my new to me rx7

[Crazydelsol]

I just pickd up this 83 rx7... Never owned nothing other than a Honda... And so far I am loving this car.. Has a really clean interior with only one tear o
n the driverseat...
Two piece wheels... Does anyone know the name of them?
Has 140k miles
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/panico91889/20120827_104351.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/alb
ums/u95/panico91889/20120827_102356.jpg

[Boosted FC]

Welcome to the Rotard family. Take care of her, cause 12A parts are almost nonexistent now.

[Sinfix_15]

302 swap! easiest swap known to man. I did it in 1 day back when i had a 1st gen rx7.


12a got sent to scrap metal and used the money to buy victory beer.

[eraser4g63]

12a is a dying breed, good luck my friend.

[Elbow]

Nice, I'm still with a 12A and cringe every time I start it. lol

13B when it goes unless another pops up that's rebuildable.

[True Pyroman]

had a buddy that had one of those.. fun cars, but gas mileage blows donkeydong.

[Crazydelsol]

Keeping the 12a .. Learning some tips to keep the engine healthy lol..

[Hermin]

cookito!

[quickdodge®]

Keeping the 12a .. Learning some tips to keep the engine healthy lol..

Good for you, man. Awesome car and glad to see you keep the running gear in the family. Later, QD.

[Crazydelsol]

cookito! guerito.....


Good for you, man. Awesome car and glad to see you keep the running gear in the family. Later, QD.

Trying to keeo everything original.sense this is an 83.... Clean wheels, new seat and call it a day

[Hermin]

get off here and get to bed, you gotta be at the shop early lol.. u driving it yet?

[Crazydelsol]

get off here and get to bed, you gotta be at the shop early lol.. u driving it yet?

Got insurance on it today... And a battery lol tomorrow will be the tag... cant wait to vaccum it and give it a wash

[Catnip]

LSx. Nothing to be lost.

[Genji-Sama]

LSx. Nothing to be lost.

Except originality, ooooooooh, jk

@OP Car looks like a gen g'luck with her :goodjob:

[RandomGuy]

Keeping the 12a .. Learning some tips to keep the engine healthy lol..

lol good luck with that one hahahaha ;)

just kidding, They're fun and according to some people rotaries aren't as hard to take apart as they've been hyped up to be. I've never had the chance, but if you come across a bad one (which you will) pick it up for scrap metal prices to play around. Next thing you know you'll do your full build and seal replacement when you need it (you will- haha)

[Sinfix_15]

LSx. Nothing to be lost.

we'll learn these kids somethin one of these days.

Ls1 is nearly the same weight as the hamster cage and without doing a single modification to the engine, you've tripled your horsepower, significantly increased your MPG and created a car that is way more reliable and less temperamental that you can actually drive in the winter time or buy parts for it from autozone.

plus, i almost burned to death in a rotary that caught on fire.

[Elbow]

LSx. Nothing to be lost.

That would be so stupid.


lol good luck with that one hahahaha ;)

just kidding, They're fun and according to some people rotaries aren't as hard to take apart as they've been hyped up to be. I've never had the chance, but if you come across a bad one (which you will) pick it up for scrap metal prices to play around. Next thing you know you'll do your full build and seal replacement when you need it (you will- haha)

Rotaries were hyped up as hard to take apart? lol They are EXTREMELY easy to completely disassemble.


we'll learn these kids somethin one of these days.

Ls1 is nearly the same weight as the hamster cage and without doing a single modification to the engine, you've tripled your horsepower, significantly increased your MPG and created a car that is way more reliable and less temperamental that you can actually drive in the winter time or buy parts for it from autozone.

plus, i almost burned to death in a rotary that caught on fire.

LS1 also is a lot larger and would make the car hard to work on, just because it's the same weight (which I'm not sure is true) doesn't mean it would work right. Can the LS sit far back in the stock engine bay? Doubtful. I've never understood removing a rotary for an LS engine. Yes they're cheap easy power, but they're boring. Nothing beats the feel or sound of a smooth revving rotary.

The only people that have issues with rotaries are those who don't understand how they work, sure they will break, and will probably break sooner than a regular piston engine, but they aren't hard to work on so...

There's also no reason a rotary would be more likely to catch fire than a LS. lol

[eraser4g63]

I can see an LS1 weighing in as the same as a 13b-rew or a 13bt but not a 12a. Just be careful when sourcing a 13b I keep seeing ones on eBay and some of the import sites that are out of forklifts. They are awesome cars and while they can be a pain the ass sometimes they are am absolute joy to own. The best advice I can give you is make sure your battery is always strong, if not you are up Shits creek. I keeps seeing RX7 and it makes me miss my old turbo FC...

[Catnip]

Nothing beats the feel or sound of a smooth revving rotary.


Never been in a big cam lsx car, huh? lol

[Elbow]

Never been in a big cam lsx car, huh? lol

Sure have.

[David88vert]

An LSx is not as reliable as a 12a. Period. It's not even close. I have not had a 12a die before 200K miles ever, and have had made 300K more than once.

As for weight - again, not even close.. The 12a is a lot lighter.

As for power, the car weighs 2100-2500, depending on model, which means it doesn't need a lot. However, you can make 300rwhp on a p-port 12a, or 650+ on a turboed and pinned motor. That's usually enough for most people.

1st gens are a lot of fun in stock form though, and there are a ton of options to improve them over time. I still wish I had one.

