Sinfix_15
07-16-2012, 11:37 AM
discuss what oil you use and why you use it. Going to provide some information that led me to deciding what oils i use in hopes of assisting everyone in making their cars last as long as possible.
One thing you may not know.......
Just because it says synthetic on the bottle, doesnt mean it actually is!
It wouldnt be America if large corporations couldnt lie directly to your face would it? I know Castrol is a very popular oil and rightfully so, there's no denying that it's pretty good stuff, BUT.... Castrol actually does not offer a single synthetic oil in their entire line up of oils offered, regardless of what the bottle says. At one time Mobil decided to take other oil companies to court and sue them for even calling their oils synthetic. Mobil not only wanted to be the only "synthetic" oil on the shelf, but obviously it's good for business to make your competition look like liars. After a court case between Mobil and Castrol in which Mobil was suing Castrol for god only knows how much money..... because Castrol used 100% crude oil (dinosaur juice) in their "synthetic" oil, the judges decides that Castrol was allowed to call their modified crude oil synthetic and set the precedent for other oils to also start using crude oil as a base for their "synthetic" since it was much cheaper than actually making real synthetic oil. So youre saying the legal system didnt "stick it to" an oil giant? inorite...LOL
Only 3 companies made in the united states actually offer real synthetic oil.
Every oil sitting on the shelf is selling you refined 100% crude oil if theyre not labeled Mobil-1, Amsoil, or Royal Purple. Every other oil brand in the united states uses crude oil as a starting point for their labeled synthetic since the result of the legal case between Mobil and Castrol.
Does it matter?
well, no, not really. Synthetic is just the process of making the oil, it doesnt necessarily mean that the end result isnt a good product. However, the PAOs used in real synthetic do last significantly longer than anything made with a crude base. For short intervals, you might not notice the difference. If you want to insure that your oil doesnt break down before you change it, synthetic lasts longer and breaks down slower. but....before the oil breaks down, conventional may be just as good and sometimes better. You've probably already figured that out by now since im sure a lot of you have a variety of different oils you would swear by. Crude oil is exactly what it implies, crude. The molecules are not perfect and have different characteristics. Comparing synthetic to crude oil would be about the same as comparing a soup to a bisk. Soup has chunks of potatoes and meat in it and a bisk is smooth and creamy. If you threw both bowls at a wall, the smooth and creamy bisk would stick to the wall evenly and some of the soup would stick and some wouldnt. It works about the same way with the molecules in oil. Synthetic oil is man made to be perfectly engineered and have even properties. The "synthetic crude oil" that everyone else sales is oil that was refined to be the same way. Essentially, they put the soup in a blender and called it a bisk.
What does matter then?
in my opinion..... cheating. Molybdenum disulfide is a hard metal that many other forms of lubricant like grease use because the molecules in "Moly" attract to metal and fill in the pores in the metals surface. So rather than having an oil film between your metal parts, moly actually forms a metal film over them filling in the pores of the existing metal. When oil companies first started using this method, they had problems with the moly sinking to the bottom of the bottle and obviously also sinking to the bottom of the engine, they eventually modified the moly so that it stays suspended in the oil and doesnt get filtered out. Know how you hear those rumors about "i used RP and my engine blew up" but nobody is around to confirm them, well... maybe that story was true, maybe it wasnt.... in a civil suit, obviously RP would put a nondisclosure clause in. That's why you wouldnt see anybody talking about it. Yes, this sounds exactly like what it is. The moly film can build up. The moly film can get thick enough to interfere with a motorcycles wet clutch. So, use your own judgement if you think it's a fantastic idea for your VTEC engine or if it's good for your lifters. This is the #1 factor that separates "motorcycle oil" and "car oil", the moly has too many negative side effects to be ran in the tolerances of high performance motorcycle engines.
Royal Purple
Has more Molybdenum disulfide in it than any other oil on the shelf. RP's detractors say that this is the only reason for their success. RP is packed with detergent and packed with Moly. RP tests nearly flawlessly in bearing tests. RP is packed with detergents and moly. Most people who use RP in a brand new engine swear by it. RP keeps the engine polished and with fresh new metals, the moly fills the pores of the metal evenly. You can use your own judgment on how well this may or may not work with a high mileage engine with different wear characteristics.
