Have questions abut retainers..

[nelson9995]

If a head (gsr) is getting fully built with supertech springs and ferrea valves, cams, etc... can the stock oem retainers be reused? if not, are kms aluminum retainers good? whats the difference between titanium as far as reliability goes.

[*EFilliated*]

Oem retainers are not recommend with bigger cams

[RBS]

yes you can reuse the OEM retainers, but if your smart you would invest in aftermarket retainers. KMS i dont know about, and stainless steel vs titanium .. titanium is supposedly stronger and lighter.

[Bacon]

I wouldn't even look at the titanium retainers being lightweight more so than their strength. Invest in aftermarket retainers.

[Black4DrEK]

Aftermarket retainers is what I would get.

I used KMS. I took it to 9,400 rpm every day.

I dont know if was the Springs or the Retainers, but my Valves floated one time in cylinder #1. Thats what caused my engine to fail.

I didnt drop valves.. The valves floated, then shattered. The valves stems and all were still in the keepers tho.. The other half looked like Hershey's kisses. HAHA...


Maybe it was the Springs.. Thats my thought

[Sneezin]

yes you can use oem, but if its fully built why use them? spend the money and buy some good aftermarket ones.

steel is the strongest but the heaviest, aluminum is lighter but half the strength of steel, titanium is light but stronger than aluminum.

and as for as reliability, just depends on how you treat the motor, if you beat on it all day long or just every now and then.

[allmotor-teg]

yes you can use oem, but if its fully built why use them? spend the money and buy some good aftermarket ones.

steel is the strongest but the heaviest, aluminum is lighter but half the strength of steel, titanium is light but stronger than aluminum.

and as for as reliability, just depends on how you treat the motor, if you beat on it all day long or just every now and then.


he def needs aftermarket, he beats on his car everyday all the time.

[*EFilliated*]

lol damn that sux, dont try to out rev people if u dont have the valve train to support it


Aftermarket retainers is what I would get.

I used KMS. I took it to 9,400 rpm every day.

I dont know if was the Springs or the Retainers, but my Valves floated one time in cylinder #1. Thats what caused my engine to fail.

I didnt drop valves.. The valves floated, then shattered. The valves stems and all were still in the keepers tho.. The other half looked like Hershey's kisses. HAHA...


Maybe it was the Springs.. Thats my thought

[Black4DrEK]

lol damn that sux, dont try to out rev people if u dont have the valve train to support it


Ehh I wasnt trying to "out rev" anybody... I wasnt Racing anybody.. I was on my way to the store.

[h22 jones]

We cut our valve reliefs so that even in vtec we can spin our motor over with no piston to valve contact. Also we dont reev our motors to 9,500 rpms either. I used to think it was cool to see the rpms go that high but no need if you dont make power that high. I have read alot of different things to prove there is no need in reeving that high but i want get into to all that. if you dont have a bad ass motor built to make power that high then you are doing nothing but putting uneeded stress on your motor . In a stock h22 i would lose time in the quarter if i changed gears past 7,800 rpms. Now that has alot to do with gearing also which is why mike (vtec kidd) reeved so high. It wasnt because thats were he made his power it was because his gearing allowed him to (4.7 final drive). Im not getting into explaining all that either.

Im not running stock type s valve train because i cant afford the good shit hell i got tones of that stuff laying around the shop. For you guys that ask will this spring work with this cams look out side the box. Its not will it work , its how well it will work. What you want is the spring with the lightest spring pressure that will still keep your valves from floating. Ive seen tones of people use super tech and yea they work fine but have you ever wondered how much power there costing you ? As soon as i try to spin a motor over by hand i can tell if it has super tech springs in it hell you cant hardly spin the damn thing there so stiff. We run type s shit because it gets the job done with out so much spring pressure that it cost you power. If you drive your car like you have some since odds are you can get away with alot of shit that people that dont take care of there car can get away with . Simple fact is that if you miss shift your tires are going to float your valves and destroy your motor no matter what springs are in there. Figure out were you want to shift at and go from there . We are actualy fixing to test a bunch of springs just to see how much difference in spring tension there is . If you like reeving to 9,500 for no reason then by all means buy the nicest shit you can and odds are your still going to blow your shit up. To much spring tension also kills the life of the cam and results in wipping a lobe. After 5 years of running these cams they still look brand new not even the coating is wore off.

