Romney out of touch?

[geoff]

I haven't really kept up with politics much due to the fact that it has become way too political. But I have seen all this fuss and low balling in negative ads about Romney being too rich and out of touch with the middle class. The liberals are calling him to turn over tax returns, to ask how he makes his money, to ask why he has off shore accounts and why he takes advantage of tax loops. My question is this, who the hell cares and why is he demonized for being rich? To me honestly it's not a big deal. The man worked and made money and tried to avoid as much income tax as he could, much like any working class American. Do any of you here see this as an issue that should keep him from winning the election?

[1civic]

And this is why america has went to shit!!

tax me the same % as the next man!!

[geoff]

What do you mean?

[1civic]

What do you mean?

I don't agree with all the loop holes..

example: If I pay 20% of 50k a yr then you should pay 20% of your 100K.. Point blank, no over sea's accounts, non taxed bull..

Make it equal for all.. that is my 2 cents!


Little off topic, sry.. my daily vent!

[1civic]

But really tho, do you not see where he would take this? He's worth how much, 255 million?... bahahahaha, and you think he would do anything for the middle class, or even the poor? What is running the country like a business going to do for him, that's the real question?

Also where does he invest his money? and how does that help us here?

I'll pass on Romney!

[BanginJimmy]

I don't agree with all the loop holes..

example: If I pay 20% of 50k a yr then you should pay 20% of your 100K.. Point blank, no over sea's accounts, non taxed bull..

Make it equal for all.. that is my 2 cents!


Little off topic, sry.. my daily vent!


You might want to take a better look at your tax returns unless you dont itemize. The vast majority of Americans who actually do pay taxes pay less than 12% if you itemize.



BTW, I completely agree with you about the tax code. If I cant get the FairTax, give me a flat tax. No deductions, to credits, no loop holes, and no progressive rates. Everyone that earns an income, whether it be earned or capital gains, pays 15% off the top to the feds.




But really tho, do you not see where he would take this? He's worth how much, 255 million?... bahahahaha, and you think he would do anything for the middle class, or even the poor? What is running the country like a business going to do for him, that's the real question?

Also where does he invest his money? and how does that help us here?

I'll pass on Romney!

So you wont vote for Romney because he is rich? Obama is rich too, as is Gary Johnson, so I guess you are going to sit this one out.

What has Obama done for the middle class besides raise taxes? I dont give him credit for continuing a tax break he had no hand in passing in the first place.

The poor? They made their choices and they should live with them.

Why is it your business where he invests his money? His taxes were prepared by one of the best accounting firms in the world so unless you are smarter than they are, I will take their word for it. For your average rich guy, I have no doubt they would stretch the rules, but not for a presidential candidate. His returns will be perfect and probably over paid just to be safe.


As for sheltering money from the feds, what is more middle class than that? Every single person here that itemizes their returns does it. The one that is out of touch would be the one that never inflates a deduction.

[MachNU]

Civic your a moron. At least Romney has some experience in the world....where as Obama pulled his head out of the sand and ran for President with no valuable experience in anything.

Also I have a question for you...how many truly WEALTHY people do you know? I am not saying people who you think might be wealthy...IE make into the low six figures. I am talking people who are worth a million+, 25 million+ or even someone who is worth over 100 million+?

If you actually do know someone that fits into this category...talk to them about how they became rich and how they stay rich. You will be blown away by their answer. You will also be surprised by who they vote for. Rich people are rich for a reason, because they know how to obtain wealth and maintain wealth. If you raise the tax on the rich, nothing will change for them. You will just increase the unemployment rate.

Also, here is a suggestion for you. Go find a book called the "Millionaire Next Door," its biggest strategy from millionaires and decamillionares are to live below your means and increase your nontaxable income. It talks heavily on nontaxable income.

[geoff]

It's simole economics really...it's the "evil" rich men that give the middle class their jobs. The world is run by the super wealthy not the middle class. That's just the way the world works. Romney has the personal wealth he does by having "middle class" citizens work for him. I bet those same workers are very happy and well off. Obama has shown exactly what he can do as "CEO" of the USA...5 trillion in debt in 3 years.

[MachNU]

It's simole economics really...it's the "evil" rich men that give the middle class their jobs. The world is run by the super wealthy not the middle class. That's just the way the world works. Romney has the personal wealth he does by having "middle class" citizens work for him. I bet those same workers are very happy and well off. Obama has shown exactly what he can do as "CEO" of the USA...5 trillion in debt in 3 years.

Yep. Most of the super wealthy are self employed and no one self employed makes it too the top solo. They hire people and use the hard working people below them to build a corporation. Its the way the world works. So when you tax those wealthy and it does it up the unemployment rate. Shit rolls down hill and so do taxes. Now I do agree on a flat tax across the board, but increasing taxes on the rich is just stupid.

[geoff]

Nice to see some intelligent responses in here. It's really old hearing "have the rich pay their fair share".

[1civic]

It's simole economics really...it's the "evil" rich men that give the middle class their jobs. The world is run by the super wealthy not the middle class. That's just the way the world works. Romney has the personal wealth he does by having "middle class" citizens work for him. I bet those same workers are very happy and well off. Obama has shown exactly what he can do as "CEO" of the USA...5 trillion in debt in 3 years.

I agree, but that is the problem no one seems to care about? Do we let the rich/wealthy continue to run this country, or do we make change?

I myself could not fix the problem, but we as people can, and it would take years to fix what has happen, but greed, and wealth is not the answer,

IMO!!

[MachNU]

I agree, but that is the problem no one seems to care about? Do we let the rich/wealthy continue to run this country, or do we make change?

I myself could not fix the problem, and it would take years to fix what has happen, but greed, and wealth is not the answer, IMO!!

This blows my mind! How stupid. LOL.

How else would this nation run? Without the rich people building corporations, hiring tens of thousands of people, how would this nation survive? Who would create the jobs, who would create the possessions that people spend money on too further other business along?

Civic, here is a question for you....why dont you hire someone? Put a add on AJCJobs, Craigslist, Monster, whatever asking to hire someone.

Saw your edit for the last part...

Greed and wealth is the answer. Which, how do you call someone being successful and creating a vast wealth greedy? Is it there fault that they figured out how to become part of the 1% in the nation?

[geoff]

The middle class will never rule this country, you have lobbyists, unions, ect... The rich rule because they are the ones who invest and take risks. They provide the research and development, they provide the jobs and they pay the most in taxes. It's also the evil rich who offer u healthcare through your company and give you a retirement plan. The liberals and government won't provide for you and won't fix ur problems. You fix the economy by providing incentives for large corporations to keep work here at home. This country needs to get greedy and stingy and fix itself. No one ever got rich by throwing away money like the Obama administration has.

[1civic]

This blows my mind! How stupid. LOL.

How else would this nation run? Without the rich people building corporations, hiring tens of thousands of people, how would this nation survive? Who would create the jobs, who would create the possessions that people spend money on too further other business along?

Civic, here is a question for you....why dont you hire someone? Put a add on AJCJobs, Craigslist, Monster, whatever asking to hire someone.

Saw your edit for the last part...

Greed and wealth is the answer. Which, how do you call someone being successful and creating a vast wealth greedy? Is it there fault that they figured out how to become part of the 1% in the nation?

I would have to type for hours trying to get my point across, but I will try to make it short..

1. I don't think wealth is the answer, nor do I agree with the way the corporations are run!

BUT

2. I do see a business being owned/run by the workers!


America IMO has lost grasp of the simple concept of living, do we really need all this money? Even then, you say the rich create jobs, but yet what is min wage now? And how much does it cost to live? Greed is not the answer!!

By all means, if you have the ability to obtain wealth, do it without effecting the rest of america...



FYI:

I just paid 140 for some boots made in china, but I thought were made in america.. Now how does this help us? They lie to get my money, then pay the china man to make for 20buks... SMH!!

I don't agree with the importing of goods, since we could allow each and every corporation to build here, but where are the incentives whenn they can pay little to no money to open shop in china? Do you guys agree with this?

[MachNU]

I would have to type for hours trying to get my point across, but I will try to make it short..

1. I don't think wealth is the answer, nor do I agree with the way the corporations are run!

BUT

2. I do see a business being owned/run by the workers!


America IMO has lost grasp of the simple concept of living, do we really need all this money? Even then, you say the rich create jobs, but yet what is min wage now? And how much does it cost to live? Greed is not the answer!!

By all means, if you have the ability to obtain wealth, do it without effecting the rest of america...



FYI:

I just paid 140 for some boots made in china, but I thought were made in america.. Now how does this help us? They lie to get my money, then pay the china man to make for 20buks... SMH!!

I don't agree with the importing of goods, since we could allow each and every corporation to build here, but where are the incentives whenn they can pay little to no money to open shop in china? Do you guys agree with this?

