Pics from the "Vintage Class" oldschool meet brought to you by the Burn Unit & GZ

[TheVengeance]

Man.. for a last minute call up my oldschool friends this was an AWESOME meetup..


It was all about QUALITY rather than quantity at this one.. every car was well done.. even if it wasnt clean!

We metup at Brook Run park then took a quick run on the streets then got some food then met again across from our shop Garage Zero to get these last shots..


anyways heres my shitty camera phone pics of the quick Vintage Class meet.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23125641_zps2133490a.jpg
there was a 69 Lemans there.. waiting for pics of it.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23155141_zpsd1a5e707.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23155119_zpsf4af98a4.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23154931_zpsca62f92f.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23154847_zpseb31f4ec.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23155055_zps359620a3.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23154812_zps60026995.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23155130_zpsee2cc96f.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23154754_zpsd2cd5870.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23154857_zps59bb3aef.jpg


RX7 with a built Ford 302 V8
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132146_zpse86509dc.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132047_zpse8f0dae1.jpg


super clean AE86
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132114_zps68351138.jpg


1983 TE72 Wagon with a 4AGZE
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132123_zps2b80d339.jpg


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160100_zps9fcf32f2.jpg


Of course yall know my 77 Celica Liftback"Payback"
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160049_zps3799b905.jpg


510 with a KA.. fresh from the autocross.. literally.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160040_zps80acd79e.jpg


1972 S30 with a tripple webbered L28
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160013_zps03a03ad3.jpg


R31 Skyline 4door with an RB series motor.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160031_zps6ea5009d.jpg
ahahha.. square eyes clique.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23161000_zps59fc52ec.jpg


a 1973 S30 with a Turbo L series.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160002_zps75cd5265.jpg


and seriously the cleanest ride there.. MINT.. and i do mean MINT 510 Wagon.
my crappy phone pics DONT DO THIS CAR JUSTICE.. half of us wanted to sell ours and buy it off homie.. ahaha
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23160023_zps0ae9b64c.jpg




so to the rest of yall..


http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therapist-within/files/2011/07/wish-you-were-here-G-Gawne-Kelnar1.jpg




And for anyone who couldnt make it we missed yall.. tell your friends.. come out to the next one!!!!

every Sunday on the THIRD week of each month!

at: 1PM
Liane Levetan Park at Brook Run
4770 N. Peachtree Rd. 30338

only the years 1910-to 1987


Or anything up to BOXY 80s SHAPED years.. im still learning what cutoff years still allow stuff like E30s and MK2 golfs..

[D3UC3S]

Hopefully i can make the next meet with my cousin. We'll bring a couple of 510's. One of them was TurboToms old car.

[Sinfix_15]

i want a 510!........

i thought that v8 1st gen was my old car until i saw it didnt have a sunroof.

[bu villain]

A couple more S30s wouldn't hurt. See ya'll next time.

[Elbow]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132047_zpse8f0dae1.jpg

:(

[quickdodge®]

Keep us updated, Vengeance. I'm going to do what I can to make the next one.

[TheVengeance]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23132047_zpse8f0dae1.jpg

:(

I figured you wouldnt like it Simon... but Andrew sure didnt look sad at the monster rumble that emanated out of the hood and peeled the hell off at the end of the day.. on top of that, the kid hand built the engine and car himself.. and i mean.. himself.

so.. yep im sure many wont agree.. and im not say I do.. but I love seeing a youngin get his ride together, with his own money(that he maxed out)made good reliable power, and kinda let everyone know that the V8 is respected for a good reason....

and the dude is 22 years old..

*puts arm around his shoulder and smiles like a real OG would.


also that 69 I was talmbout..

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/2012-09-23125641_zps2133490a.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/IMAG0010.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/IMAG0011.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/IMAG0013.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/IMAG0008.jpg

[quickdodge®]

I figured you wouldnt like it Simon... but Andrew sure didnt look sad at the monster rumble that emanated out of the hood and peeled the hell off at the end of the day.. on top of that, the kid hand built the engine and car himself.. and i mean.. himself.

so.. yep im sure many wont agree.. and im not say I do.. but I love seeing a youngin get his ride together, with his own money(that he maxed out)made good reliable power, and kinda let everyone know that the V8 is respected for a good reason....

and the dude is 22 years old..

*puts arm around his shoulder and smiles like a real OG would.

For real. He'd been talking about that build for a while. I'm not a fan of it, myself, but for him to put all that together himself? Dammit, boy. I could wish I had half the knowledge he has.

[TheATLien]

77 Celica...one question...is that lip is it the mk1 duckbill lip?i ordered one like a week ago

[TheVengeance]

nah its actually a lip made for those year Celicas.. from Foxau2.

[RandomGuy]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580433_473458532687124_1946483585_n.jpg

one day...

[TheVengeance]

holy shit.. i was about to say.. BRING THAT OUT...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XXPeSvULzRw/TzH3JFbHWyI/AAAAAAAAAIo/LEHF6752uWk/s1600/nao.JPG
!!!!!

[Sinfix_15]

For real. He'd been talking about that build for a while. I'm not a fan of it, myself, but for him to put all that together himself? Dammit, boy. I could wish I had half the knowledge he has.

