College Tuition Costs are up 14% in 5 years despite ALL TIME HIGHS in enrollment.....

[Vteckidd]

ABOLISH FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS. Heres why:

Im going back to school this fall to finish up my degree. When shopping (yes shopping) for which college to attend, i found the following:
Chattahoochee Technical College- $75 PER CREDIT HOUR
Georgia State University- $385 PER CREDIT HOUR

BOth are accredited universities, both are part of the Georgia Collegiate "system" and both allow credits to transfer between college. Why is there a huge increase in price between GSU and CTU? Figure that most Freshman and Sophmores will take the 10-12 remedial classes that EVERY freshman will have to take:

ENglish 101/102
College Math
Science/Biology
HIstory/Geography
Elective

Why would you even THINK about attending GSU for your first 2 years????? WHY WOULD YOU PAY ALMOST 5 times the cost for the SAME education? It is mind boggling to me why the cost is so high.

Normal economics can apply to SOME of the costs like GSU is bigger, has more facilities, probably a better "teaching staff" that gets paid more, more prestigious than a technical college, located in Downtown Atlanta so property value is more, etc. But this isnt HARVARD we are talking about, its a STATE COLLEGE?

The problem with college tuition IMO is that we have federal backed subsidized loans that require NO COMPETITION from the universities to compete for YOU DOLLAR. They charge whatever they want because the FEDS ARE PAYING IT. Same thing happened with houses. When we got this crazy notion that every person DESERVED a house, we handed out loans to people who werent qualified. All of the sudden, when EVERyoNE is able to buy a house, the housing community said "OH SHIT, FREE MONEY" and prices on houses skyrocketed.

If you know that someone is paying the bill with unlimited funds, you will charge whatever you can get away with and not really think about competing. That is what happens with College Tuition. The colleges have no incentive to cut costs or run efficiently. THey are being paid with free govt loans that the feds give out to ANYONE, even illegal immigrants.

We should repeal the Federal Subsidized Student Loan programs and then people who REALLY want to go to college should get loans from banks, local institutions, and it wont cost nearly as much as colleges would have to lower tuition costs to gain your dollar, and COMPETE.


Strange New Ways to Pay for College - SmartMoney.com (http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/thats-how-you-paid-for-college-1343417590557/)

[Browning151]

ABOLISH FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS.
You ignorant, racist, bigoted, neocon punk! How dare you suggest we take away someone's RIGHT to a college education, you asshole! You don't care anything about the poor people, or the inner city kids that can't afford to go to college, you're just some right-wing elitist.


/sarcasm.


I completely agree.


The problem with college tuition IMO is that we have federal backed subsidized loans that require NO COMPETITION from the universities to compete for YOU DOLLAR. They charge whatever they want because the FEDS ARE PAYING IT. Same thing happened with houses. When we got this crazy notion that every person DESERVED a house, we handed out loans to people who werent qualified. All of the sudden, when EVERyoNE is able to buy a house, the housing community said "OH SHIT, FREE MONEY" and prices on houses skyrocketed.

If you know that someone is paying the bill with unlimited funds, you will charge whatever you can get away with and not really think about competing. That is what happens with College Tuition. The colleges have no incentive to cut costs or run efficiently. THey are being paid with free govt loans that the feds give out to ANYONE, even illegal immigrants.


Healthcare will eventually be headed down the same road as gov't gets more involved.

[oreign]

Why would you even THINK about attending GSU for your first 2 years????? WHY WOULD YOU PAY ALMOST 5 times the cost for the SAME education? It is mind boggling to me why the cost is so high.


because i don't have to pay for it. lol

[bu villain]

I'm sorry I don't understand. I thought government backed student loans were just loans, that is they have to be payed back the same as any other loan. How are they free exactly? What makes them different from private loans? Student loans are actual worse than normal loans because they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. The biggest problem is that consumers don't think about they value they are getting for their money when it comes to college. I don't see how the loans being government backed or private bank backed matters.

[Vteckidd]

I'm sorry I don't understand. I thought government backed student loans were just loans, that is they have to be payed back the same as any other loan. How are they free exactly? What makes them different from private loans? Student loans are actual worse than normal loans because they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. The biggest problem is that consumers don't think about they value they are getting for their money when it comes to college. I don't see how the loans being government backed or private bank backed matters.

Federal loans are given to EVERYONE. This drives costs UP, becuase colleges have no incentive to lower prices.

