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View Full Version : Why adding a HID kit to your car with non-projectors housing makes you a ricer.



Doppelgänger
02-04-2013, 02:56 PM
Ok, another fun rant for everyone...well, maybe not everyone. Those of who you care about "doing things right" and research your modifications before installing them, I'm not looking at you. Yes, there are correct ways to retrofit HIDs into your car that came with reflector housings. If you have done this, thank you and good job. If you have OEM projectors and have put HIDs in, then you're fine as well. The ones I am looking at, again, are those who blindly throw parts at their cars without even the basic understanding as to what they are doing. Today's focus is lighting. With the introduction of H.I.D (high intensity discharge ) or "Xenon" lighting in automotive applications, drivers have been given a better and safer way to see at night....mostly. This types of lights started out as OEM options and have slowly (well, back then) trickled their way down to the average consumer for a low price. At first, to have Xenon lighting in a car that did not come with it required getting a hold of an OEM setup, which was (and still is) very expensive. As aftermarket manufacturers saw the demand for these kits, they flooded the market with them for every automotive bulb under the sun. While a benefit to some, it has been a glaring problem to many motorists. Far too often, owners who like to modify their cars have been like horny leg-humping dogs by sticking these lights in every hole they can think of...weather they belong there or not. Not only have the applications of many of these lights been wrong, manufacturers have even gone as far as to manipulate the technology of these light to produce some of the most annoying and unusable lights ever conceived.

Let's look at a few basics.

Reflector vs projector housings..in one simple picture-

http://www.oznium.com/images/projector_headlight_explain.jpg

What is a H.I.D/Xenon bulb anyway? Well, your regular halogen bulb that has been standard for decades is nothing different in design than your typical household light bulb. It works by passing energy over a small filament which in turn causes the filament to become super heated and produce light. We should all understand how this works. Like this-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Halogen-bulb-3.jpg

In HID or Xenon lighting, a small arc of energy is passed through various gases and elements. This arc produces the light you see. It works like this-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/High_pressure_sodium_lamp.svg/640px-High_pressure_sodium_lamp.svg.png

Let's discuss the two types of light bulbs and the two types of light housings used on cars today.

Now for a general light, this really is no different other than overall light output. The HID is able to produce a brighter light with less energy. But when it comes to automotive applications, things change...a lot. Automotive lights are designed in a very specific manner in order to put light where you need it, and not put light where you don't, as in putting light on the road and not in oncoming driver's faces. The general standard for years has been a halogen bulb in a reflector housing. In this housing, bulbs have a shield built into them to help control light output. Think of it like walking though a dark room with a candle to light your way. Notice that when you do this, the glare from the candle hurts your ability to see what you are trying to light up. What do most people do? Well, instinctively most people put their hand between their eyes and the candle. This is the same concept on most halogen bulbs and is designed to only allow light into a specific part of the reflector housing. You can see it here as a little piece of metal next to the filament-

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00iBftFDNEJGcI/Car-Halogen-Bulb-H4-Rainbow-Yellow-.jpg

And this is the desired effect of all of this. The location of the filament and the shield are super critical in the design of a reflector, changing the location of the filament's location even a couple of millimeters will change every angle at which the light travels, ultimately letting light go in places it was not designed to. This is is also the exact same reason why your high-beams project light much higher and wider- because the high-beam filament is not shielded and placed in a location that causes the light to scatter in a different direction.

http://ups.mazda626.net/monthly_08_2012/post-15320-0-38451100-1344358238.png

There are many cars with projector lenses that use halogen bulbs. But the bulbs used in the projector housings do not, I repeat, do not have a shield on them. This is because the way a projector housing works, the lens (and if applicable, the shield build into the housing) does all the focusing. In some projector setups, both high and low beam patterns are available and are controlled with a movable shield. Here is an example of what I am talking about-

http://www.p-wholesale.com/upimg/9/423a1/auto-halogen-bulb-h3-clear-815.jpg

..and this is how a projector housing works-

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp234/phillipwalsworth/Headlight_projector_schematic.png


Now when it comes to HID lights, almost all of the cheap/regular kits for most all bulbs are unshielded. There are a few exceptions that have a shield operated by a solenoid, but generally speaking most, if not all of your average HID installs in reflector housings are done wrong.

