Observations of the "gun show loophole"

[Sinfix_15]

So you hear this phrase thrown around a lot in the media by anti-gun nut jobs.... the "gun show loophole"... where they imply that gun shows are a gun free for all where any criminal could go and purchase buggies full of weapons. Where hardened criminals can go and buy AR15s by the wheel barrel full...... where Hitler himself if he were alive today could go and buy machine guns...........

They imply that a gun show is a flea market for guns where it's no questions asked.... pay cash, walk out with a gun....

well......

i went to a gun show today and made it a point to evaluate this belief and gather a full understanding of the "gun show loophole" and how easy it is to exploit.



I walk through the door where there is a uniformed on duty police officer checking guns and securing them. At least 50 signs up outside the door stating the rules of entering and purchasing guns. There's a few different sections with 2 rows of tables and chairs approx 15 yards long with nothing but background check papers to be filled out and each vendor also had them. There's an entire section of phones calling in background checks. There's a $50 charge if you're denied for any reason on a background check. Every single vendor in the building required a background check. Nobody complained.... everything was happy and enjoyable. Mothers, fathers, daughters, sons.... small children all walking around peacefully admiring and purchasing guns. Lots of NRA stuff and zombie tshirts..... anti-Obama items.... everything you would expect to find in a venue that caters to freedom loving americans.

No problems what so ever.

My final thoughts on the day...... Government should mind their own business. They already have more on their plate than they can handle.

[Manny Naber]

It's not like that here in Augusta

[Vteckidd]

Its a misrepresentation to call it a "gun show loophole" because it is not a loophole, it is law. Any dealer , even at a gun show, is required by law to have a purchaser fill out a 4473 form.

The LOOP hole they talk about is the same process for buying a used weapon where no 4473 is required.

In a nutshell, there is no loop hole, its just called buying a gun USED from a non dealer, which you can do anywhere, not just at a gun show

[silversol]

The last firearm I bought at a gun show 2 years ago they called in a background check on me.

[.blank cd]

I walk through the door where there is a uniformed on duty police officer checking guns and securing them. At least 50 signs up outside the door stating the rules of entering and purchasing guns. There's a few different sections with 2 rows of tables and chairs approx 15 yards long with nothing but background check papers to be filled out and each vendor also had them. There's an entire section of phones calling in background checks. There's a $50 charge if you're denied for any reason on a background check. Every single vendor in the building required a background check. Nobody complained....So ya say there was actual gun control at this gun show?


Lots of NRA stuff and zombie tshirts..... anti-Obama items.... everything you would expect to find in a venue that caters to freedom loving americans.Sounds like a classy event

[Sinfix_15]

So ya say there was actual gun control at this gun show?

Sounds like a classy event

It was a classy event. Luckily nothing was being handed out for free so there were hardly any Obama supporters in the crowd.

I'll buy you one if you want it Blank.....

http://skreened.com/render-product/a/w/z/awzulyiauaxogkgnmsqa/obama-communist.american-apparel-unisex-fitted-tee.white.w760h760.jpg

[Vteckidd]

The last firearm I bought at a gun show 2 years ago they called in a background check on me.

If you buy from a FFL DEALER a 4473 is REQUIRED by LAW, no exceptions.

If you buy from a person USED, no 4473 is required.

Gun show really has nothing to do with it. They abide by all the same laws everyone else does.

[.blank cd]

I'll buy you one if you want it Blank.....

http://skreened.com/render-product/a/w/z/awzulyiauaxogkgnmsqa/obama-communist.american-apparel-unisex-fitted-tee.white.w760h760.jpgThe "Obammunist" Tee. When being simple, obtuse, mindless and uneducated in the privacy of your home is not enough. A tee that lets you proudly display your ignorance in public.

Now in Large, Extra Large, and Texas.

[Sinfix_15]

The "Obammunist" Tee. When being simple, obtuse, mindless and uneducated in the privacy of your home is not enough. A tee that lets you proudly display your ignorance in public.

Now in Large, Extra Large, and Texas.


http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv304/marie_feazell/Politics/obama-koolaid.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

If you want to look like an idiot in public....
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_IQLZJvAkbM/T12DG9xdOTI/AAAAAAAABMo/K2wcGIxd4o8/s1600/signup2.jpg

[Julio]

I will not lie.. 2 weeks go I purchased a gun from Bullseye.. Show them my permit.. No background check done. I did have to fill out the form, dude scanned ( 30 seconds ) it and that's it.. I have the old permit.. Easy to counterfit.. About 2 years ago I bought a gun from a gun show in Norcross.. Dude was so busy, looked at my ID in my hand, looked at me and I gave him the cash, didn't fill out the form.. Although, I am not a criminal, both of the instances were weird to me.. Previously, BG checks were always done, even at Bullseye on previous purchases..But not 2 weeks ago.. Anyways, I personally don't know what happened and how easy it was.. Totally weird and a little worrisome as well. I do believe in gun rights, but I also believe that all proper steps should be taken by the dealer/seller to prevent what we have going on today.

[Vteckidd]

If you have a concealed carry permit, there is NO background check, they just make sure you fill out the 4473 form. Concealed permit is equal to having a security clearance with DOD, they know who you are and youll be flagged way faster than the local FFL dealer. The concealed permit IS your background check, and you are now on file and they know anything the minute it happens.