Theres a reason why banks dont offer loans at 1.5-3%.

[C230K]

so I should get a loan from the bank and get myself into debt just so someone like you could pay less?

[Vteckidd]

so I should get a loan from the bank and get myself into debt just so someone like you could pay less?

YOure comparing apples and oranges.

You realize WHY loan rates go UP right? It depends on Credit score, assets, availability to pay it back, etc. No bank wants to loan you $60-80K at 1.5% for education. its a bad investment.

Youre assuming costs wont go DOWN. YOu think the banks would keep loan rates the same if you were trying to borrow HALF the money (because tuition went down)?

The fact is everyone has the right to GO TO COLLEGE, not everyone SHOULD go to college. We subsidize people to go by guaranteeing their loans in the form of Federal loan programs. The universities have NO COMPETITION so they continue to raise prices KNOWING the FEDS are paying the bill no matter what.

The answer is YES, you should look at college like a business decision. If it costs you 16% to go to college in loan rates, youll either be serious about graduating and paying that off, or youll decide NOT to go. Either choice is better than the alternative.

[Vteckidd]

Remove the federal govt from subsidizing the college education and enrollment will drop, colleges will have to lower tuition prices, banks will have to compete for your dollar and youll have to take school MUCH more seriously. We wont have these career kids who go to school for 8-10 years for a low level degree and rack up tremendous debt.

Student loans is vast becoming the new welfare system.

Tell me HOW COSTS RISE, WHEN ENROLLMENT IS AT ALL TIME HIGHS? IF MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COLLEGE NOW THAN EVER BEFORE, WHY DO RATES CONTINUE TO SKYROCKET?

THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED IN HOUSING, WHY IS EDUCATION ANY DIFFERENT? IF anything education is WORSE because there is no tangible asset if you default on the loan.

[David88vert]

I'm sorry I don't understand. I thought government backed student loans were just loans, that is they have to be payed back the same as any other loan. How are they free exactly? What makes them different from private loans? Student loans are actual worse than normal loans because they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. The biggest problem is that consumers don't think about they value they are getting for their money when it comes to college. I don't see how the loans being government backed or private bank backed matters.

I actually have to agree with you on this one.

[Sammich]

FUK COLLEGE...EVERYONE SHOULD DROP OUT OF SCHOOL MIDWAY THROUGH THEIR JUNIOR YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL

[C230K]

I know alot of people who go to GPC and just go to get their refund, then decide not to go any more, smh

[David88vert]

YOure comparing apples and oranges.

You realize WHY loan rates go UP right? It depends on Credit score, assets, availability to pay it back, etc. No bank wants to loan you $60-80K at 1.5% for education. its a bad investment.

Youre assuming costs wont go DOWN. YOu think the banks would keep loan rates the same if you were trying to borrow HALF the money (because tuition went down)?

The fact is everyone has the right to GO TO COLLEGE, not everyone SHOULD go to college. We subsidize people to go by guaranteeing their loans in the form of Federal loan programs. The universities have NO COMPETITION so they continue to raise prices KNOWING the FEDS are paying the bill no matter what.

The answer is YES, you should look at college like a business decision. If it costs you 16% to go to college in loan rates, youll either be serious about graduating and paying that off, or youll decide NOT to go. Either choice is better than the alternative.

Going to college is not a right. Going to the college that you want to go to is not a right.

College eduation has value beyond just getting a job. Typically, college grads get into less trouble, and become homeowers, building better communities. Look at the number of college grads in East Point, then in Johns Creek.
Investing in education may not be glamorous, but it is necessary to keep society moving forward.

As to your 16% loan rate, you obviously haven't looked at the numbers. If you had to take an $80K loan at 16% interest, and then needed 30 years to pay it back, then you would pay out $6,787,990.15 IN JUST INTEREST. You coulkd forget about having a family, owning a home, etc. If you got a job that allowed you to pay it back in 5 years only, you would still have to pay out over $168K in those 5 years, as $$88027.33 would be interest only. That's over $33,600 per year that you would have to pay back - not possible for a lot of people.

How does that affect society? Well, you wouldn't have a lot of job positions be able to be filled by Americans anymore, as they couldn't afford a US education. You can figure out who would fill those jobs - H-1B contractors with non-US education.

