This video took place in america.... in case you were wondering.

[Sinfix_15]

No warrant. Home of a law abiding citizen.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8

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No warrant. Home of a law abiding citizen.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8

Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with it, but there are laws that make this legal in this circumstance.

But I'm gathering from this post that you don't agree with suspicionless searches. Am I correct?

[Sinfix_15]

Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with it, but there are laws that make this legal in this circumstance.

But I'm gathering from this post that you don't agree with suspicionless searches. Am I correct?

Please explain the laws that make this legal?

Of course i dont and nobody should.

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Please explain the laws that make this legal?

Of course i dont and nobody should.

Its difficult to gather all the circumstances from this video alone since it was filmed from across the street. What we can see is the front man knocked on the door and the homeowner answered. So, either:

A) Bombing suspect was tracked down into the area. Exigent circumstance goes into effect. Probable cause exists to enter a home without a warrant if they believe they're preventing the destruction of evidence, or if there's imminent danger to themselves or others, or to keep a suspect from escaping.

B) They in fact had a "knock and announce" warrant. But I'm pretty sure you have to have a specific one for each house you enter. So I'm gonna go with A.


And you're damn right no one should want a suspicionless search.

[Sinfix_15]

Its difficult to gather all the circumstances from this video alone since it was filmed from across the street. What we can see is the front man knocked on the door and the homeowner answered. So, either:

A) Bombing suspect was tracked down into the area. Exigent circumstance goes into effect. Probable cause exists to enter a home without a warrant if they believe they're preventing the destruction of evidence, or if there's imminent danger to themselves or others

B) They in fact had a "knock and announce" warrant. But I'm pretty sure you have to have a specific one for each house you enter. So I'm gonna go with A.


And you're damn right no one should want a suspicionless search.

So the police can declare that entire cities are in "imminent danger" and search entire cities without warrants?

I suppose this theory would apply to any and every fugitive who is on the run? If "criminal A" is believed to be traveling from Ohio to Florida, is the path between Ohio and Florida all in imminent danger?

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So the police can declare that entire cities are in "imminent danger" and search entire cities without warrants?

I suppose this theory would apply to any and every fugitive who is on the run? If "criminal A" is believed to be traveling from Ohio to Florida, is the path between Ohio and Florida all in imminent danger?

No. Pretty sure it'd have to be very local. The entire city was on lock down, but they traced him down. If I'm not mistaken, that would be the house of the owner of the boat where he was hiding. I didnt watch that whole video, but another video from the same vantage point showed a gun battle immediately afterward.

[Vteckidd]

people could refuse and there is nothing the cops could do without a warrant. However, im sure they had judges on standby for warrants in case anyone refused.

[Vteckidd]

Actually what we dont know, is that guy could have been the one who called the suspect in, at which point the police would do EXACTLY what they did because they dont know who is lieing and who is not.

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people could refuse and there is nothing the cops could do without a warrant. However, im sure they had judges on standby for warrants in case anyone refused.

In this circumstance, if someone refused on the other side, they woulda came in anyway.

[Matt300ZXT]

Did they have them run out of their house with their hands up like they were criminals and pat them down? Checking their house in a manhunt whether it's a legit crime or a government setup is one thing, but treating them like criminals and patting them down is another. I may have let them in my house while I was inside to check but they wouldn't be touching me, fuck them.

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Did they have them run out of their house with their hands up like they were criminals and pat them down? Checking their house in a manhunt whether it's a legit crime or a government setup is one thing, but treating them like criminals and patting them down is another. I may have let them in my house while I was inside to check but they wouldn't be touching me, fuck them.

You'd get arrested quickly. Lol

[Sinfix_15]

You'd get arrested quickly. Lol

I would have been arrested.

[1civic]

I'd tell them to come back with a warrant, and call the lawyer..

Fuck this home invasion bullshit!!

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I would have been arrested.

Why put yourself through that? Lol. It'd be an open and shut case and you'd lose. You wouldn't change any legal language in the process, and you'd probably have something like obstruction on your record. The only chance you'd have of making any change would be challenging exigent circumstance clause through an appeal. Not gonna happen. Not worth it.

