Rice and Ryan Speeches Opinions

[ahabion]

Here are the speeches in the order of their appearance:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukfS2bfP738


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcE1v_Y2hvA

What do you guys think? Just talking points or valid arguments?

I think Condi knocked it out of the park. I think she covered a lot of legit topics that have been 'dismissed' by lesser and unimportant topics.

[.blank cd]

I watched 5 minutes of that Republican National Convention and lost 2837 brain cells and 4 IQ points. What a god damn sideshow this thing is

[Sinfix_15]

I watched 5 minutes of that Republican National Convention and lost 2837 brain cells and 4 IQ points. What a god damn sideshow this thing is

You did exactly what most democrats do and did exactly what got us in this mess to begin with. Ignore the issues and vote for the black guy.

[dc5-rsx]

You did exactly what most democrats do and did exactly what got us in this mess to begin with. Ignore the issues and vote for the black guy.

Vote for the white guy. I will. Maybe there will be a "Change".

Sent From My Omega Red Galaxy S2

[Julio]

Ryan was great... Ready to see Some garbage removed from the White House.

[Julio]

You did exactly what most democrats do and did exactly what got us in this mess to begin with. Ignore the issues and vote for the black guy.


Yup.. And people who never voted before, Voted in 08 just to see Obama win.. Pretty sad.. I wonder where they at now.. Maybe still waiting for change ?

[dc5-rsx]

Yup.. And people who never voted before, Voted in 08 just to see Obama win.. Pretty sad.. I wonder where they at now.. Maybe still waiting for change ?

Let's hope they don't have to wait another 4 more years for "Change".

Sent From My Omega Red Galaxy S2

[JDMEK18]

Great! Here we go with the Black v/s White "BS" again...

[David88vert]

Neither political party is looking out for the interests of the American people. Nothing will change as long as you keep electing the puppets from the same two political parties and they keep catering to special interest groups.

[Elbow]

I find it funny you "republicans" think that Romney and his team will provide you with better results than Obama. Do you truly believe any elected president can walk into office and truly make a change in his term that you will see? Probably not.

Plus Obama probably wouldn't have been such a crappy president if the republicans didn't do everything in their power to prevent any of his ideas from taking place. So really both are to blame.

At least Obama has done some good, some good that has effected me in good ways, so I may just vote for him again.

Paul Ryan is an idiot, every speech I've heard from the convention has been total crap. 100% BS campaigning.

[ahabion]

I find it funny you "republicans" think that Romney and his team will provide you with better results than Obama. Do you truly believe any elected president can walk into office and truly make a change in his term that you will see? Probably not.

Sure you can. Obama did it. He passed the Stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, Obamacare, further divided America between rich and poor, united the Republican party, catalyst for the Tea Party, saw the rise of the Occupy movement and supported it, not pass a budget, played the race card, played the class warfare up, continued to blame the previous administration for all their woes, and on and on the list goes. (btw, Bush couldn't make a change either in his first term either... *sarcasms abound)



Plus Obama probably wouldn't have been such a crappy president if the republicans didn't do everything in their power to prevent any of his ideas from taking place. So really both are to blame.

Really? Substitute "Obama" with "Bush" and can you really believe that statement you just made? I'm just talking first term too. People who really believe such things are really naive. Yes both parties are to blame for the way government is run and handled today but the approach is to fix it, not exacerbate(sp?) it more. Obama had the House and Senate in his pocket for the first 2 years and he was able to pass all that he wanted. Now that he doesn't have the House anymore, he's crying foul? Bush had a mixed Congress his first 2 years, Repub House/Senate next 2, then mixed for the remaining 4. Wiki U.S. Congress.



At least Obama has done some good, some good that has effected me in good ways, so I may just vote for him again.

Paul Ryan is an idiot, every speech I've heard from the convention has been total crap. 100% BS campaigning.

He is running for VP, so yes he is campaigning but if you really consider yourself to be a 'free thinking citizen' then vote your values. If you think government is the answer then vote Obama. If you think you are the answer, vote Romney. The Obama camp is going to have a hard time competing with Romney/Ryan when it comes to the past 4 years. There isn't much there you can hide since hindsight is 20/20.

[ahabion]

I watched 5 minutes of that Republican National Convention and lost 2837 brain cells and 4 IQ points. What a god damn sideshow this thing is

You must watch MSNBC... talk about losing brain cells.

[Vteckidd]

I think conventions are boring. I respect the hell out of condi,but didn't watch her speech.

Paul Ryan gave arguably one of the most memorable speeches for a VP. He's smart and just as good a speaker as Obama, maybe better.

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You did exactly what most democrats do and did exactly what got us in this mess to begin with. Ignore the issues and vote for the black guy.Ignore the issues? Everyone at the RNC took care of that. The sooner ya'll take those "sheets" out of the closet, the sooner you can begin to live a happier life


Ryan was great... Ready to see Some garbage removed from the White House.Another uninformed, thinly veiled racist comment. If you believe Romney will bring any significant change to the white house, I've got some investment property in St. Tropez. Think you could manage a paragraph on what "garbage" means, backed up with facts and not meaningless propaganda?


Neither political party is looking out for the interests of the American people. Nothing will change as long as you keep electing the puppets from the same two political parties and they keep catering to special interest groups.


I find it funny you "republicans" think that Romney and his team will provide you with better results than Obama. Do you truly believe any elected president can walk into office and truly make a change in his term that you will see? Probably not.

Plus Obama probably wouldn't have been such a crappy president if the republicans didn't do everything in their power to prevent any of his ideas from taking place. So really both are to blame.

At least Obama has done some good, some good that has effected me in good ways, so I may just vote for him again.

Paul Ryan is an idiot, every speech I've heard from the convention has been total crap. 100% BS campaigning.Enough said.

[hondaxpurt]

Paul Ryan is an idiot, every speech I've heard from the convention has been total crap. 100% BS campaigning.

And Joe Biden is so much better? He doesn't even know what century we are in. What a leader.

[David88vert]

Ignore the issues? Everyone at the RNC took care of that. The sooner ya'll take those "sheets" out of the closet, the sooner you can begin to live a happier life
Another uninformed, thinly veiled racist comment. If you believe Romney will bring any significant change to the white house, I've got some investment property in St. Tropez. Think you could manage a paragraph on what "garbage" means, backed up with facts and not meaningless propaganda?
Enough said.

Quit trying to use the race card. You want to label Repubs as KKK? Go learn your history. More Repubs voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act than Democrats.

"Garbage" has no reference to race. And, in case you forgot, Obama is half-white. You need to stop thinking of him as only a black man. He is mixed, and his skin color does not control his decisions - his political party affiliation does that.

[Matt300ZXT]

I didn't watch Condi's but I thought Paul Ryan's speech was intense. He did a great job and hit on a lot of good points. I was very impressed by not only the things he said, but his actual delivery was good too. I watched McCain's speech as well and while it had a lot of good things in it, he didn't have the fire and intensity that Paul Ryan had.

[Elbow]

And Joe Biden is so much better? He doesn't even know what century we are in. What a leader.

