Women in combat

[Sinfix_15]

So women were recently allowed in combat positions in the military. As in front line, navy seal, call of duty black ops type shit.....

At a glance my reaction to this was "fuck it, if women want to fight, let them fight" but the more i began to think it over.... this could be the dumbest shit in history and pretty selfish on the part of any and every woman who supports it. The military, especially at the level of seals and special ops, is not the time or place to try and prove yourself like you're Rudy on the Notre Dame football team. A combat unit should be selected based on their ability and their ability alone. A woman on a seal team risks the lives of every other person there just so women can have a girl power moment and prove theyre good for more than making sandwiches... It's good that you want to prove yourselves and it's admirable that you're willing to put YOURSELF in danger, but what needs to start being recognized is the danger that everyone else is being placed in to accommodate a women's rights.

A few areas where this concerns me.

#1 Women are not physically equal to men. If you think they are, lets have the LA Sparks play the LA Lakers and see how it turns out. Let's let a female boxer fight a male boxer or a female MMA fighter fight a male.

#2 Extra risk - You're already in an excessive amount of danger as it is, now you add to that the female factor. If we're at war with a country where women have no rights and are meant to be obedient, then a female soldier is going to be a bigger target. If a female was captured she is going to be tortured, raped and made an example of.

#3 Psychological - Whether women think theyre equal or not, men dont. Men feel like the protectors. In the event of capture, mental judgment would be weakened by the presence of women. Imagine an interrogation situation with a female being tortured. That would be added mental stress to male soldiers in an already difficult situation.

#4 Draft - Do we make 18 year old girls sign up for the draft? If you truly want equality, wouldnt that be the right thing to do?

#5 Image - What image does it send to the world that we would send our women to the front lines? Is the girl power equality moment worth projecting an image of weakness or a lack of value of women? What do you think the perception of america would be after the first time a female soldier was broadcast over the air being raped, tortured or murdered.


I think we need to stop trying to see things how they SHOULD be and be more aware of how they ARE. Even if we want men and women to be equal, theyre not. Bottom line. There's both strengths and weakness between men and women that should be observed and accounted for. A woman's strength is not in front line combat. They should not be allowed to put a mission at risk to prove their equality.

[Vteckidd]

I say if they are ok with the consequences, let them fight. They deserve every right to serve their country as they see fit IMO

The Draft IMO is a non issue because its meaningless at this point in our history. We have more than enough troops , the draft will NEVER be used again

[Matt300ZXT]

Our image abroad is already fucked up due to so many other countries hating us...whether it be for our freedom (however long that lasts) or our invasion of others as some see it. Secondly, when they started letting fags in the military openly serve, that just made muslim countries hate us even more. While I don't agree with muslim beliefs, I respect them as enemies due to their willingness to die for their cause. They're pieces of shit and I hope all militant muslims die a horrible death, but at least they have the balls to kill or die for what they believe.

Also, while I don't think it'll make women more prone to being picked out in a battlefield, as enemies are wanting to kill as many of their enemies as they can, it's simple math, I do agree with you on them being a higher risk for capture and torture.

[Sinfix_15]

I say if they are ok with the consequences, let them fight. They deserve every right to serve their country as they see fit IMO

The Draft IMO is a non issue because its meaningless at this point in our history. We have more than enough troops , the draft will NEVER be used again

So to be fair to women, we put every man who will serve beside them at more risk?

[Vteckidd]

I dont know if i necessarily buy the "women are always weaker" methodology. In GENERAL are men physically superior, IMO, YES. However, that isnt to say women cant meet the minimum standard or beyond.

Not every man can be Special Forces. You act like every woman is going to be made a member of Seal Team 6. Simply not true. They will have to pass the same training the male counterparts have to. If they survive, yes, they should serve as SO. IMO.

[Vteckidd]

Equal is Equal. They should have to pass the same tests the men do. If they do it, let them fight, I see no problem with it.

[SHHHH]

This in no way represents women as a whole or in general but I just thought it ironic that I watched this video then came to IA and saw this thread.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=722_1360164856


I agree with the OP on most of the points he brought up and I really hope this doesnt cause more harm then good in whatever branch they may be in.

[Bacon]

Equal is Equal. They should have to pass the same tests the men do. If they do it, let them fight, I see no problem with it.

My thoughts exactly.

There are women out there that can do any job just as good as her male counterparts. Some of the best co-workers I have ever worked with were all women.

