350z with I/H/E?

[GirlieZ]

how much power to the ground will you add to the ground in general?

[Repost Squintz]

um... have you checked the z boards.... u might get a better answer from there, just trying to help.

[XBLG20]

Here are some truths about what we were talking about:

1. This car is pretty damn well balanced from the factory in terms of power, feel, handling. The Z is not about being the fastest. It never was. It is about a balanced, affordable, great looking sports car.

2. Nissan wanted the car to be within a certain budget, so obviously compromises needed to be made. Engine internals, etc.

3. FI will significantly increase your chance of engine failure. To do FI properly, you essentialy need to build an entirely new engine. To balance that power, you will need to practically build a whole new car.

4. NA mods are a poor value, but do change the subjective feel of the engine by altering the shape of the power and torque curves. There is a power gain, but it is small unless you want to start spending MAJOR $$$$, but then, basically, you are building a whole new engine....just like FI!!!!!!

5. Everyone will think that what they have done to their car is the best way to go so asking opinions on this will give you more information than you can make sense of.

To help you decide what to do, ask the following questions

1. How important is reliability. Are you the type that would get really frustrated or bummed out if something went wrong from time to time? If you are, forget FI.

2. How deep are your pockets? To build a GOOD, BALANCED, FI vehicle will cost you $35,000 on top of the price of the car....and it will still not have factory reliability

3. Is the stock Z really fast enough for you? If yes, some NA mods can definitely make the car more enjoyable just by changing the engine's character, if not really increasing performance by much (45+WHP). If you are looking for real performance increases, FI is the only way to go (nitrous excluded).

4. BMW's design philosophy is "build a great engine, then make it the weakest part of the car." A moderately powerful car with oustanding handling, steering, braking, shifting and grip will be much more enjoyable overall than a car with a monster motor that overpowers all the car's other
mechanical components.

All just food for thought. Getting back to your original point, NA mods will give you a different feel, but little real performance gain. Even 35-45hp will only take about 0.3sec of any of your times.

[XBLG20]

also with this being your daily i dont think FI would be the best thing for you ... but get a UR or KJR Lightweight Crank Pulley, and a JWT Lightweight flywheel and you will accelerate much better than these breathing mods will. Stuff like I/H/E don't really shine until you have everything setup and tuned (full breathing mods + cams + reflash or ECU). Without ECU adjustments to get more fuel for the increased potential airflow, you're wasting your money.

[tony]

I'm assuming you mean intake/headers/exhaust? I'm still a novice in some aspects but basic bolt ons wont yield big gains with the 350Z considering the engine is pretty much maxed out.

Intake could be installed yourself and expect between 3-8 wheel horsepower gain

Headers will be the most expensive to get installed (Around $300-$400) by far and yield 5-10whp depending on which brand.. some claim 20whp gains but uhm.. not many people can show a dyno to prove that. Nismo Headers cost around $1,000 and the cheapest I've seen are from Top Speed for around $300.

Exhaust .. I've seen 8 to 15hp gain. Nismo is really good and HKS is one of the best but one of the most expensive by far. Nismo exhaust is around $900 new and the HKS is $1400.

At one of our dyno days the guy that put down the best numbers naturally aspirated had the Injen CAI, Borla Exhaust, and Crawford Plenum, UR Pulleys and ECU Reflash.

Hope this helps

[XBLG20]

NA Z vs S/C Z http://sakred.nauticaltech.com/race_vids/z_vs_sc_z.wmv

[tony]

And basically what XBL said cause I didnt see his reply when I was typing mine. Bolt ons get old quick wit the Z, I will post up something I wrote up on the G35 boards about having a Turbo'd G vs N/A and the modifications I would rather have done N/A rather than going the Turbo route.


This coming from someone that has gone FI and hindsight is always 20/20. For those of you looking to begin modding, want big gains but without the headaches (and price tag) of a turbo kit.. these are the modifications I would go for and why. (This is on a 6mt Coupe by the way)

Tilton Street Clutch/Flywheel assembly - Believe it or not my car was just as fun with the Tilton as it is with the APS Twin Turbo.. if you can deal with the cement mixer noise (just get the idle bumped up to get rid of the noise) the revs were nothing less than beautiful.. and the gains were unbelievable. The dyno only showed 10hp but the fun factor felt like 30whp.. no joke.

3.9 Final Drive - Never had the chance to get this installed but from what I've read from other owners experience that it only enhances the Tilton assembly and it is another modification that may not show on the dyno but makes a big difference in performance..