[Boosted FC]

I can see an LS1 weighing in as the same as a 13b-rew or a 13bt but not a 12a. Just be careful when sourcing a 13b I keep seeing ones on eBay and some of the import sites that are out of forklifts. They are awesome cars and while they can be a pain the ass sometimes they are am absolute joy to own. The best advice I can give you is make sure your battery is always strong, if not you are up Shits creek. I keeps seeing RX7 and it makes me miss my old turbo FC...

Forklifts you say. Wonder how you know that....lol

[eraser4g63]

Forklifts you say. Wonder how you know that....lol

Some clown at mazmart was talking about it, btw sheldon you known anyone looking for some speed3 wheels? (Sorry op for the thread jack)

[Boosted FC]

Some clown at mazmart was talking about it, btw sheldon you known anyone looking for some speed3 wheels? (Sorry op for the thread jack)

PM me some pics, I might be interested.

[Elbow]

My RX-7 just made me mad, stripped hole on the OMP, not sure what to do. lol I was putting a block off plate on it anyway but not sure how to insure it won't leak now.

[Boosted FC]

My RX-7 just made me mad, stripped hole on the OMP, not sure what to do. lol I was putting a block off plate on it anyway but not sure how to insure it won't leak now.

You gonna have to drill & tap for a bigger bolt. You might have to remove the front cover if you do not have enough room.

[Elbow]

You gonna have to drill & tap for a bigger bolt. You might have to remove the front cover if you do not have enough room.

Too much work and not enough time, I'll just rig it. lol

[Boosted FC]

You could try a longer bolt & see if it will grab to whatever threads are left in the hole.

[Elbow]

You could try a longer bolt & see if it will grab to whatever threads are left in the hole.

Yeah that's what I thought about trying, I just need it to last a few sessions next month then I can do it right before the ARRC in November.

[Sinfix_15]

That would be so stupid.



Rotaries were hyped up as hard to take apart? lol They are EXTREMELY easy to completely disassemble.



LS1 also is a lot larger and would make the car hard to work on, just because it's the same weight (which I'm not sure is true) doesn't mean it would work right. Can the LS sit far back in the stock engine bay? Doubtful. I've never understood removing a rotary for an LS engine. Yes they're cheap easy power, but they're boring. Nothing beats the feel or sound of a smooth revving rotary.

The only people that have issues with rotaries are those who don't understand how they work, sure they will break, and will probably break sooner than a regular piston engine, but they aren't hard to work on so...

There's also no reason a rotary would be more likely to catch fire than a LS. lol

I've worked on the rotary engine. I understand the rotary engine and i still have issues with it. Rotary engine is "neat" and that's where it stops. I've owned 4 rx7s. The only thing i like about the rotary engine is how easy it is to take out.


I understand and enjoy the small engine feel, but that feeling isnt unique to a rotary engine. there's much better ways to accomplish that experience.
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/82/67/1722876_300.jpg
http://www.jeimportperformance.com/files/RX7 SR20 0010.jpg
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHWXiZfLAIUY6vh2mGdbRGFlSWJyMxc KvBhitRabX39qx063wG0g&t=1

[Elbow]

It's not about the "small engine feel" it's about the smooth high revving characteristics. They make amazing track car engines, they're reliable to beat on, and being small and simple is just an added bonus.

[Sinfix_15]

It's not about the "small engine feel" it's about the smooth high revving characteristics. They make amazing track car engines, they're reliable to beat on, and being small and simple is just an added bonus.

Everything a rotary can do, an sr20 can do better. And that's just comparing it to something of relative size.... there's many better engines.

what is this smooth rev you're talking about? i apologize, but from years of driving cars with built and balanced engines........... everything revs smooth.

[Elbow]

Everything a rotary can do, an sr20 can do better. And that's just comparing it to something of relative size.... there's many better engines.

what is this smooth rev you're talking about? i apologize, but from years of driving cars with built and balanced engines........... everything revs smooth.

No, they can't. There's a reason you don't see loads of SR20s in cars at race tracks.

You're really going to tell me you never noticed a rotary revs smoother than a typical piston engine? You don't even have to like rotaries to admit that one.

[Sinfix_15]

No, they can't. There's a reason you don't see loads of SR20s in cars at race tracks.

You're really going to tell me you never noticed a rotary revs smoother than a typical piston engine? You don't even have to like rotaries to admit that one.

I've owned an s2000.

and yes.... there is a reason you dont see loads of sr20s at race tracks.... classes.

[Elbow]

I've owned an s2000.

and yes.... there is a reason you dont see loads of sr20s at race tracks.... classes.

Classes...OK? lol What about sports racer classes and what not where they are more open, the N/A SR fits in many classes, even track days you don't see many SR20 engines.

I don't get the S2000 statement, good 4 cylinder yes, SR20s aren't bad either, I have one, but as far as smooth goes you can't beat a rotary in my opinion.

[David88vert]

Everything a rotary can do, an sr20 can do better. And that's just comparing it to something of relative size.... there's many better engines.

what is this smooth rev you're talking about? i apologize, but from years of driving cars with built and balanced engines........... everything revs smooth.

At plenty of track days, I never found a SR-powered car that could keep with any of my RX7s. Not even once.

Don't get me wrong though - I like SR's also, but each engine has its advantages and disadvantages. You can't claim that one engine is always superior in all circumstances and be taken seriously.

[Catnip]

@ same power, lsx > rotary. Any day, any where, any time.


Keep your revs, high temps, and horrible gas mileage, I'll pass you with a mean quickness in my LSx Benz.

[Elbow]

@ same power, lsx > rotary. Any day, any where, any time.


Keep your revs, high temps, and horrible gas mileage, I'll pass you with a mean quickness in my LSx Benz.

A 500HP rotary would not lose to a 500HP LSx.