The 302 1st gen swap is literally the easiest swap known to man. It takes about 30 minutes to prep a 1st gen rx7 for a 302 to be installed into it. I did a 302 swap 1st gen in 1 day.




Simon, throw your rotary in a river and get with the program!!!:goodjob:

[D3UC3S]

Hahahaha. Simon knows how easy it is. Flip the K member, re-wire, bend some exhaust, and burn rubber...

[Elbow]

The 302 1st gen swap is literally the easiest swap known to man. It takes about 30 minutes to prep a 1st gen rx7 for a 302 to be installed into it. I did a 302 swap 1st gen in 1 day.




Simon, throw your rotary in a river and get with the program!!!:goodjob:

If I wanted a V8 I'd buy a Mustang or something. That would be stupid, especially considering it's a race car and I'd get butt raped racing against stock cars.

[Sinfix_15]

If I wanted a V8 I'd buy a Mustang or something. That would be stupid, especially considering it's a race car and I'd get butt raped racing against stock cars.

why do all you import people think v8s are heavy................?

it's 2012.............................................. . we're not talking about your granpa's chevelle.

A from the factory 302 weighs 506 lbs.
A from the factory 12a weighs 375 lbs.

302 alum heads drops 90 lbs.
R302 block drops 85 lbs.
302 AC compressor weighs 18 lbs
Carb vs EFI intake would probably be 20lbs, i'm guessing from personal experience, couldnt find the actual weight.

So, 506 = 128 lbs, not gonna include the block since that's not a common mod.

378 lbs.......................

I wonder if the extra 3 lbs of weight would be worth the power difference.... hmmmm...... let me do some figuring on my calculator and get back to you.

[silversol]

why do all you import people think v8s are heavy................?

it's 2012.............................................. . we're not talking about your granpa's chevelle.

A from the factory 302 weighs 506 lbs.
A from the factory 12a weighs 375 lbs.

302 alum heads drops 90 lbs.
R302 block drops 85 lbs.
302 AC compressor weighs 18 lbs
Carb vs EFI intake would probably be 20lbs, i'm guessing from personal experience, couldnt find the actual weight.

So, 506 = 128 lbs, not gonna include the block since that's not a common mod.

378 lbs.......................

I wonder if the extra 3 lbs of weight would be worth the power difference.... hmmmm...... let me do some figuring on my calculator and get back to you.



I love to see a v8 It looks like a fun car to me! And yes im sure anything you put in place of a rotary adds weight. hell you could store a rotory engine in a milk crete! I wonder how this would do with a light weight ls1? The has got me thinking about looking for a mazda since I have 2 perfect 302s sitting around on of which is a gt40p 302!

[David88vert]

I've driven several V8 RX7s and plenty of rotary powered RX7s. Placement of weight is just as important as the weight itself. Not one V8 stock-chassied RX7 has handled as well as the rotary powered ones - and I've been in all generations. FC is the most forgiving, with the FD next. The SA/FB chassis is already light in the rear, and when you push the weight forward with the V8, it makes the tail snap without any warning, even if you run no rear sway, and run the RB front bar.
If you are only building a drag car, then build a Mustang - it's cheaper, and parts are easily available.
If you are building a cheap track car, then keep the rotary in the RX7 chassis.
If you just want to build a fun street car, go with whatever you are most familiar with, and have the parts and budget for.

[TheVengeance]

okay fellers.. a quick E-flyer I made..

can yall pass this around?...thank you.

lets get the word out so we can have the V8 argument face to face... *GASP!
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/VenomousType/VintageClassFlyer.jpg?t=1348606861

[Elbow]

why do all you import people think v8s are heavy................?

it's 2012.............................................. . we're not talking about your granpa's chevelle.

A from the factory 302 weighs 506 lbs.
A from the factory 12a weighs 375 lbs.

302 alum heads drops 90 lbs.
R302 block drops 85 lbs.
302 AC compressor weighs 18 lbs
Carb vs EFI intake would probably be 20lbs, i'm guessing from personal experience, couldnt find the actual weight.

So, 506 = 128 lbs, not gonna include the block since that's not a common mod.

378 lbs.......................

I wonder if the extra 3 lbs of weight would be worth the power difference.... hmmmm...... let me do some figuring on my calculator and get back to you.

Durrrr where did I say anything about weight?

lol @ me being an "import person."

[nelson9995]

i gave you a thumbs up in my gf's black ek civic on sunday around 5pm by brandsmart

[Sinfix_15]

I've driven several V8 RX7s and plenty of rotary powered RX7s. Placement of weight is just as important as the weight itself. Not one V8 stock-chassied RX7 has handled as well as the rotary powered ones - and I've been in all generations. FC is the most forgiving, with the FD next. The SA/FB chassis is already light in the rear, and when you push the weight forward with the V8, it makes the tail snap without any warning, even if you run no rear sway, and run the RB front bar.
If you are only building a drag car, then build a Mustang - it's cheaper, and parts are easily available.
If you are building a cheap track car, then keep the rotary in the RX7 chassis.
If you just want to build a fun street car, go with whatever you are most familiar with, and have the parts and budget for.

It's not hard to alter the firewall and move the 302 back further in the car. I hammered my firewall wayyyy in when i did the swap, the engine sat pretty deep in the car. If i cared enough to cut it, i could have put it wherever. I guarantee i could come very close to duplicating the geometry of a rotary powered rx7. The only thing i know you couldnt do would be the center of gravity, since the v8 is taller.