[Vteckidd]

FUK COLLEGE...EVERYONE SHOULD DROP OUT OF SCHOOL MIDWAY THROUGH THEIR JUNIOR YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL

thank you for that intellectual comment on the argument at hand.

Facts are FACTS and so far NO ONE has presented anything to refute those facts:
1) College Tuition SKYROCKETS in price
2) COllege enrollment is at ALL TIME HIGHS
3) Federal Loans to students EXPLODED in the last 25 years.

WHY IS TUITION RISING?

SUre colleges have to hire more staff, build more buildings, etc, but not at the rate it is charging for tuition. Do you realize that a federal loan at 1.5% for the term of the loan DOESNT EVEN KEEP UP WITH INFLATION?

[David88vert]

Tell me HOW COSTS RISE, WHEN ENROLLMENT IS AT ALL TIME HIGHS? IF MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COLLEGE NOW THAN EVER BEFORE, WHY DO RATES CONTINUE TO SKYROCKET?



Greed.

Prices will not come back down, they would only level out. It is an intangible item, and prices won't fall on education costs.

[Vteckidd]

As to your 16% loan rate, you obviously haven't looked at the numbers. If you had to take an $80K loan at 16% interest, and then needed 30 years to pay it back, then you would pay out $6,787,990.15 IN JUST INTEREST. You coulkd forget about having a family, owning a home, etc. If you got a job that allowed you to pay it back in 5 years only, you would still have to pay out over $168K in those 5 years, as $$88027.33 would be interest only. That's over $33,600 per year that you would have to pay back - not possible for a lot of people.



The loan wouldnt have to be $80,000 because COLLEGE WOULDNT COST THAT MUCH if we didnt subsidize it.

The average private loan currently carries an interest rate of 12%, which is about double what federal loans charge. Theres no way around it you are going to pay interest. The problem is you are assuming the private rates will stay static, as well as the tuition cost if we stopped subsidizing it.

Simple question:
WHat happened when we lost Fannie and Freddie almost to bankruptcy and we overregulated the banks? HOUSING PRICES FELL THROUGH THE FLOOR.

WHat makes you think anything less will happen in education?

We will instantly weed out people who DONT BELONG there, and we will instantly reduce college tuition. You wouldnt need a loan to go to school it would be extremely cheap

[Vteckidd]

Greed.

Prices will not come back down, they would only level out. It is an intangible item, and prices won't fall on education costs.

Greed only works if you can continue getting money in. If FEDS STOP SUBSIDIZING LOANS, UNIVERSITIES LOSE THE MONEY. PERIOD.

They will have no choice but to cut costs when enrollment drops 20-30-40-50% across the board.

[Vteckidd]

I got it , so we should just keep loaning out money to anyone and let tuition rise 14-20% every 5 years. Solves everything!

:thumbup:

[.blank cd]

ABOLISH FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS. Heres why:

Im going back to school this fall to finish up my degree. When shopping (yes shopping) for which college to attend, i found the following:
Chattahoochee Technical College- $75 PER CREDIT HOUR
Georgia State University- $385 PER CREDIT HOUR

BOth are accredited universities, both are part of the Georgia Collegiate "system" and both allow credits to transfer between college. Why is there a huge increase in price between GSU and CTU? Figure that most Freshman and Sophmores will take the 10-12 remedial classes that EVERY freshman will have to take:

ENglish 101/102
College Math
Science/Biology
HIstory/Geography
Elective

Why would you even THINK about attending GSU for your first 2 years????? WHY WOULD YOU PAY ALMOST 5 times the cost for the SAME education? It is mind boggling to me why the cost is so high.I'm In the same boat. I'm going back once my fiancé gets a stable income. Fucking tuition is brutal.

[TIGERJC]

More importantly it brings down the value of a degree when everybody has some type of a degree, especially those BS Degrees (Arts, political science,etc). 95% of the jobs out there you do not need a degree to do and at one time people use to get vocational education in High School.

[.blank cd]

More importantly it brings down the value of a degree when everybody has some type of a degree, especially those BS Degrees (Arts, political science,etc). 95% of the jobs out there you do not need a degree to do and at one time people use to get vocational education in High School.

Liberal Arts are BS degrees? LMAO.

I hope you mean Bachelor of Science and not bullshit.

[TIGERJC]

Liberal Arts are BS degrees? LMAO.

I hope you mean Bachelor of Science and not bullshit.
Degrees you get at the Art Institute.