Nismo Exhaust - Some people may not like how loud it is and if not then I say go with the fujitsu which is the same thing.. just quieter. I think the Nismo is just right as far as gains and aggressiveness goes, plus its lighter than stock so you just cannot go wrong.

High Flow Cats - I had Random Technologies but I do not recommend them, the gains were nice and they sounded great but they have a problem with collapsing, I hear crawfords high flow cats work nicely.

Injen Intake - I personally saw at a dyno day with 10-12 350Z and G35's, the ones with Injen Intakes consistently dyno'd higher than others with the Pop Charger, and Nismo intake.

Technosquare Reflash - Brings everything together and works nicely BUT... Utec will be releasing their product for G35's and 350Z's soon which will give you more options as far as tuning goes.

Everything else would be for ride/handling.. Nismo Sways or Hotchkis, Eibach Springs or if you have deep pockets Tein Flex coilovers and certainly a wider set of aftermarket wheels. Hope this helps some of the new guys out. later

[XBLG20]

Plus justine with the S/C you'll add a little over 100lbs. to the front of your car (taking away from the balance of the car) and you'll have to get that new hood

http://www.stillen.com/product_images/1035007C_f.jpg

http://www.stillen.com/product_images/407352IC_f.jpg

[XBLG20]

also there are a few single turbo and twin turbo setups for the car which of course will yield more power than N/A or going with a S/C

[XBLG20]

i know all you asked was ...

how much power to the ground will you add to the ground in general?
But what you really want to know is which way you should go ... N/A or F/I ... and honestly that will be up to you ... just be ready to drop some cash ;) If it were me balance and reliability would be my concerns. I'm not one to go to the drag strip so high HP, trap times and ET numbers don’t impress me at all … you know I like autox and spirited mtn driving :D so I would say N/A and put the rest in Brakes, suspension, drivtrain, wheels and tires (very important) :2cents:

[XBLG20]

HA i've whored up your thread!

[XBLG20]

To build a NISMO S-Tune Z you'll need to buy a NISMO cat-back exhaust, NISMO 18-inch forged wheels (i think the black ones would look hot) NISMO shift knob, NISMO floor mats, NISMO tuned shocks and springs, NISMO sway bar kit, NISMO front spoiler, NISMO rear spoiler, NISMO side sills and rear under spoiler. All the parts carry a 36-month/36,000 mile warranty and will set you back approximately $7,000.

Now if you want to be a PIMP and build a NISMO R-Tune Z you'll need NISMO headers, NISMO cold-air intake system, NISMO camshafts, NISMO clutch disc and disc cover, NISMO lightweight flywheel, NISMO high-performance LSD, NISMO power-steering oil cooler, and HP front and rear brake pads ... all this for like $6,000

now if you do all this i think NISMO will send you cool NISMO graphics!

I mean after you spend $13,000 i would hope they would

what it could look like...
http://carsmedia.ign.com/cars/image/article/605/605165/nismo-r-tune-350z-20050418022123564.jpg
drool

[XBLG20]

Well that’s enough from me .. Bottom line is don’t listen to Ryan and do the TT kit :2cents: unless you plan on spending a shit load of money to do it right and you like to drag race … the stillen kit you can do for $7,000 Installed with the upgraded pulleys and get about 80-100RWHP I think … but for the best in balance and over all feel I say go with the NA mods (35-45RWHP) and all that other stuff I said before, suspension, brakes, etc

[GirlieZ]

whore my thread you did daniel, lol i ve gooten over going FI, i just want to balance it out all around, and mikey can keep that kill. the z is slow and ill embrace that! Its just that we looked hot getting beat hehe

[XBLG20]

whore my thread you did daniel, lol i ve gooten over going FI, i just want to balance it out all around, and mikey can keep that kill. the z is slow and ill embrace that! Its just that we looked hot getting beat hehe

you'll only get beat on the highway where all you have to do is push in the gas ... remember they put steering wheels in these things for a reason ;) take him to the track or to the mtns and you wont have to worry about him at all

[GirlieZ]

i also forgot to upshift bc my ghey roommate dougwas trying to have a deep conversation on the sidekick, bitches lol

[Speedm0(\)key]

if you want more wheel power.. wethere its n/a or f/i get ready to spend some decent $$, unfortunately parts for the 350z have bmw/porsche part prices.

