E36+Nelson combine to form the (Official) Epic douchebag thread. WARNING!

[Catnip]

LOL. Comical.

[nelson9995]

LOL. Comical.

you have no choice but to laugh
you have nothing that is factual to add other than

"the lsx will win because its badass"
lol

[Catnip]

you have no choice but to laugh
you have nothing that is factual to add other than

"the lsx will win because its badass"
lol

Where are your supporting facts that a SR needs race gas over 450whp? I just found 5 dynos of 600whp+ on pump gas from SRs.


YOU have no facts, logic, or penis.

[nelson9995]

Post them. Please post where it states 93 octane (has to be legit)

I will paypal you $10
and tell sinfix to come run me
I'll paypal you $500 is he wins
im on pupmgas with a stock head btw

[nelson9995]

YOU have no facts, logic, or penis.

obviously at least 2 more inches than you 5 1/5 inch cock LMAO

[David88vert]

Again you prove my point.
That is why a rb26/ka24.rb25 will make more power than a sr20 lol
once a sr20 hits 450whp it needs race gas? Why is that?
do you guys not see?

When all 4 motors are built and heads are ported/machined, the sr20 HAS NO FLOW ADVANTAGE. neither does it stock except with the ka

You've never built an engine nor tuned one, that's obvious.

Race gas has higher octane and is used to allow the tuner to run higher compression. You could just install lower compression pistons and tune on lower octane fuel or convert to e85.

[nelson9995]

Also post a 500+whp sr with a stock head ad 93 oct?
dont worry ill wait

[Catnip]

Post them. Please post where it states 93 octane (has to be legit)

I will paypal you $10
and tell sinfix to come run me
I'll paypal you $500 is he wins
im on pupmgas with a stock head btw

E85 is pump gas, stupid motherfucker.

I don't have to post them because I feel you're at least capable to search 650whp SR20 E85.

You may even stumble upon the ones with stock sleeve SR20s.

Enjoy being stupid, because I'm done trying to convey logic to someone incapable of such.

[nelson9995]

You've never built an engine nor tuned one, that's obvious.

Race gas has higher octane and is used to allow the tuner to run higher compression. You could just install lower compression pistons and tune on lower octane fuel or convert to e85.

lower compression=less power per psi/more lag
So the motor that maxes out on 500whp on pump gas will make more power than the one that can make 600whp on pump gas with the same compression?
hmm

in that case lets all build 1.4l motors and forget swapping bigger more efficient motors

[nelson9995]

Ive built an all motor gsr by hand in my garage that made 208whp (stock bore)

Also the ka24 you hear me talking about. (not built by me)
all parts, specs, and all were chosen by me.

[nelson9995]

E85 is pump gas, stupid motherfucker.

I don't have to post them because I feel you're at least capable to search 650whp SR20 E85.

You may even stumble upon the ones with stock sleeve SR20s.

Enjoy being stupid, because I'm done trying to convey logic to someone incapable of such.

lmao @ e85 being counted as pump gas.
You clearly now everyone means 93 oct.
again trying to make me sound dumb by twisting my words
GTFO already you showed you have no knowledge of any of the 4 nissan motors being discussed
now paypal me my $10 lol

[Catnip]

lmao @ e85 being counted as pump gas.
You clearly now everyone means 93 oct.
again trying to make me sound dumb by twisting my words
GTFO already you showed you have no knowledge of any of the 4 nissan motors being discussed
now paypal me my $10 lol

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/uploadedImages/News/Chicago/Images/Science/ethanol3-web.jpg

I photoshopped this to twist your words.


Can't tell if troll or woman.

[David88vert]

lower compression=less power per psi/more lag
So the motor that maxes out on 500whp on pump gas will make more power than the one that can make 600whp on pump gas with the same compression?
hmm

in that case lets all build 1.4l motors and forget swapping bigger more efficient motors

You just don't get it or you don't want to.
Lower compression by removing piston compression then increase boost to increase the compression back up but produce more power output.

My 1.3L made 618rwhp. I know of 1.1Ls making over 650rwhp. Anything can be done.

[nelson9995]

so if a sr20 makes 600whp on pump gas
a ka24.rb25/26 will make 800whp on pump gas
sorry guys

[nelson9995]

You just don't get it or you don't want to.
Lower compression by removing piston compression then increase boost to increase the compression back up but produce more power output.

My 1.3L made 618rwhp. I know of 1.1Ls making over 650rwhp. Anything can be done.

rotaries? or piston motors?

you dont see my point.

Sure a 1.3 can make 618whp 30k later
a rb26 will make that with rods and pistons, turbo, and injectors nothing else
see my point?

[David88vert]

so if a sr20 makes 600whp on pump gas
a ka24.rb25/26 will make 800whp on pump gas
sorry guys

You are so hung up on trying to be right that you are unable to lea rn how something works. Its really sad.

Its not that what you are saying is untrue, it is that you have no idea on how it works and cannot state your positions in a proveable way.

[nelson9995]

Finally you admit what I a, saying is factual.
I know why it works and why it makes the power. No explanation needed David.
In this case We were discussing 4 motors specifically.
What you explained is the reason why my statements are facts.
My statements have also been proved..

I know a b16 will make more power than a b20. Size isn't all.
But, when motors are pretty much equivalent, size is all.
Example, b16, b20vtec
Example, sr20, ka24, rb25/26
Why do the rb20 and sr20 make around the same power levels usually?
Why does noone care about the ca18?

That was my point that is all. It wasn't meant to be dragged like it did.
Look at my original argument and you see I am stating the truth.

[David88vert]

rotaries? or piston motors?

you dont see my point.

Sure a 1.3 can make 618whp 30k later
a rb26 will make that with rods and pistons, turbo, and injectors nothing else
see my point?

No one sees your point as you are unable to state it in any logical way.

Here is fact. Volumetric efficiency is the only comparision that you need to make between the two engines. Either you understand that or you are over your head in this discussion.

I'm done with this and going to bed

[nelson9995]

No one sees your point as you are unable to state it in any logical way.

Here is fact. Volumetric efficiency is the only comparision that you need to make between the two engines. Either you understand that or you are over your head in this discussion.

I'm done with this and going to bed

I understand that.
Thank you for proving that my statements are not wrong or ignorant
Research the power these motors make with what turbos, builds, and gas and you will also notice what I am saying.
Goodnight
Im out

[Sinfix_15]

I was deff let down I thought I was going to get my ass handed to me :( oh well.

Better luck next time sinfix

Like i said.... i was honestly happy that you joined the thread. Talking to you is easier than talking to Nelson.

[Sinfix_15]

so guys, i actually saw Nelson's KA today and i have to admit....... it did have crazy torque... i guess i stand corrected. There's no way an SR20 could have got in and out of traffic like he was.....























http://imcdb.org/i082757.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

ImportAtlanta has a new village idiot..... his name is Nelson

[Sinfix_15]

I understand that.
Thank you for proving that my statements are not wrong or ignorant
Research the power these motors make with what turbos, builds, and gas and you will also notice what I am saying.
Goodnight
Im out

Nobody sees what youre saying. Everyone thinks you're a moron. Every person who has came into this thread has said you were a moron.

[Catnip]

What do you think Sinfix, troll or woman?

[Sinfix_15]

What do you think Sinfix, troll or woman?

I wish he was trolling.... but unfortunately.... he's probably sitting at home right now thinking everyone else is an idiot and not himself. Literally every single person who has entered this thread has called him a moron.

[nelson9995]

nothing else to discuss.

/thread

[Sinfix_15]

nothing else to discuss.

/thread

You're right, nothing left to discuss, we all agree that you're a moron.

[jR1_kS14]

apples to oranges...

[E36slide]

Looks like y'all are having a google war up in here lol

Are we still stuck on what motor makes the most power ?

It's pretty easy to grasp that bigger the motor the more power its capable of (depending who built it) this doesn't include rotaries as they are a freak of nature to be able to put out 700+ hp.

I don't see why y'all are arguing? There might be a faster sr motor then a rb25/26 or 1j/2j; but I'm sure it would be much easier to build one of the other motors to run the same or better 1/4 times as the fastest sr did. It's all about suspension setup, reaction times, and the driver at the end of the day. Just because it has 1600whp doesn't mean something with 800whp hooking up can't beat it.


I'm to drunk to taste my chicken /thread

[Doppelgänger]

Hahah. I'm not going to read all 14 pages of this shit, but with some very light skimming, I got a good laugh from Nelson's "facts" and statements. I'm sure this will make for a good read later. Of course, this is with my general understanding of engines, and what I know...I am no professional engine builder or hot-shot tuner...but still....one doesn't have to be to see the shit spewing out on Nelson's posts.

[nelson9995]

Looks like y'all are having a google war up in here lol


Are we still stuck on what motor makes the most power ?

It's pretty easy to grasp that bigger the motor the more power its capable of (depending who built it) this doesn't include rotaries as they are a freak of nature to be able to put out 700+ hp.

I don't see why y'all are arguing? There might be a faster sr motor then a rb25/26 or 1j/2j; but I'm sure it would be much easier to build one of the other motors to run the same or better 1/4 times as the fastest sr did. It's all about suspension setup, reaction times, and the driver at the end of the day. Just because it has 1600whp doesn't mean something with 800whp hooking up can't beat it.

I'm to drunk to taste my chicken /thread

This is what i havd been repeating over n over. Idk if im talking chinese to these people or what lol

[nelson9995]

This is what i havd been repeating over n over. Idk if im talking chinese to these people or what lol
I guess the size of the motor is irrelevant tho. That seems to be the smallest variable.