You average HID bulb looks like this-

http://plasmagarage.com/images/9007_Bi-Xenon_HID_bulb.jpg

Notice the little bubble in the middle? That is where the arc is produced and where the light comes from. Notice the difference in the following picture of the location of the halogen filament vs. the location of the HID "filament". This is the root cause of why putting HIDs in reflectors is never a good idea-

http://www.miataforumz.com/attachments/nb-1998-2005-7/3726-utimate-headlights-p4060097-jpg?dateline=1329888055

Upon changing the location of the actual light source, you get massive amounts of light scatter (glare). This is what is very bad and annoying to all other drivers on the road. You are essentially blinding them as if you were driving with your high-beams on. I've heard many people exclaim "but I can see so much better with my HIDs (in reflector housings)"...and this is only true because you are scattering light all over the place. Here are some examples of what I am talking about-

Halogen in reflector-
http://dut619.com/titan/hid/stock.jpg

Halogen in projector-
http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/500/medium/halogen_cutoff.jpg

HID in reflector housing-
http://www.fl1v.org/mustang/hidglare.jpg

HID in projector-
http://www.dxhid.com/fx_r_Bi_Xenon_Hid_Xenon_Lens_Projector.jpg

http://sportsautotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/pnp-vs-retrofit-cutoff-output1.jpg

Notice all the light scatter/glare that is up higher than the "cut off" line? That is bad...very bad. I could post up numerous examples of this all day long. Even while it "might not look so bad", it is bad. Aiming your headlights down won't help any either. All aiming your lights down will do is move the focus point down, but glare will still be emitted up and out. Oncoming drivers will see this. Most people might thing your brights are on too....even though they're not. Both of the car in the following picture are equipped with traditional halogen reflector housings..but one of them had improperly installed HID lights, can you tell which one is which?

http://www.andrewwhyman.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/hidvsstandard.jpg

http://www.jimmy540i.com/ebay/1098xenon1.jpg

See how bad that is? Sadly, none of the people doing this actually care they are blinding other drivers...nor do they really listen to those who care to inform them politely.


Lastly, we have color. For whatever reason that I may never understand, people seem to love the blue/pink/purple lights too. They think it looks "cool" or that they can see better with it. In fact, no matter what the reasoning is, they are 100% dead wrong. HID lights, as many know, are offered in different "K" ratings. This is for Kelvin. The Kelvin range describes light at different frequencies. Here is a simple way to understand Kelvin (K) and light output-

http://www.tunerdomes.com/images/kelvin00.jpg

In reality, anything above 5K is really not any more helpful or useful to the human eye. In fact, the lower the Kelvin rating, the "better" it is for your eyes. Natural sun light is actually pretty yellow. Regular halogen light is also on the yellow scale. The human eye likes this and is why we can see the colors we see. Notice with a blue or red light how everything looks a single color? This is the same for HID lights in the 8K+ range. Your eye does not like the frequency and takes much longer to adjust as well as a severe loss of detail when looking at something. This is actually why police lights are blue...because they're VERY attention getting and police want you to see their blue lights from as far away as possible...so you know they're there. Blue/purple/pink headlights are terrible for your eyes. I could actually give much more detailed information as to why, but I don't need to be that technical right now. Just know, and please understand why all of this is so bad.



TL;DR? Just read this:


If you put HIDs in your car and they don't look almost exactly like this-
http://blog.onexhid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/onex-hid-cutoff-line-step-6.jpg

Then you are doing it wrong and irritating everyone driving down the road at night.

If your lights looks like this..regardless of the HID in reflector housing...

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m633/Michael_Vue/IMG_0107.jpg

http://people.duke.edu/~ahd4/hid3.jpg

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1py331eAmS0GMS5JSEIWX-KWfEsYyUiXE6QR47bjNp-3RpYlqRZAE2GgWPFmU6sXapgdTKcESs1GPcwjhmMG95XQ/25k.jpg

...you are a complete and useless ricer who shouldn't be allowed to own a car.



Finally, if you want to read a very in-depth article about HID vs halogen and light spectrum, here is a great article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1771460/

91LudeSiT
02-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Stop sitting behind me at night blinding me with your ricer glare assholes. Trucks are the worst...

It's funny that my hella e-codes with a standard h4 bulb are much brighter then most of the hid's in halogen housings I've seen.

-EnVus-
02-04-2013, 04:56 PM
I did my Install on my wife's car today so she could see the road better since one of our SILVERSTAR blew finally. The kit was from a respectable company and has a Shield around the bulb itself and the beam is stays pretty well within its own not all over the place. I did not want to look ricey and also tried to keep the most light without going with a yellow hue that said I got 6k. Guess if none of this matters then you can still call me a ricer...

ssonsk
02-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Awesome post man!
I didn't know this, and it explains a lot.