Do all LS owners live in lala land? lol

[eraser4g63]

A 500HP rotary would not lose to a 500HP LSx.

Do all LS owners live in lala land? lol

Typically it is only the Vette and F-body owners but the disease seems to be spreading.

[David88vert]

A 500HP rotary would not lose to a 500HP LSx.


That's not necessarily true. The heavier the car, the more the torque of the LSx would come into play. With a heavy enough car, the LSx would have more acceleration. In a lighter car, the rotary would have a huge handling advantage on a road course. Different situations change the available performance.

[David88vert]

@ same power, lsx > rotary. Any day, any where, any time.


Not even close to true. My stock FD made less power than stock Corvettes and I was a lot faster than them on the track. My NA FB was even faster, but it wasn't stock. You cannot remove the driver from the race, or we wouldn't even need to have any races.

[Elbow]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about drag racing.

Not that the driver doesn't matter there, but I would figure it would be a little less dramatic.

[Sinfix_15]

Not even close to true. My stock FD made less power than stock Corvettes and I was a lot faster than them on the track. My NA FB was even faster, but it wasn't stock. You cannot remove the driver from the race, or we wouldn't even need to have any races.

I think you're missing the point. Your claiming that you out run sr20 powered cars in your rx7......... and im sure you do........

but because its an rx7..... not because its rotary. The argument isnt rx7 vs other nonrotary powered cars....

im not saying 240sx > rx7..... im saying (insert engine here) rx7 > rotary rx7. Id take an sr20 powered rx7 any day of the week over a rotary.

[Sinfix_15]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about drag racing.

Not that the driver doesn't matter there, but I would figure it would be a little less dramatic.

any racing............. an ls1 rx7 is a better car... better at everything. any track any where. leguna seca or the salt flats.... it's simply a better car.


rx7 is a great vehicle... legendary vehicle... worthy of all the recognition and praise it gets.............. but the engine is horse shit.

[Elbow]

any racing............. an ls1 rx7 is a better car... better at everything. any track any where. leguna seca or the salt flats.... it's simply a better car.


rx7 is a great vehicle... legendary vehicle... worthy of all the recognition and praise it gets.............. but the engine is horse shit.

You're an idiot if you think that! LOL!

Tell me why there aren't that many V8 swapped RX-7s at the track then! Better yet tell me why there are hundreds of rotary powered race cars and even many times racing against V8 powered cars. You're basing that opinion on NOTHING and it's so wrong it's funny. Maybe the little street tuner crowd you seem to associate yourself with don't like rotaries, but in real racing, they're widely used and widely successful. Ever heard of Formula Mazda/Star Mazda? Those cars can run three seasons without even remotely rebuilding the engine.

Here's a stupid rotary for you:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQkhE6BOwK4

[David88vert]

any racing............. an ls1 rx7 is a better car... better at everything. any track any where. leguna seca or the salt flats.... it's simply a better car.
rx7 is a great vehicle... legendary vehicle... worthy of all the recognition and praise it gets.............. but the engine is horse shit.

I've had a bunch of them, and they have been a lot more reliable than a lot of other motors. They also made the car into a much more balanced machine than other motors. So, how is the motor poor? If you want low emissions and high mpg, get a 4 cyl Honda, not an engine that is ready to go racing. If you want an engine with torque to haul stuff around, get a truck with an lsx, not a little RX7.


I think you're missing the point. Your claiming that you out run sr20 powered cars in your rx7......... and im sure you do........
but because its an rx7..... not because its rotary. The argument isnt rx7 vs other nonrotary powered cars....
im not saying 240sx > rx7..... im saying (insert engine here) rx7 > rotary rx7. Id take an sr20 powered rx7 any day of the week over a rotary.

An SR cannot maintain the same engine placement/weight as the 12a or 13b. NA - p-port 13b's are not really streetable, but will kill a built NA SR. A decent ported 12a can still make 200rwhp though, so still better in light car than an SR.
Turbo - I know of home-built turboed 12a's in GA that make over 650rwhp. Not exactly weak from a 1.1L.
Now - either engine can supply more power than a light chassis should need. HP is nothing without traction.

The OP has a clean FB with limited traction. There is no reason to change from rotary. Dropping in a 13B-T is the easiest swap for him to do. Get a TII, and everything pops in. Very easy way to put 250rwhp down with only a couple of mods. 250rwhp in a stock FB is a lot.

[EJ25RUN]

any racing............. an ls1 rx7 is a better car... better at everything. any track any where. leguna seca or the salt flats.... it's simply a better car.
rx7 is a great vehicle... legendary vehicle... worthy of all the recognition and praise it gets.............. but the engine is horse shit.

Wherever you read this, have a look at Jim Downing's builds.

Plus, in American IMSA history, Rotary powered cars have the highest winning percentage over any other power plant.

LAguna Seca btw.

[Sinfix_15]

You're an idiot if you think that! LOL!

Tell me why there aren't that many V8 swapped RX-7s at the track then! Better yet tell me why there are hundreds of rotary powered race cars and even many times racing against V8 powered cars. You're basing that opinion on NOTHING and it's so wrong it's funny. Maybe the little street tuner crowd you seem to associate yourself with don't like rotaries, but in real racing, they're widely used and widely successful. Ever heard of Formula Mazda/Star Mazda? Those cars can run three seasons without even remotely rebuilding the engine.

Here's a stupid rotary for you:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQkhE6BOwK4

I'm basing that on owning rx7s and doing v8 rx7 conversions. Driving them before and after. I'm basing it on years of being on rx7 forums and having conversations with people who also own rx7s and drove them before and after v8 conversions. You live right next door to hinson supercars.... you should know better.