I meant Bullshit by the way.

[CSquared]

I owe 20k in student loans :D

[.blank cd]

Degrees you get at the Art Institute.

I meant Bullshit by the way.

All those people are five star restaurant owners, graphic designers for major advertising firms, and film makers and movie producers.

You're right. All bullshit degrees. ::SMH::

[David88vert]

Housing is a tangible item. Banks were too big to fail and got bailed out - but that didn't help people get into houses.
Education is not a tangible item. Universities will be too big to fail and would get a bailout - and since there is no additional cost, they would keep prices high, and keep milking the taxpayers for more money - all while cutting the teachers pay, and benefits to students.

There is no easy answer while we have our current government.

[David88vert]

All those people are five star restaurant owners, graphic designers for major advertising firms, and film makers and movie producers.

You're right. All bullshit degrees. ::SMH::

I have to agree with you here. The arts are part of our society, and always have been.

[TIGERJC]

All those people are five star restaurant owners, graphic designers for major advertising firms, and film makers and movie producers.

You're right. All bullshit degrees. ::SMH::

I bet you inspire all the inner city kids that they could become rap stars and professional athletes.

I am not saying the arts don't have a place in the higher education, but there are greater number of people that go after those easier to obtain degrees than a real degree that will actually help them in the business world. I know way too many people that have art degrees and took a job where their degree has no use other than telling people you graduated from college. I think if we're going to subsidize higher education, then it needs to be for Engineering, medicine, Business, Law, Science and others areas that are similar. I do support pulling Federal dollars from colleges or colleges being submitted to tough regulation since they rely heavily on federal dollars.

[.blank cd]

I bet you inspire all the inner city kids that they could become rap stars and professional athletes.

Well, does it work? Are you a rap star or an athlete yet? If not try harder, I know it's in you

[TIGERJC]

You would be the worst Career counselor ever

[.blank cd]

You would be the worst Career counselor ever

I guess it's a damn good thing I'm not a career counselor then huh?

[RandomGuy]

More importantly it brings down the value of a degree when everybody has some type of a degree, especially those BS Degrees (Arts, political science,etc). 95% of the jobs out there you do not need a degree to do and at one time people use to get vocational education in High School.
I agree completely!

Interesting vid about the education system as we know it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

But yeah, prices have been going up every year. GSU has gotten expensive! Georgia Tech is now cheaper than Georgia State.

[EmminoDaGreat]

I went to CT for 2 years, only paid for books

[Vteckidd]

I dont want to start saying what degrees are BETTER than others. Because we do need people in the Arts, humanities, etc. The problem you are looking at is the COST of both degrees and the cost to the person to pay back the loan to get that degree.

Considering that tuition is static per student:
Mechanical/Electrical Engineers graduate with an average of $40,000 in debt
Arts/Education graduate with an average of $40,000 in debt

Most Engineers i know get out of college job offers in the $50-60k range. Most TEACHERS i know get offers in the $28-35k range. Both graduate with the same debt for the same 4 year college, but their income is vastly different.

SO in essence 1 degree is worth "more" as a means of income generation.

[Vteckidd]

Housing is a tangible item. Banks were too big to fail and got bailed out - but that didn't help people get into houses.
It will, in time, if we didnt bail banks out, people would be buying houses at a exasperating rate because they are finally priced where they should be. Its not an over night fix. Prices come down , then you need a few years for things to reset.


Education is not a tangible item. Universities will be too big to fail and would get a bailout - and since there is no additional cost, they would keep prices high, and keep milking the taxpayers for more money - all while cutting the teachers pay, and benefits to students.


Obviously im not arguing for bailouts. Bailouts prolong the existing problem and dont let it fix itself. It props up bad standards.

Tell you what, replace EDUCATION, with FERRARI.

If the govt came out tomorrow and offered everyone a low low interest rate of 1% for $150,000 to go towards a Ferrari because everyone DESERVES to drive a ferrari, and you dont have to pay the loan back for 5 years, and you can structure the loan for 20 years.

Do you think the prices of Ferraris would go up or down?

[bu villain]

The difference between a college degree and a ferrari is that it is in the country's interest for there to be more college educated people. Our country is quickly moving to a service based economy where the jobs are highly skilled. There is no shortage of jobs right now, there is a shortage of qualified people to do those jobs however. Making it harder to afford college will severely damage our economy in the long term.