IMO, get a true dual exhaust. stay away from cold air intakes. get rid of the crappy stock plenum, i dont recommend spacers, only full replacements. slap some test pipes on. slap some headers on. call up technosquare get their reflash. and call it a day

check it out. intake,exhaust, UR pulley, Plenum and reflash ECU Z vs. a Turbo Back exhaust STi vs. a Stock Z.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=D896E7FE-D0B2-4F27-8937-7C8A80FFB5A5&term=350z%20&p=6

i'd say there is a difference. specially up top. he put a couple of cars on that stock 350z and still pulling

[GirlieZ]

nice vid

[tony]

if you want more wheel power.. wethere its n/a or f/i get ready to spend some decent $$, unfortunately parts for the 350z have bmw/porsche part prices.

IMO, get a true dual exhaust. stay away from cold air intakes. get rid of the crappy stock plenum, i dont recommend spacers, only full replacements. slap some test pipes on. slap some headers on. call up technosquare get their reflash. and call it a day

check it out. intake,exhaust, UR pulley, Plenum and reflash ECU Z vs. a Turbo Back exhaust STi vs. a Stock Z.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=D896E7FE-D0B2-4F27-8937-7C8A80FFB5A5&term=350z%20&p=6

i'd say there is a difference. specially up top. he put a couple of cars on that stock 350z and still pulling

the man knows what he is talking about :goodjob:

[tony]

After watching the video I realized that is Alberto's 350Z, he runs 13.1 1/4 mile times and is an DAMN good driver, stock for stock he'd blow the average driver away.

Will I'm actually getting an STi after I sell my G, since you have experience with both would a basic bolt on Z vs. an STi with TBE and EM be a good comparison?

[Speedm0(\)key]

After watching the video I realized that is Alberto's 350Z, he runs 13.1 1/4 mile times and is an DAMN good driver, stock for stock he'd blow the average driver away.

Will I'm actually getting an STi after I sell my G, since you have experience with both would a basic bolt on Z vs. an STi with TBE and EM be a good comparison?


well.. i dont know exactly how much the FMIC helped my STi... but say it didnt help much... it spanks my 350z like a redheaded step child. ran Josh's 431whp greddy TT 350z (dont know if you remember him) in the STi from a 40 kick, neck to neck till about 120 where he started pulling.. not bad for 301awhp.. STi is a good choice.

STi with TBE alone should give a stock to basic bolt on Z a very good run up top, anything less than 60mph would be cake for the STi

[Buford®]

Bottom line is don’t listen to Ryan and do the TT kit.

Thanks. I also realized this after we all had that in-depth conversation at your apartment that night. Especially since if you do the TT, the stock motor is a ticking bomb. One thing her car does have is TORQUE (one thing us Acura/Honda guys know nothing about) So doing NA mods will only up the torque, thus giving a little better balance. Then do suspension, brakes, tires, and eventually some wheels, and you'll be golden. Especially when Justine learns to drive the car to it's fullest extent.

[tony]

Hold up man I seriously have to say something, no offense to anyone here but it constantly amazes me how people with no real experience with the VQ engine has such strong opinions on how much horsepower it can take especially as it pertains to boost.

Show me ONE G35 or 350Z that blew their engine due to too much horsepower...

99.9999999% of the VQ engines that have blown with forced induction were due to
1. bad installation
2. bad tuning or
3. lack of components needed for boost

Plenty of Greddy kits were blowing on low boost 5-6psi making around 350whp while APS kits were running strong at 9-10psi making over 400whp. Its now been proven that the stock engine can hold as much as 550whp when tuned correctly so I don't understand how someone can come with such an opinion on the VQ's ability to hold boost while experienced owners are still testing the limits every day.

I'm not saying a boosted 350Z will run forever but I am speaking from my own experience and friends that have gone the same route I have, its a lot stronger than most speculate it to be.

[Buford®]

I was just going by word of mouf. Also by the fact that their internals aren't forged. I was also compairing to the 300ZX TT. The 300ZXTT was pretty much made to be a well balanced vehicle, that also has the ability to be a monster. The 350's main goal was an affordable daily driven street/track performer. I wasn't trying to offend you, Tony. Just going by what I've collected thus far.

[GirlieZ]

i love u buford, ur my z's lovechild ;)

[tony]

I was just going by word of mouf. Also by the fact that their internals aren't forged. I was also compairing to the 300ZX TT. The 300ZXTT was pretty much made to be a well balanced vehicle, that also has the ability to be a monster. The 350's main goal was an affordable daily driven street/track performer. I wasn't trying to offend you, Tony. Just going by what I've collected thus far.