Agree to disagree is all i can tell you. The next time i own an rx7 i'll let you know which dumpster you can find a rotary in.

[Sinfix_15]

Wherever you read this, have a look at Jim Downing's builds.

Plus, in American IMSA history, Rotary powered cars have the highest winning percentage over any other power plant.

LAguna Seca btw.

Class specifications always benefit the rotary engine. You really think rotaries would win anything in a "run what you brung" environment?

[Elbow]

I'm basing that on owning rx7s and doing v8 rx7 conversions. Driving them before and after. I'm basing it on years of being on rx7 forums and having conversations with people who also own rx7s and drove them before and after v8 conversions. You live right next door to hinson supercars.... you should know better.

Agree to disagree is all i can tell you. The next time i own an rx7 i'll let you know which dumpster you can find a rotary in.

Cool, I look forward to picking it up.

Last time I checked Hinson is in AL...lol. I do however live close to Downing, Team Spencer, Dempsey, and other teams that successfully race rotary powered cars.


Class specifications always benefit the rotary engine. You really think rotaries would win anything in a "run what you brung" environment?

Rotaries are typically heavily restricted so that's not exactly true. I recall an old tube frame 510 with a rotary in it that use to beat up on ex-NASCARs so...think what you like. lol

[Sinfix_15]

Cool, I look forward to picking it up.

Last time I checked Hinson is in AL...lol. I do however live close to Downing, Team Spencer, Dempsey, and other teams that successfully race rotary powered cars.



Rotaries are typically heavily restricted so that's not exactly true. I recall an old tube frame 510 with a rotary in it that use to beat up on ex-NASCARs so...think what you like. lol

again...... you're giving the engine credit for the car........ The 510 is a great vehicle............ it's not the rotary. sr20 510 would do the same thing.

Rx7 is one of my favorite cars ever, its just highly unfortunate that they built them with the wrong engine. I view this as a right of passage, you have to remove the rotary engine to prove that you're worthy of owning the car.

[Elbow]

again...... you're giving the engine credit for the car........ The 510 is a great vehicle............ it's not the rotary. sr20 510 would do the same thing.

Rx7 is one of my favorite cars ever, its just highly unfortunate that they built them with the wrong engine. I view this as a right of passage, you have to remove the rotary engine to prove that you're worthy of owning the car.

No...it wouldn't. lol A 700HP SR20 would not be as reliable or efficient on a road course as a 700HP rotary. It was a tube framed car, 510 means nothing, 510 body is about all 510 that was on the car, a real 510 would have no chance against stock cars.

You need to get out more and learn before you spread your opinions as facts.

I'm not saying the rotary is the god of road racing engines, I'm just saying they're not pointless as you seem to think.

[Sinfix_15]

No...it wouldn't. lol A 700HP SR20 would not be as reliable or efficient on a road course as a 700HP rotary. It was a tube framed car, 510 means nothing, 510 body is about all 510 that was on the car, a real 510 would have no chance against stock cars.

You need to get out more and learn before you spread your opinions as facts.

I "got out" purchased an rx7.... eventually did a v8 conversion and formed an opinion based on those experiences. I watched the v8 rx7 revolution form into what it is now. Hinson supercars........... I raced Brain Hinson on a back road before anyone knew who he was.

being a tube frame car just goes further to make my point for me................... no, it wasnt a 510.... it became something better than a 510. You could put a lot of engines in a 510 tube race car and produce the same result.

[Elbow]

I "got out" purchased an rx7.... eventually did a v8 conversion and formed an opinion based on those experiences. I watched the v8 rx7 revolution form into what it is now. Hinson supercars........... I raced Brain Hinson on a back road before anyone knew who he was.

...OK? lol

[Sinfix_15]

...OK? lol

you said i need to "get out more" and discredited my opinion of rotaries..... I've owned 4 rx7s.... how much getting out do i need to do? am i not qualified to have an opinion until i'm the driver of the 787b?

[Elbow]

you said i need to "get out more" and discredited my opinion of rotaries..... I've owned 4 rx7s.... how much getting out do i need to do? am i not qualified to have an opinion until i'm the driver of the 787b?

I don't care what you've owned or who you've raced against. Statistics and results speak for themselves and you're going against those, which makes no sense.

Just because you had four RX-7s and didn't like them doesn't mean anything is better than a rotary or that an RX-7 is always better with a V8.

[Sinfix_15]

I don't care what you've owned or who you've raced against. Statistics and results speak for themselves and you're going against those, which makes no sense.

Just because you had four RX-7s and didn't like them doesn't mean anything is better than a rotary or that an RX-7 is always better with a V8.

Ok, lets talk statistics.

24 hr Lemans is the premier sports car race in the world. 1 Rotary in the history of humanity has won that race.
Ok, lets move on over to JGTC and see how rotaries are doin.............. what? only 1 win there too????? Even a Silvia has 1 win...................

Rotary dominates the under 2 liter race though...... congratulations on that gimmick. Displacement measurement sure is fair and balanced between a rotary and a piston.

[Elbow]

Ok, lets talk statistics.

24 hr Lemans is the premier sports car race in the world. 1 Rotary in the history of humanity has won that race.
Ok, lets move on over to JGTC and see how rotaries are doin.............. what? only 1 win there too????? Even a Silvia has 1 win...................

Rotary dominates the under 2 liter race though...... congratulations on that gimmick. Displacement measurement sure is fair and balanced between a rotary and a piston.