Semi trucks are on the road 24/7 and go for millions of miles, what do they use?
semis, much like motorcycles, have already determined across the board that moly is a "nono" for their engines. Using moly in oil is a race car trick that found its way into your street vehicle. Someone like John Force wouldnt care about moly build up in his engine since his engine is going to get rebuilt after each race. The moly lubricates better than any oil substance in existence, but as mentioned before, negative side effects come with it. Semis are on the road for far to long to run oils with moly in them. The semi/tractor specific oils are actually extremely good for this exact reason. Semi/tractor oil is made with 2 things in mind.... it needs to stand up to heat and not sheer down, since semis are constantly running and it needs to not contain moly, since the engine's lifespan is far too long to constantly be adding metal to your engine. You're probably thinking, "that sounds great, why cant i use it in my car?" you can.... Shell oil "rotella" and other oils aimed at tractors actually work really well in cars. I use rotella t6 in my motorcycles and a lot of my cars. If you do some research, you will see there is a cult following for rotella "nonmotorcycle" t6 oil in motorcycles.... yes... the oil they sell at the gas station with pictures of farm equipment on it. It's in my motorcycle right now.
So in your (expert) opinion, what oil is best?
I think it varies per application, but there are a few oils you can stand by. I tend to avoid oils with Moly and in engines i care about, i prefer to stay with synthetics. Those 2 factors narrow the selection a good bit. You should also factor in price. If you're someone who religiously changes your oil every 2500 miles, then synthetic is probably going to be a waste of money for you. Pre-breakdown, your conventional oil might actually be just as good if not better than synthetic. For people who go long intervals, you might not want to chance the oil breaking down before you change it. Mobil synthetic vs non synthetic tests almost exactly the same in bearing tests. Obviously your oil is more complex than a bearing, but you get the point. Judging lubrication vs lubrication, theyre relatively equal. I'll answer this question in a variety of ways.
I change my oil every 2500 miles so price is a big factor for me
Valvoline Durablend performs better than nearly every oil sitting on the shelf in wear tests. Durablend tests nearly as good as the "pricey" oils. It out performs mobil synthetic, Redline, Motul, and castrol in 4ball wear tests. Does that mean it's clearly "better"? no, a 4ball test is not an engine, but this is a good sign that valvoline performs above it's price range.
I change my oil every 5000 or so miles or whenever i get to it, but i still factor price
Since longevity is becoming an issue, you should start looking into synthetics. I would recommend using Rotella or Mobil. Rotella is cheap and readily available, its made for the "long haul".... literally..... and it doesnt contain Moly or harsh detergent.
I just want the best, dont care about price.
Amsoil.
Let the debate begin...... for those of you willing to read something longer than a text message anyways.
One thing you may not know.......
Just because it says synthetic on the bottle, doesnt mean it actually is!
It wouldnt be America if large corporations couldnt lie directly to your face would it? I know Castrol is a very popular oil and rightfully so, there's no denying that it's pretty good stuff, BUT.... Castrol actually does not offer a single synthetic oil in their entire line up of oils offered, regardless of what the bottle says. At one time Mobil decided to take other oil companies to court and sue them for even calling their oils synthetic. Mobil not only wanted to be the only "synthetic" oil on the shelf, but obviously it's good for business to make your competition look like liars. After a court case between Mobil and Castrol in which Mobil was suing Castrol for god only knows how much money..... because Castrol used 100% crude oil (dinosaur juice) in their "synthetic" oil, the judges decides that Castrol was allowed to call their modified crude oil synthetic and set the precedent for other oils to also start using crude oil as a base for their "synthetic" since it was much cheaper than actually making real synthetic oil. So youre saying the legal system didnt "stick it to" an oil giant? inorite...LOL
Only 3 companies made in the united states actually offer real synthetic oil.
Every oil sitting on the shelf is selling you refined 100% crude oil if theyre not labeled Mobil-1, Amsoil, or Royal Purple. Every other oil brand in the united states uses crude oil as a starting point for their labeled synthetic since the result of the legal case between Mobil and Castrol.
Does it matter?
well, no, not really. Synthetic is just the process of making the oil, it doesnt necessarily mean that the end result isnt a good product. However, the PAOs used in real synthetic do last significantly longer than anything made with a crude base. For short intervals, you might not notice the difference. If you want to insure that your oil doesnt break down before you change it, synthetic lasts longer and breaks down slower. but....before the oil breaks down, conventional may be just as good and sometimes better. You've probably already figured that out by now since im sure a lot of you have a variety of different oils you would swear by. Crude oil is exactly what it implies, crude. The molecules are not perfect and have different characteristics. Comparing synthetic to crude oil would be about the same as comparing a soup to a bisk. Soup has chunks of potatoes and meat in it and a bisk is smooth and creamy. If you threw both bowls at a wall, the smooth and creamy bisk would stick to the wall evenly and some of the soup would stick and some wouldnt. It works about the same way with the molecules in oil. Synthetic oil is man made to be perfectly engineered and have even properties. The "synthetic crude oil" that everyone else sales is oil that was refined to be the same way. Essentially, they put the soup in a blender and called it a bisk.
