100%:goodjob:

[ISAtlanta300]

You want me to tell you why we don't let 13yr olds fuck, drink, smoke, join the military, and be tried as adults?

Are you being serious?

"In Germany, At 14 - minors are allowed to consume and possess undistilled (fermented) alcoholic beverages, such as beer and wine, as long as they are in the company of their parents or a legal guardian.
At 16 - minors are allowed to consume and possess undistilled (fermented) alcoholic beverages, such as beer and wine without their parents or a legal guardian.
At 18 - having become adults, people are allowed access to distilled liquor.

The age of consent in Spain is 13, as specified by the Spanish Penal Code, Article 181. However, if deceit is used in gaining the consent of a minor under 16 years an individual can be charged under Article 183(1) upon parental complaint. The ages of consent vary by jurisdiction across Europe. Spain (age 13) has the lowest age limit, while Malta and Turkey are at the highest end (both age 18).

The European Union recommends the smoking age limit to be set at 18. Currently 22 of the 27 states have applied this limit. The limit remains at 16 in Austria, Malta, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg" - source, Wikipedia

Are European Children different than our Children?
And if you believe some US children don't fuck, smoke or drink at 13, then you are veeerryyyy delusional.

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"In Germany, At 14 - minors are allowed to consume and possess undistilled (fermented) alcoholic beverages, such as beer and wine, as long as they are in the company of their parents or a legal guardian.
At 16 - minors are allowed to consume and possess undistilled (fermented) alcoholic beverages, such as beer and wine without their parents or a legal guardian.
At 18 - having become adults, people are allowed access to distilled liquor.

The age of consent in Spain is 13, as specified by the Spanish Penal Code, Article 181. However, if deceit is used in gaining the consent of a minor under 16 years an individual can be charged under Article 183(1) upon parental complaint. The ages of consent vary by jurisdiction across Europe. Spain (age 13) has the lowest age limit, while Malta and Turkey are at the highest end (both age 18).

The European Union recommends the smoking age limit to be set at 18. Currently 22 of the 27 states have applied this limit. The limit remains at 16 in Austria, Malta, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg" - source, WikipediaWhat about any of that refutes what I said?


Are European Children different than our Children?Short answer: yes


And if you believe some US children don't fuck, smoke or drink at 13, then you are veeerryyyy delusional.

Where did I say I believed 13 y/o's didnt do any of that? Could you quote that for me?

[Echonova]

Jesus Fucking Christ. Reading this thread makes me want to eat a bullet.


Why should crimes have different consequences because of age? If I kill someone or a 13yr old kills someone, are they less dead because the 13yr old killed them?


I think justice should be dispensed the same way I handle women. If you're a woman, you can slap me with an open hand all day long. I may get mad, but I ain't beating dat ass down. I'll just restrain you 'till you come to your senses... If you're man enough to hit me with a closed fist... Well then you're man enough to be hit like a man.


Think about it.

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/1231379_635902413142501_456944520_n_zpsb98f548f.jp g

[Sinfix_15]

Jesus Fucking Christ. Reading this thread makes me want to eat a bullet.


Why should crimes have different consequences because of age? If I kill someone or a 13yr old kills someone, are they less dead because the 13yr old killed them?


I think justice should be dispensed the same way I handle women. If you're a woman, you can slap me with an open hand all day long. I may get mad, but I ain't beating dat ass down. I'll just restrain you 'till you come to your senses... If you're man enough to hit me with a closed fist... Well then you're man enough to be hit like a man.


Think about it.

I've dated some violent crazy bitches in my day. I've been punched/kicked ect by girls ive dated and didnt hit them back.

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Jesus Fucking Christ. Reading this thread makes me want to eat a bullet.Me too. Too many people with irrational knee-jerk reactions in here. Sinfix, in a stunning turn of events, with the most rational opinion thus far.