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I'd tell them to come back with a warrant, and call the lawyer..

Fuck this home invasion bullshit!!

And they would have vaporized your front door. Lol.

What you saw in the video was legal. Not home invasion. Lol

[Sinfix_15]

Why put yourself through that? Lol. It'd be an open and shut case and you'd lose. You wouldn't change any legal language in the process, and you'd probably have something like obstruction on your record. The only chance you'd have of making any change would be challenging exigent circumstance clause through an appeal. Not gonna happen. Not worth it.

Principle. Knowing you can win is not the only reason to fight.

[1civic]

And they would have vaporized your front door. Lol.

What you saw in the video was legal. Not home invasion. Lol

They better come with brass balls, that demanding bullshit don't work with me, that's not legal!!




Brass balls = judge



:cheers:

[Sinfix_15]

They better come with brass balls, that demanding bullshit don't work with me, that's not legal!!




Brass balls = judge



:cheers:

This is the america that Obama wants........ privacy, private property.... liberty, rights..... theyre all things that "constrain" this government.

[1civic]

Even in exigent circumstances, while a warrantless seizure may be permitted, a subsequent warrant to search may still be necessary.



Source: Exigent circumstance in United States law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance_in_United_States_law)

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Even in exigent circumstances, while a warrantless seizure may be permitted, a subsequent warrant to search may still be necessary.



Source: Exigent circumstance in United States law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance_in_United_States_law)

Yep. Doesn't mean they can't search the house for bombs, guns, or pat you down for weapons.

[Sinfix_15]

Yep. Doesn't mean they can't search the house for bombs, guns, or pat you down for weapons.

My guns are none of their business. They have no reason to pat me down for weapons. In that scenario, i would have a weapon on me.

[1civic]

They treat them people like criminals, what reason could that man have to demand them... No Public Servant will bark orders at me when I've done nothing wrong!

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You guys do remember these guys just had bombs thrown at them...right?

[1civic]

You guys do remember these guys just had bombs thrown at them...right?

Is there not training? Cause I swore they where trained for this job, objective is to stay claim, not be a DICK!!



LOL

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Is there not training? Cause I swore they where trained for this job, objective is to stay claim, not be a DICK!!



LOL

Of course there's training. The training includes making sure no one else in the area is gonna throw a bomb at you. Lol

[Sinfix_15]

Of course there's training. The training includes making sure no one else in the area is gonna throw a bomb at you. Lol


Constitution did not guarantee police the right to an easy day at work.

[Vteckidd]

Did they have them run out of their house with their hands up like they were criminals and pat them down? Checking their house in a manhunt whether it's a legit crime or a government setup is one thing, but treating them like criminals and patting them down is another. I may have let them in my house while I was inside to check but they wouldn't be touching me, fuck them.

put yourself in their shoes.

They were just led on a 12 hour police chase where 1 officer was shot and killed, 15 others were injured, and they were tossing pipe bombs out at them with no regard for public safety.

YOu bet your rosey red ass they would make you come out with your hands up

[Vteckidd]

Is there not training? Cause I swore they where trained for this job, objective is to stay claim, not be a DICK!!



LOL

I didnt see anything that made them be a "dick" . they were executing a neighborhood search for a suspect who was a known murdered and was using explosives. They dont know who YOU are, for all they know you are the terrorist or you are the guy harboring the terrorist, so they treat everyone as a threat until its neutralized.

Did you not see them take down and subdue a man the night before and order him to strip himself naked , they had him in handcuffs BARE ASS Naked in 30 degree weather because he was similar looking to the suspect.

I understand the point you are making, but its for your own safety in a terrorist situation to cooperate with authorities.

[Vteckidd]

Constitution did not guarantee police the right to an easy day at work.

Im sorry im going to disagree.

On one hand you cant say that the police are to protect and serve, then on the other be like "fuck you man, i dont have to tell you shit" .

