GOP Debate

[BanginJimmy]

Just finished watching he GOP debate. While none of the projected front runners were there I think can can immediately throw out 3 of the projected runners. Santorum, Paulenty, and Johnson have no shot and will garner less than 10% of the vote in any primary they are in outside of their home state. Johnson is just not electable on a national scale whether you like his plans or not. Santorum is a theocrat and will turn away any and all atheist conservatives. Paulenty is just another politician who grates at my soul with his political banter. He said all the right things, none of them his own or genuine.


Ron Paul and Herman Cain definitely set themselves apart from the other 3. While I dont agree with many of the things Paul stands for, he comes off as genuine. That alone will garner some votes. I think his undoing will be his very liberaterian views on drugs and prostitution.

Herman Cain is my, somewhat biased, choice among those that debated tonight. His approaches are common sense problem solving. Identify the problem, research the problem, form solutions, see the solution through. Not a difficult process, but one that isnt used in DC very often.


Am I the only one that watched?


BTW, debate was sponsored by Fox News and the South Carolina GOP. Moderators were Juan Williams, Brett Baier, a blond chick I cant remember, and Chris Wallace.

[Vteckidd]

Didn't watch. No TRUMP no care

[ek forever]

I agree 100%, Ron Paul and cain are my top picks for the GOP. Pawlenty is just vague and typical politician. At least Paul and Cain stand out.

I've heard inklings that Cain refused to endorse the fairtax during some interview, I find that very hard to believe.

I agree the downfall of Paul will be some of the libertarian views upsetting religious conservatives. His goal to end the foreign wars and foreign aid might prove to be popular however.

[BanginJimmy]

Cain wasn't exactly misquoted but that's not the full truth. According to Cain, he knows that to get the fairtax in he will have to use incrementalism. Lay the groundwork in the first 2 years of his term then work on the fairtax in its entirity in his second 2 years.

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[Vteckidd]

None of them have a chance in hell in winning. Cain would be the only one I was interested in

[ek forever]

None of them have a chance in hell in winning. Cain would be the only one I was interested in

The field is pretty weak right now. Judging by the polling, if the election were tomorrow it would be really close between PresBo and Paul/Cain/etc. I would really like to see the FairTax implemented and the corporate tax removed. Business taxation is silly. Consumers pay for almost all business taxes as it is. It's just politically popular by whim of the masses to place taxes on businesses. The government makes 50-70 cents on each gallon of gasoline sold, most oil companies make 6-7 cents. Who's the evil profiteer?

So if I become good friends with you politically will you hook me up on an h2b header in a year or so? :P

I need $5,000 to fall out of the sky :( My target is to save that by next summer. H2b + ITR transmission.

[BanginJimmy]

None of them have a chance in hell in winning. Cain would be the only one I was interested in

Very early right now. Obama would easily win an election against any GOP candidate on name recognation alone.

Cain is turning a lot ofheads at the moment. If he can find a way to spin this mometeum into good fundraising he really does have a shot. I don't think any of the GOP frontrunners have a shot in 2012 unless the economy has no improvement at all and gas prices continue to rise.

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[ek forever]

Indeed. I think the only thing that will launch the president into success in 2012 is a lower unemployment number and gas prices back to where they were.

The economy is the #1 priority of the American people. If it's like it is now in 1 year, he's hosed for the election.

[bu villain]

I didn't see the debate but I've listen to Cain's radio show many times. I always found him to be overly simplistic in his ideals and often hostile towards other points of view. I am definitely a much bigger fan of Paul. I don't mind he has some more extreme ideas on certain issues (I agree with some of them but not others) because I know they would be kept in check by congress.

[Browning151]

Just finished watching he GOP debate. While none of the projected front runners were there I think can can immediately throw out 3 of the projected runners. Santorum, Paulenty, and Johnson have no shot and will garner less than 10% of the vote in any primary they are in outside of their home state. Johnson is just not electable on a national scale whether you like his plans or not. Santorum is a theocrat and will turn away any and all atheist conservatives. Paulenty is just another politician who grates at my soul with his political banter. He said all the right things, none of them his own or genuine.


Ron Paul and Herman Cain definitely set themselves apart from the other 3. While I dont agree with many of the things Paul stands for, he comes off as genuine. That alone will garner some votes. I think his undoing will be his very liberaterian views on drugs and prostitution.