One win at Le Mans yes and a pretty lucky win. However rotaries have always suffered from heavy restrictions because they are that much more efficient.

I guess you forgot about the other results:

-24 Hours of Daytona class wins 10 years in a row.
-IMSA GTU Championship wins.
-Large RX-8 success in the Rolex series with two Rolex 24 wins.

Should I keep going?

FYI rotaries are typically classed in higher displacement classes.

[dragoncelica]

Me,
If is a Drag oriented car i will go with the LS V8 engine no doubt about it, also if is a play car a street machine, But if is going to be a dedicated road race machine i will do a P-Port 13B followed by a Hollinger semi-sequential trany, it will make a killer combo on a light first get RX-7 a complete track MONSTER,

But again that is my likes and preferences,

By the way i am building a 12A engine that i am doing a awesome Turbo Street Port and the side-housings after the port job will be lapped at Downing performance that is going to be in a street Toyota TE72 that is going to be around very soon, and as soon as my customer allowed me i will post pictures!

By the way, Simontibet, awesome video on that Rotary car at RA!

[Boosted FC]

Never knew Downing did lapping or anything along the lines of engine work at all.

[Sinfix_15]

One win at Le Mans yes and a pretty lucky win. However rotaries have always suffered from heavy restrictions because they are that much more efficient.

I guess you forgot about the other results:

-24 Hours of Daytona class wins 10 years in a row.
-IMSA GTU Championship wins.
-Large RX-8 success in the Rolex series with two Rolex 24 wins.

Should I keep going?

FYI rotaries are typically classed in higher displacement classes.

yeah........... 10 years in a row in the 2 liter class.

[Elbow]

yeah........... 10 years in a row in the 2 liter class.

...and the others?

I can post more results than that above your 2 liter argument. You can't win here. lol

[Sinfix_15]

...and the others?

I can post more results than that above your 2 liter argument. You can't win here. lol

shows how great the rx7 really is....... managed to win some races even with a handicapped engine.

[Sinfix_15]

count me out of the "argument" for now, i may continue to respond at some point tonight..... but i tweaked my back today and in about 15 minutes im probably not gonna remember my own name. :goodjob:

[Elbow]

shows how great the rx7 really is....... managed to win some races even with a handicapped engine.

Some? lol

Do research then post.

[RandomGuy]

I got an FB RX-7 yesterday from Aaron (Allmota) and it is awesome
Pic: Atlanta Spottings 6 | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=385648961505772&set=a.385648534839148.87080.265144536889549&type=3&theater)

Traded my EG hatch for it because he really wanted one. Back in the day he had a white EG hatch and came to the various gwinnett meets if anyone remembers. I also got a 78 corolla from him many years ago, Thanks a lot Aaron!

[Elbow]

I got an FB RX-7 yesterday from Aaron (Allmota) and it is awesome
Pic: Atlanta Spottings 6 | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=385648961505772&set=a.385648534839148.87080.265144536889549&type=3&theater)

Traded my EG hatch for it because he really wanted one. Back in the day he had a white EG hatch and came to the various gwinnett meets if anyone remembers. I also got a 78 corolla from him many years ago, Thanks a lot Aaron!

Nice, looks good.

[Sinfix_15]

Some? lol

Do research then post.

Some
1: one indeterminate quantity, portion, or number as distinguished from the rest

2: an indefinite additional amount <ran a mile and then some>


It annoys me greatly when someone attempting to talk down to me cant understand the simplest of things.

[EJ25RUN]

Class specifications always benefit the rotary engine. You really think rotaries would win anything in a "run what you brung" environment?

What is a run what you brung environment? What keeps me from showing up with a GE90? That's quite open ended as nowhere does it say i can't show up with JATO propulsion.

i see you'll discredit a rotary no matter what the circumstance. No matter how winning the result. They only place i'll give you a rotary is worse of then an American V8 is the expense required.

I seriously can't believe someone who says a rotary car having a racing class make specs specifically for it. In fact, most race organisers tried their best to keep a rotary restricted as much as possible. Never more so than 1991's Le Mans

In 1991 at Le Mans, the ACO did whatever possible to keep Mazda from racing the 787B. Only word from Jacky Ickx changed their mind. So they allowed the car to be built to Category 2 specification. Not the more current Category 1 with F1 derived engines. To add, all the Cat 1 cars would start at the front of the grid irregardless of where they qualified. So, the 787B started 19th even though it qualified 12th.

Competition for the 787B; the last 3 great Gr C race cars. Pugs 905, Sauber C11, and the fendered F1 car that was the Jag XJR-14.


Ok, lets talk statistics.

24 hr Lemans is the premier sports car race in the world. 1 Rotary in the history of humanity has won that race.
Ok, lets move on over to JGTC and see how rotaries are doin.............. what? only 1 win there too????? Even a Silvia has 1 win...................

Rotary dominates the under 2 liter race though...... congratulations on that gimmick. Displacement measurement sure is fair and balanced between a rotary and a piston.

Rotaries...banned at Le Mans since 1992.

JGTC in terms of GT500 or GT300?
GT500 requires facotry efforts and Mazda has never had one.
GT300. That car was built by Re Amemiya not a factory team as the issue with the GT300 is not engine but chassis choice. You can even race Daytona Prototypes against GT3s.

What under 2 liter racing are you talking about?

[Sinfix_15]

What is a run what you brung environment? What keeps me from showing up with a GE90? That's quite open ended as nowhere does it say i can't show up with JATO propulsion.

i see you'll discredit a rotary no matter what the circumstance. No matter how winning the result. They only place i'll give you a rotary is worse of then an American V8 is the expense required.