Kinda like how people claim we should stop all terrorist attacks, but want to ban the TSA and eliminate the Dept of HS.

[-EnVus-]

Freeze also where are the fucking donuts

[Echonova]

I bought a new gun today.
































From the evil underground black market where no background check was performed except the seller wanted to see my CCW, but mine had expired so I showed him my Hazmat CDL (because you can't be a felon and have one) and convinced him with smooth talk that I was legal to own one. He bought it hook, line and sinker.

















Oh wait. I am legal.

[Echonova]

On the upside I got a new gun today.









































Not sure I mentioned that.

[Echonova]

For those that haven't heard.


































New gun. I got it.

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so I showed him my Hazmat CDL (because you can't be a felon and have one).
What are you doing with a Hazmat CDL


O_o

[Echonova]

What are you doing with a Hazmat CDL


O_oOh you didn't know? Obama (through the DMV) has entrusted me with the ability to transport nuclear material.


You should sleep better knowing that know.

[1civic]

http://www.intarnet.us/graphics/gif/osnap.gif

[-EnVus-]

What are you doing with a Hazmat CDL


O_o
You need Hazmat to empty shit tanks

[Sinfix_15]

Im sorry im going to disagree.

On one hand you cant say that the police are to protect and serve, then on the other be like "fuck you man, i dont have to tell you shit" .

Kinda like how people claim we should stop all terrorist attacks, but want to ban the TSA and eliminate the Dept of HS.

Essentially, the police are my employee. They are public servants that swore to defend liberty. When their services start to come at the expense of liberty, then i no longer value their services. What those police did was wrong. There is no justifying it. They made a dangerous situation more dangerous with their actions.

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They made a dangerous situation more dangerous with their actions.
How do you figure?

[Sinfix_15]

How do you figure?

Not everyone responds well to having guns pointed at them or having their home raided.

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Not everyone responds well to having guns pointed at them or having their home raided.

Then I'd suppose if you can't control your trigger happy impulses when SWAT's beating on your door, then you'd be one of those people on the list of people that shouldn't have a gun.

[MOWE]

IMO in extreme circumstances as this one was then the police get my vote to search , hunt and do what they need to do to rectify the situation. I believe in my civil rights and the constitution but I also believe that law enforcement is here to do a job. It is a very difficult job and there are times where my "priveledged" rights may be violated in order for them to do it. I also believe that If I have done nothing wrong then I have nothing to hide....

If I was walking down the street and a cop wanted to pat me down...for NO REASON I would allow it....People argue and say screw that ...no way...I would tell that cop to shove it....for what ? ....because he is violating my civil rights..blah blah blah....if you aint do nothing wrong then comply and it will be over way quicker....

We have soooo many liberties in this country and yes I see peoples point that if we dont stand up for the rights we have then why do we have them..minds well be a third party country ...blah blah blah....every so often feathers get ruffled and people want to be tough and so no no no ....and why ? ....this country will never go to the other end of the spectrum....there are so many issues that people deal with in other countries that we do not have to deal with here....and we wanna bitch for ever thing we can bitch at

My feeling is that I trust my law enforcment agencies...are they corrupt and crooked..can be at times. Are they flawed...can be at times..but overall the security blanket they provide is one that I appreciate and truly thank....I laugh at people that say Fk the cops...blah blah blah....those are the same punks that couldnt stand on their own two feet w/honor and integrity if they had to...not all but most. And I come from a background where as a kid I didnt respect the law....and sometimes today I still dont...but I understand the consequences and I dont get mad at the person enforcing them...

Rant over...I am sure that most of my opinions will not be agreed with but they are mine and i can voice them and one day if I cant then i will deal with that at that point. (in case an extremists wanna say that its these same views that may lose us this ability in the future...never any middle ground or understanding with those types )

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^^ you better fucking run quick, this section doesn't take too well to levelheadedness. Lol.

[MOWE]

^^ you better fucking run quick, this section doesn't take too well to levelheadedness. Lol.

lol..I usually dont share my opinions...this morning I was in a rare mood.