The only reason this doesnt get get done is because it doesnt get done. People with the skills and/or budget to do it move on to better projects.

[Sinfix_15]

Durrrr where did I say anything about wait?

lol @ me being an "import person."

That's what you were thinking. Same thing David hinted at. "big heavy engine in the front takes away the car's handling"

"import person" was the wrong label........ "purest" would be a better way to word it. You dont want to put "A" engine into "B" car.

[Elbow]

That's what you were thinking. Same thing David hinted at. "big heavy engine in the front takes away the car's handling"

"import person" was the wrong label........ "purest" would be a better way to word it. You dont want to put "A" engine into "B" car.

That's not what I was thinking at all, I was thinking how uncompetitive it would be. lol

[David88vert]

It's not hard to alter the firewall and move the 302 back further in the car. I hammered my firewall wayyyy in when i did the swap, the engine sat pretty deep in the car. If i cared enough to cut it, i could have put it wherever. I guarantee i could come very close to duplicating the geometry of a rotary powered rx7. The only thing i know you couldnt do would be the center of gravity, since the v8 is taller.

The only reason this doesnt get get done is because it doesnt get done. People with the skills and/or budget to do it move on to better projects.

I agree. Yes, I know that you can cut the firewall and move it back. You could also build a complete tube chassis and custom make a fiberglass body. There are lots of things that you could do - but the average swap doesn't do these things - and neither did this install. I happen to know how to balance out the suspension, and am able to drive around the extra weight on the nose - again, not something that the average swap has/can do.

For the same amount of time/money/effort, you could get an old Mustang that already has a 302 in it, pop on a Maximum Motorsports Road & Track kit, and some good tires and brakes, and run better times at the track.
Or get a MM Launch Box if you wanted to go to the strip.

[RandomGuy]

puttin a ford motor into a RX-7?

that's almost as weird as this guy:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/juanrapr/rotarymustang.jpg

lolol!

[Elbow]

puttin a ford motor into a RX-7?

that's almost as weird as this guy:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/juanrapr/rotarymustang.jpg

lolol!

That's so awesome. lol

[CSquared]

They started making my car in 86. Does that qualify? Don't make me drive the busted celica supra :/

[Sinfix_15]

That's not what I was thinking at all, I was thinking how uncompetitive it would be. lol

The only reason it would be uncompetitive is because swapping the engine would land you in a class vs heavily modified cars. If i could put a 302 in a 1st gen rx7 and race vs nothing but other 1st gen rx7s...... there would be a lot of weedeater powered rx7s getting lapped.

[David88vert]

puttin a ford motor into a RX-7?

that's almost as weird as this guy:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/juanrapr/rotarymustang.jpg

lolol!

When the ECU died in my foxbody, I came really close to dropping in my 13b-rew race motor. I held off and just bought an EMS instead. Was a close decision though at the time.

[Sinfix_15]

I agree. Yes, I know that you can cut the firewall and move it back. You could also build a complete tube chassis and custom make a fiberglass body. There are lots of things that you could do - but the average swap doesn't do these things - and neither did this install. I happen to know how to balance out the suspension, and am able to drive around the extra weight on the nose - again, not something that the average swap has/can do.

For the same amount of time/money/effort, you could get an old Mustang that already has a 302 in it, pop on a Maximum Motorsports Road & Track kit, and some good tires and brakes, and run better times at the track.
Or get a MM Launch Box if you wanted to go to the strip. you dont have to be chip foose to move a 302 back 5-6 inches in a 1st gen rx7. The K member is about as complex as a 2x4 and is not connected to the suspension. The engine bay of a 1st gen is a square box with nearly straight across K member bolted to it. The fact that you can flip it around backwards without effecting the car in any way should explain the simplicity of this vehicle. The only thing preventing you from moving the engine backwards is the firewall.

The only reason this doesnt get done is because it doesnt get done. The only reason to use a rotary engine is if you like rotary engines. The only reason a rotary will out run a piston on a race track is because of the rule book.

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/1revsubframeford.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

puttin a ford motor into a RX-7?

lolol!

probably more than 1/2 of the rx7s in existence have something other than a rotary engine under their hood.

[Sinfix_15]

When the ECU died in my foxbody, I came really close to dropping in my 13b-rew race motor. I held off and just bought an EMS instead. Was a close decision though at the time.

If i ever saw a rotary powered foxbody........................................... .....

i swear on my mother's life i would whip out my dick right there in the parking lot and piss on this vehicle. I would probably call the police and report it. I'm no lawyer..... but i imagine that crime against humanity would have to be illegal in some way.

[Elbow]

The only reason this doesnt get done is because it doesnt get done. The only reason to use a rotary engine is if you like rotary engines. The only reason a rotary will out run a piston on a race track is because of the rule book.

Not completely true. Many people choose to run a rotary other than just liking them and many have won and beaten V8 powered cars in classes with very limited rules.

$10,000 to build a V8 or rotary, you can guarantee the V8 will be the better motor?

We've had this discussion before, so I won't get into it as you like V8s and I like rotaries, I don't have anything against V8s and my love is clearly in road racing where rotaries are great engines, not just because of the rules. If I were building a drag car I'd probably go V8 over anything else, and don't get me wrong I love a high revving V8 in a road race car too.