E36slide
02-04-2013, 06:40 PM
Hmm nice post. I too also bought a cheap hid kit, but have projectors. Sadly ive seen the kit in my friends silvia projectors and it wasn't bright at all so im glad I wont be adding to the annoyance lol

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2

1nicewgn
02-04-2013, 07:15 PM
I'm a ricer too. The only aftermarket headlights out for my wagon is black depos that are not retrofitted. I've got my stock units that I'm planning to retrofit this spring with a set of morimotos projectors but until then I'm riding dirty...

Doppelgänger
02-05-2013, 06:29 AM
I did my Install on my wife's car today so she could see the road better since one of our SILVERSTAR blew finally. The kit was from a respectable company and has a Shield around the bulb itself and the beam is stays pretty well within its own not all over the place. I did not want to look ricey and also tried to keep the most light without going with a yellow hue that said I got 6k. Guess if none of this matters then you can still call me a ricer...

Well it depends, there are a few kits out there with shields and better arc placement. I'd be curious to see the beam pattern on a wall from like 40ft back. But like I said at the beginning of the OP, if you're someone who cares to do things the correct way then you can do just about anything. Here is a good write-up I found of a guy using HIDs in reflectors...but done right...something 99.9% of those installing HIDs wouldn't think to do.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1666574


There are some exceptions to all of this, but my original post is "generally speaking". The only thing that really is bad all around is the stupid colored lights.

On_Her_Face
02-05-2013, 06:32 PM
All I know is I use my OEM headlights with projectors (they work good for me and others on the road) and they use red lights in submarines because your eyes adjust faster back to "night vision". At one point in my life I did want yellow fog lights in my 07 C6 :lmfao:

Good write up and I did take away some useful information from it. +1 if possible.

Doppelgänger
02-07-2013, 10:50 AM
Glad to hear. If even one person reads this and decides to not do it, or do it right, then this thread has served a purpose. I'd love to see cops start cracking down and fucking with all the retards who have blue/purple/pink lights...

From now on, every time I talk to an officer, I'll remind them of OCGA 40-3-34 that was passed in 2010 declaring any color outside of OEM is a ticket-able violation lol

91LudeSiT
02-07-2013, 07:14 PM
You mean the one that deals with title transfers?

http://statutes.laws.com/georgia/title-40/chapter-3/article-2/40-3-34

Doppelgänger
02-08-2013, 01:07 PM
Whoops,

O.C.G.A. 40-8-34 (2010)
40-8-34. Color in lighting equipment


The color in all lighting equipment covered in this title shall be in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Standard J578, April, 1965, as thereafter revised or amended.

jR1_kS14
02-08-2013, 02:55 PM
i can't see much in the rain with halogens and rain X on my windshield. then again i drive an s13.

i'm going to get some J30 projectors and try to retro fit with HID's.

i'm hoping my result is this-

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6585/dsc06226z.jpg

Doppelgänger
02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
And exactly what is your setup now?

Just don't do that blue bullshit light....you will see even less than you can now...and be a distraction to other drivers.

91LudeSiT
02-08-2013, 08:11 PM
Whoops,

O.C.G.A. 40-8-34 (2010)
40-8-34. Color in lighting equipment


The color in all lighting equipment covered in this title shall be in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Standard J578, April, 1965, as thereafter revised or amended.

Wouldn't this make OEM Hids illegal? Not that I care since I rock halogens.

C230K
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Glad to hear. If even one person reads this and decides to not do it, or do it right, then this thread has served a purpose. I'd love to see cops start cracking down and fucking with all the retards who have blue/purple/pink lights...

From now on, every time I talk to an officer, I'll remind them of OCGA 40-3-34 that was passed in 2010 declaring any color outside of OEM is a ticket-able violation lol

What if its hyper white?

Doppelgänger
02-09-2013, 02:02 PM
So how would you describe "hyper" white? (God I have not heaqrd that term in years....back when HIDs were super expensive and everyone had those bulbs that almost looked blue...and were really expensive and burned out in like 2 months lol)


Lude- Look at those very important words after the date "1965" in the description.

jR1_kS14
02-10-2013, 02:52 AM
And exactly what is your setup now?

Just don't do that blue bullshit light....you will see even less than you can now...and be a distraction to other drivers.

Stock setup. It's more so the fact that a halogen light isn't penetrating through fog/rain/climate weather. the discharge on the HID is much better. Huge difference in being able to see in rain/fog. i'm doing white. the same color as what luxury vehicles have.