Why should crimes have different consequences because of age? If I kill someone or a 13yr old kills someone, are they less dead because the 13yr old killed them?Luckily, as a consequence of a civilized society, we have trained scientists who have the ability to psycho-analyze the minds of people of all ages. We as a civilized society have determined that generally, younger people, and people who are mentally challenged are less mentally developed, and as a result, we've established a system of justice, based on these results, to deal with these situations.


I think justice should be dispensed the same way I handle women. If you're a woman, you can slap me with an open hand all day long. I may get mad, but I ain't beating dat ass down. I'll just restrain you 'till you come to your senses... If you're man enough to hit me with a closed fist... Well then you're man enough to be hit like a man.


Think about it.Well, you know best what to do with opinions. LOL

[Echonova]

I would prefer to have a conversation with people that have real world knowledge.


On a side note: How's that HID conversion going?

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/305791_238980599490532_1079548302_n_zpsef8faa08.jp g

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On a side note: How's that HID conversion going?very very slow. Lol.

[ISAtlanta300]

Luckily, as a consequence of a civilized society, we have trained scientists who have the ability to psycho-analyze the minds of people of all ages. We as a civilized society have determined that generally, younger people, and people who are mentally challenged are less mentally developed, and as a result, we've established a system of justice, based on these results, to deal with these situations.

There's your problem.

If there is just ONE chance that it is not absolutely, 100% the norm, the laws should change to fit the punishment to the crime, no matter the age.

children learn right from wrong since they are born. "Don't touch that stove. Don't pee in your pants. Don't eat that. Don't bite. Play nice, don't hit your friend". Believe me. A 13 year old is well aware what right and wrong is.

If you're old enough for your dick to get hard to rape someone, you're old enough to be raped in prison too. These weren't kid playing "doctor" and exploring their bodies. These are kids who participated in a gang rape.

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children learn right from wrong since they are born....Believe me. A 13 year old is well aware what right and wrong is.

I believe you, and I appreciate your uninformed point of view and assessment of what happened, even though an investigation hasn't been performed, but like I've said before, there is a very clear difference between knowing right from wrong and fully understanding the consequences of your actions, which 13 year olds are not well aware of.

I personally enjoy living in a civilized society where reason and intelligence are used in law. There are societies who do not use reason and intelligence within their justice system, where its ok to rush to judgements before investigations have been performed, maybe you'd feel happier living in one of those?

[Sinfix_15]

I believe you, and I appreciate your uninformed point of view and assessment of what happened, even though an investigation hasn't been performed, but like I've said before, there is a very clear difference between knowing right from wrong and fully understanding the consequences of your actions, which 13 year olds are not well aware of.

I personally enjoy living in a civilized society where reason and intelligence are used in law. There are societies who do not use reason and intelligence within their justice system, where its ok to rush to judgements before investigations have been performed, maybe you'd feel happier living in one of those?

A society where 12 minors violently gang rape women in a public park is hardly civilized. The reason people are outraged is because we're losing our civilized society to streets that are overran with criminals. A 12 year old who rapes someone should go to prison, so should a 13-14-15-16-17-18 year old. Whats the point of commenting on pending investigations? all comments here are based upon guilt. Are you implying that there is a chance these kids are innocent? maybe they met on underagegangbang.com and when the 12 boys didnt call them back the next day, they claimed rape?

This conversation is not guilty or innocent, it's when/if the "minors" are found guilty, they should be charged as adults.

The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....

[nelson9995]

The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....

Thats my biggest fear. Cops would say the minorx were unarmed therefore its murder.

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Are you implying that there is a chance these kids are innocent? maybe they met on underagegangbang.com and when the 12 boys didnt call them back the next day, they claimed rape?

This conversation is not guilty or innocent, it's when/if the "minors" are found guilty, they should be charged as adults.Im saying that even though they may (or may not) know that rape and murder is morally wrong, they don't have the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions and quantify their costs. It's something that comes with age and there's nothing you can do to legislate that away.


[The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....Could you provide an example of a politician in the last 30 years trying to remove my ability to protect myself from a 12 year old?