I cannot express....how idiotic that sounds.

Business owned/run by the workers!?!?!?!! What the fuck! <----actually had to spell that out

What do you call the workers that RUN and OPERATE the business? The owners. Over time, they will expand creating more jobs hiring people, then is they are successful they will expand some more and hire more people. Then they will become executives and rich owners who will hire more people. The owners will in turn spend there money on luxury based business that are mostly self owned and increase the profit revenues of that business. That was in a quick nutshell.

What you are describing is a communist country. You want everyone to be equal. You are someone who is jealous of the wealthy because you cannot obtain it. There is nothing wrong with minimum wage. Do you want someone flipping fries to be getting paid $20 an hour?

Also your boot, let me break it down for you. Since you think that all the money went over seas for the boot. Those boots that you paid $140 for...I am SPIT BALLING HERE as I do not know exact costs...

But that shoe was made in Chine...at probably <$10 per boot. That brings us down too $130.
A company transported it here...no telling what nationality owned it...but say in a massive load out of that shoe another $5 went to shipping that went into another businesses revenues...$125
Shoe left customs/port, was transported to the store...say $10 out of that shoe. That money went into another companies revenues to pay employees and cost. $115
Shoe arrived at store, and employee was paid to price the shoe, move the shoe through inventory and display the shoe... total cost from employee $10... $105
Shoe gets sold to a foolish customer overpaying for a luxury item, employee has to ring the shoe up, box the shoe, do whatever for the shoe to sale it... $5....$100.
Shoe sat on display for a short time, so all the days that the store opened...using electricity, employees to run the store, insurance for employees and customers, rent fees and merchant service fees... total cost out of that shoe....$25....$75.
Company profited $75.
Profited $75 does not include paying accounts and higher up positions...so not telling at the end how much more was drained off.

Now the above numbers are WAY off...but just made up to reference the argument. All those times money went to county electric, private insurance companies, land owner and company that ran the merchant service and all there cost.

What you do not understand because your head seems to be stuck in your ass with blinders on...is the fact that one man at the head of a major corporation influenced MANY MANY MANY other companies bottom lines. No company out there is self sufficient and all the money they make stays in house. Not even wal-mart. The movie you spend with other companies gets handed off to other companies that pay their bills. Without these large companies many other larger companies and TONS of smaller companies would fail.

[05dc5s]

I would have to type for hours trying to get my point across, but I will try to make it short..

1. I don't think wealth is the answer, nor do I agree with the way the corporations are run!

BUT

2. I do see a business being owned/run by the workers!


America IMO has lost grasp of the simple concept of living, do we really need all this money? Even then, you say the rich create jobs, but yet what is min wage now? And how much does it cost to live? Greed is not the answer!!

By all means, if you have the ability to obtain wealth, do it without effecting the rest of america...



FYI:

I just paid 140 for some boots made in china, but I thought were made in america.. Now how does this help us? They lie to get my money, then pay the china man to make for 20buks... SMH!!

I don't agree with the importing of goods, since we could allow each and every corporation to build here, but where are the incentives whenn they can pay little to no money to open shop in china? Do you guys agree with this?

Out of curiosity is it the amount of profit that bothers you or the percentage of your "perception" of the cost amount?

Should profit be determined by a fixed amount or should it be regulated by a free market with supply and demand determining the price?

Also, is it anyone other than your responsibility to determine where the product was made and if you should spend your money on it?

You don't agree with the importing of goods yet you race a car made in Canada with a motor made in Japan?

Each corporation is allowed to build here but that is not why they all don't. Do you know why they do not? Do you really know the reason why that product was made in China and not in the U.S.?

[Sinfix_15]

I cant afford to pay more taxes. When my bills are do, i cant raise the debt limit or raise taxes to pay them. I have to balance my own budget and live within my means. I want our government to do the same thing they ask me to do. If the government balances their budget, gets rid of stupid spending and actually works like every other person in the united states rather than sitting in a room circle jerking each other and they still cant cut the debt.... then lets talk about raising taxes. Until then....... raising taxes feels like i handing my credit card to a 12 year old. Our government is not competent. They need to prove that they are before asking anything more of me. We're not in debt because i skipped out on the check, myself and every one else here paid our taxes..... it's the government who isnt keeping up their end of the bargain. if i dont do my job, i get fired. if i dont pay my bills, my lights get turned off........

time to start firing people and cutting the lights off in the white house. Last thing we need to do is hand these idiots more money. They need to prove their worth before asking for any more of mine.

[BanginJimmy]

FYI:

I just paid 140 for some boots made in china, but I thought were made in america.. Now how does this help us? They lie to get my money, then pay the china man to make for 20buks... SMH!!

I don't agree with the importing of goods, since we could allow each and every corporation to build here, but where are the incentives whenn they can pay little to no money to open shop in china? Do you guys agree with this?

I will come back and respond more to this later but I want to point this out now.

If thoae boots cost $140 being made in China at $20 a pair, what would they cost if they were made here? $400? Maybe more?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Vteckidd]

LOL typical.

ROmney made his money investing with firms like Bain Capital. He made businesses more efficient, bought and sold companies, expanded them, etc. We encourage investment in this country by offering CAPITAL GAINS PROFIT taxed at a lower rate.

If you make $100,000, you pay 35% in taxes= $$65000

If you take that $65000 and invest say, $10,000 in the stock market, and after a year you end up profiting $10,000, that $10,000 in PROFIT, you only pay 15% in taxes. The reason? Because your INITIAL investment ($10,000) Was already taxed at 35%, so to encourage you to INVEST that money, they say "hey, if you stick this in the stock market, you wont pay the regular 35% income tax YOU ALREADY PAID, youll pay a lower rate"

Romney lives off investing MILLIONS in the stock market and then living off the MILLIONS he makes in the stock market, which is taxed at 15%. Hes not cheating anything, hes using the law that presidents long before him and Obama passed.

FYI all you guys who are BOO HOO On investing, you realize investing helps companies GROW right? Why do you think Stock exists? You offer stock to raise capital (WHY ITS CAUSED CAPITAL GAINS).

WOrkers are free to choose what company they should work for. If you dont like your wage, change your career. I did it. I was tired of working for small businesses in the car industry being paid $8/hr, so i got out of it, STARTED MY OWN BUSINESS , Sold it and got into IT .

If you start a company, you should be able to pay yourself all you want

[Vteckidd]

if you want to end Chinese goods thats fine, but just realize that the cost of goods here will quadruple overnight.

Flatscreen TVs for $500? GONE
Iphones for $199? GONE
Walmart? GONE
PS3s for $299? GONE

EVERYTHING YOU OWN IS MADE IN CHINA. From cell phones , to clothes, to vacuum cleaners, to furniture, car parts, etc. If you outlaw the chinese goods you are asking the poor to pay MORE for goods , that in itself is massive inflation on the "poor".

AMERICAN MADE Is done, its not coming back. Our population is too addicted to buying cheap goods.

[Vteckidd]

Last point i make is Romneys wealth doesnt bother me, i want someone rich and successful in the White House. I want someone that knows how to streamline a budget and make cuts and has done it before.

The problem we face right now is nobody wants to deal with the hard choices. No one in politics wants to tell the American People "WE FUCKED UP, WE PROMISED YOU THINGS WE CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY YOU, IT HAS TO CHANGE"

Take SS. WE KNOW ITS BANKRUPT. We know its unsustainable, but do we want to fix it? NOPE. Anytime someone says "reform" they run ads of old people being thrown off cliffs or Pelosi talks about feeding dog food to the elderly and shit.

People bash Romney because he laid people off here, or shut down a company there, his job was to invest in companies and make them profitable. SOmetimes, you have to lay people off.

DOnt blow sunshine up my ass, deal with the problem and give it to me straight

[.blank cd]

Civic your a moron. At least Romney has some experience in the world....where as Obama pulled his head out of the sand and ran for President with no valuable experience in anything. Come on man. Lol. Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. This is what's making the right look bad.

[MachNU]

Come on man. Lol. Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. This is what's making the right look bad.

Really? Give me one shred of evidence that shows Obama really did "anything" that was creditable to being in office vs Romney.

[Vteckidd]

Obama was definelty the most inexperienced president we have had. Usually presidents are long time serving congressional figures, governors. etc.

Gerald Ford-Vice President, 14 years in Congress
Carter- Governor of Georgia
Reagan-Governor of California
Bush SR- Vice President of the USA
Clinton-Governor of Arkansas, Ran his own Law Practice
Bush W- Governor of Texas, Owned the Rangers

Obama had 3 years in the US senate( 2 were spent campaigning) and was a community organizer. Never had a real job in the private sector , wasnt and executive, didnt have any significant legislative accomplishments, etc He was extremely inexperienced. I think he had like 5 years in the Illinois state legislature which really doesnt count for much compared to his predecessors.