Herman Cain is my, somewhat biased, choice among those that debated tonight. His approaches are common sense problem solving. Identify the problem, research the problem, form solutions, see the solution through. Not a difficult process, but one that isnt used in DC very often.


Am I the only one that watched?


BTW, debate was sponsored by Fox News and the South Carolina GOP. Moderators were Juan Williams, Brett Baier, a blond chick I cant remember, and Chris Wallace.

Just had a chance to watch it and I'd have to pretty much agree here. Johnson just doesn't really seem to have the appeal and personality to be elected on a national level, Santorum will likely not be able to gain the atheist/agnostic/etc. vote, and Pawlenty just seems to be a typical politician saying all the right things.

Paul and Cain are the only 2 out of those that have a chance, and even though Paul has a pretty good grassroots movement behind him I feel like he is still a little too radical for most Americans at this point. Cain gets my nod because of his realistic common sense approach and his strong business background. He comes across as genuine, someone who has real experience and can more closely relate to working class people. I like his statement about sending people to Washington who have previously held public office "How's that working for you?" I think a lot of people can associate with that kind of position. He is garnering a lot of attention right now because of last night and he may possibly have a chance to turn that into some real momentum as more people find out who he is, where he comes from and what his ideas are.

[ek forever]

Paul and Cain are the only 2 out of those that have a chance, and even though Paul has a pretty good grassroots movement behind him I feel like he is still a little too radical for most Americans at this point. Cain gets my nod because of his realistic common sense approach and his strong business background. He comes across as genuine, someone who has real experience and can more closely relate to working class people. I like his statement about sending people to Washington who have previously held public office "How's that working for you?" I think a lot of people can associate with that kind of position. He is garnering a lot of attention right now because of last night and he may possibly have a chance to turn that into some real momentum as more people find out who he is, where he comes from and what his ideas are.

I agree 100%.

That was a highlight of the evening when Cain said that.

[Echonova]

I didn't see the debate but I've listen to Cain's radio show many times. I always found him to be overly simplistic in his ideals and often hostile towards other points of view. I am definitely a much bigger fan of Paul. I don't mind he has some more extreme ideas on certain issues (I agree with some of them but not others) because I know they would be kept in check by congress.Holy shit!!! I was going to type almost the exact same thing...

[BanginJimmy]

Cain's approach is very simplistic, but thats what I like about him. He is hostile towards the politically correct point of view, thats another thing I like about him. Political correctness has really gotten out of hand around here and it is getting in the way of accomplishing even sometimes minute tasks.


Perfect example. Native Americans are upset right now because the operation to grab bin Laden was called operation Geronimo. They claim that associating Geronimo with bin Laden is offensive to them.

[Echonova]

I'm all for political incorrectness. There are too many people walking around today waiting to be offended so they can have something to bitch about.

Well, there is no law that says you can't be offended . In fact, some people need to be offended so they remove their cerebral cortex containment unit from their anal cavity.

All that being said, I like Cain. I like the fact he's for the Fair Tax. I would like to see him go in a head to head debate before I make any more judgements for or against him. See how well he handles an argument when he can't just cut the caller off and go on a diatribe.

[ahabion]

Herman Cain for me. Simple, common sense communicator who can let the common American understand his message.

Calling out the big pink elephant in the room, what I'm interested to see is how the black vote will be should Cain run against Pres. Obama. I think it's safe say that a large majority of black voters voted for Pres. Obama for the sheer fact that he was black. To see two black potentials duking it out will hopefully force voters to finally look beyond skin color and look more toward values and understanding the meaning of principles. This will hopefully bring much needed light to families as they look toward Herman Cain vs. Barack Obama... pending Cain enter his candidacy, slated on May 21st here in Atlanta.

[BanginJimmy]

Calling out the big pink elephant in the room, what I'm interested to see is how the black vote will be should Cain run against Pres. Obama. I think it's safe say that a large majority of black voters voted for Pres. Obama for the sheer fact that he was black. To see two black potentials duking it out will hopefully force voters to finally look beyond skin color and look more toward values and understanding the meaning of principles. This will hopefully bring much needed light to families as they look toward Herman Cain vs. Barack Obama... pending Cain enter his candidacy, slated on May 21st here in Atlanta.

I do t really agree that MOST black voters voted only on race but I do think a black candidate heavily increased black rolls.