There are many reasons education costs are rising so fast:
- People think the more expensive a college is, the better the education it must provide.
- Student mentality is often that ANY cost is worth it.
- A college diploma is a weed out tool used by many employers even when it doesnt really matter
- A college degree is a status symbol and work that does not require one is looked down upon
- There are relatively few alternatives that are considered to lead to a secure, successful life
- Loans are easy to get

So you are right that easy access to loans is part of the reason costs have risen so much but in my opinion, addressing the others are much more worthy of our time and energy.

[BanginJimmy]

ABOLISH FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS.

I really hope you mean federal student loan guarantees, not the actual loans.

Other than that I pretty much agree.

Another thing you cannot forget, under Obamacare, the US govt and I believe the state of Idaho are the only 2 bodies that can fund a student loan. Anyone else offering a student loan is just a reseller or servicer.



I'm sorry I don't understand. I thought government backed student loans were just loans, that is they have to be payed back the same as any other loan. How are they free exactly? What makes them different from private loans? Student loans are actual worse than normal loans because they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. The biggest problem is that consumers don't think about they value they are getting for their money when it comes to college. I don't see how the loans being government backed or private bank backed matters.

Student loans are backed 100% by the govt and issued 100% by the govt. Because of the lack of competition in the market or the need to make a profit, interest rates and acceptance standards are unnaturally low.



More importantly it brings down the value of a degree when everybody has some type of a degree, especially those BS Degrees (Arts, political science,etc). 95% of the jobs out there you do not need a degree to do and at one time people use to get vocational education in High School.

You couldnt be more right on this. Jobs that 10 years ago did not require any type of degree are now requiring one. Something to think about though. How much of that is the easy availability of college loans, and how much of that is the terrible state of our public school system? At the very best, I think it is a 50/50 proposition. American public high schools simply do not give the students the basic knowledge to function in the workplace. Add to that, the uncommon nature of common sense and its ahrd to find fault in business' approach and require a degree for most office jobs, even entry level ones.

[David88vert]

The difference between a college degree and a ferrari is that it is in the country's interest for there to be more college educated people. Our country is quickly moving to a service based economy where the jobs are highly skilled. There is no shortage of jobs right now, there is a shortage of qualified people to do those jobs however. Making it harder to afford college will severely damage our economy in the long term.

There are many reasons education costs are rising so fast:
- People think the more expensive a college is, the better the education it must provide.
- Student mentality is often that ANY cost is worth it.
- A college diploma is a weed out tool used by many employers even when it doesnt really matter
- A college degree is a status symbol and work that does not require one is looked down upon
- There are relatively few alternatives that are considered to lead to a secure, successful life
- Loans are easy to get

So you are right that easy access to loans is part of the reason costs have risen so much but in my opinion, addressing the others are much more worthy of our time and energy.

I agree.

[David88vert]

I bet you inspire all the inner city kids that they could become rap stars and professional athletes.

I am not saying the arts don't have a place in the higher education, but there are greater number of people that go after those easier to obtain degrees than a real degree that will actually help them in the business world. I know way too many people that have art degrees and took a job where their degree has no use other than telling people you graduated from college. I think if we're going to subsidize higher education, then it needs to be for Engineering, medicine, Business, Law, Science and others areas that are similar. I do support pulling Federal dollars from colleges or colleges being submitted to tough regulation since they rely heavily on federal dollars.



I work with quite a few people with degrees in art fields that make over $100K/yr - and their degree is actually being used daily to improve a product. I'd say it was worthwhile.
From working with many highly educated individuals, I have seen that many people do not come out of high school with one critical ability - the ability to learn. College tends to teach the ability to study and learn better than the average high school, and this is the skill used most in the real world. If you cannot learn and adapt, you are unlikely to survive in the corporate world.

[bu villain]

Student loans are backed 100% by the govt and issued 100% by the govt. Because of the lack of competition in the market or the need to make a profit, interest rates and acceptance standards are unnaturally low.

Do you think low interest rates and easy acceptance standards are a bad thing for student loans? I want a more educated populace so I think it's a good thing. Worthy of a loan in a bank's eyes doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how successful of a student they will be. Also, interest rates are historically low right now but it wasn't that long ago that educational interest rates around 6-9% were common. In the long term, it's likely revenue positive but I'll accept evidence to the contrary.

