500hp+FWD+ Roadcourse= Non competitive

[ssonsk]

Ok I was at work looking at a magazine and it featured a 560whp civic hatch in it. So I gots to talking to my coworkers about it, and I brought up how a 500hp fwd car is pretty useles. Once I said that they instantly dissagreed. So then I brought up that if you were to track a 500whp+ fwd car against the same car class rwd car that the fwd wouldn't be able to hang.

What do you guys think

Do you think a 500whp+ fwd car would be able to hang in a competitive class?


Hell no :lmfao:

[Theycall_Metue]

there are many things to consider. suspension set, tire set up, weight reduction? street car or drag car/sometime street car? so much things to consider when your comparing a fwd and a rwd making the same horse down the strip.
a gutted 500fwd hatch with the whole nine yard vs a 500 rwd mustang with full interior and the whole nine yard. the civic > mustang.

[Sil'vr-Boi6]

+1.....^ definately agree. weight reduction, suspension and many others variables come to play. Take for example the 101 Motorsports CRX"The might mouse". it competed in 2012 WTAC FWD class and took champion chip honors 1:35:1. It was reported that it weighs 1500-1700lbs 280hp. Here: GIANT KILLER: THE MIGHTYMOUSE CR-X - Speedhunters (http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/12/giant-killer-the-mighty-mouse-crx/)

As you might remember 2012 featured a spectrum of sportcars boasting new aerodynamic technology and suspension components think Nemo Evo (1:27). If you look at the top 10 finishers at the 2012 WTAC Challenge. There were 6 AWD cars; Two evos dominating the field followed by (4) RWD makes and a few more awd contenders. I can't tell you were a 500 hp FWD crx or rather any FWD car fits among those sports cars I mentioned above mind you their sub 1:33 secons, but the mighty max ran the same ring with 280hp in 1:35. Not bad for a FWD at all. I think 500hp FWD can exceed a RWD, power to power - it just depends on how advance your aerodynamic program is and how deep your pocket are.

[David88vert]

Anything can be done with enough resources; however, since you stated "class" and "roadcourse", let me answer this way. Why do they have FWD classes? Generally, it's because the FWD cars are not able to be competitive against RWD cars when they have the same regulations, such as chassis weight, engine displacement, etc. Open/Unlimited classes are dominated by RWD and AWD, and its rare that a FWD is even entered or able to qualify (usually 107-110% of pole).

[Elbow]

To answer the basic question, no, a FWD car would lose if equally prepared to a RWD car.

Can a FWD car with 500+whp be made to beat a RWD car with 500+whp? Sure. But it's just wasting money in my opinion.

In my experience FWD is not a handicap until you start putting some real power down, then you start having drivetrain wars.


Anything can be done with enough resources; however, since you stated "class" and "roadcourse", let me answer this way. Why do they have FWD classes? Generally, it's because the FWD cars are not able to be competitive against RWD cars when they have the same regulations, such as chassis weight, engine displacement, etc. Open/Unlimited classes are dominated by RWD and AWD, and its rare that a FWD is even entered or able to qualify (usually 107-110% of pole).

Road racing doesn't (where I've seen) have FWD classes, only time attack, not even time trials. I differentiate time trials and time attack because time attack is typically mAd tyGht JDM stuff versus just race cars going for a fast time, not nearly as many wings.

In fact, most open road race classes rarely have any entries. It's not fun blowing loads of cash just to win against yourself. :crazy:

[ssonsk]

+1.....^ definately agree. weight reduction, suspension and many others variables come to play. Take for example the 101 Motorsports CRX"The might mouse". it competed in 2012 WTAC FWD class and took champion chip honors 1:35:1. It was reported that it weighs 1500-1700lbs 280hp. Here: GIANT KILLER: THE MIGHTYMOUSE CR-X - Speedhunters (http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/12/giant-killer-the-mighty-mouse-crx/)