[On_Her_Face]

My uncle was just talking about this the other day and how in Vietnam his vehicle was hit and the driver was knocked unconscious. He said it took everything from him and another man to drag the driver out to safety. Given there are "stronger women" out there, on average a woman due to genetics would not of been able to help and would of caused harm in this situation. I love women and respect them. Some situations are not fit for women and some are not fit for men. That's the way it is, that's life. For the people who think they can change everything and make it all equal need to wake the fuck up. Nobody is equal. Nobody. People might meet certain standards. Some generally higher some generally lower but never equal.

[Bacon]

There are men out there that can't do the job other men can and the same goes for women. I don't see war being any different from any other job choice.

Sin does throw out excellent points about general heritage and codes of conduct these fucked up countries have. They could simply become easier targets and be treated far worse.

[Sinfix_15]

In theory, if a woman is equal to a man, then yes.... they should not be held out simply because theyre women....

but keep in mind, we're talking about the type of man that would be on seal team 6....... what is the likelihood of there being a female equal to that man's ability.

Take the NBA for example, the best player in the WNBA might be able to hold their own with one of the worst in the NBA....... but for special ops combat.... we're talking about the allstar team. Women can already be in the military, that isnt what this is about. This is specifically about women in special ops combat. The "allstars" of the military.

[Sinfix_15]

Equal is Equal. They should have to pass the same tests the men do. If they do it, let them fight, I see no problem with it.

I agree in the literal sense of what you just said. They will need to pass the EXACT same test the men do. Not a female version, not a handicapped version.... the EXACT test the men do. If they do that, go for it.

[Bacon]

In theory, if a woman is equal to a man, then yes.... they should not be held out simply because theyre women....

but keep in mind, we're talking about the type of man that would be on seal team 6....... what is the likelihood of there being a female equal to that man's ability.

Take the NBA for example, the best player in the WNBA might be able to hold their own with one of the worst in the NBA....... but for special ops combat.... we're talking about the allstar team. Women can already be in the military, that isnt what this is about. This is specifically about women in special ops combat. The "allstars" of the military.

If a woman can do it, then it is what it is. I don't see how any one person could fail to make the team based solely on gender.

If you are indirectly asking us if we, if the given situation applied to us, would fight side by side with a female? My answer is yes, definitely. Unless she gives me a reason to put her back in the kitchen, I would not have a problem with it.

[-EnVus-]

They would make great shields or just let them titties fall out distract the enemy and Men kill them

[Elbow]

Not every woman at that rank is all "girl power" as you're indicating. If you want to fight, fight. Simple as that, if you can get to the level you're at based purely on the skills you have, with nothing else mattering, then I don't care what sex you are or what type of sex you're into it.

The ONLY deciding factor on allowing people to serve in different areas should be their skill set and proving themselves.

[BanginJimmy]

As usual, Sinfix is only half right. The ban on women in combat has been lifted officially. What he forgets to tell you is that women have been serving in combat roles for the last decade and there has been no measurable decline in readiness or effectiveness. He also forgot to tell you is that the services have time to declare some MOS's off limits to women if they can provide proper justification to do so. Its pretty much a given that women will still be disqualified from Infantry and Special Forces MOS's.

[Elbow]

As usual, Sinfix is only half right. The ban on women in combat has been lifted officially. What he forgets to tell you is that women have been serving in combat roles for the last decade and there has been no measurable decline in readiness or effectiveness. He also forgot to tell you is that the services have time to declare some MOS's off limits to women if they can provide proper justification to do so. Its pretty much a given that women will still be disqualified from Infantry and Special Forces MOS's.

lolol

[Sinfix_15]

As usual, Sinfix is only half right. The ban on women in combat has been lifted officially. What he forgets to tell you is that women have been serving in combat roles for the last decade and there has been no measurable decline in readiness or effectiveness. He also forgot to tell you is that the services have time to declare some MOS's off limits to women if they can provide proper justification to do so. Its pretty much a given that women will still be disqualified from Infantry and Special Forces MOS's.


This is what you're here for Jimmy and why i like you. I was aware that women have already been serving in "combat roles" but im aware what those those "combat roles" are. My opinion is speaking directly to women in special ops, which like you said "is pretty much a given that they will be disqualified".

So is this lift of a ban just a feel good story for women that will effectively change nothing?

[BanginJimmy]

So is this life of a ban just a feel good story for women that will effectively change nothing?