I dont hate/discriminate against people w/different views or complete opposite views...I see both parties points.

I guess I am neutral in some ways

[Black R]

I've had my rights violated on multiple occasions by LEO, as I'm sure many citizens have.
What recourse would the people in the video have?

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I've had my rights violated on multiple occasions by LEO, as I'm sure many citizens have.
What recourse would the people in the video have?

None really. Everything in the video was legal. That was the house of the guy that called the cops when he found him in the boat.

[Sinfix_15]

Then I'd suppose if you can't control your trigger happy impulses when SWAT's beating on your door, then you'd be one of those people on the list of people that shouldn't have a gun.

This is how that scenario would go at my house. I hear someone violently banging on my door. I grab my gun, go to the door without opening it and yell through the door to ask who it is. When they identify themselves as police, i would holster my gun and open the door with the chain on. When they started yelling at me, i would ask them if they had a warrant. If they continued yelling, i would ask them to calmly explain the situation to me and to stop yelling. If they continued yelling, i would tell them to get the fuck off my property and shut the door.

Now we have a scenario where i have made the police aware that i am willing to cooperate but i am also exercising my rights. If they then entered my home by force, who is at fault? Me or the police?

I am not saying i would draw a gun on the police, i wouldnt..... but we would now have a scenario where raging angry cops who are already over stepping the boundaries of their authority potentially breaching my door to find an armed, yet peaceful individual. Hell, they may shoot me for the fuck of it and lay my gun beside me, say i attempted to shoot them.... idk... i dont trust the police, do you????

But i consider that situation more dangerous and volatile than me cracking my door, asking them if they have a warrant and getting a civil response along the lines of...
"no sir we do not have a warrant, but we're hunting a dangerous fugitive who is on the loose here and for both of our safety we would like to check all the houses on this block to make sure he isnt hiding away, if you could sir open the door and put your hands where i can see them, everyone is real nervous out here and we just want to keep everyone safe"

In which case i would respond, "yes sir" and open the door.

[Sinfix_15]

IMO in extreme circumstances as this one was then the police get my vote to search , hunt and do what they need to do to rectify the situation. I believe in my civil rights and the constitution but I also believe that law enforcement is here to do a job. It is a very difficult job and there are times where my "priveledged" rights may be violated in order for them to do it. I also believe that If I have done nothing wrong then I have nothing to hide....

If I was walking down the street and a cop wanted to pat me down...for NO REASON I would allow it....People argue and say screw that ...no way...I would tell that cop to shove it....for what ? ....because he is violating my civil rights..blah blah blah....if you aint do nothing wrong then comply and it will be over way quicker....

We have soooo many liberties in this country and yes I see peoples point that if we dont stand up for the rights we have then why do we have them..minds well be a third party country ...blah blah blah....every so often feathers get ruffled and people want to be tough and so no no no ....and why ? ....this country will never go to the other end of the spectrum....there are so many issues that people deal with in other countries that we do not have to deal with here....and we wanna bitch for ever thing we can bitch at

My feeling is that I trust my law enforcment agencies...are they corrupt and crooked..can be at times. Are they flawed...can be at times..but overall the security blanket they provide is one that I appreciate and truly thank....I laugh at people that say Fk the cops...blah blah blah....those are the same punks that couldnt stand on their own two feet w/honor and integrity if they had to...not all but most. And I come from a background where as a kid I didnt respect the law....and sometimes today I still dont...but I understand the consequences and I dont get mad at the person enforcing them...

Rant over...I am sure that most of my opinions will not be agreed with but they are mine and i can voice them and one day if I cant then i will deal with that at that point. (in case an extremists wanna say that its these same views that may lose us this ability in the future...never any middle ground or understanding with those types )

The constitution was meant to restrict the government, not you. Just as easily as you can be a good citizen and assist them at doing their job, they can be good police officers and not overstep their boundaries. In my lifetime, 99% of cops have treated me with respect and ive had no cause to be in disagreement with them. That 1% guy, got told to fuck off.