I always thought we should have elected Hilary with Obama as the VP, Obama would be poised to run in 2016.

[.blank cd]

I guess you'll both be happy to know our next president will be a former president of the united states. How's that for experience?

[Vteckidd]

I guess you'll both be happy to know our next president will be a former president of the united states. How's that for experience?

?

We were talking about candidate experience. its not a negative thing to say that Obama was the most inexperienced person we have elected in the last 30-40 years, maybe ever.

Romney has been a Governor of a major state, hes run a business, hes been successful, it helps to have BOTH Executive experience as well as private sector. Clinton had it, Bush had it, Reagan had it, Bush Sr had it, Carter had it, etc.

Obama has no private sector experience, and very very LITTLE legislative experience, and had ZERO executive experience, and frankly it shows. He doesnt know how to legislate, he doesnt know how to govern, he only knows how to trash the other side and get elected. The only thing he knows how to do is to be bipartisan when its politcally expediant, like extending the bush taxcuts.

[MachNU]

I guess you'll both be happy to know our next president will be a former president of the united states. How's that for experience?

Obama wont win. He is going to go down in history as the worse president ever. No ifs ands or buts. He has done ZERO in his time in office other than take away some freedoms (Obamacare) and more too the debt in one term than any other president has in history, probably even a few presidential terms combined.


?

We were talking about candidate experience. its not a negative thing to say that Obama was the most inexperienced person we have elected in the last 30-40 years, maybe ever.

Romney has been a Governor of a major state, hes run a business, hes been successful, it helps to have BOTH Executive experience as well as private sector. Clinton had it, Bush had it, Reagan had it, Bush Sr had it, Carter had it, etc.

Obama has no private sector experience, and very very LITTLE legislative experience, and had ZERO executive experience.

This. Romney may not be the best choice...but in comparison to the two...he is lightyears ahead as a better choice. If you can only chose two bad candidates might as well go with the best of the bunch.

[Browning151]

I guess you'll both be happy to know our next president will be a former president of the united states. How's that for experience?


Come on man. Lol. Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

:bigsmilie




In all reality most politicians are "out of touch" to a certain extent. At least Romney has some real world leadership experience, Obama's biggest strength was his ability to speak.........with a teleprompter.............and use catchy phrases.

[Vteckidd]

Obama wont win. He is going to go down in history as the worse president ever. No ifs ands or buts. He has done ZERO in his time in office other than take away some freedoms (Obamacare) and more too the debt in one term than any other president has in history, probably even a few presidential terms combined.

i wouldnt say that, itll be a very very close race. Obama has a very good shot at winning, he has the entire media in his pocket.

[Sinfix_15]

Come on man. Lol. Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. This is what's making the right look bad.

Obama was the least experienced president in US history. He will go down as the worst president in american history.

[.blank cd]

:bigsmilie




In all reality most politicians are "out of touch" to a certain extent. At least Romney has some real world leadership experience, Obama's biggest strength was his ability to speak.........with a teleprompter.............and use catchy phrases.

We're still doing the teleprompter thing? Lol. I dunno if you know how the teleprompter works.

[.blank cd]

He will go down as the worst president in american history.Won't happen. Not with the end of a conflict and the killing of some major terrorist figureheads under his belt.

[Browning151]

We're still doing the teleprompter thing? Lol. I dunno if you know how the teleprompter works.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's still doing the teleprompter thing.

[Sinfix_15]

Won't happen. Not with the end of a conflict and the killing of some major terrorist figureheads under his belt.

This being all you have to come back with, proves my point.



I understand how i would feel if i were black and the first black president was such a let down...... but it is what it is, cant sprinkle any more sugar on this one.

[MachNU]

Won't happen. Not with the end of a conflict and the killing of some major terrorist figureheads under his belt.

Your a moron. I mean wow...you shouldnt even be voting.

Obama WILL and I mean WILL go down in history as the worst president ever. 50 years from know, kids will be reading in there text book, about the president who spent more money in one term than any president has in 2 terms. Took away freedoms by getting Obamacare passed. Did NOT end a conflict. Had a major terrorist figurehead killed from an operation started by the previous president. Had the gas prices double in his term. Had the unemployment rate go higher than ever before in history. Only president ever to raise the debt ceiling. Played more games of golf in one term than any president in two terms combined. Spent more days on vacation in one term than any president in history. Sent his family on more trips on Air Force one, spending tons of tax payer money to fund there trips than any president in history. Been on more talk shows than ALL presidents combined in the last 50 years.

You could keep going on. He is literally the worse president in history and someone who would say otherwise is a moron, idiot, fool, blockhead, bonehead, cretin, dimwit, dork, dumbbell, dunce, fool, ignoramus, imbecile, jerk, kook, moron, muttonhead, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, out to lunch, pinhead, simpleton, stupid, tomfool, twit, etc.

Blank...which is ironic, you have yet to give ONE FACT as to ONE thing and I mean ONE thing that he has done that benefited the nation during his last term.

[.blank cd]

Your a moron. I mean wow...you shouldnt even be voting.

Obama WILL and I mean WILL go down in history as the worst president ever. 50 years from know, kids will be reading in there text book, about the president who spent more money in one term than any president has in 2 terms. Took away freedoms by getting Obamacare passed. Did NOT end a conflict. Had a major terrorist figurehead killed from an operation started by the previous president. Had the gas prices double in his term. Had the unemployment rate go higher than ever before in history. Only president ever to raise the debt ceiling. Played more games of golf in one term than any president in two terms combined. Spent more days on vacation in one term than any president in history. Sent his family on more trips on Air Force one, spending tons of tax payer money to fund there trips than any president in history. Been on more talk shows than ALL presidents combined in the last 50 years.

You could keep going on. He is literally the worse president in history and someone who would say otherwise is a moron, idiot, fool, blockhead, bonehead, cretin, dimwit, dork, dumbbell, dunce, fool, ignoramus, imbecile, jerk, kook, moron, muttonhead, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, out to lunch, pinhead, simpleton, stupid, tomfool, twit, etc.

Blank...which is ironic, you have yet to give ONE FACT as to ONE thing and I mean ONE thing that he has done that benefited the nation during his last term.I'm not even gonna bother cause you've shown you're one of those stubborn conservatives who reject facts if they don't confirm their own beliefs (this is called confirmation or confirmatory bias). I could tell you Obama ended world hunger and you'd still believe he's the anti-Christ. That's the problem with the system is that people like that have the same voice as people that are actually informed, and most of the time they end up being MORE vocal than the intelligent ones.

[MachNU]

I'm not even gonna bother cause you've shown you're one of those stubborn conservatives who reject facts if they don't confirm their own beliefs (this is called confirmation or confirmatory bias). I could tell you Obama ended world hunger and you'd still believe he's the anti-Christ. That's the problem with the system is that people like that have the same voice as people that are actually informed, and most of the time they end up being MORE vocal than the intelligent ones.

Your a fucking moron. buhahahahahahah its literally comical. You have brought NOTHING too the table to even support your invisible and fictional argument.

Blank I will post this question large so you do not miss it...

BLANK POST UP ONE PIECE OF FACTIONAL PROOF THAT OBAMA HAS DONE SOMETHING FOR THE ENTIRE NATION AS A WHOLE. SOMETHING THAT WOULD NOT MAKE HIM THE WORSE PRESIDENT IN HISTORY. IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST IN THIS SECTION AT LEAST POST SOMETHING FACTIONAL, NOT JUST MAKE COMMENTS WITH LESS THAN ZERO BASES TOO THEM. IF YOU CANNOT GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS SECTION.

I hope I made that large enough for you. I hate people like you. Blank you are the morons of this country that vote as a whole with moronic choices. I bet you voted for Obama because he was going to make a change, he was going to pay for your gas, etc.

[MachNU]

I'm not even gonna bother cause you've shown you're one of those stubborn conservatives who reject facts if they don't confirm their own beliefs (this is called confirmation or confirmatory bias). I could tell you Obama ended world hunger and you'd still believe he's the anti-Christ. That's the problem with the system is that people like that have the same voice as people that are actually informed, and most of the time they end up being MORE vocal than the intelligent ones.

This is a PERFECT reply to you Blank.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0)

[.blank cd]

You are really bringing the intelligence level of this section down, but I suppose I'll play your game if you want. Lol

First president in American history to publicly endorse marriage equality.

[.blank cd]

Your a moron. I mean wow...you shouldnt even be voting. You're right, because I shouldn't be voting unless it's for corporate big wigs with ridiculous net worths. Lol

[MachNU]

You are really bringing the intelligence level of this section down, but I suppose I'll play your game if you want. Lol

First president in American history to publicly endorse marriage equality.