Oh, I'm sorry, please point out where I said anything about Biden.


Quit trying to use the race card. You want to label Repubs as KKK? Go learn your history. More Repubs voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act than Democrats.

"Garbage" has no reference to race. And, in case you forgot, Obama is half-white. You need to stop thinking of him as only a black man. He is mixed, and his skin color does not control his decisions - his political party affiliation does that.

This.

[hondaxpurt]

Oh, I'm sorry, please point out where I said anything about Biden.


Please point out where I said you did, smart ass. I was simply stating both VP candidates are idiots. It's not just Ryan.

[Sinfix_15]

Yup.. And people who never voted before, Voted in 08 just to see Obama win.. Pretty sad.. I wonder where they at now.. Maybe still waiting for change ?

people dont want to admit it, but they know its true.

[.blank cd]

Quit trying to use the race card. You want to label Repubs as KKK? Go learn your history. More Repubs voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act than Democrats.

"Garbage" has no reference to race. And, in case you forgot, Obama is half-white. You need to stop thinking of him as only a black man. He is mixed, and his skin color does not control his decisions - his political party affiliation does that.

Sinfix brought up the race card, I was just responding to him, but I can give you another history lesson if you'd like to get schooled once again.

[C230K]

Obama still has my vote:)

[ahabion]

Sinfix brought up the race card, I was just responding to him, but I can give you another history lesson if you'd like to get schooled once again.
I'm curious to know what history lesson you have.
Post away.

[Sinfix_15]

Sinfix brought up the race card, I was just responding to him, but I can give you another history lesson if you'd like to get schooled once again.

Point is...... no matter what Ryan or Romney says.... Obama has your vote. Ryan could have gave the greatest speech in the history of humanity..... and you're still voting for Obama.

I give you credit for being honest though......... you admitted that you're not even listening to the other side, you've already got Obama penciled in.

[Elbow]

Point is...... no matter what Ryan or Romney says.... Obama has your vote. Ryan could have gave the greatest speech in the history of humanity..... and you're still voting for Obama.

I give you credit for being honest though......... you admitted that you're not even listening to the other side, you've already got Obama penciled in.

Speeches mean nothing.

[.blank cd]

Point is...... no matter what Ryan or Romney says.... Obama has your vote. Ryan could have gave the greatest speech in the history of humanity..... and you're still voting for Obama.

I give you credit for being honest though......... you admitted that you're not even listening to the other side, you've already got Obama penciled in.Not until the GOP gets off its anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, über-religious platform, I won't vote republican again.

...And I voted for Bush Jr.

[Sinfix_15]

Speeches mean nothing.

hard not to laugh at this coming from an Obama supporter.

[Sinfix_15]

Not until the GOP gets off its anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, über-religious platform, I won't vote republican again.

...And I voted for Bush Jr.

I agree with you on those points...... but you have to make a choice. Republican bible thumping is a thorn in the side of science..... but if Obama continues to be president, it's not gonna matter what we "allow" them to do, nobody will have the money to do anything. Our economy is more important than social views.

[Elbow]

hard not to laugh at this coming from an Obama supporter.

Wait, now I support Obama?

Just because I don't like the republican nominee and think Obama has done some good doesn't make me an "Obama supporter."

Obama gives great speeches, words can be BS though so...

[David88vert]

Sinfix brought up the race card, I was just responding to him, but I can give you another history lesson if you'd like to get schooled once again.

You can't expect to make a blanket racial accusation and not get called out on it.
Everyone needs to stop with the racial comments. It doesn't do anything productive, and you don't have to play the same game as him.

While I don't particularly like Obama's Democratic Party's policies, I thought that his speech yesterday was well-said, and he made his points well. He doesn't cave in to racist talk - why should you?

[David88vert]

Not until the GOP gets off its anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, über-religious platform, I won't vote republican again.

...And I voted for Bush Jr.

Say it ain't so!!!!

It'snot BUSH's fault! It's yours!

[ahabion]

Not until the GOP gets off its anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, über-religious platform, I won't vote republican again.

...And I voted for Bush Jr.

You don't have to be republican to be religious nor vice versa. I got a black coworker who is catholic and is a democrat and it don't bother me any. I think it's just your perspective which is antithetical of what you believe the GOP is.

If you really were scientific about it, then you'd see the evidence of Obama's body of work is far removed from what the hypothesis ever was. You're beyond science at this point and just dead-set on your faith-based belief of Obama. If you really call yourself an intellectual, then let the math prove itself out. To help: Martin Feldstein: Romney's Tax Plan Can Raise Revenue - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444327204577617421727000592.html)

[BanginJimmy]

Wait, now I support Obama?

According to your own post, yes.




At least Obama has done some good, some good that has effected me in good ways, so I may just vote for him again..

[BanginJimmy]

Plus Obama probably wouldn't have been such a crappy president if the republicans didn't do everything in their power to prevent any of his ideas from taking place.


By any chance you got any example of things the GOP stopped and didnt offer up their own version of?

I know for a fact that the GOP has offered up more than 30 different jobs bills that the Senate Dems have refused to even allow committee votes on. Maybe its them that are the problem, not the GOP in the House.



BTW, sources have said that Christie was asked to tone down his speech so as to not drown out Ann Romney. Tim Paulenty did have an outstanding speech though. This speech was obviously not written at his direction though because he is a bit stiff. I almost think it is an edited version of Christie's.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIi8YRo3Lc

[Elbow]

According to your own post, yes.

That doesn't say I support him, that says that I have seen some good from him, I don't love Obama or believe Obama is a great president, but I'm just saying he isn't that bad in my book.

[Vteckidd]

Im not voting on social issues because no party represents my views. I am voting on economic policies alone mainly because i believe if everyone is working and has good jobs, the rest of the stuff will be easier to handle.

IMO, Romney (more specifically Ryan) will handle the economy far better than Obama and his team of people have done. Heres why:

Romney/Ryan subscribe to Conservative economic principles which i fundamentally believe in over liberal policies. I believe in private sector hiring, lower spending, less govt, but not without some meaningful regulation. I believe it is better to hire a person than give him UE benefits. I believe the RICH create wealth by creating jobs.

Obamas plan is to continue giving out UE benefits , and to raise taxes on the "wealthy" (which is a sibjective term) to hire more teachers, policemen, and construction workers via govt stimulus money. I dont want a nation of firefighters and teachers, or people on UE. I just dont believe in his strategy. He doesnt want to do anything to help small business or the middle class out, and his record proves it.

The middle class is not ANY BETTER OFF than it was when he took office, in many cases its worse. 5 Trillion in NEW DEBT all owed him has not done anything for the economy, and hes just as much in the pocket of the big banks as any GOP person was.

4 years ive seen little to no action, and hes not serious about getting anything done. he had 2 years of complete control, and didnt do anything to get any sort of meaningful agenda done. he doesnt know how to work across the aisle because its not his style.

If you could show me a Bill Clinton, who did some liberal things but also understood how to get the economy going, Id be much less critical of the current Dem leadership.