[Elbow]

probably more than 1/2 of the rx7s in existence have something other than a rotary engine under their hood.

I doubt that.

The only reason you see so many V8 RX-7s these days is too many kids get them and either see the BS pics that go around bashing the rotary or hear horror stories from other ex-rotary owners that knew nothing about them and blew them up.

Personally I don't get it, buy an RX-7 to have a rotary, want a V8? Buy a V8 powered car or buy something like a 240 to drop a V8 in if you want the swap. That's just me though. I know it's cheaper to make power from a V8, but still...

[Sinfix_15]

Not completely true. Many people choose to run a rotary other than just liking them and many have won and beaten V8 powered cars in classes with very limited rules.

$10,000 to build a V8 or rotary, you can guarantee the V8 will be the better motor?

We've had this discussion before, so I won't get into it as you like V8s and I like rotaries, I don't have anything against V8s and my love is clearly in road racing where rotaries are great engines, not just because of the rules. If I were building a drag car I'd probably go V8 over anything else, and don't get me wrong I love a high revving V8 in a road race car too.

And i clearly proved you wrong. Rotary powered vehicles win races the same way the Seahawks beat the Packers. The rulebook allows rotaries to compete. Yes, 10k budget i could build a nonrotary rx7 that would easily beat a rotary rx7 and that's even factoring in that half of my budget would be spent swapping engines. Lets say i had an rx7 with a stock ls1 in it and you had a rx7 with a stock 12a in it. Give us both 10k to mod, what happens?


I doubt that.

The only reason you see so many V8 RX-7s these days is too many kids get them and either see the BS pics that go around bashing the rotary or hear horror stories from other ex-rotary owners that knew nothing about them and blew them up.

Personally I don't get it, buy an RX-7 to have a rotary, want a V8? Buy a V8 powered car or buy something like a 240 to drop a V8 in if you want the swap. That's just me though. I know it's cheaper to make power from a V8, but still...

The rx7 is an amazing vehicle and worthy of it's lore. I love rx7s. Rx7 is probably my favorite car period.......

but rotary engines are shit. a lot of people feel the same way, we're not gonna let that pathetic excuse for an engine keep us from enjoying rx7s.

[Elbow]

And i clearly proved you wrong. Rotary powered vehicles win races the same way the Seahawks beat the Packers. The rulebook allows rotaries to compete. Yes, 10k budget i could build a nonrotary rx7 that would easily beat a rotary rx7 and that's even factoring in that half of my budget would be spent swapping engines. Lets say i had an rx7 with a stock ls1 in it and you had a rx7 with a stock 12a in it. Give us both 10k to mod, what happens?



The rx7 is an amazing vehicle and worthy of it's lore. I love rx7s. Rx7 is probably my favorite car period.......

but rotary engines are shit. a lot of people feel the same way, we're not gonna let that pathetic excuse for an engine keep us from enjoying rx7s.

LOL You didn't even remotely prove me wrong, you ignored everything I stated. Your example was the 787B, which is the worst example. Rule books tried to push rotaries out, they never gave them the upper hand in professional racing. Your argument in that arena is hilarious.

Take the same car and same weight. One with a rotary one with an LS. $10,000 to spend on the engine ONLY. See which would win. Could be the V8, could be the rotary. Who knows. Comparing a 12A to an LS is just stupid though, I could be stupid and argue that a PP 12A would probably beat a stock LS, except my engine would costs more than a stock LS. lol

In my opinion the rotary MAKES the RX-7. There are other chassis out there just as able.

Stupid rotary race cars...

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4114/4898335317_5ab643a225_z.jpg

[Elbow]

And for the record, I probably sound like I'm saying the rotary is the best engine ever made and was hated on so was never king but I'm not. lol

[Genji-Sama]

....ur celica.....is. GAHDLIKE. :goodjob:

[TheVengeance]

They started making my car in 86. Does that qualify? Don't make me drive the busted celica supra :/



what car do you drive?

if its an 86 then you all good.. if its an 89 but has 86 looks then you all good.. if your car is a 90 but looks like an 86 you all good!!


I got a gang of new oldschoolers coming.. im stoked about that.

[TheVengeance]

i gave you a thumbs up in my gf's black ek civic on sunday around 5pm by brandsmart

who me?

[TheVengeance]

....ur celica.....is. GAHDLIKE. :goodjob:


thank you playa!.. shes a keeper.

[Sinfix_15]

LOL You didn't even remotely prove me wrong, you ignored everything I stated. Your example was the 787B, which is the worst example. Rule books tried to push rotaries out, they never gave them the upper hand in professional racing. Your argument in that arena is hilarious.

Take the same car and same weight. One with a rotary one with an LS. $10,000 to spend on the engine ONLY. See which would win. Could be the V8, could be the rotary. Who knows. Comparing a 12A to an LS is just stupid though, I could be stupid and argue that a PP 12A would probably beat a stock LS, except my engine would costs more than a stock LS. lol

In my opinion the rotary MAKES the RX-7. There are other chassis out there just as able.

Stupid rotary race cars...

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4114/4898335317_5ab643a225_z.jpg

uhhhh...... yes, i won the debate about rotaries in lemans with flying colors.