[Sinfix_15]

Im saying that even though they may (or may not) know that rape and murder is morally wrong, they don't have the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions and quantify their costs. It's something that comes with age and there's nothing you can do to legislate that away.

I dont care if they understand the consequences or not. My compassion lies with the victims, not the criminals. If a 15 year old kid can attack and gang rape a woman without something triggering in his brain that what he is doing is wrong, i dont care if he understands or not. That person needs to be exterminated the same as a rabid animal.


Could you provide an example of a politician in the last 30 years trying to remove my ability to protect myself from a 12 year old?

http://www.standlikearock.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Obama-and-Holder.jpg

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I dont care if they understand the consequences or not. My compassion lies with the victims, not the criminals. If a 15 year old kid can attack and gang rape a woman without something triggering in his brain that what he is doing is wrong, i dont care if he understands or not. That person needs to be exterminated the same as a rabid animal.So, using this logic, should we also allow kids to smoke, drink, own semi automatic pistols, and enter into legally binding contracts? Why or why not?




http://www.standlikearock.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Obama-and-Holder.jpg

I'm being serious, if they're trying to remove your ability to protect yourself from 12 year olds, there has to be legislation or a bill or something somewhere.

[Sinfix_15]

So, using this logic, should we also allow kids to smoke, drink, own semi automatic pistols, and enter into legally binding contracts? Why or why not?

There's no relation between laws designed to prevent minors from making mistakes and the punishment rendered when/if they commit mistakes. With that said, i think all of the age requirements should be lowered. An 18 year old cant own a gun of his own, but he can take one up in combat to fight for his country. If 18 is the legal age for an adult, why cant 18 year olds drink, smoke, own guns or anything else? if people under 18 have undeveloped brains incapable of making life decisions, then they shouldnt be able to join the military.

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There's no relation between laws designed to prevent minors from making mistakes and the punishment rendered when/if they commit mistakes.

There is very much a relation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what it is.

Should a 12 year old be allowed to legally consume alcohol, smoke, or enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not?

[Sinfix_15]

There is very much a relation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what it is.

Should a 12 year old be allowed to legally consume alcohol, smoke, or enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not?

I understand the reasoning behind those rules, though i do not agree with them.

And no, there is no relation to those laws and the punishments for crimes. If kids understanding the consequences of their actions is the issue, then add a basic "crime and punishment" class to the curriculum. Chapter 1, if you murder someone, you go to jail.

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I understand the reasoning behind those rules, though i do not agree with them.

So what is the reasoning and why don't you agree with it? I'm not interested in if you think there's a relation or not

Should a 12 year old legally be allowed to drink, smoke, and enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not. That's all I wanted to know.

[Sinfix_15]

So what is the reasoning and why don't you agree with it? That's all I wanted to know.

Theyre trying to allow young people to mature before making serious life decisions. I dont agree with the government's role in parenting children and i also dont like the moral/religious origins of some laws. I disagree with some more than others and for different reasons. I've already stated some of the reasons i disagree with the age restrictions.

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Theyre trying to allow young people to mature before making serious life decisions.Now we're going somewhere

So you believe a 12 year old is not mature enough to make those decisions? What is it about that 12y/o that is not mature enough to make that decision?

[Sinfix_15]

Now we're going somewhere

So you believe a 12 year old is not mature enough to make those decisions? What is it about that 12y/o that is not mature enough to make that decision?

It varies based on the situation. This is one reason why the government shouldnt be parenting kids. Also, why are we setting the bench mark at 12? That sensationalizes your argument.

Give me an example scenario and i will suggest a course of action.

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It varies based on the situation. This is one reason why the government shouldnt be parenting kids. Also, why are we setting the bench mark at 12? That sensationalizes your argument.

Give me an example scenario and i will suggest a course of action.

No one is setting a benchmark at or sensationalizing anything. I could have said 9, I could have said 9 months, I could have said 17.5 years. 12-13 seems to be the age in question, so I went with that.