Ryan is not the boogie man. Listen to what he says ,read his policies, hes very smart. Hes got IDEAS, ideas arent bad. Ideas have to be thrown out, tinkered with, and negotiated. At least he has ideas, where other people have NOTHING but blame.

I do not believe in the religious, anti gay marriage , anti legalizing weed , or anti pro choice section of the GOP party, but its something im willing to overlook because the economy is #1 to me.

has nothing to do with race, and anyone can vote for who they think will do the best job. If someone is voting for obama, that is their right. I suggest we leave the "you onlt did it because hes black" stuff out of it because while that may be true for some voters, its probably just as true that peopel DIDNT vote for Obama because he is black.

Its an ignorant argument, stick to the issues.

IMO

[BanginJimmy]

That doesn't say I support him, that says that I have seen some good from him, I don't love Obama or believe Obama is a great president, but I'm just saying he isn't that bad in my book.

And that you may vote for him again, meaning you already did once.

[Vteckidd]

and if Romney/Ryan get in, they have 4 years to do the same thing, or they should be voted out too. We should hold them to the same standard Obama is being held to.

[BanginJimmy]

We should hold them to the same standard Obama is being held to.


I hope we dont have to keep our standards this low through another administration.

[Elbow]

And that you may vote for him again, meaning you already did once.

I did, but only because I didn't want McCain. lol

[BanginJimmy]

I did, but only because I didn't want McCain. lol

It would be nice if we didnt get stuck trying to decide who would be worse wouldnt it?

[ahabion]

I did, but only because I didn't want McCain. lol

Taken seriously, I get it... it's like the Bush vs. Kerry... at that point it was the lesser of two evils but we all know that Bush was the right man for the job at that given time.

[David88vert]

Romney's speech last night was well written. I spotted some clear mistakes though. Promising to roll back Obamacare is not something that the executive branch can do. He's running for President, not Congress.

Did anyone catch the the guy with the "Hispanics 4 Mitt" sign? The guy holding it was clearly Caucasian, not Hispanic, and appeared to have a Romney staff layard and ID on. I actually didn't see any non-Caucasian people in the crowd in any of the shots.

[.blank cd]

Did anyone catch the the guy with the "Hispanics 4 Mitt" sign? The guy holding it was clearly Caucasian, not Hispanic, You must have not met any Hispanics outside of dark-skinned Mexicans.

[David88vert]

You must have not met any Hispanics outside of dark-skinned Mexicans.

You are so wrong (as usual). I know plenty of Hispanics, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc. Here in Atlanta, there are more Mexicans, but not so much down in Miami.
The guy that I saw was not about to be recognized by any Hispanics as Hispanic by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it is possible that he is mix, but not evident on screen, as his complexion favored European descent.

[ahabion]

Romney's speech last night was well written. I spotted some clear mistakes though. Promising to roll back Obamacare is not something that the executive branch can do. He's running for President, not Congress.

Did anyone catch the the guy with the "Hispanics 4 Mitt" sign? The guy holding it was clearly Caucasian, not Hispanic, and appeared to have a Romney staff layard and ID on. I actually didn't see any non-Caucasian people in the crowd in any of the shots.

I saw a bit of different ethnicities in the sea of white folks there. Yes, they were peppered in there but they were there. Saw blacks, asians, east indians, and hispanics. I think the GOP will soon be the party of diversity in the near future as their values align more with most minority americans and immigrants.

[ahabion]

You are so wrong (as usual). I know plenty of Hispanics, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc. Here in Atlanta, there are more Mexicans, but not so much down in Miami.
The guy that I saw was not about to be recognized by any Hispanics as Hispanic by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it is possible that he is mix, but not evident on screen, as his complexion favored European descent.

I do know who you're talking about: Agreed. He was certainly a large pompous older (bald, if i recall) white dude.

[BanginJimmy]

Sure, it is possible that he is mix.

Probably what it was. My wife is half cuban and you would never know it to look at her. She definitely favors her mother who is irish and french.

[fatty]

I find it funny you "republicans" think that Romney and his team will provide you with better results than Obama. Do you truly believe any elected president can walk into office and truly make a change in his term that you will see? Probably not.

Plus Obama probably wouldn't have been such a crappy president if the republicans didn't do everything in their power to prevent any of his ideas from taking place. So really both are to blame.

At least Obama has done some good, some good that has effected me in good ways, so I may just vote for him again.

Paul Ryan is an idiot, every speech I've heard from the convention has been total crap. 100% BS campaigning.
actually yea, an elected president can make a significant enough change to be noticable during his term. look at reagan. I just think obma is the biggest lier and unethical person to have served in office in recent history. He keeps claiming hes fighting for the middle class yet is raising taxes on the middle class IE: obamacare.

[Sinfix_15]

https://p.twimg.com/A16DzLeCAAATsVI.jpg:large

[Sinfix_15]

Well, looks like Bill Clinton might win the election for this bum we have in office.

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Well, looks like Bill Clinton might win the election for this bum we have in office.

Funny how facts work, isn't it? Lol

[Sinfix_15]

Funny how facts work, isn't it? Lol

It's not facts, it's charisma. Bill Clinton is the type of guy who could sell beach houses in Alaska. What he's selling is horse shit, but he's very good at it. Democrats blame rainy days on the guy before them and take credit for the sun coming up the next day.

[.blank cd]

It's not facts, it's charisma. Bill Clinton is the type of guy who could sell beach houses in Alaska. What he's selling is horse shit, but he's very good at it. Democrats blame rainy days on the guy before them and take credit for the sun coming up the next day.

I know it sounds like pure charisma when your speech isn't jam packed with blatant falsehoods.

[David88vert]

Clinton's speech was excellent. Yes, there are incorrect statements in all of the political statements from both sides, but the fact is that people feel connected to Clinton when he speaks, and Romney and Obama just don't have the same connection to the public.

At the beginning of Clinton's speech, when he kept saying that he was here to nominate a man that we need, I was waiting for him to say - "You need me. I nominate myself."

[.blank cd]

"The republicans said 'we're not gonna let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers'. Now I finally get to say it...that one is true"

Bill fucking Clinton, ladies and gentlemen.

[David88vert]

"The republicans said 'we're not gonna let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers'. Now I finally get to say it...that one is true"

Bill fucking Clinton, ladies and gentlemen.

That was a funny moment.
I believe it was in reference to the comments last week that the Repubs made about the leadership of FactCheck.org having a liberal bias.
In truth, they do have a liberal bias, but not majorly so. It's probably because they are run by Annenberg Foundation's Annenberg Public Policy Center, which i s lead by a Limbaugh baser, known liberal K H Jamieson, who wrote, “Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh and the Conservative Media Establishment”, and used to be on Bill Moyer's show.

Facts are truth depending on one's point of view, and are not the same to everyone. So it's possible that some conservatives, especially the extreme far right, would find them to be too liberal. Even so, to me, they don't seem overly liberal. I suspect that some of the extreme far left might find them to be too conservative.

