Religion and the Brain

[RandomGuy]

Interesting article from NewsWeek that I stumbled across.

Link (https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/0/e938e40271ec394c85256a4a00626175?OpenDocument)

Is not one of the unfortunate, illogical aspects of religion the fact that one cannot put himself in the 3rd person without feeling a sense of abandonment to their 'beliefs'? To truly observe one's own religion as they do the other 'untrue' beliefs, one might move closer to understanding religion's role in society as a north pole to the moral compass instead of a one-size-fits-all, believe-me-or-burn-in-hell, moral doctrine.

As pertaining to the article, when you thought you were touched by the 'holy spirit' was it not similar to the feeling you get when you hear an absolutely fantastic piece of music that really moves you? You feel a sense of something extra-spiritual? Maybe you get goosebumps because it strikes a chord with something inside you that you just can't explain?

If so, is there not obviously some sort of positive correlation between the feeling of 'God' and the feeling of a moving piece of music?

Oh, that missing scientific link between reality, spirituality, and the need for dietic dominance and human subservance. Why haven't we put the puzzle together yet?

[Malana]

We haven't put the puzzle together yet because it would spoil all the fun. Carl Sagan wrote "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?”

I think it does. :-)

To answer your first question, when I have thought I was touched by the Holy Spirit it was similar but distinctly different from what I feel when I hear great music.

For me, absolutely fantastic music such as Le Sacre du printemps IS extra-spiritual but it is more akin to the feeling of a handsome man with strong fingers and glistening dark eyes touching you in just the right spot . Yes… you do get goosebumps. It quickens your breath from a starburst of awareness running up and down your spine and out to the tips of fingers and toes. But it isn’t the same as feeling glorious.

The word you are looking for is “numinance.” Sagan talks about it in Contact (you’ll have to read the book as it isn’t in the movie.) Yes, for me it is felt in music and great art that celebrates the Holy Spirit such as Pachabel’s canon, Michelangelo’s Pieta, or Berlioz Requiem. It is that moment when I pray and feel peace. It was the Bishop laying his hands on my head at my conformation. It is taking the Holy Eucharist and it is probably a thousand other things I don’t understand for people of other faiths and denominations.

Numinance is found by whatever works for you to bring you to it. The most important thing is not to ever knock the path someone else takes to get to it. Mother Teresa said, “I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”

Did you see M. Night Shymalan’s Signs? Do you want to believe in signs and miracles?

Some people see the way the world comes together as pure luck and others see it as an amazing miracle. Frankly, I found it easier to believe it happened by chance before I learned a lot about the way it all works. What if lightwaves couldn’t travel through a vacuum? What if iron didn’t oxidize? What if the sperm that made you you had been bumped out of the way by another only minutely different? Would it still have been your soul that developed in that fertilized ovum? When I look at these things, I believe. I know that someone there who listens when I pray and it gives me hope.

My belief isn’t a sign that I’m simple. It’s a sign that I’m human. I embrace it as part of the joy and wonder of the miracle itself.

Most people who find themselves raging against “a one-size-fits-all, believe-me-or-burn-in-hell moral doctrine” are really raging against the stifling of skepticism and scrutiny and inquiry that inevitably follow on the coattails of organized religion.

No human being now or in the future wants to get to the party and discover the canon is closed. Those who are not young (and this has nothing to do with age) want the puzzle to be complete and those who are young want to believe the puzzle is still sitting in the box waiting to be put together.

And others of us... just like playing tiddlywinks with the puzzle pieces because we know it bugs the heck out of the other folks. :-)

[RandomGuy]

We haven't put the puzzle together yet because it would spoil all the fun. Carl Sagan wrote "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?”

I think it does. :-)

To answer your first question, when I have thought I was touched by the Holy Spirit it was similar but distinctly different from what I feel when I hear great music.

For me, absolutely fantastic music such as Le Sacre du printemps IS extra-spiritual but it is more akin to the feeling of a handsome man with strong fingers and glistening dark eyes touching you in just the right spot . Yes… you do get goosebumps. It quickens your breath from a starburst of awareness running up and down your spine and out to the tips of fingers and toes. But it isn’t the same as feeling glorious.

The word you are looking for is “numinance.” Sagan talks about it in Contact (you’ll have to read the book as it isn’t in the movie.) Yes, for me it is felt in music and great art that celebrates the Holy Spirit such as Pachabel’s canon, Michelangelo’s Pieta, or Berlioz Requiem. It is that moment when I pray and feel peace. It was the Bishop laying his hands on my head at my conformation. It is taking the Holy Eucharist and it is probably a thousand other things I don’t understand for people of other faiths and denominations.

Numinance is found by whatever works for you to bring you to it. The most important thing is not to ever knock the path someone else takes to get to it. Mother Teresa said, “I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”

Did you see M. Night Shymalan’s Signs? Do you want to believe in signs and miracles?

Some people see the way the world comes together as pure luck and others see it as an amazing miracle. Frankly, I found it easier to believe it happened by chance before I learned a lot about the way it all works. What if lightwaves couldn’t travel through a vacuum? What if iron didn’t oxidize? What if the sperm that made you you had been bumped out of the way by another only minutely different? Would it still have been your soul that developed in that fertilized ovum? When I look at these things, I believe. I know that someone there who listens when I pray and it gives me hope.

My belief isn’t a sign that I’m simple. It’s a sign that I’m human. I embrace it as part of the joy and wonder of the miracle itself.