[Sinfix_15]

I guess the size of the motor is irrelevant tho. That seems to be the smallest variable.

You lack the mental capacity to have a serious debate on this topic. You simply do not understand anything. You're redistributing something you've heard or read, you have no experience or understanding. I feel like i'm speaking French to a 7 year old Japanese kid.

You're stuck on this issue of torque..... at what point did torque become the end all of racing? My Harley has more TQ and HP than my CBR.... even weighs about the same.... Do you think putting my Harley engine in my CBR would make it faster?

A motorcycle has hardly any torque at all, yet every motorcycle on the market runs 10s off the show room floor. Why do you think that is? Obvious answer right? the weight difference. Ok, i've already attempted to explain to you the difference between torque and hp, torque is the ability to move weight.... in common terms, and hp is the ability to accelerate weight in motion. The amount of torque you need depends on the weight of the vehicle. There's no concrete evidence that suggest more torque = faster. You reach a point where enough torque is enough torque... having more of it just doesnt matter. It can even become a burden.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and let this topic die. I dont even care kid. I will probably never touch another SR20 again in my lifetime......

[nelson9995]

Ideal volumetric efficiency

V_ideal = D*N/2

d= displacement
n= engine speed in rpm

so again

(ka24) 2389*7/2= 8,361.5
(rb25) 2498*8/2=9,992
(rb26) 2568*8/2=10,272
(sr20) 1998*8/2=7,992


So In order, the ideal volumetric effiency goes from sr20, ka24, rb25, rb26 (low to high)
Does this not also show that displacement is a huge factor?


Hope I used enough proof this time.

[nelson9995]

You lack the mental capacity to have a serious debate on this topic. You simply do not understand anything. You're redistributing something you've heard or read, you have no experience of understanding. I feel like i'm speaking French to a 7 year old Japanese kid.

You're stuck on this issue of torque..... at what point did torque become the end all of racing? My Harley has more TQ and HP than my CBR.... even weighs about the same.... Do you think putting my Harley engine in my CBR would make it faster?

A motorcycle has hardly any torque at all, yet every motorcycle on the market runs 10s off the show room floor. Why do you think that is? Obvious answer right? the weight difference. Ok, i've already attempted to explain to you the difference between torque and hp, torque is the ability to move weight.... in common terms, and hp is the ability to accelerate weight in motion. The amount of torque you need depends on the weight of the vehicle. There's no concrete evidence that suggest more torque = faster. You reach a point where enough torque is enough torque... having more of it just doesnt matter. It can even become a burden.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and let this topic die. I dont even care kid. I will probably never touch another SR20 again in my lifetime......

I completely understand that tq is not everything but it definately plays a factor with equal cars. Don't try to act like it's a non factor.

[Sinfix_15]

I completely understand that tq is not everything but it definately plays a factor with equal cars. Don't try to act like it's a non factor.

I'm beginning to wonder if you completely understand anything..... at all.

[nelson9995]

Ideal volumetric efficiency

V_ideal = D*N/2

d= displacement
n= engine speed in rpm

so again

(ka24) 2389*7/2= 8,361.5
(rb25) 2498*8/2=9,992
(rb26) 2568*8/2=10,272
(sr20) 1998*8/2=7,992


So In order, the ideal volumetric effiency goes from sr20, ka24, rb25, rb26 (low to high)
Does this not also show that displacement is a huge factor?
Doesn't it also show that the other 3 motors will make more power with the same amount of work/money?

sinfix- please elaborate

[Sinfix_15]

Ideal volumetric efficiency

V_ideal = D*N/2

d= displacement
n= engine speed in rpm

so again

(ka24) 2389*7/2= 8,361.5
(rb25) 2498*8/2=9,992
(rb26) 2568*8/2=10,272
(sr20) 1998*8/2=7,992


So In order, the ideal volumetric effiency goes from sr20, ka24, rb25, rb26 (low to high)
Does this not also show that displacement is a huge factor?
Doesn't it also show that the other 3 motors will make more power with the same amount of work/money?

sinfix- please elaborate

Ok, so David mentions something and you go and google it attempting to sound intelligent. You've managed again to make yourself look even dumber.


Please kid, for the love of god quit embarrassing yourself. You lack the mental capacity to debate this topic...... move on. Do you not understand how stupid your little math equation is? seriously... when you typed that shit out did you really think you were making any type of point? good god man................

"Volumetric efficiency in internal combustion engine design refers to the efficiency with which the engine can move the charge into and out of the cylinders. More specifically, volumetric efficiency is a ratio (or percentage) of what quantity of fuel and air actually enters the cylinder during induction to the actual capacity of the cylinder under static conditions. Therefore, those engines that can create higher induction manifold pressures - above ambient - will have efficiencies greater than 100%. Volumetric efficiencies can be improved in a number of ways, but most notably the size of the valve openings compared to the volume of the cylinder and streamlining the ports. Engines with higher volumetric efficiency will generally be able to run at higher speeds (commonly measured in RPM) and produce more overall power due to less parasitic power loss moving air in and out of the engine.
There are several standard ways to improve volumetric efficiency. A common approach for manufacturers is to use larger valves or multiple valves. Larger valves increase flow but weigh more. Multi-valve engines combine two or more smaller valves with areas greater than a single, large valve while having less weight, but with added complexity. Carefully streamlining the ports increases flow capability. This is referred to as porting and is done with the aid of an air flow bench for testing. Another major aspect of design is to use a crossflow cylinder head, which has become the standard configuration in modern engines.
Many high performance cars use carefully arranged air intakes and tuned exhaust systems to push air into and out of the cylinders, making use of the resonance of the system. Two-stroke engines take this concept even further with expansion chambers that return the escaping air-fuel mixture back to the cylinder. A more modern technique, variable valve timing, attempts to address changes in volumetric efficiency with changes in speed of the engine: at higher speeds the engine needs the valves open for a greater percentage of the cycle time to move the charge in and out of the engine.
Volumetric efficiencies above 100% can be reached by using forced induction such as supercharging or turbocharging. With proper tuning, volumetric efficiencies above 100% can also be reached by naturally aspirated engines. The limit for naturally aspirated engines is about 137%;[1] these engines are typically of a DOHC layout with four valves per cylinder.
More "radical" solutions include the sleeve valve design, in which the valves are replaced outright with a rotating sleeve around the piston, or alternately a rotating sleeve under the cylinder head. In this system the ports can be as large as necessary, up to that of the entire cylinder wall. However there is a practical upper limit due to the strength of the sleeve, at larger sizes the pressure inside the cylinder can "pop" the sleeve if the port is too large.
Volumetric Efficiency is frequently abbreviated as "VE" when discussing engine efficiency."


THIS IS THE PART THAT MATTERS YOU MOTHER FUCKING BRAID DEAD DIPSHIT.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/BenRAWT/e546e45-1.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

Nelson - "herp derp derp derp derp if i multiply the displacements by the same number i get a larger number from the larger displacements, herp derp derp derp 3 is a bigger number than 2... herp derp derp derp"


quit embarrassing yourself you stupid mother fucker

[nelson9995]

YOU FUCKING FUCKTARD!

It can be improved in a number of ways but all those 4 motors can be worked on and improved.

I KEEP REPEATING SAME WORK SAME MONEY

Meaning anything you do to raise the volumetric efficienecy in an sr20 has to be done to the other 3 motors.

You keep bringing things up that are irrelevant sinfix.
I mention something you bring a thousand obstacles on how this and that.
I keep repeating SAME WORK SAME MONEY
Does that not matter?

[Sinfix_15]

YOU FUCKING FUCKTARD!

It can be improved in a number of ways but all those 4 motors can be worked on and improved.

I KEEP REPEATING SAME WORK SAME MONEY

Meaning anything you do to raise the volumetric efficienecy in an sr20 has to be done to the other 3 motors.

You keep bringing things up that are irrelevant sinfix.
I mention something you bring a thousand obstacles on how this and that.
I keep repeating SAME WORK SAME MONEY
Does that not matter?

simple question.

Why does everyone here think you're stupid?

Are you smarter than everyone else here?

[Sinfix_15]

Nelson......

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

[nelson9995]

Nelson......

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

Checkmate sinfix.
I proved why a sr20 will not make more power under the same cond. With factual number and math.
I can also prove it with ur dynosheet ans my friends stock rb25 lol.
It can also be proven in the street to bad you have nothing but a wannabe evo.

[Sinfix_15]

Checkmate sinfix.
I proved why a sr20 will not make more power under the same cond. With factual number and math.
I can also prove it with ur dynosheet ans my friends stock rb25 lol.
It can also be proven in the street to bad you have nothing but a wannabe evo.

David mentioned something a few pages back that went over your head. You went and googled it and came back with a math equation that you were so proud of. Your math did nothing other than make you look like an even bigger jackass. You simply lack the mental ability to understand how what you're saying is so dumb. You cant be reasoned with. Your intelligence level just isnt up to par.


There's a reason everyone thinks you're an idiot.

[l Gizzy l]

Nelson - "herp derp derp derp derp if i multiply the displacements by the same number i get a larger number from the larger displacements, herp derp derp derp 3 is a bigger number than 2... herp derp derp derp"


quit embarrassing yourself you stupid mother fucker


probably the greatest post i've ever read


















aside from anything Echo has posted, ever. :ninja:

[nelson9995]

David mentioned something a few pages back that went over your head. You went and googled it and came back with a math equation that you were so proud of. Your math did nothing other than make you look like an even bigger jackass. You simply lack the mental ability to understand how what you're saying is so dumb. You cant be reasoned with. Your intelligence level just isnt up to par.


There's a reason everyone thinks you're an idiot.