[.blank cd]

Facts are truth depending on one's point of view, and are not the same to everyone. So it's possible that some conservatives, especially the extreme far right, would find them to be too liberal. Even so, to me, they don't seem overly liberal. I suspect that some of the extreme far left might find them to be too conservative.So facts can be biased now? Damn. People are altering reality faster than I can keep up.

Can you give me a simple example of a "liberal" fact and a "conservative" fact please?

[Vteckidd]

Can you give me a simple example of a "liberal" fact and a "conservative" fact please?

Sure.

Bill Clinton saying he left a SURPLUS. Thats a liberal FACT, but its not true.

Obama saying he "Saves 716 billion from medicare", liberal fact, not true at all and no way to even prove it would happen.

Democrats "We created 4.5 million jobs". Thats mostly true, but they are ignoring the X Million of jobs that were lost.

Want to hear some GOP ones? sure, lets do that too

Ryan talking about the GM plant Obama "abandoned". Even though it really happened under George W Bush watch. Not really Obamas fault.

GOP claiming they are for Cutting spending, but dont want to do anything to cut Defense spending.



Its pretty obvious that the FACTCHECK websites are all, well, full of shit. Very few are REALLY accurate, my point is if you REALLY know the issues, you dont need a site to tell you what is true and what is not.

[Vteckidd]

The fact is people mostly believe that their party is the only one who tells the truth. Too many people are scared to call out their own party for being wrong.

We can sit here and bullshit about what is right and wrong about a speech , or we can deal with the real facts.

UE -Higher than 4 years ago
Gasoline- Higher than 4 years ago
Deficit- Higher than 4 years ago
Taxes- Payroll tax is 50% less (like 3.5% lower? very little done). taxes on middle class arent currently higher , but will be higher once Obamacare is implemented.
DOW- Higher than what it was 4 years ago, BUT, i thought Obama promised to grow middle class and change the wall street infrastructure. he hasnt.
Income- Median income is lower than when he took office
Foreign Policy- OBL dead, Iran closer to having a nuke, Iraq war over, Afghanistan, almost over.
Facts are facts.

[.blank cd]

Sure.

Bill Clinton saying he left a SURPLUS. Thats a liberal FACT, but its not true.Let's stop right here because the rest of your examples are framed the same way

If you say it's not TRUE, does it still qualify as a FACT?

You're saying it's a liberal statement that's not true. I can go with this...

But either he actually did leave a budget surplus, and his statement would be a fact, OR he didn't leave a budget surplus and his statement would be untrue, thus, NOT a fact.

[nelson9995]

The fact is people mostly believe that their party is the only one who tells the truth. Too many people are scared to call out their own party for being wrong.

We can sit here and bullshit about what is right and wrong about a speech , or we can deal with the real facts.

UE -Higher than 4 years ago
Gasoline- Higher than 4 years ago
Deficit- Higher than 4 years ago
Taxes- Payroll tax is 50% less (like 3.5% lower? very little done). taxes on middle class arent currently higher , but will be higher once Obamacare is implemented.
DOW- Higher than what it was 4 years ago, BUT, i thought Obama promised to grow middle class and change the wall street infrastructure. he hasnt.
Income- Median income is lower than when he took office
Foreign Policy- OBL dead, Iran closer to having a nuke, Iraq war over, Afghanistan, almost over.
Facts are facts.

Extremely biased. Where are all the good facts?

[Vteckidd]

Let's stop right here because the rest of your examples are framed the same way

If you say it's not TRUE, does it still qualify as a FACT?

You're saying it's a liberal statement that's not true. I can go with this...

But either he actually did leave a budget surplus, and his statement would be a fact, OR he didn't leave a budget surplus and his statement would be untrue, thus, NOT a fact.

it depends on how you define the argument.

If i tell you that i created 4.5 million jobs , but i didnt count the 8 million that were lost =3.5 million jobs lost

which is true? technically its 50% true. If yo uare a liberal its true, if you are a conservative its false.

There are hundreds of issues the GOP does the exact same thing over and over again. They quote "WE CUT THE DEFICIT!" , when in reality, they cut the rate of increase in spending.

IE , we spend at a rate of 10% per year INCREASE. If i spend $100 a year, and project next year ill spend $110, that is a 10% increase. If, in the third year, i say "ehh, ill spend 9% increase, not the 10%" did you really cut anything? No you just decided to spend less than your rate of increase.

Its all how you present the numbers and facts.

[Vteckidd]

Extremely biased. Where are all the good facts?

WTF do you not understand simple numbers?

Obama takes office 7.8%, NOW 8.3%
Gas when he took office $2.78, $3.85 NOW
Deficit 10 Trillions 2008, 16 trillion NOW
Median income when he took office was $52XXX, its now $49,XXX


This is all scored by the god damn CBO, the fact you would even sit here and propagate that those numbers are biased is laughable. GO TO THE FUCKING GAS PUMP AND TELL ME IF YOU PAY MORE THAN YOU DID 4 YEARS AGO, THE REST IS SELF EXPLANATORY.

[.blank cd]

it depends on how you define the argument.Ok. Let's further expand on this. If you, Vteckidd, told me you created 4.5mil jobs, and you actually did, then that would be a fact. It doesn't matter whether you're a liberal or conservative. If I told you out of a box of 20 crackers, I ate 10, and everyone watched me eat them, and there are 10 crackers left, it would be a fact that I ate 10.


If i tell you that i created 4.5 million jobs , but i didnt count the 8 million that were lost =3.5 million jobs lost

which is true? technically its 50% true. If you are a liberal its true, if you are a conservative its false.It's all true if you were directly responsible for it. 8m jobs lost, 4.5m created, 3.5m still left. The way in which we adhere to facts doesn't make you liberal or conservative, it's in how you approach the solution.

[Sinfix_15]

Ok. Let's further expand on this. If you, Vteckidd, told me you created 4.5mil jobs, and you actually did, then that would be a fact. It doesn't matter whether you're a liberal or conservative. If I told you out of a box of 20 crackers, I ate 10, and everyone watched me eat them, and there are 10 crackers left, it would be a fact that I ate 10.

It's all true if you were directly responsible for it. 8m jobs lost, 4.5m created, 3.5m still left. The way in which we adhere to facts doesn't make you liberal or conservative, it's in how you approach the solution.

If i go to vegas with $10,000 to play blackjack all night and spend most of the night losing, but with my final chip i win $500 and come home with $500, then technically "i won $500" is a fact. That's the way democrats present the "facts".

[.blank cd]

If i go to vegas with $10,000 to play blackjack all night and spend most of the night losing, but with my final chip i win $500 and come home with $500, then technically "i won $500" is a fact. That's the way democrats present the "facts".Sweeping generalization, you could change democrats to 'someone with an agenda'

[Sinfix_15]

Sweeping generalization, you could change democrats to 'someone with an agenda'

All politicians twist "facts", but in this case we're talking about democrats. Nobody is ever going to say "look, i suck, get me out of here" , they're always going to defend their record no matter how poor it is. Obama is the best example we'll have of that in our lifetime.

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwejQBIyjow&feature=player_embedded

[.blank cd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwejQBIyjow&feature=player_embeddedYou should have seen the exposé they did on the daily show last week at the RNC about the same thing....