Finally...you actually bring something too the table. You could say he did that for votes? All he did was endorse. Let me define this for you..."Declare one's public approval or support of." Nothing in that did he actually do for someone. He did not create an amendment, a law or even a constitutional precedence. He simply agreed with someones point of view. He did this to favor votes. Had he really been someone who was for this, shortly after he was sworn into office he would have declared a campaign for equal rights too marriage among gays and lesbians. I for one agree with this notion. But I agree with it on the terms of removing government control on peoples personal life's. If someone wants to have a partner in life and live THEIR life, then the government should have no saying in it.

Now since you missed the point, tell us something else that he actually DID, not endorse for this country. Something he passed, a treaty he signed, a war he was suppose to stop, life's he saved, foreign relations that he either fixed or started anew.

[.blank cd]

And just like that, machnu's entire argument fades into oblivion

[.blank cd]

Let's see how you do with this one. Lol

Signed an executive order to close Guantanamo Bay Detention facility

[MachNU]

And just like that, machnu's entire argument fades into oblivion

I am done replying to you. Its impossible to get through your head just how stupid you are. This was the best you could do. Do you even know what a debate is? You did not even rebuttal what I said...meaning your sub 100 IQ has nothing to disagree with.


Let's see how you do with this one. Lol

Signed an executive order to close Guantanamo Bay Detention facility

Signed in over two years ago, yet its still open. Good one!

[.blank cd]

-First black president of the United states

-Appointed the first Latina supreme court justice

-Healthcare reform (whether you like the mandate or not

-End of hostilities in Iraq (50/50 with Bush)

-Death of Bin Laden (split with Bush, with more credit to Obama)

-Approved stem cell research funding

Should I continue, or is this a bit much for someone like Glenn Beck to handle?

[.blank cd]

Signed in over two years ago, yet its still open. Good one!I knew you would say that since you dont really know much about the situation, as you've shown, and yet I still listed it. Lol.

Like I said. Typical close minded conservative: Rejects facts when they counter his firmly held beliefs. Lol.

[Vteckidd]

Obama wont go down as the worst president in history for a few reasons.

Killed Bin Laden
Passed Universal Healthcare
Inherited the worst recession in history*********
First Black President
First President to openly support gay marriage

Economically hes been absolutely horrible, socially hes done very well as far as historians will be concerned. And he will always have the "we dont know how bad it could have been if he didnt do what he did" excuse.

I dont really care if hes voted the best or worst, thats not the issue. If i had to grade him, id give him a D because hes done nothing leadership wise with the economy and he has promoted nothing but division.

[.blank cd]

BanginJimmy, Vteckidd, ever wonder why I say the conservative movement has totally gone off the deep end. I'm gonna point to this guy here. Lol. He is making the few conservatives who actually have some sense look dense. But alas, I can't group everyone based off of one persons ineptitude, so I apologize in advance. Lol

[Vteckidd]

I Mean at this point i think we know we disagree on policy for our own personal reasons, but i respect your positions. Im just not in the "beat obama to death" or call him names and stuff to prove a point camp. Some are, some arent.

I could really care less how history remembers him, and i could really care less if hes liked or not. Id prefer to see better economic data. Less UE, less national debt

[geoff]

^green is not a good colOr for anyone. Wealth envy is your issue sir. Obama's record more than speaks for itself as to his character or lack there of. Those who continue to support him are blind and have no self worth or pride. You wanna live on government hand outs your entire life? How proud your children will be to know their father never accomplished anything in his life. How proud they will be knowing they live off food stamps, government housing, and have total dependence on a corrupt government. Where sir is your independence, honor, and self worth? America was great because with hard work and determination a man could build his own legacy to leave behind for his family. You want financial equality, it must be earned not simply given. You want communism...my family grew up in a state of such "equality". My grandfather had his wealth and land ripped from him in communist Romania. He came to the USA as a political refugee. What you and Obama supporters want does not and will not ever work. My comments are for blank cd and all Obama supporters who shun Romney simply due to his wealth.

[.blank cd]

^green is not a good colOr for anyone. Wealth envy is your issue sir. Obama's record more than speaks for itself as to his character or lack there of. Those who continue to support him are blind and have no self worth or pride. You wanna live on government hand outs your entire life? How proud your children will be to know their father never accomplished anything in his life. How proud they will be knowing they live off food stamps, government housing, and have total dependence on a corrupt government. Where sir is your independence, honor, and self worth? America was great because with hard work and determination a man could build his own legacy to leave behind for his family. You want financial equality, it must be earned not simply given. You want communism...my family grew up in a state of such "equality". My grandfather had his wealth and land ripped from him in communist Romania. He came to the USA as a political refugee. What you and Obama supporters want does not and will not ever work. My comments are for blank cd and all Obama supporters who shun Romney simply due to his wealth.

You too? There's a website called theblaze.com, it's more suited for you and machnu's level of political intelligence.

And yes, I shun Romney just because of his wealth :rolleyes:

And you're right. His record does reflect his character, which says he's an outstanding human being whether you agree with his policies or not.

[MachNU]

Obama wont go down as the worst president in history for a few reasons.

Killed Bin Laden
Passed Universal Healthcare
Inherited the worst recession in history*********
First Black President
First President to openly support gay marriage

Economically hes been absolutely horrible, socially hes done very well as far as historians will be concerned. And he will always have the "we dont know how bad it could have been if he didnt do what he did" excuse.

I dont really care if hes voted the best or worst, thats not the issue. If i had to grade him, id give him a D because hes done nothing leadership wise with the economy and he has promoted nothing but division.

Yes he will. Killed Bin Laden based on a war started by his predecessor. A war that he claimed he was going to put an immediate stop too in his election camping. Had he done that, Bin Laden never would have been found/killed.
Passed a Universal Healthcare that took away a freedom of choice. Forced healthcare on people or be fined.
Inherited the worst recession in history only to make it worse. This is one of those things you cannot blame on him, because it did start in Bush term, but the fact that he made it worse...brings it more onto him. The recession started towards the last 2 years of Bush term, where as Obama has had it for nearly 4 years and not even come close to bringing a positive let alone a neutral win out of it.
Hes not even black. Hes what...half Hawaiian half Arabic?
Agreed. He may have been the first to support it, but again that does not speak for him as a president. Other people in legislative and executive branches and spoken out on this. He simply did it too favor votes.


I Mean at this point i think we know we disagree on policy for our own personal reasons, but i respect your positions. Im just not in the "beat obama to death" or call him names and stuff to prove a point camp. Some are, some arent.

I could really care less how history remembers him, and i could really care less if hes liked or not. Id prefer to see better economic data. Less UE, less national debt

I agree. I only argue it when someone says that he was a great, good or even mediocre president. Its simply fact to say he is and will be nothing more than a terrible president.


^green is not a good colOr for anyone. Wealth envy is your issue sir. Obama's record more than speaks for itself as to his character or lack there of. Those who continue to support him are blind and have no self worth or pride. You wanna live on government hand outs your entire life? How proud your children will be to know their father never accomplished anything in his life. How proud they will be knowing they live off food stamps, government housing, and have total dependence on a corrupt government. Where sir is your independence, honor, and self worth? America was great because with hard work and determination a man could build his own legacy to leave behind for his family. You want financial equality, it must be earned not simply given. You want communism...my family grew up in a state of such "equality". My grandfather had his wealth and land ripped from him in communist Romania. He came to the USA as a political refugee. What you and Obama supporters want does not and will not ever work. My comments are for blank cd and all Obama supporters who shun Romney simply due to his wealth.

Well said.

Too me its very very very right wing...but I think the only thing that will save this nation is for a social or political revolution to happen. No person will be any better, all politicians are corrupt and when they do get into a seat of power they pay back people that got them there. Until the next revolution, this country will continue to implode. Now I know that is far fetched...but what I really believe, in the sense of getting things fixed.

[Vteckidd]

Obama has arguably the worst record of any president save Jimmy Carter, and they still praise jimmy Carter and Carter isnt 1/100th the personality Obama is.

Bush had 7 3/4 years of economic amazingness, yet he will be remembered for a the Iraq war which 80% of congress voted to go into, and the 2008 crash which had about 50% to do with him, the other 50% was the democratically controlled congress since 2006.

but no history book will write that

[geoff]

Obama is a good human being? What about the disrespect he shows in failure to honor war vets? What about breaking tradition and shunning national day of prayer, the list goes on and on. To say he is a decent human being is ridiculous. He is two things; a great orator and a talented politician...I.e. supporting gay marriage. I have no interest in debating iq with you or any other supporter of liberal agenda...why?...because it would be like debating a Picasso work of art with a blind man. You sir, and every other liberal have turned the American dream into the American nightmare. You are blind. Blind to the truth and would rather swallow the crap the liberal media shoves down your throat, believe the bs of political experts and simply...you are a disgrace to your children. You are blind, deaf, and dumb. Blind to see the actions that must take place, deaf to hear the cries of the American people for reform, and dumb in that you do not speak what should be spoken. Are you happy with America? Do you honestly want more government controll, more government dependence, less individual freedom? A wise man once said, "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine. If you believe otherwise, then you sir are truly lost.