So if size, redline, and volumetric efficiency does not matter.

I see. The sr20 will win because its badass just like catnips lsx will beat anything because its badass.

Ok.
Well i am now convinced of the trolling.

[Sinfix_15]

You could have raced me anytime in the last 5 years. Yep.... all i have is a pretend evo...... and a CBR.... and a 2012 Harley...

You get older kid.... i'm 29 years old. Ive been drag racing since i was 16.... it doesnt make my balls tingle anymore. Maybe someday it will again, but now i need a break. You're at that age where you want to have a dick swinging contest with everything on 4 wheels.... good for you. I dont care...... Let me spoil the surprise for you, you're not the fastest car out there, not even close..... using a KA... you never will be.

I'm intellectually superior to you. That is what i came here to prove. I've done that.

[Sinfix_15]

This is what makes my dick hard these days......
http://www.styleofeye.com/images/yamaha-motorcycle-on-the-open-road1.jpg

Not this......
http://www.thrillseekersunlimited.com/images/film_tv/image001.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

So if size, redline, and volumetric efficiency does not matter.

I see. The sr20 will win because its badass just like catnips lsx will beat anything because its badass.

Ok.
Well i am now convinced of the trolling.

You do not understand the concept. Cant explain something to you that you lack the mental capacity to grasp.

[nelson9995]

You could have raced me anytime in the last 5 years. Yep.... all i have is a pretend evo...... and a CBR.... and a 2012 Harley...

You get older kid.... i'm 29 years old. Ive been drag racing since i was 16.... it doesnt make my balls tingle anymore. Maybe someday it will again, but now i need a break. You're at that age where you want to have a dick swinging contest with everything on 4 wheels.... good for you. I dont care...... Let me spoil the surprise for you, you're not the fastest car out there, not even close..... using a KA... you never will be.

I'm intellectually superior to you. That is what i came here to prove. I've done that.

I haven't raced in over a year man. Honestly.
I know ka24's aren't the shit. I honestly believe sr20's are more well rounded.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was what makes more power that is all.

You have proved that you can use better words than me and yes bring a better argument.
You have not proved why the sr20 makes more power.

I'm just going to leave the argument here.
This wasn't a dick measuring contest man at all man.
Never intended it to be, and it never was.

[Sinfix_15]

I haven't raced in over a year man. Honestly.
I know ka24's aren't the shit. I honestly believe sr20's are more well rounded.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was what makes more power that is all.

You have proved that you can use better words than me and yes bring a better argument.
You have not proved why the sr20 makes more power.

I'm just going to leave the argument here.
This wasn't a dick measuring contest man. I know I;m not the fastest ot best motor.
Hell, some of my friends are already faster.

I dont know how it could be explained any more thorough than it already has. I will leave you with this last and final clue.....

Go look at the ETs for the fastest 4 cylinders in the world. Then ask yourself..... what do they all have in common that a KA does not.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQh7rscoMyJxhYaPoL9v-lHw_0QHObRggo0DMPZJ1UjSyWMy6qBG8F3rOw7
http://www.automania.be/files/Image/articles/jpg/MITSUBISHI-LANCER-EVO-IX-05.jpg
http://carguideblog.com/wp-content/uploads/gm-ecotec-2.jpg

[David88vert]

Ideal volumetric efficiency

V_ideal = D*N/2

d= displacement
n= engine speed in rpm

so again

(ka24) 2389*7/2= 8,361.5
(rb25) 2498*8/2=9,992
(rb26) 2568*8/2=10,272
(sr20) 1998*8/2=7,992


So In order, the ideal volumetric effiency goes from sr20, ka24, rb25, rb26 (low to high)
Does this not also show that displacement is a huge factor?


Hope I used enough proof this time.

You have no idea how to calculate volumetric efficiency.
Here is a primer:
Volumetric Efficiency:L Calculating your cars volumetric efficiency (http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_articles/volumetric_efficiency/ve_computation_9.012000.htm)
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/volumetric_efficiency.htm

[David88vert]

YOU FUCKING FUCKTARD!

It can be improved in a number of ways but all those 4 motors can be worked on and improved.

I KEEP REPEATING SAME WORK SAME MONEY

Meaning anything you do to raise the volumetric efficienecy in an sr20 has to be done to the other 3 motors.

You keep bringing things up that are irrelevant sinfix.
I mention something you bring a thousand obstacles on how this and that.
I keep repeating SAME WORK SAME MONEY
Does that not matter?

You are making an incorrect assumption in stating that any work done to one can be done to the others.

If you machine a block, you can only go so far until you reach a point where the cylinder walls are too thin, or hit a water jacket. Different blocks utilize different amounts of materials. You need to look at how far a block can be bored out safely. I am not familiar with KA, RB, and SR engines to know their maximum bore sizes, but I know that it is unlikely that all of them are the same amount.

[David88vert]

Checkmate sinfix.
I proved why a sr20 will not make more power under the same cond. With factual number and math.
I can also prove it with ur dynosheet ans my friends stock rb25 lol.
It can also be proven in the street to bad you have nothing but a wannabe evo.

Your math is highly flawed. That cannot be counted as "proof".

I am not saying that your conclusion is right or wrong, it is quite possible that the RB is superior to the SR, just commenting on the facts.

[Sinfix_15]

Your math is highly flawed. That cannot be counted as "proof".

I am not saying that your conclusion is right or wrong, it is quite possible that the RB is superior to the SR, just commenting on the facts.

I agree that the RB26 is superior to the SR20.... but with an * that says that the world's fastest SR20 is faster than the worlds fastest RB26. Point being, regardless of which one your favor.... the SR20 will not sell you short on your goals, whatever they may be.

He strayed away from his KA vs SR argument and started using the RB26 as an example. SR>KA, hands down.

[Elbow]

Rotary > All

[Sinfix_15]

Rotary > All

http://cl.jroo.me/z3/f/Q/D/d/a.aaa-Alkaida-cat-rofl.jpg

[E36slide]

I agree that the RB26 is superior to the SR20.... but with an * that says that the world's fastest SR20 is faster than the worlds fastest RB26. Point being, regardless of which one your favor.... the SR20 will not sell you short on your goals, whatever they may be.

He strayed away from his KA vs SR argument and started using the RB26 as an example. SR>KA, hands down.

I don't believe this to be correct lol dragging maybe but drifting no. A built ka puts a sr to shame on a drift course. If the ka had a better flowing head it be a good motor. It has a lot of low end trq which is good when drifting. I know y'all's convo is drag based.

Please continue y'all's pissing contest lol

[E36slide]

Ok, so David mentions something and you go and google it attempting to sound intelligent. You've managed again to make yourself look even dumber.


Please kid, for the love of god quit embarrassing yourself. You lack the mental capacity to debate this topic...... move on. Do you not understand how stupid your little math equation is? seriously... when you typed that shit out did you really think you were making any type of point? good god man................

"Volumetric efficiency in internal combustion engine design refers to the efficiency with which the engine can move the charge into and out of the cylinders. More specifically, volumetric efficiency is a ratio (or percentage) of what quantity of fuel and air actually enters the cylinder during induction to the actual capacity of the cylinder under static conditions. Therefore, those engines that can create higher induction manifold pressures - above ambient - will have efficiencies greater than 100%. Volumetric efficiencies can be improved in a number of ways, but most notably the size of the valve openings compared to the volume of the cylinder and streamlining the ports. Engines with higher volumetric efficiency will generally be able to run at higher speeds (commonly measured in RPM) and produce more overall power due to less parasitic power loss moving air in and out of the engine.
There are several standard ways to improve volumetric efficiency. A common approach for manufacturers is to use larger valves or multiple valves. Larger valves increase flow but weigh more. Multi-valve engines combine two or more smaller valves with areas greater than a single, large valve while having less weight, but with added complexity. Carefully streamlining the ports increases flow capability. This is referred to as porting and is done with the aid of an air flow bench for testing. Another major aspect of design is to use a crossflow cylinder head, which has become the standard configuration in modern engines.
Many high performance cars use carefully arranged air intakes and tuned exhaust systems to push air into and out of the cylinders, making use of the resonance of the system. Two-stroke engines take this concept even further with expansion chambers that return the escaping air-fuel mixture back to the cylinder. A more modern technique, variable valve timing, attempts to address changes in volumetric efficiency with changes in speed of the engine: at higher speeds the engine needs the valves open for a greater percentage of the cycle time to move the charge in and out of the engine.
Volumetric efficiencies above 100% can be reached by using forced induction such as supercharging or turbocharging. With proper tuning, volumetric efficiencies above 100% can also be reached by naturally aspirated engines. The limit for naturally aspirated engines is about 137%;[1] these engines are typically of a DOHC layout with four valves per cylinder.
More "radical" solutions include the sleeve valve design, in which the valves are replaced outright with a rotating sleeve around the piston, or alternately a rotating sleeve under the cylinder head. In this system the ports can be as large as necessary, up to that of the entire cylinder wall. However there is a practical upper limit due to the strength of the sleeve, at larger sizes the pressure inside the cylinder can "pop" the sleeve if the port is too large.
Volumetric Efficiency is frequently abbreviated as "VE" when discussing engine efficiency."


THIS IS THE PART THAT MATTERS YOU MOTHER FUCKING BRAID DEAD DIPSHIT.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/BenRAWT/e546e45-1.jpg

Damn sinfix you deserve a pat on the back or reps from everyone on this forum. You're not as dumb as you seem.

[Doppelgänger]

I see some holes in multiple aspects of everything being stated here. Though my little bit of opinion will probably fall to the way-side, I'll post anyway.

