Dekalb school shooting

[Sinfix_15]

McNair Elementary School Gunman: Police In Georgia Respond To Shots Fired, Suspect In Custody (UPDATE) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/mcnair-elementary-school-gunman_n_3786109.html?ncid=webmail1)

[BanginJimmy]

Not much into out there yet but it sounds to me like the guy was trying to commit suicide by police and either got cold feet or the cops were level headed enough to talk before shooting.

As far as how he got into the building, sounds to me like he had some kind of believable excuse to be there. That shouldnt be too hard to come up with when dealing with govt employees.

[Vteckidd]

White male 19 year old.

Starting to feel like if a underage kid can get a gun, we should charge his parents with something. just my .02

[D3UC3S]

No way, a shooting in Dekalb???? Didn't see that coming.

[WhiteAccord]

White male 19 year old.

Starting to feel like if a underage kid can get a gun, we should charge his parents with something. just my .02

He's an adult. Don't see where his parents come in to play....

[98strat]

also saying he is a convicted felon before this happened.

[Echonova]

Anybody else get the irony that the parents had to have a photo ID to pick up their kids?



What if they were oppressed or disenfranchised? Blatant racism on behalf of Dekalb county.

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Anybody else get the irony that the parents had to have a photo ID to pick up their kids?



What if they were oppressed or disenfranchised? Blatant racism on behalf of Dekalb county.

Picking up your kids from school /= poll tax. Just throwing that out there.

[-EnVus-]

The kid said he didn't know what he was doing and he was sorry and scared......This means Obama's Brain wash didnt work as it did the others.
Southern states are the hardest to convert to anti-Guns and his first attempt was a fail.

[Echonova]

The kid said he didn't know what he was doing and he was sorry and scared......This means Obama's Brain wash didnt work as it did the others.
Southern states are the hardest to convert to anti-Guns and his first attempt was a fail.http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j370/Jezey/OMG%20ShutUp%20WTF%20Gifs/tumblr_m3rmyz1PCI1qguwpao1_500-wtf.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Jezey/media/OMG%20ShutUp%20WTF%20Gifs/tumblr_m3rmyz1PCI1qguwpao1_500-wtf.gif.html)

[Sinfix_15]

Picking up your kids from school /= poll tax. Just throwing that out there.

http://exposethemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/thingsthatrequireid2.jpg

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This forum is filled with straw men. No one anywhere has ever argued that asking for an ID to vote is racist, except for you.

[Sinfix_15]

This forum is filled with straw men. No one anywhere has ever argued that asking for an ID to vote is racist, except for you.

Really? are you speaking on behalf of forum participants? No, YOU havnt said voter ID is racist.... but the party you relentlessly support is taking that stance.

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Really? are you speaking on behalf of forum participants? No, YOU havnt said voter ID is racist.... but the party you relentlessly support is taking that stance.

Can you give me one example of any party who's core belief is that asking for an ID to vote is racist? That isn't "common sense" or a gut feeling?"

After that, could you give me an example of me "relentlessly supporting" any party?

[Sinfix_15]

Can you give me one example of any party who's core belief is that asking for an ID to vote is racist? That isn't "common sense" or a gut feeling?"

After that, could you give me an example of me "relentlessly supporting" any party?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9o-S3zl2ddY

[Sinfix_15]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TTXraVnfZYY

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Does the NAACP or that other guy speak for themselves or for a specific party?

[Sinfix_15]

Does the NAACP or that other guy speak for themselves or for a specific party?

So, you're capable of recognizing an ideological shift that allegedly happened sometime in the 1900s, but you're incapable of recognizing how overwhelmingly democrat the NAACP is or that voter id law complaints are almost exclusively based on the argument that the NAACP just put forth?

For the record, do you agree with voter ID laws? why or why not?

[.blank cd]

So, you're capable of recognizing an ideological shift that allegedly happened sometime in the 1900s, but you're incapable of recognizing how overwhelmingly democrat the NAACP is or that voter id law complaints are almost exclusively based on the argument that the NAACP just put forth?

For the record, do you agree with voter ID laws? why or why not?Why does it matter what political party they subscribe to?

I agree with constitutional voter ID laws.

[Sinfix_15]

Why does it matter what political party they subscribe to?

I agree with constitutional voter ID laws.

Help me understand the line which separates constitutional and unconstitutional voter ID laws

[bu villain]

If the KKK overwhelmingly supports the Republican party, it doesn't make the Republican party white supremacists. So don't try to use the same logic against Democrats and their support from the NAACP or any other group.

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Help me understand the line which separates constitutional and unconstitutional voter ID laws

The same exact line that would separate the constitutionality of anything.