[Julio]

If you have a concealed carry permit, there is NO background check, they just make sure you fill out the 4473 form. Concealed permit is equal to having a security clearance with DOD, they know who you are and youll be flagged way faster than the local FFL dealer. The concealed permit IS your background check, and you are now on file and they know anything the minute it happens.

True, But, BG checks have been done before even with the permit on me,, Seen it done at Bullseye.. At the GUN show, did not show my permit, ID never even left my hand. I think carelessnes goes on to much. Matter of fact, at American Marksman, they did a BG and I told them I had a permit, they didnt care.. They do BG's on everyone.

[Vteckidd]

Some stores will do a full BG check for the reason you stated, because the permits can be faked. Its up to the discretion of the FFL.

If you went to a gunshow, and paid someone money and they sold you a gun, and you never had to show anything, they are NOT an FFL dealer. If they are, they just committed a felony.

I think the problem is people confuse the gun show as like a place were everyone is a merchant licensed and such. Its not true. LICENSED FFL Dealers are required by federal law to do a 4473/BG check on anyone buying a gun used or new.

Person to Person sale requires no background check, no form, no ID , etc.

[Julio]

Some stores will do a full BG check for the reason you stated, because the permits can be faked. Its up to the discretion of the FFL.

If you went to a gunshow, and paid someone money and they sold you a gun, and you never had to show anything, they are NOT an FFL dealer. If they are, they just committed a felony.

I think the problem is people confuse the gun show as like a place were everyone is a merchant licensed and such. Its not true. LICENSED FFL Dealers are required by federal law to do a 4473/BG check on anyone buying a gun used or new.

Person to Person sale requires no background check, no form, no ID , etc.

Maybe, maybe not.. Table of about 400 guns... Pretty busy section... Several employees etc.. Pretty obvious.. I think he made a mistake... Or he did it on purpose to move faster...

[Vteckidd]

then hes a moron because that carries like $10s of $1000s of fines , jail time, etc

[Julio]

then hes a moron because that carries like $10s of $1000s of fines , jail time, etc


Shady dealers.. Or wanabee dealers.. Thats because of greed, will risk it.. If by chance i find the receipt, i will share the name.. But this was 2/3 years ago.. Im sure i have it.. Save those receipts.

[Sinfix_15]

Drinks over 16 ounces are now illegal in NY...... and the government wants us to trust them with gun control. Riiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttttttttt t.............

[On_Her_Face]

I bought my third handgun at a gas station from a private person (it was actually a trade + cash on my end). We both showed our HCP to each other (not required by law) and made two bill of sales for each hang gun (also not required). For me to deal with somebody I need to see a HCP to feel safe. Therefore I don't feel the government minimum is very safe.

[BanginJimmy]

I bought my third handgun at a gas station from a private person (it was actually a trade + cash on my end). We both showed our HCP to each other (not required by law) and made two bill of sales for each hang gun (also not required). For me to deal with somebody I need to see a HCP to feel safe. Therefore I don't feel the government minimum is very safe.

I agree with you. I am all for requiring a background check when you sell a weapon to someone without a carry license. The system is already in place, so dealers should be able to do it for reasonable fee. Since they wont be doing the weapon transfer, the paperwork should only take a couple seconds to fill out.


If you want to go one step further to protect yourself, have the other party bring a copy of the HCP with them to attach to the bill of sale.

[On_Her_Face]

I agree with you. I am all for requiring a background check when you sell a weapon to someone without a carry license. The system is already in place, so dealers should be able to do it for reasonable fee. Since they wont be doing the weapon transfer, the paperwork should only take a couple seconds to fill out.


If you want to go one step further to protect yourself, have the other party bring a copy of the HCP with them to attach to the bill of sale.

Yeah I haven't attached a picture of their HCP to the BoS but that is definitely some good thinking. Last thing I want is a crime with a gun in my name (my original gun) or owning a gun that has been used in a crime (newly purchased gun).

Obviously doing this can not stop it 100% but I would say it helps 99.9% of the time and keeps you dealing with "smart" and "safe" gun owners.

[BanginJimmy]

Yeah I haven't attached a picture of their HCP to the BoS but that is definitely some good thinking. Last thing I want is a crime with a gun in my name (my original gun) or owning a gun that has been used in a crime (newly purchased gun).

Obviously doing this can not stop it 100% but I would say it helps 99.9% of the time and keeps you dealing with "smart" and "safe" gun owners.


1 more thing to think about, any gun you purchase from anyone other than an FFL, take it to the police and have them run the serial number and make sure everything is legit. Also make sure all parts have matching serials. If not, find out why (this really only matters if purchasing from the original owner).

[On_Her_Face]

1 more thing to think about, any gun you purchase from anyone other than an FFL, take it to the police and have them run the serial number and make sure everything is legit. Also make sure all parts have matching serials. If not, find out why (this really only matters if purchasing from the original owner).

Yeah I've heard of people doing that but I have not been in a situation where I was buying a gun that would be in question (I guess all guns are in question). The gun that I purchased in my previous post was a NIB 1911, I still should of checked for matching numbers. I was too excited for my first 1911 haha.