- You cannot compare engines based on what form of motorsport they'll be used for. Some require a flexible, broad power-band and some are all about putting down maximum power as much as possible. Two extreme examples of this would be F1 and WRC. F1 uses 2.4L V8 engines and are limited to 18,000 rpm. WRC has gone gone to 1.6L engines (four cylinder) with a 34mm restrictor- these teams tune for maximum torque. Can you figure out why each of these classes have such regulations? Comparing an RB or SR or KA used for drifting and used for drag racing are two completely different arguments. I see Sin posting mostly about drag racing and the fastest Nissan powerplant being a SR and arguments that the KA and RB are used for drifting. This is simply an invalid argument. Don't worry, I'm not saying one of you is wrong over the other on this.

As far as the SR vs all debate- it's a matter of preference to me. I don't know the mechanical ability/shortcomings for the SR/KA/RB engines and which one is more cost effective to build, but I can apply what I know from what I am familiar with. I come from the Mazda world and know the BP engine quite well. It's not a great flowing engine, especially in n/a form. There are other engines out there in a similar family that are seen as the "big boys" for me, like the FE or MZ-R. But in the end, it comes down to what you like and how you make it work for you and how much you want to spend. Personally, I think the B6 (1.6 variant of my 1.8 BP) is inferior; not in build, but power potential (SR vs KA) Either engine can be built to make good, reliable power, and generally speaking, the larger displacement will always make more torque...but as Sinfix has said, torque isn't everything. So once you really start the whole a built xxx is better than a stock xxx" or "built this vs built that", everything really breaks down- the point of "building" and engine is to address the weak points associated with that engine when increasing it's power output. All engines have a point of failure once you push them past their original design specification. The SR was designed a specific way that is not related to the KA or RB. So stating "oh a KA with rods and pistons is better than a SR". Duh. You've addressed the main points of failure there...congratulations on the common knowledge. So now apply that to the SR that is so "bad" and now you can take that engine further.

Furthermore, tuning plays probably the single most important role here. One person might break a SR at 250hp and one might make 450hp all day long and beat the absolute shit out of it and never have a problem. Much of this comes down to tuning. Like I've said, I'm not well versed on actually tuning ECUs, but I understand the cause and effect of what goes into it and how very little differences make for major results.


Oh and Nelson, to answer this really fucking retarded statement-






Why not use powerstroke everything? Simple/ Because they don’t rev. How do you race a car that doesn’t rev? You need to find a balance where you have the best powerband possible but are still allowed to rev.
Clearly the sr20 is the worst option once again.



It's called GEARING. How the fuck do you think vehicles with 3k redlines are able to do highway speeds? They are geared to use the torque curve of the engine. It's pretty fucking simple. Did you know Audi waxed ass in ALMS with a diesel powered LMP car? OMG HOW'D THEY DO THAT?!?!? DIESELS DONT REV!! Gearing- that's how. Once again, comparing race cars to street cars, there is a point where transmissions are replaced with gear seats that optimize the desired power delivery....like full on drag cars and "drift" cars. There are so many details to both sides of this thread, but when it comes down to it, all you have done is prove your lack of deductive reasoning and ability to understand.

Sin- I'm not saying you're wrong either in anyway. Clearly you understand mechanical aspects of what you're talking about, there are just a few areas of comparison in here that just cannot be done.

[Vteckidd]

Im not gonna read it all, but if the SR20 was so amazing, Nissan would have put it into a GTR.

The reason why most people do an SR is because of the price, the availability, and the massive amount of parts support. Thats it. Its EASY to make 300whp out of an SR. Its a good reliable motor that is CHEAP and easy to install.

KA- Not a bad motor, but has to be built, hard to find with good mileage, etc
RB- Technically the 25 and 26 are VASTLY superior to the SR20 IMO, but its a much more involved swap to put those motors into S chassis. Much more expensive as well. Id rather have a SR20 over an RB20 personally as well. I think the RB20 belongs at the bottom of a river.

RB25 is my personal favorite because its a good balance between HP/Liter/Parts selection and cost. But thats just me.

[Vteckidd]

And as far as racing is concerned, it all depends on the car, motorsport, class rules, etc.

Ive seen guys drag race SRs and RBs and Ive seen guys Drift SR and RBs, just depends on personal preference.

[nelson9995]

Im not gonna read it all, but if the SR20 was so amazing, Nissan would have put it into a GTR.

The reason why most people do an SR is because of the price, the availability, and the massive amount of parts support. Thats it. Its EASY to make 300whp out of an SR. Its a good reliable motor that is CHEAP and easy to install.

KA- Not a bad motor, but has to be built, hard to find with good mileage, etc
RB- Technically the 25 and 26 are VASTLY superior to the SR20 IMO, but its a much more involved swap to put those motors into S chassis. Much more expensive as well. Id rather have a SR20 over an RB20 personally as well. I think the RB20 belongs at the bottom of a river.

RB25 is my personal favorite because its a good balance between HP/Liter/Parts selection and cost. But thats just me.

I agree with you.

Among the sr20,ka24,rb25,rb26...
Based on what you know
In what order (out of the 4) would you pick the motor to build to have a 600whp drag car and why?

I would like to see your point of view.

[Vteckidd]

I agree with you.

Among the sr20,ka24,rb25,rb26...
Based on what you know
In what order (out of the 4) would you pick the motor to build to have a 600whp drag car and why?

why 600whp? What chassis?

A 400whp S13/S14 can run 10s easily, its been done over and over again.

600whp, RB25 or 26 mainly from the standpoint that its much simpler to make that kind of power out of a bigger liter engine. Knowing that

Rb26
RB25
SR20
KA

reason i put KA last is because of parts availability. Its been years since i really looked but it was $$$$ for Rods,Intake manifold was custom, pistons were not cheap etc. Ive seen relatively low budget RB25 and RB26s make 400-500whp with ease. SRs 400-450 is pretty high, not so easy to cross the 500whp threshold IMO

[nelson9995]

why 600whp? What chassis?

A 400whp S13/S14 can run 10s easily, its been done over and over again.

600whp, RB25 or 26 mainly from the standpoint that its much simpler to make that kind of power out of a bigger liter engine. Knowing that

Rb26
RB25
SR20
KA

reason i put KA last is because of parts availability. Its been years since i really looked but it was $$$$ for Rods,Intake manifold was custom, pistons were not cheap etc. Ive seen relatively low budget RB25 and RB26s make 400-500whp with ease. SRs 400-450 is pretty high, not so easy to cross the 500whp threshold IMO

Intake manifolds are now being sold over the counter for it.
I recently bought wiseco pistons and eagle rods for less that $800 BRAND new online
SAME PRICE AS SR
What you stated is what I have been stating and I keep getting called an idiot.

[nelson9995]

My concern is just making more power with less work

All in an s chassis

[Vteckidd]

My concern is just making more power with less work

All in an s chassis

depends on budget, depends on power goals, reliability etc. People toss around the term drag car like it means something, then get upset when the 500-600whp motor pops.

realistically i would shoot for 400whp. With 400whp you have a 10 second car, and youll break more things than you know what to do with.

[nelson9995]

depends on budget, depends on power goals, reliability etc. People toss around the term drag car like it means something, then get upset when the 500-600whp motor pops.

realistically i would shoot for 400whp. With 400whp you have a 10 second car, and youll break more things than you know what to do with.

I completely agree with you here also.
I got ridiculized because everyone states that size does not matter.
I was told that the sr being 2.0, the ka being 2.4, the rb being 2.5/2.6 has no effect on how much power it can make.
I was also implied that 600whp is a rb26 and 600whp in an sr is not much different.

Now i'm confused.
Am I really a moron? or am I being trolled?

[Catnip]

depends on budget, depends on power goals, reliability etc. People toss around the term drag car like it means something, then get upset when the 500-600whp motor pops.

realistically i would shoot for 400whp. With 400whp you have a 10 second car, and youll break more things than you know what to do with.

Just to clear up the initial arguement, you would agree building an SR20 at stock bore/stroke in an S13, could be a very successful drag car?

[Vteckidd]

I can see what Sinfix point is, hes advising you not to trash the SR motor because its more than capable of doing what you want.

However, you guys need to learn what Volumetric Efficiency is and what it means in relation to making peak torque or power. Its much easier to achieve power with a bigger motor, provided you can reach peak VE of course.

TECHNICALLY a 600whp SR vs a 600WHP RB26, which one is faster? Assuming all things are equal (which they arent), rev line, gearing, turbo size, etc, the RB26 makes the power much EASIER because its a bigger engine, it prob operates at less VE % than the SR20 as well.

This doesnt mean bigger is better, and it doesnt mean smaller is better, or than an RB26 is superior. It just means in general terms, the bigger motor makes the power easier, all things being equal.

[nelson9995]

I kept repeating that 450whp is pretty much it on pump gas.
I also got called an idiot

[nelson9995]

I can see what Sinfix point is, hes advising you not to trash the SR motor because its more than capable of doing what you want.

However, you guys need to learn what Volumetric Efficiency is and what it means in relation to making peak torque or power. Its much easier to achieve power with a bigger motor, provided you can reach peak VE of course.

TECHNICALLY a 600whp SR vs a 600WHP RB26, which one is faster? Assuming all things are equal (which they arent), rev line, gearing, turbo size, etc, the RB26 makes the power much EASIER because its a bigger engine, it prob operates at less VE % than the SR20 as well.

This doesnt mean bigger is better, and it doesnt mean smaller is better, or than an RB26 is superior. It just means in general terms, the bigger motor makes the power easier, all things being equal.