It will officially open up a lot of roles for women, but yea, it is mostly a PR thing at this point. Women can now officially serve in roles as a Combat Air Crew, on convoys, as medics attached to certain units.

I cant remember her name right now but she is a female Marine officer that tried to do the Marine Platoon Leaders basic course. She didnt make it because her muscles atrophied much quicker than the males in the class did. Women are just made differently than men and there is no amount of PC that can change that.

[C230K]

Its 2013 and you still think that women only belong in the kitchen? Pull your head out of your ass, women are stronger than you think. Quit belittling females or did you forget that you came out of one?

[D3UC3S]

Its 2013 and you still think that women only belong in the kitchen? Pull your head out of your ass, women are stronger than you think. Quit belittling females or did you forget that you came out of one?

Woah woah woah......i think your feeling are hurt or something. Go back and read what he said. They may have a higher pain threshold than men, mentally some are stronger, but as far as physical strength....98% of men are STRONGER. The 2% are body builders and are pretty much men anyways.

Jump off that pussy pedestal you are on and realize that he is stating an opinion based on logic and facts. Your girl sitting next to you or something? Not gonna get laid tonight if you disagree? My wife will be the first to say that im stronger and bring me a sammich at the same time. Nothing wrong with that. Women have their place in all facets of life and i respect them greatly. Just wouldn't want one to drag my half dead body out of a burning basement. We'd both die.

[BanginJimmy]

Its 2013 and you still think that women only belong in the kitchen? Pull your head out of your ass, women are stronger than you think. Quit belittling females or did you forget that you came out of one?

This is just as stupid as a Sinfix post.

[Bacon]

This is just as stupid as a Sinfix post.

Yep.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk.

[Sinfix_15]

This is just as stupid as a Sinfix post.

I dont see how this post is stupid. I echoed the thoughts of most military people ive heard speak on the matter. I nearly repeated the exact same arguments ive heard navy seals give.

[Sinfix_15]

Its 2013 and you still think that women only belong in the kitchen? Pull your head out of your ass, women are stronger than you think. Quit belittling females or did you forget that you came out of one?

...sigh...... quit being a woman.

[Bacon]

Its 2013 and you still think that women only belong in the kitchen? Pull your head out of your ass, women are stronger than you think. Quit belittling females or did you forget that you came out of one?

If this was a stab at me for my kitchen comment earlier, try harder.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk.

[§treet_§peed]

Women are always bitching about wanting equal rights and shit. I say fuck it, let them get shot at and shit too.

[C230K]

Sometimes its not all about strength, its about what you know. Skill over strength.

[D3UC3S]

Sometimes its not all about strength, its about what you know. Skill over strength.

This is true....to an extent. In the situation of combat special forces you need both and that was the original topic.


Also notable that most of Sins points trump what you are saying as well. Pro sports, special forces military, NASCAR, pro eating, etc. They just can't hang.

[Julio]

People always say woman belong in the kitchen..but some of the best chefs are male... Lol..anyways, let them do their thing.. They want too, let them..Will is the toughest shit in the universe.

[Sinfix_15]

Sometimes its not all about strength, its about what you know. Skill over strength.

I am a combat enthusiast and hear this debate often. Skill and strength over skill or strength. A man can be as skilled a women, but physically a woman cannot equal a man. This is why we separate men and women in sports and combat. We even go further and create weight classes. Skill can only overcome so much and when skill is met with equal skill and physical advantage.

Imagine the best female fighter on the planet (Ronda Rousey) fighting someone like Jose Aldo who is the same size as her. It would be an absolute obliteration even though Rousey is physically fit, way beyond that of your typical female, she is a BJJ black belt and trains at arguably the best gym in the world with several other world champions as sparring partners. Men and women are not equal. That's life. Next question.

[Sinfix_15]

People always say woman belong in the kitchen..but some of the best chefs are male... Lol..anyways, let them do their thing.. They want too, let them..Will is the toughest shit in the universe.

Men do cook better than women. we do almost everything better than women.... but we have to give them something.

[Sinfix_15]

Irony..... C230k, most women would think you're a bitch for defending them the way you do.

[Aeroscout977]

The Draft IMO is a non issue because its meaningless at this point in our history. We have more than enough troops , the draft will NEVER be used again

LOL! Has everyone forgotten 2004-2007 already? The troops were stretched thin enough as it was during those years. And that was combat in two theaters with the vast majority being support roles with TONS of civilian contract work. To think the draft will never be used again is laughable. There's was talk about reinstatement of the draft everywhere during the height of the War on Terror.