[.blank cd]

LMAO. You won't debate it cause you know you stand on the wrong side of the issue and the wrong side of reality.

Personal freedom means personal freedom for everyone, not just for people who share your backwards beliefs.

[Vteckidd]

Obama is a good human being? What about the disrespect he shows in failure to honor war vets? What about breaking tradition and shunning national day of prayer, the list goes on and on. To say he is a decent human being is ridiculous.

Uh, for 4th of July he had members from the Armed Services over to the White House for a BBQ, I dont think he DOESNT honor vets, i think hes been pretty respectful to our servicemen and women.

The National Day Or Prayer i think is just because its a democratic seperation of church and state issue.

I think as a human being, hes fine. I think hes someone you can chill with and have a beer, play basketball with. He seems like a nice guy. I just disagree with his politics

[geoff]

Your definition of "nice guy" and mine are different. And blank cd...wrong side of reality? What fairy tale land do you live in? The rich rule and prosper because they take the risks and either reap the benefits or pay the consequences. Every american is not entitled to a lavish lifestyle of having a fortune. You are entitled to three universal things according to the constitution; " life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". You and your family have lived with these all your life. My family came from a communist country and lived under the regime that Obama and liberal socialists are pushing for. Tell me, what hardship have you suffered? Have you ever had everything you ever worked for stripped from you over night only to be told its "only fair so everyone is equal"? No, I think not. Keep your welfare checks, food stamps, and Obamacare. As for me and my house; we will EARN our wealth and lifestyle through back breaking hard work. I may never have millions to leave my children, but I will leave them proud knowing their father was a hard working man that never took a handout.

[geoff]

By the way, you know what my country thought of your liberal socialist ideas? They took the president out in the streets and shot him and his evil wife dead on national tv. They then hunted down the other members of his regime. Now, they are impeaching a president who has lied to them, is corrupt, and whom they lost faith in. That to me is good politics.

[.blank cd]

Oh I forgot, all Obama supporters are welfare-receiving communists. My bad

I have a feeling you have a jaded view of what communism is, but trust me, nothing going on in America is even REMOTELY close to cold war era communism.

[.blank cd]

By the way, you know what my country thought of your liberal socialist ideas? They took the president out in the streets and shot him and his evil wife dead on national tv. They then hunted down the other members of his regime. Now, they are impeaching a president who has lied to them, is corrupt, and whom they lost faith in. That to me is good politics.

You use that word "socialism"

I don't think it means what you think it means.

[geoff]

I know exactly what I am saying and what I mean. The government to this day has been slowly but surely taken freedoms from the people. There are situational orders in place to turn America into a military state much like communism during the cold war era. What liberals want is more government control and regulation. This is no well kept secret. Their actions speak louder than their words. Spread the wealth, have everyone pay their fair share, ect....you wanna rely on the government to take care of you? The majority of Obama supporters are on some kind of social program or recieve benefits. Reminds me of that crazy lady during the 2008 campaign that said Obama was gonna pay for her mortgage and bills. Lol what a joke. Let me ask you...do you currently have a job or recieve some kind of government aid or have you ever?

[Vteckidd]

The majority of Obama supporters are on some kind of social program or recieve benefits.

FALSE and right wing political BULLSHIT FYI, MOST DEMOCRAT VOTERS are in FAVOR of more social programs, THAT IS WHAT MAKES THEM LIBERAL. So nothing new there. But to use a blanket statement for someone that got 54% of the popular vote is IGNORANT.



Reminds me of that crazy lady during the 2008 campaign that said Obama was gonna pay for her mortgage and bills. Lol what a joke. Let me ask you...do you currently have a job or recieve some kind of government aid or have you ever?

Theres Right Wing nutjobs too, so what. I dont like it when they pick out our fringe, so dont pick out theirs.

yes, i received Unemployment when i was 23 years old and got laid off. i got it for 6 months till i found another job. SO what? Im as conservative as they come fiscally.

[.blank cd]

I know exactly what I am saying and what I mean.No. Lol. You really don't.


The government to this day has been slowly but surely taken freedoms from the people. There are situational orders in place to turn America into a military state much like communism during the cold war era.I'm gonna need a citation for this


What liberals want is more government control and regulation. This is no well kept secret. Their actions speak louder than their words. Spread the wealth, have everyone pay their fair share, ect....you wanna rely on the government to take care of you?And this too...


The majority of Obama supporters are on some kind of social program or recieve benefits.and this...


Let me ask you...do you currently have a job or recieve some kind of government aid or have you ever?I have a job, never been on welfare, never had to be on unemployment. If I got fired or laid off, would I take it? In a heartbeat.

But you believe, contrary to reality, that public assistance is communism/socialism.

Since we're on the topic of government control, did you vote to extend the Sunday alcohol sales ban? Would you have voted for Amendment One in NC?

[geoff]

Of course he got 54% of the popular vote. He made history being the first black president. More social programs means more government dependence and "doing for one's self". So to support liberals means you agree with their agenda and government programs. The government ruined ss and drove it into the ground, we are $16 trillion in debt and you want them to have more control? Where is your logic?

[BanginJimmy]

Now let me interject.



-First black president of the United states

I will give him this, he was probably the most eloquent presidental candidate we have had in a couple decades, probably back to Kennedy. Lets keep to this what he has done since being in office though. He has appointed someone wholey unqualified to be sec tres. He has appointed the only Cabinet member to ever be declared in contempt of congress on top of many other questionable decisions in Holder.


-Appointed the first Latina supreme court justice

As with most court justices, this was an ideological and politically expedient decision.


-Healthcare reform (whether you like the mandate or not

Something that the majority of Americans are against.


-End of hostilities in Iraq (50/50 with Bush)

-Death of Bin Laden (split with Bush, with more credit to Obama)

Obama gets credit for giving the OK, nothing more. All actionable intelligence was gained because of Bush policies that Obama ended.


Should I continue, or is this a bit much for someone like Glenn Beck to handle?


You forgot to add the smallest increase in govt spending since Eisenhower. Please bring that one up for me.


BanginJimmy, Vteckidd, ever wonder why I say the conservative movement has totally gone off the deep end. I'm gonna point to this guy here. Lol. He is making the few conservatives who actually have some sense look dense. But alas, I can't group everyone based off of one persons ineptitude, so I apologize in advance. Lol

You have the geniuses like 1Civic on your side.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm gonna need a citation for this


This isnt BS. It is mentioned in Article 1 section 9 of the Constitution as part of the revocation of Habeas Corpus.

he privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

I believe there is also mention of this in the War Powers Act.


U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net (http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html)

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Of course he got 54% of the popular vote. He made history being the first black president. More social programs means more government dependence and "doing for one's self". So to support liberals means you agree with their agenda and government programs. The government ruined ss and drove it into the ground, we are $16 trillion in debt and you want them to have more control? Where is your logic? Of course he got 54%, because unlike a select few, the country as a whole is becoming more progressive.

I don't get the correlation between wanting social programs and being dependent on the government. The ideas are independent of each other. I want public assistance programs and I myself am not on them. How am I dependent on the government again?

[geoff]

Obama and his liberals words are enough citation, or have you never heard him say that the rich should pay their fair share? I'm glad to hear you have a job and never been on welfare, thank God the "evil" rich kept you employed. No I did not vote for alcohol sales on Sunday and yes I support the decision made in NC. You want to talk about seperation of church and state and government control, what about banning prayer from schools. What right did the government have in denying anyone with faith the right to pray in school( where they spend the majority of their day) regardless of what religion they follow. To me, more government and dependence on it is never a good thing. My family has lived through that, you have not.

[nelson9995]

[QUOTE=MachNU;39427856]Obama wont win. He is going to go down in history as the worse president ever. No ifs ands or buts. He has done ZERO in his time in office other than take away some freedoms (Obamacare) and more too the debt in one term than any other president has in history, probably even a few presidential terms combined.
QUOTE]

you sure are an idiot.

[geoff]

You may not depend on the government but yet demonize a presidential candidate because he made good decisions and accumulated mass wealth. You would love to see equal distribution of wealth wouldn't you?

[.blank cd]

I will give him this, he was probably the most eloquent presidental candidate we have had in a couple decades, probably back to Kennedy. Lets keep to this what he has done since being in office though.This is about what he will be remembered by in 50 years. The fact that he's the first black president will be pretty high on that list


Something that the majority of Americans are against. False, while the mandate may be unpopular, the rest of the reform is supported by at least half of Americans.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/29/888717/-Kaiser-poll-Health-care-reform-support-reaches-new-high

[geoff]

^lie. Half of the population has not read the entirety of the Obama healthcare reform and only know what is reported by a liberal media.