Jesus. Finally someone agrees with me.
This has been my point over and over.
i NEVER trashed the sr20.
i simply stated that it would take more work to make more power than the other 3 motors.

[Vteckidd]

Just to clear up the initial arguement, you would agree building an SR20 at stock bore/stroke in an S13, could be a very successful drag car?

again define DRAG CAR.

Nyteryders 450whp SR20 was king street car forever, was cheap to build too. Blew transmissions every few months, but those are $100.

A stock bore an stroke SR20 is a very capable motor, and probably the cheapest route to go in terms of building , parts availability, etc. But I personally would not choose that engine if money wasnt a factor. I like the RB25.

The KA isnt a bad motor, I just think it costs a lot more to build and tune than the SR.

[Catnip]

I kept repeating that 450whp is pretty much it on pump gas.
I also got called an idiot


E85 is pump gas and people are making 650+whp on SR20s running pump gas.... stock bore and stroke.

[Vteckidd]

Jesus. Finally someone agrees with me.
This has been my point over and over.
i NEVER trashed the sr20.
i simply stated that it would take more work to make more power than the other 3 motors.

I would still rank the SR over the KA for me personally, just because of R/S ratio and some other things. But to each his own

[nelson9995]

I would still rank the SR over the KA for me personally, just because of R/S ratio and some other things. But to each his own

I understand that. that is personal preference which i said I completely agree with/understand.

I knew I was getting trolled.

[E36slide]

Can my name be taken from the title since I'm not actually arguing in this thread ? I don't think I've said one douchebag comment yet which is surprising I know.

[nelson9995]

Vteckidd summarized my whole argument.
is he also an idiot?
or was I right about the popularity contest?

[Catnip]

Can my name be taken from the title since I'm not actually arguing in this thread ? I don't think I've said one douchebag comment yet which is surprising I know.

It may not be so much that you haven't made a douchebag comment yet, as much as Nelson has stolen the spotlight with his stupidity and lack of logic.

[E36slide]

It may not be so much that you haven't made a douchebag comment yet, as much as Nelson has stolen the spotlight with his stupidity and lack of logic.

Well I won't argue unless I'm 100% right. Plus I have a sr making 356whp reliably I have nothing but positive things to say about it being I've beaten the hell out of it and it still has perfect compression. I would still choose the rb25 though. I would feel more comfortable driving a 356 whp rb25 over a sr due to the fact that for obvious reasons the bigger the motor the more it can support.

[nelson9995]

Lack of logic and stupidity?
how many more people that know what they are talking about need to come here and agree with my original argument?

[nelson9995]

I would feel more comfortable driving a 356 whp rb25 over a sr due to the fact that for obvious reasons the bigger the motor the more it can support.
Thank You

[nelson9995]

E36- I thought you weren't afraid to speak up when you knew you were right...
Are you that afraid of Sinfix calling you an idiot?

[E36slide]

E36- I thought you weren't afraid to speak up when you knew you were right...
Are you that afraid of Sinfix calling you an idiot?

Idiots calling other people idiots don't bother me.

[nelson9995]

lol.
I don't see why it took 17 pages for someone worth having in the thread to come and repeat my original argument
I kept getting trolled by the same 2 people over and over.

[Doppelgänger]

Also, just to show that the "big boy" engines aren't always what you think is king, take some of the cars from JGTC as an example. The all-mighty Supras that ran in JGTC quite commonly used the 3S-GTE and some even used the 3UZ-FE....makes you wonder why they didn't use the 1JZ-GTE (not really all that much of a mystery). In later years, some of the GT-R teams ditched the RB for a VQ as well and in some GT-Rs, SR20s were used.


Regulations in GT500 are considerably looser than most GT classifications, and teams are free to change engines with other models made by the manufacturer, change the alignment of the engine, or add forced-induction systems to models which do not normally have it (pre-2010 when they went to 3.4L V8 engines)

[RL...]

v8's own all

/thread

[Catnip]

Also, just to show that the "big boy" engines aren't always what you think is king, take some of the cars from JGTC as an example. The all-mighty Supras that ran in JGTC quite commonly used the 3S-GTE and some even used the 3UZ-FE....makes you wonder why they didn't use the 1JZ-GTE (not really all that much of a mystery). In later years, some of the GT-R teams ditched the RB for a VQ as well and in some GT-Rs, SR20s were used.

I don't know a whole lot about motorsports if it's not drag racing- that's pretty cool. Never knew it!

[SHAUNvX]

Wow last time i was in this thread, It had only 9 pages i think, dam.

[Sinfix_15]

lot to respond to, let me get to work...... Spoiler alert... Nelson is still a moron.

[Sinfix_15]

Jesus. Finally someone agrees with me.
This has been my point over and over.
i NEVER trashed the sr20.
i simply stated that it would take more work to make more power than the other 3 motors.

No, you said a KA is > than an SR20.... when you were proven wrong... you started bringing up RBs. I stated from the beginning that the RB26 was superior. I've said that a dozen times over inside and outside of this thread.......

You've been walking back your KA argument and desperately clinging to hope for your argument.

[Sinfix_15]

Lack of logic and stupidity?
how many more people that know what they are talking about need to come here and agree with my original argument?

YOU do not know what you're talking about. Also, youre delusional if you view anyone's response as agreeing with you. Youre clinging desperately....

[Sinfix_15]

I don't believe this to be correct lol dragging maybe but drifting no. A built ka puts a sr to shame on a drift course. If the ka had a better flowing head it be a good motor. It has a lot of low end trq which is good when drifting. I know y'all's convo is drag based.

Please continue y'all's pissing contest lol

I fail to understand how any engine puts any other engine to shame on a drift course. I was under the impression that drifting wasnt a race.

[Sinfix_15]

I can see what Sinfix point is, hes advising you not to trash the SR motor because its more than capable of doing what you want.

However, you guys need to learn what Volumetric Efficiency is and what it means in relation to making peak torque or power. Its much easier to achieve power with a bigger motor, provided you can reach peak VE of course.

TECHNICALLY a 600whp SR vs a 600WHP RB26, which one is faster? Assuming all things are equal (which they arent), rev line, gearing, turbo size, etc, the RB26 makes the power much EASIER because its a bigger engine, it prob operates at less VE % than the SR20 as well.

This doesnt mean bigger is better, and it doesnt mean smaller is better, or than an RB26 is superior. It just means in general terms, the bigger motor makes the power easier, all things being equal.

Reread this thread and count how many times i've said RB26>sr20.... Nelson's argument was KA>SR20 and he's been walking it back.

Also, youre judging degree of difficulty based on the engine alone, not the engine being put in the car. If you asked me chose between a sr20 powered 240 and a rb26 powered 240, id pick the rb powered 240 so fast my head would spin. if you gave me a stock 240 and then asked me which engine i wanted to put it in between a SR20 and a RB26, id chose the SR20.... obviously, since thats what i did.

My comparison of the SR20 to RB26 is more about proving the SR20's worth than it is discrediting the rb26.... nobody discredits the rb26. I've all but worshiped that engine in previous posts.....

I'm saying " hey, everyone thinks RBs are world beating powerhouses built by god himself...... you know that SR20 you think is a piece of shit.... it's records are better than the rbs..."

[Sinfix_15]

Intake manifolds are now being sold over the counter for it.
I recently bought wiseco pistons and eagle rods for less that $800 BRAND new online
SAME PRICE AS SR
What you stated is what I have been stating and I keep getting called an idiot.

You get called an idiot because you are an idiot. It's a waste continuing to explain this too you. You're too fucking stupid for it to ever soak in.

[Sinfix_15]

Idiots calling other people idiots don't bother me.

You questioning my intelligence gives me a laugh.

[Sinfix_15]

I see some holes in multiple aspects of everything being stated here. Though my little bit of opinion will probably fall to the way-side, I'll post anyway.

- You cannot compare engines based on what form of motorsport they'll be used for. Some require a flexible, broad power-band and some are all about putting down maximum power as much as possible. Two extreme examples of this would be F1 and WRC. F1 uses 2.4L V8 engines and are limited to 18,000 rpm. WRC has gone gone to 1.6L engines (four cylinder) with a 34mm restrictor- these teams tune for maximum torque. Can you figure out why each of these classes have such regulations? Comparing an RB or SR or KA used for drifting and used for drag racing are two completely different arguments. I see Sin posting mostly about drag racing and the fastest Nissan powerplant being a SR and arguments that the KA and RB are used for drifting. This is simply an invalid argument. Don't worry, I'm not saying one of you is wrong over the other on this.

As far as the SR vs all debate- it's a matter of preference to me. I don't know the mechanical ability/shortcomings for the SR/KA/RB engines and which one is more cost effective to build, but I can apply what I know from what I am familiar with. I come from the Mazda world and know the BP engine quite well. It's not a great flowing engine, especially in n/a form. There are other engines out there in a similar family that are seen as the "big boys" for me, like the FE or MZ-R. But in the end, it comes down to what you like and how you make it work for you and how much you want to spend. Personally, I think the B6 (1.6 variant of my 1.8 BP) is inferior; not in build, but power potential (SR vs KA) Either engine can be built to make good, reliable power, and generally speaking, the larger displacement will always make more torque...but as Sinfix has said, torque isn't everything. So once you really start the whole a built xxx is better than a stock xxx" or "built this vs built that", everything really breaks down- the point of "building" and engine is to address the weak points associated with that engine when increasing it's power output. All engines have a point of failure once you push them past their original design specification. The SR was designed a specific way that is not related to the KA or RB. So stating "oh a KA with rods and pistons is better than a SR". Duh. You've addressed the main points of failure there...congratulations on the common knowledge. So now apply that to the SR that is so "bad" and now you can take that engine further.