I seriously can't believe someone who says a rotary car having a racing class make specs specifically for it. In fact, most race organisers tried their best to keep a rotary restricted as much as possible. Never more so than 1991's Le Mans

In 1991 at Le Mans, the ACO did whatever possible to keep Mazda from racing the 787B. Only word from Jacky Ickx changed their mind. So they allowed the car to be built to Category 2 specification. Not the more current Category 1 with F1 derived engines. To add, all the Cat 1 cars would start at the front of the grid irregardless of where they qualified. So, the 787B started 19th even though it qualified 12th.

Competition for the 787B; the last 3 great Gr C race cars. Pugs 905, Sauber C11, and the fendered F1 car that was the Jag XJR-14.



Rotaries...banned at Le Mans since 1992.

JGTC in terms of GT500 or GT300?
GT500 requires facotry efforts and Mazda has never had one.
GT300. That car was built by Re Amemiya not a factory team as the issue with the GT300 is not engine but chassis choice. You can even race Daytona Prototypes against GT3s.

What under 2 liter racing are you talking about?

"run what you brung" would be a class without ballast weight requirements. The ban that effected the 787b was announced before the car won, it wasnt a result of the car winning. just so happens the car won the year before it took effect. They add weight based on displacement, there's no fair and accurate way to apply a universal rule for both piston and rotary engines. The 787b was much lighter than any car on the track that day, thats why it won..... not because it was rotary powered. Being rotary was the reason it was allowed to be so light, but not the reason it won.

Also, you rotards are getting all butt hurt about my opinion. I'm not comparing the engine to a Ford Fiesta engine.... so far i've compared it to an sr20 and an ls1...... if you're insulted by me comparing a rotary to either of those highly respected engines..... then you need to pull your head out of the clouds.

As i said before, agree to disagree..... i love rx7s.... rx7 will most likely be my next project, when it happens..... i'll let you guys know which dumpster you can find a rotary in.

[Elbow]

"run what you brung" would be a class without ballast weight requirements. The ban that effected the 787b was announced before the car won, it wasnt a result of the car winning. just so happens the car won the year before it took effect. They add weight based on displacement, there's no fair and accurate way to apply a universal rule for both piston and rotary engines. The 787b was much lighter than any car on the track that day, thats why it won..... not because it was rotary powered. Being rotary was the reason it was allowed to be so light, but not the reason it won.

Also, you rotards are getting all butt hurt about my opinion. I'm not comparing the engine to a Ford Fiesta engine.... so far i've compared it to an sr20 and an ls1...... if you're insulted by me comparing a rotary to either of those highly respected engines..... then you need to pull your head out of the clouds.

As i said before, agree to disagree..... i love rx7s.... rx7 will most likely be my next project, when it happens..... i'll let you guys know which dumpster you can find a rotary in.

Once again, do research, then talk. All of your weight talk isn't exactly the problem. Rotaries have always faced large restrictions. Rotary powered race cars were not allowed to be lighter to the extent of domination, do you think the organizers were just stupid and thought oh small engine, it must be slow, here weigh less? They don't just apply weight regulations. RESTRICTORS. Once again, RESEARCH. Typically rotaries are forced to run in higher displacement classes, not sure why you keep ignoring facts. The 787B happened to be what, 100lbs lighter than the 2nd place car? You think that's why it won? LOL

Not only rotary cars are allowed to be lighter where some cases they are, like I said, it's racing, unless it's a spec series cars will be adjusted to be competitive. That's the way racing works.

There are no "run what you brung" classes in any major racing organizations, this is racing, not the fast and the furious. The few "run what you brung" classes that do exist in amateur road racing, rotaries are actually quite dominant when they show up, once again, do research because you're just guessing.

I don't care what you compare a rotary to, but I will say an SR20 is not better in road race configuration. Not a chance.

[Sinfix_15]

Once again, do research, then talk. All of your weight talk isn't exactly the problem. Rotaries have always faced large restrictions. Rotary powered race cars were not allowed to be lighter to the extent of domination, do you think the organizers were just stupid and thought oh small engine, it must be slow, here weigh less? They don't just apply weight regulations. RESTRICTORS. Once again, RESEARCH. Typically rotaries are forced to run in higher displacement classes, not sure why you keep ignoring facts. The 787B happened to be what, 100lbs lighter than the 2nd place car? You think that's why it won? LOL

Not only rotary cars are allowed to be lighter where some cases they are, like I said, it's racing, unless it's a spec series cars will be adjusted to be competitive. That's the way racing works.

There are no "run what you brung" classes in any major racing organizations, this is racing, not the fast and the furious. The few "run what you brung" classes that do exist in amateur road racing, rotaries are actually quite dominant when they show up, once again, do research because you're just guessing.

I don't care what you compare a rotary to, but I will say an SR20 is not better in road race configuration. Not a chance.

initially the cars were 100KG lighter, no lbs... 100kg = 220lbs, after qualifying they argued for more weight removal and eventually got down to 830kg, almost 400lbs lighter than the class requirement.

787b didnt win because it was the fastest car. The 787b that won, qualified 19th.... the others qualified as low as 24th. The 787b that won didnt record a single lap faster than the merc. The same 787b that won lemans, went on to finish 10th in it's next race when the weight was added back to the car. 787b won lemans because it tire and gassed a bunch of heavier cars.... not because it was the fastest car. Being right at 400lbs lighter than any other car..................keep in mind.... these are cars that only weigh around 2200 lbs.... 400 lbs is a massive difference....... they raced a fuel/tire conservation race and won.

so do some fucking research you stuck up faggot

I've said the same shit from my first post and you keep telling me to do research.... do i have to spell everything out for you fucking jackasses. I dont like for every fucking one of my posts to look like a goddamn history channel exhibit but you kids wont take anything less. i dont care if you disagree with me, but telling me to do research ive obviously done 50 times just makes me want to reach thru the screen and slap you. i've clearly pointed out holes in your "research", so now you can move along and quit annoying me. I've already extended the olive branch to you by offering you the dumpster location for my rotaries.