The black vote is about 80% dem anyways becauss they are under the illusion that dens in office will make their lives easier/better. The only votes that I really see swinging back GOP are the black conservatives that voted based only on race. That number is inconsequential in the scheme of things.



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[bu villain]

Cain's approach is very simplistic, but thats what I like about him. He is hostile towards the politically correct point of view, thats another thing I like about him. Political correctness has really gotten out of hand around here and it is getting in the way of accomplishing even sometimes minute tasks.


Perfect example. Native Americans are upset right now because the operation to grab bin Laden was called operation Geronimo. They claim that associating Geronimo with bin Laden is offensive to them.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? What task did Native Americans being upset with an operation's name prevent from being accomplished? It didn't stop the operation from being carried out successfully in any way did it? How would have Cain's distate for political correctness helped anything in this situation?

[BanginJimmy]

Could you elaborate a bit on this? What task did Native Americans being upset with an operation's name prevent from being accomplished? It didn't stop the operation from being carried out successfully in any way did it? How would have Cain's distate for political correctness helped anything in this situation?


My example obviously shows how stupid the PC crowd is getting. In this case it really doesnt stop anything from happening, but it does point out just how far the PC crowd will go to find something to be offended by.

[Browning151]

Cain won GOP straw poll in Washington state friday:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/05/09/herman-cain-wins-gop-straw-poll/

I would like to see him continue to pick up momentum and really have a chance to get the nomination.

[ek forever]

He's making an official announcement soon I believe. Notably right after the success from the debate. I'd bet a 5 spot he's putting his name in the hat trying to carry this momentum from the debate.

[Total_Blender]

Cain had absolutely no opinion of Afghanistan. That translates to "I'll just do whatever is politically expedient". Which has been pretty much Obama's approach to Afghanistan as well.

None of the moderators or debaters discussed Social Security, Medicare, or the Paul Ryan plan. If you want to talk about "800lb Elephants in the room" that'd be the place to start.

Republicans are old and most of them depend on SS and Medicare. A voucher to buy privatized care with no cost reductions ain't gonna cut it. Thats pretty much throwing them to the wolves.

Trump's stock as a candidate just went down the toilet now that the Birther issue has been completely busted. What else does he have? His record as a businessman? His "hotel and real estate empire" is currently in chapter 13 for like the 3rd time. His reputation as a moral, socially conservative role model? He's twice divorced and had several very public sex scandals. And then theres the fact that he's previously been a supporter of Democrats. I really think he's in this race because he's an attention whore.

Speaking of attention whores, I think Newt Gingrich isn't really a contender either. He'll go on the campaign trail and do fundraisers, book signings, speeches, etc and rake in a ton of money. Then he will drop out of the race, funnel that money into one of his PACs and he can spend it as he pleases. "Candidate Newt" draws a lot of money and attention when it comes to book deals and public speaking. "Former Speaker Newt" doesn't draw shit. He'll drop out after New Hampshire or Michigan.

And thats the same deal with Palin. She's just in it for the money and the fame. And theres no money or fame in being a "currently unemployed former half-term governor".

Bachmann and Santorum won't make it past New Hampshire. The "Jesus Jihad" just won't fly there. Huckleberry will probably win Iowa, crap out everywhere else, but he'll put up a strong showing in the Deep South. He might finish midpack if he can keep the momentum and funding going enough to make it to Super Tuesday.

Ron Paul won't get the support of Corporate America, especially since the major players in GOP campaign finance are Big Pharma, Big Oil, and Agribusiness... all of which love their gov't subsidies. He's too radical for the independents, not socially conservative enough for the fundies. He'll run a grassroots campaign through the whole primary but he won't get above 10% in any state.

Johnson won't be able to raise the money. He's got charisma, but no name recognition right now. He won't fly with the fundies either. We haven't seen the last of him, but like Ron Paul he won't make it to any office higher than Congress.

Cain doesn't have name recognition and everything he says just seems to be "me too". He doesn't have anything original to say.

Pawlenty, Romney and Daniels are the "safe choices".

At this point the race is really between Pawlenty, Mitch Daniels, and Romney. And which ever one of them can be the most boring, not say anything racist, and make the least gaffes will be the winner.

[Vteckidd]

Cain had absolutely no opinion of Afghanistan. That translates to "I'll just do whatever is politically expedient". Which has been pretty much Obama's approach to Afghanistan as well.