Most people who find themselves raging against “a one-size-fits-all, believe-me-or-burn-in-hell moral doctrine” are really raging against the stifling of skepticism and scrutiny and inquiry that inevitably follow on the coattails of organized religion.

No human being now or in the future wants to get to the party and discover the canon is closed. Those who are not young (and this has nothing to do with age) want the puzzle to be complete and those who are young want to believe the puzzle is still sitting in the box waiting to be put together.

And others of us... just like playing tiddlywinks with the puzzle pieces because we know it bugs the heck out of the other folks. :-)

first post?

[Malana]

What? It shows? Sorry if I rambled too much.

Couldn't sleep and was googling for information on paint ball guns so I can buy one for a friend for Christmas. I still haven't figured out why I ended up here. There doesn't seem to be anything about paintball guns but it took a while to figure out how to navigate. I had to sign up to read the messages and your post caught my eye. :-)

[ISAtlanta300]

We haven't put the puzzle together yet because it would spoil all the fun. Carl Sagan wrote "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?”

I think it does. :-)

To answer your first question, when I have thought I was touched by the Holy Spirit it was similar but distinctly different from what I feel when I hear great music.

For me, absolutely fantastic music such as Le Sacre du printemps IS extra-spiritual but it is more akin to the feeling of a handsome man with strong fingers and glistening dark eyes touching you in just the right spot . Yes… you do get goosebumps. It quickens your breath from a starburst of awareness running up and down your spine and out to the tips of fingers and toes. But it isn’t the same as feeling glorious.

The word you are looking for is “numinance.” Sagan talks about it in Contact (you’ll have to read the book as it isn’t in the movie.) Yes, for me it is felt in music and great art that celebrates the Holy Spirit such as Pachabel’s canon, Michelangelo’s Pieta, or Berlioz Requiem. It is that moment when I pray and feel peace. It was the Bishop laying his hands on my head at my conformation. It is taking the Holy Eucharist and it is probably a thousand other things I don’t understand for people of other faiths and denominations.

Numinance is found by whatever works for you to bring you to it. The most important thing is not to ever knock the path someone else takes to get to it. Mother Teresa said, “I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”

Did you see M. Night Shymalan’s Signs? Do you want to believe in signs and miracles?

Some people see the way the world comes together as pure luck and others see it as an amazing miracle. Frankly, I found it easier to believe it happened by chance before I learned a lot about the way it all works. What if lightwaves couldn’t travel through a vacuum? What if iron didn’t oxidize? What if the sperm that made you you had been bumped out of the way by another only minutely different? Would it still have been your soul that developed in that fertilized ovum? When I look at these things, I believe. I know that someone there who listens when I pray and it gives me hope.

My belief isn’t a sign that I’m simple. It’s a sign that I’m human. I embrace it as part of the joy and wonder of the miracle itself.

Most people who find themselves raging against “a one-size-fits-all, believe-me-or-burn-in-hell moral doctrine” are really raging against the stifling of skepticism and scrutiny and inquiry that inevitably follow on the coattails of organized religion.

No human being now or in the future wants to get to the party and discover the canon is closed. Those who are not young (and this has nothing to do with age) want the puzzle to be complete and those who are young want to believe the puzzle is still sitting in the box waiting to be put together.

And others of us... just like playing tiddlywinks with the puzzle pieces because we know it bugs the heck out of the other folks. :-)


...I am speechless........ :)

[Malana]

Are you often speechless? Is that approval or disgust? Or is it.. dang... she talks way too much for a newbie. ;-)

[AtifSajid]

I have a brand new paint gun still in box if your interested..pm me..I'll sell it cheap..

[malfeas99]

Are you often speechless? Is that approval or disgust? Or is it.. dang... she talks way too much for a newbie. ;-)

We're going to get along famously.

Cheers.

Also, be careful with the grown-up diction, some of these chuckleheads will accuse you of flipping frenetically through a thesaurus in an attempt to artificially inflate your intellectual standing when they disagree with you but can't actually articulate their point of view.

They are, of course, clownpunching donkeyhumpers, but they will come. Just a heads-up. :D

[RandomGuy]

We're going to get along famously.

Cheers.

Also, be careful with the grown-up diction, some of these chuckleheads will accuse you of flipping frenetically through a thesaurus in an attempt to artificially inflate your intellectual standing when they disagree with you but can't actually articulate their point of view.

They are, of course, clownpunching donkeyhumpers, but they will come. Just a heads-up. :D
TRANSLATION: how nerds spit game.

[malfeas99]

TRANSLATION: how nerds spit game.

Or, you know.. how civilized, intelligent, well-read people talk.

Unfortunately, these days, that's been equated with 'nerds'.

Oh well. :tongue:

[Malana]

We're going to get along famously.

Cheers.

Also, be careful with the grown-up diction, some of these chuckleheads will accuse you of flipping frenetically through a thesaurus in an attempt to artificially inflate your intellectual standing when they disagree with you but can't actually articulate their point of view.

They are, of course, clownpunching donkeyhumpers, but they will come. Just a heads-up. :D

There you have it boys and girls, become well-read and you can dangle the mouse by its tail and it won't even know that you are batting it around with your paws.

Cheers to you too. Although it seems odd to be welcomed by malfeasance. I hope you aren't a CPA.

I really wanted to come up with an alliteration to match "flipping frenetically" but the brain just doesn't want to go there tonight even with the help of the online thesaurus. ;)