[Echonova]

I'm sure I would have laughed at that, I'll go look it up. Hell, I like Bill Maher. Don't agree with virtually anything he says, but that doesn't mean he's not funny as shit. I don't take any of the "gotcha" interviews seriously anyway, I just think they are funny. But I am pessimistic combined with a dry sense of humor.



I did see ABC's interview the Daily's Show John Oliver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RHvqNW88jw

[David88vert]

Here's how I score the speeches after watching them all.

Ryan's was better than Biden's, but Biden wasn't weak. If you consider how the Ryan plan isn't really worth the paper it's printed on, and then Biden was pretty solid, and at least even with Ryan, if not better.
Obama's speech was better than Romney's. Period. I'm not saying that Romney's was bad, but Obama was better at getting his message across. Better speech writing, but the Dems had a week to prepare.

Clinton was better than all 4 of them put together.

[ahabion]

Amusing.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ar3s6KWCMAA5NZg.png:large

[Sinfix_15]

If Obama wins again that will prove that it's not what you say, its how you say it.

MORGAN FREEMAN 2016!!!!!

[David88vert]

MORGAN FREEMAN 2016!!!!!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyn9pvASxI1qgw8p1o1_500.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

edit

[Vteckidd]

I dont know i thought Bidens speech was terrible. He flubbed, he mispoke, it just sounded like he was yelling.

Obama, possibly one of the greatest orator we have ever seen. He sounds more like a preacher to me. A preacher talking to his congregation.

Paul Ryan, i will disagree, i thought gave one of the best speeches. it was a "im not backing down , bring it on" type speech.

Clinton , first 15-20 minutes, awesome, last 30 minutes, terrible.

Romney, as usual, to me played it safe.

Id rank them
Obama
Ryan
Romney
Clinton
Biden

Im 100% totally biased, as the stuff Obama and Biden said i just dont agree with. If your platform is "we saved GM and killed OBL" it just shows me how out of touch you are with the economic problems we are facing.

[Vteckidd]

the other thing is they are reporting that Obama had an advance copy of todays Jobs report, before he went on. He had it for a few hours, so that may have been why he was more ............."give me time" instead of on the attack

[bu villain]

WTF do you not understand simple numbers?

Obama takes office 7.8%, NOW 8.3%
Gas when he took office $2.78, $3.85 NOW
Deficit 10 Trillions 2008, 16 trillion NOW
Median income when he took office was $52XXX, its now $49,XXX


This is all scored by the god damn CBO, the fact you would even sit here and propagate that those numbers are biased is laughable. GO TO THE FUCKING GAS PUMP AND TELL ME IF YOU PAY MORE THAN YOU DID 4 YEARS AGO, THE REST IS SELF EXPLANATORY.

I think you missed his point. His point was not that your numbers are wrong, it was that you only listed facts that seem to reflect negatively on Obama. You could have listed facts like "There is no longer a huge housing bubble" or "Corporations have unprecendented levels of cash". Further, the facts you listed don't prove Obama did a bad job unless you claim that those numbers are solely the effect of Obama's performance and there were no other affecting factors. Do you believe the president really has much to do with gas prices? I filled up for under 3 bucks a gallon a month ago. Does that mean Obama did something in the past month to raise gas prices by a third?

[Sinfix_15]

I think you missed his point. His point was not that your numbers are wrong, it was that you only listed facts that seem to reflect negatively on Obama. You could have listed facts like "There is no longer a huge housing bubble" or "Corporations have unprecendented levels of cash". Further, the facts you listed don't prove Obama did a bad job unless you claim that those numbers are solely the effect of Obama's performance and there were no other affecting factors. Do you believe the president really has much to do with gas prices? I filled up for under 3 bucks a gallon a month ago. Does that mean Obama did something in the past month to raise gas prices by a third?

but Bush had EVERYTHING to do with his term. You cant play both sides of the fence. Dems blame any and everyone but themselves.

[Vteckidd]

I think you missed his point. His point was not that your numbers are wrong, it was that you only listed facts that seem to reflect negatively on Obama. You could have listed facts like "There is no longer a huge housing bubble" or "Corporations have unprecendented levels of cash". Further, the facts you listed don't prove Obama did a bad job unless you claim that those numbers are solely the effect of Obama's performance and there were no other affecting factors. Do you believe the president really has much to do with gas prices? I filled up for under 3 bucks a gallon a month ago. Does that mean Obama did something in the past month to raise gas prices by a third?

Im sorry i thought we were talking about facts.

Instead of going off on tangents, take responsibility.

The facts are that every american is directly effected in a negative manner (middle class and under). INCOME IS DOWN, UE IS UP, DEBT IS HIGHER, GAS PRICES ARE HIGHER.

I dont give a shit if you think the president can control something or not, because when gas prices SPIKED after Katrina, it was "OH GEORGE BUSH IS FUCKING US".

The difference between me and everyone else is i apply the SAME STANDARD to EVERYONE regardless of political party.

The facts reflect negatively on Obama because HE HASNT DONE ANYTHING TO MAKE THEM POSITIVE.

If youre going to give him a pass because he Killed OBL, great, im not going to. Also, my point is hes doing NOTHING about gas prices or energy in general. We are dependent on foreign oil, period. As long as we stay dependent on that oil, we are at the mercy of the speculators and ME conflicts. If he (and others) wanted to fix this, they could do it easily.

When you veto things like Keystone, and deny permits on federal lands, it just shows me you dont care about the middle class paying $4 a gallong and being beholden to the ME

[Vteckidd]

you guys want to know the REAL dirty secret:

George W. Bush INHERITED the dotcom Bubble from Clinton, but we still call it Bushs recession. Then 9 months into his presidency, 9/11 happened, worst terrorist attack on our soil, most estimate it to cost between 1-2 trillion dollars.

SO, George bush inherited an extremely troubling economy and domestic disaster in the first 9 MONTHS OF HIS PRESIDENCY. SO when i hear OBama talk about how bad he had it coming in, its like, uh, you knew what you were getting into, and you accepted it.

Bush guided us through 7 3/4 YEARS of HISTORIC low Unemployment and job creation. Go look at the DOW, median incomes, housing, everything, we exploded. It only collapsed toward then end of 2007/into 2008.

Did bush have blame, ABSOLUTELY, he kept interest rates artificially low after 9/11 to stave off another recession, he and the GOP didnt sound the alarm loud enough about what was going on in the financial sector. but it was the democrats who FORCED the banks to loan money to UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE who they KNEW couldnt pay the loans back.

So sorry, i dont give a shit about "we are out of the housing bubble" because tell that to anyone who is under water on their mortgage right now.

So you can make all the excuses in the world about why the UE sucks, or economy is stagnate, or why record number of people are in poverty, the facts are this is Obamas presidency , he is the leader of the free world, he was expected to fix this. Hes not doing it, and he has no intention to do so.

[BanginJimmy]

So sorry, i dont give a shit about "we are out of the housing bubble" because tell that to anyone who is under water on their mortgage right now.