[BanginJimmy]

Do you think low interest rates and easy acceptance standards are a bad thing for student loans?

Not bad for student loans, bad for students who are watching tuition rates at an unsustainable rate.




I want a more educated populace so I think it's a good thing.

In a way yes, and in a way no. Our society is moving away from blue color work so a more educated society is a positive. The downside is that we are losing our skilled blue color work force. As that force shrinks, it sends more manufacturing, and increasingly complex manufacturing, overseas. Losing those manufacturing jobs will also reduce the number of white collar jobs at those particular firms.



Worthy of a loan in a bank's eyes doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how successful of a student they will be.

I disagree. People that are responsible with their money tend to be responsible in all areas of their life and those that are irresponsible with money tend to be irresponsible in other areas also.



Also, interest rates are historically low right now but it wasn't that long ago that educational interest rates around 6-9% were common. In the long term, it's likely revenue positive but I'll accept evidence to the contrary.


Historicly they are low rates and as a result, you have record high debt associated with it and record increases in tuition and fees to push that credit further.

Because studet loans cannot be forgiven in bankruptcy I would imagine that it is profitable overall. here is an article about defaults though. Nationwide, nearly 9% of all student loans went into default within 2 years of repayment in 2009.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html

[thesammy]

I'm just glad I finished before HOPE was actually hard to keep. Lol

[bu villain]

Not bad for student loans, bad for students who are watching tuition rates at an unsustainable rate.

Sure but as I said before, I believe there are many other factors we should address to lower tuition rates before we attack student loans which also bring a lot of benefits.


In a way yes, and in a way no. Our society is moving away from blue color work so a more educated society is a positive. The downside is that we are losing our skilled blue color work force. As that force shrinks, it sends more manufacturing, and increasingly complex manufacturing, overseas. Losing those manufacturing jobs will also reduce the number of white collar jobs at those particular firms.

I agree except that I don't think getting rid of student loan programs will help with that. What we really need is more vocational type programs. Manufacturing jobs are more skilled now than ever so making it harder for students to get higher education will not solve that problem. I think Germany is a good albeit imperfect model where they have two educational paths rather than the more one size fits all system we have.


I disagree. People that are responsible with their money tend to be responsible in all areas of their life and those that are irresponsible with money tend to be irresponsible in other areas also.

I think what you are forgetting is that these are very young adults (some of them not even technically adult yet). Many of them don't have a credit history at all so they will be routinely denied even if they are very responsible. I think it is unrealistic to expect 17 and 18 year olds to have the kind of credit a bank would look for when lending out tens of thousands of dollars.




Historicly they are low rates and as a result, you have record high debt associated with it and record increases in tuition and fees to push that credit further.

Because studet loans cannot be forgiven in bankruptcy I would imagine that it is profitable overall. here is an article about defaults though. Nationwide, nearly 9% of all student loans went into default within 2 years of repayment in 2009.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html


Sounds like we agree that things need to change, we just disagree that the availability of student loans is the best way to change that.

[BanginJimmy]

Sure but as I said before, I believe there are many other factors we should address to lower tuition rates before we attack student loans which also bring a lot of benefits.

What attack on student loans?




I agree except that I don't think getting rid of student loan programs will help with that. What we really need is more vocational type programs. Manufacturing jobs are more skilled now than ever so making it harder for students to get higher education will not solve that problem. I think Germany is a good albeit imperfect model where they have two educational paths rather than the more one size fits all system we have.

When did I say we should get rid of student loan programs?




I think what you are forgetting is that these are very young adults (some of them not even technically adult yet). Many of them don't have a credit history at all so they will be routinely denied even if they are very responsible. I think it is unrealistic to expect 17 and 18 year olds to have the kind of credit a bank would look for when lending out tens of thousands of dollars.

You are assuming that the industry would use the same standards that they use for a personal loan. I think the industry would simply create a new approval system in which GPA takes a primary role in the process.





Sounds like we agree that things need to change, we just disagree that the availability of student loans is the best way to change that.

We do agree that a change needs to be made. I just think approving anyone that applies is not the proper approach. At the very least, these loans needs to be tied to GPA.

[David88vert]

You are assuming that the industry would use the same standards that they use for a personal loan. I think the industry would simply create a new approval system in which GPA takes a primary role in the process.

We do agree that a change needs to be made. I just think approving anyone that applies is not the proper approach. At the very least, these loans needs to be tied to GPA.