[Elbow]

uhhhh...... yes, i won the debate about rotaries in lemans with flying colors.

There was no debate about Le Mans though. Read the thread, I discredited the Le Mans win as "the big win" before we even argued it. Despite what you posted though there was no cheating involved, it's called luck, reliability, and the faster cars breaking down.

[David88vert]

If i ever saw a rotary powered foxbody........................................... .....

i swear on my mother's life i would whip out my dick right there in the parking lot and piss on this vehicle. I would probably call the police and report it. I'm no lawyer..... but i imagine that crime against humanity would have to be illegal in some way.

You don't realize that the rotary that I had made a lot more power than my 302 stock block ever could, do you?

[David88vert]

The only reason it would be uncompetitive is because swapping the engine would land you in a class vs heavily modified cars. If i could put a 302 in a 1st gen rx7 and race vs nothing but other 1st gen rx7s...... there would be a lot of weedeater powered rx7s getting lapped.

Build one, and I will go grab a GSL-SE and do a few suspension mods, and we can go to the track. I'm pretty sure that I will be able to lap you in a session on Road A. 302 makes about 180-190 rwhp stock, and I can easily get a 13b up to 150-160 rwhp with minor effort.

[David88vert]

And i clearly proved you wrong. Rotary powered vehicles win races the same way the Seahawks beat the Packers. The rulebook allows rotaries to compete. Yes, 10k budget i could build a nonrotary rx7 that would easily beat a rotary rx7 and that's even factoring in that half of my budget would be spent swapping engines. Lets say i had an rx7 with a stock ls1 in it and you had a rx7 with a stock 12a in it. Give us both 10k to mod, what happens?


The better driver will win, that is what will happen. $10K isn't needed for a rotary - period. Half of the money would be better spend on suspension, tires, etc.

Stock LS swap will run more than $5k. I sold a turboed 13b-REW complete setup with EMS and turbo/IC making more than 600rwhp for $3500. Good luck finding LS swaps for that.

[Sinfix_15]

There was no debate about Le Mans though. Read the thread, I discredited the Le Mans win as "the big win" before we even argued it. Despite what you posted though there was no cheating involved, it's called luck, reliability, and the faster cars breaking down.

Your memory does not serve you well.

Here is what you thought happened.
"zomg rotary won because rotary so awesome!!!!! YAYYYYYY!!!"

Here is the reality of what happened.
Rotary showed up, looked pathetic, got destroyed by every car on the track and was not competitive and was allowed to remove about 1/3 of the cars weight. acknowledging this advantage and their inability to actually out run other cars, Mazda ran a tire/fuel saving strategy and out lasted much faster cars and won the race without posting a single fastest lap.

You thought using a rotary saved a hundred pounds or so and was not a factor. You were unaware that the rotary was allowed to removed 500ish pounds from a 2000 pound car which was an insane advantage.


This is pretty much the case anytime a rotary is on a race track. It's never the better engine, but the rule book offers advantages.

[Elbow]

Your memory does not serve you well.

Here is what you thought happened.
"zomg rotary won because rotary so awesome!!!!! YAYYYYYY!!!"

Here is the reality of what happened.
Rotary showed up, looked pathetic, got destroyed by every car on the track and was not competitive and was allowed to remove about 1/3 of the cars weight. acknowledging this advantage and their inability to actually out run other cars, Mazda ran a tire/fuel saving strategy and out lasted much faster cars and won the race without posting a single fastest lap.

You thought using a rotary saved a hundred pounds or so and was not a factor. You were unaware that the rotary was allowed to removed 500ish pounds from a 2000 pound car which was an insane advantage.


This is pretty much the case anytime a rotary is on a race track. It's never the better engine, but the rule book offers advantages.

You have NEVER seen me say the rotary won Le Mans because it was awesome. EVER.

Do you not read? Aside from ignoring every word I say, where are you even getting your information? Why are you even debating Le Mans when I have said, in this very thread, in the quote you quoted me on, that I never argued Le Mans and never said it was Mazdas big achievement for the rotary.

Saying it was slower than everything else though is comical, it wasn't the fastest, but out right speed doesn't always win endurance races. Once again, I said it was pure luck.

I also find it funny you act like I'm some stupid kid with no idea how racing works, rules, or history behind anything when you're contradicting yourself.

Go read rule books, review results, then get back with me. Until then, you're just throwing out BS. Saying rule books offer advantages to the rotary is just retarded. Do you think rule makers don't know anything they're writing? Explain why the air restrictors on the last rotary LMP cars were so small they were putting down GT horsepower. Silly rule books always favoring rotary engines.

[Sinfix_15]

You don't realize that the rotary that I had made a lot more power than my 302 stock block ever could, do you?

i wouldnt care if your rotary made 3000hp, it has no business under the hood of a foxbody.

[Sinfix_15]

Do you not read? Aside from ignoring every word I say, where are you even getting your information?

Go read rule books, review results, then get back with me. Until then, you're just throwing out BS.

So now your argument is to say that what im saying is not true?

Ok.

[Elbow]

So now your argument is to say that what im saying is not true?

Ok.