[Vteckidd]

He's an adult. Don't see where his parents come in to play....

Mentally Ill 19 Year old, i want to know WHERE he got the gun from, and find out HOW. If it was from his parents, or someone else, they should be charged, HOW DO YOU NOT LOCK UP A AK47 WITH A MENTALLY ILL person in your hosue?

[Vteckidd]

http://exposethemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/thingsthatrequireid2.jpg

none of that is a RIGHT guaranteed in the constitution, FYI.

VOTING is a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution, theres nothing (im aware of) that is in the Constitution that says you have to have an ID to vote.

Im totally in favor of people having an ID to vote FYI, but using the strawman of "you have to have an ID to do X=defacto Voter ID isnt a sound argument." IMo

What we should be asking is, I want to meet the people that vote WITHOUT ID and I want to see how they live day to day. Its virtually impossible IMO to live without a ID. You cant drive, you cant fly, you cant work, you cant do anything. I want to see the % of people without IDs who vote REGULARLY. I want to see the racial breakdown, the age differences, geographic areas, etc.

THEN, Id venture to say its less than .001% of the population

The Voter ID blowback is because of other more sinister reasons.

[bu villain]

It only took seven posts for this thread to get derailed into an argument about Voter ID laws. Vteck, thanks for your valiant effort to bring it back on topic.

[Vteckidd]

It only took seven posts for this thread to get derailed into an argument about Voter ID laws. Vteck, thanks for your valiant effort to bring it back on topic.

LOL i try :P

To be honest this kid just sounds like he is seriously mentally challenged, unaware of reality.

But, I still want to know how a 19 year old mentally ill kid got a AK47 and 500+ rounds. If it belonged to someone he was living with, then Ill be REALLY pissed off at that irresponsible firearm owner.

[bu villain]

LOL i try :P

To be honest this kid just sounds like he is seriously mentally challenged, unaware of reality.

But, I still want to know how a 19 year old mentally ill kid got a AK47 and 500+ rounds. If it belonged to someone he was living with, then Ill be REALLY pissed off at that irresponsible firearm owner.

Totally agree. Anyone who walks into a school with a gun and starts shooting is pretty much guaranteed to be in a less than rational mental state. There wouldn't be much of a debate about gun laws if all gun owners were responsible gun owners though.

[Sinfix_15]

If the KKK overwhelmingly supports the Republican party, it doesn't make the Republican party white supremacists. So don't try to use the same logic against Democrats and their support from the NAACP or any other group.

The KKK (founded by democrats) has zero political pull. When republican candidates start attending KKK rallies to give speeches, i will devote attention to them.

[Sinfix_15]

Totally agree. Anyone who walks into a school with a gun and starts shooting is pretty much guaranteed to be in a less than rational mental state. There wouldn't be much of a debate about gun laws if all gun owners were responsible gun owners though.

You shouldnt be allowed to be on the internet right now.... somewhere someone is uploading child porn.... because of this, nobody should have the internet.

[Sinfix_15]

none of that is a RIGHT guaranteed in the constitution, FYI.

VOTING is a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution, theres nothing (im aware of) that is in the Constitution that says you have to have an ID to vote.

Im totally in favor of people having an ID to vote FYI, but using the strawman of "you have to have an ID to do X=defacto Voter ID isnt a sound argument." IMo

What we should be asking is, I want to meet the people that vote WITHOUT ID and I want to see how they live day to day. Its virtually impossible IMO to live without a ID. You cant drive, you cant fly, you cant work, you cant do anything. I want to see the % of people without IDs who vote REGULARLY. I want to see the racial breakdown, the age differences, geographic areas, etc.

THEN, Id venture to say its less than .001% of the population

The Voter ID blowback is because of other more sinister reasons.

I'd love to meet a lot of the people who voted for Obama without an ID also...... but unfortunately, a lot of them are dead.

[Vteckidd]

Totally agree. Anyone who walks into a school with a gun and starts shooting is pretty much guaranteed to be in a less than rational mental state.

But there is a difference between MENTALLY ILL and just EVIL. Mcveigh was evil, but he was sane. this kid sounds genuinely insane/mentally unstable right?

Theres a difference

[bu villain]

The KKK (founded by democrats) has zero political pull. When republican candidates start attending KKK rallies to give speeches, i will devote attention to them.

You should judge people on their beliefs, not on the beliefs of people who like them. That's all I am saying. If a Democrat believes in a position that you disagree with, then say that, don't use another group as a proxy though.


You shouldnt be allowed to be on the internet right now.... somewhere someone is uploading child porn.... because of this, nobody should have the internet.

