Swedish cars

[40th GT]

Would you ever drive a Saab or Volvo as a DD? My friend is in the market for a car that costs less than $2500 to buy and I suggested those 2 brands. More specifically the Volvo 850 and the Saab 900.
How are they in terms of reliability and ease of repair? The cars in question are in the 150k-180k mile range due to the budget limit.
Her main concern is that parts will be expensive just because it's European. Is there any truth to this?
If so, I'm open to suggestions.

[2turbo4u]

My volvo got 260k on it(850r) and it was my dd before I brought my truck. I only gave me trouble once when the fuel pump died. She still starts on one and drive on two and on three she make me :D

[cjhutch]

I drive an 04 Saab 9-3 as my daily driver. It's a good car and I haven't had any major issues with it. My car is part of the GM base which shares the engine with the Cobalt SS in the Ecotec platform. Parts are not that expensive and I haven't had to do anything more than scheduled maintenance. If she is looking for a Saab in that price range it would definitely be a old gen 9-3 or what Saab enthusiast call the GM 900. I would not buy a Saab with more than 150k miles unless it was owned by an enthusiast and has some kind of service records. The turbos last a long time, but the direct ignition cassettes are usually shot around 100k miles and unless it's replaced you're looking at a couple of hundred dollars for a new one. If I were you I would checkout saabcentral and saablink for more information.

[alpine_aw11]

90s Volvos are one of the best values on the market imo. I would love to have an older 940, they're so cheap for what you get.

[40th GT]

I drive an 04 Saab 9-3 as my daily driver. It's a good car and I haven't had any major issues with it. My car is part of the GM base which shares the engine with the Cobalt SS in the Ecotec platform. Parts are not that expensive and I haven't had to do anything more than scheduled maintenance. If she is looking for a Saab in that price range it would definitely be a old gen 9-3 or what Saab enthusiast call the GM 900. I would not buy a Saab with more than 150k miles unless it was owned by an enthusiast and has some kind of service records. The turbos last a long time, but the direct ignition cassettes are usually shot around 100k miles and unless it's replaced you're looking at a couple of hundred dollars for a new one. If I were you I would checkout saabcentral and saablink for more information.

Yeah the ones I've been looking at are in the 140k - 160k mile range and the 9-3s may be out of her budget. I did however find some 2.3L 900s with ease. Are those engines from GM as well?

[thegreatfnr]

I miss my 9-3 It was a great daily. It looked good, was quick, got good gas mileage and had tons of room. Hell I fit a full size bike in the back with both wheels still on.

As far as cost goes, yes it is more expensive to fix/maintain than a japanese brand

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/thegreatfnr/sig.jpg

[superboost]

I've had both the rwd 2/7/9 series and the fwd 8 series. I've owned both wagons and sedans. The 2/7/9 series are probably the slightly better DD, but are a bit down market. They don't ride as nice, they don't feel as nice, handle as well, or are as quick as the 8/V/S series volvos, but what you do get is almost unfathomable resiliency. That being said, I have an 855 wagon as my DD, a turbo wagon as the occaisional weekend/ long distance car and a rwd 940 as my fall back. The 850s have their issues, but they're pretty reliable.

Think of it as a much, much nicer camry. Also, the turbo models have a bit of pep and can cheaply/easily be modified to be a nice, reliable sleeper.

[fivex684]

I've been daily driving my 850R for over 3 years and the only thing I've had to do is the alternator and the oil cooler lines. It's getting about the time to do the timing belt. Other than that it's been all mod's, which weren't necessary.

[VooDooXII]

I miss my 9-3 It was a great daily. It looked good, was quick, got good gas mileage and had tons of room. Hell I fit a full size bike in the back with both wheels still on.

As far as cost goes, yes it is more expensive to fix/maintain than a japanese brand

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/thegreatfnr/sig.jpg

Pretty much nailed it. Keep an eye out and you'll notice quite a few ancient SAABs and Volvos running around. They're pretty solid.

Oh hey Lee, I see your car all the time round Pleasant Hill/Peachtree Industrial. Hah, small world.

[redciv1]

Very interesting thread. Kinda in the same boat money wise and have always been a Volvo wagon fan from back in the day when Volvo had a commerical that pitted a Countach 5000s against a 7 series wagon. Love the look of the 850 wagon but like the idea of rwd with 7 and 9 series. Good Thread on Saab as well. Anything specifically to look out for in the 850 series.

[fivex684]

Mainly the PVC system, if it hasn't been changed it wreak havoc on gaskets and seals, the RMS on these cars is a biotch. Also oil-cooler lines, inter-cooler hoses and vacuum lines.

[redciv1]

thanks.

[Genji-Sama]

I've driven a few volvos before, an they seem really safe and by safe I mean like miniature tanks, but that's in comparison to my car. However the ride quality was very nice and it still had a little "get up and go".

[superboost]

I"ll add the heater core and transmission.

Heater core, if not flushed every few years, can and will fail. They're not too difficult to swap, but a broken heater core sucks.

Also, the transmission is somewhat a biggie. They're not weak by any means, but if the previous owner neglected it, they can be problematic. If serviced regularly, they can easily stand up to roughly around 300whp.

[redciv1]

So what I have noticed in my research is that the 850 wagon Turbo, never came in a 5spd manual, only automatic. And if I want a manual tranny it will have to be a non turbo model. However the V-series came with a manual for the base as well as turbo model. I really want a wagon and really want the 5spd and turbo, but noticed not too many manual Volvo's around.