When it comes to women in combat. Try telling some of these negative statements to the ones that were apart of the initial push during OIF.

[D3UC3S]

No one ever said they could not be in combat and hold their own....They said special forces and the "all-stars" of the military would be a stretch for them. Also, it was stated that if they pass all the same physical and mental tests then by all means, do your thang girl...

All of my family that were Marines, Air force, and Army said the infantry women there were only good for getting drunk with and taking naked pictures. Plus it was the only vagina in the desert. They always got them in trouble during drills and PT. On a side note, i heard on a few occasions that they were a pretty good shot tho.

[BanginJimmy]

All of my family that were Marines, Air force, and Army said the infantry women


You family that were in the infantry were lying to you. There isnt a single woman attached to an American infantry unit. Now, they many have been attached to transport units or other support units that saw combat, but they were not infantry.


I am going to go on record right now and tell everyone that there are very very few women (percentage based) that could handle the rigors of an infantry unit in combat. It has nothing to do with will power or physical fitness or intelligence. It has everything to do with how we are made. A woman's body is naturally far less muscular than a man and will therefore expend far more energy to handle the physical aspects of marching with a full pack and extended combat maneuvers. A woman is also prone to more medical issues from the less than hygienic conditions of infantry duty in combat.

Women in the infantry? Forget about it, says female Marine officer - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite)


read that article and remember, she wasnt even an actual grunt, required to put up with the rigors of extended combat and living in the field.

[C230K]

Irony..... C230k, most women would think you're a bitch for defending them the way you do.

Whats wrong with playing the devil's advocate? ^Where exactly did you come up with this conclusion^. Its merely an opinion just like your "Worst President Ever" bumper sticker.

[D3UC3S]

You family that were in the infantry were lying to you. There isnt a single woman attached to an American infantry unit. Now, they many have been attached to transport units or other support units that saw combat, but they were not infantry.


I am going to go on record right now and tell everyone that there are very very few women (percentage based) that could handle the rigors of an infantry unit in combat. It has nothing to do with will power or physical fitness or intelligence. It has everything to do with how we are made. A woman's body is naturally far less muscular than a man and will therefore expend far more energy to handle the physical aspects of marching with a full pack and extended combat maneuvers. A woman is also prone to more medical issues from the less than hygienic conditions of infantry duty in combat.

Women in the infantry? Forget about it, says female Marine officer - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite)


read that article and remember, she wasnt even an actual grunt, required to put up with the rigors of extended combat and living in the field.



Nah they weren't lying...i have never served in the armed forces so i may have misunderstood. Im sure it was what you were saying or in basic training they were not holding their own.

[Sinfix_15]

Whats wrong with playing the devil's advocate? ^Where exactly did you come up with this conclusion^. Its merely an opinion just like your "Worst President Ever" bumper sticker.

I'm going to dig up my elaborate post from the last time we had this discussion. brb when i find it.

edit, here we go..... my response to you complaining about a guy yelling at his woman at the redbox.


Women like assholes. Women like men who act like men. You may disagree with this...... but.... you dont the vagina we're all after, as much as you might secretly wish you were born with one. This is a common known fact in society that we've all grown to accept. Why is it that way???? who fucking knows why women do what they do.... my guess is that at the base building blocks of our DNA, men were programmed to be in charge and women were programmed to seek out someone who could take care of them. In the caveman days, whoever killed the fucking lion was the caveman getting all the ass, not the sensitive one who catered to her needs and respected her feelings. It's the same way in modern society. Even though men often have very poor ways of demonstrating their masculinity, women are still attracted to masculinity. In some small subconscious way, him saying hurry up bitch and pick a movie was him killing that lion. You on the other hand...... wear locoste shirts and drive a hatchback merc........ thats why she went home with him and not you.

As a girl i dated once told me......... "if i wanted to date someone sensitive who cared about my feelings, id be a lesbian"

[D3UC3S]

Grabs popcorn and beer after watching lakers get crushed!!! HAHAHA fuck you Kobe! Congrats KG!



Fuck you guys, i need to go to sleep.

[Sinfix_15]

Grabs popcorn and beer after watching lakers get crushed!!! HAHAHA fuck you Kobe! Congrats KG!



Fuck you guys, i need to go to sleep.