Furthermore, tuning plays probably the single most important role here. One person might break a SR at 250hp and one might make 450hp all day long and beat the absolute shit out of it and never have a problem. Much of this comes down to tuning. Like I've said, I'm not well versed on actually tuning ECUs, but I understand the cause and effect of what goes into it and how very little differences make for major results.


Oh and Nelson, to answer this really fucking retarded statement-




It's called GEARING. How the fuck do you think vehicles with 3k redlines are able to do highway speeds? They are geared to use the torque curve of the engine. It's pretty fucking simple. Did you know Audi waxed ass in ALMS with a diesel powered LMP car? OMG HOW'D THEY DO THAT?!?!? DIESELS DONT REV!! Gearing- that's how. Once again, comparing race cars to street cars, there is a point where transmissions are replaced with gear seats that optimize the desired power delivery....like full on drag cars and "drift" cars. There are so many details to both sides of this thread, but when it comes down to it, all you have done is prove your lack of deductive reasoning and ability to understand.

Sin- I'm not saying you're wrong either in anyway. Clearly you understand mechanical aspects of what you're talking about, there are just a few areas of comparison in here that just cannot be done.

I chose drag racing as my measuring stick because i feel it's the purest way to judge an engine specifically. You might be able to out run me around a road course in your miata with me driving a new ZR1 corvette.... that doesnt mean the miata has a better engine. Lot of variables. Also.... im engaging Nelson in the topic he chose..... drag racing. Drifting is a non factor for me...... i look at drifting about like i do watching the harlem globe trotters.

I'm not saying the SR20 is the greatest engine in the world, my argument is that it is 100% better than the KA. My comparisons of the SR20 to the RB26 are nothing more than questioning how the RB can be so beloved and the SR so hated, when the SR has eclipsed the RB26 in some major accomplishments.

Nelson sat here and said the SR20 was the worst engine for drag racing..... when it has times faster than any rb26 on the planet...... and the KA isnt even worthy of mentioning on the professional level.

[Doppelgänger]

Understood. Variables indeed. :goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

I dont think i would ever choose a KA over an SR20, for reasons ive already stated. SR20s are not garbage, they are proven well designed platforms and easy to swap.

Sometimes you get people who want to be different and go against the norm, before they realize that the norm is the norm for a reason.

[Sinfix_15]

forgot to comment on the gearing post last night. I doubt i will express my argument in it's entirety as im pressed for time and walking out the door soon.....

but in terms of drag racing or acceleration, the argument you present is correct in theory.... but it doesnt factor in mechanical limitations. One thing that makes the SR20 great is it's long smooth climb through the RPM. As the car begins to move, the stress transferred through the body lightens and during the course of acceleration the SR20 climbs in power steadily. If you launched on a 1000hp diesel engine that was geared to do 200mph, you would either A break or B have a transmission/gearbox heavy duty enough that the weight and resistance of it would hinder your speed.

The worlds fastest diesel makes 1800lbs of torque to run nearly the exact same time as the SR20 outlaw street car. The diesel is a rail. I would imagine that power plant in a real car chassis would probably spit the axles into the 7th row of the stands or do nothing but spin. Same reason that semis have so many gears.

For road racing application, those cars spend the entire race in motion. They dont deal with the initial drivetrain shock like a drag car does. As you stated previously..... if we were talking about the best engine for a different application.... IE road racing, hill climbing.. nascar or whatever..... that would completely change the argument. For the purpose of simplicity, and since it's what i know.... i'm limiting my argument to drag racing/power/acceleration

[Doppelgänger]

I can't really see what you're getting at there Sin. Please elaborate, specifically on the mechanical limits you mentioned :) But I will make the following post to show you what I understand of gearing, power delivery, and what I tihnk you were getting to.

What I can say is engines with broad torque curves (diesel-powered drag cars & big V8 drag cars) can use 2 and 3 speed transmissions (Powerglide, for example) because they have the available torque to turn long gears. Not to mention these types of transmissions don't really multiply torque like a transmission with 5+ gears. I see the Mazworx/Micks Motorworks "S15" uses a G-force 5speed clutchless transmission. To me, that translates into the SR20 they're using simply doesn't have the available torque to run a long gear set with a minimal amount of gears. They need more gears to keep the engine in it's peak power range for maximum acceleration. Nothing wrong with that, it's just what is needed for the application. If you had a 1800ft/lb diesel engine and have it geared to go 200mph, you don't need the lower gears for torque amplification to get moving (this is the reason 18-wheels have 17 gears- not because they always need it, but to super amplify the torque to move heavy loads). If anything, in theory it would be easier to make a 18-wheeler spin tires because of how much the short gears amplify torque, but they run out of RPMs too quickly. An unloaded 18-wheeler cab can accelerate just fine with skipping/splitting gears. I'm sure QD can elaborate on just what/how many gears can be skipped when driving a cab. Point of that is, without the [heavy] load, the usable range of RPM, is longer because the amount of torque required to accelerate is less. With a heavy load, the usable RPM range is reduced because more peak torque is required and shortening (splitting and hi/low range) the gears keeps the engine in the usable RPM range. This is a direct relationship to the SR20 powered car using/needing 5 gears because it doesn't have a broad enough RPM range when making peak power to use long gears.

Going on that you said "if you were to put [a diesel engine] in a real car chassis, it would probably spit axles", is kinda void IMHO because you wouldn't use X engine on Y driveline or Y enigne on X driveline- X engine with X driveline, Y engine with Y driveline. I understand what you're getting at with shock load though- sending 1000+ft/lbs through the driveline at launch and using torque to accelerate vs 400ft/lbs at launch and using RPM generated horsepower to accelerate as available torque decreases (your statement about "the stress transferred through the body lightens and during the course of acceleration"). But the shockload might not be as bad as you're thinking because the gears aren't really multiplying the torque output through the transmission- the powerplant makes enough torque to accelerate. Shorter gears/multiple gears are used for amplifying/multiply power output because the powerplant itself does not make enough to do all the work on its own to start accelerating. I don't think there is much to get into when talking about driveline loss and required equipment to handle power either because it works both ways....if you're making big power, you need the parts that can handle it. But the less moving parts you have on the driveline, the less loss there is.

Like I said, I don't mind a civil discussion at all, nor do I mind being corrected. Heck, while typing that up, I skimmed over a few builds of drag cars, watched a video to completely understand how a semi-truck's transmission works (I knew the basics, but seeing the high range and low range being used with the splits was helpful) and saw pictures of really cool engine builds and turbo setups.

[Sinfix_15]

I can't really see what you're getting at there Sin. Please elaborate, specifically on the mechanical limits you mentioned :) But I will make the following post to show you what I understand of gearing, power delivery, and what I tihnk you were getting to.

What I can say is engines with broad torque curves (diesel-powered drag cars & big V8 drag cars) can use 2 and 3 speed transmissions (Powerglide, for example) because they have the available torque to turn long gears. Not to mention these types of transmissions don't really multiply torque like a transmission with 5+ gears. I see the Mazworx/Micks Motorworks "S15" uses a G-force 5speed clutchless transmission. To me, that translates into the SR20 they're using simply doesn't have the available torque to run a long gear set with a minimal amount of gears. They need more gears to keep the engine in it's peak power range for maximum acceleration. Nothing wrong with that, it's just what is needed for the application. If you had a 1800ft/lb diesel engine and have it geared to go 200mph, you don't need the lower gears for torque amplification to get moving (this is the reason 18-wheels have 17 gears- not because they always need it, but to super amplify the torque to move heavy loads). If anything, in theory it would be easier to make a 18-wheeler spin tires because of how much the short gears amplify torque, but they run out of RPMs too quickly. An unloaded 18-wheeler cab can accelerate just fine with skipping/splitting gears. I'm sure QD can elaborate on just what/how many gears can be skipped when driving a cab. Point of that is, without the [heavy] load, the usable range of RPM, is longer because the amount of torque required to accelerate is less. With a heavy load, the usable RPM range is reduced because more peak torque is required and shortening (splitting and hi/low range) the gears keeps the engine in the usable RPM range. This is a direct relationship to the SR20 powered car using/needing 5 gears because it doesn't have a broad enough RPM range when making peak power to use long gears.

Going on that you said "if you were to put [a diesel engine] in a real car chassis, it would probably spit axles", is kinda void IMHO because you wouldn't use X engine on Y driveline or Y enigne on X driveline- X engine with X driveline, Y engine with Y driveline. I understand what you're getting at with shock load though- sending 1000+ft/lbs through the driveline at launch and using torque to accelerate vs 400ft/lbs at launch and using RPM generated horsepower to accelerate as available torque decreases (your statement about "the stress transferred through the body lightens and during the course of acceleration"). But the shockload might not be as bad as you're thinking because the gears aren't really multiplying the torque output through the transmission- the powerplant makes enough torque to accelerate. Shorter gears/multiple gears are used for amplifying/multiply power output because the powerplant itself does not make enough to do all the work on its own to start accelerating. I don't think there is much to get into when talking about driveline loss and required equipment to handle power either because it works both ways....if you're making big power, you need the parts that can handle it. But the less moving parts you have on the driveline, the less loss there is.

Like I said, I don't mind a civil discussion at all, nor do I mind being corrected. Heck, while typing that up, I skimmed over a few builds of drag cars, watched a video to completely understand how a semi-truck's transmission works (I knew the basics, but seeing the high range and low range being used with the splits was helpful) and saw pictures of really cool engine builds and turbo setups.

I'll respond to this in depth when i get home tonight. Also.... forum needs more discussions like this.