The bubble has burst and that isnt an issue right now. We are starting to see the rubber band effect though. The market fell so far, so fast that it HAS to rebound because there is just too much inventory at amazingly low prices. If the market doesnt start to rebound with some vigor we will have to worry about investors buying huge amounts of property then leveraging up prices. This can and will likely cause a second crash in the market.

[nelson9995]

WTF do you not understand simple numbers?

Obama takes office 7.8%, NOW 8.3%
Gas when he took office $2.78, $3.85 NOW
Deficit 10 Trillions 2008, 16 trillion NOW
Median income when he took office was $52XXX, its now $49,XXX


This is all scored by the god damn CBO, the fact you would even sit here and propagate that those numbers are biased is laughable. GO TO THE FUCKING GAS PUMP AND TELL ME IF YOU PAY MORE THAN YOU DID 4 YEARS AGO, THE REST IS SELF EXPLANATORY.

what was gas when reagan was in office? what was gas when clinton? bush? see WTF I mean?
So him saving GM was a bad decision? even though GM is now the #1 auto company in the world this year.

There are other examples. If you received a car that the previous owner had for 8 years and it's fucked up... do you fix it by looking at it? NO! You have to invest money to make it ride smooth. You can't smoothen something in 4 years that someone fucked up in 8. Makes sense!

[nelson9995]

I think you missed his point. His point was not that your numbers are wrong, it was that you only listed facts that seem to reflect negatively on Obama. You could have listed facts like "There is no longer a huge housing bubble" or "Corporations have unprecendented levels of cash". Further, the facts you listed don't prove Obama did a bad job unless you claim that those numbers are solely the effect of Obama's performance and there were no other affecting factors. Do you believe the president really has much to do with gas prices? I filled up for under 3 bucks a gallon a month ago. Does that mean Obama did something in the past month to raise gas prices by a third?

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I meant.

[Echonova]

Gas was actually $1.78 (I think the exact nationwide average was $1.83) when he took office, not $2.78 as Mike posted.


Carry on.

[Sinfix_15]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/16/article-0-130ADBC0000005DC-143_306x462.jpg

[Vteckidd]

what was gas when reagan was in office? what was gas when clinton? bush? see WTF I mean?
So him saving GM was a bad decision? even though GM is now the #1 auto company in the world this year.

you know, im getting to the point that if youre too lazy to do your own research and figure it out on your own, you are not worth me arguing with because all i do is waste my valuable time.

Reagans numbers speak for themselves. Carter left him an economy much like we have now, you just probably werent even born yet (neither was I). You dont know terms like Gas rationing, windfall profits tax, etc. Go look it up.

Gas traditionally stayed low under reagan and Bush Sr, even Clinton. Gas spiked under W when katrina hit and shut down the gulf for 2 weeks. AND in 2007 when the world economic downtown started happeneing and we were still consuming. eventually it caught up and gas went down to $1.78


Yes saving GM was wrong.

How can you advocate for saving a private company that made bad business decisions? Why should the govt step in and save a business that screwed itself? It shouldnt. you guys act like people that lost jobs would NEVER get a job again. simply not true. Someone would have come in, bought GM up, either pieced them out or restructured them to make them profitable again.

you know what they are doing so well? Because of plants they built in CHina, not the USA. Hows that for outsourcing.


There are other examples. If you received a car that the previous owner had for 8 years and it's fucked up... do you fix it by looking at it? NO! You have to invest money to make it ride smooth. You can't smoothen something in 4 years that someone fucked up in 8. Makes sense!
1) you used the word SMOOTHEN
2) bush didnt fuck up anything for 8 years. This just proves how small minded you are.

So you think the economic collapse is SOLELY BUSHS FAULT? LOLOLOL

To use your horrible analogy, the car should be somewhat fixed in 4 years, not worse than the condition you got it in, after spending an insane amount of money on it to begin with.

You need a history lesson. W passed TARP, that is what stabilized the economy, by the time Obama took office, we were in bad shape, but the majority of the bad stuff had eased. STIM 1 is what stabilized it even further.

[bu villain]

but Bush had EVERYTHING to do with his term. You cant play both sides of the fence. Dems blame any and everyone but themselves.

Bush should be blamed for many things during his term as Obama can be blamed for many things in his term. Neither one of them should be blamed for EVERYTHING that happens during their term though. I don't care what "Dems" say.

[bu villain]

I dont give a shit if you think the president can control something or not, because when gas prices SPIKED after Katrina, it was "OH GEORGE BUSH IS FUCKING US". The difference between me and everyone else is i apply the SAME STANDARD to EVERYONE regardless of political party.

I never blamed Bush for gas prices either. Why is it that instead of responding to what I said, you respond to what someone else said?


The facts reflect negatively on Obama because HE HASNT DONE ANYTHING TO MAKE THEM POSITIVE.

There isn't always a simple correlation between those facts and a president's policies especially when it comes to super complex systems like an economy. If Romeny wins in November, I won't say it's all his fault if unemployment is still high in 4 years.


If youre going to give him a pass because he Killed OBL, great, im not going to.

Uhm, I'm not. I just gave an example of a fact that looks positive. Don't read too much into it.


we are at the mercy of the speculators and ME conflicts.

We agree 100% on this.


If he (and others) wanted to fix this, they could do it easily.

Not so much on this.

[Sinfix_15]

Ok, so Bush handed Obama a bad economy is what you Dems say..........

Bush also handed Obama a AAA credit rating.....

What's your excuse for that? or just gonna blame it on Bush too even though it happened 3 years into Obama's presidency?

[bu villain]

Ok, so Bush handed Obama a bad economy is what you Dems say..........

Bush also handed Obama a AAA credit rating.....

What's your excuse for that? or just gonna blame it on Bush too even though it happened 3 years into Obama's presidency?

Well I'm not a dem but I'll respond anyways. Obama did inherit the worst economy in almost a century. I think there is widespread agreement on that between economists. I think the credit ratings are pretty meaningless as evidenced by the AAA rated CDOs that are selling for less than pennies on the dollar now but if you look at the report for why the US credit rating was dropped, it specifically states the prolonged argument about raising the debt ceiling was a major factor.

[Vteckidd]

Bush inherited terrible economy from Clinton but no one talks about the 7+ years of economic awesomeness we had during his presidency.

Obama gets shitty economy, makes no improvement and in most cases its WORSE, he gets a pass.

AMAZING

Bush had to deal with a split congress, Obama didnt have to for the first 2 years. Dont make excuses, hold everyone to the same standard.

[Sinfix_15]

Well I'm not a dem but I'll respond anyways. Obama did inherit the worst economy in almost a century. I think there is widespread agreement on that between economists. I think the credit ratings are pretty meaningless as evidenced by the AAA rated CDOs that are selling for less than pennies on the dollar now but if you look at the report for why the US credit rating was dropped, it specifically states the prolonged argument about raising the debt ceiling was a major factor.

The point is, every candidate takes credit for everything positive and blames everything negative on the guy before them. Since nobody will take responsibility for anything, we should judge them by the stats....