Example 1. 10 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

Example 2. 27 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

What makes these two scenarios different?

[Sinfix_15]

No one is setting a benchmark at or sensationalizing anything. I could have said 9, I could have said 9 months, I could have said 17.5 years. 12-13 seems to be the age in question, so I went with that.

Example 1. 10 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

Example 2. 27 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

What makes these two scenarios different?

Example 1: Yes there should be a law against it. Why? unsupervised, the child could unintentionally do bodily harm. This is also not an example where criminalization is in question. The law is a preventative measure.

Example 2: No. Society dictates that a person this age can make his/her own decisions, even when they do bodily harm. Under those same principles, why is weed illegal? why is speeding illegal? why is not wearing a seat belt illegal? The lack of consistency in laws is rather troubling.

What makes them different? society lets the older person fend for themselves. If only we could extend this to all things................

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Example 1: Yes there should be a law against it. Why? unsupervised, the child could unintentionally do bodily harm. The law is a preventative measure.

Example 2: No. Society dictates that a person this age can make his/her own decisions, even when they do bodily harm.

Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

[Sinfix_15]

Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

The 27 year old has a better understanding of right and wrong than a 10 year.

You're still sensationalizing your argument. Me saying the age restrictions should be lowered is not me saying that a toddler should be able to crawl into a liquor store and buy a bottle of jack and a handgun.

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The 27 year old has a better understanding of right and wrong than a 10 year.Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

[Sinfix_15]

Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

I see it now.... you have shown me the light.... those poor 16-17 year olds dont know any better when they rape and murder people. We should wait a year or two until they understand before we hold them accountable. So what some woman's life has been changed forever or someone died, a minor getting a do-over is much more important.

[Sinfix_15]

He didnt know it was wrong to shoot a baby in the face.... let him go, a year from now he will know right from wrong.

http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Demarquise-Money-ville-Elkins-Young-Kes.jpg

[00CelicaGT]

Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but to me it seems like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes they are both fruits, but they come from completely different origins, and taste is nowhere near the same. A minor drinking, smoking is illeagle but completely different from committing the crime of Rape or murder.

A 12yo may be not as mature or as a 27yo but they both know that the acts of rape or murder are severe crimes, in my opinion should be punishable by death.

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He didnt know it was wrong to shoot a baby in the face.... let him go, a year from now he will know right from wrong.

http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Demarquise-Money-ville-Elkins-Young-Kes.jpg

It's easy to find an exception to the rule, but that's why we err on the side of caution and judge each situation on its own merits. This guy will probably go away for a long time.

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I understand the point you're trying to make, but to me it seems like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes they are both fruits, but they come from completely different origins, and taste is nowhere near the same. A minor drinking, smoking is illeagle but completely different from committing the crime of Rape or murder. Its not so much of a point in trying to make as it is a reason in trying to illustrate. Of course smoking and drinking is different than rape or murder, but the logic is still the same. If you ask a 12 year old and a 27 year old what rape and murder is, you will get two completely different answers. The reason center of the 12 y/o's brain is simply not as developed as the 27 y/o. It's just a physiological fact. This is why we've accepted 18 years as a general standard of mental culpability for smoking and entering into binding contracts. And some would argue 18 is still too young. It will be a very incredibly rare occurrence for someone under 18 to be put to death anymore. If it ever happens...


A 12yo may be not as mature or as a 27yo but they both know that the acts of rape or murder are severe crimes, in my opinion should be punishable by death.

If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

[Sinfix_15]

If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

currently, the legal definition of rape in this scenario would be any sexual contact.

If my 12 year old son slept with a 12 year old girl, i would punish him with extra work activities or restrictions along with educating him on the risks of his actions.

If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

[Elbow]

Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

I'm going to have to say yes, both of them do, just as equally.