None of the moderators or debaters discussed Social Security, Medicare, or the Paul Ryan plan. If you want to talk about "800lb Elephants in the room" that'd be the place to start.

Republicans are old and most of them depend on SS and Medicare. A voucher to buy privatized care with no cost reductions ain't gonna cut it. Thats pretty much throwing them to the wolves.

Trump's stock as a candidate just went down the toilet now that the Birther issue has been completely busted. What else does he have? His record as a businessman? His "hotel and real estate empire" is currently in chapter 13 for like the 3rd time. His reputation as a moral, socially conservative role model? He's twice divorced and had several very public sex scandals. And then theres the fact that he's previously been a supporter of Democrats. I really think he's in this race because he's an attention whore.

Speaking of attention whores, I think Newt Gingrich isn't really a contender either. He'll go on the campaign trail and do fundraisers, book signings, speeches, etc and rake in a ton of money. Then he will drop out of the race, funnel that money into one of his PACs and he can spend it as he pleases. "Candidate Newt" draws a lot of money and attention when it comes to book deals and public speaking. "Former Speaker Newt" doesn't draw shit. He'll drop out after New Hampshire or Michigan.

And thats the same deal with Palin. She's just in it for the money and the fame. And theres no money or fame in being a "currently unemployed former half-term governor".

Bachmann and Santorum won't make it past New Hampshire. The "Jesus Jihad" just won't fly there. Huckleberry will probably win Iowa, crap out everywhere else, but he'll put up a strong showing in the Deep South. He might finish midpack if he can keep the momentum and funding going enough to make it to Super Tuesday.

Ron Paul won't get the support of Corporate America, especially since the major players in GOP campaign finance are Big Pharma, Big Oil, and Agribusiness... all of which love their gov't subsidies. He's too radical for the independents, not socially conservative enough for the fundies. He'll run a grassroots campaign through the whole primary but he won't get above 10% in any state.

Johnson won't be able to raise the money. He's got charisma, but no name recognition right now. He won't fly with the fundies either. We haven't seen the last of him, but like Ron Paul he won't make it to any office higher than Congress.

Cain doesn't have name recognition and everything he says just seems to be "me too". He doesn't have anything original to say.

Pawlenty, Romney and Daniels are the "safe choices".

At this point the race is really between Pawlenty, Mitch Daniels, and Romney. And which ever one of them can be the most boring, not say anything racist, and make the least gaffes will be the winner.
and.....................

i agree with you haha

GOP candidates are boring. Newt cant win. He will poll well, hell get votes, but he wont win. hes too much the establishment.

The only reason why i said Trump was because Trump is NOT a politician, and regardless of anything i think its what America needs right now, is someone that is NOT part of the Machine. Of course Trump blew it with the comments he made in Vegas and other stuff.

[BanginJimmy]

Pawlenty has no chance because he is too much part of the establishment. In other words he is part of the problem.


Its funny to me how Cain is disregarded as not having answers because that's not what I heard. I heard him give a very general answer about Asscrackistan after prefacing that he didn't know enough about the tactical and stratigic environment there to answer with any intelligence. That seems smart to me.

Name recognition will be Cain's downfall unless he can really fundraise well for the next 8 months. He will need every dime to advertise and make people look into his record.

The other candidates aren't even worth talking about right now.

Romney was done the day he signed the health care takeover in Mass. Gingrich has too many skeletons. Palin was massacred by the press in the last election and is now damaged goods. Daniels is interesting, but at the same time he is more of the same when grouped in with Pawlenty, Gingrich, and Romney. An establishment GOP who is simply looking for the next rung on the political ladder. Johnson, Bachman, Paul, Huckabee will have their following but wont make it past Iowa, if they even make it that far.

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[ek forever]

You're totally misinterpreting Cain. He's absolutely right in what he said. The administration is privy to information a lot of us aren't. How can he make a real decision on a serious matter without knowing all the facts? This is what the guy is campaigning on.

Cain is NOT a demagogue like Obama is. There is the key difference. Obama only wants too appeal to the electorate and like most politicians, that's all they do. Cain is a doer. Not a talker.

[Total_Blender]

. Cain is a doer. Not a talker.