Poor Kobe.... he's completing the circle of remaking Jordan's career.... but rather than signing with the Wizards, he just turned his team into the Wizards.

[D3UC3S]

I guess thats what he gets for bitching about a hurt teammate because hes so afraid he will never have another ring.

Eat it playerrrr..You are payed to play ball not to be a kardashian.

[C230K]

I'm going to dig up my elaborate post from the last time we had this discussion. brb when i find it.

edit, here we go..... my response to you complaining about a guy yelling at his woman at the redbox.

Now this is a bitch move, your like a toilet plunger you keep bringing old shit up.

[D3UC3S]

no bitch move found

Just pointing out that women like asshole, bad boy types.....thats facts son. Its something that is bred into them through millions of years of evolution. Alpha males lay the dick more

Oh, and that you are the "sensitive guy" that likes women but due to your HUGE respect of crazy bitches feelings, probably have missed out on some good puss puss a few more times than you woud have liked.

[Sinfix_15]

Now this is a bitch move, your like a toilet plunger you keep bringing old shit up.

Not bringing up old shit..... i started typing out my response and then said "hey wait a minute..... ive said this shit before".... so i just copy and pasted it.

Women like assholes. If you and i were at a bar having this conversation and i was making jokes about women being in the kitchen and you were passionately defending their emotions and equality.... you'd get a few pats on the back and i would get my dick sucked. I'll leave it up to you to decide who the victor of that argument is.

[BanginJimmy]

Im sure it was what you were saying or in basic training they were not holding their own.

I've never said anything remotely close to that. A woman can be every bit of the Marine, Marine NCO, or Marine Officer that a man can. There are physical limitations though. A woman simply does not have the same same muscle or endurance that a man has. That is simple basic fact. Its not even disputable.


This is no different than the 6-6 260lb guy wanting to be a Cobra pilot. He simply isnt going to fit in the cockpit, no matter how much be wants to or how skilled of a pilot he is.

[C230K]

no bitch move found

Just pointing out that women like asshole, bad boy types.....thats facts son. Its something that is bred into them through millions of years of evolution. Alpha males lay the dick more

Oh, and that you are the "sensitive guy" that likes women but due to your HUGE respect of crazy bitches feelings, probably have missed out on some good puss puss a few more times than you woud have liked.

Im not missing out because Im going to New Orleans for the weekend, Mardi Gras here I come :)

[Sinfix_15]

Im not missing out because Im going to New Orleans for the weekend, Mardi Gras here I come :)

Its overrated. Went to the "chocolate city" once, that was enough.

[D3UC3S]

I've never said anything remotely close to that. A woman can be every bit of the Marine, Marine NCO, or Marine Officer that a man can. There are physical limitations though. A woman simply does not have the same same muscle or endurance that a man has. That is simple basic fact. Its not even disputable.


This is no different than the 6-6 260lb guy wanting to be a Cobra pilot. He simply isnt going to fit in the cockpit, no matter how much be wants to or how skilled of a pilot he is.

Lol no you misunderstood. I was agreeing with you that there are none in the infantry. I think I misunderstood my family over the years. They were probably just talking generalizations about women over in the desert and in basic being a pain in the ass.

[D3UC3S]

Im not missing out because Im going to New Orleans for the weekend, Mardi Gras here I come :)

Cool. Tons of alcohol, no public restrooms in the french quarter. Real strip clubs next door to tranny joints, shoulder to shoulder with some fucked up motherfuckers, tittys, more alcoholnd beads. Don't wear nice shoes BC they will be blacker than the 9th ward by the time you get back to the hotel and smell like a dead animal. But it is something everyone should experience.

[BanginJimmy]

Lol no you misunderstood. I was agreeing with you that there are none in the infantry. I think I misunderstood my family over the years. They were probably just talking generalizations about women over in the desert and in basic being a pain in the ass.

It was late and I was tired. I misunderstood your post.

[BanginJimmy]

Cool. Tons of alcohol, no public restrooms in the french quarter. Real strip clubs next door to tranny joints, shoulder to shoulder with some fucked up motherfuckers, tittys, more alcoholnd beads. Don't wear nice shoes BC they will be blacker than the 9th ward by the time you get back to the hotel and smell like a dead animal. But it is something everyone should experience.

Never been, never want to. I've been to Bourbon St. a couple times off season. That was nasty enough.

I would go so far as ti say the best part of new orleans is the drive home from there.

[eraser4g63]

18 year old females should have to sign up for selective services, fair is fair.