A 10 year old may have a harder time judging consequences of say stealing a candy bar, BUT A VIOLENT CRIME? IF YOU'RE TEN YEARS OLD AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHY MURDERING IS BAD, JUST DIE.

[Elbow]

If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

I would hope my son would spend the rest of his life in prison and I would hope the police would take him quickly before his actions cook in my mind and I do something I'd regret.

What would you do? Hope he learned his lesson? LMFAO...

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If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

This sounds like hyperbole for the sake of making a point. All I'm asking for is a smidgen of honesty. Do you literally mean you'd murder your son?


I'm going to have to say yes, both of them do, just as equally.I don't know any competent psychologist, or any rational adult rather, who would agree with you....


A 10 year old may have a harder time judging consequences of say stealing a candy bar, BUT A VIOLENT CRIME? IF YOU'RE TEN YEARS OLD AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHY MURDERING IS BAD, JUST DIE.
...But it seems to me like we're unclear on something. In interest of clarity, what do you think should have happened here?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/25/us/louisiana-boy-kills-grandmother

[00CelicaGT]

Its not so much of a point in trying to make as it is a reason in trying to illustrate. Of course smoking and drinking is different than rape or murder, but the logic is still the same. If you ask a 12 year old and a 27 year old what rape and murder is, you will get two completely different answers. The reason center of the 12 y/o's brain is simply not as developed as the 27 y/o. It's just a physiological fact. This is why we've accepted 18 years as a general standard of mental culpability for smoking and entering into binding contracts. And some would argue 18 is still too young. It will be a very incredibly rare occurrence for someone under 18 to be put to death anymore. If it ever happens...



If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.


currently, the legal definition of rape in this scenario would be any sexual contact.

If my 12 year old son slept with a 12 year old girl, i would punish him with extra work activities or restrictions along with educating him on the risks of his actions.

If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

It would be exactly this, granted I dnt think I could ask the judge to kill him. But if he was convicted of a violent crime rape and the punishment was death I wouldn't argue to reduce it. I dnt have a son but I do have a 2 yo daughter and a wife and while its hard to say exactly I would have to except the punishment and if its death then so be it.

I dnt believe that a 12yo & 27yo are that different. Kids now days kids have so many different media outlets that allow them to be more advanced then when we were 12. From tv shows like Law and order SVU, the news, video games, and the biggest being the internet (YouTube,WorldStarHipHop,google) etc... Kids are far more advanced then 10-15 yrs ago and this means knowing the consequences for there actions, some understanding that if they do wrong the punishment won't be as severe since they are minors.

Kids that are committing these severe crimes are not living in the "nice areas" of this country and are usually hanging out with older kids, which is making them mature faster. Your average kid may not be as mature a these other 12-13yo and therefore you can't really say every child is not as developed as a 27yo. I feel like your talking about the average 12-13yo in all these instance's you mention, but ultimately these are irregular kids committing this violent acts.

Growing up in a very bad neighborhood in Miami I was exposed to thing the average 12-13yo kid is not, and I learned things the average kids didn't and learned that the consequences weren't as severe since I was a minor. Local drug dealers would use minors to hold drugs because the punishment wasn't as severe and they learned this from older kids, they learned that if you get caught with drugs just tell them that your a user and they won't put you in jail but instead will put you in a drug program with probation. These are the things that I feel sinfix is saying that needs to change.

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I dnt believe that a 12yo & 27yo are that different. Even though doctors say they are?

Would you allow your daughter to consent to sex now? When she's 5? When she's 12? When she's 18?

Why or why not?

[Sinfix_15]

This sounds like hyperbole for the sake of making a point. All I'm asking for is a smidgen of honesty. Do you literally mean you'd murder your son?



I cant even comprehend being in this situation. I know i would not want mercy for my son and that he would not be able to live under my roof any longer. Under the right circumstances, i can almost guarantee that i would hurt him severely. I am being honest. I'm not one of those blood is thicker than water, family can do no wrong type of people. I would not forgive these actions. I would beg the judge to give him a life sentence and i would devote any parental energy i had left towards the victim and victim's family.