As for the retainers we are still running stock ones . Our valve train is realy light and we couldnt tell enough on the dyno to make it worth spending the money. Just make sure all your clearences are good and read up on what cams your using to see what kind of trouble anybody else has had with them. Other then that good luck. I just dont want you to think that aftermarket springs and retainers is going to save your motor if you shift from third to second at 100 mph (miss shift) because its not lol.

[nelson9995]

Ehh I wasnt trying to "out rev" anybody... I wasnt Racing anybody.. I was on my way to the store.
lol... dang bro


We cut our valve reliefs so that even in vtec we can spin our motor over with no piston to valve contact. Also we dont reev our motors to 9,500 rpms either. I used to think it was cool to see the rpms go that high but no need if you dont make power that high. I have read alot of different things to prove there is no need in reeving that high but i want get into to all that. if you dont have a bad ass motor built to make power that high then you are doing nothing but putting uneeded stress on your motor . In a stock h22 i would lose time in the quarter if i changed gears past 7,800 rpms. Now that has alot to do with gearing also which is why mike (vtec kidd) reeved so high. It wasnt because thats were he made his power it was because his gearing allowed him to (4.7 final drive). Im not getting into explaining all that either.

Im not running stock type s valve train because i cant afford the good shit hell i got tones of that stuff laying around the shop. For you guys that ask will this spring work with this cams look out side the box. Its not will it work , its how well it will work. What you want is the spring with the lightest spring pressure that will still keep your valves from floating. Ive seen tones of people use super tech and yea they work fine but have you ever wondered how much power there costing you ? As soon as i try to spin a motor over by hand i can tell if it has super tech springs in it hell you cant hardly spin the damn thing there so stiff. We run type s shit because it gets the job done with out so much spring pressure that it cost you power. If you drive your car like you have some since odds are you can get away with alot of shit that people that dont take care of there car can get away with . Simple fact is that if you miss shift your tires are going to float your valves and destroy your motor no matter what springs are in there. Figure out were you want to shift at and go from there . We are actualy fixing to test a bunch of springs just to see how much difference in spring tension there is . If you like reeving to 9,500 for no reason then by all means buy the nicest shit you can and odds are your still going to blow your shit up. To much spring tension also kills the life of the cam and results in wipping a lobe. After 5 years of running these cams they still look brand new not even the coating is wore off.

As for the retainers we are still running stock ones . Our valve train is realy light and we couldnt tell enough on the dyno to make it worth spending the money. Just make sure all your clearences are good and read up on what cams your using to see what kind of trouble anybody else has had with them. Other then that good luck. I just dont want you to think that aftermarket springs and retainers is going to save your motor if you shift from third to second at 100 mph (miss shift) because its not lol.

I just plan on revving to 9k... whereever my cams hold strong to. if its 5600 then its 5600. I just want to have a good valvetrain in there. What valves, springs, and retainers do you recommend... I don't have $800 for valvetrain either lol. I am running buddy club spec IV's BTW.

[h22 jones]

im not sure i would have to do some research on the cams and see what i come up with . Ill see what i can find tonight. im not bad mouthing super tech springs hell i know alot of people that run them there just realy stiff.

[h22 jones]

Coil bind is a issue also. If the lobes on the cam are to big and bottom the springs out it will wiped a lobe off the cam. Most of the time when skunk 2 ( or another cam manufacture ) builds a cam they also build a spring to go with the cam and that is the best route to go. If you are trying to go cheap then you need to do alot of research simple as that.