[dragoncelica]

The 787B was Banned from endurance races cuz the engine (AFTER RESEARCH) from FIA, FIA determine that the 4 rotor engine got more displacement than what Mazda claim it got, FIA said that Mazda got to count each and every side of each Triangle in the engine, mean 652cc X 12 to a whooping 7.824 liter displacement,

In Drag Racing The 3 rotor engine in the Modified Class got to weight the same as a Inline 6 Piston counterpart, also in the Full Chassis Class the same, the 13B 2 rotor need to weight the same as any 4 cylinder on both classes too,

And yes there is no race sanction that allowed a class like RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG, that is just non existent, unless is in Atlanta Motor Speed Way on Friday nights drag.

Also endurance races not always get won by the fastest cars, they do get won by the more reliable team, and hell yes the 400 Lbs. advantage play a big role on fuel savings and tire degradation!

[Sinfix_15]

The 787B was Banned from endurance races cuz the engine (AFTER RESEARCH) from FIA, FIA determine that the 4 rotor engine got more displacement than what Mazda claim it got, FIA said that Mazda got to count each and every side of each Triangle in the engine, mean 652cc X 12 to a whooping 7.824 liter displacement,

In Drag Racing The 3 rotor engine in the Modified Class got to weight the same as a Inline 6 Piston counterpart, also in the Full Chassis Class the same, the 13B 2 rotor need to weight the same as any 4 cylinder on both classes too,

And yes there is no race sanction that allowed a class like RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG, that is just non existent, unless is in Atlanta Motor Speed Way on Friday nights drag.

Also endurance races not always get won by the fastest cars, they do get won by the more reliable team, and hell yes the 400 Lbs. advantage play a big role on fuel savings and tire degradation!

So given what we know.........

Mazda has 1 win ever in 24 lemans.
Mazda underrates their displacement to gain weight advantages.
Mazda's 1 win was with a 400lb weight advantage (note: cars only weigh 2200lbs)
The fastest Mazda qualified 19th.
Mazda won off fuel and tire management, not speed. Didnt post a single lap faster than runner up.


What is a more accurate statement to make?

A: Mazda's win is a black mark on history seeing as how they more or less cheated to win.
B: A clear example of rotary superiority to piston engines.

[dragoncelica]

Well basically yes and no,

They win with the rules as they where, as like any Mazda book they classified the engine as it just have 2 combustion chambers cuz they are like that but what they didnt say is those 2 combustion chambers share 2 rotors with 3 sides each, in a 2 rotor motor, thats why they are the 1.3 (13B) that consume Gas like a 3.9, go figure,

But Mazda did play the rules on that race fair and square, and they win legally, but the complains from the big $$$ competitors landed instantly like a 10 megaton BOMB and FIA did what they do the very NEXT race and the rest is History.

Toyota is doing a Big effort this year to get away with a Hybrid Car i hope they do have a win too, in Le Mans, but Audy and others have a very good Hybrid setup too, that is as good if not better, than the Toyota one, lets see what happen!

[Elbow]

So given what we know.........

Mazda has 1 win ever in 24 lemans.
Mazda underrates their displacement to gain weight advantages.
Mazda's 1 win was with a 400lb weight advantage (note: cars only weigh 2200lbs)
The fastest Mazda qualified 19th.
Mazda won off fuel and tire management, not speed. Didnt post a single lap faster than runner up.


What is a more accurate statement to make?

A: Mazda's win is a black mark on history seeing as how they more or less cheated to win.
B: A clear example of rotary superiority to piston engines.

I like how you're singling out Le Mans as the only race that matters to the rotary now and ignoring results elsewhere. Did the SR20 or LS ever win Le Mans overall? lol

Like I said, the 787B winning Le Mans was luck, it wasn't because it was the fastest car, or the lightest, they just had better luck and kept a smooth race.

This thread is dumb, I already said I agree to disagree but you keep posting, you don't like the rotary, I do, we both agree they aren't God's gift to the automotive world, what else is there to say? lol IT'S A DAMN ENGINE WHO CARES?!?!?!

[g35 boost]

nice!!

[nelson9995]

I like how you're singling out Le Mans as the only race that matters to the rotary now and ignoring results elsewhere. Did the SR20 or LS ever win Le Mans overall? lol

Like I said, the 787B winning Le Mans was luck, it wasn't because it was the fastest car, or the lightest, they just had better luck and kept a smooth race.

This thread is dumb, I already said I agree to disagree but you keep posting, you don't like the rotary, I do, we both agree they aren't God's gift to the automotive world, what else is there to say? lol IT'S A DAMN ENGINE WHO CARES?!?!?!
seems like you got shut down in your own argument now you're trying to end it.
that's smart though
if you can't beat him join him.

[Sinfix_15]

I like how you're singling out Le Mans as the only race that matters to the rotary now and ignoring results elsewhere. Did the SR20 or LS ever win Le Mans overall? lol

Like I said, the 787B winning Le Mans was luck, it wasn't because it was the fastest car, or the lightest, they just had better luck and kept a smooth race.