[On_Her_Face]

I got as far as HP per PSI in this thread, first post, line I don't know and I'm too lazy to go back... This might be an ignorant question but is HP per PSI a real worthy metric for anybody on this site or for a daily?

[Doppelgänger]

IMHO doing the whole comparing PSI thing is also very hard. It comes down to CFM more importantly. Unless you are comparing psi on the same setup, it really cannot be compared. PSI =\= flow. Sin's analogy of blowing through a coffee straw and a regular straw is a perfect example.

[On_Her_Face]

IMHO doing the whole comparing PSI thing is also very hard. It comes down to CFM more importantly. Unless you are comparing psi on the same setup, it really cannot be compared. PSI =\= flow. Sin's analogy of blowing through a coffee straw and a regular straw is a perfect example.

Yeah that makes sense I didn't read the thread cause of that first statement. Just seemed like a pointless comparison.

[E36slide]

I fail to understand how any engine puts any other engine to shame on a drift course. I was under the impression that drifting wasnt a race.

It's not a race but you don't want to follow behind when In a tandem. I've seen a ka running pretty much the same setup as a sr and putting it to shame simply because it has more low end torq (well more trq period). The sr is awesome simply because its cheap has forged internals and can with stand a good amount of boost/beating. Giving if you just add a good set of h beam rods and cp pistons to the mix for the ka you have now eliminated the weak point of the ka. Put the same turbo on both and set the psi to let's say 10. On the drift course you will notice a big difference the ka will 9/10 put 1-2 cars. Mainly that's all depends on the skill level of the drivers but I've seen this at Kms where a sr was having a very hard time keeping up with the ka. Only down fall to the ka is the reliability and the fact none of these kids dare to open it up and actual build the motor. So far I like the sr hasn't given me any issues yet just telling you what I've noticed. I've never really seen a built ka vs built sr with similar builds go at it so its harder to judge which of the two is better. Stock for stock though the sr wins hands down. I have seen some pretty quick n/a ka's make some of those guys at Kms with sr's look bad though lol.

[trajedy]

Anyone else find it funny that nelson was bringing up sinfix's word games, but he kept repeating the same thing by twisting the words around and using synonyms of words he had already used until someone finally agreed with his argument?

[Sinfix_15]

It's not a race but you don't want to follow behind when In a tandem. I've seen a ka running pretty much the same setup as a sr and putting it to shame simply because it has more low end torq (well more trq period). The sr is awesome simply because its cheap has forged internals and can with stand a good amount of boost/beating. Giving if you just add a good set of h beam rods and cp pistons to the mix for the ka you have now eliminated the weak point of the ka. Put the same turbo on both and set the psi to let's say 10. On the drift course you will notice a big difference the ka will 9/10 put 1-2 cars. Mainly that's all depends on the skill level of the drivers but I've seen this at Kms where a sr was having a very hard time keeping up with the ka. Only down fall to the ka is the reliability and the fact none of these kids dare to open it up and actual build the motor. So far I like the sr hasn't given me any issues yet just telling you what I've noticed. I've never really seen a built ka vs built sr with similar builds go at it so its harder to judge which of the two is better. Stock for stock though the sr wins hands down. I have seen some pretty quick n/a ka's make some of those guys at Kms with sr's look bad though lol.

I simply cant fathom comparing engines based on a novelty "race". I understand what you're saying.... but i put no value on the results. You're intentionally making your car go around the track in a slow and inefficient manner... then comparing the ability of the engine to do this.

[Sinfix_15]

Anyone else find it funny that nelson was bringing up sinfix's word games, but he kept repeating the same thing by twisting the words around and using synonyms of words he had already used until someone finally agreed with his argument?

"word games" is moron speak and loosely translates to "what youre saying is going over my head"

[Sinfix_15]

IMHO doing the whole comparing PSI thing is also very hard. It comes down to CFM more importantly. Unless you are comparing psi on the same setup, it really cannot be compared. PSI =\= flow. Sin's analogy of blowing through a coffee straw and a regular straw is a perfect example.

Still going to respond to your larger post, havnt had much sit down time.

[E36slide]

I simply cant fathom comparing engines based on a novelty "race". I understand what you're saying.... but i put no value on the results. You're intentionally making your car go around the track in a slow and inefficient manner... then comparing the ability of the engine to do this.

Yes new people go slow but people with actual skill arnt going slow at all. 40-50 in a slide is not all that easy. I don't consider it a sport but its fun. I don't consider time attack a motor sport so why shouldn't drifting be any different on comparison. One you're trying to maintain the car on one particular line on the track trying to get the best time where is drifting is based more on style and speed. Being able to go fast and carry momentum into a full lock slide.

Since you don't like drifting I wouldn't think you would get the comparison. Just because one doesn't like baseball doesn't mean it's not a hard sport to play. I'm just stating what I've seen and what I've seen is a closely built ka will out do the sr simply because it doesn't have the low trq needed to carry the momentum through the turns so we have to rely on its ability to rev really high. So every transition I'm having to match rev and keep my rev really high in between clutch kicks. If the ka is built your not having to worry about that since the low end trq is like a crutch giving I don't have to rev so high all the time. You can deff tell they created the ka for trucks in mind. It's very responsive on the low end.

[Echonova]

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/Echonova3/resizephp.jpg

[Black R]

Also, just to show that the "big boy" engines aren't always what you think is king, take some of the cars from JGTC as an example. The all-mighty Supras that ran in JGTC quite commonly used the 3S-GTE and some even used the 3UZ-FE....makes you wonder why they didn't use the 1JZ-GTE (not really all that much of a mystery). In later years, some of the GT-R teams ditched the RB for a VQ as well and in some GT-Rs, SR20s were used.


I believe those motors were used due to displacement limitations in that jgtc class, as well as weight.

[Sinfix_15]

Just to give an update on this matter as more details have been unveiled. It would appear that the highly anticipated world beater of a rb26 s14 turned out to be a bucket.

The white sr s13 is now broken down. Apparently said car that was "sniffing my tail pipes" @ 19psi was actually tuned for 14 psi and it popped on the boost. All the talk about how poor my HP numbers were for the amount of work done.....

well ladies and gentleman.....

This is why. There's a big difference between a well built sr20 that yawns at anything the small turbo can possibly throw at it and a non built sr20 that is running at it's breaking point. This 14 psi car popped @ 19 psi, my sr20 stayed @ 25psi for years. I'd drive it across country @ 25psi.

Another thing Nelson doesnt seem to understand when he flaps his pole polisher about his KA.

None of this matters to me too much as i am retired from the "240sx game", however.... i do still get tingly inside when i get to say i told you so.

[E36slide]

Just to give an update on this matter as more details have been unveiled. It would appear that the highly anticipated world beater of a rb26 s14 turned out to be a bucket.

The white sr s13 is now broken down. Apparently said car that was "sniffing my tail pipes" @ 19psi was actually tuned for 14 psi and it popped on the boost. All the talk about how poor my HP numbers were for the amount of work done.....

well ladies and gentleman.....

This is why. There's a big difference between a well built sr20 that yawns at anything the small turbo can possibly throw at it and a non built sr20 that is running at it's breaking point. This 14 psi car popped @ 19 psi, my sr20 stayed @ 25psi for years. I'd drive it across country @ 25psi.

Another thing Nelson doesnt seem to understand when he flaps his pole polisher about his KA.

None of this matters to me too much as i am retired from the "240sx game", however.... i do still get tingly inside when i get to say i told you so.

Sorry to burst your bubble sinfix but the car didn't pop at all I'm replacing the head gasket only for safe measures for next season sorry if I made it seem as if it was broken down. I didn't have to take it apart I wanted to. I'm OCD and like shit done the right way but the s14 was a bucket.

[Sinfix_15]

Sorry to burst your bubble sinfix but the car didn't pop at all I'm replacing the head gasket only for safe measures for next season sorry if I made it seem as if it was broken down. I didn't have to take it apart I wanted to. I'm OCD and like shit done the right way but the s14 was a bucket.

Aiming more at the false advertising. You talked these cars up when they were in large part a mystery to you, as you are now revealing. Nelson does the same, but 10x worse..... Nelson's car had a dyno sheet and a track time before it fired over. From experience, you cant race cars with receipts.

if the car didnt break, and these are just things you're discovering, thats a different story, but its still false advertisement.

[Catnip]

Thank you for the kind words. Well it's simple, in waiting on parts and had the paint already so why not ? The engine bay looked horrible so it deff needed to be painted. I'm also doing a wire tuck an some other cool stuff. It's my first time actually doing a 240 my way instead of how i usually buy them. That's why I sold pretty much everything Associated its previous owner. I prefer it be my own. I'm literally OCD so I can't in my right mind put the motor back in knowing all the issues that exists.

The car should be 10x better then it was before I got it for sure.


http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w447/Dmoney240/5173AA72-60F8-4177-982B-C31938791752-11835-000009E760D330A5.jpg

This.
Again, not being any kind of way, but I don't know how you let that go unaddressed being OCD. I should snap some close ups of what I've done so far on my bay.

Not to mention the cut out portion. You could take some small hole saws and cut holes on the 4 corners. Then take a mini reciprocating saw or cut off wheel, and cut between the saw holes (connect the dots, if you will). Giving a cut out with radii, instead of nasty, jagged corners.


Then you should have seen it before I did that lol


I'm not comparing bad to really bad, I'm comparing bad to perfection, lol


Well I'm not a professional. I don't think my engine bay looks bad at all. If your being overly picky sure, but this car isn't going to be a show car. It will mainly be at the track. Thanks for the input though.

I could just easily tub the front and get rid of the spots your talking about.