Are you under the impression I think we should outlaw gun ownership?


But there is a difference between MENTALLY ILL and just EVIL. Mcveigh was evil, but he was sane. this kid sounds genuinely insane/mentally unstable right?

Theres a difference

Could you give your definition of each. I don't believe in evil. If you feel good when committing "evil" acts are you not by definition mentally disturbed? If some people are evil, why should they ever be allowed to live free and thus possibly be a threat to society? Is it possible for an evil person to behave in a non-evil way? To me, the only relevant question is, is this person a threat to society and what actions if any are necessary/sufficient to keep them from being a threat in the future.

[Vteckidd]

My point is that there are people who stand trial, who have committed murder, and are considered legally SANE.

Mcveigh is just the most recent one. He willingly killed people and children, and in the eyes of our laws, he was mentally sane.

This kid doesnt sound "all there", of course the courts will determine that.

I was merely asserting that just because someone commits murder, doesnt put them on the same level as mentally insane

[bu villain]

I was merely asserting that just because someone commits murder, doesnt put them on the same level as mentally insane

Totally agree with that. However, I think randomly shooting people for no rational reason is by definition, insane.

[Vteckidd]

Totally agree with that. However, I think randomly shooting people for no rational reason is by definition, insane.

its tought to make that distinction because guys like Mcveigh dont seem as crazy to me as say, James Garfield (the Dark Knight shooter). He clearly looks nuts, Mcveigh to me, knew what he was doing the whole time

[bu villain]

Yeah but I also don't think "He doesn't seem crazy" is the best criteria for making that judgement. McVeigh wasn't insane because he stated the reason for his killing was political. He bombed a federal building in retaliation for the federal handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge. So while his thought process is despicable it is clearly rational.

[Sinfix_15]

Yeah but I also don't think "He doesn't seem crazy" is the best criteria for making that judgement. McVeigh wasn't insane because he stated the reason for his killing was political. He bombed a federal building in retaliation for the federal handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge. So while his thought process is despicable it is clearly rational.

I agree with you on the statement about not believing in evil and i think you answered the question of "what is the definition of evil" in this post. Evil is just a way to explain the unexplainable. If we dont understand why someone did something, we call it evil. If a man came home to find his cheating wife and stabbed her 50 times, we would call it murder, not evil. If a man just randomly decided to stab a woman 50 times, we would call it evil, because we dont understand the causation of that action.

[Vteckidd]

Yeah but I also don't think "He doesn't seem crazy" is the best criteria for making that judgement. McVeigh wasn't insane because he stated the reason for his killing was political. He bombed a federal building in retaliation for the federal handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge. So while his thought process is despicable it is clearly rational.

you see the conundrum though.

You said anyone who kills is insane, but then we both agree that Mcviegh wasnt, in the eyes of the law, insane

#WHOA

[Vteckidd]

To mcveigh it was rational , to us its not.

fuck, im creeping myself out now

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There are differences between the legal definition of insane, the medical definition, and the colloquialism.

[bu villain]

Evil is just a way to explain the unexplainable.

Doesn't that also apply to a lot of mental illness though? We can't explain why this person acts in an unexplainable way so we call them crazy.

[bu villain]

you see the conundrum though.

You said anyone who kills is insane, but then we both agree that Mcviegh wasnt, in the eyes of the law, insane

#WHOA

No I didn't say anyone who kills is insane. I said anyone who kills with no logical reason is insane. That's a very important distinction.


To mcveigh it was rational , to us its not.

fuck, im creeping myself out now

No it is completely logical to me. An entity (in this case the federal government) did something he believed was wrong and in return he bombed a building belonging to that entity. That's logical. Terrible, but logical.

[Sinfix_15]

Doesn't that also apply to a lot of mental illness though? We can't explain why this person acts in an unexplainable way so we call them crazy.

I personally view evil as a religious term. "mental illness" would be the scientific explanation for "evil". I dont think understanding mental illness will ever lead to preventing tragedies, at least not in a manner in which people would be willing to accept. Life is hard, some people are more or less equip to deal with various obstacles in life, but i dont think there's a reasonably accurate way to predict when someone is going to go crazy. The threshold for what makes a person snap is all over the map and i feel every single person on the planet has at least *some* potential to snap. Safety and freedom are on opposite sides of the scale, i dont believe there's a way to have both.

[bu villain]

I agree with all that except the last statement. Sure absolute safety is not possible but not everything that increases safety decreases freedom and vice versa.

[Echonova]

If one thing is clear, it's this...




We need more gun laws to keep 20yr old mentally ill felons from buying firearms.