This thread is dumb, I already said I agree to disagree but you keep posting, you don't like the rotary, I do, we both agree they aren't God's gift to the automotive world, what else is there to say? lol IT'S A DAMN ENGINE WHO CARES?!?!?!

well......... unlike the 4 rotor mazda................. the sr20 is actually a production engine. I wonder what would happen if you added 2 more pistons to the sr20..............................................

you see where im going with this dont you?


my annoyance wasnt with you disagreeing with me. I welcome everyone to disagree with me. You keep telling me to "do research" before i post, you should know by now that i do.

[Elbow]

seems like you got shut down in your own argument now you're trying to end it.
that's smart though
if you can't beat him join him.

Really? Because I ever argued about the 787B? lol....

There's no way to win an argument that started on opinions, I can't make him like what I like, so what's the point in continuing?


well......... unlike the 4 rotor mazda................. the sr20 is actually a production engine. I wonder what would happen if you added 2 more pistons to the sr20..............................................

you see where im going with this dont you?


my annoyance wasnt with you disagreeing with me. I welcome everyone to disagree with me. You keep telling me to "do research" before i post, you should know by now that i do.

You clearly did research on the 787B, because the win at Le Mans was the only win they had that was controversial and luck. You never backed up any championships or series race wins. All this started with was rotaries are great road race engines with loads of success, I even said the Le Mans win wasn't really on my list of success as I'm the first to say that win was 100% luck.

You argue competition adjustments when the reality is EVERY car racing has adjustments to be competitive. V8, V12, V10, turbo 4 cylinder, doesn't matter, they all have adjustments. Typically rotaries face very tight restrictor plate restrictions and that was the death of rotaries in professional sports car racing aside from the GA RX-8s which will be done after this year.

In the end it doesn't matter, it's road racing, pick what you want to run with and race. If everyone ran V8s we would change the name...to NASCAR. I don't know what you were getting at with the SR20 thing, you're saying the R26B was an unfair engine because it wasn't a production engine? lol

[dragoncelica]

Mater of facts the RB26DETT is not an SR20DT counterpart, that would be the CA18DET, what he meant was that an SR20 with 2 more pistons would be an engine Nissan never produce, like the Mazda 4 Rotor.

[Elbow]

Mater of facts the RB26DETT is not an SR20DT counterpart, that would be the CA18DET, what he meant was that an SR20 with 2 more pistons would be an engine Nissan never produce, like the Mazda 4 Rotor.

Gotcha, but what does that matter?

[dragoncelica]

Nothing
Lol

[Sinfix_15]

Really? Because I ever argued about the 787B? lol....

There's no way to win an argument that started on opinions, I can't make him like what I like, so what's the point in continuing?



You clearly did research on the 787B, because the win at Le Mans was the only win they had that was controversial and luck. You never backed up any championships or series race wins. All this started with was rotaries are great road race engines with loads of success, I even said the Le Mans win wasn't really on my list of success as I'm the first to say that win was 100% luck.

You argue competition adjustments when the reality is EVERY car racing has adjustments to be competitive. V8, V12, V10, turbo 4 cylinder, doesn't matter, they all have adjustments. Typically rotaries face very tight restrictor plate restrictions and that was the death of rotaries in professional sports car racing aside from the GA RX-8s which will be done after this year.

In the end it doesn't matter, it's road racing, pick what you want to run with and race. If everyone ran V8s we would change the name...to NASCAR. I don't know what you were getting at with the SR20 thing, you're saying the R26B was an unfair engine because it wasn't a production engine? lol

yeah, every race car has adjustments to make it competitive. In my opinion...... the rotary showing up with the attitude of "look at poor us, we need to remove some weight to be competitive" makes my point for me. If we go to a bracket race and a civic has a 3 second head start over a mustang and then beats that mustang by .1 second, then we can make the case that the mustang is the better car even though the civic did win under the circumstances and rules. THAT is the argument i am making against rotaries....... the rotary engine's crowning achievement is one that required the rest of the field to be heavily handicapped to give them a chance.

Rotary faces very tight restrictions????? like what???? actually having to recognize their real displacement? is that being heavily restricted? "hey rotary guys.... we're not gonna let you tell us your engine has the displacement of a weedeater anymore"

Rotard - "ZOMGZZZZ these restrictions are too much?!?!?!?!??!"

Rotary engines are unique and interesting. They are not better than pistons engines. You know how i know that????


because Honda didnt do it.

[dragoncelica]

Here they must use this one istead!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c390/CANDUNGO1515/Mobile%20Uploads/7D2F102C-A795-4E17-A21A-125E523554C5-1405-0000018326139DB7.jpg

[Elbow]

yeah, every race car has adjustments to make it competitive. In my opinion...... the rotary showing up with the attitude of "look at poor us, we need to remove some weight to be competitive" makes my point for me. If we go to a bracket race and a civic has a 3 second head start over a mustang and then beats that mustang by .1 second, then we can make the case that the mustang is the better car even though the civic did win under the circumstances and rules. THAT is the argument i am making against rotaries....... the rotary engine's crowning achievement is one that required the rest of the field to be heavily handicapped to give them a chance.

Rotary faces very tight restrictions????? like what???? actually having to recognize their real displacement? is that being heavily restricted? "hey rotary guys.... we're not gonna let you tell us your engine has the displacement of a weedeater anymore"

Rotard - "ZOMGZZZZ these restrictions are too much?!?!?!?!??!"

Rotary engines are unique and interesting. They are not better than pistons engines. You know how i know that????


because Honda didnt do it.

I'm done with this convo, it's going nowhere, you're arguing about Le Mans when I'm agreeing with you and ignoring everything else.

I still love you.