[nelson9995]

Something that the majority of Americans are against.

Maybe the southern republicans like yourself. More are in favor my friend. The south isn't the whole country. GA, Alabama, etc... are all shitty states compared to NY, Mass, etc... In these states, the people in power can do what they want to the common worker/person and they can get away with it. There is no such thing as job security in this shitty state. Try getting fired for no reason up North and see how well the "boss/owner" would have it.

[geoff]

I will no longer debate in this thread due to the fact that the ignorance displayed by some of you is giving me a headache. I will say this though, only a damn fool would think keeping America on the same path would be beneficial. And I leave with this, "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circlue of our felicities." Thomas Jefferson

[.blank cd]

Obama and his liberals words are enough citation, Thats what I thought.


No I did not vote for alcohol sales on Sunday and yes I support the decision made in NC. So creating an amendment to redefine marriage as solely a Christian institution, thus banning marriage equality is NOT government control, right? Or is there something Im missing?


You want to talk about seperation of church and state and government control, what about banning prayer from schools. What right did the government have in denying anyone with faith the right to pray in school( where they spend the majority of their day) regardless of what religion they follow.Public School in the United States is usually 8hrs long max. Not the majority of a 24hr day. It is also supported by tax dollars which sticks it right there with the separation of church and state. Since nobody wants to recognize religions other than Christianity, they do the smart thing and ban all of it. Personal prayer however is not banned. Would you be ok with sending your children to a school where the teachers read from the Quran for 20 min a day?

[.blank cd]

Another quote from Thomas Jefferson

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

-Treaty of Tripoli

[Vteckidd]

Of course he got 54% of the popular vote. He made history being the first black president. More social programs means more government dependence and "doing for one's self". So to support liberals means you agree with their agenda and government programs. The government ruined ss and drove it into the ground, we are $16 trillion in debt and you want them to have more control? Where is your logic?

You realize im the biggest anti obama person there is, but you are forcing me to point out the ALEX JONES talk youre spewing.

Im against Big Govt, im for SS reform, im for conservative fiscal policies, etc. But stop with the rhetoric

[BanginJimmy]

Maybe the southern republicans like yourself. More are in favor my friend. The south isn't the whole country. GA, Alabama, etc...

Polling says otherwise.

Health Care Law - Rasmussen Reports™ (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law)



are all shitty states compared to NY, Mass, etc...

Is that why people are leaving NY for states like Texas, Florida and Tennessee?

[BanginJimmy]

False, while the mandate may be unpopular, the rest of the reform is supported by at least half of Americans.

Daily Kos: Kaiser poll: Health care reform support reaches new high (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/29/888717/-Kaiser-poll-Health-care-reform-support-reaches-new-high)


Different pollsters are saying different thing.

Health Care Law - Rasmussen Reports™ (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law)

[geoff]

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty

Ah yes they must have been taking about Zues or Buhdda right? By the way, Thomas Jefferson signed this.

[.blank cd]

You are making a damn solid case against social programs, cause if you went to public school, its definitely failing.

[05dc5s]

Of course he got 54%, because unlike a select few, the country as a whole is becoming more progressive.

I don't get the correlation between wanting social programs and being dependent on the government. The ideas are independent of each other. I want public assistance programs and I myself am not on them. How am I dependent on the government again?

I'm curious, what makes you in favor of government social programs?


Obama and his liberals words are enough citation, or have you never heard him say that the rich should pay their fair share? I'm glad to hear you have a job and never been on welfare, thank God the "evil" rich kept you employed. No I did not vote for alcohol sales on Sunday and yes I support the decision made in NC. You want to talk about seperation of church and state and government control, what about banning prayer from schools. What right did the government have in denying anyone with faith the right to pray in school( where they spend the majority of their day) regardless of what religion they follow. To me, more government and dependence on it is never a good thing. My family has lived through that, you have not.

There ought to be a separation of church and banning prayer in schools was not right as it impeded on individuals rights however, it can't be both ways. One of the biggest issues is that economically conservative people tend to bring religion and social beliefs where they do no belong.


[QUOTE=MachNU;39427856]Obama wont win. He is going to go down in history as the worse president ever. No ifs ands or buts. He has done ZERO in his time in office other than take away some freedoms (Obamacare) and more too the debt in one term than any other president has in history, probably even a few presidential terms combined.
QUOTE]

you sure are an idiot.

He may have made a statement that you do not agree with but, just calling him an idiot does nothing to dispute his point whether he is right or not.


You may not depend on the government but yet demonize a presidential candidate because he made good decisions and accumulated mass wealth. You would love to see equal distribution of wealth wouldn't you?

I might have missed it but where did he demonize him and for the reasons you just stated?


This is about what he will be remembered by in 50 years. The fact that he's the first black president will be pretty high on that list

False, while the mandate may be unpopular, the rest of the reform is supported by at least half of Americans.

Daily Kos: Kaiser poll: Health care reform support reaches new high (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/29/888717/-Kaiser-poll-Health-care-reform-support-reaches-new-high)


^lie. Half of the population has not read the entirety of the Obama healthcare reform and only know what is reported by a liberal media.

Do you have any other sources to back that? I am still under the impression that the majority of the population does not support this decision.



Maybe the southern republicans like yourself. More are in favor my friend. The south isn't the whole country. GA, Alabama, etc... are all shitty states compared to NY, Mass, etc... In these states, the people in power can do what they want to the common worker/person and they can get away with it. There is no such thing as job security in this shitty state. Try getting fired for no reason up North and see how well the "boss/owner" would have it.

What is good about a company not having the right to fire someone at will? If it is a bad decision then that hurts the company and ultimately if it's a good employee they will benefit another. The first company is punished in that way. It should work differently than that in your opinion? What gives anyone a right to "job security" beyond the job security that is provided to you by the value your bring to the company you work for?

[geoff]

The religion thing was brought up by blank, I simply gave him an example. As far as him demoniIng the wealthy, read his posts. They are full of envy and how he believes all should be financially equal. Good points on the last paragraph though. Funny how the southern hicks got it all wrong yet here he still lives.

[05dc5s]

The religion thing was brought up by blank, I simply gave him an example. As far as him demoniIng the wealthy, read his posts. They are full of envy and how he believes all should be financially equal. Good points on the last paragraph though. Funny how the southern hicks got it all wrong yet here he still lives.

If he feels that way(which I am unsure if he does) then I do disagree. Individuals do have rights to equality in opportunity but not equal results.

[.blank cd]

I'm curious, what makes you in favor of government social programs?Why wouldn't you be in favor of social programs? Don't like paying taxes? There's a lot of consequences of getting rid of public assistance programs that people don't think about when they're on their "why should I pay for everyone else's [fill in the blank]"


There ought to be a separation of church and banning prayer in schools was not right as it impeded on individuals rights however, it can't be both ways. One of the biggest issues is that economically conservative people tend to bring religion and social beliefs where they do no belong.Its school sanctioned prayer that's banned. Not personal prayer. No ones individual rights are infringed upon.


Do you have any other sources to back that? I am still under the impression that the majority of the population does not support this decision.The majority may not like the mandate. That's the main issue.

[1civic]

BanginJimmy, I will agree with you and let it be known that politics are not my strong suit, but I'm all ears!!

Explain to me in your opinion how we can begin change?

Do you think someone like Romney is the answer?

[05dc5s]

Why wouldn't you be in favor of social programs? Don't like paying taxes? There's a lot of consequences of getting rid of public assistance programs that people don't think about when they're on their "why should I pay for everyone else's [fill in the blank]"

Its school sanctioned prayer that's banned. Not personal prayer. No ones individual rights are infringed upon.

The majority may not like the mandate. That's the main issue.

What might be the consequences of eliminating government mandated/controlled public assistance programs?

Being an Atheist I didn't follow the elimination of school sanctioned prayer. As long as those that choose to believe are allowed to do so during unstructured times then I can agree with the decision for time not being taken from others that do not believe.

I don't understand how you saying the majority may not like the issue can jive with your previous statement saying the majority supports it.

[MachNU]

BanginJimmy, I will agree with you and let it be known that politics are not my strong suit, but I'm all ears!!

Explain to me in your opinion how we can begin change?

Do you think someone like Romney is the answer?

I think Jimmy can give a MUCH better answer than I can toward exact specifics...but really....between Obama and Romney, its better to go with the best of the worse. It would be hard for Romney to do any worse than Obama has done. At least Romney has a considerable amount more experience in running something than Obama.