Some people in our society would claim that is racist. I suspect one of them will be along shortly into this thread.

[bu villain]

What attack on student loans?
...
When did I say we should get rid of student loan programs?

I wasn't responding only to your position, I was clarifying mine. The OP stated that we should get rid of the federal student loan program. Also to clarify, I wasn't using "attack" to imply maliciousness.


You are assuming that the industry would use the same standards that they use for a personal loan. I think the industry would simply create a new approval system in which GPA takes a primary role in the process....

We do agree that a change needs to be made. I just think approving anyone that applies is not the proper approach. At the very least, these loans needs to be tied to GPA.

Possibly, but at this point it's only a guess. Banks loan money in order to make money. Is there data that shows students with good GPAs in high school are more likely to pay back student loans? The big concern I would still have is that higher education is one of the most powerful paths to having a successful career. I wouldn't want to limit someone's ability to achieve that because they were irresponsible or unmotivated in high school and their parents were too poor. I know too many smart and successful people now who weren't very good high school students.

[BanginJimmy]

Possibly, but at this point it's only a guess. Banks loan money in order to make money. Is there data that shows students with good GPAs in high school are more likely to pay back student loans? The big concern I would still have is that higher education is one of the most powerful paths to having a successful career. I wouldn't want to limit someone's ability to achieve that because they were irresponsible or unmotivated in high school and their parents were too poor. I know too many smart and successful people now who weren't very good high school students.


Just like a mortgage is scored by a lender completely different than a car loan, I cant help but think the same would be true for students. History dictates that new markets would lead to new criteria to lend.

Not so much with higher GPA, but higher GPA students tend to move into higher income majors like engineering while lower GPA students tend to focus on lower income majors such as teaching. It stands to reason that higher paying jobs after school would lead to a higher rate of repayment.

If you didnt take care of business in HS, then maybe you should have to prove yourself before someone gives you money. There is no reason to believe that just because you were a C average student in HS, you will immediately buckle down and succeed in college. I would imagine, I couldnt find any real data to support it, that higher GPA HS students graduate college at a higher rate then low GPA HS students.

This was the best I could really find in my quick search.

High School Grades Better Predictors of College Graduation | FairTest (http://www.fairtest.org/high-school-grades-better-predictors-college-gradu)


“High school grades are a far better incremental predictor of graduation rates than are standard SAT/ACT test scores”;

[bu villain]

I don't disagree although probably a better method would involve basing how big of a loan they would get on their field of study. A straight A high school student majoring in public policy probably doesn't need 100k in loans while a B+ med student might. Anyways, I think it comes down to who you want to be the major arbiter of who goes to college, the banks or the students?

[blaknoize]

Ron Paul?

Oh wait, nevermind, he's an idiot and so am I. But pictured below is my impossible school loan of only $13,400 (I think) which I've been paying on for 1 full yr. at 10.75% and paying twice the amount due.

I was a Deans List student who was forced to drop out and now that I'm a true independent student I dont want to attend because the cost is so high and ONLY because the cost is so high. I would love to learn something new, but for what? To have a debt hang around me my entire life?

[BanginJimmy]

Ron Paul?

Oh wait, nevermind, he's an idiot and so am I. But pictured below is my impossible school loan of only $13,400 (I think) which I've been paying on for 1 full yr. at 10.75% and paying twice the amount due.

I was a Deans List student who was forced to drop out and now that I'm a true independent student I dont want to attend because the cost is so high and ONLY because the cost is so high. I would love to learn something new, but for what? To have a debt hang around me my entire life?


So what is your solution to the problem?

Did you not know when you took the money that they were expecting you to pay it back? You borrowed the money, now you have to repay it.

[David88vert]

So what is your solution to the problem?

Did you not know when you took the money that they were expecting you to pay it back? You borrowed the money, now you have to repay it.

I believe that his point is that the cost vs benefit is too high. 4 yrs @ $13K is $52K of debt, then with 10% interest, you are looking at 20-30 yrs to get that paid off if you only get a normal job that pays under $50k/yr. That hampers people from moving forward in life with homes and families. The overall cost of education compared to the salary of the jobs that you can get with that education has skyrocketed.

[BanginJimmy]

I believe that his point is that the cost vs benefit is too high. 4 yrs @ $13K is $52K of debt, then with 10% interest, you are looking at 20-30 yrs to get that paid off if you only get a normal job that pays under $50k/yr. That hampers people from moving forward in life with homes and families. The overall cost of education compared to the salary of the jobs that you can get with that education has skyrocketed.