[Sinfix_15]

Even though doctors say they are?

Would you allow your daughter to consent to sex now? When she's 5? When she's 12? When she's 18?

Why or why not?

Why are you so all or nothing with this topic? We're saying that minors should not be given a pass on murder, rape and violent crime..... not usual mischief...... this isnt about shop lifting, sneaking in some girls window, or stealing your parents car for a joy ride.... we're talking about murder and violent gang rape...... if a 12 year old doesnt know that gang rape is wrong, then they need to be removed from this world.

[00CelicaGT]

Why are you so all or nothing with this topic? We're saying that minors should not be given a pass on murder, rape and violent crime..... not usual mischief...... this isnt about shop lifting, sneaking in some girls window, or stealing your parents car for a joy ride.... we're talking about murder and violent gang rape...... if a 12 year old doesnt know that gang rape is wrong, then they need to be removed from this world.

Just agree to disagree sinfix because he's never going to let it go lol. No matter what he will find some way to make up another question with a question lol.

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Why are you so all or nothing with this topic?

Not all or nothing. Just trying to get an honest answer...

[Sinfix_15]

Not all or nothing. Just trying to get an honest answer...

Rapist and murders need to be removed from this world.... whether theyre related to me or not. That is your answer.

Maybe if everyone shared the same disdain for criminals, there would be a lot less of them.

[Sinfix_15]

Texan who killed man raping his daughter will not face murder charge - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/3/texan-who-killed-man-raping-his-daughter-will-not-/#.UiYewOzjAkU.twitter)

Father stops the rape of his daughter, beats attacker to death. Justice served...

[ISAtlanta300]

Even though doctors say they are?

Would you allow your daughter to consent to sex now? When she's 5? When she's 12? When she's 18?

Why or why not?

What does that have to do with the mental capacity to understand that rape and murder are wrong?

Did you understand that murder and rape, and theft were wrong at, say age 9? age 11? age 13? why or why not?

Again, these were not kids playing doctor. These were kids participating in the brutal rape of two women that ended putting them up in the hospital. If that doesn't trigger a "wait a minute.... this is wrong...i'm out of here" reaction then like Sinflix say, they don't deserve to live. Are you really saying that they did not know that they were doing something wrong so they don't deserve punishment?

This isn't about consenting to sex or understanding a contract. This is about committing a crime. Two different mindsets. Two different parts of the brain.

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This isn't about consenting to sex or understanding a contract. This is about committing a crime. Two different mindsets. Two different parts of the brain.

I understand the way you feel, but doctors and psychologists would disagree with you.

The reason center of your brain is the one charged with understanding the consequences of your actions and quantifying their costs. This center of the brain is less developed in younger people. There's simply more to it than just knowing right from wrong. Sorry.

[Sinfix_15]

I understand the way you feel, but doctors and psychologists would disagree with you.

The reason center of your brain is the one charged with understanding the consequences of your actions and quantifying their costs. This center of the brain is less developed in younger people. There's simply more to it than just knowing right from wrong. Sorry.

And this section of the brain jump starts on your 18th birthday?

[ISAtlanta300]

I understand the way you feel, but doctors and psychologists would disagree with you.

The reason center of your brain is the one charged with understanding the consequences of your actions and quantifying their costs. This center of the brain is less developed in younger people. There's simply more to it than just knowing right from wrong. Sorry.

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it". I don't understand the consequences of my actions if I, say, embezzle money from the government. But I am aware there is some type of punishment for it. Doesn't mean it's an excuse for me to go do it. Same with a 13 year old. Doesn't matter if they understand the consequences, they KNOW there IS a consequence, and NOT a good one!.

Kids understand consequences of doing right and wrong since they started walking, Blank. They know they would get spanked, grounded, time out, punished for certain actions. So I honestly don't believe that a 13 year old doesn't understand that breaking the law gets him more punishment than simply being grounded and toys taken away. This isn't shoplifting or drinking a beer. This is intentionally hurting someone else through one's action.