[1civic]

I think Jimmy can give a MUCH better answer than I can toward exact specifics...but really....between Obama and Romney, its better to go with the best of the worse. It would be hard for Romney to do any worse than Obama has done. At least Romney has a considerable amount more experience in running something than Obama.

And I agree, Romney has Obama when it comes to experience...

[Vteckidd]

What you get with Obama is a sluggish private sector economy, a huge increase in govt programs and spending, slow GDP growth, wishy waashy foreign policy.

What you get with Romney is pro-growth economic policies that have worked the last 100 years(although im sure ill get flamed for this), probably a cut in social programs, less govt spending (HOPEFULLY).

Im not a huge Romney fan, but ill take conservative economics over liberal economics any day of the week.

Im of the belief that the rich create jobs, and the rich employ people. Im of the belief that giving incentive to the private sector gets them to hire and invest. Im not on the same side as liberal who think that demonizing the wealthy to buy votes works out in everyones favor.

[nelson9995]

The rich create jobs, employ people, and have the power to exploit them, which they already do. I'm not saying take from the rich. I'm saying, lay rules and laws so that the rich are able to employ people and treat them like people, not robots.

[Vteckidd]

The rich create jobs, employ people, and have the power to exploit them, which they already do. I'm not saying take from the rich. I'm saying, lay rules and laws so that the rich are able to employ people and treat them like people, not robots.

If you know a better system, by all means let me know about it.

You say exploit, i say employ. Its on the WORKER to find a job and decide if they like it. If they dont, they can leave.

You get paid based upon your education and experience, bottom line. If you have ea good education and good experience, you make good money. If you dont, you dont get paid well. I dont think theres exploitation when youre upset about a person doing manual labor and getting paid $10/hr. Manual Labor is manual labor, its cheap, its a job anyone can do.

Now go find me a minimum wage worker that can subnet 100 networks for a fortune 500 company or can do Lan/Wan optimization. Theres a reason why certain jobs pay more than others. (FYI ive been both in the above scenario).

[MachNU]

The rich create jobs, employ people, and have the power to exploit them, which they already do. I'm not saying take from the rich. I'm saying, lay rules and laws so that the rich are able to employ people and treat them like people, not robots.

Thats the nature of the beast. Number one rule of being a boss, manager or owner is not become friends with your employees. Where you see bosses exploiting you, they see it as getting you to do what they pay you to do.


If you know a better system, by all means let me know about it.

You say exploit, i say employ. Its on the WORKER to find a job and decide if they like it. If they dont, they can leave.

You get paid based upon your education and experience, bottom line. If you have ea good education and good experience, you make good money. If you dont, you dont get paid well. I dont think theres exploitation when youre upset about a person doing manual labor and getting paid $10/hr. Manual Labor is manual labor, its cheap, its a job anyone can do.

Now go find me a minimum wage worker that can subnet 100 networks for a fortune 500 company or can do Lan/Wan optimization. Theres a reason why certain jobs pay more than others. (FYI ive been both in the above scenario).

So very true!

Like I said a few pages ago....do you think someone flipping fries at Burger King deserves $15, $20 or $25 an hour?

[nelson9995]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol
I look at business owners the same way I look at a worm. No lie lol

I have a FULL TIME friend at Coca Cola. He is "full time" but doesn't work more than 30hrs a week, slammed with work at a quick as pace. He is 21 and complains about back problems. They can easily slow the pace down and give him 40hrs since he is full time.

When christmas comes around then he gets 60hrs a week at a pace where he says people quit all the time. So they give him more work that he's suppose to do and take away 10hrs? see what I'm talking about.

I understand there is nothing I, or anyone can do about it. They have theirs coming though. I know it.

You guys are okay with that because like business owners, you don't give 2 f*cks about anyone but yourselves. I care about people's well being.
These people could care less if every 10 years their employees have to quit with physical problems. Ambition blinds them. All they care about is making more and more money. I have been told this from exactly 3 business owners. They straight up told me all they care about is making more money, no matter what has to be done. I looked at them and laughed at them. Literally, with intentions of doing something that would take me to jail.

[Vteckidd]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol

YES THATS OK. ITS THEIR COMPANY, NOT YOURS. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, LEAVE. My GF works for Coke and makes ...........A LOT, more than $80k. But she has a college education and has worked there for 5 years.

You dont get to choose what you get paid, THE OWNER DOES. DONT LIKE IT, LEAVE, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE

its really that simple


OR

GO INVEST AND START YOUR OWN COMPANY SO YOU CAN MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR. You act like the OWNERS just fell into their jobs. do you understand the risk there is in starting a business. You think a company just OPENS and the Owner makes BILLIONS a year?

I USED TO OWN A BUSINESS , ITS BACKBREAKING WORK, ITS NOT KNOWING WHERE YOUR NEXT PAYCHECK COMES FROM, ITS WORRYING ABOUT PAYING YOUR BILLS AND YOUR EMPLOYEES, ETC

[MachNU]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol
I look at business owners the same way I look at a worm. No lie lol

I have a FULL TIME friend at Coca Cola. He is "full time" but doesn't work more than 30hrs a week, slammed with work at a quick as pace. He is 21 and complains about back problems. They can easily slow the pace down and give him 40hrs since he is full time.

When christmas comes around then he gets 60hrs a week at a pace where he says people quit all the time. So they give him more work that he's suppose to do and take away 10hrs? see what I'm talking about.

I understand there is nothing I, or anyone can do about it. They have theirs coming though. I know it.

You guys are okay with that because like business owners, you don't give 2 f*cks about anyone but yourselves. I care about people's well being.
These people could care less if every 10 years their employees have to quit with physical problems. Ambition blinds them. All they care about is making more and more money. I have been told this from exactly 3 business owners. They straight up told me all they care about is making more money, no matter what has to be done. I looked at them and laughed at them. Literally, with intentions of doing something that would take me to jail.

Was going to reply to this but....Mike pretty much summed it up.


YES THATS OK. ITS THEIR COMPANY, NOT YOURS. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, LEAVE. My GF works for Coke and makes ...........A LOT, more than $80k. But she has a college education and has worked there for 5 years.

You dont get to choose what you get paid, THE OWNER DOES. DONT LIKE IT, LEAVE, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE

its really that simple


OR

GO INVEST AND START YOUR OWN COMPANY SO YOU CAN MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR. You act like the OWNERS just fell into their jobs. do you understand the risk there is in starting a business. You think a company just OPENS and the Owner makes BILLIONS a year?

I USED TO OWN A BUSINESS , ITS BACKBREAKING WORK, ITS NOT KNOWING WHERE YOUR NEXT PAYCHECK COMES FROM, ITS WORRYING ABOUT PAYING YOUR BILLS AND YOUR EMPLOYEES, ETC

Again...well said.

Nelson, you are correct as a business owner I do not care about anyone but myself. You know why that is? Because I am the one taking ALL the risk. I dont survive if I dont bring in money. Now I will admit, I do pay my employees better than they deserve. But within reason. I pay them better because I believe they deserve it. But i am not going to double their pay. I have margins and bottom lines to keep. I have had weeks where I pay myself $100 when I worked 30-40 hours. Because my business needed to save money too pay bills or pay for equipment or supplies. Or to help save towards future ventures. If I keep my current plan rate and my business keeps progressing like it is...I am on track to make a million by the time I am 30. You know why that is? Because years ago I set a goal for myself to do that.

Granted there are bosses owners that are corrupt as shit, but its those few that make the rest look bad. Also, when you refer to most companies making people work on the Big 4 holidays those are not companies, they are franchised owned and I would bet the franchisee is working that day and paying their employees time and a half like required by federal law.

I will cut anyones throat who fucks with my livelihood. I am going to be severing a 4 year old friendship with someone next week over my business because my business trumpts him and I's personal and business relationship. So when I make it too the top one day, I do deserve a better life because I know I will have busted my ass to get there and like any major company, those who started on the ground floor with me will find themselves in a better place for helping. So when you look at business owners as "worms" you need to understand its simply because your probably lazy and jealous and have no idea what someone had to do too get there.

[BanginJimmy]

BanginJimmy, I will agree with you and let it be known that politics are not my strong suit, but I'm all ears!!

Explain to me in your opinion how we can begin change?

Do you think someone like Romney is the answer?


It is quite obvious you have no clue how the world works.

How can we change what?

Is Romney the answer to what?

[05dc5s]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol
I look at business owners the same way I look at a worm. No lie lol

I have a FULL TIME friend at Coca Cola. He is "full time" but doesn't work more than 30hrs a week, slammed with work at a quick as pace. He is 21 and complains about back problems. They can easily slow the pace down and give him 40hrs since he is full time.

When christmas comes around then he gets 60hrs a week at a pace where he says people quit all the time. So they give him more work that he's suppose to do and take away 10hrs? see what I'm talking about.