I added more. lol

Not true about what? Le Mans? Show me where you're finding that, from what I always understood though there were two prototype classes, as that was the year the new F1 prototypes came out. The older cars faced a weight penalty as we typically see to make teams buy the new cars but the 787B was allowed to run at the new class weight versus adding weight like the others. Is that cheating or why it won? Definitely not. lol

Like you said, it was so slow who cared if it was a little lighter, right?

[Sinfix_15]

Need to send emails to rutroe about this. Topgear show about v8 swaps vs originals.

[Sinfix_15]

I added more. lol

Not true about what? Le Mans? Show me where you're finding that, from what I always understood though there were two prototype classes, as that was the year the new F1 prototypes came out. The older cars faced a weight penalty as we typically see to make teams buy the new cars but the 787B was allowed to run at the new class weight versus adding weight like the others. Is that cheating or why it won? Definitely not. lol

Like you said, it was so slow who cared if it was a little lighter, right?

it wasnt a "little lighter".... it was much lighter. That is the only reason it won. I've spelled it out for you in the past. You take your time to research and prove me wrong.... if you can.... and if not, im going to go on enjoying my day and no longer waste any of my brain cells thinking about rotary engines.

[Elbow]

it wasnt a "little lighter".... it was much lighter. That is the only reason it won. I've spelled it out for you in the past. You take your time to research and prove me wrong.... if you can.... and if not, im going to go on enjoying my day and no longer waste any of my brain cells thinking about rotary engines.

That is not the reason why it won, you proved nothing by saying that, if that was the case why didn't the prototypes with the same weight won? Reliability and luck.

Like I said, it won because the faster cars broke, it was reliable, and they had good luck. It didn't matter on weight, what engine was in it, or what lap times it ran. WATCH the race, see how it unfolded, you will see it wouldn't have won otherwise. They ran a good clean race, the engine never had an issue, the car was solid, why argue that they won because they had an advantage? lol

[David88vert]

i wouldnt care if your rotary made 3000hp, it has no business under the hood of a foxbody.

No different than sticking a 302 in an Rx7.

[TheVengeance]

you guys are hilarious..

[Sinfix_15]

That is not the reason why it won, you proved nothing by saying that, if that was the case why didn't the prototypes with the same weight won? Reliability and luck.

Like I said, it won because the faster cars broke, it was reliable, and they had good luck. It didn't matter on weight, what engine was in it, or what lap times it ran. WATCH the race, see how it unfolded, you will see it wouldn't have won otherwise. They ran a good clean race, the engine never had an issue, the car was solid, why argue that they won because they had an advantage? lol

So you're saying being 1/4th lighter than the other cars was not a factor in reliability? The weight of the car doesnt effect the stress on the gearbox? brakes? tires? shocks?

The 787b did not record a single fastest lap. It qualified 17th. It received additional weight reduction because it wasnt a competitive car. Rotary engines in a even format will not win. If you give everyone a car that weighs X amount with the same tires, same body, same everything...... but allow them to use whatever engine they want, the rotary car will not be competitive.

there's a reason rotaries are not more common in the auto industry.

[Sinfix_15]

No different than sticking a 302 in an Rx7.

Putting a v8 in a rx7 is correcting a mistake.

[metalmatt47]

What? Why so much bitching here?





Back on topic.

Turnout looked awesome. i'll likely be at the next one, so I'll bring my Nikon and get some neat pics.

[Sinfix_15]

The white 510....... price?

[Elbow]

So you're saying being 1/4th lighter than the other cars was not a factor in reliability? The weight of the car doesnt effect the stress on the gearbox? brakes? tires? shocks?

The 787b did not record a single fastest lap. It qualified 17th. It received additional weight reduction because it wasn't a competitive car. Rotary engines in a even format will not win. If you give everyone a car that weighs X amount with the same tires, same body, same everything...... but allow them to use whatever engine they want, the rotary car will not be competitive.

there's a reason rotaries are not more common in the auto industry.

I'm telling you not getting the extra weight the other cars in its class got did not effect reliability, can that up your fuel mileage and tire length? Yeah. Did the other cars suffer reliability issues from weight? No. Why didn't the cars with the same weight as the 787B win? If they added 2000lbs sure, maybe you'd have serious issues, but saying they only won because they didn't get the weight penalty other cars in the class did and were allowed to run the same weight as the new class is just stupid. But this is racing, teams do countless hours of testing, obviously parts are made to last and weight is a factor in those tests.

Go look at Le Mans results, you think every winning car sets the fastest lap?? lol It didn't receive weight REDUCTION, it wasn't forced to ADD weight as the older cars were, the newer cars ran just as light as the 787B but all had mechanical issues. I love how you're still arguing Le Mans though, it's the ONLY thing you could find that benefited the rotary and you're trying to sell it like hot cakes. You ignored everything else I ever said and you're sticking to this one race, which they happened to win. The underdogs beat the big boys, BIG DEAL. They didn't cheat, they were allowed to run the same weight as the top class prototypes, they got lucky and won overall. Simple as that.

NEWS FLASH: RACING IS NEVER AN EQUAL FORMAT UNLESS IT'S A SPEC CLASS. COMPETITION ADJUSTMENTS ARE MADE FOR ANY CAR, V8, V10, 4 CYLINDER, ROTARY. However, all equal cars, all equal HP, all equal weight, I don't see why the rotary wouldn't be just as competitive. It's a different kind of power and a different kind of driving technique. It's also funny that you keep saying rotaries get benefits in racing when it's typically the opposite, in professional sports car racing, specifically prototypes, rotaries have seemed to always face restrictions that would make them restricted and underpowered. Would they dominate everything if they could run at the same power as a piston car? Probably not, but they would have done better.