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"Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it". I don't understand the consequences of my actions if I, say, embezzle money from the government. But I am aware there is some type of punishment for it. Doesn't mean it's an excuse for me to go do it. Same with a 13 year old. Doesn't matter if they understand the consequences, they KNOW there IS a consequence, and NOT a good one!.

Kids understand consequences of doing right and wrong since they started walking, Blank. They know they would get spanked, grounded, time out, punished for certain actions. So I honestly don't believe that a 13 year old doesn't understand that breaking the law gets him more punishment than simply being grounded and toys taken away. This isn't shoplifting or drinking a beer. This is intentionally hurting someone else through one's action.

I know what you feel like kids should know. But the physiology says something completely different.

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And this section of the brain jump starts on your 18th birthday?

Nope. Some later than others. I could make a case that it should be generally later than 18, and maybe in some ways younger, but it seems that 18 is the line that we've drawn, as a society that says the amount of time it generally takes to get your shit together enough to be fully autonomous.

[Sinfix_15]

Nope. Some later than others. I could make a case that it should be generally later than 18, and maybe in some ways younger, but it seems that 18 is the line that we've drawn, as a society that says the amount of time it generally takes to get your shit together enough to be fully autonomous.

So we should stop sending children into combat?

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So we should stop sending children into combat?

Are you asking if I think the age to enlist should be older than 18? I think the mind of a lot of 17 and 18 year olds are still quite impressionable, and, as someone who was "recruited" before, I think the recruitment process takes advantage of that. I think they gloss over a lot of facts in order to get you to join. I think if, in the face of all the pros and cons, its very possible for an 18 year old to come to a rational decision.

[Sinfix_15]

Are you asking if I think the age to enlist should be older than 18? I think the mind of a lot of 17 and 18 year olds are still quite impressionable, and, as someone who was "recruited" before, I think the recruitment process takes advantage of that. I think they gloss over a lot of facts in order to get you to join. I think if, in the face of all the pros and cons, its very possible for an 18 year old to come to a rational decision.

And when a 17 year old and a 15 year old shoot a toddler in the face, they should both be released after a short stint in juvi? or one or the other? why or why not?

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And when a 17 year old and a 15 year old shoot a toddler in the face, they should both be released after a short stint in juvi? or one or the other? why or why not?

It's entirely possible to evaluate them, psychologically. Through that process is what will determine if they get tried as adults or minors.

[Sinfix_15]

It's entirely possible to evaluate them, psychologically. Through that process is what will determine if they get tried as adults or minors.

does it really matter? if a retarded person kills 50 people with a butcher knife and makes throw rugs out of their skin, what should we do with that person?

[00CelicaGT]

Texan who killed man raping his daughter will not face murder charge - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/3/texan-who-killed-man-raping-his-daughter-will-not-/#.UiYewOzjAkU.twitter)

Father stops the rape of his daughter, beats attacker to death. Justice served...

:yay::yay::yay::yay:
This is the justice I seek for criminals like this

[Sinfix_15]

more innocent teens, slap them on the wrist and let them go, they dont know any better...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130831/NEWS01/308310023/3-teens-charged-with-murder-in-Des-Moines-man-s-beating?Frontpage&nclick_check=1

[ISAtlanta300]

It's entirely possible to evaluate them, psychologically. Through that process is what will determine if they get tried as adults or minors.

So does the psychological evaluation make the crimes more forgivable? Why or why not?

Does it make a difference to the toddler, who is still dead?

[Elbow]

It's entirely possible to evaluate them, psychologically. Through that process is what will determine if they get tried as adults or minors.

LOL....

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LOL....

Don't understand what's funny. This is what already happens. Don't know if you're aware of it or not.

[Elbow]

Don't understand what's funny. This is what already happens. Don't know if you're aware of it or not.

I am aware, it's just funny how stupid it is when I read it.