Obama's stats and numbers could be the worst in history. I dont care if he inherited it from Bush, who knew Bush was the president he was replacing when he stood in front of america and told us he was the right man for the job, if he cant fix this mess... and he obviously hasnt... then he stood up and told us a lie. On to the next one.

[bu villain]

Bush inherited terrible economy from Clinton but no one talks about the 7+ years of economic awesomeness we had during his presidency.

I'm not saying Bush fucked the economy because he didn't do all that much either way in my opinion. He was more focused on foreign policy and terrorism. The "7+ years of economic awesomeness" was an illusion based on phantom real estate equity and worthless derivatives. I'm not saying that was all his fault but I wouldn't consider it a feather in his cap either.


Obama gets shitty economy, makes no improvement and in most cases its WORSE, he gets a pass.

No pass given here as there are many things he could have done better but I also don't accept that the president can dictate how the market will behave.


Bush had to deal with a split congress, Obama didnt have to for the first 2 years. Dont make excuses, hold everyone to the same standard.

I am holding holding them to the same standard. No president, Republican or Democrat, has that much control over the economy period. The market isn't a ship that politicians are the captain of. They are mostly along for the ride like the rest of us. Therefor, I don't blame it all on Bush or Obama. I am not inconsistent about that.

[bu villain]

The point is, every candidate takes credit for everything positive and blames everything negative on the guy before them. Since nobody will take responsibility for anything, we should judge them by the stats....

Yes politicians will always try to take credit for success and push off blame for failure. No argument there. Judging by stats is fine as long as you include the context of the situation and not just blindly look at numbers regardless of what all the factors are.


Obama's stats and numbers could be the worst in history. I dont care if he inherited it from Bush, who knew Bush was the president he was replacing when he stood in front of america and told us he was the right man for the job, if he cant fix this mess... and he obviously hasnt... then he stood up and told us a lie. On to the next one.

I vote for whoever I think will do the best job. I will only move "on to the next one" if I think the next one will be better.

[.blank cd]

Heres how I kinda contextualize the situation.

Imagine you have an Olympic sized pool full of water. This is the economy. Bush, the pool security guard kinda turned a blind eye while someone blew a big hole in it, right before it was time for him to clock out. Obama gets on shift and sees the pool is draining water. The swimmers, that's us, are calling for him to stop the leak and fill the pool back up. He's gotta borrow tools to fix the leak and get some water to fill it up, but it seems some people's top priority is to not let him borrow the tools or get the water turned on. Meanwhile, all some of these swimmers care about is getting the pool filled up and continuously blame Obama for temporarily patching the leak but not filling it back up. The people that have the tools and the key to the water valve might be more willing to let Romney borrow them when he gets on shift. Some people are also frustrated because Obama asked the swimmers to run home and grab a bucket and help refill the pool faster.

[Vteckidd]

Heres how I kinda contextualize the situation.

Imagine you have an Olympic sized pool full of water. This is the economy. Bush, the pool security guard kinda turned a blind eye while someone blew a big hole in it, right before it was time for him to clock out. Obama gets on shift and sees the pool is draining water. The swimmers, that's us, are calling for him to stop the leak and fill the pool back up. He's gotta borrow tools to fix the leak and get some water to fill it up, but it seems some people's top priority is to not let him borrow the tools or get the water turned on. Meanwhile, all some of these swimmers care about is getting the pool filled up and continuously blame Obama for temporarily patching the leak but not filling it back up. The people that have the tools and the key to the water valve might be more willing to let Romney borrow them when he gets on shift. Some people are also frustrated because Obama asked the swimmers to run home and grab a bucket and help refill the pool faster.

horrible analogy, but i give you an A for effort. :P

Assuming Bush was solely responsible for the economy is just flat out ignoring the policies of the previous 2 administrations. If Obama gets to blame Bush, then Bush gets to blame Clinton. sorry, cant have it both ways. The community reinvestment free loans for unqualified people was Clintons big deal, not Bush, what happened under Bushs watch was letting the banks leverage themselves 40-50-60 times over so they could insure and profit from the impending losses but they stopped caring when that would happen.

Obama took office promising change to politics in washington, instead we got more gridlock, less action, more partisanship.

He also said we would be under 6% UE in 2 years, never above 8% after stimulus. every sector of the economy is worse, UNDER HIS POLICIES. It has NOTHING to do with Bush since 2008.

As far as "raising taxes" he had 2 years to do it an didnt, you should count that as A) Lazy B) incompetent.

As far as raising taxes , there is ZERO evidence to show it would solve anything , and in most cases it would hurt us MORE. Even the tax breaks he wants to take away amount to just over 60 billion if we assume revenues stay the same (they dont ever). so, youre telling me 60 billion dollars is what is keeping us from economic prosperity?

if so, why is the FED announcing today they will pump 45-80 BILLION A MONTH to prop up the economy with QE3?

Face it, you may subscribe to the liberal economic policies of taxing the rich , help the middle class etc, that is FINE, but you cannot sit there with a straight face and say that Obama has done anything he promised he would do (outside of healthcare)

[ahabion]

Heres how I kinda contextualize the situation.

Imagine you have an Olympic sized pool full of water. This is the economy. Bush, the pool security guard kinda turned a blind eye while someone blew a big hole in it, right before it was time for him to clock out. Obama gets on shift and sees the pool is draining water. The swimmers, that's us, are calling for him to stop the leak and fill the pool back up. He's gotta borrow tools to fix the leak and get some water to fill it up, but it seems some people's top priority is to not let him borrow the tools or get the water turned on. Meanwhile, all some of these swimmers care about is getting the pool filled up and continuously blame Obama for temporarily patching the leak but not filling it back up. The people that have the tools and the key to the water valve might be more willing to let Romney borrow them when he gets on shift. Some people are also frustrated because Obama asked the swimmers to run home and grab a bucket and help refill the pool faster.


horrible analogy, but i give you an A for effort. :P

I would agree with Vteckidd. The economy can't be likened to that of a pool or as many people say, a cake. The economy is more like the weather. The ebb and flow of it is unpredictable and sometimes turbulent, but overall, generally pleasant. It's not until this century that people thought that it is something that we can control. Along with that, it's limitless by nature. Money does not always equate to economy. For example, anyone caught in Hurricane Katrina down in New Orleans would have probably traded bags of gold for bottled water. That's economy. When people are engaged in trade is economy.

[Sinfix_15]

Heres how I kinda contextualize the situation.

Imagine you have an Olympic sized pool full of water. This is the economy. Bush, the pool security guard kinda turned a blind eye while someone blew a big hole in it, right before it was time for him to clock out. Obama gets on shift and sees the pool is draining water. The swimmers, that's us, are calling for him to stop the leak and fill the pool back up. He's gotta borrow tools to fix the leak and get some water to fill it up, but it seems some people's top priority is to not let him borrow the tools or get the water turned on. Meanwhile, all some of these swimmers care about is getting the pool filled up and continuously blame Obama for temporarily patching the leak but not filling it back up. The people that have the tools and the key to the water valve might be more willing to let Romney borrow them when he gets on shift. Some people are also frustrated because Obama asked the swimmers to run home and grab a bucket and help refill the pool faster.