Rotaries aren't common in the AUTO INDUSTRY such as the street because they don't get that great of fuel mileage, many mechanics won't care to figure them out, and once again as far as economy goes it just doesn't make sense. In racing, different story, they are extremely popular in just about every type of racing. They are reliable, competitive, easy to work on, and make great race engines out of the box.

When will you realize how stupid this argument is? You're arguing your opinion, simple as that. You don't like rotaries and it pisses you off that anyone else does. The ONLY argument you have is from Le Mans in 1991. You ignore every other championship won by a rotary vehicle, every race win, and stick to Le Mans, despite the fact that nobody claimed that win as being the holy grail of the rotary success and that winning that had anything to do with it having a rotary. If it had a 4 cylinder it would be the same exact argument.

Go read the rule books and tell me where the rotary benefits and in which class. Until you do that, you're speaking baseless BS. Hell, according to your theory, rotary race cars should be dominating left and right because of their awesome class benefits. "Oh you have a rotary, here take 2,000lbs off we want you to be much faster than everything else."

I'd be glad to post some rules here for you to see how either cars are all made to be competitive, or how in some cases the rotary has faced hardship. I'm not saying the rotary was always faced with hate or something, I'm just saying they have had it harder than others before. I believe one of the reasons they were sort of pushed away in prototype races is they're too hard to make rules for. That and they wouldn't be competitive today in current ACO type sports car racing. For example in some classes the size of the rotary engine is literally multiplied by two to put it in a higher displacement class. Rule makers aren't stupid enough to say "oh, little engine, race with these Civics."

Example: SCCA GT2

20B (NA of course): 40mm restrictor, cc listed as 3924. Actual 20B cc listed as 1962cc, multiply that by two.

I'm not saying it's bad, as the RX-7 typically does well in GT2, although I don't think I see many 20Bs racing in it, but just an example. Anyone know what HP that would make? I believe a PP 13B in GT2 runs around 300 - 330whp so it would have to be similar.

[David88vert]

So you're saying being 1/4th lighter than the other cars was not a factor in reliability? The weight of the car doesnt effect the stress on the gearbox? brakes? tires? shocks?

The 787b did not record a single fastest lap. It qualified 17th. It received additional weight reduction because it wasnt a competitive car. Rotary engines in a even format will not win. If you give everyone a car that weighs X amount with the same tires, same body, same everything...... but allow them to use whatever engine they want, the rotary car will not be competitive.

there's a reason rotaries are not more common in the auto industry.



Lighter weight definitely impacts wear on tires and brakes. It is a major factor. The lower torque also helps the tires last longer - perhaps the V8s need to reduce their torque to manage their tires better?
The rotary correctly assembled is extremely reliable though, especially in race configurations. There is a reason that rotarys are used in mini500 helicopters - and that was reliability with staying at high revolutions for extended periods of time. You won't see a V8 from a car put into anything like a helicopter, where you life depends on reliability.

In racing, the fastest car is the one that wins the race, by completing the race in the shortest period of time - not who turns the fastest lap. The fastest lap only matters in qualifying, when you are working to get your grid position.

Rotarys have been competitive in racing for decades, and all of their competitors have been piston-powered.

[David88vert]

Putting a v8 in a rx7 is correcting a mistake.

So, if the rotary outperforms the V8 in a foxbody, wouldn't that be correcting a mistake also?

You have no logic in your reasoning, and it sounds like you have been raped by one too many rotarys.

[Sinfix_15]

Lighter weight definitely impacts wear on tires and brakes. It is a major factor. The lower torque also helps the tires last longer - perhaps the V8s need to reduce their torque to manage their tires better?
The rotary correctly assembled is extremely reliable though, especially in race configurations. There is a reason that rotarys are used in mini500 helicopters - and that was reliability with staying at high revolutions for extended periods of time. You won't see a V8 from a car put into anything like a helicopter, where you life depends on reliability.

In racing, the fastest car is the one that wins the race, by completing the race in the shortest period of time - not who turns the fastest lap. The fastest lap only matters in qualifying, when you are working to get your grid position.

Rotarys have been competitive in racing for decades, and all of their competitors have been piston-powered.

I dont need a shop class lesson.

787b was approx 500 pounds lighter than the minimum required weight of 2000 pounds for it's class. 1/4 total weight advantage is a major factor. I cant think of a single aspect of racing or a car's mechanics that would not be effected by that much of a weight difference.

When this car was forced to follow the rules for weight, it was not a competitive car and finished in the double digits. When it qualified at the required weight, it qualified 17th or lower. On race day, even with a 1/4 weight advantage, it did not post a single fastest lap of the day.

There is nothing you can possibly say to convince me that the weight of this car was not the #1 reason that it won.

This is the example i am using because this is the most notable race victory in the history of rotary engines.

[Sinfix_15]

So, if the rotary outperforms the V8 in a foxbody, wouldn't that be correcting a mistake also?

You have no logic in your reasoning, and it sounds like you have been raped by one too many rotarys.