Nah it wasn't directed at you, I know with a high compression ratio it doesn't seem like the 350Z was made for boost but when APS was doing research and development on the engine they just found certain things that led them to believe that Nissan might have left a lot of potential there. Trust me, this time last year 380whp was considered dangerous and now 450whp is considered safe. The pictures of the rods show how thin they are (I've seen them in person compared to forged rods, HUGE difference) but strangely the engine is strong.

I don't want to come off the wrong way at all, I wish I could explain my position on it but basically when you've invested a year of gaining knowledge on the subject on top of $10k plus its hard for me to let false information get thrown out there.

[Speedm0(\)key]

100% agree with you tony

you might have read some comments i've made here and there about the VQmotor, but yeah you are absolutely right. people tend to hate on the Z and G35 alot.. haha i dont know why, but yes you are right, VQ's arent breaking due to "TOO MUCH POWAH", its mostly shitty components and tuning... i've read so much about how the oil pan greddy provided in their kit wasnt big enough, keeps the engine running on insufficient oil, crank angle sensors shitty blah blah.. and it seems to be true. APS and other manufacturer kits that came out later (more recently) havent had as many problems. leaving Tuning as the only obstacle

sucks that there is no one known with the Rep for tuning the Z here in GA

anyways.. my comments were made i wont deny them, but i like to diss the shit out of my Z.. the more i bitch at it, the harder it tries to please me.

[Buford®]

I never hated on the Z, nor the G. After driving Justine's for a while, made me want to get one. I'm continplating getting one for my next car.

[XBLG20]

I really don’t understand what or if there's a disagreement here … from what I read everyone has really said the same thing just in different wording ... my information I learned from other boosted VQ owners but the only engines I have personal experance with is the SR and VG series

[tony]

100% agree with you tony

you might have read some comments i've made here and there about the VQmotor, but yeah you are absolutely right. people tend to hate on the Z and G35 alot.. haha i dont know why, but yes you are right, VQ's arent breaking due to "TOO MUCH POWAH", its mostly shitty components and tuning... i've read so much about how the oil pan greddy provided in their kit wasnt big enough, keeps the engine running on insufficient oil, crank angle sensors shitty blah blah.. and it seems to be true. APS and other manufacturer kits that came out later (more recently) havent had as many problems. leaving Tuning as the only obstacle

sucks that there is no one known with the Rep for tuning the Z here in GA

anyways.. my comments were made i wont deny them, but i like to diss the shit out of my Z.. the more i bitch at it, the harder it tries to please me.

Nah dont take what I typed personally, it wasnt directed at anyone. When I bought my turbo kit I had people that believed everything they read and swore to me if I pushed over 9psi or 380whp that I would blow my engine immediately. Personally if I was going to keep the car I'd get it tuned to 500whp just to prove a point.

[green_machine]

I think people are seriously mistaking the VQ for my motor, the QR. The QR has very little ability for handling boost. The VQ is a very reliable engine with a lot of room to "play". just do it right.

Yes, we have a lot of torque in Nissan's. That is why we don't own Hondas. That is why a s/c or turbo setup is a great addition to the performance of our cars. We have enough low end torque we don't need the additional boost from the line. It is better at the higher rpms of a centrifugal s/c or turbo.

Finally, i think all of you VQ fans would like to see this link. How about a NA Sentra that can pwn a 350z. Its revolutionary. Well not really, but kinda cool.

VQ35 Swap Pics (http://www.qr25de.net/viewtopic.php?t=3107)

[tony]

I couldnt see the pictures but I heard about that sentra, imagine if it was boosted.

[Speedm0(\)key]

oh yeah.. that sentra is sick.. it'd be one hell of a tight engine bay.. maybe you couldnt even turbo it.. , just think i/h/e testpipes, manifold replacement, bigger Throttlebody, cams, Technosquare flash.. in that light car.. that thing could run low 12s high 11's with some traction

[green_machine]

let me see if this pic shows up. there actually is a good bit of room still in the engine bay, you would kinda have to getto-rig a turbo, but it would be sick. good luck getting traction though. it still is fwd.

hmm, no pics yet, but just updates, here is a link for the run Travis made in the VQ Sentra. 12.9 seconds. hmm, maybe its time to start saving some money. :crazy:

click me biznitch (http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=122589)