What does matter then?
in my opinion..... cheating. Molybdenum disulfide is a hard metal that many other forms of lubricant like grease use because the molecules in "Moly" attract to metal and fill in the pores in the metals surface. So rather than having an oil film between your metal parts, moly actually forms a metal film over them filling in the pores of the existing metal. When oil companies first started using this method, they had problems with the moly sinking to the bottom of the bottle and obviously also sinking to the bottom of the engine, they eventually modified the moly so that it stays suspended in the oil and doesnt get filtered out. Know how you hear those rumors about "i used RP and my engine blew up" but nobody is around to confirm them, well... maybe that story was true, maybe it wasnt.... in a civil suit, obviously RP would put a nondisclosure clause in. That's why you wouldnt see anybody talking about it. Yes, this sounds exactly like what it is. The moly film can build up. The moly film can get thick enough to interfere with a motorcycles wet clutch. So, use your own judgement if you think it's a fantastic idea for your VTEC engine or if it's good for your lifters. This is the #1 factor that separates "motorcycle oil" and "car oil", the moly has too many negative side effects to be ran in the tolerances of high performance motorcycle engines.
Royal Purple
Has more Molybdenum disulfide in it than any other oil on the shelf. RP's detractors say that this is the only reason for their success. RP is packed with detergent and packed with Moly. RP tests nearly flawlessly in bearing tests. RP is packed with detergents and moly. Most people who use RP in a brand new engine swear by it. RP keeps the engine polished and with fresh new metals, the moly fills the pores of the metal evenly. You can use your own judgment on how well this may or may not work with a high mileage engine with different wear characteristics.
Semi trucks are on the road 24/7 and go for millions of miles, what do they use?
semis, much like motorcycles, have already determined across the board that moly is a "nono" for their engines. Using moly in oil is a race car trick that found its way into your street vehicle. Someone like John Force wouldnt care about moly build up in his engine since his engine is going to get rebuilt after each race. The moly lubricates better than any oil substance in existence, but as mentioned before, negative side effects come with it. Semis are on the road for far to long to run oils with moly in them. The semi/tractor specific oils are actually extremely good for this exact reason. Semi/tractor oil is made with 2 things in mind.... it needs to stand up to heat and not sheer down, since semis are constantly running and it needs to not contain moly, since the engine's lifespan is far too long to constantly be adding metal to your engine. You're probably thinking, "that sounds great, why cant i use it in my car?" you can.... Shell oil "rotella" and other oils aimed at tractors actually work really well in cars. I use rotella t6 in my motorcycles and a lot of my cars. If you do some research, you will see there is a cult following for rotella "nonmotorcycle" t6 oil in motorcycles.... yes... the oil they sell at the gas station with pictures of farm equipment on it. It's in my motorcycle right now.
So in your (expert) opinion, what oil is best?
I think it varies per application, but there are a few oils you can stand by. I tend to avoid oils with Moly and in engines i care about, i prefer to stay with synthetics. Those 2 factors narrow the selection a good bit. You should also factor in price. If you're someone who religiously changes your oil every 2500 miles, then synthetic is probably going to be a waste of money for you. Pre-breakdown, your conventional oil might actually be just as good if not better than synthetic. For people who go long intervals, you might not want to chance the oil breaking down before you change it. Mobil synthetic vs non synthetic tests almost exactly the same in bearing tests. Obviously your oil is more complex than a bearing, but you get the point. Judging lubrication vs lubrication, theyre relatively equal. I'll answer this question in a variety of ways.
I change my oil every 2500 miles so price is a big factor for me
Valvoline Durablend performs better than nearly every oil sitting on the shelf in wear tests. Durablend tests nearly as good as the "pricey" oils. It out performs mobil synthetic, Redline, Motul, and castrol in 4ball wear tests. Does that mean it's clearly "better"? no, a 4ball test is not an engine, but this is a good sign that valvoline performs above it's price range.
I change my oil every 5000 or so miles or whenever i get to it, but i still factor price
Since longevity is becoming an issue, you should start looking into synthetics. I would recommend using Rotella or Mobil. Rotella is cheap and readily available, its made for the "long haul".... literally..... and it doesnt contain Moly or harsh detergent.
I just want the best, dont care about price.
Amsoil.
Let the debate begin...... for those of you willing to read something longer than a text message anyways.