Ford has been way more successful in racing than Mazda. Unlike Mazda, Ford makes the engine you need to win races.

But..... you may be on to something Dr Phil, i do have bad past experiences with Rotary engines...... i almost burned to death in a rotary powered vehicle that caught on fire.

[Elbow]

Ford has been way more successful in racing than Mazda. Unlike Mazda, Ford makes the engine you need to win races.

But..... you may be on to something Dr Phil, i do have bad past experiences with Rotary engines...... i almost burned to death in a rotary powered vehicle that caught on fire.

Really? Ford has more success? Now you really are spitting out BS. Tell me how many sports car championships Ford won versus Mazda.

Did the 787 even go on to race more? Nobody has argued that it was slower than the other cars. You always argue some stupid point that isn't being discussed.

[Sinfix_15]

Really? Ford has more success? Now you really are spitting out BS. Tell me how many sports car championships Ford won versus Mazda.

Did the 787 even go on to race more? Nobody has argued that it was slower than the other cars. You always argue some stupid point that isn't being discussed.

Rotary racing history is not being discussed?

[Sinfix_15]

I'll spell it out for you AGAIN sometime over the weekend, places to be atm. TTYL.

[metalmatt47]

Seriously? Cut that shit out. No matter what you guys say, you're going to disagree so It's not worth saying.

[Elbow]

Rotary racing history is not being discussed?

Well if you say something like that then obviously you need to back it up.


Seriously? Cut that shit out. No matter what you guys say, you're going to disagree so It's not worth saying.

GTFO. Don't rain down on our fun! lol

Plus only one of us is speaking opinions. lol

[Sinfix_15]

Seriously? Cut that shit out. No matter what you guys say, you're going to disagree so It's not worth saying.

Sounds good to me, i was tired of talking about this the first time.

I want that white 510 badly.

[David88vert]

I dont need a shop class lesson.

787b was approx 500 pounds lighter than the minimum required weight of 2000 pounds for it's class. 1/4 total weight advantage is a major factor. I cant think of a single aspect of racing or a car's mechanics that would not be effected by that much of a weight difference.

When this car was forced to follow the rules for weight, it was not a competitive car and finished in the double digits. When it qualified at the required weight, it qualified 17th or lower. On race day, even with a 1/4 weight advantage, it did not post a single fastest lap of the day.

There is nothing you can possibly say to convince me that the weight of this car was not the #1 reason that it won.

This is the example i am using because this is the most notable race victory in the history of rotary engines.

Looks like you do need more race class - the engine does not make a package win. It is the complete system - car, driver, team, etc.


The weight difference was 375 lbs not 500. And yes, 375 lbs is still significant. They were required to weigh in at 1830, while other C2's came in at 2205 (83%, not 75%). Were you aware that they also limited the power to 700hp from 900hp? That was strategic to increasing the reliability and fuel consumption.
Also, they qualified 12th, but were pushed back 7 places, as the 3.5 tired cars were given the first 7 spots. So, they had to come from 19th to 1st. Must have been a slow car to have done that.

If you think that weight alone is what caused a victory in an endurance race, then you have no clue about racing. It is only one factor, albeit an important one.

[David88vert]

Ford has been way more successful in racing than Mazda. Unlike Mazda, Ford makes the engine you need to win races.

But..... you may be on to something Dr Phil, i do have bad past experiences with Rotary engines...... i almost burned to death in a rotary powered vehicle that caught on fire.

As you are obviously aware, I have no issue with Ford, or Ford powerplants, and yes, Ford has had more overall motorsports victories than Mazda, as they compete in more categories, like off-road truck racing. Mazda has had more sports car class victories though, partially due to many spec classes that specify Mazda engines (Yes, Ford has some too). I though this was a specific discussion though, rather than all motorsports.

I'm guessing that you had a pulsation damper go bad - common problem with the Mazda fuel rail during that time period - but that is not a rotary issue, rather a fuel system design issue. The same fuel rail design on a piston motor would have had the same issue.
What fire did you have that was specifically due to a rotary engine design, and not the external parts, which are common to all motors?

[David88vert]

I want that white 510 badly.

Stand in line. We all want it.
Lots of guys stick rotarys in them, personally, I like them Nissan powered though.

[JITB]

That wagon looks dope!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Sinfix_15]

Stand in line. We all want it.
Lots of guys stick rotarys in them, personally, I like them Nissan powered though.

I've said everything i'm going to say about rotary racing in the other thread.

sr20 seems like it was meant to be inside of a 510, already done the sr20 thing and want more. Next project will be 2jz powered, whatever that project may be.

[Western.]

Sic looking old school rides. Kudos to all!! I'd like to witness one of these big old-school meets sometime…

[bu villain]

Sic looking old school rides. Kudos to all!! I'd like to witness one of these big old-school meets sometime…

How about next month? This is a monthly meet after all.

[Western.]

When and where?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lil Hustler]

I made some copies of this flyer to spread the word to our vintage ATL people!!

[bu villain]

When and where?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Check out flyer on post #19

Liane Levetan Park at Brook Run
4470 N. Peachtree Rd., Atlanta, GA 30338
Just past the skatepark, first large parking lot on the left
Every 3rd Sunday of the Month
Starts at 1pm

[TheVengeance]

word thanks Lil Hustla..