I understand there is nothing I, or anyone can do about it. They have theirs coming though. I know it.

You guys are okay with that because like business owners, you don't give 2 f*cks about anyone but yourselves. I care about people's well being.
These people could care less if every 10 years their employees have to quit with physical problems. Ambition blinds them. All they care about is making more and more money. I have been told this from exactly 3 business owners. They straight up told me all they care about is making more money, no matter what has to be done. I looked at them and laughed at them. Literally, with intentions of doing something that would take me to jail.

I am failing to see the problem with the owner of company making money, that is the purpose of owning a business. What does the amount that a worker makes have to do with that whatsoever?

If your friend doesn't like his job and feels he is undervalued and actually is then, I can assure you, there are other opportunities and he should seek them. I'm unsure what you mean about Coca Cola having it coming, do you have a vendetta against them?

If you care about the well being of others so much then help them but, saying your friend is being take advantage of, and that the company he works for is bad for doing so, does not help him. I have done about ever form of manual labor from landscaping to construction and I recognized that being at the bottom and expecting my body to last would not be sustainable. If your friends value is being underestimated then he should seek out another company.

What is wrong with an ambitious business owner? Their ambition and desire to make more money gives them incentive to grow and create more jobs. If a company or owner neglects and is unaware of the value of their good employees, then they lose them to business owners that do not. If you feel so strongly about your point that you're so impassioned you're considering violence then I would take that energy and direct it towards helping people in the way you think is right and creating a business that you run the way you wish. If everyone else has it all wrong then you'll be highly successful and well rewarded. Go for it.

[Browning151]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol
I look at business owners the same way I look at a worm. No lie lol

I have a FULL TIME friend at Coca Cola. He is "full time" but doesn't work more than 30hrs a week, slammed with work at a quick as pace. He is 21 and complains about back problems. They can easily slow the pace down and give him 40hrs since he is full time.

When christmas comes around then he gets 60hrs a week at a pace where he says people quit all the time. So they give him more work that he's suppose to do and take away 10hrs? see what I'm talking about.

I understand there is nothing I, or anyone can do about it. They have theirs coming though. I know it.

You guys are okay with that because like business owners, you don't give 2 f*cks about anyone but yourselves. I care about people's well being.
These people could care less if every 10 years their employees have to quit with physical problems. Ambition blinds them. All they care about is making more and more money. I have been told this from exactly 3 business owners. They straight up told me all they care about is making more money, no matter what has to be done. I looked at them and laughed at them. Literally, with intentions of doing something that would take me to jail.

Everyone seems to have covered this pretty well; If you don't like your situation.......CHANGE IT, the only person that can do that is you.

There are no victims, only volunteers.

[Sinfix_15]

So it's okay for the owner to be a billionaire making more money each day while his employees are working July 4, thanksgiving, Christmas, bagging 55 bags a minute making $8? lol
I look at business owners the same way I look at a worm. No lie lol

I have a FULL TIME friend at Coca Cola. He is "full time" but doesn't work more than 30hrs a week, slammed with work at a quick as pace. He is 21 and complains about back problems. They can easily slow the pace down and give him 40hrs since he is full time.

When christmas comes around then he gets 60hrs a week at a pace where he says people quit all the time. So they give him more work that he's suppose to do and take away 10hrs? see what I'm talking about.

I understand there is nothing I, or anyone can do about it. They have theirs coming though. I know it.

You guys are okay with that because like business owners, you don't give 2 f*cks about anyone but yourselves. I care about people's well being.
These people could care less if every 10 years their employees have to quit with physical problems. Ambition blinds them. All they care about is making more and more money. I have been told this from exactly 3 business owners. They straight up told me all they care about is making more money, no matter what has to be done. I looked at them and laughed at them. Literally, with intentions of doing something that would take me to jail.

It's not that we dont care about other people (i probably dont though). I wish everyone could have a 3 story house and a ferrari, but you cant just give it to them with money you dont have because you want to. Whether you like Obamacare or not, you may think it's the greatest thing in the world.... it may be..... fact is...... it's unsustainable and theyre pulling money out of their ass to pay for it. This is why Obama will go down as the worst president ever. He's running around the world swiping his presidential credit card trying to make friends with everyone (his voters) and i dont want to get stuck with the bill. If we could print endless amounts of money without anything bad happening, Obama would be a fantastic president. He would just spend all of our problems away.

[bu villain]

I haven't really kept up with politics much due to the fact that it has become way too political.

Hehe. I have to agree, politics are political.


But I have seen all this fuss and low balling in negative ads about Romney being too rich and out of touch with the middle class... Do any of you here see this as an issue that should keep him from winning the election?

There is nothing wrong with being rich but it is valid to question whether a candidate truly understands and can sympathize with how most of the population lives. Of course Obama is rich as well so he is also lives a significantly different life than the common man. I think Romney has shown himself time and time again to be more out of touch than Obama but that is only one small consideration among many when choosing a candidate. I would never make it a primary factor in who I vote for.

[1civic]

It is quite obvious you have no clue how the world works.

How can we change what?

Is Romney the answer to what?

It is quite obvious you have no clue how to answer a question..

Do i need to really type out 500 words for you to answer 2 questions?

It's simple, I wanna know your views, and if you see Romney taking america in the right direction if elected.. It's not like we have a bunch of candidates which surpass Obama..

[BanginJimmy]

It is quite obvious you have no clue how to answer a question..

Do i need to really type out 500 words for you to answer 2 questions?

If I knew what question to answer it would be easier.



It's simple, I wanna know your views, and if you see Romney taking america in the right direction if elected.. It's not like we have a bunch of candidates which surpass Obama..

Romney is a political hack that will say anything to get elected, just like nearly every other politician in the country.

Is he going to move the country in the right direction? Not a chance. IMO he will drive us over a cliff a little slower than Obama though so maybe we can survive the fall.


What other views of mine would you like? I have a long history in this forum and my views are pretty well known so you will have to be more specific on which views you would like to call into question.

[.blank cd]

Romney is a political hack that will say anything to get elected, just like nearly every other politician in the country.

Is he going to move the country in the right direction? Not a chance. IMO he will drive us over a cliff a little slower than Obama though so maybe we can survive the fall.


What other views of mine would you like? I have a long history in this forum and my views are pretty well known so you will have to be more specific on which views you would like to call into question.

This is the most centerist thing I've ever seen you say...

[BanginJimmy]

This is the most centerist thing I've ever seen you say...

I'm not the least bit a fan of Romney and will likely sit this one out. He is still a vast improvement over Obama though.

[1civic]

If I knew what question to answer it would be easier.




Romney is a political hack that will say anything to get elected, just like nearly every other politician in the country.

Is he going to move the country in the right direction? Not a chance. IMO he will drive us over a cliff a little slower than Obama though so maybe we can survive the fall.


What other views of mine would you like? I have a long history in this forum and my views are pretty well known so you will have to be more specific on which views you would like to call into question.

And I agree, it doesn't take rocket science to have seen the path Obama would take, and I don't feel we have any good candidates on purpose.. I think someone wants Obama to have another term IMO.. I myself don't view much on this section, but I follow what's important..
It's better to listen to someone who has more knowledge on the topic, that is why I ask..

As for the first question I ask, it was based solely on how you feel about the economy in general, what is the direction/path IYO it should go for this country, in other-words, what type of President do you think will turn things around?

[BanginJimmy]

what type of President do you think will turn things around?

No one that would put themselves and their family through an election will be able to turn the economy around. The only people that can do that are too smart and too honorable to have their name drawn through the mud.

After the conventions in August watch the ads that start playing. All you will see is mud slinging. Neither has any new ideas, neither cares. They want the job and the power that comes with it.

[geoff]

^this

[Vteckidd]

Im not a fan of either, but id rather see a change that keep with obama. Romney will have 4 years to get UE down, period. If we see an explosion in growth in the private sector, taxes remain relatively low, middle class starts getting hired and UE drops to Bush W levels, there will be a GOP person in the WH until 2020.

On the other hand, if the rich get richer and the poor dont get hired, we may not make it till another election

[nelson9995]

On the other hand, if the rich get richer and the poor dont get hired, we may not make it till another election

lol... i see what you did there. :ninja:

[BanginJimmy]

On the other hand, if the rich get richer and the poor dont get hired, we may not make it till another election


I wonder how much of our unemployment is caused by employers not being able to forecast for the future. Temp hiring is also much higher than normal, especially for 2 years after the end of the recession.



A bit outdated, but a good article about our jobs situation that I believe still applies today.
Why the Jobs Situation Is Worse Than It Looks - US News and World Report (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2011/06/20/why-the-jobs-situation-is-worse-than-it-looks?page=2)

[alpine_aw11]

Every politician is "out of touch" in their own way.