[boosted_nonv]

volvos ftw

[redciv1]

I hear ya boosted. Just signed up for Turbobrick.com also. Volvo wagon is where it might be headed.

[nevertolow]

go volvo. you can go to pull a part and find anything you need for them for no more than 50 bucks. and you get a warranty.you can get the 2.3 4 cyl ford motor and some parts are interchangeable. like turbo manifolds and all that good stuff

[redciv1]

^^^Thanks. Really hard tryng to find a manual unless S/V series. Really looking for a 850 Turbo wagon. I could always do a manual conversion worst case scenario

[redciv1]

LOL, change of plans. Maybe able to get a 99 SAAB 9-3 5dr hatch. Really clean inside and out. Base model...to be continued.

[thegreatfnr]

LOL, change of plans. Maybe able to get a 99 SAAB 9-3 5dr hatch. Really clean inside and out. Base model...to be continued.

If you plan on buying and modding an NG900/OG9-3 1999 was the best year as it has all the updated parts that switched from the NG900 to the OG9-3 but still retains Trionic 5 engine management as opposed to the newer Trionic 7. T5 is much easier to tune and also allows for a cheap MBC where as with T7 you will have a much harder time tuning if doing it yourself or end up spending big bucks on a mailbox tune also an MBC only wont work with T7.

If you end up getting the saab make sure you check out www.saabcentral.com and www.saablink.net

[redciv1]

If you plan on buying and modding an NG900/OG9-3 1999 was the best year as it has all the updated parts that switched from the NG900 to the OG9-3 but still retains Trionic 5 engine management as opposed to the newer Trionic 7. T5 is much easier to tune and also allows for a cheap MBC where as with T7 you will have a much harder time tuning if doing it yourself or end up spending big bucks on a mailbox tune also an MBC only wont work with T7.

If you end up getting the saab make sure you check out www.saabcentral.com and www.saablink.net

Thanks for the info. I looked on saabcentral and could not find info on removing installing an engine. Need to check saablink. Any other info?

[thegreatfnr]

Thanks for the info. I looked on saabcentral and could not find info on removing installing an engine. Need to check saablink. Any other info?
Why do you want to remove the engine, is it blown?

Here is another great site with tons of DIYs w/pics, including engine removal/installation -> http://photo.platonoff.com/Auto/

[redciv1]

looks like they blew a head gasket, hence cheap price. Very low miles also.

[thegreatfnr]

looks like they blew a head gasket, hence cheap price. Very low miles also.


Gotcha. Another known issue that you want to look out for is sludge. These motors are very prone to that so you will wanna drop the pan to inspect before pulling the trigger. I personally wouldn't jump into one of these cars that had known motor problems due to the fact that the car is so cheap to begin with now. I only got $2500 for my 02 9-3, granted that was on a trade in but I have seen many nice examples of these sell for less than 2Gs.

Although if you do go for the one with a blown motor you could always swap in the bigger/badder 2.3L B234R motor out a 9000 Areo, slap on a holeset and run mid 11s :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCaFkRknbSw

[redciv1]

Good info. I am in the process of finding another engine. From what I read Saab recommended 10K between oil changes using semi synthetic oil. It's a turbo so I'm thinking 3k-5k on synthetic oil.

[fivex684]

If your still interested in a manual S/V check out the for sale section on Volvospeed.com. Volvospeed is for the FWD drive crowd Turbobricks is more RWD.

[redciv1]

thanks fivex. I found, well a 99 9-3 found me gspd and manual. Sourcing engine now.

[redciv1]

Change of plans. Going to get the Head Gasket repaired.

[EastsideR]

Correction. If taken care of, the Autmatic is good to up to 450whp. You wll want an automatic trans cooler, but that is super cheap(less than $150). Your only problems lie in the head gasket($1500 repair minimum). If the car has overheated dont get it. The head gasket repair is probably the most major thing that could be wrong with the car. It is better to go on eBay and buy a new engine than it is to repair the head gasket unless there were a ton of mods done to the engine. Just make sure you keep coolant in the tank, and make sure you change the timing belt accordingly, and you wont have any problems out of the car. PCV is an easy fix, and you should not worry about it. Keep the timing belt in good condition, and always keep coolant in the resevioir, and you have nothing to worry about other than change oil, brakes, and suspension parts as they wear over time.

[EastsideR]

All you need to do is find an 850 NA wagon for a good price (preferably with a blown engine). Go on ebay and search for volvo motor or volvo engine or 850 engine/motor. You should be able to find a nice turbo motor for as cheap as $300- $1200. You will see a whole lot in between and some over the $1200 mark. You should look in the $400-$600 range. There should be a lot of engines in that price range. Dont worry about mileage, Volvo engines are built for high mileage, and are just getting started at 100,000 miles. I have well over 350,000 miles on my 850. Once you find your engine, order it, and drop it in the car. You can get the ecu from later model 850s to put in and run the turbo engine. If you find an 850R ECU it will boost the normal turbo engine up to the 850R turbo engines specs(250whp). This is your best bet. Doing a manual swap is overkill. Better and cheaper to just get the Naturally Aspirated versiuon and do an engine swap. Also, you can put later model engines in there i.e(s70,V70,s60) You are looking for the B5234,B5244,B5254 engines that end with a T(B5234T). The 2 best engines are the (B5234T - Early model R cars and T-5 cars) and the (B5254T - Late model R cars.)