He's got a radio show on WSB and he's also a contributor on Fox Business network. He's as much of a talker, and an opinion-commentator as any of the other candidates in the field. :screwy:

[Vteckidd]

i think Cain is a smart guy, looks likes hes done good things. But hes not "it" IMO

[alpine_aw11]

I just wish Ron Paul could find some kind of balance to let him break into the spotlight. I'm young obviously but he's the only person I've ever seen run for president with a good combo of logical solutions and genuine sincerity.

[Echonova]

So... Huckabee isn't running for president. Trump won't run (in my opinion, it was just a publicity stunt), Rommey has no chance, neither does Newt. So far the only two "hopeful's" I like have no real chance at winning. Looks like another stellar year of plain vanilla candidates from the GOP... Is this really the best America can muster?


Congratulations Obama on your second term.

[BanginJimmy]

So... Huckabee isn't running for president. Trump won't run (in my opinion, it was just a publicity stunt), Rommey has no chance, neither does Newt. So far the only two "hopeful's" I like have no real chance at winning. Looks like another stellar year of plain vanilla candidates from the GOP... Is this really the best America can muster?


Congratulations Obama on your second term.

Kind of how I feel also. I like Cain a lot at this point, but he needs help to beat an incumbent. Everyone else looking to run is your typical politician and we all see through it.

[ek forever]

Kind of how I feel also. I like Cain a lot at this point, but he needs help to beat an incumbent. Everyone else looking to run is your typical politician and we all see through it.

Ron Paul/Herman Cain ticket.

Here's a word from Herman on the Afghanistan issue:


May 15th, 2011

Herman Cain

Ever since the South Carolina Republican presidential debate, reporters have continued to challenge me for not having a specific plan for our nation’s involvement in Afghanistan. They continue to think that if you are running for president then you must have an answer for everything. I don’t! A real leader has the right questions for everything.

When asked about what I would do about our involvement in the war in Afghanistan during the debate, I answered by asking the questions that should have been asked before we got involved many years ago. What is our mission? How does it serve our interest? Is there a path to victory? If not, then what is our exit strategy?

I ask these questions instead of “shooting from the lip” because there is obviously a lot of classified information to which I do not have access. There are dozens of experts and military leaders I would need advice from before I could make an informed decision about a real clear plan for the USA’s involvement in Afghanistan. Similarly, a real clear strategy for every country with which we have relationships would be developed, regardless of whether or not we are involved in a military conflict.

To be clear, I want to be out of Afghanistan and all war-torn countries as much as the next person. But I am not going to propose a half-baked plan based on half the information I would need to make the right decision, just to pretend I know everything.

On the other hand, I do know enough about our solid relationship with Israel from decades of observations that I would make it even stronger, which isn’t just about dollars. And, I would not be hesitant to let the rest of the world know that we will stand by and with our friends.

I succeeded in business for over 40 years by asking the right questions of the right people about the right problems to get to the right solutions. That’s what most successful people do, and I would do the same thing as president of the United States of America.



Aside from the fact that I disagree with many of President Obama’s policies, practices and decisions, consider some of the decisions and statements I’m sure he wishes he could do over. He promised to be out of Afghanistan by July 2011, date certain. It’s not going to happen. He wanted to close the Guantanamo military prison facility and put the prisoners, mostly terrorists, in our federal prisons. It didn’t happen.

He said passing the $787 billion stimulus bill (before extenders which pushed the total closer to $1 trillion) would get the unemployment rate back under 8 percent. The unemployment rate has not been under 8 percent since the stimulus bill was passed, and it was recently reported for April at 9.0 percent.

President Obama also said that a lot of the stimulus spending would go toward “shovel-ready” projects, only to admit later that there is no such thing as a shovel-ready project. Maybe he should have asked somebody, or maybe he thought we would not notice. We noticed!

As president, one may not make all the correct decisions, but you improve your success rate if you make decisions based on as much of the right information and advice as you can get. Maybe President Obama has just been getting bad advice. If so, he didn’t surround himself with the right people.

Working on the right problems, asking the right questions, surrounding oneself with the right people, and removing barriers to success is real leadership.

It’s much better than shooting from the lip.

[BanginJimmy]

And I agree with Cain completely in his statements.


Do I think Cain can win the nomination and presidency without some serious help and blunders from the other candidates and Obaam, no I dont. I do think he will be a very serious pain in the ass for whoever he is up against though. Whether that be Pawlenty, or Romney, or Gingrich.