I have a better use of your analogy.

More like, Bush was monitoring the pool and doing a fair job until some highschool kids thought it would be funny to take a dump in the pool. So Bush now has to empty the pool and refill it, even though he was pretty strapped on his options, people are still pretty unhappy the pool is closed down and everyone is mad at bush. Towards the end of his shift, bush tells Obama that the pool needs some chlorine in it soon....

Obama says, no problem.... let me go buy walmart since they sell chlorine and bail out the chlorine company, then i'll open an agency specifically for monitoring the chlorine levels in the pool water.......... but, my shift is almost over so i'm gonna put all that on hold until i can talk my supervisor into giving me some overtime.

[nelson9995]

I have a better use of your analogy.

More like, Bush was monitoring the pool and doing a fair job until some highschool kids thought it would be funny to take a dump in the pool. So Bush now has to empty the pool and refill it, even though he was pretty strapped on his options, people are still pretty unhappy the pool is closed down and everyone is mad at bush. Towards the end of his shift, bush tells Obama that the pool needs some chlorine in it soon....

Obama says, no problem.... let me go buy walmart since they sell chlorine and bail out the chlorine company, then i'll open an agency specifically for monitoring the chlorine levels in the pool water.......... but, my shift is almost over so i'm gonna put all that on hold until i can talk my supervisor into giving me some overtime.

I didn't know Bush left the economy at such a great stand point.

I like your story except, Bush instigated the kids to throw the shit in the pool, he drained it, and left it empty, the paint is now peeling and Obama has to clean, paint, refill, and put the chlorine in. lol

[Vteckidd]

I didn't know Bush left the economy at such a great stand point.

I like your story except, Bush instigated the kids to throw the shit in the pool, he drained it, and left it empty, the paint is now peeling and Obama has to clean, paint, refill, and put the chlorine in. lol

Oh really? Go do some research, both sides share 50% of the blame, period.

The DEMOCRATS wanted poor people who couldnt afford homes to get loans. They strong armed banks to lend to UNQUALIFIED people or they would "investigate" the banks and pull FHA (federal backed loans) from the banks. IE they were told either LEND THIS POOL OF MONEY OUT, OR YOULL GO UNDER.

BUSH didnt do anything to stop it, and he let Paulson (an ex G+S guy) takeover and let banks leverage themselves 40-50-60 times past their credit lines or cash on hand.

Democrats created the problem, Bush and the republicans (beholden to wall street) found creative ways to make it work and insure it, package it as a security to sell it off and profit.

Bush gave you (although you were probably in elementary school) the largest DOW ever, and a period of 4% UE that we had not seen since CLINTON. Obama knew what he was getting involved in, and HE PROMISED to fix it. He hasnt , if things were getting better, i would say give him time, but they arent, they are WORSE.

if they were getting better, the FED wouldnt be pumping in 40-80 billion a month, as previously stated.

[Sinfix_15]

Oh really? Go do some research, both sides share 50% of the blame, period.

The DEMOCRATS wanted poor people who couldnt afford homes to get loans. They strong armed banks to lend to UNQUALIFIED people or they would "investigate" the banks and pull FHA (federal backed loans) from the banks. IE they were told either LEND THIS POOL OF MONEY OUT, OR YOULL GO UNDER.

BUSH didnt do anything to stop it, and he let Paulson (an ex G+S guy) takeover and let banks leverage themselves 40-50-60 times past their credit lines or cash on hand.

Democrats created the problem, Bush and the republicans (beholden to wall street) found creative ways to make it work and insure it, package it as a security to sell it off and profit.

Bush gave you (although you were probably in elementary school) the largest DOW ever, and a period of 4% UE that we had not seen since CLINTON. Obama knew what he was getting involved in, and HE PROMISED to fix it. He hasnt , if things were getting better, i would say give him time, but they arent, they are WORSE.

if they were getting better, the FED wouldnt be pumping in 40-80 billion a month, as previously stated.

You're very in tune with the situation and have a great way of explaining things. Can you explain things in a manner that will convince the avg Obama fan who has unconditional love for him and will desperately attempt to rationalize and defend his every action?


And side note....... one thing i've always given Obama credit for was that he is a great speaker, but that speech he gave for the people who were killed today was absolutely terrible. It sounded like he was handed something to read 5 minutes before he got there.

[geoff]

the unshakable and unrelenting support and loyalty to Obama just blows my mind. politics is can be compared to a quarter. there are two sides to the quarter i.e. dem and rep yet they are the same single coin. One can not have success or failure without the other. Our government is failing us miserably, that is a FACT. It does not matter which party you give your undying allegiance to, this is a true statement. Obama has not fixed anything and has not even shown that his policies will put us on the path to recovery. I don't know that Romney is the man for the job. But I do believe that he has experience that Obama lacks in the financial sector. I believe Romney to be an aggressive business man and that he knows how to make something profitable. Lets be realistic here, America is just one really big business that has millions of employees. Right now America is not profitable. The current CEO is incompetent and has run the business further into the ground. He needs to be fired and replaced. Romney will do what is necessary to make America the business profitable again. Some people will be "cut" or "suffer" and there will be budget cuts and what not. They needs of the many far out weigh the needs of the few. This is reality, life is not fair to anyone. If you think that we can "fix" the economy and everyone is going to prosper and not get hurt then you live in a fantasy world. Romney will make the necessary changes to make America a "good and profitable business" again. And we all can agree that if America is made to be profitable again, then that is good for every American. The more money we the people can make, the more we pump back into merchandise, services, luxuries, ect....it benefits us all.

I myself am a small business owner. Right now I am experiencing a rapid growth and can hardly keep up. ( no thanks to the government by the way). I did this on my own. I provided a great service for an excellent price and did my own marketing and advertising. I got lucky and was blessed by my God to grow. Now, I say this to make this point. Obama as America's CEO had a failing business. He tried to spend his way out of the company tanking and tried to flood the problem with money. I as a business owner, know that this is not how to fix things when you are in trouble. A smart business owner would look at were he is spending too much money, he would evaluate what is necessary and what can be cut, he would then make those changes so that he is not sending out more money then he collects, then he would advise and implement a new plan that would cut costs and maximize his profits. How is it that I as a small individual owner knows this yet the entire government from the president down and all the "financial advisers" and "experts" cant figure this out?

[.blank cd]

When did America become a big business? Serious question? All this time I thought it was a country.

[ahabion]

When did America become a big business? Serious question? All this time I thought it was a country.

When the American government thought that they were in control over the people who put them in Washington when in fact, we just put them in charge... not in control.

[bu villain]

Although there are certainly some similarities, I think the comparison of government to a big business is not a particularly useful one. For starters, one of government's primary roles should be to address problems that the free market can't/won't solve due to their unprofitable nature. Also, the power to set the rules and print money are fundamentally different than companies. There are certainly some useful tools than cross over such as cost-benefit analysis but in the end, the government is quite different from a typical business.