I also didn't cut out those holes the previous owner did. I tried to fix it as best as I could but again I'm not going to be picky over jagged edges in my engine bay especially on a drift car.


lol.

"I'm OCD" to "you're just being picky."

[E36slide]

lol.

"I'm OCD" to "you're just being picky."

I'm OCD to an existent. How can I cut a hole to be perfect if its already cut out smart one? I know your just trying to start shit so it's cool. If anything I can mold rubber around the "jagged edges" not that anyone would notice it since my inter cooling piping will be coming through there and the intake pipe off the turbo with mad will be blocking the view of these horrible jagged edges.

Your trying to hard to get sin fix to talk shit about my work. Childish.

[Catnip]

I'm OCD to an existent. How can I cut a hole to be perfect if its already cut out smart one? I know your just trying to start shit so it's cool. If anything I can mold rubber around the "jagged edges" not that anyone would notice it since my inter cooling piping will be coming through there and the intake pipe off the turbo with mad will be blocking the view of these horrible jagged edges.

Your trying to hard to get sin fix to talk shit about my work. Childish.

Lol, give it up. I told you exactly how to do it. I know what I'm talking about, and it won't just be me that thinks your car looks like complete shit.

Sorry for trying to help, but thanks for giving me a good laugh at your poor taste.

and lol again @ "OCD" and "OCD to an extent"

[E36slide]

Lol, give it up. I told you exactly how to do it. I know what I'm talking about, and it won't just be me that thinks your car looks like complete shit.

Sorry for trying to help, but thanks for giving me a good laugh at your poor taste.

and lol again @ "OCD" and "OCD to an extent"

Ok dude. My car isn't for everyone's liking. I'm busting my ass are you? So please save me your bull shit. The car will look and be a lot better then it was so thAts fine by me that your stating my car looks like shit before you even see the finished product. Only negative thing you can come up with was the cut out was bad (which I didn't do). Pathetic, please save your poor argument for someone who cares. I'm not trying to impress Anyone but simply show casing i can build a car better then cb7tuner.

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w447/Dmoney240/177C3379-2141-4B6D-A256-5402116C4F75-11835-000009E85C971EC4.jpg
Before
http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w447/Dmoney240/31F43B90-E4E6-433C-922D-492D7E6EE1BC-11835-000009E768097297.jpg
After

So what your saying is my car looks like shit based of a photo of a car in this condition lololololol oh shit guys I have jagged edges in my engine bay!!!!! Wow you must be the holly grail of building cars. Excuse me while I bow down and kiss your feet.

[Catnip]

lol. Don't be mad at me because your car looks like shit.

Spray paint. Spray paint on half ass cut off brackets. Spray paint on half ass cut holes. Spray paint on rubber. Spray paint on wires. Spray paint on bolts. Spray paint on the latch. Spray paint on heater core. Spray paint on a/c lines. Spray paint on brake lines. Spray paint on half of the hinges. Spray paint on the wiper assembly. Did I mention it's spray painted? And let me guess, if I saw it in person, I'd see a lot of obvious places that don't even cover the previous color?

I didn't make your car look like shit.

If you wouldn't go around repping "OCD" like it's a gift from God, I wouldn't think so lowly of your pile. You're not OCD and this isn't a build.

[E36slide]

lol. Don't be mad at me because your car looks like shit.

Spray paint. Spray paint on half ass cut off brackets. Spray paint on half ass cut holes. Spray paint on rubber. Spray paint on wires. Spray paint on bolts. Spray paint on the latch. Spray paint on heater core. Spray paint on a/c lines. Spray paint on brake lines. Spray paint on half of the hinges. Spray paint on the wiper assembly. Did I mention it's spray painted? And let me guess, if I saw it in person, I'd see a lot of obvious places that don't even cover the previous color?

I didn't make your car look like shit.

If you wouldn't go around repping "OCD" like it's a gift from God, I wouldn't think so lowly of your pile. You're not OCD and this isn't a build.

Lol wow guy you try to hard.

You are making this website shit FYI.

I'm not a professional therefore you can't expect professional body and paint work. Jokes on you though.... Brake lines will be steal braided. Wiper assembly isn't even there all plastic pieces are in the garage. Wires will be pulled and re done and re wrapped. Did I mention this wasn't the finished product ? I guess you have a hard time reading let me type slower for you.... T h I s I s n o t t h e f I n I s h e d p r o d u c t.

My car is a pile ok thanks for the criticism guy. Now my gf would like to use my dick so would you be so kind to give it back or are you not done riding it ?

[Catnip]

Lol wow guy you try to hard.

You are making this website shit FYI.

I'm not a professional therefore you can't expect professional body and paint work. Jokes on you though.... Brake lines will be steal braided. Wiper assembly isn't even there all plastic pieces are in the garage. Wires will be pulled and re done and re wrapped. Did I mention this wasn't the finished product ? I guess you have a hard time reading let me type slower for you.... T h I s I s n o t t h e f I n I s h e d p r o d u c t.

My car is a pile ok thanks for the criticism guy. Now my gf would like to use my dick so would you be so kind to give it back or are you not done riding it ?

lol. You own and drive the car... the joke is, most definitely, on you.

[E36slide]

Giving y'all's so called intelligence level I would expect more. Catnip you suck at talking shit. You can't even admit that what I did looks 20x better then it did before which is what I was trying to do. This car will be at drift events every month so chances are this engine bay will e crushed. So why the fuck would I care if I sprayed over the heater core lines or bolts you stupid fuck. You have to be the dumbest mother fucker to try and talk shit to me. When I said OCD I ment for the mechanical side of the build as in the wiring and head gasket and all re other crap that was bad. The paint i did as part of down time waiting on parts. For my first time ever in my life painting a engine bay I did a pretty damn good job. No runs; cleared and i tapped off what will still be in the engine bay. I didn't care to pull the brake lines nor did I feel like doing the wiring at that present moment.


I'm done trying to talk to people like you. Your the best we know. Now fuck off pussy.

[E36slide]

lol. You own and drive the car... the joke is, most definitely, on you.

Damn I feel so bad driving my bad ass sil front coupe at drift events. I'm so ashamed.

[Catnip]

I'd be mad as hell, too, if I had to drive that, lol.

[E36slide]

I'd be mad as hell, too, if I had to drive that, lol.

I'm sure your drift car is awesome......oh wait.....

[Catnip]

I'm sure your drift car is awesome......oh wait.....

What drift car? Do I look like some hipster, emo faggot to you?

[Echonova]

Damn I feel so bad driving my bad ass sil front coupe at drift events. I'm so ashamed.Pics?

[E36slide]

What drift car? Do I look like some hipster, emo faggot to you?

Wow you're that dumb lolol

Drifting is a style of driving much like dragging. I'm not emo nor am I hipster. Your moronic comments are over whelming. You hate on drifting because you can't do it or your older and don't understand it. There is a lot of technique and engineering that goes into drifting. As far as my car is concerned its on a high plat form in drifting. what if I said auto x was for sissy ass fags ? Your argument lacks substance your insults are that of a 3 year old. What is it you do ? I bet it involves a parking lot huh....

[E36slide]

Pics?

It's not done yet but soon they will be up I want it to be painted first

[Catnip]

Pics?

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w447/Dmoney240/5173AA72-60F8-4177-982B-C31938791752-11835-000009E760D330A5.jpg

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w447/Dmoney240/F3B85671-E9C9-47F5-841A-9A1CCF577C65-11835-000009E86EF17F4F.jpg

[Catnip]

Wow you're that dumb lolol

Drifting is a style of driving much like dragging. I'm not emo nor am I hipster. Your moronic comments are over whelming. You hate on drifting because you can't do it or your older and don't understand it. There is a lot of technique and engineering that goes into drifting. As far as my car is concerned its on a high plat form in drifting. what if I said auto x was for sissy ass fags ? Your argument lacks substance your insults are that of a 3 year old. What is it you do ? I bet it involves a parking lot huh....

LOL. I'm completely aware that I'm incapable of talking shit, but you're too stupid to talk shit.

[E36slide]

LOL. I'm completely aware that I'm incapable of talking shit, but you're too stupid to talk shit.

Yeah I'm so stupid. Good one.

[Catnip]

Yeah I'm so stupid. Good one.

That wasn't a joke, lol, but point proven.

[E36slide]

That wasn't a joke, lol, but point proven.

Your point means little to me so were good.

[Echonova]

It's not done yet but soon they will be up I want it to be painted firstI meant drifting pics...




Had a blonde moment, realized there hasn't been any drifting events in the short time you've owned the car (I think, don't really pay attention to the schedule anymore).

[E36slide]

I meant drifting pics...




Had a blonde moment, realized there hasn't been any drifting events in the short time you've owned the car (I think, don't really pay attention to the schedule anymore).

Cordele ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkpHi9PmM_4&sns=em


Sent from my iPhone

[Echonova]

Right on!

[Echonova]

Although, one time there was a better time had at Cordele... I wasn't there, but the video speaks for itself.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atlYDSALmRA&list=FLoKW-7BXBHbCPiPhw0_kCxw

[E36slide]

Although, one time there was a better time had at Cordele... I wasn't there, but the video speaks for itself.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atlYDSALmRA&list=FLoKW-7BXBHbCPiPhw0_kCxw

Miles and d rock

[Echonova]

... and Mathew AM/PM and...

[E36slide]

... and Mathew AM/PM and...

I didn't notice the other cars I only noticed those two. Half of those guys don't even have those cars or have had 4-5 cars since then so it's hard to keep up lol just noticed the blue miata an the papa johns 240 because I've seen them drive those cars