We are right back to whats the solution?

IMO the kidd has it right. Stricter lending standards will shrink the pool of college students. Less students will cause institutions to compete for students. One of the beat ways to get an edge will be to lower tuition, or at least slow down the rise.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[David88vert]

But that creates a different issue. Corporations will have more jobs that require a college education to fill, then they will complain that they can't find enough qualified Americans to fill them, and will have the number of H1's raised - and you will have just outsourced still more American jobs. It happens all the time - I see it personally.

Less Americans graduating from college is not a solution.

[Vteckidd]

BOOM

Peter Schiff: Why the Government Should Not Be in the Student Loan Business - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g3hc6LoAlu0)

[nelson9995]

"Let's make it harder for others to better themselves"

That's what I see from some of you guys. Funny thing is, is the same ones that agree with CEO's exploiting their workers. lol

[Vteckidd]

CEO don't exploit anyone . No one forces you to work for anyone

[ahabion]

"Let's make it harder for others to better themselves"

That's what I see from some of you guys. Funny thing is, is the same ones that agree with CEO's exploiting their workers. lol

Really? The Olympians who won gold didn't get their medals from Easy Street, ya know? Life is hard and those who can push through the hard get gold medals. It's a big fat ass lie that people get to where they're at on easy.

To the OP, I agree completely that government should get out of the student loans. The easier it is for people to qualify for student loans (not to mention low credit qualifying loans like federal loan programs) the easier it is for colleges, universities, and technical schools to jack up their rates. Think about it, it's simple economics. If you stop buying their product (university's programs) then they have to lower their cost of said product to compete. But the higher demand and easy access means schools can jack up their rates as they need to to get their money (from you or your gov't guaranteed loan) because to them, it's free money.

Let's not forget what major political class has a bear hug over the educational system (D E M O C R A T S). Got to love the system and they're selling so many huge lies the people believe it to be truth.

Do I believe the education is important or a degree is important? Yes, it is important and many people get big payoffs leaving colleges/universities/tech schools working in their field. But reality is also that there is a great majority of students who don't take it seriously and think 'good enough' is good enough and others who squander their future opportunity for the present day joy.

The biggest mistake, imo, is that too many people think that going to college is guaranteed a job when they come out, which we all know is completely bogus. Nothing guarantees you a job. If you want to be rich then do what rich people do. If you want to be a dentist or doctor, do what dentists and doctors do. If you want to be a pro-athlete, then do what pro-athletes do.

Do the homework of the field you want to get into before you get into it. Find out if that field is hot and what skills are going to be necessary to perform it. What places are hiring within that field? What is the pay scale of that job realistically where you live? Can you connect with others within the field: personally, thru social media, job boards, friends, etc.? Find a mentor or follow people within the field to learn what they're learning. Education is important but not as important as Learning, Skills, and Work Ethic.

[RL...]

VTECKID is probably right about this stuff, but I think the bigger problem, the real problem is that why the fuck are colleges that are nonprofit such as GSU allowed to charge so much? They should be mandated to charge just enough to operate the school and such. The thing is education is what individuals and this country needs to keep moving forward and colleges should not be allowed to take advantage of that.

[RandomGuy]

Interesting articles I came across:

OpEdNews - Article: How The American University was Killed, in Five Easy Steps (http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-The-American-Universit-by-Debra-Leigh-Scott-120819-373.html)

OpEdNews - Article: Corporatism is Killing America (http://www.opednews.com/articles/Corporatism-is-Killing-Ame-by-Rob-Kall-120819-348.html)

[Vteckidd]

I just paid my tuition for this year,
13 credit hours- $1136
Books for 4 classes-$627

My BOOKS cost me more than HALF my tuition? That is retarded

[RandomGuy]

I just paid my tuition for this year,
13 credit hours- $1136
Books for 4 classes-$627

My BOOKS cost me more than HALF my tuition? That is retarded
check out AbeBooks Official Site - New & Used Books, New & Used Textbooks, Rare & Out of Print Books (http://www.abebooks.com) basically chinese-reprints of pretty much any book just type the ISBN. They're all paperback and all about 40 bux shipped. I rarely come across a book they don't have.

[Vteckidd]

you da man