Liquid to air vs. air to air intercoolers

[carbon_crash]

I am currently in the process of changing my turbo setup. I am thinking about switching from a front mount air to air and going with a liquid to air. Is there any sort of advantage to a liquid to air?pros? Cons? Just looking for some feed back from people who have them or have had experience with them.

[CSquared]

I am currently in the process of changing my turbo setup. I am thinking about switching from a front mount air to air and going with a liquid to air. Is there any sort of advantage to a liquid to air?pros? Cons? Just looking for some feed back from people who have them or have had experience with them.

I've always been under the assumption that liquid-air was not only a pain in the ass to set up but also to maintain. I know the piping alone on air-air was the most annoying part of ny swap so I've got to imagine that's even more true when trying to stay water tight.

Also maybe weight consideration? Don't know what capacity would be but liquid is freaken heavy in quantity.

[carbon_crash]

I would think as long as the liquid to air core is water tight, then water leakage would be minimal. This is not going to be a daily car by no means. But I know where you are coming from about the pipping hassle lol. I had issues as well, but made it work in the end.

[EmminoDaGreat]

You get mimimal piping which helps spool, and cooler intake air temps w/ air to water. This is what I am using on my next setup, you just have to make sure to have a good pump to pump liquid, and also make sure how you do it will completely fill the chamber.

[B18c1Turboed]

I run air to water. The reason I did it was to keep my IAT down. Last dyno pull I made temp was 85ish I believe. I run the mezieres water w136s water pump. People have had great success with the Bosch pump also. But I wanted something I can run SS lines with.

[carbon_crash]

Thanks guys for the insight. I really appreciate it

[Bacon]

I was looking into an A > W > A setup as well using a PWR intercooler.

To the ones that have this setup, do the pumps pump water through a front mounted heat exchanger and then to the intercooler?

[B18c1Turboed]

Mine isn't street driven so no need for heat exchanger. If your goin to be driving it in the road I do suggest one.

[Bacon]

Thanks man. As for their efficiency, any better than FMIC or about the same?

[B18c1Turboed]

I think its about the same. But with a/w you keep IATs about the same all the time and that helps with your tune. Think of it like driving your car during the winter. Car runs better because you IAT are lower.

[Doppelgänger]

There are still variables to A/W setups, they won't always cool the intake charge better than A/A. You have to take into consideration the core size, size of the heat exchanger and airflow to said heat exchanger. Don't forget about the added weight and complexity of the lines and pump. BUT...and it's a big one....the benefit to a A/W is that you can fill the reservoir with much colder liquid (read: ice water) and get much cooler IATs, for short amounts of time...great for drag racing. I know with the older supercharger kits for Miatas, Jackson Racing had a nifty A/W cooler (since running A/A is a PITA in a Miata) and a lot of people used it because it was the only viable option for reducing the insane intake temps of the s/c. It was known that they would heatsoak very quickly and efficiency would drop off with extended hard driving. It still cooled to some degree, but not as good as a FMIC.

[B18c1Turboed]

I wonder why bugattis use a/w then?

[Doppelgänger]

I would think mostly because of packaging. Not to mention, I don't think it's too easy to compare a a/w system that has been designed as part of the car (airflow, cooling, packaging) vs. an add-on aftermarket setup.

[Bacon]

Well, the setup I have in mind will be using a Procharger kit for an H22 with an A/W intercooler.

EDIT: Procharger doesn't make a kit for the H22.....damn. :(

[knucklesson]

Coming from the mid engine car world I can chime in...if you can get good air to an A/A I'd go with it. Air to water is great. It just adds a few more failure points to a boosted motor (pump and hoses). Both of which could lead to catastrophic engine failure. An air to air failure (hoses-same as A/W btw) gives you no boost. To give you an idea, most of the big horsepower MR2 owners opt for a trunk mounted (that's right trunk!) air to air in lieu of the air to water. Keep it simple if you can. Haven said all that I have all the parts for a A/W system. Just need to figure out how to mount the heat exchanger.

[B18c1Turboed]

Use stainless steel lines and fittings and you have nothing to worry about. Use quality parts :) I mounted my pump to the water tank, so I only have 2 feet of hose

[Bacon]

Coming from the mid engine car world I can chime in...if you can get good air to an A/A I'd go with it. Air to water is great. It just adds a few more failure points to a boosted motor (pump and hoses). Both of which could lead to catastrophic engine failure. An air to air failure (hoses-same as A/W btw) gives you no boost. To give you an idea, most of the big horsepower MR2 owners opt for a trunk mounted (that's right trunk!) air to air in lieu of the air to water. Keep it simple if you can. Haven said all that I have all the parts for a A/W system. Just need to figure out how to mount the heat exchanger.

If failure occurs with a pump system, it's likely you would know before any catastrophic damage occurs. So, you blow a line out. What's the worse that could happen.....IATs drop? Get an IAT gauge to monitor that.

My question is could you possibly convert your P/S pump to pump water or "coolant" through the system? I doubt it because of bearings or something of the nature but was wondering that all day.

[B18c1Turboed]

Nope, but you can use a rule boat pump. Those are only like 40 or 50 for one that would pump enough water for 300-400 hp anything over that I would get a bigger pump.

[Bacon]

That's what I thought.

[SPOOLIN]

if the pump fails, it wont cause any real damage, you'll probably just start running richer with heat increase and the engine will just sputter.

I had Air to water, sold it and went back to A/A

I would consider air to water again in the future but if you look around, most guys that DO run it dont start running it until they are in the 9.2 sec or less range. Pretty much whatever the outside temp is, youll be within 5-10 degrees of that in the warm months.