Side notes:

Trump dropped out today, big surprise there. /sarcasm

Gingrich unofficially ended his run this past weekend with some seriously stupid statements.

[Vteckidd]

yup GOP will lose.

Trump you may not have agreed with, but im sorry you cant ignore the steam he was picking up. So now you have what Pawlenty? Cain? Gingrich.

Nope , no one is going to win from that field

[Echonova]

I like Cain, but he's got a lot of distance to cover in a short time.

And Bachmann (if she decides to run)... She's got more balls than 98% of the GOP combined. Love her or hate her, at least you know where she stands on the issues.


Neither can win IMO. The GOP will make sure of that. For some reason I have yet to fathom, Republican's like to eat their own in some effort to gain favor at Washington dinner parties.

[Browning151]

And I agree with Cain completely in his statements.


Do I think Cain can win the nomination and presidency without some serious help and blunders from the other candidates and Obaam, no I dont. I do think he will be a very serious pain in the ass for whoever he is up against though. Whether that be Pawlenty, or Romney, or Gingrich.



Side notes:

Trump dropped out today, big surprise there. /sarcasm

Gingrich unofficially ended his run this past weekend with some seriously stupid statements.

Completely agree.

Trump was nothing more than a publicity stunt from the beginning, Gingrich pretty much shot himself in the foot along with Romney and Huckabee isn't running it's looking pretty bleak for the GOP right now. I like Cain a lot and he's picking up some steam, but I'm skeptical that he can really pull off winning the nomination, although some of the current front runners seem to be making some sizable blunders for themselves already. I just hope that with some big names not looking so good that Palin doesn't jump in and try to run, there's no way the GOP will win with her at the top of a ticket.

[bu villain]

As of now I think Romney is the best hope for the GOP. The biggest problem everyone says he has is that he passed a form of universal health care in Massachussets. That may be a problem for the GOP primaries but its probably an advantage in a general election. In the end, I still think Obama will hang on.

[ek forever]

Indeed, gingrich shot himself in the foot last week. Nail in the coffin.

lol@10th amendment model for mandating health insurance.

Never heard such a contradictory statement in my life. A constitutionalists oppressive policy.

[Vteckidd]

Romney is dead in the water. He has flip flopped on more issues than Obama......well close. Hes mormon (which doesnt bother me at all) but the strong christian right that was behind huckabee i dont think will embrace a mormon. And romneycare , please. Thats a CENTRAL GOP issue they will never get behind a guy that is that soft on the issue.

Gingrich has a better chance than Romney. ANd i think Gingrich has good ideas, but hes another over 60 white male , something that screams ESTABLISHMENT.

Its the same old same old.

Its evident there is no young , exciting GOP candidate, its all old rehashed people

[Total_Blender]

Gingrich's "new ideas" are:

1.) Lower corporate taxes
2.) More domestic drilling
3.) Repeal "Obamacare"

How this is different from traditional Republican dogma, or the platforms of the other candidates, has yet to be revealed. There was a time when Newt did have good ideas... he worked across the aisle with Al Gore to develop the internet and he was a big supporter of the space program and other technology-related projects. One could interpret that as him being a rubber stamp for his corporate masters at Lockheed, but I think the man deserves some credit. It seems suspicious to me though, that Mr. "solutions for winning the future " is missing in action when it comes to alternative energy. I guess the oil companies are signing his checks now.

I think Gingrich is hoping to hang on long enough to get chosen as a VP candidate. I think thats where the real race is. The VP candidate doesn't face nearly as much heat or risk as much political capital as the POTUS candidate. Unless its somebody who is kryptonite like Palin or Bachmann.

[ek forever]

Here's a question. Where do corporations get the money with which they pay taxes?

(Hint: businesses don't pay taxes)

Here are the 5 largest oil suppliers to the U.S. as of 2007: Over half comes from the Western Hemisphere.

Canada (18.2%)
Mexico (11.4%)
Saudi Arabia (11.0%)
Venezuela (10.1%)
Nigeria (8.4%)


With all the alternative energy that's been promoted in the last decade, Solar makes up about .3% of the U.S. Energy supply, and Wind about .4%.