Elbow
02-10-2013, 07:35 AM
I'm going to start throwing items out of my window and smashing up passing cars with ricer lights.

Even my girlfriend starts placing bets on what riced out car is coming at us when she sees the explosion of soy sauce heading our way at night.

SmackedInATL
02-10-2013, 08:37 AM
I was on 285 riding from 41 rd to atlanta rd and there was this white GTI with HIDs so blinding it was ridiculous. This tool ended up pulling over for some unknown reason and immediately shut his lights off.

-EnVus-
02-11-2013, 02:34 AM
I have yet to be flashed even once so guess mine are legit it seems. Also unless its raining bad I don't use headlights in day light that's just rice mode engaged.

91LudeSiT
02-19-2013, 11:26 AM
I have yet to be flashed even once so guess mine are legit it seems. Also unless its raining bad I don't use headlights in day light that's just rice mode engaged.

I usually don't flash people with hid glare because I'm pretty sure that they are morons and wouldn't know why I was flashing them. Most of the time assholes in trucks with hids sit right behind me at stoplights and blind me so they can't be flashed.

tnomud
02-19-2013, 12:28 PM
good post

Sil'vr-Boi6
02-19-2013, 03:17 PM
Very well put,sir. HIDs should never be installed without a projector housing. Its like getting a new suspension(springs or coilovers) setup without ever wanting/or ever considering to do an alignment,ever. Why install an upgraded component and half a$$ it. Do it entirely.

Doppelgänger
02-25-2013, 08:56 AM
...yet there are masses of people out there who keep swearing that they don't blind people, are not a problem to other drivers and swear they can see better. My favorites are the ones who think 8k and high colors are a good choice too. Silly people.

Captain-Obvious™
02-25-2013, 09:19 AM
Here in Statesboro the real problem is lifted trucks with HID head and fog lights. When I'm driving down a dark two lane road and one of those is coming at me it's pretty dangerous.

.blank cd
02-25-2013, 09:29 AM
I have a cutoff pattern with HIDs and no projectors :D

Doppelgänger
02-25-2013, 09:58 AM
So what are the details on your setup and do you have any pics of the light pattern? It could be helpful information to others reading this :)

.blank cd
02-25-2013, 11:03 AM
So what are the details on your setup and do you have any pics of the light pattern? It could be helpful information to others reading this :)

2012 Civic SI with aftermarket 4500k shielded HIDs. The headlights have never been unbolted so they're still in factory alignment. I could take a pic of the cutoff now, but I don't have a pic with the halogens to compare it to, but the cutoff is exactly the same as stock with halogens, and its clearer compared to other cars with stock reflector HIDs (early IS300s, early Maximas and Infiniti I's).

Doppelgänger
02-25-2013, 12:48 PM
I patiently await pics of the installation/pattern. I'm sure someone will find that helpful in the future.

.blank cd
02-25-2013, 02:55 PM
Here's a couple things about HIDs. Most of the time when you see brilliant blinding HIDs, it's because of this...

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/4547628.jpg

Fluted headlight lenses. This is on just about everything with popup headlights (240s, miatas, corvettes) and a lot of cars older than 2000. That's your run of the mill EGs and DAs, anything with a replaceable square headlight. Fluted lenses are designed to scatter light, since halogen bulb technology was pretty shitty 20 years ago.

Second, a good portion of these tuner cars are 10-15-20 years old, they have saggy body parts, most of them have been in accidents, so very few of them have properly lined up headlights. All it takes is for the core/radiator support to be moved just a bit to throw the alignment.

Then you have trucks. All of them sit higher than cars, some much higher, and that all puts their headlight beam directly in your line of sight, rather than towards the road.

That about covers most of the culprits.

RandomGuy
02-26-2013, 01:40 AM
Wow nice writeup, Mike.
I didn't know this- pretty interesting.

http://sighroll.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/themoreyouknow.jpg

-EnVus-
02-26-2013, 04:02 AM
2012 Civic SI with aftermarket 4500k shielded HIDs. The headlights have never been unbolted so they're still in factory alignment. I could take a pic of the cutoff now, but I don't have a pic with the halogens to compare it to, but the cutoff is exactly the same as stock with halogens, and its clearer compared to other cars with stock reflector HIDs (early IS300s, early Maximas and Infiniti I's).
Dittio


I patiently await pics of the installation/pattern. I'm sure someone will find that helpful in the future.
I drove home and passed my with with her HID and It didnt look any worse then most bright light cars but didn't even remotely blind me.
I will try to to get a Beam pattern picture tomorrow and post it.