As you might remember 2012 featured a spectrum of sportcars boasting new aerodynamic technology and suspension components think Nemo Evo (1:27). If you look at the top 10 finishers at the 2012 WTAC Challenge. There were 6 AWD cars; Two evos dominating the field followed by (4) RWD makes and a few more awd contenders. I can't tell you were a 500 hp FWD crx or rather any FWD car fits among those sports cars I mentioned above mind you their sub 1:33 secons, but the mighty max ran the same ring with 280hp in 1:35. Not bad for a FWD at all. I think 500hp FWD can exceed a RWD, power to power - it just depends on how advance your aerodynamic program is and how deep your pocket are.
that's what i'm saying. FWD can hang if it's racing in a light weight low power class, but if it's in a 500hp+ class then it's just going to be struggling around the course getting lapped.
UOTE=David88vert;39482339]Anything can be done with enough resources; however, since you stated "class" and "roadcourse", let me answer this way. Why do they have FWD classes? Generally, it's because the FWD cars are not able to be competitive against RWD cars when they have the same regulations, such as chassis weight, engine displacement, etc. Open/Unlimited classes are dominated by RWD and AWD, and its rare that a FWD is even entered or able to qualify (usually 107-110% of pole).[/QUOTE]


To answer the basic question, no, a FWD car would lose if equally prepared to a RWD car.

Can a FWD car with 500+whp be made to beat a RWD car with 500+whp? Sure. But it's just wasting money in my opinion.

In my experience FWD is not a handicap until you start putting some real power down, then you start having drivetrain wars.



Road racing doesn't (where I've seen) have FWD classes, only time attack, not even time trials. I differentiate time trials and time attack because time attack is typically mAd tyGht JDM stuff versus just race cars going for a fast time, not nearly as many wings.

In fact, most open road race classes rarely have any entries. It's not fun blowing loads of cash just to win against yourself. :crazy:

You guys know exactly what i'm talking about.

FWD would struggle in a high hp roadcourse event. It could probably hang on the drag strip though.

[Elbow]

Or if you spent a million bucks on it and did this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/3586833477_4028042048_b.jpg

[David88vert]

Road racing doesn't (where I've seen) have FWD classes, only time attack, not even time trials. I differentiate time trials and time attack because time attack is typically mAd tyGht JDM stuff versus just race cars going for a fast time, not nearly as many wings.

In fact, most open road race classes rarely have any entries. It's not fun blowing loads of cash just to win against yourself. :crazy:

Aren't these FWD only?
SCCA RallyCross (not really road racing though)
SCCA ST FWD
SCCA Solo II RTF(Road Tire Front Wheel Drive)


The only class that I can think of where FWD has successful ran against RWD recently is Pirelli SCCA Pro Racing World Challenge GTS:
Pirelli World Challenge (http://www.world-challenge.com/)

I know that BMW RWD power took Grand-Am/Continental ST last year, and FWD really isn't too much of a threat there.

[ssonsk]

Or if you spent a million bucks on it and did this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/3586833477_4028042048_b.jpg

That's just silly

[Elbow]

Aren't these FWD only?
SCCA RallyCross (not really road racing though)
SCCA ST FWD
SCCA Solo II RTF(Road Tire Front Wheel Drive)


The only class that I can think of where FWD has successful ran against RWD recently is Pirelli SCCA Pro Racing World Challenge GTS:
Pirelli World Challenge (http://www.world-challenge.com/)

I know that BMW RWD power took Grand-Am/Continental ST last year, and FWD really isn't too much of a threat there.

Those aren't road racing classes.

A Mazdaspeed 3 won the Continental ST class championship in 2012, BMW won constructors by only a few points though. So FWD is definitely still a very strong force there. Honda, Kia, and Volkswagen finished the constructors championship ahead of the next RWD manufacturer; Porsche.

In the WTCC Chevy beat BMW by quite a bit in the Cruz.

As you said, Realtime still does well in WC in GTS.

Obviously these series are real series with real rules that equalize cars, I'd say CTSCC is probably the most "street" type racing in professional racing aside from TC in WC.

[Elbow]

...and as you can see, the BMW and Mazda in Conti are very similar rule prep wise:

Mazda
Final Drive: 4.187 3.526
Fuel capacity: 20
Weight 2800:
Tire size: 225/45/17.
Maximum RPM 6500
Maximum boost 2000 MBAR Absolute
Must use 40mm air inlet restrictor as supplied.

BMW
Final Drive: 3.73:1
Fuel capacity: 18
Weight: 2825
Tire size 225/45/17
Maximum RPM 6950
Must use 61 mm flat plate throttle restrictor (team supplied) Contact Grand-Am for drawing and instructions.