[Black4DrEK]

Yea Type S Valve train is heard good for the H series.. But when it comes to B series. I would Get After market. Most B series heads dont even come with Dual Springs on each side. Also Most mild B series Setups make power to atleast 9K ( the ones I've seen ) You right about gearing.. That plays a big part in a setup. Question.. Talk about Valve Float. You would say, the Spring is the main cause, correct?

[Black4DrEK]

Yea coil bind is'nt pretty. Finding Coils of springs in the bottom of a Oil pan...lol

[nelson9995]

okay then are these good
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310157958756&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_499wt_957

or what about these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360348700525&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_4149wt_1162

and for retainers, are supertech ti retainers good enough? and ferrea valves? if so I think I found my valve train... or is supertech everything good also.

[Black4DrEK]

Try out the Buddy Clubs.. You do have the Buddy Club Cams...

Make sure the ones you order, you get quantity of 2. because that was only for one side.

[h22 jones]

honestly i would say more people tear motors up floating valves by miss shifting not because of the springs. Normaly when you float a valve the motor want reeve past that rpm because the valve dont close. It normaly doesnt stay open far enough to hit the piston just enough to cause the motor to not reeve past a certain point. Most of the people that think they dropped a valve because of floating them either snapped the head off the valve or had another malfunction . After the fact its hard to go through motor and tell what happened first lol. I have actually had people bring me motors that wouldnt reeve past 7,000 rpms and it be because they had the valve lash set to tight and the valves were floating but it didnt hurt the motor . If your motor was reeving to 9,500 every day with no problems odds are you didnt float a valve . If you did why didnt it happen any other day ? It puts a real beating on a motor reeving to 9,500 rpms so anything could have happened but probably not floating a valve unless you miss shifted. Unless its got the shit built out of it k series is the only motor that seem to by pretty reliable at them rpms and i think thats because of the timing gears instead of timing belts (just my opinion) either way its ruff on any motor . I prefer to build a big motor turn it low rpms and drive it for three years :)

[h22 jones]

About three years ago when we first put this motor the hatch i was racing at siiver dollar and the car cut off at 104 mph going through the quarter . I didnt miss shift or hear a noise it just shut down. I roled off the track then tried to crank it with no luck . As soon as we got it to the shop i pulled the timing covers and the timing belt was broke ( brand new honda belt). Checked and had no compression so we pulled the head off and all the valves looked like spaghetti lol. Well none of the valves were broke they were all just bent and yes some hit the piston but the main ones that were bent were where they caght each other . In other words the intake and exhaust valves were open at the same time and locked each other together. I have missed a gear before and bounced off of the 8,500 rev limit no problems . I had never miss shifted but i didnt in this case either. I could have assumed i floated a valve but i think i just got a bad timing belt since i been running the same cams and springs for the last three years . My point is i think in alot of cases when people think a floated valve destroyed there engine that it was more likely something else.
We fixed the head put it back on turned the motor and heard a clunk . When the valves hit the pistons and stopped the motor from turning but the tires were still rolling at 104 mph it put so much force on the crank that it broke it in the center of the number four main journal. It didnt hurt the bearing or the block just broke the crank right in the center of that journal lol. Alot of people say the h23 crank is weak well that is a tone of force so im not suprised it broke and i wonder how many peoples motor came apart for other reasons that was blamed on a weak h23 crank lol. I know that the crank didnt cause my problem but if i didnt know beter i would be like well everybody says the h23 crank is weak must have been the crank lol. We changed the bearings of course even though they looked fine and installed another crank. It has been running fine every since just a bad oem timing belt . i will say that is alot of stress on the rods but were running crower rods and they are still perfect

[Black4DrEK]

In my case. Belt didnt break, or skip a tooth. I didnt miss shift either.

[integra82786]

I'm always a fan of matching cams and springs and retainers. BuddyClub probably makes their springs and retainers specificly for the lobe profiles on their cams. I'm finding BuddyClub valvetrains on google shopping and ebay for around $200. Hope that helps.