Wood is 1% of the U.S. energy supply. Alternative energy has a long way to go sir. The first step is becoming affordable. The minute a solar panel company will install solar panels on my house and a battery pack that runs the house at night and charge me less than $80/month in the winter then I'll be all over it. In the meantime, I'll take my ~$100/month electric bill. That's with gas heating/stove, electric water heater. My natural gas bill is about $30 a month.

When the government forces the market in a direction it creates a distortion, that distortion usually comes in the form of higher prices. Either for the consumer or the taxpayer who is ultimately the consumer anyway, it just varies who writes the check.

[BanginJimmy]

Gingrich's "new ideas" are:

1.) Lower corporate taxes
2.) More domestic drilling
3.) Repeal "Obamacare"

How this is different from traditional Republican dogma, or the platforms of the other candidates, has yet to be revealed. There was a time when Newt did have good ideas... he worked across the aisle with Al Gore to develop the internet and he was a big supporter of the space program and other technology-related projects. One could interpret that as him being a rubber stamp for his corporate masters at Lockheed, but I think the man deserves some credit. It seems suspicious to me though, that Mr. "solutions for winning the future " is missing in action when it comes to alternative energy. I guess the oil companies are signing his checks now.

I think Gingrich is hoping to hang on long enough to get chosen as a VP candidate. I think thats where the real race is. The VP candidate doesn't face nearly as much heat or risk as much political capital as the POTUS candidate. Unless its somebody who is kryptonite like Palin or Bachmann.

Gingrich is already done. He can forget about a possible VP nominational also.

Right now the GOP has only 2 viable candidates, Cain and Pawlenty.

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[ek forever]

Pawlenty has to settle the Cap and Trade thing too. He has an ad in which he favors cap and trade in his state. He's socially conservative enough to catch the rank and file however.

[BanginJimmy]

Pawlenty has to settle the Cap and Trade thing too. He has an ad in which he favors cap and trade in his state. He's socially conservative enough to catch the rank and file however.
Pawlenty can survive the cap and trade problems for the reason he gave. He signed off on a study of it that included economic consequences. If I remember correctly he was out of office when the study came back.


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[ek forever]

Pawlenty can survive the cap and trade problems for the reason he gave. He signed off on a study of it that included economic consequences. If I remember correctly he was out of office when the study came back.


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That's good to know he can get out of that.

I'm surprised you didn't mentioned what I'd said earlier:

Here's a question. Where do corporations get the money with which they pay taxes?

(Hint: businesses don't pay taxes)

When the government forces the market in a direction it creates a distortion, that distortion usually comes in the form of higher prices. Either for the consumer or the taxpayer who is ultimately the consumer anyway, it just varies who writes the check.

[Total_Blender]

Wood is 1% of the U.S. energy supply. Alternative energy has a long way to go sir. The first step is becoming affordable. The minute a solar panel company will install solar panels on my house and a battery pack that runs the house at night and charge me less than $80/month in the winter then I'll be all over it.

The idea behind alternative energy isn't to immediately replace other sources of energy, its to gradually reduce consumption and dependance on fossil fuels and use as much clean energy as possible. While you might not be able to meet ALL of your energy needs with a solar panel, you can certainly meet SOME of your energy needs, and cut down your consumption of coal thats mined from mountaintop removal, and the pollution that comes from burning it.

While solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, and hydroelectric power plants might be expensive... oil, coal, and ethanol are expensive too and receive massive Federal subsidies.

Say what you want about wood energy being 1% but at least its renewable and allows rural people to be self-sufficient. My grandpa used wood all his life. He cut down 2 or 3 trees on his property every year and his heat for the winter cost him nothing more than a couple days of labor every season cutting and splitting firewood. I think solar energy has the same principle going for it in that it allows one more (in some cases complete) independence from "the grid".

As I have said before, more domestic drilling isn't going to reduce gas prices because oil is a commodity sold on the world market at a price determined by OPEC. Oil drilled domestically would sell for the same price as foreign oil. And indeed most of the domestic production of oil is sold to other countries. The way to reduce gas prices is to build more refineries so that we can actually use more of our current domestic oil production. But with refineries theres always the "not in my backyard" factor...

[ek forever]

But oil sold domestically doesn't sell for the world price. I've got stock in a company in the three forks area selling oil for $60 a barrel. The oil is a average of the prices we get from all over the world.

[BanginJimmy]

No need for a new thread.


Monday night, GOP debate in new hampshire. This one will include all of the big shots. Even the one that is already unofficially done.