Doppelgänger
02-26-2013, 07:20 AM
Honestly, I see plenty of reflector housing lights with clear lenses that are just as bad as the fluted lens headlights. Though I agree that the fluted lights are atrocious when HIDs are added to them.

Plenty of newer cars like Civics, 1st gen RSX, Charger/300, Scions, earlier 350z, WRX/STi, Accords, Altima, Camaro...among others, have clear lens lights that are pretty bad about glare from adding HIDs. This is why I am really curious to see a shot of your lights against a wall at night.

.blank cd
02-26-2013, 09:44 AM
Here's the best I could do...

http://i.imgur.com/1PNDg6Al.jpg

Ch0psticks11
02-26-2013, 10:02 AM
^^ that's not bad compared to other HID setups i've seen. were the bulbs that you got already shielded or did you have to custom make the shield for it? if you bought them like that, where did you get them from?

.blank cd
02-26-2013, 10:12 AM
^^ that's not bad compared to other HID setups i've seen. were the bulbs that you got already shielded or did you have to custom make the shield for it? if you bought them like that, where did you get them from?

The pic kinda exaggerates the brightness a little, plus I think my fogs were on too. They already had a little shield on em, I kinda made it a little bigger. A friend of mine got em for me and I have no idea where he got em.

Ch0psticks11
02-26-2013, 03:06 PM
gotcha, that's cool. looks good though

Doppelgänger
02-26-2013, 03:26 PM
Doesn't look that bad, but I'd like to see what they look like in a completely dark environment, seems there is a lot of light pollution in there. Looks like a lot of a hotspot in the middle without much lateral spread.

§treet_§peed
02-27-2013, 06:46 AM
I had HIDS on my civic with reflectors. But I never blinded anyone. Or so I was told from people I knew and drove behind on the way to and from meets.

§treet_§peed
02-27-2013, 06:48 AM
try meeting a person with scratched headlight lenses with HIDs lol.

§treet_§peed
02-27-2013, 06:49 AM
I had clear lenses and 6000k HID's btw.

-EnVus-
02-27-2013, 06:34 PM
Yeah I looked up google key word Bad HID reflector housing and well my has glare but not an extreme cause the bulb shield it on Top. I am looking currently for a cheap budget build for Retrofit..

Doppelgänger
03-07-2013, 03:03 PM
So does this not make the car with improper HIDs obvious? I love the people who have this and are like "they don't blind anyone" :facepalm:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l281/teamFBG/IMG_16341_zpsbd1480cc.jpg

.blank cd
03-07-2013, 07:54 PM
So does this not make the car with improper HIDs obvious? I love the people who have this and are like "they don't blind anyone" :facepalm:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l281/teamFBG/IMG_16341_zpsbd1480cc.jpg

That guys lights are horrible. Probably running through a fluted lens. Mine are nowhere even close to that bright head on.

-EnVus-
03-07-2013, 09:38 PM
That guys lights are horrible. Probably running through a fluted lens. Mine are nowhere even close to that bright head on.
That and looks like a 55W kit cause it must be 6k and mine are no where that bright neither

Elbow
03-08-2013, 05:21 AM
I see people with lights like that all the time that bright, you guys have them, you're just trying to justify your actions. ;) lol

I don't see why people aren't pulled over for that more frequently.

Doppelgänger
03-08-2013, 07:55 AM
That guys lights are horrible. Probably running through a fluted lens. Mine are nowhere even close to that bright head on.


IIRC it was a newer 4-door civic, which do not have such lenses.



That and looks like a 55W kit cause it must be 6k and mine are no where that bright neither

It's easily 8k. 6k is not anywhere close to being that blue. I have 6k in my lights and it's nothing like that as you can see.

.blank cd
03-08-2013, 08:03 AM
Then it was definitely a really high wattage kit and 8000k lights. If you looked at a bone stock 1st gen IS300 head on, my lights look exactly the same, just a slight difference on the color.

-EnVus-
05-02-2013, 11:11 PM
Had a damn 2000 model Mustang with some HIDs behind me tonight and i couldn't see anything but glare around. I Then myself was riding behind my sister at one who said anytime i was within 10 feet she was blinded. I now have come to the conclusion I wish i had at least got a high/low kit so i could change the beam when around others or passing others. I feel like such a douche when others flash and I can't dim mine cause its single beam Ugh!