[nelson9995]

Thanks guys for all your help and H22 Jones thanks for all your input I really appreciate it. I thought about what you said about how stiff the supertech are and it may rob some power. I thought about my budget and realized I need reliability more than power since I don't make enough money lol so I just went ahead and bought the supertech valvesprings and retainers... Next I will buy the Ferrea valves and supertech valve guides. As long as it's reliable and withstands 9000 RPM pulls on a daily basis it is all I'm really looking for. Thank you for your input I had to balance power and reliability and money and money and reliability is what I need. Thank you...

[nelson9995]

I realized that I really didn't have the extra money for buddy clubs even though ideally I would have loved a Buddy Club head... I have been trying to do this build for the past year and I am finally getting close to being done and I just want this to be reliable and get to 200whp and be done asap. I am tired of waiting lol... Installing lojack put me behind about 3 months lol (had to save for it).

[h22 jones]

I don't think it's going to rob that much but in the all motor world five hp is alot. Either way I'm sure you will be happy with your build as long as it is done right.

[integra82786]

I've been doing the same thing you are for the last couple of years. I finally got my ls/vtec build together and sent it to Mainstream. Can't wait to get it back soon. It's all about patience and planning. It does take a lot to make 200hp all motor. I have a crower stage 2 head ported and polished, pr3 pistons, skunk2 mani, 70mm throttle body, apexi exhaust and smsp long tube headers. Mainstream said I might make 200 if I'm lucky. I'm just happy to have done what I did to it. I'm not saying it will take you years to build what you want, it's all up to you. As long as you do your research on parts and other people's experiences you can reach your hp goals. As soon as I get my dyno sheet from Mainstream I will post it to give you an idea of what 200 horses will take. Good luck with the build.

[nelson9995]

dang bro. inspirational. post ur dyno sheet ASAP... I'm guessing 205 btw lol

[Starrfire]

Aftermarket retainers is what I would get.

I used KMS. I took it to 9,400 rpm every day.

I dont know if was the Springs or the Retainers, but my Valves floated one time in cylinder #1. Thats what caused my engine to fail.

I didnt drop valves.. The valves floated, then shattered. The valves stems and all were still in the keepers tho.. The other half looked like Hershey's kisses. HAHA...


Maybe it was the Springs.. Thats my thought

Says the person who now currently owns those..."OH SHIT"... lol. I've used supertech for years BUT I've never even taken mine to 9k and I've got thousands and thousands of miles on mine. I guess it's just the massive abuse. But If that's the case I've still got tuner series and Pro series ones laying around If I don't use them.

[nelson9995]

Says the person who now currently owns those..."OH SHIT"... lol. I've used supertech for years BUT I've never even taken mine to 9k and I've got thousands and thousands of miles on mine. I guess it's just the massive abuse. But If that's the case I've still got tuner series and Pro series ones laying around If I don't use them.

hmmm. is it okay to use stock valves?

[h22 jones]

Thats all i have ever run . When my timing belt broke at 104 mph and bent all the valves not one broke and destroyed my motor so im pretty impressed with stock valves. H22 that is.

[nelson9995]

Thats all i have ever run . When my timing belt broke at 104 mph and bent all the valves not one broke and destroyed my motor so im pretty impressed with stock valves. H22 that is.
shit. stock valves it is. YES! I get to save $200 lol

[EssexCounty]

What do you think are some good cams for types valvetrain (h22 that is)

[h22 jones]

tuner 2 or pro1 or pro 2 any of them three would be great man . I prefer skunk and havnt realy run anything else but pro 2 are pretty aggresive and if they hold pro2 (which they do) im sure they would be good for just about any cam . If your running pro 3 or stage 3 or something of that caliper im sure you have enough since to check alot of shit and buy the springs that go with them cams .

[EssexCounty]

I know this thread is mainly about the head but I figured I'd ask anyways. I've read a thread that its possible to get 11:1 compression w/ stock pistons. What are some things we should be weary of when putting together the block of an h-series motor.